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Kchrpm
December 22nd, 2014, 06:23 AM
The Cadillac ATS-V coupe and sedan have already been out there:

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--QMokUSVo--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/rwngf3wsu34luubidpwo.jpg

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/14q4/638371/2016-cadillac-ats-v-coupe-and-sedan-photos-and-info-news-car-and-driver-photo-647084-s-original.jpg

And today, the CTS-V is revealed, to be shown in the metal for the first time at the Detroit Auto Show:
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/12/22/2016-cadillac-cts-v-official-photos-detroit-auto-show/

http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/321/831/2/S3218312/slug/l/001-2016-cadillac-cts-v-1.jpg

Phil_SS
December 22nd, 2014, 06:49 AM
That's hot!

novicius
December 22nd, 2014, 07:40 AM
Looks good in silver! :up:

pl8ster
December 22nd, 2014, 08:40 AM
I love it. Looks fantastic.

thesameguy
December 22nd, 2014, 08:42 AM
Cadillac just keeps knocking them out of the park, don't they?

The359
December 22nd, 2014, 09:45 AM
I find the new CTS-V to be a bit boring. Why does it need a side vent like the SS? Also, automatic only.

Kchrpm
December 22nd, 2014, 10:00 AM
Cadillac also says that all changes to the bodywork are functional.
It's possible they needed a place for hot air to get out.

thesameguy
December 22nd, 2014, 10:07 AM
I find the new CTS-V to be a bit boring. Why does it need a side vent like the SS? Also, automatic only.

640hp is a lot to manage with a clutch. As much as I like manuals, I get it.

Godson
December 22nd, 2014, 01:07 PM
I guess the draw for a manual Caddy isn't much.


Not surprised.

Kchrpm
December 22nd, 2014, 08:19 PM
The ATS-Vs will have manual transmissions, AFAIK. It's just the CTS line, from base through V-Sport to V that don't.

Random
December 22nd, 2014, 08:30 PM
Makes vague sense given their apparent desire to move it from being a 3-series/5-series tweener to more of a 5-series direct competitor.

21Kid
December 29th, 2014, 10:07 AM
Not a fan of the headlights. But, otherwise I like it.

I don't understand why they want to make Cadillac into a sportier brand either. :?

thesameguy
December 29th, 2014, 10:09 AM
Because that's what sells. Nobody makes straight up luxury cars anymore, and they haven't sold well since the '80s anyway. BMW nailed that coffin shut - even Benz had to change their MO 15 years ago.

Kchrpm
December 29th, 2014, 02:30 PM
I don't understand why they want to make Cadillac into a sportier brand either. :?
Plus these are just the sport models, they still have the boring models.

21Kid
December 31st, 2014, 07:59 AM
That's good... I guess. :lol:

Kchrpm
February 10th, 2015, 06:31 AM
ATS-V starts at $61,460 for the sedan, $63,660 for the coupe.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/02/10/cadillac-ats-v-order-pricing-official/

M3 Sedan: $62000
M4 Coupe: $64200
C63 AMG Sedan: $60,250
C63 AMG Coupe: $63,000
RS5 Coupe: $70,900

So that price checks out, but it could be argued that they would need to undercut the competition to get over the not-a-German hump.

novicius
February 10th, 2015, 06:49 AM
Either that or they're going to try to grow the label and are preparing for a low 5-10K annual sales, etc.

GB
February 10th, 2015, 07:08 AM
Let me just say, I'd love to own a CTS-V or ATS-V (ATS-V is more my style, I think) The cars are fantastic, and GM's engineers are doing great work.

But as usual, GM Corporate-Think from their useless, self-defeating management structure is threatening to torpedo the whole she-bang. Have they learned NOTHING?!?

I've lost the link, but according to Car and Driver, a Cadillac executive has said that they could easily be $10,000-$15,000 cheaper on both models, sell a gazillion of them, and make a great profit.

But the price is ARTIFICIALLY HIGH, to INTENTIONALLY keep the sales numbers low, in order to create ARTIFICIAL scarcity and "price-point prestige".

Price-point prestige. :smh:

It seems to me they are bound and determined to ruin this entire organization with bad management. They have engineers that can do great work. LET THE PEOPLE ENJOY THE FRUITS OF THEIR LABOR!

Free Enterprise, in a nutshell, is: Supply a product or service that people want or need at a price they can afford. Why must middle managers throw so much mud on this principle? Just to justify their position, and cover their ineptitude? It literally makes me sick to my stomach.

Kchrpm
February 10th, 2015, 07:17 AM
Don't think for a second that middle management is making that decision. That decision has been made by the new head of Cadillac, Johan de Nysschen, who made Audi competitive with BMW and Mercedes, and didn't result in much of anything with Infiniti, as far as I can tell.

Whether that $10k-$15k upcharge is true, how the vehicles would sell at that price, and the like I have no idea on. I'd really like to see the article you're talking about.

Edit: $10k-$15k off the price of the ATS-V is just the price of a highly optioned 3.6 ATS, btw.

Kchrpm
February 10th, 2015, 07:25 AM
This might be the quote you're talking about, I wonder if there's another version with numbers:

Ellinghaus also told reporters that while Cadillacs are still a little cheaper than the Germans, pricing might get more competitive (read: more expensive) in the future. "Premium cars charge premium prices for premium substance."
From: http://jalopnik.com/cadillac-might-build-an-ats-v-coupe-and-it-wont-be-chea-1501116379

novicius
February 10th, 2015, 08:06 AM
Right -- and the number of buyers for that premium American product is going to be small. #shrug I bet they ask their dealers to hold fast to the price point, too.

Note that I'm all for it: this is how it's gotta be done and it's going to take 10 years at least to grow your fanbase. The fanbase right now is basically the last bastion of Lutz supporters, most likely...

thesameguy
February 10th, 2015, 08:55 AM
Note that I'm all for it: this is how it's gotta be done and it's going to take 10 years at least to grow your fanbase. The fanbase right now is basically the last bastion of Lutz supporters, most likely...

I think you gotta do it the other way, though. You don't get to say "This is expensive, thus it is good." You gotta spend 10 or 20 years building the brand and slowly increasing prices to keep sales in check.

Ford has broadly raised the prices on their cars to account for the leaps in quality and refinement, and I think it'd be fine for Cadillac to do that as well. But these are huge leaps - $60k V or $70k M? No way would I take a risk on the Cadillac. It'd take a long time for me to take Cadillac's word over BMW's.

TheBenior
February 10th, 2015, 09:01 AM
Judging by reported lease rates on BMWs, I'd say that those are at least as important as MSRP, if not more so.

KillerB
February 10th, 2015, 09:04 AM
I disagree. IMO, one of the big reasons that Mercedes-Benz caught on as a status symbol in the US in the 1960s was, in large part, because they were more expensive than the most expensive Cadillac you could buy. People can talk about their legendary solidity and whatnot, but the reality is, in the 1960s, MB was selling taxicabs with nicer interiors in the US and making bank because they were a way to look snobbier than the "working man made good" in his Cadillac.

By nearly any objective standard, aside from high-speed handling, mid-60s Cadillacs were superior - or at least better suited - to American driving conditions than MBs were. Mercedes were underpowered, with poor automatic transmissions, and not a V8 to be had until 1969, which itself only offered 200 hp.

It's hard to figure out what advantage MB had, aside from costing more, and therefore showing the world that you had more money to blow than some piker in a mere Cadillac. Don't underestimate that advantage. True high-end car buyers don't want value for money, they want the world to know that they have so much money, value doesn't matter.

Cheapie lease rates are a whole different story. The $300 a month BMW is what a young professional gets, because a $300 a month lease gets you a much nicer looking car than a $300 a month purchase. Go see what it costs to lease an M3 or a V; it ain't $300 a month. Two totally different markets.

novicius
February 10th, 2015, 09:12 AM
You gotta spend 10 or 20 years building the brand and slowly increasing prices to keep sales in check.
Yeah but maybe de Nysschen is blindly taking past V-label sales as that specific past growth to stand on?

He's not been über successful outside of Audi so it's not like everything he touches turns to gold...

thesameguy
February 10th, 2015, 09:33 AM
It's hard to figure out what advantage MB had, aside from costing more, and therefore showing the world that you had more money to blow than some piker in a mere Cadillac. Don't underestimate that advantage. True high-end car buyers don't want value for money, they want the world to know that they have so much money, value doesn't matter.

I think that's true, and I know people who won't drive a Lexus because a Mercedes costs more. Those people totally exist. But those are truths you get to apply to top-of-the-range models, not across the board. Even Mercedes competes on the C-class and has since the '80s when BMW started beating them up with the 3er. Plus, Mercedes (and BMW) don't have thirty or forty years of shitty cars and lousy resale to make up for. You can grab even a C-class out of any point in time and be confident it's gonna be an ok car. You can grab an S-class and know it was a very good car, if not the best car. There are only a handful of Cadillacs made in my lifetime you can even say anything good about. Audi spent most of the '90s building extremely nice cars before people started lining up like lemmings to buy them. I don't think Cadillac has put that time in.

thesameguy
February 10th, 2015, 09:34 AM
Yeah but maybe de Nysschen is blindly taking past V-label sales as that specific past growth to stand on?


He could. Or maybe he's still working with the Germans to sink Cadillac!

That's my theory, anyway.

Kchrpm
February 10th, 2015, 09:44 AM
Cadillac may just be able to rely on Escalade profits while they attempt to establish their cars as common price, common features, better execution than the Germans, and live with the shit sales.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/02/10/cadillac-escalade-demand-sedans-report/

thesameguy
February 10th, 2015, 10:04 AM
Sheesh! And I guess if you're making fifteen large a car you can funnel a LOT of dough back into R&D.

They should just focus on selling one $5m car a year! ;)

Kchrpm
February 10th, 2015, 10:12 AM
Fancy minivans FTW.

Freude am Fahren
February 10th, 2015, 12:34 PM
The should reverse Escalade them. Throw on a Chevy badge, get rid of some luxury and sell them for $10k less :shocker:

GB
February 10th, 2015, 01:23 PM
I can't find the direct quote I'm referencing, but:

Autoweek: "After a hot 2013, Cadillac sales have slid this year as higher sticker prices repelled customers, leading to gluts of CTS and ATS sedans on dealer lots"

Cadillac must be willing to forgo some traditional buyers as it works to attract the higher-end clientele it's now courting with a revitalized vehicle lineup. "We cannot deny the fact that we are leaving behind our traditional customer base," de Nysschen said. "It will take several years before a sufficiently large part of the audience who until now have been concentrating on the German brands will find us in their consideration set."

Some Cadillac dealers and market pundits blame GM's strategy of pricing the vehicles head-to-head with BMW, Mercedes-Benz and other luxury leaders. They say steeper sticker prices -- some redesigned 2014 CTS models go for more than $10,000 above a comparable '13 -- have turned off buyers.

"Either you have to bring your volume aspirations into alignment with reality and accept that you will sell fewer cars," de Nysschen said. "Or you have to drop the price and continue to transact at the prices where you were historically."

I maintain that the logic of that last bit is nonsensical. It's the equivalent of beating your smart kid until his grades are down to the level of your dumb kid.

Godson
February 10th, 2015, 07:39 PM
I think you gotta do it the other way, though. You don't get to say "This is expensive, thus it is good." You gotta spend 10 or 20 years building the brand and slowly increasing prices to keep sales in check.

Ford has broadly raised the prices on their cars to account for the leaps in quality and refinement, and I think it'd be fine for Cadillac to do that as well. But these are huge leaps - $60k V or $70k M? No way would I take a risk on the Cadillac. It'd take a long time for me to take Cadillac's word over BMW's.



And I'd rather have the Caddy over anything that BMW pisses out right now. IMO all the cars from BMW are shit, and current reports seem to back that up on the reliability side of things. Issues like engines crapping out inside of warranty, electronic systems having massive issues when only a few years old.

speedpimp
February 11th, 2015, 04:09 AM
And if this new strategy fails then just how fucked is Caddy?

novicius
February 11th, 2015, 04:18 AM
They can always drop the price after de Nysschen is gone.

Kchrpm
February 11th, 2015, 04:22 AM
It's not really fair to compare previous CTS prices to current ones, the new one is a larger car. The old CTS tried to split the difference between the 3 series and 5 series, the new one is clearly aimed at the 5 series as the ATS is now taking the 3 series on.

And sales dropped on the two also because they're no longer brand new models. They just need to adjust their production schedules to the current demand and continue to let the Escalade pay for everything until consumers come around. If they never do, kick out JdN and try the next plan.

thesameguy
February 11th, 2015, 09:04 AM
Yep, pretty much. Really, how much damage can actually be done to the Cadillac brand? Nothing could worse than the '80s, and they've survived this long!

GB
February 11th, 2015, 10:53 AM
It's not really fair to compare previous CTS prices to current ones, the new one is a larger car.

And sales dropped on the two also because they're no longer brand new models.
Um, this is contradictory. If the 'new' one is a larger car, then it must be the new model.

They raised prices on the old model before it finished. And now even more on the new ones.

"Let's raise the price for exclusivity! It will be more exclusive because fewer people will be willing to spend that much money on it!" Genius.

Kchrpm
February 11th, 2015, 11:21 AM
Um, this is contradictory. If the 'new' one is a larger car, then it must be the new model.
The price jumped in going between the old style 2013 CTS (which was sized between the 3 and 5 series) and the new style 2014 CTS (which is at 5-series size). The new style CTS has been on sale since October of 2013, and the ATS has been on sale since August of 2012. Any pent up demand for the new hotness is now over, and you have to go with selling purely based on merits and not the fact that certain people were waiting for them to come out. Similar to how the Hummer H2 had awesome sales the first year, and then nothing, because the people that had been waiting for them all got one and not many got in line behind them.

Having the prices of new cars be similar to the prices of the competition which they are now closer to matching in specifications and features is not a bad thing. It would be great if they undercut the competition by 5 grand, but they think having lower prices will hurt sales in the long run because it will hurt their image (or at least not raise it from where it was).

I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but it's what they're doing, and it has seemingly worked before in that segment. And they can ride Escalade profits long enough to find out if it will work.

Kchrpm
February 23rd, 2015, 09:18 AM
JdN is doing an AMA on Jalopnik, and revealed some small nuggets of info on the CT6: its engines will range from turbocharged 4 cylinder to turbocharged V8, but that will roll out later. Also there will be no manual offered (not surprising).

There's also a brief mention of the sub-ATS RWD car, on the same Alpha platform as the ATS and CTS, which will come in right where the A3 and CLA are pricewise (30 grand).

http://jalopnik.com/ask-cadillac-president-johan-de-nysschen-anything-1687372646

thesameguy
February 23rd, 2015, 09:34 AM
There's also a brief mention of the sub-ATS RWD car, on the same Alpha platform as the ATS and CTS, which will come in right where the A3 and CLA are pricewise (30 grand).

That could be gold. Selling RWD where Benz is selling FWD is spicy. Of course, back in my day this is where the CTS came in. Progress? I think not. :lol:

Freude am Fahren
February 23rd, 2015, 01:45 PM
So as some may have read in the motorcycle thread, my dad had a severe leg injury in an accident. As such, he has to sell the Corvette. Can't drive stick, and even though he could take a hit and get an automatic, he wants something easier to get in and out of.

Right now the front-runner seems to be a '16 CTS-V. I told him to look into the ATS-V and SS as well, but the CTS-V would be pretty badass. I also mentioned the GT-R and Hellcats. He's "not a Mopar man," and also can't see himself in a Japanese car :lol:

novicius
February 23rd, 2015, 02:07 PM
Hennessey HPE500 Supercharged Upgrade (http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/tahoe-53-di-hpe500.html)

That's easy to get into. :cool:

Freude am Fahren
February 23rd, 2015, 03:41 PM
:up: He has an Avalanche too, and hasn't decided if he wants to keep it and get a sedan/coupe or trade both in and get something with more utility. One of his problems is also small parking space in his building...

Kchrpm
February 23rd, 2015, 05:48 PM
I can give the Vette a nice home for the right price...about a quarter of what he paid for it :D

neanderthal
February 24th, 2015, 12:46 PM
I disagree. IMO, one of the big reasons that Mercedes-Benz caught on as a status symbol in the US in the 1960s was, in large part, because they were more expensive than the most expensive Cadillac you could buy. People can talk about their legendary solidity and whatnot, but the reality is, in the 1960s, MB was selling taxicabs with nicer interiors in the US and making bank because they were a way to look snobbier than the "working man made good" in his Cadillac.

By nearly any objective standard, aside from high-speed handling, mid-60s Cadillacs were superior - or at least better suited - to American driving conditions than MBs were. Mercedes were underpowered, with poor automatic transmissions, and not a V8 to be had until 1969, which itself only offered 200 hp.

You're conveniently overlooking Mercedes extensive crash testing (crumple zones, padded dashboards, collapsible (padded) steering wheels, etc) disc brakes all round, independent suspension all round, radial tires, tighter construction tolerances and better dynamics, low and high speed. The Cadillacs of the 60s had that nice plush ride till you went around a corner, more power and amenities, more room, and lower price.


It's hard to figure out what advantage MB had, aside from costing more, and therefore showing the world that you had more money to blow than some piker in a mere Cadillac. Don't underestimate that advantage. True high-end car buyers don't want value for money, they want the world to know that they have so much money, value doesn't matter.

Cheapie lease rates are a whole different story. The $300 a month BMW is what a young professional gets, because a $300 a month lease gets you a much nicer looking car than a $300 a month purchase. Go see what it costs to lease an M3 or a V; it ain't $300 a month. Two totally different markets.

neanderthal
February 24th, 2015, 01:10 PM
I think the main differentiator is that it's very hard to stand out in the luxury car market. Sure, Ford has spiffed up their Taurus/ 500, Fusion, Focus, Fiesta etc and you can now clearly tell that their products are just as good or better than the comparable Fit/ Accord/ Camry etc. It's hard to make that same statement in a comparison between an Infiniti and Cadillac. Can you tell me that the ATS/ CTS is clearly better than the Q50, which is about as anonymous a luxury competitor I can think of, outside of the Kia K900. Just ask yourself how crowded the luxury car market is; Acura, BMW, ostensibly Buick, Cadillac, Infiniti, Jaguar, Lexus, Lincoln, Mercedes, Volvo with Kia (K900,) Hyundai (Genesis,) Volkswagen (CC,) Toyota (Avalon) also making "luxury/ near luxury." Does Cadillac stand out? In any discernible way?

Cadillac needs to stand out. They don't, outside of the Escalade. And until they do, they can't demand a premium price.

Freude am Fahren
March 2nd, 2015, 12:42 PM
http://blog-admin.cddev.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/2015-Cadillac-CTS-V-107.jpg

Looking at this picture of the wheel well, something seems very off. The Caddy has 5 added heat exchangers over a normal one, including a auxillary radiator in front of one wheel well, an intercooler in the other, both venting as you see here. So they're venting hot air directly onto the brakes??? Looks like a small brake duct just next to the exhaust grate, but overheating brakes my be a problem with this car...

http://www.caranddriver.com/flipbook/15-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-640-hp-200-mph-2016-cadillac-cts-v#9

thesameguy
March 2nd, 2015, 01:31 PM
Whatever hot is coming off and air:x heat exchanger is going to be a LOT lower than the heat coming off the brakes. You don't need cold air to cool something, it just needs to be colder than the thing it's cooling.

neanderthal
March 2nd, 2015, 07:35 PM
Venting there may also help to create a boundary in the wheel well to reduce some of the turbulence. As long as that little vent is there it's probably fine, as that seems to be directed at the brakes, whereas the heat exchanger seems to vent right at the front side of the tire.

Kchrpm
March 24th, 2015, 10:40 AM
http://jalopnik.com/turns-out-the-cadillac-ats-v-is-more-powerful-than-expe-1693364811

SAE testing has revealed slightly more power, and the 0-60 time has been reduced to 3.8 from 3.9. BRING IT ON, GERMANS!

Kchrpm
March 24th, 2015, 11:21 AM
Cadillac needs to stand out. They don't, outside of the Escalade. And until they do, they can't demand a premium price.
They're not demanding a premium price, they're offering a competitive price for the competition they're in, which is premium one.

thesameguy
March 24th, 2015, 11:52 AM
I think the prices they're talking about are fair in a vacuum, but I'd certainly not be willing to be one of the guinea pigs to find out if raising the selling price results in a defensible resale price. If it's Cadillac or BMW for $50k and in five years the BMW is worth $40k and the Cadillac $30k, buying the Caddy would probably be a bad use of money. If you could make the argument the ownership experience in the Cadillac was worth the extra ten grand (maybe it's faster, gets better gas mileage, the dealership is plusher, I dunno) then you might have something. But I think if the Cadillac *was* technically superior to the BMW, there wouldn't be the long term value discrepancy in the first place. ;)

And maybe it'll work out that way ultimately. Maybe resale will improve because the cars really are that good. But maybe it won't. Maybe they aren't. in any case, if I had to pull the trigger on a luxury car right now the only Cadillac I'd buy would be a heavily discounted one. ;) Otherwise, it's probably a German for me.

ORRRRRR I will continue to kick it '80s style in up this bitch. My driveway looks rad with a Saab, XR4Ti, and a Fiero in it. I just need to find an awesome '80s 4-door.

novicius
March 24th, 2015, 11:57 AM
ORRRRRR I will continue to kick it '80s style in up this bitch. My driveway looks rad with a Saab, XR4Ti, and a Fiero in it. I just need to find an awesome '80s 4-door.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7357/11972174614_43cfc43b07_b.jpg

thesameguy
March 24th, 2015, 12:08 PM
Jesus, I don't know how I missed that. Well played.

To totally threadjack, this would also fit quite nicely...

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t47/chwriting/imagejpg1_zps3388fa4b.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t47/chwriting/imagejpg3_zps36d12a3c.jpg

speedpimp
March 24th, 2015, 04:55 PM
Years ago a neighbor had an '86 manual Taurus wagon. I wonder how many they made, couldn't have been too many.

GB
March 24th, 2015, 07:53 PM
80's 4-door?

http://images.classiccars.com/preview/646117_19818553_1984_Aston%2bMartin_Lagonda.jpg

neanderthal
March 24th, 2015, 09:53 PM
ORRRRRR I will continue to kick it '80s style in up this bitch. My driveway looks rad with a Saab, XR4Ti, and a Fiero in it. I just need to find an awesome '80s 4-door.

I think you're looking for a W126 Mercedes. 560SEL. Euro light, euro bumpers.

thesameguy
March 24th, 2015, 10:24 PM
80's 4-door?

http://images.classiccars.com/preview/646117_19818553_1984_Aston%2bMartin_Lagonda.jpg

The guy I bought my 164Q had one of those. In. Sane.


I think you're looking for a W126 Mercedes. 560SEL. Euro light, euro bumpers.

That could be right too! YEAH!

Random
March 25th, 2015, 06:38 AM
ORRRRRR I will continue to kick it '80s style in up this bitch. My driveway looks rad with a Saab, XR4Ti, and a Fiero in it. I just need to find an awesome '80s 4-door.

http://germancarsforsaleblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/black_e28_m5.jpg

thesameguy
March 25th, 2015, 08:32 AM
Years ago a neighbor had an '86 manual Taurus wagon. I wonder how many they made, couldn't have been too many.

I have always wanted to see one of those. The Taurus MT5 is a unicorn - for years I doubted they ever even went into production after being included in the owner's manual. It does explain why they had all the interior parts for the SHO, though.

thesameguy
March 25th, 2015, 08:32 AM
http://germancarsforsaleblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/black_e28_m5.jpg

The ship has sailed on any E28 worth owning. They're all falling apart. :(

KillerB
March 25th, 2015, 07:33 PM
A friend of mine in high school had an MT-5 sedan. His dad bought it new. That's the only reason I knew they existed. :)

Kchrpm
April 1st, 2015, 04:55 AM
http://m.caranddriver.com/news/2016-cadillac-ct6-photos-and-info-news

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/15q1/654924/2016-cadillac-ct6-photos-and-info-news-car-and-driver-photo-657827-s-original.jpg

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2016-cadillac-ct6-inline1-photo-657996-s-original.jpg

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2016-cadillac-ct6-inline4-photo-657994-s-original.jpg

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2016-cadillac-ct6-inline2-photo-657990-s-original.jpg

Base is 3700 lbs, RWD w/turbo 4 @ 265 hp. For more power you get V6s, naturally aspirated (335 hp) or turbocharged (400 hp), with AWD. No V8s yet. For a size comparison, the wheelbase is 7.8 inches longer than a CTS.

thesameguy
April 1st, 2015, 08:53 AM
Looks pretty darned good! The offering of a four cylinder in a car like that is kinda nuts!

Kchrpm
April 1st, 2015, 09:01 AM
That kind of market doesn't give a damn about mileage, right? I don't know people in it, but I just assume they'd only buy a hybrid because it says hybrid, not because of the EPA ratings.

So therefore I will randomly guess that it will be a rental car special (like the 2.5 ATS).

thesameguy
April 1st, 2015, 09:48 AM
I'd buy into that. Could also be aimed for-hire use where fuel economy trumps passing power. 3700lbs and 265hp isn't exactly slow - that's roughly where the 5-series was in the '90s and people thought the 540i was a hoot. Maybe Cadillac is hoping people really are over counting litres and cylinders as a measure of performance.

Kchrpm
April 1st, 2015, 11:46 AM
While simultaneously developing an 800 hp Camaro in their skunkworks :D

Freude am Fahren
April 1st, 2015, 12:36 PM
The 4-cyl not only helps fleet numbers for regs, but I think you underestimate the cheapness of people who have money. Plenty of people in $100,000 cars will gladly drive an extra mile or two to save 10 cents on fuel :lol:

Kchrpm
April 1st, 2015, 01:07 PM
The 4-cyl not only helps fleet numbers for regs, but I think you underestimate the cheapness of people who have money. Plenty of people in $100,000 cars will gladly drive an extra mile or two to save 10 cents on fuel :lol:

:up: Like I said, I don't really know any :)

Kchrpm
April 24th, 2015, 06:12 AM
Info about the plug in hybrid model came out

http://media.cadillac.com/media/us/en/cadillac/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2015/apr/0419-ct6.html


PHEV system expected to achieve fuel economy more than double that of conventional engine
Total system power estimated 335 hp and 432 lb-ft of torque
Includes Regen-on-Demand system

http://blog.caranddriver.com/socket-to-me-cadillac-ct6-plug-in-hybrid-announced-detailed/

Kchrpm
April 25th, 2015, 09:31 PM
First drive of the ATS-V, around Austin and at COTA

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/26/2016-cadillac-ats-v-first-drive-review-video/?ncid=edlinkusauto00000016


Most impressive is how the ATS-V stands up to its German foes. Sure, you can put a finer point on the differences and note that the Cadillac's V6 lacks the addictive qualities of the Mercedes-AMG C63's torquey V8, or realize that its chassis isn't quite as delicately balanced as the BMW's, but you might be missing the point. Cadillac has stepped up with a seriously competitive car, and its ATS-V makes a compelling argument for itself in a high performance realm where it wasn't always taken seriously. Some drivers may still prefer to go German – and those reasons are perfectly valid – but now more than ever, it's a compelling time to opt for the American alternative.

Specifically related to our discussion on if they should stand out on price


Whereas previous V cars made a statement because of their bang-for-buck proposition, the ATS-V becomes a bargain when options are piled on, a real world reality that has a way of handicapping its German competitors, especially BMW. Starting at $61,460 for the sedan and $63,660 for the coupe, the Cadillacs don't seem far off from BMW's $62,950 and $65,150 MSRPs until you consider that base Bimmers lack keyless entry, parking assist, a rear-view camera, satellite radio, and active damping. And while the Mercedes-AMG C63's starting price of $63,900 is a bit more plausible, the C63 S's $71,900 entry point is next-level steep (as is its performance), putting the ATS-V into a more favorable economic light.

So the base MSRP, quoted in press releases, will be close, but the actual prices of cars on the lot (because who orders a BMW without keyless entry) may still be strongly in Cadillac's favor.

Kchrpm
April 29th, 2015, 06:58 PM
http://jalopnik.com/beastly-2016-cadillac-cts-v-starts-at-84k-still-cheap-1700983842

$83,995 for the CTS-V


It’s admittedly a steep price for a Cadillac. But it’s quite a bit cheaper than its German competitors. A BMW M5 starts at $93,600, an Audi RS7 starts at $108,900, and a Mercedes E63 AMG starts at $101,700. The CTS-V is also a lot more powerful than those cars. Viewed that way, it may just be a steal.

Kchrpm
May 26th, 2015, 05:32 AM
Rumor: an even faster ATS-V will be introduced, with the LS7.

http://wot.motortrend.com/1505_cadillac_ats_v_to_feature_ls7_power.html#__fe derated=1

I don't believe it. I would love it, but I don't believe it.

Freude am Fahren
May 26th, 2015, 07:16 AM
Maybe, as a coupe only or something in very limited numbers, priced just under the CTS-V?

Kchrpm
July 23rd, 2015, 11:22 AM
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1507_2016_cadillac_ats_v_first_test_review/


Identically equipped save for the transmissions and the doors, the ATS-V Coupe was the lighter of the two, weighing 3,754 pounds to the sedan's 3,788. Lighter but not faster. The manual-equipped coupe runs to 60 mph from a standstill in 4.2 seconds and through the quarter mile in 12.6 seconds at 114.2 mph. The eight-speed-equipped ATS-V Sedan does the deed quicker, hitting 60 mph in 3.7 seconds and blasting through the quarter mile a half-second quicker — 12.1 seconds at 116.2 mph. Where does the extra speed come from? Likely the sedan's fast-shifting automatic. As much as we love shifting our own gears, the ATS-V's somewhat notchy manual transmission just can't hold a candle to the slushbox when it comes to going quickly. The heavier sedan also manages to outbrake the coupe, the four-door needing 99 feet in the 60-0 mph stopping test to the two-door's 101.

The ATS-V Coupe makes up some ground when corners get thrown into the mix, but not much. On the skidpad, the ATS-V Coupe shows its potential, netting a 1.04g average, and the ATS-V Sedan musters up a 1.03g average. But again, the manual sadly proves to be the Coupe's undoing; its best figure-eight run was 23.9 seconds averaging 0.86 g, and the sedan managed an impressive 23.7-second time averaging 0.89 g.

----------------------------

For reference, the ATS-V Sedan essentially matches our long-term 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray Z51 in all performance metrics, and it does so with an extra 400 pounds in tow. Our long-term 'Vette does 0-60 in 3.8 seconds, goes through the quarter mile in 12.1 at 117.8 mph, and can lap the figure eight in 23.5 seconds while averaging 0.91 g.

thesameguy
July 23rd, 2015, 11:39 AM
Jeebus.

Godson
July 23rd, 2015, 12:09 PM
Fuck me... perhaps the 911...



Wait, nevermind. :)

Kchrpm
July 31st, 2015, 05:57 AM
Autoblog's Cadillac CTS-V First Drive, at Road America (http://www.autoblog.com/2015/07/31/2016-cadillac-cts-v-first-drive/)

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/356/329/6/S3563296/slug/l/09-2016-cadillac-cts-v-fd-1.jpg

Kchrpm
August 6th, 2015, 07:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NBO8ZqRyCw

Kchrpm
August 19th, 2015, 01:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIrqvW7Rj88

George
December 14th, 2015, 11:57 AM
The proper operation of a '66 (I think) Cadillac:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHv_-q2YNFE

thesameguy
December 14th, 2015, 12:02 PM
That's how we do..

novicius
February 2nd, 2016, 10:59 AM
The Cadillac ELR Will Die in its First Generation (http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/news/a28070/goodbye-cadillac-elr/)

Note to self: keep an eye out for used ELR's in 3 or 4 years...

Kchrpm
February 2nd, 2016, 11:17 AM
Oh, I saw the CT6 and XT5 in person and on the road when I went to the Detroit Auto Show. They were very pretty and well received by the people who were there. Some of the tech sounded really good, including the wide angle rear view camera whose display is the entire rear view mirror. The switch that in many cars goes between the two positions for night and day switches between mirror and camera display.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/2016-Cadillac-CT6-Rear-Mirror-Camera-1024x682.jpg

The rear seat passengers each having their own Chromecast-compatible displays is damn cool, too.

JoshInKC
February 2nd, 2016, 02:50 PM
No wonder the ELR is going away. when I saw the post, I was like"which one is the elr?" Then I clicked the link and I'm pretty sure I've literally never seen that car on the road.

thesameguy
February 2nd, 2016, 03:09 PM
They are so expensive it's not much a surprise. Still a great looking car though! :)

Yw-slayer
February 2nd, 2016, 07:32 PM
It's a pity, the ELR looked really stylo.

thesameguy
February 3rd, 2016, 08:53 AM
ZOMG, I just priced out used ELRs. A '14 goes for seventy large. No wonder nobody is buying them! Tesla or ELR is not a choice that should even exist.

Freude am Fahren
February 3rd, 2016, 09:33 AM
I thought they had HUGE discounts. Like to the point that you'd have to be a moron to buy a Volt. Maybe that was just for a limited time.

thesameguy
February 3rd, 2016, 09:36 AM
Must have been. The two '16s in stock locally are $75k+, the two used ones are $70k. Some quick checking via cars.com nationwide shows that's the going price.

novicius
February 3rd, 2016, 09:39 AM
What? Autotrader.com has plenty of sub-$40K ELRs, used.

Freude am Fahren
February 3rd, 2016, 09:39 AM
Found it. It's from two years ago, but they were selling at like $15-20k off MSRP. Add in the tax credits, that's more reasonable.

http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/you-can-get-an-absolutely-insane-deal-on-the-cadillac-e-1606545759

http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/654296662/overview/
^$15k off^

thesameguy
February 3rd, 2016, 09:43 AM
What? Autotrader.com has plenty of sub-$40K ELRs, used.

Sure, but also mountains of much more expensive ones:

Highest Price:$85,565
Lowest Price:$32,500
Average Price:$55,582

novicius
February 3rd, 2016, 09:51 AM
Oh yeah well either they'll sell or those dealers will eventually drop their prices.

But seriously, 16K-mile ELRs for $32K? That's a perfectly fine used price.

thesameguy
February 3rd, 2016, 09:53 AM
Agreed on all accounts.

Kchrpm
April 5th, 2016, 12:55 PM
http://jalopnik.com/cadillac-gives-up-on-big-flagship-luxury-sedan-report-1769189427

Autoline is reporting that Cadillac has cancelled plans for a CT8, easiest described as what would likely have been an S-Class competitor in size and cost. Reasoning is likely two-fold: popularity of the Escalade and other luxury C/SUVs, and Cadillac's difficulty stealing sales away from Germans.

There's a large segment of the market that simply won't buy Cadillac over BMW/Mercedes/Audi, period, and another large segment that won't buy Cadillac except at a great discount for a similar class.

But dwarfing both of those segments seems to be the market segment that hoovers up any and all new luxury C/SUVs to varying amounts. From what I understand, the Escalade (even before the update) was Cadillac's big money maker, and the SRX its big volume leader (http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/cadillac/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2015/aug/0805-cadillac-sales.html confirms).

One could argue that a $100k+ sedan could have brought a lot of fanfare and attention to the brand, which might change people's minds. That had to be what people within Cadillac were hoping, but perhaps it was just decided that the smarter bet is to double down on their strengths and stop trying to force people to think how you want them to think.

thesameguy
April 5th, 2016, 02:49 PM
I am happy they are seeing reason and not competing for the sake of competition. I did not know the SRX was selling all that well - I never see them around here. Glad to hear they are - I've always liked the SRX, the old big one and the new small one. I wonder if based on GM's current R&D efforts they'd have any success skipping the S-class competitor and going for a Model S competitor. Seems like they have most of the pieces.

TheBenior
April 5th, 2016, 02:57 PM
Probably the right decision, given probable sales and profit margins.

As you said, the large luxury sedan segment is not a particularly large one. Post-recession, US BMW 7-Series sales peaked at 12,253 in 2010, and totaled 9,292 in 2015. The Audi A8's best US sales year ever was 6,300 sold in 2013, and they sold 4,990 in 2015. The S-Class' best US post-recession sales peak was 25,276 in 2014, which fell to 21,934 in 2015.

I don't see Cadillac getting the same global sales figures and margins as the S-Class or the 7-Series, nor, AFIAK, would the platform be shared with anything like the 7-Series and A8 platforms are. A flagship Cadillac might total the A8's global sales (~40k per year), but the A8 gets to amortize platform development costs with the Phaeton and Bentley cars.

Edit: I guess it could've been a stretched CT6, but I'm guessing early sales probably haven't been great, and a bigger version would probably just split the market the way that the Jeep Commander did with the WK Grand Cherokee (new 2006 Commander sells 88k, 2006 Grand Cherokee sales fall by 75k vs 2005).

thesameguy
April 5th, 2016, 03:10 PM
Wait, I've got it!

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12378&stc=1&d=1231176078

TheBenior
April 5th, 2016, 03:28 PM
But they already made that in a different wrapper:

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201407/2015-cadillac-ats-l_800x0w.jpg

novicius
April 6th, 2016, 04:01 AM
:lol: :up:

Nice infodump, Ross. :up:

The Escalade is the new Eldorado. Just stick with it, build around it, and keep innovating it. Light truck emissions are always going to be more lenient than cars so that's an advantage -- as are the presumptive profit margins and market share.

Hopefully GM didn't spend too much money conducting the comparative study. ;)

neanderthal
April 6th, 2016, 10:52 PM
While it's a smart decision, it's also a bit short-sighted.

Audi didn't get to where they are by NOT building an A8. And then constantly improving it.

Kchrpm
April 7th, 2016, 02:44 AM
Audi didn't already have a vehicle at that price point that had 15+ years of strong sales and name recognition. I compared US and European sales for the A8/S8 and the Escalade (including ESV and EXT) as reported by the same site, last year the Escalade outsold the Audi by more than 24,000 vehicles. From 2010 - 2015, the gap is 91,000, and from 2000 - 2015, it's 431,000. The Escalade is Cadillac's flagship, and it kicks the ass of Audi's flagship in sales.

In fact, from 2000 - 2015, the Escalade has outsold the A8, S-Class and 7-Series in the US and Europe.

Cadillac Escalade Audi A8 Mercedes-Benz S-Class BMW 7-Series
2000 23346 11964 61710 30043
2001 31816 10498. 56607 24105
2002 49658 8408 42449 38056
2003 59752 16030. 41409 35378
2004 62250 18439 34255 29226
2005 51144 15991 28645 30670
2006 62302 15779 55744 29680
2007 61671 13897 47304 23053
2008 40123 11562. 34376 20293
2009 26047 5617 23285 21788
2010 27060 9734. 24113 21852
2011 25674 14691. 21877 20499
2012 22788 12805 19093 19271
2013 22627 11786 22039 16912
2014 30522 12460 42914 15051
2015 35923 11707 38517 15277
Total 632703 201368 594337 391154

Godson
April 7th, 2016, 03:56 AM
And it is essentially the same vehicle as a suburban

Kchrpm
April 7th, 2016, 05:28 AM
Customers seem to be fine with the upgrades from the Suburban, and it just makes the profit margins even better. It seemingly isn't hurting sales too much.

Related: the S-Class and 7-series serve as the base for more expensive models (Maybach S600 and Rolls-Royce Ghost, respectively), and the A8 shares its platform with the VW Phaeton below and the Bentley Flying Spur above.

TheBenior
April 7th, 2016, 05:49 AM
Not like a Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon is cheap these days either; they start just under $50k. The only way to get a stripped out model these days is to be a Tahoe PPV buyer, and even then they're ~$44k (on paper, anyway, hard to say what a given fleet buyer is actually paying).

thesameguy
April 7th, 2016, 04:32 PM
Yeah - given how well the Escalade does and given how the Model S does against the A8/S-class, I just can't see any good reason to enter that market now.

I wonder how sales of the big German SUVs do against the A8/S-class. 2lazy 2look.

Kchrpm
August 29th, 2016, 10:34 AM
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/08/29/cadillac-xts-future-plans-de-nysschen-report/

The head of Cadillac replied to an article on The Detroit Bureau (http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2016/08/expansive-cadillac-product-plan-getting-squeezed), confirmed later by GM as actually being him, with some new info but not details.


"We ARE planning a Cadillac flagship which will NOT be a 4 door sedan;
We ARE planning a large crossover beneath Escalade;
We ARE planning a compact crossover beneath XT5;
We ARE planning a comprehensive enhancement to CT6 later during life cycle;
We ARE planning a major refresh for XTS;
We ARE planning a new Lux 3 sedan entry;
We ARE planning a new Lux 2 sedan entry;"

I don't know what Lux 3 or Lux 2 means. Lux 5 seems to be the S-Class/7-series range (he uses that to refer to the CT8 that isn't happening now), so 1/2/3/4/5 could equate to similar to BMW's Mini/1/3/5/7.


In addition, new powertrain applications for the above portfolio, which will include New Energy applications, are also part of the confirmed planning.

Tesla-killing Cadillac ENGAGE.

dodint
August 29th, 2016, 11:03 AM
"We ARE planning a Cadillac flagship which will NOT be a 4 door sedan"

Wagon fans, get yourselves into a lather.

21Kid
August 29th, 2016, 11:09 AM
LOL - he didn't say 2 doors. ;)
Could be 3 or 5!!!! :assclown:

Kchrpm
August 29th, 2016, 11:21 AM
4 door coupe ENGAGE.

Godson
August 29th, 2016, 06:10 PM
Tesla killing... Right. GM gets so much right, to fuck things up in the dumbest ways that kills it for me.

Kchrpm
August 30th, 2016, 04:41 AM
I thought the ENGAGE part made the sarcasm obvious :) Their biggest swing at electricity so far has been the ELR :lol:

novicius
August 30th, 2016, 04:52 AM
A sales-loser but still one hell of a swing. :up:

Kchrpm
April 3rd, 2017, 02:10 PM
http://jalopnik.com/cadillacs-entire-luxury-sedan-range-got-outsold-by-its-1793958485


@nickbunkley
Sales of Cadillac XT5 crossover in March (5,280) topped combined total of all 4 Cadillac sedans (ATS+CT6+CTS+XTS=4,701)

thesameguy
April 3rd, 2017, 02:40 PM
What could it mean???

The359
April 3rd, 2017, 02:55 PM
People are afraid of snow?

dodint
April 3rd, 2017, 06:33 PM
John dropped me a message on Facebook saying to come over and check out the ATS-V he bought. Says driving with the HUD is like playing Gran Turismo.

Cool.

Godson
April 3rd, 2017, 07:33 PM
John?

dodint
April 3rd, 2017, 07:48 PM
From John's Roofing.

;)

neanderthal
June 20th, 2017, 04:31 AM
Had a XTS for a week as a rental.

V6 front/ wrong wheel drive.

Amazing fuel economy, a great road trip car. We drove, fully loaded to Toronto, four of us, and back in serene road gobbling comfort. Probably not as involving as I would prefer. And I would definitely prefer rear wheel drive. I think we managed 26.7 miles per gallon with my cousing driving slightly more conservatively than I. I was doing 85- 90 mph and he was doing 70- 75mph. His missus and her sister were sat in comfort in the back and didn't make any complaints at all. In fact they also remarked on the comfort of the car.

I've been up for 24 hours at this point. Was at the airport for at least 12 hours, then the flight that I got on was delayed by almost three hours. I'm knackered.

Kchrpm
July 28th, 2017, 06:51 PM
http://jalopnik.com/cadillac-is-replacing-the-ats-and-cts-with-just-one-sed-1797332648


“We have to rebalance our sedan portfolio,” Johan de Nysschen told Reuters in interview, offering new details about the strategy.

Cadillac will not directly replace the current XTS, CTS or ATS sedans when they end their life cycles in 2019, he said. Instead, Cadillac will use a single new car called the CT5 to appeal to consumers shopping for sedans priced between $35,000 and $45,000. New versions of the CT6 sedan will be offered to customers who want a larger car starting at $50,000.

The CT5 will be built at a factory near Lansing, Michigan, that currently builds the slow-selling Cadillac ATS and CTS models. A small luxury sedan to compete with the Audi A3 will be built in the same plant, de Nysschen said.

Godson
July 28th, 2017, 07:31 PM
I think I said it when they announced pricing.

Nobody wants a 60k base model Camaro..

Freude am Fahren
July 28th, 2017, 09:00 PM
*moves the oddly placed CTS upmarket, and introduces ATS underneath.

...four years later...

*deletes ATS and moves CTS back down to awkward place in the market.

George
September 27th, 2017, 12:21 PM
https://i.redd.it/lnm4mr6lvfoz.jpg

Freude am Fahren
September 27th, 2017, 12:23 PM
Yup, that checks out :up:

speedpimp
October 1st, 2017, 12:56 PM
That doesn't look half bad.

Kchrpm
October 10th, 2017, 09:37 PM
Cadillac is pulling out of Pirelli World Challenge to focus on their prototypes.

http://autoweek.com/article/sports-cars/cadillac-leaving-pirelli-world-challenge-gt-racing

This opens the door for Callaway to sell their C7 GT3s to US customers for PWC.

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/doors-open-for-callaway-corvette-c7-gt3-r-in-imsa-pwc/

dodint
October 11th, 2017, 05:48 AM
Weird; I thought PWC existed solely to sell Cadillacs.