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Freude am Fahren
February 5th, 2016, 05:12 PM
Entry list out: 4 Ford GT's!

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_full_wide/public/08_-_2016_entry_list.png?itok=ZnceaHLI

Only Viper is a reserve :( I hope they can go!

The359
February 8th, 2016, 06:23 AM
Aston Martin potentially switches to Dunlop, which brings a tire war to GTE Pro for the first time. Hopefully this doesn't turn out for Aston Martin like it did when they exclusively went to Pirelli and suffered. Lots of American involvement this year, beyond just the Ford GTs. Shank is going to have a rough time as the only Honda team, and keep in mind it will not be the same motor that just won Daytona.

Kchrpm
February 8th, 2016, 06:44 AM
Look at that LMP2 field!

2ndMoparMan
February 8th, 2016, 06:45 AM
And yet I still don't care about the prototypes. Give me the GT classes anyday, espically if they have a fight like they did at Daytona.

Fogelhund
February 14th, 2016, 08:28 AM
My only gripe would be how far down the reserve list the Viper is.

Rare White Ape
February 14th, 2016, 10:44 PM
It's second reserve in its class, so the chances could go in their favour.

Or are reserves called up as they're ordered in that list irregardless of class?

The359
February 15th, 2016, 06:41 AM
They no longer replace a car from the same category, it's in 1-10 order as listed.

XHawkeye
February 16th, 2016, 05:54 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbVIQMTXIAAajO4.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbVIP76XIAAfQaT.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbWq-DoUAAIPGnx.jpg:large

Rare White Ape
February 17th, 2016, 02:57 AM
It ain't no 3.5L V-10, nor is it a 7L V-8, but it'll do.

Kchrpm
February 17th, 2016, 03:21 AM
As long as you daisy chain it with an 8 MJ, ~400 hp hybrid system.

Rare White Ape
February 17th, 2016, 11:04 PM
I was thinking that it would make a FUCKING AWESOME motorcycle engine on its own, even though it already is an incredible package when paired up with all of the MJs.

Godson
February 18th, 2016, 05:09 AM
I <3 V4s.


Can't wait to hear it.

Kchrpm
February 18th, 2016, 05:34 AM
No need to wait, it's the same one from last year.

Rare White Ape
February 18th, 2016, 08:57 PM
I <3 V4s.


Can't wait to hear it.

I suggest you do your best to get to a MotoGP race this year if you haven't already. The Hondas have a definite banshee wail that's head and shoulders above the rest of the field. The Suzukis, Aprilias and Ducatis (other V-4s) just can't match Honda for hairs-on-your-neck aural eargasms.

Godson
February 21st, 2016, 11:16 AM
I'm going to Austin.

I will be volunteering for the Ducati stands. I'll be there for the 4 days

Rare White Ape
February 21st, 2016, 10:21 PM
Nice x eleventybillion

If you get the chance to take a break from your post and walk around the circuit, I heartily recommend trying to find somewhere that the bikes are fully cranked over on a long 3rd/4th gear corner with lots of throttle just to hear the engines wailing against the traction control. You probably won't hear the TC, because it's so good now, but you'll definitely hear the engines.

Alan P
February 22nd, 2016, 07:01 PM
I can still remember the aural assault at Assen in 2004. Back then it was the 990's rather than the 800's or 1,000's we have now but by far the nosiest of the lot was the Suzuki. It made your insides shake. And not through bass, just pure volume.

Godson
February 23rd, 2016, 06:54 AM
I'll have ear plugs to help protect my hearing. I'm also going with 20+ from my local Ducati chapter that have gone many years in a row to Indy, Austin, and other places too.

Kchrpm
April 1st, 2016, 09:24 AM
I just realized the Corvettes won't be at Detroit, so I need some other way to see them.

GB
April 1st, 2016, 09:59 PM
No Mazda in LMP2? :(

The359
April 1st, 2016, 10:09 PM
Well their diesel from the last few seasons wasn't legal in LMP2, and I don't think they have the money invested from Mazda for a Le Mans program now.

Kchrpm
April 7th, 2016, 06:47 AM
Team AAI's C6.R is getting swapped for a C7.R, which might in fact be the race winner from last year.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/04/07/fourth-corvette-c7-r-for-2016-le-mans-24-hours.html

The359
April 7th, 2016, 08:47 AM
But it's team AAI, so they're going to be backmarkers for the whole race anyway. They qualified last and second to last with two Porsches last year.

Kchrpm
April 7th, 2016, 08:55 AM
Why were they invited? Politics of something?

The359
April 7th, 2016, 09:01 AM
They were given two automatic entries in 2015 for finishing 1st and 2nd in the Asian Le Mans Series GT championship. They were the only team to run all four races.

They have one (not automatic) entry and one reserve this year. Likely for the sake of diversity, to help promote the Asian Le Mans Series as they continue to run multiple GT entries and now an LMP3 effort. They're also the only team to ever represent Taiwan at Le Mans.

Kchrpm
April 7th, 2016, 09:20 AM
So yeah, politically motivated if not solely responsible. Good to know when I will see them doddling around in last.

The359
April 7th, 2016, 09:40 AM
I wouldn't view it as political. The ACO has always said their selections are not based solely on an applicants performance, that they also try to promote diverse and unique entries. It's why they were only given one entry and not two.

Dudley
April 7th, 2016, 11:14 PM
Yeah, there's nothing especially political about giving a single entry to the winner of an official regional series. It's not really the ACO's fault the entry list was a bit pants.

There's a very local car to me in the race, The Beechdeen-AMR in GTE-Am, the company and the owner-driver are from High Wycombe about 10 miles from me.

And of course it's an Aston Martin, named partially after the village Aston Clinton. A place which I could possibly hit with a rock if I threw it well from here.

Kchrpm
April 8th, 2016, 06:17 AM
Thanks for the clarification.

Registered for the National Corvette Museum's LeMans Viewing Party: http://www.corvettemuseum.org/event/lemans-24-hour-viewing-party/

Commercial free coverage on a 28 foot screen in their theater, Skype with the team every hour, two breakfasts, dinner, snacks/refreshments, and hourly prizes. :up: Hopefully Nate will be able to come as well.

Kchrpm
June 2nd, 2016, 09:37 AM
SAFER barriers installed at the Porsche Curves

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/02/le-mans-safer-barrier-debut-motorsports/

Rare White Ape
June 2nd, 2016, 05:27 PM
Cars and teams have arrived at Le Mans and scrutineering has begun.

More great pics at the LM 24H Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/24heuresdumans/?fref=ts

http://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlp1/t31.0-8/13301548_10153887313212912_7593839518713882026_o.j pg

http://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/13320654_10153887313412912_4324767602742301888_o.j pg

http://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13323478_10153887313502912_8386270774779582426_o.j pg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xat1/t31.0-8/13308496_10153888084662912_1431601383830736576_o.j pg

The359
June 3rd, 2016, 05:54 AM
http://johndagys.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/gallery/lm24-thursday-test-2016/VSA_FIA-WEC_TLM16_LC2_0047.jpg

Here's the AAI Corvette that Johnny O'Connell will be driving. Something new for you to paint up, Keef.

Kchrpm
June 3rd, 2016, 07:09 AM
That's...an interesting look. I'll have to find some other angles.

Alan P
June 3rd, 2016, 08:19 AM
Looks weird not in yellow. Like a completely different car.

Rare White Ape
June 3rd, 2016, 05:21 PM
Spotters guides!

http://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13340107_10153890427127912_2200034514675046276_o.j pg
http://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13320883_10153890427137912_4808753925344204296_o.j pg
http://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13316881_10153890427132912_2797363878675417530_o.j pg

Freude am Fahren
June 3rd, 2016, 05:28 PM
Hadn't looked into what Garage 56 was this year. Turns out it's a modified car to allow for a quadruple amputee driver.

The359
June 4th, 2016, 12:16 AM
Well I already know the Murphy Prototypes car will change, it's going to be sponsored by Gas Monkey in black, white, and neon green.

Also, whomever made that spelled Risi wrong...

Here's the Tequila Patron ESM in non-alcoholic colors. I like it better than last year's Rolling Stone car.

http://d2uv4t0ox1pknx.cloudfront.net/fr/wp-content/uploads/galleries/journee-test-vendredi-by-laurent_1/journee_test_2016_113.jpg

XHawkeye
June 4th, 2016, 02:25 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkHeURuXIAAsboS.jpg:large

Here it is ! Let's introduce you the official car picture for 2016 #LeMans24 !

Freude am Fahren
June 4th, 2016, 04:02 PM
When I first saw that picture (actually another one from a lower/closer angle), I thought Audi had brought out a special livery for their second car. That thing looks just like the R18.

The359
June 6th, 2016, 06:48 AM
US broadcast schedule. Majority of the race will be on FS2, which I know a lot of people don't have. Start and finish on FS1 though.

June 18 – 24 Hours of Le Mans (all times ET and subject to change):
FS1 8:30 AM to 2:00 PM
FS2 2:00 PM to 4:30 PM
FS2 6:00 PM to 6:30 PM
FS2 7:00 PM to 7:30 PM
FS2 10:30 PM to 5:30 AM (June 19)
FS1 5:30 AM to 9:30 AM (June 19)

Freude am Fahren
June 6th, 2016, 04:20 PM
At least it's not mostly FSGo, I can't get that because of Dish/Fox sucking.

The359
June 16th, 2016, 11:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKT3vM39Wcg

Little wet at Le Mans...

Tom Servo
June 17th, 2016, 05:15 AM
At least according to my Tivo, that last FS1 bit of coverage is now 2:30AM to 9:30AM, the prior FS2 coverage ending at 2:30 instead of 5:30.

Kchrpm
June 17th, 2016, 06:50 AM
Ford and Ferrari gain 4 seconds between practice and qualifying, after the Corvettes got BOP'd for being too fast.

Result? Ford gets pole, 2nd, 4th and 5th, with a Ferrari 3rd, and the Vettes are in last.

Result? Ford and Ferrari get post-qualification BOP'd, Corvette and Aston get a BOP bump.

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/ford-and-ferrari-were-just-hit-with-bop-penalties-ford-1782156774


Ford and Ferrari were just hit with BoP penalties. Ford got +10kg and less boost, Ferrari got +15kg, while Corvette and Aston got a 0.2mm larger restrictor. Kind of necessary though given this year’s qualifying times vs. last year. Last year, the GT pole sitter ran a 3:54.9 but this year the Fords and 488s are running 3:51s while everybody else is running 3:55s.

More detail/explanation: http://www.racer.com/wec-le-mans/item/130910-lm24-sweeping-pre-race-gte-pro-bop-changes-made

The359
June 17th, 2016, 06:55 AM
Corvette actually got a 0.3mm larger restrictor, but they only have 0.2 size restrictors on them to put in the car.

Kchrpm
June 17th, 2016, 07:02 AM
Yeah, the Racer article has more (and more accurate) info.

Freude am Fahren
June 17th, 2016, 07:34 AM
BoP is stupid anyway for a one-off endurance race. Someone does a ton of testing and simulating and knows what they have, then go sandbag during testing and all of a sudden, they get a huge advantage. It also seems it was the Turbos (Ford and Ferrari) that benefited the most. There's a set of rules. Build your car to it. It's your own damn fault if you get beat. That's the point of racing.

At least they are trying to do something to fix it. Porsche is going to get their ass handed to them in GT though.

Kchrpm
June 17th, 2016, 09:22 AM
It's not really a one-off endurance race, Le Mans is part of the World Endurance Championship.

And the "set of rules" is designed with the intention of different cars being roughly equivalent in total performance. If you set the N/A limit to 5.5 liters, what should the displacement limit be for turbocharged engines? How big should the turbos be? Other turbo related questions!

And Ford already wasn't following the rules: you're supposed to have 250 cars made and available for purchase to the general public through your dealers. There are zero Ford GT's available right now for a consumer to take home, they got a waiver with the promise that the cars will be available in the future.

Freude am Fahren
June 17th, 2016, 12:12 PM
They've been figuring out Turbo vs. N/A balancing for decades.

By the way, my argument is on Chevy's side ;)

Kchrpm
June 17th, 2016, 12:24 PM
But I've been seeing this argument in so many places. People act like it's easy to balance these things out. Other people are complaining, "oh just make it a spec series."

Hey, psst, guess what, you wouldn't care about it then. Have people not figured out the entire point of GT racing? It's not to find out which road car is the best! IT'S TO SELL YOU ROAD CARS. Not because "hey, if the race cars win, that must mean the road cars are better", but because you get to look at them driving around, looking all cool, with fancy paint jobs and wings! Don't they look awesome! I like the way that one looks the best, I hope it wins, but even if it doesn't, that's the one I'd buy!

If you make it a spec series, that doesn't happen. But spec racing is the most exciting! And if we just let companies build whatever with little regulation, the costs go out of control and they'll realize there's not enough return on their investment and pull out. What do we do...

I know! Let's allow all kinds of cars, and then just balance their performance somehow, so the racing is similar to a spec series, but everyone still gets to pick a favorite car to cheer for and then buy a lesser version of!

Genius.

Freude am Fahren
June 17th, 2016, 01:28 PM
Nobody ever said anything about a spec series, just the opposite. Changing the BoP based on practice times is just silly though.

Kchrpm
June 17th, 2016, 01:33 PM
Like I said, I'm responding to comments made elsewhere :)

Rare White Ape
June 17th, 2016, 02:12 PM
I think the GT3 class has got it so, so right. But give it five years and manufacturers will be supplying cars that push the boundaries a little too much and that will be the end of that.

Kchrpm
June 18th, 2016, 05:25 AM
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Z1165ucl4YBCU2IlXm1C2FMIap4gIgjB-lz_g8PKmccR4nOzePs_TgOKB56J0mUodYp56csP1UavVtbL12F cNm4pX4vEjEA3duw2Y2C558R24h5fe7GKqfvwbwAc-ssRmUT8Lba9uVSi2ZwDNcNS3_SeXlKPN2oETRHsUagl-nfDoXsolv1dkbM0rrH_qLfwOzCdd-szdthAMRZJ0NeipyLBKx83M-KnOfW_GNq_Wnoa4ndHLR2n4Of7PZknK6Z3f8Ry73BQva04XHNP _EFcpcZ9p3hwJlZrz2AnAKQMIv2WUVcgF1Vb6_SH8SLUf6Xa5V V1E9uMw8mDF1Imhs-lUFU_Nd8bqFzv__FQ0qy2FfgyLEt6Ul_jFEAKDySX9L-qoqn1dpluzZR2sP7VCEqaNGkw2PHFAWRKXLFd09LAXrqoGZDHe WkC4kxhjEsD1vNBEDWUGihSPuSBtLtThz7tsaZ7xvGU53kwFT3 Jt-3oVoNLFF5WD1WfMTB0ODmRvAO1ILvQ6jR9TVrrQUJkg6iv1-6vnSYziTW4gs7ylrZcQjqnsh3zWmOxzQTdVT8ivlAlIeHif3VR 3c395LlEs1CE6m0ARhNILf3I=w1316-h987-no

Tom Servo
June 18th, 2016, 05:26 AM
They started it on FS2, not FS1, so if like me you were recording FS1, you've missed the start.

So I guess that means I have no idea what channel I should be recording through this. Thanks, Fox Sports.

Tom Servo
June 18th, 2016, 05:38 AM
Okay, figured out their maze of a website enough, this appears to be the *actual* schedule.

(All times Eastern)
FS2 from 8:30AM to 11AM
FS1 from 11AM to 2PM
FS2 from 2PM to 4:30PM
FS2 from 6PM to 6:30PM
FS2 from 7PM to 7:30PM
FS2 from 10:30PM to 2:30AM Sunday
FS1 from 2AM Sunday to 9:30AM

Also, this is the second time in a row I've gone to watch auto racing and found golf on instead.

The359
June 18th, 2016, 05:42 AM
Apparently it was a last minute change made from what I see on Twitter.

I meanwhile paid for the official FIA WEC stream, so no FOX woes. Or commercials!

Tom Servo
June 18th, 2016, 05:52 AM
Man, the only thing I can find on twitter is that FS1 (not Fox Sports) retweeted Speed (which still exists?) mentioning in passing that it's on FS2 at around 4:30AM my time. Don't see any mention of it going to FS1 for the second part of the broadcast.

Rare White Ape
June 18th, 2016, 06:42 AM
Don't have Fox Sports?

Or you have Fox Sports but can't be arsed with their crap scheduling?

You're in luck. There's a livestream video on Ustream and it's here:

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2016/06/watch-the-24-hours-of-le-mans-live-streaming.html

Freude am Fahren
June 18th, 2016, 07:52 AM
I was recording too, so I missed the first two hours of the race for golf. It was because of rain at golf :rolleyes:

The359
June 18th, 2016, 11:17 AM
Don't have Fox Sports?

Or you have Fox Sports but can't be arsed with their crap scheduling?

You're in luck. There's a livestream video on Ustream and it's here:

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2016/06/watch-the-24-hours-of-le-mans-live-streaming.html

User was banned ;)

Kchrpm
June 18th, 2016, 11:25 AM
You guys should have all come to the museum with Nate and I, our livestream is solid :up:

XHawkeye
June 18th, 2016, 12:10 PM
#LM24: LMP1 fuel saving 101 with @Toyota_Hybrid's @antdavidson http://www.racer.com/wec-le-mans/item/130932-lm24-lmp1-fuel-saving-101 …


“I think the cars that we drive today are impressive, but you do have the fuel cuts at the end of the straights, which I still don’t feel comfortable with as a driver,” he said. “It’s a whole different coast philosophy. It’s a bit hazy for a racing driver, and having not done this since I got started driving as an eight-year-old boy, I still find that odd to not push the car right up to the furthest braking point. We still brake as late as we can, but we’re doing it off the throttle for quite some time before we do brake. It’s become necessary, but it feels weird.”

XHawkeye
June 18th, 2016, 12:10 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClKjHGAWgAAzRf1.jpg:large

Le Mans pits, 1923-2016: http://bit.ly/1XtIjYS

The359
June 18th, 2016, 12:23 PM
You guys should have all come to the museum with Nate and I, our livestream is solid :up:

There's apparently a big Jalopnik stream meeting in Manhatten. I'm happy with what I've got going on at home. ;)

The359
June 18th, 2016, 02:22 PM
Schedule changed. Again. Really.


Full schedule (all times ET and subject to change):

- COMPLETED: FS2: 8:30 a.m. to 11 a.m.
- COMPLETED: FS1: 11 a.m. to 2 p.m.
- FS2: 2 p.m. to 4:30 p.m.
- FS2: 6 p.m. to 6:30 p.m.
- FS2: 7 p.m. to 7:30 p.m.
- FS2: 10:30 p.m. to 2 a.m. (June 19)
- FS1: 2 a.m. to 7 a.m. (June 19)
- FS2: 7 a.m. to 9:30 a.m. (June 19)

Rare White Ape
June 18th, 2016, 02:46 PM
User was banned ;)

Well that's annoying. Did you dob them in?

The359
June 18th, 2016, 02:54 PM
No, I just went and checked while the FIA WEC feed was being wonky and it said he was banned.

Tom Servo
June 18th, 2016, 04:44 PM
Schedule changed. Again. Really.

Yech. For some reason, FS2 comes in like watching a poorly encoded version of a PAL video being played on an NTSC setup for me. FS1 looks great, but looks like I'll have the ending in weird, blurry, alias vision.

The359
June 18th, 2016, 04:53 PM
Is your FS2 in HD? Some people only have FS2 in SD.

Audi stopped on the track. One Porsche down, one Audi down. If Toyota blows this gift to them, I'm going to be so pissed.

Rare White Ape
June 18th, 2016, 05:07 PM
The Toyota is only like 45 seconds ahead of the Porsche. They've been swapping the lead all night. It's going to be a tight one!

Tom Servo
June 18th, 2016, 06:19 PM
Is your FS2 in HD? Some people only have FS2 in SD.

Audi stopped on the track. One Porsche down, one Audi down. If Toyota blows this gift to them, I'm going to be so pissed.

It at least appears to be 16:9, so I don't think it's SD. It looks much better than SD, just sorta odd. Like I said, kinda like when you'd try to watch PAL things converted for NTSC.

Kchrpm
June 18th, 2016, 06:34 PM
You should have come to the museum, too ;)

Tom Servo
June 18th, 2016, 08:16 PM
FS2 has not bothered to show the past two half hour stints. They've been running UFC stuff with a ticker telling you to go watch online.

Yeti
June 18th, 2016, 09:32 PM
I've been having to bounce from FS1 to FS2 multiple times on FSGO, which is really cool. You'd think they could just have a dedicated feed for the online GO people.

Rare White Ape
June 18th, 2016, 11:17 PM
I'm watching this currently.

It's one of those dodgy streaming site feeds. Low quality video and audio, but hey, you can't beat free.

http://www.sportingvideo.org/20160618/wv5765ae077b695080358572-1359949.html

I take no responsibility if your computer gets eaten by ad pop-ups.

Rare White Ape
June 18th, 2016, 11:52 PM
Ignore that, I'm watching this:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/gSHHJQaCUPn

It's much much better but the audio is about 5 seconds behind the video.

Alan P
June 19th, 2016, 02:56 AM
I'm watching it in HD, on my 42" Plasma.

Tom Servo
June 19th, 2016, 05:02 AM
Looks like I somehow goofed up manually setting the recording for the finish when it switched to FS2. Probably didn't notice that I had set it to Saturday in the morning instead of Sunday or something. Oh well.

Rare White Ape
June 19th, 2016, 05:06 AM
I don't know what to say about that finish.

Except 'fuck!'

Rare White Ape
June 19th, 2016, 05:08 AM
I don't know what to say about that finish.

Except 'fuck!'

The word 'poo' comes to mind as well.

The359
June 19th, 2016, 05:12 AM
:random:

5th time Toyota has finished 2nd at Le Mans.

This is even worse than Ukyo Katayama blowing a tire while leading the race in the final hour in 1999.

The359
June 19th, 2016, 05:21 AM
And now the car isn't being classified in 2nd because their last lap was too slow, they don't even get to stand on the podium.

Tom Servo
June 19th, 2016, 05:49 AM
Now I'm really sad it didn't get recorded :/

Freude am Fahren
June 19th, 2016, 09:04 AM
My Manual recording stopped with about a minute left. I assume nothing changed from that point? What a heartbreaker.

XHawkeye
June 19th, 2016, 09:05 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClUMug9UsAIme8u.jpg:large

Heartbreak for @Toyota_Hybrid. They were three minutes away from #LeMans24 victory.

XHawkeye
June 19th, 2016, 09:06 AM
@marshallpruett (Link to Tweet: https://twitter.com/marshallpruett/status/744544285429743617): Overheard one Toyota driver say a turbo failure was the cause of the No. 5's terminal problem. Not stating it as fact--just sharing.

XHawkeye
June 19th, 2016, 09:07 AM
@ChrisMedlandF1 (https://twitter.com/f1fanatic_co_uk/status/744548648059539456): Vettel asks the first question of the FIA presser himself:

"Question to anyone, who won Le Mans?"

"How did Toyota lose?!"

"F**k".

XHawkeye
June 19th, 2016, 09:48 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClVJPmsUYAAlmKI.jpg:large

@Passionea300 (https://t.co/t4duxK6fM2): questa è l'immagine simbolo della #LeMans24h

The359
June 19th, 2016, 11:22 AM
So, apparently a bit of a stinker going on in LMGTE Pro. The Risi Ferrari was told to come to the pits to repair its leader lights (the three lights on the door that the ALMS used to use) because it was not displaying correctly, Risi chose to ignore it to hold onto second. Stop & Go penalty was given for ignoring the instruction, team still ignored it and finished the race. Who pointed out the leader lights on the Risi Ferrari? The 68 Ford team that was winning the class.

FIA finds that Risi did not have appropriate time to respond to the instruction, given a monetary fine and allowed to finish 2nd. Risi protests 68 Ford for speeding in a Slow Zone during the race, FIA agrees and gives Ford a 50 second penalty. FIA also finds the 68 Ford had a non functioning wheel sensor, given 20 second penalty, and moves the car to 2nd. Ford protests the FIA's findings in the leader light case again, Risi is given a 20 second penalty and demoted back to 2nd place.

Ferrari has a whole have now filed a protest of the Ford's performance during the race, stating they've gone well beyond the performance envelope for LMGTE cars.

Kchrpm
June 19th, 2016, 12:27 PM
Getting messy. Thanks for the summary :up:

racerfink
June 19th, 2016, 12:34 PM
http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/gte-pro-race-winning-ford-gt-penalized-post-race/

Interesting read in the comment section by somebody who claims to have done the math on the 7% rule. All the Fords AND the Ferrari are within that 7% of the LMP2 fastest lap.

Random
June 19th, 2016, 12:36 PM
They should be protesting the ACO/FIA, no? Ford doesn't set the rules...

Protesting an otherwise legal (we assume) car for being too fast? "Waaaaaaa!" :smh:

edit: if the Ferrari and Ford were both outside the parameters of GTE, it sounds to me like that's the FIA's problem, not Ford's.

The359
June 19th, 2016, 01:01 PM
I imagine they can't directly protest the FIA/ACO, they have to protest something so they protested Ford directly. It all comes down to whether or not Ford were sandbagging, which is against the rules.

balki
June 19th, 2016, 01:11 PM
And now the car isn't being classified in 2nd because their last lap was too slow, they don't even get to stand on the podium.
Can someone explain this rule/its reasoning? The #5 completes more laps than P2-44 but is not classified (basically P45, ahead of only the DNFs)

The359
June 19th, 2016, 01:35 PM
Can someone explain this rule/its reasoning? The #5 completes more laps than P2-44 but is not classified (basically P45, ahead of only the DNFs)

You must complete the last lap of the race in under 6 minutes. It's to stop someone from simply parking their car in the garage and then bringing it out to coast to the finish on the last lap. Since the garages are beyond the finish line, if you parked your car you'd be counting toward your lap time while sitting there.

The359
June 19th, 2016, 01:37 PM
PDF of Stewards Decisions 56, 58, 59, 60, and 61 (http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/Results_NoticeBoard/05_2016/04_Le%20Mans/32_Stewards%20Decision%20Nr%2056%20to%2061.pdf)

XHawkeye
June 19th, 2016, 02:07 PM
@ChrisMedlandF1 (https://twitter.com/f1fanatic_co_uk/status/744548648059539456): Vettel asks the first question of the FIA presser himself:

"Question to anyone, who won Le Mans?"

"How did Toyota lose?!"

"F**k".

Video: https://twitter.com/MrAlexF1/status/744550270017900544/video/1

Random
June 19th, 2016, 02:10 PM
Unverified, but someone on another site noted that one of the Fords was called in for a similar light problem earlier in the race?

The359
June 19th, 2016, 02:34 PM
Unverified, but someone on another site noted that one of the Fords was called in for a similar light problem earlier in the race?

Several cars were called in because the lighted car number board on the side of the car wasn't illuminated. Not sure if one of the Fords was part of that group.

Drachen596
June 19th, 2016, 10:27 PM
Leader lights not working is the dumbest penalty reason ever...

Rare White Ape
June 19th, 2016, 11:59 PM
Video: https://twitter.com/MrAlexF1/status/744550270017900544/video/1

I think Vettel speaks for us all here.

Blerpa
June 20th, 2016, 02:03 AM
Leader lights not working is the dumbest penalty reason ever...

Quite, especially compared to a car that is illegally racing (and winning) in this category as it has NOT produced the minimum 250 road cars required to be eligible to race.
But hey, ACO turned an eye on that and waivered Ford in... PFFFF.

Rare White Ape
June 20th, 2016, 03:13 AM
All of the other teams agreed to it though.

Drachen596
June 20th, 2016, 03:14 AM
Too much political BS in racing anymore it seems... probably been there all along and I'm just seeing it more to be truthful though.

Freude am Fahren
June 20th, 2016, 08:20 AM
All of the other teams agreed to it though.

Exactly. Ferrari, Chevy, Aston, Porsche, they all said, go ahead, Ford. It isn't like this is some small start up car builder. Ford isn't going to go bankrupt and cancel the program.

Kchrpm
June 20th, 2016, 08:43 AM
My problem is less with the 250 cars not being built, especially with the other teams agreeing to it. My problem is with the obvious sandbagging, which is followed by "we weren't sandbagging, we got 5 seconds faster just because we had never actually tried to be fast. Now THOSE guys, THEY'RE sandbagging!" Not to mention intentionally limiting their top speed at Spa with gearing so that they could continue to get performance bumps leading up to LeMans.

I'm sure the other teams didn't sign off on Ford pretending to be slow all season and during all LeMans practices, then going full speed as soon as the times counted.

Freude am Fahren
June 20th, 2016, 08:47 AM
Exactly.

XHawkeye
June 20th, 2016, 09:58 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x15Zhq9XpSg

Click the link for the part of D.Richard's take on GT racing (& balance of performance/GT40) a week before LeMans or go to 47:53

https://youtu.be/x15Zhq9XpSg?t=47m53s

Kchrpm
June 20th, 2016, 01:54 PM
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/20/ferrari-lmp1-prototype-2017-le-mans/

Ferrari to field an LMP1 car for 2017 Le Mans. Confirmed by a motorsports rep for Ferrari.

Sad, little man
June 20th, 2016, 07:16 PM
I gotta say, the whole Ford thing just doesn't feel quite right. The whole season up to now they were struggling and doing mediocre. But, they continued to hype up LeMans to an extreme degree to all of us employees like something amazing was destined to happen. And the whole time I was just kind of dumbfounded. Like, ok, the car has struggled at all of the races its run up to now, yet you guys are still hyping it up like Henry Ford himself is going to come back from the grave and dance around once LeMans hits. Then sure enough, they dominate LeMans. The whole thing is a little too storybook and has left me a bit jaded.

Oh and I think the road car is going to end up being one of the most valuable whips evar since it's becoming increasingly clear that this whole thing was all just a scheme to win LeMans, and so they will probably only bother making as many road cars as they absolutely have to.

Rare White Ape
June 20th, 2016, 09:16 PM
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/20/ferrari-lmp1-prototype-2017-le-mans/

Ferrari to field an LMP1 car for 2017 Le Mans. Confirmed by a motorsports rep for Ferrari.
Linky no worky.

But if true: fuck yeah.

Any guesses on power train setup?

The359
June 20th, 2016, 10:54 PM
Not true. All comes from this guy's Twitter making a false story.

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1606/ferrari-will-not-race-at-le-mans-in-2017/

Drachen596
June 20th, 2016, 11:53 PM
Couple all the stuff with Ford apparently making some sort of documentary about their return to Le Mans...

XHawkeye
June 21st, 2016, 01:17 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClYMRuVUoAEbNah.jpg:large

XHawkeye
June 23rd, 2016, 01:03 PM
...

TOYOTA GAZOO Racing can provide the following information regarding the technical issue which affected the #5 car at the end of the Le Mans 24 Hours:

Car #5 suffered a technical defect on a connector on the air line between the turbo charger and the intercooler, causing a loss of turbo charger control.

The team attempted to modify the control settings to restore power and this was eventually achieved, allowing the car to complete the final lap. However, it was achieved too late to complete that lap within the required six minutes.

Currently it is not clear exactly why this failure occurred as we have verified the process used to produce the part here in Cologne. Further analysis is required to determine the root cause.

It is clear that the issue has no link whatsoever to the engine issues experienced at Spa earlier this season.

Comprehensive investigations are underway at TMG to determine the precise reason for this issue with the aim of establishing countermeasures to avoid any repeat in the future.

The359
June 24th, 2016, 09:25 AM
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/06/24/five-things-to-worry-about-from-the-2016-le-mans-24-hours.html


In the closing stages of the race a senior member of the Ford team entered the Risi Competizione garage with a piece of paper, revealed as an official protest over a non-operational leader light on the side of the #82 Ferrari (below), then running second, behind the leading #68 Ford, and ahead of the #69 and #66 Fords.

Ford’s justification for the protest revolved around the penalty doled out to their #66 car overnight for a non-operational illuminated number panel, both items falling into the same area of regulations, and Ford feeling that the race officials were not dealing with the two issues in an even-handed fashion.

That certainly would have explained a protest, but it does not explain why the Ford representative presented the Risi team with what amounts to an ultimatum.

That was expressed in clear terms and went along the lines of. If you promise not to race us for the win then this protest goes away, If you fight us then we’ll file it immediately.

Kchrpm
June 24th, 2016, 10:16 AM
Lots of good info in that article, not just about the Ford/Ferrari bickering.

Rare White Ape
June 24th, 2016, 03:42 PM
If this happened during a game of cricket the umpire wouldn't take too kindly to it.

Alan P
June 24th, 2016, 05:00 PM
Regarding the BoP, the only way I can see it working for some of the teams and the ACO is to set penalties for sandbagging. Say a 5 second time penalty for every second faster you go. Something really, truly horrific. if you go faster, you go much, much slower. So if, as the article says, the Ford's went five seconds a lap faster, they get a 25 second per lap penalty. or a 10 second hold in the pits for every five seconds they go faster.

Freude am Fahren
June 24th, 2016, 05:26 PM
One way to do it would be for the FIA to get a rolling road wind tunnel/dyno. Have max DF, Min drag coefficient and max HP. Probably completely unrealistic, but fair.

The359
June 25th, 2016, 12:50 PM
Regarding the BoP, the only way I can see it working for some of the teams and the ACO is to set penalties for sandbagging. Say a 5 second time penalty for every second faster you go. Something really, truly horrific. if you go faster, you go much, much slower. So if, as the article says, the Ford's went five seconds a lap faster, they get a 25 second per lap penalty. or a 10 second hold in the pits for every five seconds they go faster.

A penalty does exist if the ACO believes you're sandbagging. I believe it is a 10 minute stop-and-hold penalty during the race.

The359
June 27th, 2016, 07:44 AM
Mazda doing a special livery for the 6 Hours of the Glen in honor of the 25th anniversary of the Le Mans win.

http://johndagys.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/mazdawgi.jpg

Freude am Fahren
June 27th, 2016, 09:07 AM
And a little turn to the knife in Toyotas heart ;)

2ndMoparMan
June 27th, 2016, 05:38 PM
I have to say, I still love that livery. Loud as hell, but it just looks so damn cool.

Freude am Fahren
June 27th, 2016, 06:52 PM
Loud as hell is appropriate when talking about Mazdas :D

Okay, maybe not these ones...

Rare White Ape
June 27th, 2016, 11:50 PM
Those Mazdas look fuckin sweet.

Meanwhile, this is Ford's effort to commemorate winning 50 years ago, and winning this year.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a29733/2017-ford-gt-66-heritage-edition/

SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOONT

http://news.cdn.boldride.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/17041249/1966-ford-gt40-lemans-r162a.jpg

https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13503006_10154421550416091_161374288784037553_o.jp g

Yobbo NZ
June 28th, 2016, 12:39 AM
So much want.
But where is the silver fern on the R/H guard.

Rare White Ape
June 28th, 2016, 12:42 AM
Don't worry about that. Nobody cares about New Zealanders.

The359
June 28th, 2016, 06:12 AM
Porsche testing a twin-turbocharged, mid-engine 911 GTE for 2017 (http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/porsche-testing-2017-spec-911-gte-turbo-at-monza/)


It’s understood the car also features a revised engine and gearbox placement, via waivers from the FIA and ACO, in order to be on a more equal playing field to the new mid-engined cars from Ford and Ferrari.

The only way to really keep up with Ford and Ferrari now.

Kchrpm
June 28th, 2016, 06:21 AM
Not if BoP is used properly...but hey, let's just get back to the GT money pit of old.

dodint
June 28th, 2016, 06:37 AM
BoP, the great equalizer. It makes sports car racing as fun as NASCAR.

Random
June 28th, 2016, 11:02 AM
Wouldn't a mid-engined 911 be a...Cayman?

Freude am Fahren
June 28th, 2016, 11:25 AM
Meh, in as much as a Panamera is a Cayenne. They're both front engine, right? It'll still be bigger, more powerful, styled differently, and targeted at a different purpose/buyer. I bet the "mid" will be further rear as well.

That being said, there were people who thought it wouldn't be entered as a 911, but as Porsche's rumored 650S fighter, whatever that's being called (960?) Porsche seems to dispell that though by calling it a 911.

Random
June 28th, 2016, 11:48 AM
The Cayman and this rumored mid-engined 911 are a LOT closer together than a Panamera and a Cayenne. :p Particularly once you start making them both into race cars.

The359
June 28th, 2016, 04:16 PM
I believe the original rumor was that Porsche was planning to make a new model to base a race car on, a somewhat Lotus Evora-like mid-engine car with rear seats, so bigger than a Cayman.

I also believe this is a turbo flat 6 instead of the turbo 4.

Freude am Fahren
June 28th, 2016, 04:16 PM
Of course, I'm just saying Porsche can have two different cars with a mid-engine. It might not be a 911, but that doesn't mean it's just a Cayman.

Random
June 28th, 2016, 06:35 PM
That idea seems...dumb.

The359
June 28th, 2016, 08:19 PM
I think the small size of the Cayman wouldn't be a good basis for an LMGTE car, especially when you compare it to the aero on the Ford GT. That car is incredibly long compared to its competitors. You'd have to make a homologation special just to keep it eligible if you wanted to add a longer body.

Not that there's anything wrong with homologation specials. Remember, the 911 GT1, despite the name, shared only the front frame and windshield surround from an actual 911.

Rare White Ape
June 28th, 2016, 11:40 PM
They could just build another whale tail.

In all seriousness, they're beginning to delve into the territory that the Carrera GT would've occupied if it were built as a racecar, as it was originally intended.

What about the 918? I know it's not the current weapon du jour at the top end of their lineup, but it would be able to meet homologation and is both large enough and fast enough to be on the level of the Ford GTs.

Or does the answer lie with marketing? The 911 is pushed pretty heavily as a true racing icon, they would lose that if the 911 badge didn't compete at Le Mans, the GT race to be seen in.

Kchrpm
June 29th, 2016, 05:47 AM
Or does the answer lie with marketing? The 911 is pushed pretty heavily as a true racing icon, they would lose that if the 911 badge didn't compete at Le Mans, the GT race to be seen in.
Yep, that. But with word that hybrids will be coming to the GT class in the next year or so, everything could get disheveled. The first company to win their LeMans class with a production-based hybrid is going to have a huge card to play when it comes to marketing.

The ACO and FIA are going to need to make some decisions on what they really want GT racing to be. Is it the relatively inexpensive way for manufacturers to participate directly in endurance racing, with privateers in the same/year old cars in an Amateur class, or are we going back to pretend prototypes with little difference in lap time (or budget)? Or at what point in between?

novicius
June 29th, 2016, 12:19 PM
I'd vote for the former. :up:

Top speeds are great and all but modern production GTs are fast enough to thrill.

Rare White Ape
June 29th, 2016, 03:49 PM
In 1995 the McLaren F1 GTR made its debut and won the race on 298 laps.

In 2016 the Ford GT made its debut and won its class on 340 laps.

So… yeah.

Rare White Ape
June 29th, 2016, 03:52 PM
Additionally, in 1994 the Dauer 962 Porsche won it with 344 laps. Interesting comparison.

The359
June 29th, 2016, 04:09 PM
The 1995 race had 23 hours of rain.

Freude am Fahren
June 29th, 2016, 04:28 PM
Yeah, there's that...

Don't know about qualifying conditions, and the circuit was slightly different (actually quicker I think), but the F1's fastest time was slower than the GT's

Rare White Ape
June 29th, 2016, 06:51 PM
The 1995 race had 23 hours of rain.

Ooh. I didn't know that!

How about 1996?
Winner: Porsche LMP1, 354 laps
2nd (GT1 winner): Porsche 911 GT1, 353 laps
...
4th: McLaren F1 GTR, 338 laps

That's probably a fairer comparison. It still shows that the Ford GT (and for that matter, the Ferrari it raced against) is very much on-par with the F1, and if we had a magical melding of eras then it would be a good rivalry. But note that it doesn't take into account so many things. So. Many. Things.

There's also a hint towards how the GT1 category went really silly, really quickly, such that in only a few years they went from looking like road cars that took inspiration from the F-40, to cars that were so close to flat-out sportscars that they might as well have been LMP1s.

Kchrpm
June 29th, 2016, 07:45 PM
I believe the Ford is not as fast as the GT1 cars of those times, but more reliable.

The359
June 29th, 2016, 08:19 PM
Reliable indeed, the 1990s were still a time of teams taking it easy during the race to make sure the car survived. Modern GTs are on full pace all the time.

I'm also not sure if the track is slower now. Several repavings have smoothed it out, and extended run-offs at Dunlop Chicane, Arnage, and the Porsche Curves mean the drivers are exiting the corners at higher speeds than they used to. The track is slightly longer because of the new Esses, but I dont think it slows them too much.

Freude am Fahren
June 29th, 2016, 08:43 PM
The best comparison would probably be Qualifying times, not race distance for speed.

Also the problem with the old GT1 was the "road car" part was a joke. Million dollar cars with only 25 examples. I don't really have a problem with them being crazy exotic and fast, and even expensive (to a point), but they should have to be made in numbers, maybe even 4-digit numbers. That encourages the road cars being made into race cars, rather than the other way around. (There could be exceptions, if the manufacturers agree it's in that spirit. The F1 for example never even got to 100).

Hell, I loved the GT1 category in the 90s, but it wasn't sustainable unfortunately at the time. These days with the road cars like the 488 and GT where they are, it's not that crazy. Don't forget the McLaren F1 was not made to be a race car.

Also, the top running category has gotten so much faster, it's not like a new GT1 class would be mixing it with the LMP1s

The359
June 29th, 2016, 09:10 PM
In 1995 the fastest GT1 qualifying time was 3:55.150 from a Ferrari F40 GTE, 6th fastest qualifying time from all categories. Ferraris were also 7th and 8th. The fastest McLaren was the winning car at 3:57.180 in 9th.

In 1996 the fastest GT1 qualifying time was 3:47.132 from a Porsche 911 GT1, 2nd fastest qualifying time from all categories. The fastest McLaren was the Bigazzi car at 3:48.264 in 6th.

In 1997 the fastest GT1 qualifying time was 3:43.363 from a Porsche 911 GT1 Evo, 2nd fastest qualifying time from all categories. The fastest McLaren (long tail) was the BMW Motorsport car at 3:45.402 in 6th.

In 1998, the last year of GT1, the fastest GT1 qualifying time was 3:35.544 from a Mercedes-Benz CLK LM, and pole position overall. The fastest McLaren was the Gulf Team Davidoff cat at 3:50.566 in 23rd.

For comparison, here are the fastest qualifiers since the introduction of LMGTE in 2011 to replace LMGT2:

2011, 3:57.592 for BMW.

2012, 3:55.393 for the Luxury Racing Ferrari.

2013, 3:54.635 for Aston Martin.

2014, 3:53.700 for the AF Corse Ferrari.

2015, 3:54.928 for Aston Martin.

2016, 3:51.185 for Ford.

XHawkeye
July 1st, 2016, 04:47 AM
http://17727-presscdn-0-16.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/2016LM24_MarshallPruett_618_-3583.jpg

@marshallpruett (https://twitter.com/marshallpruett/status/748503735656128513) MP PODCAST: Toyota's Anthony Davidson, Le Mans Heartbreak https://t.co/UeeJTF0PsE Mad respect for @antdavidson.

Kchrpm
July 20th, 2016, 09:30 AM
The timing of this blogger/photographer finding this old article of his is perhaps somewhat convenient, given the Ford GT's recent success. The situations are quite different in the details, though.

http://www.doubledeclutch.com/?p=10162

Rare White Ape
July 20th, 2016, 01:35 PM
That was an informative read. My mid-90s knowledge of sports car racing outside of Le Mans is pretty lacking. I was all wrapped up in F1 and CART IndyCars back in the day.

The359
July 20th, 2016, 04:18 PM
It was a period of great flux, between IMSA GTPs and Group C/World Sportscar Championship dying, and eventually LMP taking over in 1999 when the American Le Mans Series came around and the FIA GT championship solidified itself in 2000. A lot of cars and series and loopholes came and went very quickly back then.

Freude am Fahren
July 20th, 2016, 04:44 PM
Mid-90's were when I really got into racing outside what I was exposed to by my dad (NASCAR, some drag racing). I loved cars already, so I was naturally drawn to sportscar racing. Open wheelers didn't really interest me that much, because they didn't have any connection to road cars. I remember watching an F1 race briefly when I was about 8-9. Pretty sure it was Imola, must have been '95. Got bored of it. Then I saw learned about Sebring through a friend that went that year (maybe '96), and started trying to catch FIA GT or Le Mans, or whatever, whenever I could. That was a great time to get into it. Cars like the F1, which was on its way out, the new GT1's from Porsche, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, etc. were just the coolest machines to me. Though it was hard to do in the U.S., I did my best to follow as much of FIA GT, BPR, USCCR (?), ALMS, etc. Had no idea of the politics of any of that stuff though. I was only in my early teens, and just loved the cars.

The release of SCGT and TD:LM only acted to cement my love.

Rare White Ape
July 20th, 2016, 08:04 PM
Oh yeah those racing sims are like a snapshot of an era.

Slightly clunky and primitive in today's standards, but a snapshot nonetheless.

XHawkeye
August 31st, 2016, 01:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq9mbmKVYAARHIJ.jpg:large

If you ever wonder why the cars look the way they are - visual of the technical regulations (body work) LMP1 #WEC (https://twitter.com/LMPone/status/769948442672058369)

Alan P
August 31st, 2016, 02:25 PM
I'm trying to work out the colours and what they mean.

yellow I'd assume means unrestricted views, Blue is restricted I'd guess, green is mandated by regulation?

Rare White Ape
August 31st, 2016, 03:41 PM
Yeah I wish this had a basic explainer so that we could see what's going on.

I know they're required to have the blanking panels behind the rear wheels and the large stabilising fin on the back, and the rear wing cannot be larger than the boxes. The wheelbase would be more accurately described as a range of allowed distances I guess, rather than a fixed a or b. The blue panel between the front wheels would mean "don't build below here," while the tan boxes along the side would probably mean "side intrusion goes here somewhere."

I'm having a wild guess at the light blue squares behind and on top of the cockpit; is that an area where the cockpit profile must fill at least x-percentage of that cross section? I.E. you can't make the cockpit too narrow in the hunt for airflow over the back wing.

The things that have me the most perplexed are the areas above the wheels, and the two purple half-cylinders above the cockpit. Another interesting part is that the floor all the way from the front to the back looks like it might be a definite mandated shape. I could be wrong tho :cool:

Random
August 31st, 2016, 04:20 PM
You can download a pdf of the technical regulations from teh FIA's website, FWIW: http://www.fia.com/fia-wec-technical-regulations-lmp1-prototype-2016

The squares above the wheels are the locations of mandatory body cutouts.

The funky shapes in and around the cockpit deal with cockpit sight lines (in yellow), as Alan suggested, and cockpit access template dimensions (the blue with the pink half cylinders).

Alan P
August 31st, 2016, 04:21 PM
All the current cars have open sections at the top of the front fenders where there's no bodywork:
http://cdn-2.motorsport.com/images/amp/0JRoPpy0/s6/lemans-press-conference-for-the-24-hours-of-le-mans-and-wec-2016-porsche-919-hybrid-rgr-sp.jpg

or what Random said.

Actually looking at the picture and having had a little read through the regulations, Blue appears to be unrestricted. There's no minimum or maximum wheelbase requirements in the regulations and it would also suggest why Nissan were so focussed on the front of their LMP1 car/disaster. It appears that the areas in blue are a free-for-all.

Rare White Ape
August 31st, 2016, 06:52 PM
Ah cool, the cockpit access makes sense, since they would have a need to be able to easily extract a driver in a hurry.

And so the openings in the fenders above the front wheels are mandatory? I had no idea of that! I thought it was just done as a normal aerodynamics thing, because letting air out there helps reduce lifting on the bodywork there and increases downforce. Maybe it's like the flaps on the roofs of NASCARs that prevent the cars flipping in certain situations.

What about the openings over the rear wheels? Are they optional? And I'm still in the dark about the shape of the panels above the rear wheels. What's with the vertical panel on the inside of this section? Why so many questions? I hate question marks?

Random
August 31st, 2016, 08:06 PM
The openings over the rear wheels are mandatory as well. The Porka has louvres over the opening. They are open on the car next to it.

Freude am Fahren
August 31st, 2016, 09:21 PM
You must have an opening either above or beside the wheels for blowover-prevention purposes. They may have limited it just on top in '16 based on the graphic though. Louvres aren't allowed, 919's are just out of sight because of the angle.

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/340/583/6/S3405836/slug/l/2015-porsche-919-hybrid-lmp1-08-1.jpg

The359
August 31st, 2016, 09:45 PM
Yes, the rear fenders can have openings on top or in the inboard of the fender. They are there to help prevent aero-induced rollovers when cars go sideways by preventing air from building up in the fenders. They were introduced the same time as the rear fin was mandated.

I believe the fact that they are not visible in the first picture is that appears to be the 2014 show car, while the second picture is the 2015 race car. The sculpting of the vents on the sidepods are different as well.

XHawkeye
October 14th, 2016, 06:10 PM
https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=HBifAWh0dHBzOi8vc3RhdGljLmdvb2R3b29kLm NvbS9nbG9iYWxhc3NldHMvLnJvYWQtLXJhY2luZy9jb2x1bW5p c3RzL2FuZHJldy9vY3RvYmVyL3dlYy9hdWRpX2xlX21hbnNfMj AwMF9maW5pc2hfbGF0XzE0MTAyMDE2MDEuanBnP2Nyb3A9KDAs MCwyMzAwLDEyOTQpJndpZHRoPTgwMBTADBTEBhwUhAYUlAMAAB YAEgA&s=PhCfyNW79IUhSCC4fHCP43E03qhljjCeaKoMX2cuR5Y

With #Audi's possible exit, is the #WEC heading for a crisis? Asks @Andrew_Frankel (https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/columnists/andrew-frankel/2016/10/thank-frankel-its-friday--is-sportscar-racing-heading-for-a-crisis/)

The359
October 14th, 2016, 08:13 PM
Why would it be a crisis? Toyota and Porsche have showed no signs of leaving, and BMW is entering LMGTE in 2018.

Kchrpm
October 26th, 2016, 06:43 AM
Audi confirms they're leaving the WEC for Formula E so they can shift their focus from the development of diesel/hybrids to electric vehicles.

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/audi-dumps-the-endurance-race-it-conquered-for-electric-1788228181

With Porsche still in WEC, and the diesel scandal looming large over VW, this seems like a reasonable choice.

Freude am Fahren
October 26th, 2016, 07:32 AM
Yeah, not surprised much. But I kinda thought they might go for an all electric Le Mans program.

Fogelhund
October 30th, 2016, 10:07 AM
Audi confirms they're leaving the WEC for Formula E so they can shift their focus from the development of diesel/hybrids to electric vehicles.

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/audi-dumps-the-endurance-race-it-conquered-for-electric-1788228181

With Porsche still in WEC, and the diesel scandal looming large over VW, this seems like a reasonable choice.

Interesting public statement, though not really accurate. Leaving WEC, entering Formula E... accurate... leaving for.. not really accurate. Doesn't matter much.

The359
October 30th, 2016, 11:09 AM
Well they have been involved in Formula E, they're just upping it to a full factory team now.

I think this raises a lot of questions though. Toyota have already said they're going to try for 3 cars at Le Mans, Porsche had stated they planned for only 2, but could the money saved by dropping Audi's program allow for a 3rd Porsche now?

Webber is retiring, Porsche said they want one of their own drivers for the seat, but could they scalp someone from Audi's roster of known winners? All six drivers obviously aren't going to go to Formula E, and I don't think there's enough DTM seats for all of them.

Where does Joest go? Abt Sportline is running the Formula E program, and Audi has a full contingent of teams in DTM. Run a GT3 program somewhere, I guess?

Blerpa
October 30th, 2016, 11:45 PM
and I don't think there's enough DTM seats for all of them.

Surely there are not: next season of DTM will see grid shrink from 24 to 18 cars, it was officialized today or yesterday.

The359
October 31st, 2016, 03:09 PM
Yes, and now rumors of VW's WRC program getting the axe too...

Rare White Ape
November 1st, 2016, 02:34 AM
You have to save money somewhere when you get caught for misleading thousands of consumers and legislators across the world.

Blerpa
November 3rd, 2016, 10:42 AM
Yes, and now rumors of VW's WRC program getting the axe too...

I think it is 99% certain.
Also Lada is leaving WTCC, so the series will have only Volvo and Honda as manufacturers involved by 2017 onward.

The359
November 6th, 2016, 07:43 PM
Regarding Joest, this came up in an interview about Joest's options as an independent team:


One of the early options that Juttner has explored is putting together a LMP1 non-hybrid program, potentially as a stop-gap measure to keep as much as its 45 full-time staff employed.

He’s even gone as far to mention the possibility of utilizing Audi’s 2017-spec R18 as a base, with its hybrid and diesel combustion engine stripped out and replaced with a customer gasoline powerplant.

The car, which goes by the internal name of “RP7”, is understood to have been nearly completed prior to the decision by the Audi board to pull the plug on its factory LMP1 program at the end of the season.

Be interesting to see how they could modify a diesel hybrid 4WD car into a gasoline RWD LMP1 car. I'd say its too far fetched, it'd have to be easier just to scratch build a car or even buy someone else's. Rebellion is leaving LMP1 Privateer, they could easily buy those cars.

Rare White Ape
November 6th, 2016, 11:06 PM
That would be cool, to have a proper noisy engine again.

Regarding the 4WD in the R18, is it conventionally transferred, i.e by drive shafts from the gearbox, or is it hybrid powered with electric motors up front?

Alan P
November 7th, 2016, 05:43 AM
I believe electric up front, conventional at the rear. I'm happy to be corrected but I believe the regulations actually forbid conventional 4WD.

Freude am Fahren
November 7th, 2016, 06:50 AM
I think you're right. Also, who knows how far the 2017 car was. Adjusting design might not be too difficult in this direction, since you're just taking things away, rather than adding. In the end it may end up being heavier or draggier than a ground up, but that may be made up for in superior downforce and mechanical grip. I imagine the toughest part would be the rear end where everything bolts to the engine/gearbox, which would be different, unless the R18 has more of a rear subframe design.

Rare White Ape
November 7th, 2016, 07:18 AM
Well, we are discussing a professional racing outfit here. All these problems and more have already been thought through. They'll have solutions for daaaaayyyyyzzzzz.

The359
November 7th, 2016, 08:17 AM
“The RP6 is the car we have now and the RP7 is nearly ready. You can take the hybrid system and engine out.

“We are [looking at it] but this car is built around the fuel cell of a diesel. So you cannot just pump 20 more liters in. It’s not so easy.

There must be some sort of driveshaft system to the front wheels because Audi was attempting to disconnect the front driveshafts when the hybrid system on their car failed in Fuji. And removing that system is obviously going to compromise any car they do come up with. I seem to remember the first Toyotas had accomodations for a front drive shaft because Toyota had yet to decide how to distribute their hybrid power, which compromised the design of the car when they weren't utilized.

Freude am Fahren
November 7th, 2016, 08:24 AM
I believe there is one electric motor in the center of the nose, with driveshafts out to the wheels.

Actually, I have no idea if it's one or two motors now that I think about it. But no mechanical connection to the ICE I'm pretty sure.

The359
November 7th, 2016, 10:41 AM
Is it not connected to the gearbox? I remember Nissan's FWD car had two driveshafts out of the gearbox for the front and rear.

Rare White Ape
November 7th, 2016, 11:39 AM
That one wasn't a hybrid though, was it?

Freude am Fahren
November 7th, 2016, 01:14 PM
I think it was supposed to be, but couldn't get it to work, so it ended up being an under-powered front biased AWD (or was it just FWD?)

The359
November 7th, 2016, 03:33 PM
The rear drive was only going to be for the hybrid output, but I don't believe it was ever tested in full configuration.

I just remember that thr ICE had a drive shaft running past it from the front mounted gearbox to the rear wheels.

Rare White Ape
November 7th, 2016, 10:21 PM
Yeah, the problem came with the elaborate setup they used to keep the drive shafts out of the aero tunnels through to the rear. It was the gearing at the wheel hubs or something that kept braking on them.

I could check this but CBF'd, but it had KERS or something at the gearbox, and sent that to the rear end via drive shafts, so that was all connected to the main drive train. Other cars have battery (or capacitor) powered electric motors close to the wheels which aren't connected to the drive train.

So in summary, they're going to re-purpose an Audi chassis as a pure 2WD petrol and lose the diesel engine-rear and hybrid-front setup. As long as they account for the change in weight distribution, the car will handle much the same as it was designed from the beginning, except it'll be down on torque, there will be no assist to pull it out of slow corners, and they're hampered by a fuel tank that is too small for decent fuel usage from a petrol engine.

Rare White Ape
November 15th, 2016, 04:01 AM
Porsche is unveiling the new mid-engined 911 RSR at the LA Auto Show tomorrow.

Here's a teaser sketch they put out.

http://roa.h-cdn.co/assets/16/46/1479148287-rsr.jpg

It's from here, if you can't see it: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/los-angeles-auto-show/videos/a31553/the-mid-engine-porsche-911-rsr-is-coming-and-it-sounds-fantastic/

The359
November 15th, 2016, 09:35 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI2-YYragzY

It's already been out testing at Sebring.

The359
November 16th, 2016, 09:32 AM
http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/porsche-reveals-mid-engined-911-rsr/

Confirmed as mid-engined, but not turbocharged as was originally conjectured. Same old Flat-6.

FaultyMario
November 16th, 2016, 07:26 PM
The IMSA Mazda looks cool.

Kchrpm
November 30th, 2016, 06:17 AM
Since we're using the 2016 thread for 2017 car announcements, I shall add Cadillac's return to prototype racing, the Cadillac DPi-V.R. Powered by a 6.2 liter "Cadillac" V8 (which is just the Corvette DP motor, but technically has stuff in common with the Escalade and CTS-V engines), built to IMSA's new DPi spec, and being run by Wayne Taylor Racing and Action Express Racing.

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/here-is-cadillacs-glorious-return-to-prototype-racing-1789511965

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/ghhixosy1bnz3bfrs2gu.jpg

Godson
November 30th, 2016, 07:52 AM
:(

CudaMan
November 30th, 2016, 09:08 AM
Frowny face? That looks freakin' sweet. :)

Freude am Fahren
November 30th, 2016, 11:17 AM
Much more WEC LMP1 looking compared the Mazda's LMP2 look.

Godson
November 30th, 2016, 09:51 PM
Frowny face? That looks freakin' sweet. :)

I see this and all I can think about was the last Cadillac LMP. How GM ripped it apart as it started to make ground.

The359
November 30th, 2016, 10:05 PM
For comparison, here's how the "standard" Dallara LMP2 looks, on which the Cadillac is based:

http://johndagys.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Livery-Cetilar-Villorba-Corse-Dallara-LMP2-2017-01-copy.jpg

Different headlights and sidepods are the only real changeover.

Random
December 1st, 2016, 10:53 AM
Since we're using the 2016 thread for 2017 car announcements, I shall add Cadillac's return to prototype racing, the Cadillac DPi-V.R. Powered by a 6.2 liter "Cadillac" V8 (which is just the Corvette DP motor, but technically has stuff in common with the Escalade and CTS-V engines), built to IMSA's new DPi spec, and being run by Wayne Taylor Racing and Action Express Racing.

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/here-is-cadillacs-glorious-return-to-prototype-racing-1789511965

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/ghhixosy1bnz3bfrs2gu.jpg

Jeff Gordon gonna run in one at the 2017 Daytona 24. :cool:

dodint
December 2nd, 2016, 11:16 AM
F Wayne Taylor and his nerdface sons.

The359
December 2nd, 2016, 07:49 PM
Tell us how you really feel.

dodint
December 4th, 2016, 08:16 AM
I loathe anyone that whines more than me, and Wayne Taylor is in that group.

The359
December 4th, 2016, 08:36 AM
So for those that didn't hear, Porsche demoted 2016 WEC World Champions and Le Mans winners Marc Lieb and Romain Dumas out of the LMP1 program, they're going back to GT racing and "brand representatives" for....reasons. So with the retirement of Webber, Porsche needed three new drivers.

2015 Le Mans winners Earl Bamber and Nick Tandy have been promoted to the program, while Andre Lotterer has been picked up from Audi. Porsche also confirmed there will absolutely not be a third car at Le Mans.

For the new mid-engine 911 RSR, Porsche has managed to sign away Dirk Werner from BMW and Laurens Vanthoor from Audi.

Toyota meanwhile has potentially four driver seats available as Stephane Sarrazin is possibly stepping down, plus seats in the third car for Le Mans and some other races. Rumor is current WTCC champion Jose Maria Lopez is a front-runner for the third car, alongside his new Formula E program. So potentially a lot of seats for former Audi drivers.

Am I the only one who notices that nearly every FIA World Championship series has suddenly lost either their defending drivers champions or defending manufacturers champions for next year?

dodint
December 4th, 2016, 08:45 AM
Ouch, Hand (last year) and Werner. Bit of turnover at BMW. Can't really blame the drivers when the manufacturer support isn't great.

The359
December 4th, 2016, 09:09 AM
Have to wonder who BMW is going to pick up for their WEC program in 2018 if they keep shedding drivers.

Freude am Fahren
December 4th, 2016, 10:10 AM
I hear there's a pretty good German driver who just left his previous job :lol: Another one suddenly has an opening Le Mans weekend this year, maybe next year too?

The359
December 4th, 2016, 11:54 AM
The only problem for Hulkenberg is that it's easier to get a team like Force India to let you go drive for an OEM than it would be for Renault.

Rare White Ape
December 4th, 2016, 05:27 PM
Those Toyota seats, while not as desirable as a Porsche seat, could have potential for a sneaky Le Mans win next year.

The359
December 4th, 2016, 07:57 PM
One of the Toyota seats will be a full-season drive, so it's the most desirable one of the lot.

dodint
December 5th, 2016, 07:11 AM
Anyone else going to the 24LM watch party at the NCM this year? I did it with Keith last year and it was really great, especially for the price. I have no idea how/if they make money on it.

Kchrpm
December 5th, 2016, 11:24 AM
I agree with the things he said.

Godson
December 5th, 2016, 05:46 PM
I'd be interested

dodint
December 5th, 2016, 07:02 PM
Doooo iiiiit.

The359
December 5th, 2016, 07:45 PM
Kentucky is a little distant. Jalopnik apparently has a good viewing party in NYC.

dodint
December 5th, 2016, 07:52 PM
I'm halfway, you can ride with me if you want.

Not sure if I would take the MINI or the 5-series, hah.

Godson
December 5th, 2016, 10:02 PM
I can make the trip on one tank of fuel. :)

Kchrpm
December 6th, 2016, 04:53 AM
Kentucky is a little distant. Jalopnik apparently has a good viewing party in NYC.
Yeah, I sent the articles about it to the NCM event organizer as an example of new ideas for next year. I also suggested some kind of competition between the various events, like an online race our similar, since the Jalopnik event was Porsche-sponsored.

dodint
December 6th, 2016, 05:25 AM
Hmmm, Porsche sponsored?

I might go with Matt instead...

Godson
December 6th, 2016, 09:51 PM
I see how it is. Fucker.

dodint
December 7th, 2016, 04:00 AM
You have no idea what it's like being surrounded by all those Chevy people. Keith got an old lady to yell at me for owning BMWs while we were in line for a hot fudge sundae!

Now that I have a MINI I'm scared to go back.

Kchrpm
December 7th, 2016, 06:58 AM
No, she yelled at you because you were claiming superiority based on naming convention.

dodint
December 7th, 2016, 07:51 AM
She literally said it was still okay for me to be there even though I drive 'lowly BMWs.'

I'm still right about the naming thing.

Kchrpm
December 7th, 2016, 07:56 AM
Yeah, but you started it.

Tell me more about 4-door 4-series BMWs, btw.

dodint
December 7th, 2016, 08:05 AM
*cough*

Anyway, yeah, there is like a 95% chance I'm going to the NCM for 24LM again this year. I look forward to hanging out with anyone that wants to go. In fact, I'm going to book a hotel (for the night prior) right now. There was a pop concert in town last year and everything was slammed.

Would there be any interest in doing an RV? I'd have to run the numbers but it might be worth pursuing. But with the NCM giving you more than enough food and enough place to sleep (bring an air mattress if you want) it might not be worth it.

Godson
December 7th, 2016, 07:47 PM
Just let me know what the plans are. It is June 20th?

Kchrpm
December 8th, 2016, 04:20 AM
17th and 18th

http://www.corvettemuseum.org/event/lemans-24-hour-viewing-party/?instance_id=589

dodint
December 8th, 2016, 04:37 AM
Just let me know what the plans are. It is June 20th?

The realistic plan is I'll leave work early on Friday and drive to Keiths in my MINI (or DMC-12...), and we'll head down to Bowling Green that night. Stay in a hotel Friday and get to NCM early on Saturday. Stay in the NCM on Saturday, leave back to Keiths on Sunday and then drive home. If we want to expand it out into a bigger thing I'll need to know at least a few weeks beforehand.

Do any of us have a car big enough for more than two people? :lol: If Ash is living with me I may bring the 5-series. Won't know that for a few months though. It's possible Ash might go now that our situation has changed. Too early to tell though.

Kchrpm
December 8th, 2016, 06:35 AM
Oh god, I'd be the shortest person on that road trip...

Godson
December 8th, 2016, 11:15 AM
I have an f150 platinum. I can fit 5 total. In comfort. With heated seats. ;)

Kchrpm
December 8th, 2016, 11:27 AM
Genuine question: what has more rear legroom, a Mazda 3 or an F150 Platinum?

Random
December 8th, 2016, 03:07 PM
Which cab on the F150?

Godson
December 8th, 2016, 06:55 PM
Super crew (4 door)

2012 f150 rear leg room 43.5in
2013 Mazda 3 rear leg room 36.5

Random
December 8th, 2016, 07:22 PM
:up:

The359
December 13th, 2016, 08:31 AM
All of the LMP2 cars have been unveiled now, as well as almost all the DPi variants, so here's a comparison between them all. And for those that haven't kept track, the Cadillac is the Dallara, the Mazda is the Riley, and the Nissan will be a Ligier.

Dallara "P217" - Sculpted sidepods, upright headlights, low but open horizontal nose, long horizontal brake ducts next to nose, square roof intake, long rear wheel arch.
http://johndagys.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/elmstesting.jpg
http://johndagys.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/DallaraLMP2.jpg

Cadillac DPi-V.R - Straight, angular sidepods, rounded headlights with LED strip, low but open nose, square roof intake, long rear wheel arch.
http://www.dailysportscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Action-Express-Cadillac-Dallaras-2.jpg
http://johndagys.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/gallery/IMSA%3A-Daytona-December-Monday-2016/121216_IMSA_DECtest_BC7960.jpg

Riley-Multimatic Mk.XXX - Straight sidepods with less undercut, rounded headlights, high open nose, small brake ducts next to nose, square roof intake, medium length rounded rear wheel arch.
http://www.dailysportscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Riley-Mk-30.jpg
http://johndagys.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/gallery/IMSA%3A-Daytona-December-Tuesday-2016/121316_IMSA_DECtest_BC12350.jpg

Mazda RT-24P - Much more sculpted, open sidepods, small aggressive headlights, low rounded open nose, long horizontal brake ducts next to nose, square roof intake, smoother rear wheel arch.
http://johndagys.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/gallery/IMSA%3A-Daytona-December-Monday-2016/121216_IMSA_DECtest_BC8049.jpg
http://johndagys.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/gallery/IMSA%3A-Daytona-December-Monday-2016/121216_IMSA_DECtest_BC8013.jpg

Ligier JS P217 - Very sculpted, curvy sidepods, upright front fenders and bubble lights, high open nose, "upside-down" arched roof intake, shallow smooth rear wheel fender.
http://johndagys.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/fans2.jpg
http://johndagys.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/ligierDaytona.jpg

"Nissan DPi" - Unknown, not yet revealed.

Oreca 07 - Straight sidepods with very few openings, vertical front fenders and vertical square headlights, low nose with no opening, brake ducts under headlight, square roof intake, long squared rear wheel arch.
http://johndagys.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/fans3.jpg
http://www.dailysportscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/JDC-Miller-Oreca.jpeg

Godson
December 13th, 2016, 11:31 AM
I think the Mazda is the best looking. After watching the IMSA cha Mel on FB, I think the beat sounding goes to the Caddy.

The359
December 13th, 2016, 11:53 AM
I saw some video as well, and I think the Cadillac sounds almost exactly like the old Corvette DP. Which it should, really.

Alan P
December 13th, 2016, 04:12 PM
They all look very nice indeed.

Rare White Ape
December 15th, 2016, 03:04 AM
Are these all racing at Daytona?

Kchrpm
December 15th, 2016, 03:18 AM
Yep.

Rare White Ape
December 15th, 2016, 03:35 AM
Oh that's awesome.

I imagine they're quite a bit faster than what has been racing there in the last ten years.

Kchrpm
December 15th, 2016, 04:04 AM
Going by test times this week, looks like they're a few seconds faster.

The359
December 15th, 2016, 08:48 AM
Are these all racing at Daytona?

All except the base Dallara. No one in the US has bought one and no one from Europe that has one is coming to Daytona.

Thus far, 3x Oreca, 3x Cadillac, 2x Mazda, 2x Nissan, 1x Ligier, 1x Riley.

XHawkeye
December 16th, 2016, 02:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4cJCiYvgeo

The359
December 17th, 2016, 11:34 AM
http://www.dailysportscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Audi-LMP1-R18-2017.jpg

Audi's cancelled 2017 car. Much the same in the front, but lots of new aero in the sidepods and very different rear wing struts.

XHawkeye
December 19th, 2016, 04:36 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0CzFhUW8AATVmC.jpg:large

The359
December 19th, 2016, 07:39 PM
Only one of those cars actually won a race ;)

Tom Servo
December 20th, 2016, 05:38 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0CzFhUW8AATVmC.jpg:large

Want to touch.

The359
December 21st, 2016, 08:31 AM
http://johndagys.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/gtr.jpg

Here's Nissan's DPi, supposedly the second design after the first one was rejected.

dodint
December 21st, 2016, 08:56 AM
They should probably try for "third times a charm."

The359
December 21st, 2016, 08:58 AM
Yeah, the more I look at it, the more it looks like they added that large aero panel on top of the existing Ligier nose.

http://johndagys.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/gtr1.jpg

Sidepods are definitely different though. Much more openings for the turbochargers.