UK/Ireland Trip

[KillerB]

My lady and I are planning a trip for next May. We want to burn up some of my United miles, and it looks like a decent deal to fly from LAX to Dublin on Aer Lingus. My remaining mileage balance puts us in business class on the way out, and economy on the way back. Since the planes are A330s with 2+4+2 seating, economy is not a hardship on the way back.

Anyway, I'm looking for some advice. We're going to be in for about 10 days. What I'm curious about is what can realistically be fit in, in that amount of time, without feeling incredibly rushed.

We were thinking making a loop from Dublin/Liverpool/Manchester/Edinburgh/Glasgow/Belfast/Dublin, but we're only just starting to look at what all there might be to do. Also not sure about how to get around - I lean toward trains, but if there are a lot of things we'd want to see out in the sticks, I'm guessing we should rent a car.

[Random]

Lemme put you in touch with a travel guide friend of mine, who just happens to be touring Scotland right now.

PS. In for pics of the lady.

[thesameguy]

Timely. Considering doing the same about the same time for the same reason (well, it'll be BA miles, but whatevs). Just trying to find a way to move it to around, say, the end of June so that a certain festival might be attended. Just not sure if I can scrunch two trips in one year much less two trips close together (we are all set for a makeup Burning Man) or that I can convince my companion to burn her first trip overseas on cars. :lol:

Last time I went I rented a car. Although relatively expensive to drive, it was cheap to rent and nice never being on someone else's time table or having to work out transportation if we saw something interesting. Fully planning to do that again. It was fun telling people in London plans to drive to Glasgow. It's so far!

[Random]

ps. if you go through Manchester, make sure to look up Paul Cliff (skiddo). AlanP and Ali are in Scotland, though I am a lame American and don;t recall exactly where.

[Yw-slayer]

10 days for 6 cities? That's pushing it, isnt't it? When we visited California we spent 2 days in SF, 2 in Sonoma and then 1 getting down to Paso Robles, with 2 there and 1 night back in SF. Sure, the distances are greater, but why not stay a bit more in say 3-4 cities instead?

As for which ones, Scotland - in particular Edinburgh - I highly recommend. Glasgow city itself isn't terribly inspiring, so I'd probably use that as a base and spend the time there at the Lochs.

Also, speaking as someone who spent all his time in the South, there's probably not much difference between Liverpool and Manchester. They even both produce well-known football teams and rock/pop bands, although I do have an impression of Manchester having a better nightlife and entertainment scene than Liverpool.

[thesameguy]

Why does it matter how long you stay in one place?

[M4FFU]

As someone who recently visited Dublin for the first time, I wasn't particularly taken with the place. Short of the Guinness factory, there's not a great deal to do, but loads of 'Irish' Irish pubs, if that's your thing. I think you can probably knock it off in the afternoon.

As for the rest of your destinations; it's grim opp norf. ;D
Trains between big cities are useful, but unless booked in advance can be quite expensive. But then you'll see the price of our petrol and weep anyway. Liverpool or Manchester. I've not been to Liverpool, but have been to Manchester. Big city, stuff to see and do. Not sure there's a great deal of difference on the face of it, but unless there's something specific you want to see in either.

I'd go to Newcastle above either, if you want to do a Northern English city.

[Yw-slayer]

More than one day in a place is required to chill out and properly absorb/see stuff. I wouldn't want to do "NO in a day", or for that matter, most cities in a day. Any city or area that can be really properly and fully "done in a day" probably isn't worth the time tbh.

[IMOA]

Since the planes are A330s with 2+4+2 seating, economy is not a hardship on the way back.

Like fuck it's not.


More than one day in a place is required to chill out and properly absorb/see stuff. I wouldn't want to do "NO in a day", or for that matter, most cities in a day. Any city or area that can be really properly and fully "done in a day" probably isn't worth the time tbh.

I absolutely agree. You need to spend some time, relax into an area, wander the streets, visit a few cafes, pubs, bars, restaurants. One of the most important lessons I've learnt when travelling is to always plan as if you're coming back, that way you don't feel the urge to bus tour it. Personally I'd be doing 4-5 days in London and then do 2 or at most 3 other places for the rest of the time

Oh, and plan your trip for Goodwood festival of speed or Goodwood revival because they are fucking awesome.

[KillerB]

:lol: well it IS a hardship but not as much as if we had to sit next to other people. I only have enough United miles to do business one way.

I've got a big chunk of Delta miles, but I'm saving those for either a Pacific trip or Frannce or Italy.

As for Goodwood... the timing of this trip might be stuck in May for... reasons.

[Kchrpm]

As for Goodwood... the timing of this trip might be stuck in May for... reasons.
Congratulations :)

[FaultyMario]

yay!

¡Felicidades!

[samoht]

If you're looking to visit cities, as a general rule I'd say the ones on the eastern side of the UK are older, and hence tend to be more historic and beautiful than the industrial ones on the west. I would personally recommend, say, London, Cambridge, York, Newcastle and Edinburgh over the western ones on your list, unless you particularly want to visit (post-)industrial places.

There are of course exceptions; Bath is nice (but a long way south), Stratford upon Avon is historic and central; Newcastle is quite industrial (but still quite a good place to visit IMHO).

On the other hand, the really good countryside is nearly all in the west. Devon, North Wales, the Lake District, and western Scotland are all beautiful, magical, lovely areas to visit.

Of the places you mentioned:



As for which ones, Scotland - in particular Edinburgh - I highly recommend. Glasgow city itself isn't terribly inspiring, so I'd probably use that as a base and spend the time there at the Lochs.


I agree about Edinburgh, the combination of the elegant, imposing stone buildings and the vertiginous geography is pretty cool, castle, museums, etc, probably worth 3 nights.

I actually like Glasgow, the Kelvingrove museum is worth a visit, there are decent bits of waterfront, and there is some good food. I definitely agree with driving north from there, probably the best countryside in the UK, really epic and film-like.

So an Edinburgh-Glasgow-Highlands combo works v well I reckon.


I visited Belfast with my wife last month. We didn't find that much to see in the city itself, apart from the Titanic exhibition, which is first-class. (There is no DeLorean museum, sadly). We also drove up to the north coast to the Giant's Causeway, which was quite interesting, it was nice to get out into the countryside / coast.

Manchester has a good war museum which you might appreciate, otherwise the waterfront is kinda shiny; I didn't feel it was super-interesting as a place to spend time. It's a bit of a way south, but the Wedgwood pottery museum at Stoke on Trent is really good, one could spend a lot of time there.

I haven't spent much time in Liverpool, but when I did visit there didn't seem to be a huge amount to do/see honestly.

I visited Dublin ~15 years ago, don't remember it much, I think it was 'ok' but YMMV.



If you do go to Cambridge you probably want to visit Duxford, huge air museum with lots of warbirds, mainly American and British.


As far as travel goes, I was shocked how expensive it was to take the car ferry between Belfast and Scotland (nearly 150 quid each way).

As said, if you just want to visit cities then trains are convenient, no worries about drinking. OTOH if and when you want to get out into the countryside, hiring a car is well worth it.


Happy to try and answer any more specific questions.

[thesameguy]

Last there I did a big loop, London - something in Wales (maybe Swansea?) - Birmingham and back and saw everything I wanted to see in the middle including Bath and Stratford upon Avon. It was a nice tour of the southern UK with plenty of city and plenty of country and plenty of B roads. ;) And the M4. I didn't feel the need to plan multiple days in any particular location, though I generally don't plan at all, so if I ended up somewhere for two hours or two days that was cool. I knew I was going to be in London twice for planes, but everything in the middle was up for negotiation.

When travelling, if I feel like it's time to leave, or something in an adjacent town catches my eye, I go there. If I miss something or want more time in a place, there is always next time. For me, vacations are not about agendas, they're about doing what I want when I want. "You must spend four days in London going to bars" sounds like work. "Ooooh, shiny, let's go there" is how I roll on my own time. That's how you end up in a 22' 50 year old Cadillac with no roof in Zion National Park, or eating four times at the worst restaurant on the planet in a broken down industrial town in upstate New York. Good times.

In this case, the UK isn't going anywhere, so whether you spend a week in London in one trip or a week in London across seven trips, you've seen the same amount of London. Do what feels right, change it up next time.

[Yw-slayer]

"Always next time"? Dude, so many places to go to, so much to see, and so little time to do it in.

[thesameguy]

And you'll never see all of it, so don't trip.

[KillerB]

Thanks for the congratulations- not ready to announce anything but the gears are in motion. Got to get some pics up I suppose. :)

I guess I'm not even sure we are stuck on cities or countryside. I guess some of each. We like nightlife (definitely want to hit some pubs) and I've got her on board to check out some car/plane/train stuff but aside from that, I guess we are asking what's good to see and do?

She has been to London before but definitely would like to go again. She also definitely wants to see a bit of Ireland, which is convenient because the flight setup works best going to Dublin.

[Alan P]

Edinburgh!!!! Best city in the whole world! Congrats on the impending. :) Ireland is a great place but as said, there's not a huge amount to do there. Edinburgh has loads more but bring a coat. And a jumper. And maybe a hat and make sure the coat is waterproof. Scotland is WET around May time. Actually scrub that. Scotland is just wet any time.

[thesameguy]

Although slightly OT, this thread got me thinking about points/miles/whatever. I have an enormous amount of them (I don't take a lot of vacations... ) and I am trying to figure out the most economical way to use them. Between tiered award flights and bizarre airline alliances I am having a hard time feeling confident about what I am doing. I've been reading thepointsguy.com off and on for a while, but wondering if anyone has any recommendations for other places.

By way of example of what I am talking about, I have 160,000 CUR points, which is good for an equal number of miles on many airlines... I could transfer them to United and fly roundtrip to Hawaii for 50,000 miles, OR I could transfer them to British Airways and use their travel partner Alaska Airlines and do the same trip for 25,000 miles. It's a huge difference! It's totally possible these ridiculous machinations are more or less random, but I am wondering if there is rhyme or reason. When I'm talking about booking more expensive flights to a far away place, it would be nice to use less miles or have nicer seats than the opposite. I just find it impossible to feel comfortable in "the right answer."

[KillerB]

Flyertalk.com is a good place to start.

[Random]

Lemme put you in touch with a travel guide friend of mine, who just happens to be touring Scotland right now.


So, this didn't work out. :lol: Ah well...

[thesameguy]

Flyertalk.com is a good place to start.

I will check it out. Continuing to accumulate miles is ridiculous. I've gotta use them.

[KillerB]

So, this didn't work out. :lol: Ah well...

Yep, not a peep. Oh well.

[neanderthal]

Last there I did a big loop, London - something in Wales (maybe Swansea?) - Birmingham and back and saw everything I wanted to see in the middle including Bath and Stratford upon Avon. It was a nice tour of the southern UK with plenty of city and plenty of country and plenty of B roads. ;) And the M4. I didn't feel the need to plan multiple days in any particular location, though I generally don't plan at all, so if I ended up somewhere for two hours or two days that was cool. I knew I was going to be in London twice for planes, but everything in the middle was up for negotiation.

When travelling, if I feel like it's time to leave, or something in an adjacent town catches my eye, I go there. If I miss something or want more time in a place, there is always next time. For me, vacations are not about agendas, they're about doing what I want when I want. "You must spend four days in London going to bars" sounds like work. "Ooooh, shiny, let's go there" is how I roll on my own time. That's how you end up in a 22' 50 year old Cadillac with no roof in Zion National Park, or eating four times at the worst restaurant on the planet in a broken down industrial town in upstate New York. Good times.

In this case, the UK isn't going anywhere, so whether you spend a week in London in one trip or a week in London across seven trips, you've seen the same amount of London. Do what feels right, change it up next time.

Bolded is me in a nutshell.

Speaking as someone who just spent seven weeks in the UK, and someone who has gotten around a little bit, my philosophy is "no budget no timetable, no schedule." The way I see it, I can always make more money, i can't make more time, especially to come back and see something i missed because it wasn't on the schedule and i was doggedly following the schedule.

Book travel in advance to save money.
Public transport in the UK is great, IF.... you're travelling to, from, or within London. Rent a car if you're going A-B and London is neither.
Diesels get ridiculous fuel economy with a steady foot (i rarely use cruise control) and low speeds. Low speeds because speed cameras.
There are a million more signs for speed cameras than there are signs indicating the actual speed limit.
Roads are narrow (old towns and cities,) and parking is limited. There are cars parked on the street, obstructing the lane. Drivers are generally very good.
Pricing for everything is comparable with stuff here, except it's in pounds, so you're effectively paying 50% more.
Fish and chips come in huge portions.
Agents in the tube and train stations generally know their shit.
Trains are jam packed during commuter hours. You're stuffed in there.
If you're going to another city from London, there are high speed trains with only a few stops, and regular trains which stop at every stop.
Driving during daytime in London in the week incurs a congestion charge.
Peak travel train tickets also cost more.
Oyster cards are only for travel within greater London, zone 1-6. Go outside the zone using one and you'll incur a 20 pound penalty. Even if no one told you. Even if you don't live in London. Even if you're an American. Don't ask me how I know...
Arsenal games are almost impossible to get into. Best to try the Champions league games than EPL.
DO NOT buy 3 cell service. It's the one that's at Heathrow as you exit.
Do use What'sUp, Viber, Facetime and texting etc as much as possible. Calling overseas numbers will devour your minutes.
Either get a shit tone of cash out of the ATM right away and use that, or immediately get a preloaded credit card and use that. Foriegn transaction fees will add up quickly.
The little villages and towns are beyond beautiful. Very scenic. Very tranquil.
Stay on the right on escalators if you're not in a hurry.
People don't yell into their phones everywhere like here in the US. Bus, train, restaurant, open spaces. It was very refreshing.
There is a ton of bicycle commuting. Boris bikes/ bike sharing is big in London with docks and bikes everywhere. I didn't pay attention in other places.

[thesameguy]

Bolded is me in a nutshell.
DO NOT buy 3 cell service. It's the one that's at Heathrow as you exit.
Do use What'sUp, Viber, Facetime and texting etc as much as possible. Calling overseas numbers will devour your minutes.

AT&T has reasonable foreign rates, FWIW. I've never been able to use up their $120 package, and I get to keep my own number. Not *quite* as cheap some of the other options, but it means not worrying, which I am all about. :up:


Either get a shit tone of cash out of the ATM right away and use that, or immediately get a preloaded credit card and use that. Foriegn transaction fees will add up quickly.

Or, use a card that doesn't have foreign transaction fees. For example, Chase Sapphire. Great card!

[M4FFU]

Public transport in any big city (not just London) is perfectly satisfactory. Hire a little eco-box, or something bigger booked [b]well[b] in advanced, and it'll be cost effective driving about for going between stuff. Yes, as someone who commutes into London everyday from outside of it, there is commuter etiquette, but you're foreign and on holiday - like you care. Do what you want, what speed/direction you want - everyone will tut but work around you. Tubes are rammed all day, line dependent. Trains at peak times are - well, it's a tin of sardines. However, I work right next to the Thames, opposite St Pauls and 5 mins from the Shard/London Bridge. It's worth the effort each day. :)

Not sure about the roads being thin. UK hasn't as much space as the US, so, obviously, everything is cosier. Unless you're going down a single track road in the middle of a field you can get a lorry/bus each way down most stuff here, so a car is not a problem.

Agreed about villages. They are very pretty. Which is why I moved to one :D

Download the www.nationalrail.co.uk app on your phone when you're here. All you'll need for UK train/tube travel info/times/etc.

[Jason]

Edinburgh and northern Scotland are the best, highly recommend.

[21Kid]

Although slightly OT, this thread got me thinking about points/miles/whatever. I have an enormous amount of them (I don't take a lot of vacations... ) and I am trying to figure out the most economical way to use them. Between tiered award flights and bizarre airline alliances I am having a hard time feeling confident about what I am doing. I've been reading thepointsguy.com off and on for a while, but wondering if anyone has any recommendations for other places.

By way of example of what I am talking about, I have 160,000 CUR points, which is good for an equal number of miles on many airlines... I could transfer them to United and fly roundtrip to Hawaii for 50,000 miles, OR I could transfer them to British Airways and use their travel partner Alaska Airlines and do the same trip for 25,000 miles. It's a huge difference! It's totally possible these ridiculous machinations are more or less random, but I am wondering if there is rhyme or reason. When I'm talking about booking more expensive flights to a far away place, it would be nice to use less miles or have nicer seats than the opposite. I just find it impossible to feel comfortable in "the right answer."
How One Traveler Took a $60,000 First Class Trip Around the World for $300 (http://www.people.com/article/sam-huang-how-one-man-took-60000-trip-around-world-first-class-suite-for-300)

[thesameguy]

I read that not that long ago - it was linked from thepointsguy.com, which I check out semi-regularly. The crazy maneuverings of airlines with their miles programs is unreal! If I traveled more, I might have a better understanding of what is desirable and what's not. I'm just completely out of touch on the pieces in play. :(

I've thought about calling a travel agent as I would think they'd understand all the things, but calling someone to do something the internet does for you feels backwards. :lol: I am having a hard time getting over that notion.

[21Kid]

Yeah, they seem kind of out-dated. But, I could see how they'd be useful if you wanted to have a fully planned itinerary, and not have to coordinate all of the pieces. Especially if you were going to a place where they spoke a different language.

[thesameguy]

That's generally my thought as well, and why I am having a hard time engaging one for this purpose. I just want someone who knows the ins and outs and booking award travel - what airlines are most favorable for which places and types of travel (just learned the term "open jaw") and how best to get the available seats. I want to believe there is a system, but I could be completely overthinking it. It could be every bit as difficult to wrap one's head around as it seems.

[IMOA]

If you want to know the ins and outs of booking award travel and maximizing points then the best resource is the flyertalk forum with daylight second and third. Travel agents, books, websites and travel/points/flyflat guys either know nothing or recycle old information from flyertalk.

[KillerB]

I hear crankyflier.com are a worthwhile concierge to help you book award travel, but they're not free.

[thesameguy]

Never heard of that place, but a quick perusal shows $240 for them to book two trips using miles. Tough to know ahead of time whether that's worth it! I guess I'd need a better handle on the scale of the trip to know how $240 affects it. It'd be interesting to try, though, and maybe learn something in the process...

[KillerB]

I'm tempted to use them for my Delta miles just because they're just such a nightmare to book with.

I -should- be able to, based on what I see on FlyingBlue, be able to book two round trip tickets to Paris or Rome on Air France on an A380 in business class with my remaining miles. But Delta hides most partner awards if they have a similar flight on Delta metal - but those are inferior seats on an inferior plane with inferior routing, for more miles, plus a MUCH larger fuel surcharge.

I could possibly book by phone but it's apparently hit or miss. The $240 is way less than just the Delta fuel surcharge, so I'm going to eat it, I think.

[thesameguy]

I've experienced what you've experienced - very hard to get straight information on partner flights, and lots of airlines virtually require you to book by phone to get the "good" award travel. Since most of my miles are through CUR, I don't even have one alliance I'm limited to and that sounds like LOTS of phone calls. Ain't nobody got time for that! $240 to not have to spend a day on the phone seems totally worth it. My sole apprehension is a lack of confidence these guys have my best interest in mind versus getting spiffed or something for compromises. You know, I don't inherently trust anyone. However, whether I've screwed myself or been screwed by these guys, I've still been screwed.... and one way means not picking up the phone. I wonder if they'd engage in a brief non-committal, non-specific chat now for a future use for the same $240... just so I know vaguely what I am aiming at.

[IMOA]

FFS, get an expertflyer subscription for a few months and read flyertalk to understand how to get the best out of it. with 10 minutes reading you'll be able to set up expertflyer to hunt for the seats you want and alert you when they come up.

[KillerB]

I've got the opposite issue though - I have x number of miles to use and a date range of when I can go. It's the destination that is the variable.

Considering the value I place on my time, and the fact that I no longer travel for work means that the skills I learn to do this I am unlikely to use again, I'd rather just pay the $240 to someone to do the work for me for two trips.

In your case, IMOA, I would totally agree with you, but my life has changed in ways that I am pretty sure mean I'll never be racking up huge miles again.

FWIW, being a longtime reader of crankyflier, I am pretty confident in the quality of his concierge services.

[thesameguy]

I've got the opposite issue though - I have x number of miles to use and a date range of when I can go. It's the destination that is the variable.

Considering the value I place on my time, and the fact that I no longer travel for work means that the skills I learn to do this I am unlikely to use again, I'd rather just pay the $240 to someone to do the work for me for two trips.

Same boat.

And because reward miles don't equal traveled miles, sometimes you are better off paying cash for a ticket than using miles. I want to use my miles where they are most effective. Two examples I know are real:

It cost $120 on Southwest to fly to Portland, versus 24,000 miles (via CUR). 24,000 miles will get a roundtrip tickets to New York, which is a solid $500 in cash if not more. Reward travel makes no sense here.
it cost $600 to fly to Honolulu, versus 13,000 miles (via CUR via British Airways via Alaska Air). Paying cash makes no sense here.

I don't want to "use up" miles pointlessly. I want to use miles to create a trip that would be difficult to replicate with cash, like that dude Kid posted did... although probably a little less extreme. ;)

I don't travel often enough to spend hours learning something as temporal as rewards travel. By the time I use the knowledge again everything will have changed. $240 to have it *handled* sounds delightful. I just need to work on a window of time. I'm up for going most anywhere... I'll get to it all eventually anyway.

[IMOA]

The description of the trip in the article is highly misleading, takes about 10 seconds of a google search to find the thread on flyertalk where it explains all the expenses that were incurred which they didn't mention. Those articles are just paid advertising for the sorts of services you're looking to massively overpay for.

Anyway, a pro expertflyer subscription costs $10 a month, you put in the city pair, put in what points you want to use, then it runs background searches and send you alerts when seats come available. Or you could pay someone $240 for doing a bit less. Honestly, I value my time as well but at some point you have to value your money and the ability to control what you're doing as well.

[thesameguy]

I would be interested in seeing that thread on flyertalk if you don't mind.

[KillerB]

Ditto. Flyertalk suffers from the same problem as many long-running forums where the best info is years old and impossible to find with their shitty search feature.

[21Kid]

And members will likely yell at you for asking the same questions that have been discussed hundreds of times.

[KillerB]

In for pics of the lady.

They're on Facebook now. :)

[Random]

:toast:

[thesameguy]

Horsecrap. I don't have them shits.

[Kchrpm]

They're on Facebook now. :)

Called it.

[FaultyMario]

Horsecrap. I don't have them shits.

Just some hot-assed mamacita, nothing to see, really.

:assclown:

[Yw-slayer]

Congrats.

[KillerB]

Horsecrap. I don't have them shits.

You might have seen her at Burning Man at some point. :lol:

[FaultyMario]

You might have seen her neikkid at Burning Man at some point. :lol:

There, fixed.

[KillerB]

Okay, here's the basic itinerary:

Landing at LHR on May 23
On the Isle of Skye for the wedding May 29-31
Departing Dublin on June 5

Working to fill in the blanks, but the flights and wedding are booked.

[thesameguy]

Sounds like a good trip! Be sure to share some pics! :)

[Cam]

I hope you have a good time. :)

[Yw-slayer]

Consider renting from avisprestige.com

[DrMekon]

What samoht said. If you do go to York, give me a shout and I'll pop over (I'm close enough to cycle over).

[Yw-slayer]

HE LIVES!

[FaultyMario]

HE LIVES!

Dude, cut him some slack, He's still honeymooning... he's earned those eye bags!