PDA

View Full Version : Challenger Hellcat vs Shelby GT350



KillerB
August 28th, 2015, 08:02 PM
Discuss.

Godson
August 28th, 2015, 08:28 PM
Gt350

Kchrpm
August 29th, 2015, 04:38 AM
I'm a GT350 type of person.

Day-to-Day:
In normal use, neither would get anywhere near their potential. While the Challenger is a larger vehicle, I'm guessing the driver comfort level in the non-R GT350 is quite similar, even with a more track-tuned suspension.

Weekend:
Unless I have a group 3-4 large friends that I go around with, the larger backseat area does not present a major benefit.

Amateur Drag Racing:
The Hellcat may put down bigger numbers, but the GT350 will likely be nearly as entertaining

Track Days:
The GT350 experience will walk all over the Hellcat experience at HPDEs.

Of course these are all just assumptions based purely on articles and videos of other people driving them. I've not even seen a GT350 in person, and not sat in either.

From a "it doesn't really matter but it's out there" perspective, I think the Hellcat attracts a buyer who just wants to talk about the horsepower number and floor it on a highway every once in a while, while the GT350 is going to attract people who are more interested in driving than talking.

samoht
August 29th, 2015, 05:13 AM
What Kchrpm said - the Shelby sounds like an attempt to make a Pony car that's relatively light and wieldy, whereas the Challenger sounds it's going in more of a muscle car direction, with big numbers.

Now there are two ways to look at this - one would be to say the GT350 sounds more fun, whereas the other would be that neither base car is small or light enough to be a true 'sports car', so better to have the Challenger because it's playing to it's strengths, and buy a real sports car from, say, Porsche or Mazda if you want to have fun in the corners / on track.

Personally I find the GT350 more interesting, especially the flat-plane crank V8 that could well be powering the next resurrection of the TVR badge.

thesameguy
August 29th, 2015, 08:14 AM
x3 Well put.

novicius
August 29th, 2015, 03:29 PM
For California, GT350.

For Florida, Hellcat.

:lol:

neanderthal
August 29th, 2015, 06:30 PM
NC Miata with LS-X swap.

Miata is always the answer.

Godson
August 29th, 2015, 06:40 PM
NC Miata with LS-X swap.

Miata is always the answer.

That'd set you back about the same. I'll take the flat plane crank.

KillerB
August 29th, 2015, 06:44 PM
THE PRICE FOR THE BASIC CONVERSION IS $49,995, AND INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING PARTS AND LABOR. THE CAR ITSELF IS NOT INCLUDED.

The price of a turnkey car has gone up $15k in the past few years. No thanks.

Plus, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that no CARB-legal headers fit, so no Habu in CA. :(

Rikadyn
August 29th, 2015, 07:05 PM
Charger Hellcat.

KillerB
August 29th, 2015, 07:29 PM
Auto only, and a four door, which I have no need for. Not interested.

tigeraid
August 31st, 2015, 08:07 AM
If I could get a Charger Hellcat with a stick, that would be my answer.

Despite the engine, the Challenger is ugly and top-heavy and massively overweight. And an automatic. Not interested.

GT350's engine is un-befuckin-leavible, but the Mustang is ugly.

The answer is: Chevy SS with a stick and whatever the highest-horsepower LS-motor currently is.

The359
August 31st, 2015, 08:20 AM
The Challenger Hellcat comes in manual, tigaraid.

Kchrpm
August 31st, 2015, 08:34 AM
The answer is: Chevy SS with a stick and whatever the highest-horsepower LS-motor currently is.

:up:

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/lsx-454-r.html

http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Vehicles/Performance/Engine_Detail/LSX/LSX454R/2013-chevrolet-performance-lsx454r-enginedetail-mh-1280x551.jpg

thesameguy
August 31st, 2015, 08:48 AM
What is that ridiculous looking contraption on top?

Kchrpm
August 31st, 2015, 08:51 AM
Power amplification multiplier.

thesameguy
August 31st, 2015, 08:55 AM
I guess that's why it's the most powerful...

KillerB
September 6th, 2015, 08:59 AM
Let's see:

- Three responses of "GT350, because racecar"
- One expensive engine swap candidate
- Two suggestions (not including the last one) of vehicles not mentioned by the OP
- Complete digression by the second page

Verdict? Yep, still the GTXF. :lol:

novicius
September 6th, 2015, 10:39 AM
GT350 because California!

Kchrpm
September 6th, 2015, 11:57 AM
No one said "because racecar," I just think it would be more enjoyable in day to day and weekend warrior/roadtrip situations. The drag racing/HPDE thing is just being thorough, either would be entertaining at both but I think the GT350 would have a higher average enjoyment.

I thought the GT350R was the hardcore, stripped out racecar model. Unless you're just using that one for weekend warrior duty, I'd go GT350 over GT350R, because why daily drive a racecar?

thesameguy
September 6th, 2015, 01:32 PM
Yeah, x2.

If I am going to get the boatiest boat I'm just going to get a boat, not a 2-door boat. The Hellcat's credentials are looks mean and goes fast in a straight line*, neither of which I care about even a little. The GT350 offers acceptable road manners, great looks, credibility, great sound, and the potential for awesome track days. It's about as close to the ideal car as I could come up with.


* I don't care if it actually can turn, it's 4,500lbs. I'd take a Cherokee SRT or a HPE650 any day of the week.

KillerB
September 12th, 2015, 01:41 PM
I'll just leave this right here. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKiCsYypMZo) The unholy offspring of a 302 and an F20C?

Godson
September 12th, 2015, 02:55 PM
Unf.....

Kchrpm
September 12th, 2015, 04:19 PM
:up: exhaust mics and that car

thesameguy
September 12th, 2015, 04:25 PM
Hellwhat?

LHutton
September 14th, 2015, 01:45 AM
I'd go Hellcat* because it's cooler and I'd be unlikely to max-out the handling abilities of either car on the road, nor would I try too.






*If I didn't live in a country with ridiculous fuel prices.

KillerB
September 4th, 2016, 06:47 PM
Unf.

1925

dodint
September 5th, 2016, 07:20 AM
I've mentioned it in chat a few times that the Challenger is the only new car that has captured my interest. I'm not one for new cars as a rule, but my mind keeps wandering back to the Challenger. It's really exactly what I would build if I were making a car from scratch: large coupe, unapologetic styling, big motors.

I drove one for a month last year and it was a really comfortable travel car. Had no problem taking it on vacation and cruising the interstate. It's more a challenge (heh!) in town but I don't live or work in a city so that's not a problem for me. I had no problem navigating it around downtown St. Paul, but the hotel had valet. :P

Lots of Hellcats hitting the used market with less than 2,000 miles on them. That's what I would do if I were serious. Let some rich redneck take the $20,000 depreciation and pick up a low mileage car that's a year or two old.

One of the problems with the Challenger is that it has ten different trim offerings and I tend to get lost in all of it. Maybe I'll get the 392 Hemi Scat Pack Shaker since it combines four of them into one. ;)

Godson
September 5th, 2016, 09:30 AM
Only 20k if you don't account for the dealer mark up.

Kchrpm
September 5th, 2016, 09:34 AM
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=436684137

$53k, 36k miles, never titled because it was a "Chrysler Test Unit." How could you not?

dodint
September 5th, 2016, 09:37 AM
As a concrete example, my credit union has this 2015 Hellcat in it's car buying service for $57K with 2000 miles available right now. https://usaa2.secure.zag.com/used-cars-for-sale/listing/2C3CDZC91FH718858/2015-dodge-challenger/

I've seen them as low as $50K even but they've been snatched up.

KillerB
September 5th, 2016, 08:41 PM
I've mentioned it in chat a few times that the Challenger is the only new car that has captured my interest. I'm not one for new cars as a rule, but my mind keeps wandering back to the Challenger. It's really exactly what I would build if I were making a car from scratch: large coupe, unapologetic styling, big motors.

I drove one for a month last year and it was a really comfortable travel car. Had no problem taking it on vacation and cruising the interstate. It's more a challenge (heh!) in town but I don't live or work in a city so that's not a problem for me. I had no problem navigating it around downtown St. Paul, but the hotel had valet. :P

I can confirm that it's an excellent road trip vehicle - I covered about 2,700 miles in 3 days in mine, and had no real aches or pains or any kind of discomfort. I've taken two hour drives in other cars that hurt more.

It is a pain in the ass to park, but it's probably worse for me than the average person because I am short (5'4") but I also don't like raising the seat as I prefer more of a legs-out driving position, at least in something like this. Still, it's a coupe the size of a Tahoe. :D


One of the problems with the Challenger is that it has ten different trim offerings and I tend to get lost in all of it. Maybe I'll get the 392 Hemi Scat Pack Shaker since it combines four of them into one. ;)

It used to be really simple:

SE/SXT - V6
R/T - 5.7L V8
SRT8 - 6.1L V8, then a 6.4L V8

Now, yeah, it's a bit more complicated:

SXT/SXT Plus - V6
Various R/Ts (non-Scat Pack) - 5.7L V8
Scat Pack - 6.4L V8
SRT 392 - 6.4L V8
SRT Hellcat - 6.2L supercharged V8

Basically, the Scat Pack versions are the 6.4L without the track-oriented suspension and brakes of the SRT 392. I think the Scat Pack variants are the sweet spot of the lineup. I don't get the point of the track-oriented version without the supercharged engine in something this large and heavy. In real terms, I don't think the Hellcat would cost you any more than an SRT 392 over the course of, say, 5 years of ownership, because I firmly believe that you'll get at least $14k (the price difference between the SRT 392 and Hellcat) more on trade for a Hellcat than you will on the SRT 392.

My wife has made me an interesting proposition. Since we both work at the same campus and carpool three days a week, we really only need one newish car. She is still driving her 1999 Dodge Durango with 230,000 miles she bought new right out of nursing school. After we buy a house next year, she would really love a Hellcat to be that one car, on one condition - that it be an automatic. :|

If I had to have an automatic in a performance car, it would be this one. Plus, this would free up garage space for a sports car (Mazda RX-7, Honda S2000, ND Miata, etc.)

Godson
September 5th, 2016, 08:56 PM
I...I...I...I just can't support the idea of a hellcat with the auto. Please no.

TheBenior
September 5th, 2016, 11:55 PM
I'm not particularly offended by an automatic in any Challenger. Maybe because I view it as more of a drag car than I do the Mustang and Camaro.

dodint
September 6th, 2016, 04:26 AM
Nice insight, KB. Thanks.

If I were in a position where I had to get an auto I'd back down from the Hellcat and just scale back to the Scat Pack. If you don't intend to ever take in on a track you might as well get the softer suspension too.

My wife has given up on driving manual. I taught her in the M6 but she had a hard time with the E36 gearbox for some reason and is completely gun shy of them now. I've resigned myself to the fact that our garage will be half full of rolling couches w/slushboxes (E60, for now) in perpetuity.

Kchrpm
September 6th, 2016, 06:34 AM
Challenger/Charger update info: http://www.autonews.com/article/20160905/OEM04/160909990/dodge-taps-the-brakes-on-big-changes


Charger: Last refreshed in 2014, the Charger will be redesigned onto the Giorgio platform in 2018. Its overall size will stay about the same, but the redesign is expected to shed over 400 pounds from the current model. Until then, Dodge will produce occasional Charger buzz models, including the return of the Charger Daytona this year.

Challenger: Dodge will introduce its first all-wheel-drive Challenger, called the GT AWD, this fall, and a wide-body, Hellcat-powered version in 2017 called the Challenger ADR. The Challenger will be redesigned onto the Giorgio platform in 2018, when it will lose an expected 500 pounds from the current model.

Barracuda: A two-door convertible that will share the Charger/Challenger platform will debut in 2021.

Phil_SS
September 6th, 2016, 07:10 AM
They are just taking a heaping helping dump all over history with that AWD Challenger.
http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/No-Meme-The-Office-03.jpg

balki
September 6th, 2016, 07:40 AM
why? AWD + A/T = easy 10's all day
Even after shedding 500lb the Hellcat will still weigh over 4000 lbs (has a car ever lost 500lbs and still been too heavy?)

dodint
September 6th, 2016, 07:50 AM
I would welcome a platform redesign, it would nicely bracket the good years from the not good years. BMW is great for this as well, makes it easy to focus your enthusiasm.

2ndMoparMan
September 6th, 2016, 10:06 AM
AWD bugs me a bit, but losing 500 lbs off the Challenger makes me happy. Car always was WAY overweight. This will help. Now, if they can just get the proportions right on the styling...

dodint
September 6th, 2016, 10:14 AM
Losing 500lbs while adding AWD would be impressive.

Kchrpm
September 6th, 2016, 10:33 AM
I didn't read it as both happening, I read it as AWD is coming to the current platform, and then they're going to switch platforms and lose 500 lbs. Whether or not AWD is available on that new platform isn't discussed.

dodint
September 6th, 2016, 10:54 AM
Oh.

Boo.

Well, of Ash's many complaints about the Challenger, one was that it was RWD and didn't like the snow. So, I'll taunt her with the AWD version for a minute.

It really didn't like the snow, though. There was about an inch on our driveway and the car refused to back out of the garage onto it. As soon as the tires hit the snow the TC stopped the wheels dead. I had to drive all the way home from work and back it out of the garage for her one morning, I didn't have sense enough to think to tell her to try the TCS before I left. It was really astounding the way the car refused to move, though. I've had dogs less stubborn about going out in the cold to conduct business.

balki
September 6th, 2016, 01:29 PM
Was it the car or the tires?
Drove old box Caprices and Crown Vics in the snow, and I have to believe they had worse F:R weight distribution, but definitely not fat summer tires.

dodint
September 6th, 2016, 01:52 PM
It was the TCS system locking up the rear brakes when it slipped. Just a weird oddity, it drove fine in the snow with the TCS off. You'd think TCS wouldn't be so strict under 5mph, but, alas.

Godson
September 6th, 2016, 02:31 PM
Alas, it is Chrysler

KillerB
September 6th, 2016, 02:56 PM
No problem - I've lived with this car longer than just about any other I've had - 57,000 miles and 5 1/2 years. I've had literally one problem with it, the seal at the front edge of the hood ripped. It was replaced under warranty. The car has been flawless otherwise. I can't recommend it more highly for someone who wants a traditional muscle car experience in a reliable, modern vehicle.

The HP90 (ZF-designed, Chrysler-modified and built, and branded as Torqueflite 8) seems to be a very robust transmission, and well-tuned for performance driving. I think that someone who is into track driving might prefer it to the manual. I, however, want the car for the feel, and so I'm just not sure whether I'd enjoy the automatic.

These are 2017 problems for me, though. Buying a property next year is priority #1 - all other decisions are predicated on that situation.

dodint
September 6th, 2016, 03:06 PM
Honestly what would likely happen for me is I buy the DMC next summer and then go back and buy a used Challenger of current vintage in 2020 or so. I just don't buy new cars. Then I'd retire the E36 and cage it for BMWCCA as was intended when I originally purchased it.

If I buy any late model car in the next 5 years it's, like, Challenger and then a huge gap down to M240i and then a field of oddball contenders.

Who knows. Maybe when I finish law school I'll have sold my soul and just start an endless string of leases. I'm already pushing Ash in that direction as it is.

KillerB
September 6th, 2016, 08:34 PM
Well, if you'd rather buy used, you'll have a plethora of choices in a few years. The car has sold better every year over the previous year until recently.

I'd get into leasing if we needed two new cars at a time or if I thought I'd keep wanting new cars... but I'm convinced that there won't be much I want after the current generation of performance cars. The rise of Uber and then self-driving cars mean that the current generation of customers who can't drive stick will be replaced by the next generation of customers who can't or won't drive at all.

Meanwhile, enthusiast cars will continue to go up in price. Despite what a great experience I've had with the Challenger, I kick myself every day for not buying an air-cooled Porsche instead... at a minimum I'd have doubled my money. I'm just hoping I have another year or two before rotary Mazdas, Honda S2000s, and 61-62 Cadillacs get crazy expensive.

Godson
September 6th, 2016, 09:33 PM
S2000s have stayed consistent. I don't see them sitting up in value just yet.

dodint
September 7th, 2016, 05:15 AM
Meanwhile, enthusiast cars will continue to go up in price. Despite what a great experience I've had with the Challenger, I kick myself every day for not buying an air-cooled Porsche instead... at a minimum I'd have doubled my money. I'm just hoping I have another year or two before rotary Mazdas, Honda S2000s, and 61-62 Cadillacs get crazy expensive.

This is where I am with the DMC. The prices have been steadily climbing and there is no reason for them to go down, ever. Hell if as many catch fire every summer as did this summer they'll be really rare in time. ;)

I feel like if I had the DMC, a 7th Gen Impala, and either a current gen Challenger or an M car of my choice I could probably be set for life. I just don't see many chances for new cars to capture my enthusiast eye. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I just don't see it, you know?