2014 Rolex 24

[Random]

Teev broadcast details (for the US): http://www.racer.com/fox-sports-air-times-revealed-for-rolex-24/article/329133/

Continental race will be on Friday at 6PM Eastern on FS1 (same-day coverage, not live).

[Phil_SS]

I'm really excited for this years race. The mixture of cars and prototypes is impressive and looks to lead to some great racing.

[The359]

After missing last year, my dad and I will be there for the full weekend. Should be nice to finally see some ALMS cars in person, and seeing how the two stack up. Definitely will be some new sounds around Daytona this year.

[Fogelhund]

It should be an interesting race. I'm expecting a lot of attrition, and quite a few yellow flags. I don't think a lot of the cars are ready for Daytona, including many of the DP's with some of the changes. So many cars... often leads to plenty of yellows. Hopefully I'm wrong and we see some good battles.

Both GT classes should be great.

[Kchrpm]

Hopefully there will be so much attrition/rain/whatever that a C7R wins outright :D

[Fogelhund]

Hopefully there will be so much attrition/rain/whatever that a C7R wins outright :D

That would be tough after being lapped by the new Porsche 911's.

[Kchrpm]

Oh, are we starting up already? :D

[The359]

Here's the official entry list as of yesterday: http://www.imsa.com/sites/default/files/races/entry_lists/Daytona%20Entry%20List%201-15.pdf

67 total cars. Prototype divided between 6 LMP2s, 11 DPs, and the DeltaWing. 9 PC cars, 11 GTLM, and a whooping 29 GTD cars.

[M4FFU]

UK folks - Motors TV have coverage on 25/1 7pm - 2am and 26/01 12pm - 8pm.

[Kchrpm]

10 Corvettes (including DPs), 10 458 Italias, GIGGITY.

[Fogelhund]

10 Corvettes (including DPs), 10 458 Italias, GIGGITY.

How can you legitimately keep a straight face calling a DP a "Corvette"?

[Kchrpm]

I can't. I just searched the word "Corvette" on that PDF. It just means "a vehicle I hope will defeat a different vehicle that doesn't say Corvette". It's incredibly shallow but it gives me a reason to care about the DPs, which I didn't have before, in addition to letting them not look like dog shit. I'm sure that was the entire point of the Corvette DP program, and, for me at least, it worked.

[Random]

:lol:

I'm reading some grumbling around the 'net about GM not releasing a customer C7. Might help their "we're a real sportscar!" image if they did just what the Porkas do. Might not. :)

[Fogelhund]

:lol:

I'm reading some grumbling around the 'net about GM not releasing a customer C7. Might help their "we're a real sportscar!" image if they did just what the Porkas do. Might not. :)

I wonder who is grumbling... C7.R's sold to customer in Europe, pending approval to allow them to run in GTE-AM... seems they are available, to the right people.

[Impreza]

I wonder who is grumbling... C7.R's sold to customer in Europe, pending approval to allow them to run in GTE-AM... seems they are available, to the right people.

How can they run in GTE-AM with a brand new car? AM needs to be a year old homologation, does it not?

[Random]

I wonder who is grumbling... C7.R's sold to customer in Europe, pending approval to allow them to run in GTE-AM... seems they are available, to the right people.

I guess they were focusing on the US market?

[Fogelhund]

How can they run in GTE-AM with a brand new car? AM needs to be a year old homologation, does it not?

..Yes, and yet....Larbre (http://sportscar365.com/wec/larbre-aiming-to-run-corvette-c7-r-in-2014/)

[Kchrpm]

GTE-Am class regulations prohibit current model year cars, although Porsche’s 911 RSR, which received significant end-of-season updates, will be allowed to race in both GTE-Pro and GTE-Am next year since the car raced in that spec in 2013.
Translation: They put new updates on their old car, so technically it's still an old car even if it's just like the new car?

[Kchrpm]

Am I the only one that didn't know about the new "slow zone" rules?

http://sportscar365.com/wec/new-safety-car-procedure-slow-zones-for-le-mans-revealed/


The French organizers revealed plans Friday for a new “slow zone” procedure, where only one section of the 8.5-mile circuit would be put under caution. However, unlike local yellows, cars would be not be allowed to exceed 60 kph in the designated zone.

[Impreza]

..Yes, and yet....Larbre (http://sportscar365.com/wec/larbre-aiming-to-run-corvette-c7-r-in-2014/)

Lots of "if"s and "could"s in that article.

Were the ACO to allow that it'd open a massive can of worms for everyone else in AM running year old homologations.

[Impreza]

Am I the only one that didn't know about the new "slow zone" rules?

http://sportscar365.com/wec/new-safety-car-procedure-slow-zones-for-le-mans-revealed/

It's been talked about on Midweek Motorsport for quite a while now. A zonal version of the Dubai 24H Code 60 and N24 yellow flag areas as I understand it.

[Kchrpm]

I think that can of worms may have been opened if Porsche is giving teams running year old equipment the kits to upgrade them to current equipment.

[Fogelhund]

I think that can of worms may have been opened if Porsche is giving teams running year old equipment the kits to upgrade them to current equipment.

Well.. Porsche introduced updates to the current GTE RSR at the last race of the year... therefore making those upgrades eligible for this year. They essentially ran this years car in one race last year, so they got around those rules.

[Fogelhund]

Translation: They put new updates on their old car, so technically it's still an old car even if it's just like the new car?

Incorrect translation. The car ran last year, therefore eligible, in last years trim... which is the same as this years...

[Kchrpm]

Ah, ok. I misunderstood the loophole they used. So in the future, everyone should use some version of their new car in the last Pro race, and then the next year Pro and Am can be step by step.

[Impreza]

Porsche did it by the books... a car is allowed one evolution of a homologation if it's done within the first year of said homologation.

Larbre running a C7, a car that hasn't even turned a wheel in the WEC, as an AM car is not at all the same thing.

[The359]

Basically Larbre just wants a waiver to get around the rule.

Of course, there is nothing stopping a team from running the C6.Rs either, there's plenty of them out there. GTLM is just too expensive for most teams to compete in against the factories.

[Random]

I guess they were focusing on the US market?

Here's one of the comments from another board:

Corvette Racing doesn't want customer cars or Corvettes in GTD as it'll "muddy"
the marketing water for the GTLM program. That's also the reason why you don't
see customer C6R's racing in the ALMS the last few years, but they sell old cars
to privateers in europe.

They got close to changing that right before the
merger was announced when a GTC gentleman was testing C6R's with Corvette Racing
because IMSA was planning to create a GT-Am class for 2013.

Callaway is
authorized to build the GT3 version of the C7R for FIA GT3 races, but I've been
told that IMSA will not homologate it to run in GTD (due to Corvette
Racing).


Reply from another poster that I think sums up a little of the fan frustration:

That's goofy.

Not fer nuthin but when I see a full-on factory effort
achieve success at that level I'm not all that impressed. With the rescources
available, they damned well oughta be.

But if you and your buddies were
able to buy a GT3 spec Corvette and went out and were successful that would mean
something to me.

[The359]

The Rolex Series Camaros are still eligible for GTD, but I have a feeling GM quietly told Stevenson to let that program end.

The last time Corvette had direct competition from another Corvette was Pacific Coast Motorsports running an old C5-R in the last years of the GT1 class. The team had zero support from GM.

There was also the case of Lou Giglotti's GT2 Corvette that GM snuffed before Corvette moved into the GT2 class.

[Fogelhund]

If a quality team came along, they probably would consider allowing them to race in IMSA with a C7R. But, the odds of such a thing are incredibly small. For practical purposes, they are right. However, you can buy a Corvette DP... anybody can. I'm not sure about the comment about the factory budget and expecting success... everyone is factory or semi-factory. Stevenson was told to park the Camaro... or more specifically, all funding was pulled from that effort. I can imagine the GTD thing is about control though. If they choose to run GTD here, I would imagine it will be a P&M car, not a Callaway. Also Lou raced against the GT2 Corvette Racing team for a season, and actually outqualified them once. What was snuffed, was Lou going to LM, as the car only had ALMS homologation.

[The359]

I know Callaway put out a press release recently stating they were putting their C7 GT3 car on hold because of the discussions between the ACO and FIA to merge GTE and GT3 into the same category, thus leaving Callaway out as Pratt & Miller would get the Corvette contract.

[Impreza]

https://www.dailysportscar.com/?p=21071

Here's a DSC article confirming basically that...

[tigeraid]

Once again, Magnus Racing, the goofiest mutherfuckers in motorsport.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0Wjwr5TPuc

[Freude am Fahren]

I, uh, I can't tell if they're being serious with that one...

[tigeraid]

A little of both I think. ;)

[tigeraid]

http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/


Memo to the TUDOR United SportsCar Championship: Image is absolutely everything.
DateMonday, January 20, 2014 at 10:19AM

By Peter M. De Lorenzo

Detroit. This isn't going to be a column about the competitiveness of the entries for this weekend's Daytona 24-hour (Rolex24), the opening round of the new TUDOR United SportsCar Championships race. It isn't going to be about whether or not the Chevrolet V8-powered Daytona Prototypes will dominate, or if the Ford EcoBoost V6 Turbo-powered entries will rise to the occasion and surprise everyone, or that the P2 cars will come good through speed and reliability, or even about the remote possibility that one of the GTLM entries could ascend to an overall win, either. That's all pretty much looking-glass stuff that means zero at this point.

What I'd like to focus on is the current status of sports car racing in this country itself. Despite my lifelong affinity for sports car racing - along with countless others either immersed in it or enthusiasts for it - this particular form of motorsport has been an afterthought for so long in the U.S. that it would be comical if it wasn't so depressing. Let's face it: After years of having two "major" road racing series working at odds with each other (ALMS vs. Grand-Am), along with the all-NASCAR-all-the-time stick and ball media infatuation that has been in play for over a decade now, major league sports car racing is nothing more than an afterthought, a mere blip on the radar screen.

I'm not going to regurgitate the nonexistent television viewing numbers or what other forms of motorsport eclipse sports car racing in the media landscape, because suffice to say it's a dismal pursuit. The fact that major league sports car racing exists at all in this country is due to the love of the True Believer participants, and the True Believers - yes, they exist - at the vehicle manufacturers who support and participate in it.

But as we all know, that isn't nearly enough. The unification of sports car racing that begins this coming weekend at Daytona is a pivotal juncture for the sport. This is, for lack of a better term, the last gasp for this form of motorsport in this country. If unification doesn't work to generate new fan interest over the next few seasons - I'm not talking about the enthusiasts who are already on board and clamoring for it but fans new to the game who might be attracted to it - then I truly fear for the sport's future.

Why? There are too many other marketing avenues vying for the attention of these manufacturers and too many opportunities to venture out in pursuit of "new" - meaning young - consumers who aren't necessarily interested in the idea of traditional sports car racing. And if you think that rote manufacturer interest in the sport of road racing will continue indefinitely, I'm sorry to break it to you, but it won't.

With all of this in mind then, the TUDOR USCC must do everything in its power to make sure that the image it presents this weekend is absolutely first rate. The look, feel, presentation and everything about it should make for compelling television. That's a difficult task, especially considering that the start and finish of a lengthy endurance race is about the only thing that new-to-the-sport consumers can grasp.

I will assure you, however, that if the broadcast production team gets lost in trying to explain the various classes, it will do more to turn casual viewers off than anything. It will be too confusing and thus uninteresting to the nanosecond-attention-span generation, and it will kill any shot that the ratings have of being more than nonexistent.

If this is truly a sport worthy of serious attention and interest, then it has to be presented in the very best way possible.

In short, image is everything.

I sincerely hope for the best.

[Random]

I'll play Devil's advocate a bit: why would it be bad if "professional" sports car racing went away? There are a lot more teams/drivers/crew involved in amateur sports car racing...I don't think the sport will die if Chip Ganassi and Roger Penske don't have yet another place to spend money racing cars. They could always come back o running SCCA events, like when Roger started. :)

[Kchrpm]

It would be bad because I couldn't watch them on TV anymore?

[Fogelhund]

DeLorenzo is completely out of touch, and no longer a worthy commentator.

[tigeraid]

DeLorenzo is completely out of touch, and no longer a worthy commentator.

Soooo.... He's lying about the ratings being terrible and the stands being empty? Can't say I disagree on those counts...

[Fogelhund]

Soooo.... He's lying about the ratings being terrible and the stands being empty? Can't say I disagree on those counts...

He didn't state anything about the stands being empty, but at a number of events they were anything but empty. The ratings have been terrible, but making a couple of correct statements any idiot could make doesn't change that the things he's been saying for the past several years weren't incredibly wide of the mark at times.

[Drachen596]

of course ratings on tv have sucked, they've chopped up coverage and didn't air it till the day AFTER the race on CBS or somewhere else.

i dont want to watch a recorded and heavily edited race of any kind.

[Fogelhund]

By the way... C7.R's now available for sale...

http://sportscar365.com/wec/corvette-to-offer-customer-c7-rs/

Better timing for the race.

http://www.livescoring.us/scoring.php

Qualifying over. DPs killed the P2s.

Viper take GTLM. GTD category looks good too.

[The359]

The Mazdas are out to lunch. Did have some nice talks with Tristan Nunez today though.

[Fogelhund]

The top two Audi's in GTD DQ'd from the times, start at the back of the grid. Third place in the P grid moved to the back too.

Graham Goodwin ‏@dsceditor 5m
Post qualifying tech failures give @Rolex24Hours grid a Corvette DP 1,2,3,4

https://www.dailysportscar.com/?p=21434

Post session dramas hit the GTD class as both the pole-setting #48 Paul Miller Racing R8 LMS and third fastest #46 Fall-Line Audi both fell foul of the rules, Pail Miller Racing having lowered the wickers on the rear wing endplates believing this was allowed under the rules. Apparently not! Fall-Line meanwhile failed on ride height. Both will start from the back of the grid.

That puts the #63 Scuderia Corsa Ferrari on pole courtesy of Toni Vilander’s earlier efforts with the sister car second on the grid and the #007 TRG/ AMR Aston Martin third.

Also in trouble was the third fastest car overall, the #78 Starworks Riley Dinan BMW, a ride height infringement and an ‘unauthorised aerodynamic device’ the reasons given for another runner to start from the unpopular end of the grid. It seems that exhaust system components supplied here at the track by Riley may be the issue here.

[Drachen596]

its really disappointing that this stuff is being put on Fox Sports 2 and not entirely on Fox Sports 1.

guess soccer and UFC is more important to Fox than racing.

[Kchrpm]

24 hour races are a really hard sell to people in hours 3 through 22, other than maybe a little bit of night action.

[Impreza]

Not if they are well presented.

In any case, the amount of people that do view in straight through for 24 hours is relatively small I'd wager... but having it on for the full duration is essential in keeping people interested as they can go away, do other things throughout the day/evening, come back to the race, catch up for a while, watch an hour or two... do other things, etc.

[Kchrpm]

Except networks don't care about keeping people interested in the race, they care in getting people watching whatever is on that channel, be it racing or soccer or UFC or whatever. They don't want you walking away for a couple hours, they want you sitting there during commercial breaks so you see what happens next.

And I don't think I've ever seen an endurance race presented well enough to have a casual fan of the sport want to stick around when there's very little happening on the track in the way of action other than higher classes getting waved by. Unless you're going to play pre-recorded, Top Gear style and quality content, with timing and scoring at the top and live coverage PIP'd I'm not really sure how you would.

[Drachen596]

i used to sit and watch the 24 hour LeMans coverage when they did it including the night stuff.

[Kchrpm]

Me too! The sounds, the pit stops, the in-car, that was all I needed. We, however, are not casual fans. The way I want to watch a 24 hour race would be horrible for a casual fan.

"Why are we sitting inside a Corvette for 24 hours, only listening to the in-car audio and the radio broadcast?"

[Impreza]

"Why are we sitting inside a Corvette for 24 hours, only listening to the in-car audio and the radio broadcast?"

Because Racecar!

D'uh! :rolleyes:

But seriously... that's very true. But really, it's the same with any sport, is it not? The "casual fan" does not glue themselves to a TV for start-to-finish coverage of anything longer than 30-60 minutes. When the Olympics are on the coverage is like 20+ hours a day (at least it feels that way) and people come and go from their TVs... watching a bit of this, a bit of that. If there's something on they're particularly into they'll stick around for a while, but if not, there are still plenty of people watching because it's the Olympics. Events like Daytona 24, LeMans, etc should be the same.

[tigeraid]

Well, whatever they did to equalize the rules must have worked, it's DPs on the front row:

http://media.racer.com/images/2014/01/23/01_538843.jpg

http://www.racer.com/rolex-24-alex-gurney-on-pole-at-daytona/article/330831/



GAINSCO/Bob Stallings Racing driver Alex Gurney won the pole today for the 52nd running of the Rolex 24 at Daytona. The 39-year-old Californian topped the TUDOR United SportsCar Championship field with a lap of 1:38.270, which was over two-tenths of a second clear of second-place qualifier Richard Westbrook, who had led both practice sessions earlier in the day.

“I'm really happy and excited about it all,” Gurney said. “When we pulled the fuel out the time came and it was nice to put one in there.”

Gurney's GAINSCO-sponsored team is only confirmed for five races this season. He admitted securing today's pole position at Daytona could only help their chances of adding more events to the schedule.

“It's been a difficult offseason,” he admitted. “Big thanks to Bob Stallings and everybody on the team. We worked through Christmas and New Years … this means a lot to all of us and our entire team. We're always trying to find more ways to keep going – so starting well and finishing well is the best place to be.”

It was Gurney's sixth career pole in American sports car racing, and his second pole in the Rolex 24 after qualifying in the top spot in 2007.

Westbrook's time of 1:38.487 in his No. 90 Spirit of Daytona Corvette DP secured the second position on Saturday's starting grid. Scott Mayer made his final qualification lap count in the No. 78 Starworks Motorsports Riley DP with a time of 1:38.525, which elevated his team to the third overall position.

[Kchrpm]

The Olympics are a VERY different animal. In addition to just the generic time suck watching, people also watch specific events of that they are really interested in. And there are multiple events going on at one time, across multiple channels. They try to find out what time some event is and what channel and, if they can, make sure to watch it all the way through, including the commercials.

That's not a thing for 24 hour races. The only major events that will happen on a predetermined schedule are the start and the finish. So a casually interested fan would watch the start, go away at some random commercial break during the first hour or so, and then come back at the end, maybe watching a few bits of night coverage. Networks are just building that in, now, by switching to coverage of something else.

You also (typically) have one channel of coverage (though with teams and websites having raw video coming from in cars, that can help).

Back when it was Speed, a racing-focused channel, I didn't like it. Now that it's just a general sports network, it's the right thing to do for their target audience. Even better that they can put it on some other platform with straight-through coverage.

I honestly kind of prefer web coverage of races, anyway. You know you're getting the full thing, commercials aren't as intrusive, you can often pick your own coverage (so I can just sit in the Corvettes). Web coverage plus highlight packages and live interviews or whatever when TV coverage comes in actually works really well for me.

[Random]

The web coverage you describe kinda seems more like how I watch a race in person. I find some place good to watch the start (first corner always fun, even in enduros), stay there for a while, wander over to another corner, stay there for a while, wander through the pits, find some food, find another corner...etc).

[Kchrpm]

With the added benefit of having live timing and scoring off to the side and Radio LeMans in another tab so you know what's going on.

[Kchrpm]

Also, when you're really attached to a particular team/driver, it lets you really connect when you can ride along with them. At the Indy 500 last year you could ride along with I believe any car, and hear it's radio. I watched the main race on TV, muted, with Marco's in-car cameras (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RGZ2YysyJng/UaJVx4AWLkI/AAAAAAACzho/GEfvIIFpcak/w1044-h587-no/Fullscreen+capture+5262013+23322+PM.jpg) and radio on my computer. I heard all the discussions of strategy and line and the other drivers, when his dad was trying to calm him down, and then I was riding right along with him when he lost control and spun into the wall, yelling "No Marco NOOO!"

Fast forward 5 or 10 years and they'll have an Oculus Rift-like device and be able to look around the entire car in live 360 degree, 3D video.

[Fogelhund]

Well, whatever they did to equalize the rules must have worked, it's DPs on the front row:


Isn't the idea of equalization supposed to make things... umm equal? Hardly equal, and not even all that close. The Corvettes are way ahead it appears, Fords about six tenths off the pace, P2's over a second off the pace. Not only is it not equal, it looks to be an abysmal failure.

Klaus Graf on BoP --> https://soundcloud.com/sportscar365/klaus-graf-on-p2-dp-bop

"Now at the hotel chilling out before the big race. The DP cars are just too fast for the P2 cars, the gap is big and unless they have issues we will be fighting for the P2 class battle. Still, it is a long race and you just never give up." - David Brabham


Here are a couple of streams that "might" work for the race, if you don't get coverage.

http://stream.speedtv.com/rolex24
http://www.justin.tv/nascar49speed
http://www.mrn.com/?homepage=true
http://www.wiziwig.tv/

[Fogelhund]

The top two Audi's in GTD DQ'd from the times, start at the back of the grid. Third place in the P grid moved to the back too.



Post session dramas hit the GTD class as both the pole-setting #48 Paul Miller Racing R8 LMS and third fastest #46 Fall-Line Audi both fell foul of the rules, Pail Miller Racing having lowered the wickers on the rear wing endplates believing this was allowed under the rules. Apparently not! Fall-Line meanwhile failed on ride height. Both will start from the back of the grid.

They changed their mind on the penalty for the #48 car, so back to pole and head of the GTD grid.

[Kchrpm]

12 streaming in-car cameras: http://www.imsa.com/camera/united-sportscar/race-central

[Alan P]

That was a BIG hit. :( front of the DP looked badly pushed in.

[Freude am Fahren]

Damn, justin.tv channel got shutdown. No FS2 here at work (maybe not at home either, IDK).

oh snap, didn't know Fox had this: http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsportsgo/

No way my laptop will make it through to the end of my shift though.

[tigeraid]

Horrific wreck, I hope Gidley's okay. Typical Amateur driver bullshit mistake, as usual. Your car dies, you GET IT THE FUCK OFF THE ROAD. The car was still rolling and he was right next to the grass.

[Alan P]

According to Twitter Gidley is awake and talking. No indications of injuries though.

[Freude am Fahren]

Just saw the wreck. Wow. That was really bad. I can't imagine Gidley doen't have some severe injuries to his legs. As bad as that would be, I think it'd be quite a good outcome. Looks like it was a bit off center, with the brunt of the impact on the left hand side, which side is the driver in that chassis?

[FaultyMario]

http://escuderiatelmex.com/transmision/

http://es.vipboxam.co/motorsports/203824/1/united-sportscar-championship-rolex-24-daytona-international-speedway-live-stream-online.html

[The359]

Gidley was blinded by the sun going down that straight, he never knew the Ferrari was there, and probably never saw the slow vehicle flags.

[Phil_SS]

That was the most vicious accident I have ever seen. Just brutal. Hopefully everyone recovers fully.

[Freude am Fahren]

Both were awake and communicating when they went to the hospital. Malucelli has a severe concussion (and no doubt some bad bumps and bruises I would imagine), and will stay for observation. Gidley had surgery on his left arm and leg, and will have surgery on an "unstable fracture" in his back, though no other information was given on his specific injuries.

Source: Jalopnik (http://jalopnik.com/memo-gidley-matteo-malucelli-injured-but-alive-after-h-1509232197)

[Reynard]

I don't think the sun was an issue. He simply had the slow Ferrari screened by the Brazilian colored Ferrari, he never saw it before impact. I immediately thought of this;

http://youtu.be/-_cc9MXdE6A?t=18m31s

of course Mario didn't have an excuse as the stopped car had been there for many laps already, he simply forgot.

[Godson]

Holy shit.



Thoughts and prayers to all involved. That is the scariest accident I have ever seen.

[Fogelhund]

You know what... De Lorenzo has missed the mark in most of his work the last year and a half.. but hit the nail on the head here.

http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/2014/1/27/the-nascar-ization-of-major-league-sports-car-racing-a-bitte.html

[Impreza]

Couldn't agree more.

Thank goodness for other racing around the world. Never likely to get to see it live, but at least there are ways to watch proper racing.

[CudaMan]

I've watched the Rolex24 live on TV or the internet as often as possible. It was very different this time being there in the paddock and on the pit wall. The disadvantage being it's tougher to follow a lot of the stories in the different classes. But worth it. :) I've dreamed of going to this race in person for years.

Since Friday it seemed there were plenty of people in the infield and paddock. Not many in the stadium seats. The access fans have to get up close with the cars and teams is pretty incredible. I saw several people there I knew - autocrossers, amateur racers, The359, etc. :)

Gidley's crash looked horrible. For a while it looked like he was slumped over the wheel, which wouldn't make any sense unless the harness failed or slipped off the HANS somehow. Good to hear he survived but I wonder if he will race again. It seemed like the Gainsco team was really pushing early on.

The new C7R is thunderous, especially in pit lane at lower revs.

Also, it was effingham cold at night, and all day Wed-Fri. Four layers (two of them jackets) weren't enough sometimes. Not what I expected from FL!

[The359]

I was curious actually, what were you actually doing for Muscle Milk?

[CudaMan]

Observing, being a gopher if needed, etc. Nothing crazy. :)

[Freude am Fahren]

Update on Gidley via Autoweek: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20140128/UNITEDSPORTSCAR/140129767


Doctors immediately addressed the left leg and left arm injuries by completing an almost four-hour surgery shortly after Gidley's admittance into the hospital. On Monday evening, doctors stabilized and repaired the compression fracture in Gidley's lower back in an extended surgery.

“The objective is to get Memo into a stabilized condition so that the doctors can figure out what all the issues are,” team owner Bob Stallings said. “We are not at that place yet, and doctors are still evaluating him. The procedures needed to stabilize him aren't finalized yet.”

Still a ways to go.

[Godson]

Not good.

[GB]

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/acb1f7cfee7e4fa3473b1c6bed2362088b6ab9d5/c=61-0-3748-2769&r=x513&c=680x510/local/-/media/Indianapolis/Indianapolis/2014/01/26//1390748663005-IMSA-Daytona-24-Hours-Auto-Racing-DBR119-WEB119101.jpg

[Fogelhund]

The frame of the car completely collapsed, and is bent all over the place. Terrible. Lucky to survive that one.

[Impreza]

It's pointless speculation at this point, but I wonder how much differently he would have fared in a carbon tub, FIA crash-tested LMP.

[Godson]

I would disagree about pointless speculation.

When talking safety, nothing is pointless. I would be interested to see the resulting infor though.

[Fogelhund]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152209668297463&set=a.10152209667902463.1073741838.107962202462&type=1&theater

There is no question in my mind that a Closed Topped LMP, with a full Carbon Tub would not have collapsed like this DP did. As to what injuries he might have sustained, that is still pretty speculative.

[GB]

Am I missing something?

I thought the driver's safety cocoon held up just as designed.

http://i.imgur.com/5heUd3s.jpg

To me it looks like the front clip disintigrated and started to break away... but the cockpit is pretty intact. I'm not an engineer... maybe those with some experience can point out where it failed. Yes, he has injuries... but he's alive! I would venture a guess that the g-force experienced contributed heavily in those injuries.

[Phil_SS]

You know what... De Lorenzo has missed the mark in most of his work the last year and a half.. but hit the nail on the head here.

http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/2014/1/27/the-nascar-ization-of-major-league-sports-car-racing-a-bitte.html

Totally agree. But not unexpected. I figured that the heads of NASCAR wouldn't be able to accept the DPs being beaten and have set them up to win. Shame, I was really excited for this series but it looks like it will be just as big a clusterfuck as NASCAR.

[Fogelhund]

Am I missing something?

I thought the driver's safety cocoon held up just as designed.


Look at your first picture, the roll cage collapsed. I could give you a few links from Audi accidents at LM the last few years, with similar G-Force that drivers walked away from.

http://youtu.be/YAu3pMgmvpU

[Impreza]

Am I missing something?

I thought the driver's safety cocoon held up just as designed.

Held up? Looks smushed to me... not "held up".

Maybe I misremember McNish's accident (anyone, please feel free to correct me), but I'm pretty sure they later pointed out that when the safety workers got to his wreck they were able to open the doors. In Rockenfellers crash, he was able to get out of the car himself. Albeit, neither one of those was the same as this one, but all 3 were extremely violent, but the two LMP drivers came out in much better shape, and neither had to be cut from their vehicle.

[FaultyMario]

I can't honestly look at Gidley's crash. What a clusterfuck. Where to begin?

[GB]

Look at your first picture, the roll cage collapsed.

Not trying to be difficult, just trying to see what you guys are seeing.

In my first photo, they've already cut the upper portion of the roll cage away. I see some remaining ends of tubing, but I don't see how THAT photo shows it has collapsed. Not fair looking at a cage that has already been sawzalled to determine it's integrity.

Tough to tell her because of the deformed bodywork, but I guess it's possible that it has deformed some, maybe pushed in at the front, and thereby buckled upward in the upper portion.

219

I'm just not seeing the driver's space as being critically compromised.

And I'm not denying that another car designed for another series could be safer or stronger. I just don't like, personally, of laying out a blanket statement that implies that all DP cars are unsafe by design. Every collision is different.

[GB]

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=220&d=1391148408

Really difficult to tell.

But here's my "official" findings ;) :

The driver's protection was NOT compromised due to safety cage failure.

It WAS compromised by other factors, however. Mainly the lack of a dedicated crash/crush structure at the front. The cars rely on the front splitter, air and water ducting, suspension, and aero bodywork to dissipate energy. That's not enough. It allowed objects to be forced into the driver's space, and also transferred too much kinetic energy to the driver's body, the combination of which caused Gidley's injuries.

So, overall, I agree that LMP cars are most likely safer. I don't agree on "rollcage collapse", though.

Just my opinion... often wrong.

[The359]

This gives a better view of how bent the cockpit is.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/q80/s720x720/149321_10152209668497463_1797523014_n.jpg

I'd point out that the entire purpose of the Daytona Prototypes and their ugly design was that Grand-Am wanted a larger, safer cockpits for the drivers, including a chassis tube down the center of the front window that LMPs do not have. It was only in 2012 that the cars were modified with smaller cockpits, even though they still retain that central tube. The idea behind the DPs was that, with Grand-Am running so many rovals, they needed something similar to NASCAR to hold up to concrete walled ovals.

DPs have also never gone through a crash test certification like an F1 or LMP car. However NASCAR did confiscate the Gainsco car and it is at their Tech Center in Charlotte for investigation, so hopefully some improvements will be made.

[Godson]

The photo that 359 shared is a great one to show the large amount of deformation that happened. It is very clear the upper roll cage tube were deformed a very large amount, several inches just from the visual guess on the side that had taken the most force.

Did the car save his life, you bet. This could have been much worse. But I would say the crash structure designed on the DPs is not safe enough for the speeds they are now able to reach.

[Fogelhund]

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/acb1f7cfee7e4fa3473b1c6bed2362088b6ab9d5/c=61-0-3748-2769&r=x513&c=680x510/local/-/media/Indianapolis/Indianapolis/2014/01/26//1390748663005-IMSA-Daytona-24-Hours-Auto-Racing-DBR119-WEB119101.jpg

GB...look at the top of the roll cage. It shouldn't be bent at that angle.

[Godson]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7144/6648536919_cdeef71dbd_o.jpg


This is of the same car. The roof line is the main area of concern. If you look at the fuel filler as a stationary landmark it shows a lot of cockpit cage deformation.

[Godson]

http://sports.racer.net/chassis/fusion/images/fcr06/frame.jpg

For the sake of conversation.

[tigeraid]

Is the "freak" nature of the accident not a factor here? He rear-ended a car at 130+ mph when it was basically not moving. And since it was a direct rear collision, it was one of those "went under the back of the car" situations. I know they have to try and plan for EVERYTHING, but generally hitting prone cars at that speed doesn't happen often, and when it DOES, they're often sideways on the track and it's a door hit.

At least in NASCAR, the roof hoop is designed in mind with the fact that those fucking cars sometimes get upside down and airborne. In fact this sort of wreck DID happen to Ryan Newman when Carl Edwards' airborne landed on TOP of his hood and windshield at Talladega, at 180+. So I think the argument that "tube frames are stupid" doesn't really work here.

I'm not saying improvements can't be made, but I think the driver's pod cage did the best it could considering the really WEIRD circumstances. But they could definitely use an Earnhardt Bar from the front of the halo bar down to the centre of the floor. I think that alone would have taken the brunt of that impact.

[Godson]

I am not saying tube cage cars aren't or can't be safe, I enjoy the mixture of the design philosophies. I am saying that for a multiple class race car, a collision like this is going to happen. I am shocked it hasn't happened sooner than this in the previous years of multiple class racing.

My point is that for that amount of driver cell deformation, something was definitely overlooked or did not meet the minimum requirements of manufacturing/welding.


Was it a hard hit? You bet your ass. Was it a freak accident? I don't feel so.


The fact that he went under the car might have saved his life by slowing down the transfer of energy. I am eagerly looking forward to seeing what comes from the chassis analysis etc.


The 3D chassis photo I linked left me with a few questions. One of which is the lack of the roof not being boxed in some way baffles me. The other, like you mentioned is the lack of the Earnhardt bar which is known to be a very safe implementation.



I just have a lot of questions regarding the design of it all.

[tigeraid]

Well I will say this: as much shit as NASCAR gets wrong, one aspect they get RIGHT is putting money and time and effort into improving safety. So I would think things are looking up due to this.

[Fogelhund]

Well I will say this: as much shit as NASCAR gets wrong, one aspect they get RIGHT is putting money and time and effort into improving safety. So I would think things are looking up due to this.


Indeed, they've announced that for 2017 when they change chassis they won't be using tube frames any more, instead going with Carbon Tubs. Tube Frames aren't stupid, but they are dated technology. They aren't unsafe, but they aren't as safe as current Carbon Tubs either... Now having said that, the Carbon Tubs have come a long way since the DP concept was created, so it isn't as if they chose the wrong route originally. I don't know if I posted it, but in 2011 Mike Rockenfeller hit a guard rail head on at 200mph. Now the energy wasn't quite the same as this, as he had some pivot to his direction as well.. but he got out and walked away before the marshalls even got there.

[tigeraid]

http://www.racer.com/imsa-memo-gidley-recovery-update/article/332100/


Those who've gone to see Memo Gidley in the Halifax hospital in Daytona Beach, Fla., reckon the open-wheel and sports car ace has a long road to recovery. Some have said it will take the rest of 2014 to mend his broken bones and complete rehabilitation. Whatever the duration proves to be, it's clear the Californian's fitness and high-octane spirit will help to expedite the process.

Gidley's TUDOR United SportsCar Championship team owner Bob Stallings has kept RACER abreast of Memo's progress since his nightmarish crash last Saturday during the Rolex 24 at Daytona, and shared an update on Friday that's both funny and heartwarming.

“Yesterday afternoon, Memo was having a conversation with me, and obviously he's inquisitive about what's going on with him,” said Stallings. “Although he was having some good relative clarity, his short-term memory hasn't fully returned yet. You can have a good talk with him and he can remember a lot of things before the crash, but doesn't really have much recall from the race on.

“So we're talking about what happened and he stops and says in a totally serious frame of mind, ‘You know, Bob, I just wanted to tell you…I don't think I'm going to be ready for Sebring… (Laughs) I thought that was pretty funny. He's such a thoughtful and responsible guy, he wanted me to know well in advance that I might not be able to count on him for Sebring, and I thanked him for that update…”

Gidley's broken left leg and arm were reported in the aftermath of the crash, along with the fracture to his lower back, but the damage to his left foot, which has not received as much coverage, was the subject of an operation this morning.

“He had a surgery – went in around 8:30 and came out about two hours later and that was to repair some broken bones in his left foot and heel area," Stallings explained. "We'd known about that from the beginning, but it was a lower priority to the other surgeries the doctors wanted to get done first. The surgeon said everything was successful. Memo's been in a little bit of pain today, so he's been on some sedatives so he could sleep most of the day.

“As far as we know, he's finished his ordeal of surgeries and it wouldn't surprise me if tomorrow or Sunday he'll get moved from the intensive care unit to a regular room. Then they'll continue to monitor him and his possibility for travel. It could come the end of next week, but could be as early as Wednesday or Thursday. We don't have a place picked out yet, but he'll head to Northern California.”

Stallings also spoke on the kind of support Gidley has received from the greater NASCAR and TUDOR Championship community while in the ICU.
“The whole NASCAR organization has been, honestly, just terrific," he continued. "From Jim France, Mike Helton, Ed Bennett; the organization is really attentive to help him and coordinate everything to get him back on his feet. Jim comes over every morning and sits with me in the waiting room – sometimes for an hour, sometimes for two-and-a-half hours – hanging out and keeping us company. That's been really inspiring.

“Memo's mom and girlfriend are here, and they're naturally concerned about Memo's future, and Jim's been really supportive for them. It's good to see someone with resources is making sure Memo's being looked after. We've had a few drivers come to visit, but I've been discouraging that a bit because he's still in intensive car. He's appreciated it…I'm not sure he'll remember it, but it's been pretty neat for him to have such an outpouring of care.”

[Freude am Fahren]

Good news, overall.

On another not, there will be a big BoP change before Sebring, apparently, trying to bring the P2's closer to the DP's (or the other way around, really).

[The359]

I think the only problem is that the DPs will have diffusers at Sebring, leaving a rather untested element to unbalance the BoP.

[Freude am Fahren]

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20140224/UNITEDSPORTSCAR/140229901?utm_source=Alert20140224&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=missedarticle1more&utm_content=20140224-Gainsco/Bob-Stallings-Racing-pulling-out-of-IMSA-Tudor-United-SportsCar-Championship-for-2014&utm_campaign=awAlert

Bob Stallings Gainsco suspend all operations for 2014.


It is with great regret that we will have to suspend operations for the balance of the 2014 season,” said team owner Bob Stallings. “Since Daytona, priority one for us has been on Memo's recovery. Everyone on the team has been focused on his care and comfort, and it has meant the world to see such support from the fans and the racing community at large. Even though Memo has a long road ahead, the worst is behind him, and it has allowed us to step back and take a look at the program at large. With both the personal and economic strain this has put on us, we feel it's in the best interest of everyone to sit out this year, with a firm focus on a return in 2015.

[Godson]

bittersweet.