What no NSX thread?

[LHutton]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZQzLOwmY60&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_TwC48noYg

[TheBenior]

Because Honda/Acura have been cockteasing us with the 'next NSX' for a decade.



Also, thunder stolen by Ford GT.

[The359]

It's a little bland too, like a softened Audi R8. It's never struck me as intriguing like the original NSX.

[MR2 Fan]

Because Honda/Acura have been cockteasing us with the 'next NSX' for a decade.



Also, thunder stolen by Ford GT.

I don't think the new NSX is $400,000

[The359]

I don't think it's going to be as attainable as it used to be though.

[TheBenior]

I don't think the new NSX is $400,000

A $150,000-200,000 sports car is no more plausible for me to own than a $400,000 sports car, and I'm guessing that a significant portion of buyers of cars in the lower price range could also buy one at the higher end of the price range. If they weren't all sold out already, that is.

The "thunder stolen" was at the Detroit auto show, where the 'production ready' NSX was unveiled, and the press and public by and large responded with, "... OOOH, FORD GT!"

[Jason]

I like the way it looks... can barely hear it though... If it comes in sub $100k it'll be impressive... if it comes in anything above, it'll be largely laughed off the face of the planet.

[overpowered]

H4RDC0R3!!!

[2ndMoparMan]

Took someone long enough to post that. Thanks, overpowered. :)

[LHutton]

I don't think the new NSX is $400,000
~$150k in the US.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/nsx/90010/all-new-honda-nsx-full-details-price-and-specs

For a AWD hybrid supercar that's actually not bad. Base 911 Turbo money. The original NSX was never really 'cheap' when new either, costing £60-70k back in 1990, now adjust that for inflation.

[Random]

The UK gets boned on car prices. A US-market '91 NSX stickered for $60k + $600 destination fee.

That's ~$105k in 2015 dollars, using a CPI inflation calculator with all the caveats entailed therein.

[The359]

150k is less than I was expecting actually.

[LHutton]

The UK gets boned on car prices. A US-market '91 NSX stickered for $60k + $600 destination fee.

That's ~$105k in 2015 dollars, using a CPI inflation calculator with all the caveats entailed therein.
A more realistic way of looking at it is to say that a 3.3 Turbo 964 also cost about that in 1990 and now it's >$150k for a 991 Turbo (minus every option), and that doesn't have hybrid technology. And the price of a Turbo S has doubled since 1994, and the 1994 Turbo S was a very limited production run of ~90.

More disturbing, is when in ten years, a car goes from a supercharged 5.5V8 to an Ecoboost 3.5V6 and triples in price.

[Freude am Fahren]

Didn't the original NSX pull a GT-R and balloon in MSRP over its lifespan?

Google'd. The base '97 NSX was already up to 84k. In today's money that's $125k. It did level out though, and was still shy of $90k by 2005, which would be about $110k today.

[Kchrpm]

To be fair, also like the GT-R, they added a significant amount of power to it at some point (in addition to going to a 6-speed manual from a 5-speed), so the price jump wasn't completely out of nowhere. I forget what other changes there were, Jason might know.

[TheBenior]

Mid to late 90s Japanese cars got expensive due to the strong Yen.

My 1997 Miata M Edition was ~$25k, or $36k adjusted for inflation.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Can it beat the GTR lap time on Nürburgring?

If not, then Honda should take it back to the drawing board...

[Kchrpm]

Nurburgring technically doesn't allow anyone go after lap times outside of sanctioned races anymore. How they police that, I do not know.

http://jalopnik.com/the-nurburgring-banned-lap-records-1712496751

They are likely to rethink it next year.

I do not think, however, that being faster than a GTR is a supercar's only reason for existence. If you can create a compelling story for your product, and produce the proper reaction, the specific numbers are not that important.

[Crazed_Insanity]

GTR can even beat bunch of Ferrari models... Nissan's better lap times will never be able to compete with Ferrari name...

However, Honda is no Ferrari... and if it also can't come close to your cheaper rivals, then why bother?

Plus, 1st gen NSX came as a surprise to us all. The element of shock and awe along with Ayrton Senna as its test driver made it a very compelling car. However, it just didn't deliver the most bang for the buck compared to other supercars during that period. Face it, most Honda customers are looking for value. Customers looking to showoff their wealth most likely won't go for a Honda. Back then, Corvette was the cheap supercar to beat. Nissan engineers have done their homework and caught up. Honda engineers are still napping at their desks I think.

Anyway, this 2nd time around, there's no shock and there's no awe. Can't really utilize Alonso to sell the car so they need Jerry Seinfeld. ;)

If you have $150k to buy a car, would the new NSX really be your top choice?

It wouldn't even be my 2nd or 3rd choice.

Anyway, maybe it's not Honda engineers' fault, but their lousy upper bean counting management.

[Rare White Ape]

I'd buy an NSX over a GT-R any day of the week, because mid-engined.

The GT-R is literally a family sedan repurposed into a sportscar; it and the 370Z are based on the Skyline platform. The NSX has no family sedan DNA in it at all, so the driving experience will be well beyond what the GT-R can provide.

Also the GT-R probably wouldn't function in any competent fashion (i.e. it'd be an understeery bag of hell) if it weren't for the AWD torque-splitting gizmos that the GT-R family is famous for, whereas the NSX is built to have perfect weight distribution and balance from the get-go because it has the freedom to do this, so would be a great car if it relied only on 2WD power, but they've added electric motor FWD assist like a Le Mans car... holy shit.

Notice how I didn't mention anything about laptimes here?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Fine, forget lap times. If you have roughly $150k gift with the condition that you had to buy one car, any car you want. Will the new Honda NSX be on the top of your list? If the answer is yes, then Honda succeeded.

All I'm saying is that for me, Honda failed to move me as before.

[LHutton]

So when does the 6:11 time go down?

[Godson]

Did you miss the release stating the ring won't allow people to run laptime anymore?

[LHutton]

I thought that was only in racing.

[Rare White Ape]

If you have roughly $150k gift with the condition that you had to buy one car, any car you want. Will the new Honda NSX be on the top of your list?

Nah it'd probably go towards something old an European... and mid-engined.

Or ten motorbikes.

[Godson]

Bikes are always better than cars.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Okay, the condition is ONE car. Since it's meant to be compared with the new NSX, it really should be a new car too. Which single new car is on the top of your list?

I think it's safe to say that the new NSX won't be on the top of most people's lists... Most just aren't that hardcore.

[MR2 Fan]

Okay, the condition is ONE car. Since it's meant to be compared with the new NSX, it really should be a new car too. Which single new car is on the top of your list?

I think it's safe to say that the new NSX won't be on the top of most people's lists... Most just aren't that H4RDC0R3!!!

fixed that for you

[thesameguy]

I have been ignoring this thread. Honda NSX = Dinka Jester fo sho.

[novicius]

:lol: :up:

[LHutton]

I noticed that too but then the badge on the back has more than a hint of NISMO.

And honestly, I think the 2018 R36 is probably the only new car I'd consider over this for UK driving at that price. I guess US folk have Corvette options but the C6 ZR1 cost about £120+k here on import when new and C7 Z06 is £150k LOL (>$225k).

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=used-cars&M=289&Page=1&SortOptions=PriceHighToLow

[Freude am Fahren]

I'm pretty sure you can get the Z06 in the UK for under £100k.

Well, MSRP anyway.

[Crazed_Insanity]

We're lucky to have such low car taxes in the US. Other nations aren't so lucky.

Anyway, so nobody here would pick the new NSX as their #1 choice?

What a surprised.

[Kchrpm]

Supercars are often emotional purchases, and we haven't really had the ability to get emotionally attached to it yet. I like the styling, but they're going to need to get cars into the hands of some people that can make it "sing" so to speak, so we can get their reactions and their lurid slides, before we all start writing our imaginary checks.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Fair enough. Let's wait and see. Of course I reserve the right to change my mind too! :p

[Rare White Ape]

Anyway, so nobody here would pick the new NSX as their #1 choice?

What a surprised.

Provide me with a list of its competitors in a similar-ish price bracket and I'll let you know.

[LHutton]

I'm pretty sure you can get the Z06 in the UK for under £100k.

Well, MSRP anyway.
Unlikely for a C7. The one I showed is £150k. C6 ZR1s were £125k. At those prices, they're just not a bargain anymore.

[LHutton]

Provide me with a list of its competitors in a similar-ish price bracket and I'll let you know.
In the US you have the 911 Turbo, AUdi R8 V10 and Mercedes AMG GTS at roughly the same price and the C7 Z06 and GTR for about $100k. Ferrari 488 or Huracan at the next level up are $250-300k. I'd say it's soundly priced and offers something unique at that price range.

[samoht]

There are a lot of options for about £100k, even given that the 'baby' Ferrari has moved up to the next tier.

I'd be considering the following alongside the new NSX:

Aston Martin V12 Vantage S
Audi R8 V10
Bentley Continental V8
BMW i8
Corvette Z06
Ferrari California T
Jaguar F-Type R Coupe
Lotus Evora S
Maserati GranTurismo MC Stradale
Mercedes AMG GTS
Nissan GT-R
Porsche 911 GT3
Porsche 911 Turbo

[samoht]

I think the issue I take with the new NSX is that it's changed camps from its famed predecessor.

By that I mean, there are broadly two schools of thought when it comes to driving enthusiasts.

Type A drivers are all about the actual speed, both in a straight line and around the corners. They enjoy going fast, and want anything that makes their car faster - not just power, but 4wd, active drivetrain electronics, electronic driver aids as long as they make the car quicker, etc.

Type B drivers still like speed, but more for the qualitative sensations it gives than actual times. They focus more on the dynamic interaction between car and driver, both communication and how the driver can 'feel' and 'manage' the attitude of the car using throttle and brakes as well as steering. For a Type B driver, feeling the car slip into oversteer on entry is more thrilling than knocking another tenth off their best lap.

Type A drivers gravitate to 4wd cars, Type B to rwd ones (whether FR, MR or RR).

The first NSX was a 'type B' car with a nat-asp engine, MR layout and good balance but scarce chassis electronics to help out. The new car with turbo, 4wd and lots of electronics feels more like a car for Type A drivers.

I'm not saying everyone is either one or the other, clearly it's a spectrum between two extremes (perhaps with drifting at the extreme B end, and all other forms of motorsports at the extreme A end). But I lean more towards type B, so I have a lot of love for the original NSX, but the idea of the new one doesn't massively excite me.

[LHutton]

The market is largely filled with Type A people though. Lamborghini found that out with Gallardo orders. Just before they scrapped manual transmissions, so few people were ordering them that every one resulted in a call to the dealer to check it wasn't a mistake.

The GTR winning eCOTY in 2008 also proved that Type A cars can be Type B too.

[samoht]

The market is largely filled with Type A people though. Lamborghini found that out with Gallardo orders. Just before they scrapped manual transmissions, so few people were ordering them that every one resulted in a call to the dealer to check it wasn't a mistake.

The GTR winning eCOTY in 2008 also proved that Type A cars can be Type B too.

Certainly the Lamborghini market would seem to be filled with Type A customers, absolutely. I hope that Honda can find their own band of customers and make a success of the new NSX, and I'm not going to assume that just because a car doesn't appeal so much to me personally, therefore no-one will like it and it will flop.

The GTR is really interesting, because as you say it is championed by journalists as a really interactive, fun drivers' car, not just a Type A speed machine.

I've only had a scant four laps in one, so I can't really say I know how it would feel to really drive one on/over the limit.

The thing is, my FD is pretty simple. The engine is fairly linear, manual gearbox, mechanical LSD out back, no chassis electronics. And yet, on track I still find there's a lot of complexity to its behaviour, the way that trail-braking affects attitude on entry, or when it will break the tail on exit. I had an instructor in the car at Snetterton and he pointed out I was coming off the brakes too hard at corner entry, causing the front of the car to bounce up and lose grip at the front, leading to understeer which caused me to instinctively wind on extra lock, unsettling the car when it bounced down and gripped again. I was entirely unaware of all this!

Given the challenge and complexity of driving a car which has no active electronics at all (bar the ABS which is pretty clear when it cuts in, and it wasn't), I would feel that driving something like the GTR I'd be even more in the dark about the complex interaction of the car's basic physics, it's electronics, and my own instinctive, unconscious reactions. Not that it wouldn't be faster, but I'm not sure I would be able to understand what it's doing so well. I imagine experienced journos can 'feel' and understand the electronic interventions, feel comfortable with them and use them as part of the car-driver interaction.

I guess the GTR, and potentially the NSX, can appeal to both Type A drivers, and also the more experienced Type B drivers who can understand and master more complex behaviour, and use it.

[thesameguy]

Given the challenge and complexity of driving a car which has no active electronics at all (bar the ABS which is pretty clear when it cuts in, and it wasn't), I would feel that driving something like the GTR I'd be even more in the dark about the complex interaction of the car's basic physics, it's electronics, and my own instinctive, unconscious reactions.

I have not driven all that many cars on track, but all of them have been older, simpler cars except one - the CTS-V. And it isn't even that complex! But I had the hardest time getting that thing around a track because electronics would kick in, I would not expect the car's reaction, and then I'd start fighting the systems. My first time out involved a few embarrassing situations that would have been entirely avoided had I kept doing what I was doing and let the things do their thing. I imagine switching back and forth between old and new cars comes with experience.

[Crazed_Insanity]

RWA, here's a list for you to pick:

1) Porsche 911 $85k~$134k
2) Mercedes AMG GT/GT S $131k
3) Audi R8 $117k~$201k
4) Jaguar F-type R $100k
5) Nissan GT-R $103k~$152k
6) Astin Martin...
7) Dodge Viper...
8) Corvette...
9) BAC Mono

Anyway, since I already have a daily driver and if I have additional garage space, my #1 choice would be the BAC Mono. :D

If my S2000 expired and need this $150k gift car as a daily driver, I'd most likely pick the 911 over the NSX. To really get my money's worth, of course I'd pick the R8, but if from purely a performance perspective, 911 would still top my list. Now, unless later on NSX impresses all reviewers..., then maybe I'll consider having it! :p For now, I'd pick the old NSX over the new one.

[The359]

Saw an original NSX yesterday. I think the new one is just bland compared to the original. They're just a classic look.

[XHawkeye]

Nice open ended tweet.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSREHfFWsAA70mf.jpg:large

@harrismonkey I drove the NSX last week. And I'm reading some of the reviews today and wondering if I drove the same car...... (https://twitter.com/harrismonkey/status/658726356524605441)

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSRCOlDWsAA8zOL.jpg:large

We spent two days with the new Honda NSX - this is what we learnt http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/honda/nsx/first-drives/2016-honda-nsx-road-and-track-review …

[Crazed_Insanity]

So what's the verdict? I'm kinda confused after reading the review...

[Kchrpm]

The first drive I read (I don't remember what site, maybe autoblog...yep: http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/26/2017-acura-nsx-first-drive-review-video/ ) made it sound like it was the Acura/Honda GT-R. The computers and electric motors make it go much faster, and be much smoother at it, than a traditional car of similar output could, but with the caveat that steerfeel and direct control is reduced in the process.


Before we wander off into a dark corner discussing the 15 different attributes adjusted by the four NSX drive modes, let's get front and center with one thing: the NSX is fast. Like, stupid fast. The kind of fast that makes you giggle every time you hit the gas. The kind of fast that makes you think about how the walls at Sonoma Raceway are way, way too close to the track.

...

The TMU is also what makes the NSX nimble at low speeds and stable when going fast. Acura engineers fitted the car with a quick-ratio steering rack because it uses the TMU to slightly counteract steering inputs and smooth out response at high speeds. Like the brakes, you'd never know unless someone told you.

...

Are there compromises? Oh yes. For one, you don't get any steering feedback through the wheel. On our final session around Sonoma Raceway we adjusted to picking up the car's state of grip through our hips. This is not a car that speaks in the traditional sense, and many people will have a problem with that. On the other hand, the NSX can do things other cars can't, like cut around a hairpin at speeds that leave other cars plowing in a straight line.

[XHawkeye]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUDLUSqfqxg

"... some times their rationality ruins their product and this is kinda of one of those examples ..."

[Jason]

It really does sound like Honda's take on the modern supercar much like the original was on supercars back then.

Also it's looks are growing on me.

[neanderthal]

Does anybody make a light, compact, RWD, pure, supercar anymore.


Not overpowered like the Vette and Viper, the two that immediately spring to mind but with slightly less power. Just enough to enjoy without an "oh shit" loaded pants moment every time you step on it.

And yes, the Vette is more sportscar than supercar but there's so little between them now; they all handle, they all make great power, they all go fast in a straight line, they all brake well etc.

[neanderthal]

Cayman GT4?

[Jason]

The hopped up Evora could be a contender... But probably not "super"

[Kchrpm]

It's not a supercar if you don't have oh shit power, arguably, it's just a sports car.

[Kchrpm]

The F40, which many consider THE supercar, was a monster when the turbos kicked in, from all accounts.

[Jason]

Then why what's the NSX ever called a supercar? And the modern one as well, since it's power is linear?

[neanderthal]

I think it's legend just grew until it got promoted.

Or sum like dat...

[Jason]

Gotchya. I never really know what qualifies for each label.

[TheBenior]

It's not a supercar if you don't have oh shit power, arguably, it's just a sports car.

Agreed, though what qualifies as "oh shit" power varies by the era. "light, compact, RWD, pure" car without 'oh shit' power equals the kind of sports car represented by the Miata and base Boxster/Cayman these days, as even the Boxster/Cayman S run high 12s.

[MR2 Fan]

Agreed, though what qualifies as "oh shit" power varies by the era. "light, compact, RWD, pure" car without 'oh shit' power equals the kind of sports car represented by the Miata and base Boxster/Cayman these days, as even the Boxster/Cayman S run high 12s.

86 Twins also fit that description ;)

[neanderthal]

It was supposed to be "with plenty of power but not 'oh shit!' power."


Kinda like the original NSX

[TheBenior]

Meant to edit a post, but then accidentally deleted it. Basically the gist of it was that the NSX was seriously quick when it came out in 1990.

It's easy to forget that we're spoiled with accessible performance in these days of hot hatches that are a reflash away from running 13 second quarter miles, and base model pony cars that run 13s.

During the 80s Malaise Era in which the NSX was conceived, the original target Ferrari 328 couldn't get into the 13s. The revised target of the 348 barely got into the 13s. The mid-to-high 13s that the NSX ran were quicker than either. Remember, V8 pony cars ran high 14s back then, the M3 could maybe do that on a very good day, and most family sedans ran 17s or 18s (a 2.5L V6 V20 Camry might do low 16s, and that was shockingly quick compared to most sedans).

Now, that didn't last long, as the F355 came out a couple years later and was breaking into the high 12s, but for a brief period, Honda sold a car that was faster, cheaper, and of course, more reliable than a comparable Ferrari.

[novicius]

Mid-to-high 13's? Maybe the later ones did but doing a Google search for a '91 NSX comes back with 14.2 sec quarter mile times.

EDIT: Ah, found a scan from a 1990 C&D comparison -- 13.8 @ 102 mph. :up:

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1544&stc=1

[thesameguy]

That commentary on the ZR1 is pretty funny.


This car is a rolling embarrassment to America until you stand on the gas.

[Jason]

It's kind of amusing that by the time I'm done with plans for my FiST, I'll be at a similar power to weight ratio as a 1991... sports/super/eroticar :up: Not sure if that's impressive or not hahaha

[thesameguy]

I sure think it is... especially when you chance upon one on the highway. :lol: :up:

[Rare White Ape]

Reminds me of those absurd Top Gear tests/challenges, where they'd set a fast lap at a circuit using The Stig in a modern hot hatch, and try to get their Italian supercars from the 70s/80s to match the time.

[21Kid]

It's kind of amusing that by the time I'm done with plans for my FiST, I'll be at a similar power to weight ratio as a 1991... sports/super/eroticar :up: Not sure if that's impressive or not hahaha
Are you going to post pics of your FiST eroticar when complete? :D

[MR2 Fan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8JwgDAPPqg

[21Kid]

What!!?!! The air goes through the front and back intakes. whoa. :o

Too bad it's $200k. :(

[XHawkeye]

For that money I'll take a Porsche 911 R

[Freude am Fahren]

No you won't. They were all already spoken for before even being unveiled. :(

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hmm..., Jay seems to like it. Wonder if it's genuine or just being nice in front of Acura folks...

[21Kid]

I'm sure it's good... For $200k it better be.

[MR2 Fan]

Hmm..., Jay seems to like it. Wonder if it's genuine or just being nice in front of Acura folks...

Jay Leno doesn't meet many cars he doesn't like

[Kchrpm]

True, he does kind of point out in every video why each car is almost perfect.

[Sad, little man]

I see that the NSX plant in Ohio has an original NSX in its lobby. What an incredibly blatant way of admitting that the new model will never match the legend and the beautiful simplicity of the old one.

Sigh, what a contrived marketing exercise this car is.

[Freude am Fahren]

Problem is performance of its rivals is so high, simplicity can't compete. You can't beat a GT-R without technology like you could in the early 90's. Supercar and simple and light were synonymous then. Today in order to be fast, you have to have tech, and/or a huge engine. If they used the same formula as the original, they'd be competing with the Cayman, not the Turbo, R8, GT-R and 458, etc. You and I probably wouldn't have a problem with that, but most would.

[Kchrpm]

Honda made a curious choice IMO, going after the GTR/488/Huracan/650S market using hybrid ideas/tech from class of cars above them. Will that be a selling point?

GTR-style smart AWD in a sleek, mid-engined package? Check.

LaFerrari/P1/918 hybrid tech for a quarter of the price? Check.

Honda has also built a RWD, non-hybrid version that they are sending to Pikes Peak, and are considering for production as a Type R: http://acuraconnected.com/2016/03/09/second-generation-acura-nsx-type-r-rumors/

[Sad, little man]

I think my biggest beef with it is the hybrid powertrain. That to me just craps all over the heritage of the original car, just like they did with the CR-Z. Some tech is necessary to make a modern sports car go fast. But, unless you're going to compete with the Porsche 918 and build a beast that would barely be possible without hybrid technology, just leave it out.

[Godson]

Nsx was the first car to have EPAS.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I have no issue with new NSX's hybrid powertrain in concept... it's a good concept/idea... except that it's unproven so far.

Is it really faster than it's street rivals? Particularly the GTR?

Is Honda even competitive on F-1 circuits? Not last year and probably won't this year.

Even if I have the money, why would I want to buy a car that's slower than a GTR and from a manufacturer who may or may not win another F1 championship?

I just feel that the new NSX is a bit premature.

Honda's hybrid tech is also a bit lacking though. Original Insight was great, but subsequent ones just don't perform as well as Prius in terms of efficiency. CRZ is also not that cheap nor efficient nor sporty.

So there'll be a lot of convincing from Honda for me to buy the new NSX(assuming I have the money).

[shakes]

I can't remember where I saw it, might have been this thread but some NSX enthusiasts are pushing for a 'Type R' version without the hybrid powertrain.

I don't think Acura will have any problem selling the new NSX. Acura buyers (at least Canadian ones) are loyal to the point of stupidity. I have a friend who works at an Acura dealership and 65% of his business is from repeat customers. But if you look at Acura's current line-up, there really isn't any reason they should be selling ANY number of units. The only reason they sell is because of the loyalty and perahaps the perceived Honda/Acura build quality. I don't think Honda built this car to attract new customers to the fold, I think they built it as a halo model for the brand. I think this is the car for the guy who's had 3 or 4 MDX's, maybe owned one of the original NSXs, and now wants a summer toy or something to enjoy in his retirement. I don't think its the car for the stereotypical millionaire playboy to add to his collection of Ferraris and Lambos.

[Kchrpm]

I can't remember where I saw it, might have been this thread but some NSX enthusiasts are pushing for a 'Type R' version without the hybrid powertrain.

A few posts up.


Honda has also built a RWD, non-hybrid version that they are sending to Pikes Peak, and are considering for production as a Type R: http://acuraconnected.com/2016/03/09/second-generation-acura-nsx-type-r-rumors/

[Sad, little man]

Nsx was the first car to have EPAS.
Again though, really I think what rubs the wrong way is the powertrain. All those heavy batteries and motors that don't really do anything to aid performance, at least nothing that a slightly bigger engine couldn't? Not an NSX in my mind.

[Godson]

I agree. Which is why I could care less about this car.

[Sad, little man]

How much less could you care about it? ;)

[TheBenior]

Sigh, what a contrived marketing exercise this car is.

So just like any other supercar/exotic that's not a Ferrari or Lamborghini?

[Sad, little man]

...or a 2017 Ford GT. http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/123878-imsa-ford-s-new-gt-loaded-with-open-wheel-dna

[Kchrpm]

It's a halo car. This is the halo they're trying to project now, it's not the same one they were trying to project when they made the original NSX.

Here's one that will be non-hybrid and RWD, but not in your typical showroom: http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/23/acura-nsx-gt3-new-york-official/

http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/384/047/0/S3840470/slug/l/01-acura-nsx-gt3-ny-1.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/384/047/2/S3840472/slug/l/03-acura-nsx-gt3-ny-1.jpg

Would look great on a PWC grid.

[The359]

IMSA GTD is the rumor I've heard, at least for the first development year.

[Freude am Fahren]

They're both the world GT3 rules as far as I know, right? I'd love to see one in the RealTime livery.

http://www.projectnsx.co.uk/Images/OtherNSXs/real-time-nsx(2)-big.jpg

[The359]

Yes, they're the same, I think it's merely a matter that they will only build enough development cars for one team the first year, then the customer cars can come the second year. Same as the Lexus GT3 program, and the original Lamborghini Huracan GT3 program last year,

[Freude am Fahren]

Hopefully we'll also see a sub $100k non-hybrid RWD street version. (Yeah Right)

[thesameguy]

IMHO, Acura would be very wise to do that.

[The359]

That'd be too fun for modern Honda.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Badge it Honda S3500!

[Godson]

Ummm. That wouldn't follow any of Hondas history

[thesameguy]

How so?

[Crazed_Insanity]

You have to make history!

After their mower, Honda never made bikes before. Honda also never made cars before that... Honda never made trucks and SUVs neither. Honda also never made boat engines nor jets nor robots! :p

Anyway, they should just take away all the fancy electronics and batteries and turbos and see how many HP they can squeeze out of that 3.5L engine. They could squeeze 120Hp/Liter before... so at the minimum, they should be able to achieve the same #... which means 420HP!!!

Heck, maybe they can just put 2 S2000 motors in there and get 480HP out of it. This hypothetical S4000 probably will end up cheaper, lighter and more agile than the new NSX! :p

[Godson]

Honda S series cars have always been small, light, front engine-rear wheel drive, small displacement high revving four cylinders. For over 40 years.


Why would they completely change the formula for such a car series with huge history and a cult following?

[thesameguy]

Think you might want to check that. The S660 is decidedly mid-engined.

http://img.9tro.com/images/original/1801-honda-s660/9tro_040815_030458_END%20Honda-S660_2015_1600x1200_wallpaper_2c.jpg

Also, huge history might overstate five cars with a combined 15 years of production out of 55 years in business.

[Godson]

S660 is more in line with the original S500(being a kei car) than any of the others. Outside of that, the formula is completely different and doesn't really share much with the S500/600/800/2000.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I always consider my s2000 as a mid-engine car with it's engine closer to the front axle! ;)

Anyway, I think Honda needs some sort of halo car for itself! If not the S2000 then a prelude... Or at least a CRX type car?

I just hope the old NSX/newNSX won't end up like what they did with CRZ... Lost the original spirit of the CRX, yet neither really a performer nor is it that efficient nor cheap. It's like why bother?

[thesameguy]

Too bad they killed the TSX, as a coupe version called Prelude could be awesome.

[thesameguy]

S660 is more in line with the original S500(being a kei car) than any of the others. Outside of that, the formula is completely different and doesn't really share much with the S500/600/800/2000.

So there have been two Kei cars, three roughly normal sized cars, one mid engine car, and four FR cars over 15 years or production? Man, I would not recognize that as any sort of legacy, personally.

[thesameguy]

OTOH, maybe we will get the 125hp S660... That would be neat.

[Kchrpm]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a31275/2017-performance-car-of-the-year/


Receiving eight of the available 10 votes, the Acura NSX became the most universally acclaimed automobile in PCOTY history, and justifiably so. Its predecessor merely changed the supercar game in the perpetuity by proving that anvil-like reliability and the ecstatic revelation of exotic performance could coexist in a single value-priced sports. This one promises to do much more than that.

For the first time in a hybrid automobile of any price or capability, technology has been placed firmly in the service of emotional involvement rather than in place of it. The hardware, of course, is first-rate and duly compliant with all possible requirements for environmental and social relevance, but the genius of the NSX is entirely human in nature. It was tireless development by human beings that made this very complicated and capable supercar dive for the apex with joy and bully its way to the corner exit with unfettered exuberance. Everything about the car—from the way in which the brake-by-wire pedal lengthens its travel when the brakes are hot to the manner in which the midmounted V6 permits itself a bit of the ol' barbaric yawp when it's winding out in fourth gear—is intended to enhance the driver's involvement.

Able to compete on level ground with the absolute cream of the conventional crop, the NSX also represents a brilliant basis for the ongoing development–indeed, the ongoing existence–of the performance automobile. To drive it for 10 laps on track is to permanently shed any worries that the next generation of supercars will be overpowered takes on a Prius; to experience it on a fast road is to be reassured that tomorrow's technology will be accessible and enjoyable. For that achievement alone, the NSX deserves to be our PCOTY, but the fact that it does it all so well, right now, places it beyond argument. The NSX works, but it also knows how to play. Confident and capable, thrilling on both road and track, the Acura NSX is our 2017 Performance Car of the Year.

[21Kid]

Corvette has the top Gs on the road handling test? Wow. Nice! :D

[novicius]

NSX: :up: :up:

It's what the MKVI should've been aiming for.

[Kchrpm]

Corvette has the top Gs on the road handling test? Wow. Nice! :D

Huge nearly-race-spec tires on the second lightest car of the group will do that for you.

[21Kid]

Just surprised that the others don't have similar slicks Keith.

[Kchrpm]

Some did!


So why is it the slowest car in the test? In a word: tires. Seven of the nine cars came prepared with low-treadwear track tires like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 or the Pirelli P Zero Corsa.

But the Grand Sport has the ridiculously wide tires that were designed for Z06 speeds and loads. The front tires on the GS are as wide as the rear tires on the Z51, 285 mm. The rears are 335 mm.

Acura NSX: 245 mm, 305 mm, 3868 lbs
Audi R8 V10 Plus: 245 mm, 305 mm, 3684 lbs
BMW M4 GTS: 265 mm, 285 mm, 3605 lbs
Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport: 285 mm, 335 mm, 3452 lbs
Jaguar F-Type SVR: 265 mm, 305 mm, 3979 lbs
Lotus Evora 400: 235 mm, 285 mm, 3212 lbs, street tires
Mercedes Benz C63 AMG S: 255 mm, 285 mm, 4102 lbs
Nissan GT-R NISMO: 255 mm, 285 mm, 3900 lbs
Porsche 911 Turbo S: 245 mm, 305 mm, 3563 lbs, street tires

So its front tires are as wide as the rears on 4 of the other 8 cars, it's lighter than every other car wearing track tires, and its rear tires are more than an inch wider than every other cars.

There are benefits to being the widest car of the bunch, too (77.1 inches; only the NSX and R8 are in the 76s, at 76.4, most are around 73 or 74). It's still an impressive accomplishment, of course, but shouldn't be too surprising given the choices Chevy made.

[Freude am Fahren]

Speaking of tires and the NSX, it's a shame the NSX was debuted with the "bad" Continental tires. It seemed to hurt some initial reviews of the car. This test uses Trofeo Rs, which are pretty much the closest thing to a track only tire you can put on the street.

Interestingly, a lot of M2 (and I presume M3/4) owners are upset as it seems to be completely random if your car shows up with MPSS or Conti's. I guess there's a shortage on the Michelins.

[21Kid]

Cool! :cool: :up: People always complain about American cars being all muscle and no handling/finesse. Looks like Chevy listened. :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Lap times near the top are amazingly close...

Anyway, still unconvinced about NSX... If I have $200k, for sure I would get the 911 turbo. For value, how can anything beat the Vette?

Honda should've waited for it's introduction til after they win a f1 championship.

[Yw-slayer]

I wouldn't reject one if someone gave it to me, but 911s are way too mainstream. Almost every expat banker housewife here has one, or a Boxster, or a 3/4/6-series convertible.

[thesameguy]

The only reason the NSX isn't mainstream is because there aren't any. Give it a couple years, hit F5.

[Yw-slayer]

Possibly in some ways, but you're very rarely going to see some expat banker housewife driving one. Even now, seeing an NSX in HK is a major head-turner.

[Kchrpm]

I'm fascinated by all the reviews of the NSX that say it's like the Porsche 918, except 911 priced.

[Yw-slayer]

And Japanese. So, much better.

[novicius]

:lol: :up:

[Godson]

And Japanese. So, much better.


Bite your tongue!!!!

[Yw-slayer]

The truth hurts. :D

[drew]

If I had $160k, it'd be a no brainer.


Of course, I'd have to live in it, ALONE. But hey, that's the price you pay.

[Yw-slayer]

You already alive alone. Don't you?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Everyone's alive alone, nobody can stay alive for anybody else...

Anyway, I still think NSX shouldn't be the winner... especially considering the price tag. If we consider prices, Corvette is the obvious winner. Other cars in the $100k range don't even look like they're are in the same class.

[novicius]

I'm ALL-IN on the new NSX, price tag be damned. :up: :up:

MSRP's are crazy these days so $160K USD is the new $80K. As shitty as the spread between our economic classes are, there are tens of thousands of wives/girlfriends/mistresses that will drive these things to go shopping. California & Florida alone will account for 4,000 units sold annually in the U.S. :lol: #timetotradeintheR8

[Freude am Fahren]

Yup. Bentley fucking Bentayga's are popping up like crazy here.

[Rare White Ape]

Bentley Bentayga? Never heard of it.

A Google image search tells me that a premium car in that format will sell more units than any Bentley that has ever come before, and will for some time.

[Freude am Fahren]

At US$230k a pop no less.

[drew]

You already alive alone. Don't you?

Nope. :finger:

[21Kid]

Play some more NMS and you will...

[novicius]

Sincerely hoping that the continued releases of better and better hypercars pushes the 2007 Audi R8 4.2 FSI V8-cars off of the depreciation cliff. Last I checked, they're still in the $50K+ range. :lol:

[balki]

You're too old for a low car, just get the Volkswagen Phaeton 4.2 which fell off the depreciation cliff a decade ago (funfact: they were still making them earlier this year)

[novicius]

Shit, I'll live in the thing -- just pay for the catheter & bedpan options. :hard:

[drew]

Play some more NMS and you will...

I haven't played that in two months :finger: