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dodint
April 26th, 2017, 06:24 AM
I called Continental and selling tires voids their warranty. She specifically said "buying a used car voids the warranty" which makes me chuckle. It's a shame because there is a TON of tread depth, but if it can't hold air while sitting in the driveway then it can't go to the track.

dodint
April 28th, 2017, 06:59 AM
Teflon tape on the threads also works well.

This worked, thanks. I had to really lay it on thick but once it everything was settled the shifter never rotated again.

A couple of candids from that track day:

http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/hpde1-1.jpg

http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/hpde1-2.jpg

That's my instructors Porsche. He recently stuffed it into a pole and is just getting it back and sorted out. He was testing a new fuel cell for starvation issues during the instructor run times. The Mustang doesn't feel like a big car at all but next to that Porsche it looks monstrous.

Black and gold car in the background is a nicely done up TVR, allegedly $120k car.
In the top pic you can see a MINI in Group 2 cresting the hill in the background; in the foreground was one(!) of the Panoz.
The Viper was an instructors car.

I love the impromptu car show feel of these things. Now that I kind of know what I'm doing I'll walk around and get more pics of the cooler stuff next time.

Kchrpm
April 28th, 2017, 07:03 AM
I love the impromptu car show feel of these things.
That's one of the things that excites me when thinking about moving near a track, being able to just go to an HPDE to car spot and watch cool machinery on track, whether I run or not.

dodint
April 28th, 2017, 07:07 AM
Even if you're not driving that particular weekend, try to go to a club event that is co-booked with the VDCA. You'll see decades worth of awesome cars stretching their legs on track.

Kchrpm
April 28th, 2017, 07:13 AM
That's what I mean. The problem again becomes that the closest event is 3.5 hours to Mid-Ohio.

dodint
April 28th, 2017, 07:28 AM
Look, there are about eleventy-billion reasons to move away from Cincy, just go. ;)

Raleigh is nicely situated between VIR and Road Atlanta, and Roebling isn't much farther.

Kchrpm
April 28th, 2017, 09:43 AM
Bowling Green, Austin, or Detroit suburb (http://www.waterfordhills.com/index.shtml). Austin is a stretch, too, but the events at the track would hopefully make up for the traffic. If I was confident I could get a good position in those places, I'd look seriously.

Yw-slayer
April 28th, 2017, 10:48 PM
Bowling Green

IDK man, I heard it wasn't safe as there was a massacre there.

Kchrpm
April 29th, 2017, 06:36 AM
I'm more worried about the ground opening up and swallowing my car. It already has a taste for them!

Yw-slayer
April 29th, 2017, 03:31 PM
Oh yeah, that too.

dodint
May 1st, 2017, 08:34 AM
I called Continental and selling tires voids their warranty. She specifically said "buying a used car voids the warranty" which makes me chuckle. It's a shame because there is a TON of tread depth, but if it can't hold air while sitting in the driveway then it can't go to the track.

Turns out the tire had a nail in the shoulder AND the set is 9 years old, so I had them sent to the recycler and put the BFG 245/40R-17s on there:

http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/shorty.jpg

They're a full inch smaller in diameter, and narrower. Really makes that wheel gap even more pronounced since the 275/40R-17s kind of helped with that.
These tires provide a lot more road feedback, even on the E36 they were loud and didn't absorb much of the road.

I think I'm going to go with 245/45R-17s when I purchase the next set brand new. It's the same OAD as the 275s without being quite so fat. I hope that will work out as a nice compromise.

Given that they're smaller in a couple of different ways I suspect my next HPDE (May 8th) will require a bit more care in handling. This HPDE is on the larger North Track as well which will be fun and challenging.

I also did a full flush on the brake fluid. The outgoing fluid smelled terribly bad and burnt and there was a fair amount of sediment in there, I put the best high temp DOT-4 stuff I could find locally into it so hopefully that will help that third session fade.

Going to change the differential fluid this week and add the Ford friction modifier. I suspect the 'clunking' from my diff is the result of the prior owner either not including the FM, or putting synthetic fluid in the diff which it's not supposed to have. I reckon it's probably already on its way out but I'd like to get through the summer on it if possible.

The guy that runs the tire shop is pretty cool. They're a Pittsburgh Vintage GP sponsor, offered me some parking passes for the event. I love having a cool shop within walking distance for basic stuff like that.

thesameguy
May 1st, 2017, 09:08 AM
I think I'm going to go with 245/45R-17s when I purchase the next set brand new. It's the same OAD as the 275s without being quite so fat. I hope that will work out as a nice compromise.

Eh?

245:

Diameter 25.7
Width 9.6
Sidewall 4.3
Circum. 80.6
Revs/Mile 809

275:

Diameter 26.7
Width 10.8
Sidewall 4.9
Circum. 84
Revs/Mile 777

245 is a much smaller tire! 3.7% to be precise.

dodint
May 1st, 2017, 09:11 AM
Right, that's what is on there now. I'm running them because they're cheap and I need them out of my garage.

You missed the ratio change. The OAD is the same for 275/40R-17 as it is for 245/45R-17. I hope to keep this width and raise the sidewall in the future.

Kchrpm
May 1st, 2017, 09:12 AM
I'm getting an 810 revs/mile on 275/40R17s (using https://tiresize.com/calculator/ )

dodint
May 1st, 2017, 09:15 AM
Yes. The 245/45R-17 are 809 revs a mile. I use the same site. ;)

Kchrpm
May 1st, 2017, 09:29 AM
Yeah, so tsg sucks and is dumb, but we are awesome and smart! EASTERN STANDARD TIME MOTHAFUCKA.

dodint
May 1st, 2017, 09:31 AM
I made the same exact mistake, for what it's worth. I texted my Dad that I'm sizing the width down and he immediately replied "Your tire diameter is a lot smaller, may change your shift points" and I played it off like I already noticed. ;)

thesameguy
May 1st, 2017, 09:50 AM
Ah, yeah, did not see the sidewall change.

Still, if the OD doesn't change the fender gap doesn't change. A 25.7" tall tire is a 25.7" tall tire. Doesn't seem like that's enough rubber to me - it feels nice on the Fiero but it's 600lbs lighter. Losing an inch of rubber per tire seems... significant.

dodint
May 1st, 2017, 09:55 AM
Yeah, the 245/40's are only on the car because they were in the inventory. Now I can sell my OZ wheels without the rubber and I can get my value out of those tires. Once they burn up I'll buy into the 245/45s. Maybe a 255/45 (+1.2% diameter) if I'm really craving the meat.

I don't see the 245/40's as a safety concern if that's what you're implying. They are a comfort concern. :D

thesameguy
May 1st, 2017, 10:16 AM
No, definitely not a safety concern - that's the stock size and I'm sure they're fine. Only that you have the wheel wells to accommodate wider tires, and certainly the horsepower and weight to justify them. Since you're not looking to DD the SVT, why not go for 265-285s? More surface will help the tires last longer - on a tracked Mustang, I'd fully expect to overwhelm the stock 245s and net abnormally short life.

http://www.fiascofarm.com/MINI/mol-gingerman-9-08-tire.jpg

:sadbanana:

dodint
May 1st, 2017, 10:27 AM
Yeah, I think I'm going to skate around a lot more on the 245s as well. Will be interesting. The 275s felt like they were doing all the work for me. I would be WOT mid turn and it was handling like it was on rails, just a long and steady *screeeeeeee* from the tires. In talking a bit more with Carlo and Russ the 255/45 is probably what I'll get when I burn off these 245/40s. :)

Phil_SS
May 1st, 2017, 11:40 AM
1. Buy a cheap set of wheels to drive on the road.
2. Mount current tires to them.
3. Then buy a set of Kumho ESCTA V710s in 275/40R17
4. Mount them to your current wheels.
5. Buy this kind of jack (http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=19365126&KPID=15201326&cid=CAPLA:G:Shopping_-_Craftsman_-_DT&pla=pla_15201326&k_clickid=6013708c-9035-47f4-a659-7303400ffc8d)
6. Fold down rear seat.
7. Place jack and 4 tires into back of car.
8. Drive to track and use jack to exchange tires.
9. First stint will look like this :D
10. Second stint will look like this :D :D
11. Third stint will look like this :D :D :D
12. Have fun changing tires with this. 8====D

dodint
May 1st, 2017, 11:44 AM
Hah. I was looking at the Hoosier R7s earlier and drooling a little, looks like the same kind of thing. :D

novicius
May 1st, 2017, 11:55 AM
:lol: :up: #billdong

thesameguy
May 1st, 2017, 11:57 AM
1. Buy a cheap set of wheels to drive on the road.
2. Mount current tires to them.
3. Then buy a set of Kumho ESCTA V710s in 275/40R17
4. Mount them to your current wheels.
5. Buy this kind of jack (http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=19365126&KPID=15201326&cid=CAPLA:G:Shopping_-_Craftsman_-_DT&pla=pla_15201326&k_clickid=6013708c-9035-47f4-a659-7303400ffc8d)
6. Fold down rear seat.
7. Place jack and 4 tires into back of car.
8. Drive to track and use jack to exchange tires.
9. First stint will look like this :D
10. Second stint will look like this :D :D
11. Third stint will look like this :D :D :D
12. Have fun changing tires with this. 8====D

Like. :up:

dodint
May 7th, 2017, 04:58 PM
Going to change the differential fluid this week and add the Ford friction modifier. I suspect the 'clunking' from my diff is the result of the prior owner either not including the FM, or putting synthetic fluid in the diff which it's not supposed to have. I reckon it's probably already on its way out but I'd like to get through the summer on it if possible.


I think the PO just forgot the friction modifier. I put new fluid in and added the FM and now the sound is completely gone. Wish I hadn't accepted that clunking as 'normal' right away and done something about it sooner. Oh well, it's as good as I'm going to get it now so lets see how it works out.

Doing another HPDE tomorrow. Because of the deluge of rain that we have received over the last week they were not able to safely complete the paving of the North Track so I'll be running the same course as last time. There are worse things in life.
I'm curious to see how the smaller size tire will affect things. I also purchased CG lap belt locks to try and make it more tolerable for the instructor and keep myself planted a little better. If that doesn't work I'm not sure what I'm going to do because I'm not interested in a harness bar.

With the current tires my speedometer is indicating 80 while GPS has me at 74. Just a data point.

Godson
May 7th, 2017, 08:18 PM
CG locks work ok. They do fall apart over time though. I think mine made it like a year and a half 20+ events with co-drivers, and some other things.

GB
May 8th, 2017, 07:41 AM
I was too cheap tp buy a CG Lock. I bought a torso strap. It's OK, not perfect. Cheaper than a race seat and harness, although that's in the plans.

https://www.amazon.com/G-Force-4290RD-Red-Torso-Harness/dp/B0059J984Q?th=1

EDIT - You have a Track Day on a Monday??

dodint
May 8th, 2017, 10:20 AM
Yeah, took a personal day. Beats the piss out of going to work.

CG Lock worked well. Kind of bummed I spent the $60 for one for my instructor and then ended up getting promoted to Group 2 Solo after my first run today. :lol: Oh well, it will find use.

Brake issues were fixed with the fluid change. No more soft pedal, was nice and firm right up front.

The lip of the drivers front tire got scorched bit time, the three others look fine:

http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/lippy.jpg

Super happy with the day, proud of the car from running near redline all day and then driving home no questions asked.

Only issue I had is that the fuel starvation issue I mentioned before showed up on track today with about 10 minutes left in the last session. I ran through it for about two laps but it obviously wasn't getting better so I pulled off so as not to be a safety hazard. Both turns onto the straights are up hill right handers and when I would level out for the straight the motor would stumble down. Didn't want someone to rear end me. I'm either going to have to figure something out for that, or just hit the $4.59/gallon fuel pump between sessions.

Really proud of myself for promoting to Group 2 Solo on my second outing.

thesameguy
May 8th, 2017, 10:26 AM
Bring a gas can?

dodint
May 8th, 2017, 10:29 AM
They have 93/100/110 at the course. I normally fill up and then drive the 30 miles or so to the track. Maybe filling up in town at the track will be enough to get those few minutes in. We'll see. The starvation starts to happen with 1/4 left in the tank.

novicius
May 8th, 2017, 10:32 AM
Great work! :up: :up:

Tire looks a bit well-done -- any drop-off in traction?

Godson
May 8th, 2017, 10:47 AM
I'd recommend a trailer hitch and a small trailer to carry gas, tires, and some spare tools.

dodint
May 8th, 2017, 04:19 PM
Wonder how many gallons of gas I can buy from the track pump using the funds saved from not buying a trailer for a Mustang to pull.

thesameguy
May 8th, 2017, 05:46 PM
Best guess is about 60 to 80.

dodint
May 8th, 2017, 06:01 PM
Don't forget it needs to be titled, PennDOT needs their share. ;)

This car is my track toy. If I can no longer run what I've brung, in this case, time to sell. I'm not doing the tow vehicle thing until I have a caged car.

GB
May 8th, 2017, 09:39 PM
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a7/BacDoc/111_trailer_side_lg_zps38b7808c.jpeg

thesameguy
May 8th, 2017, 10:20 PM
Don't forget it needs to be titled, PennDOT needs their share. ;)

This car is my track toy. If I can no longer run what I've brung, in this case, time to sell. I'm not doing the tow vehicle thing until I have a caged car.

I don't know PENN DOT rules, but in moSt states registering a trailer is only a few bucks a year, so that's included in my $240 HF trailer plus $140 receiver plus one year's registration number netting 80 gallons of $5/gallon gas. Numbers are clearly rounded, but reasonably close.

dodint
May 9th, 2017, 05:03 AM
Scope Creep. The car already is what I want it to be, tweaks from here on out. Something like that would create a burden and kill the hobby for me.

thesameguy
May 9th, 2017, 09:31 AM
Of course. It's your hobby, I was just answering the question. :up:

dodint
May 9th, 2017, 09:55 AM
A trailer that size is $6/yr in PA. So add in another 1.5g of fuel. ;)

thesameguy
May 9th, 2017, 10:16 AM
I don't know PENN DOT rules, but in moSt states registering a trailer is only a few bucks a year, so that's included in my $240 HF trailer plus $140 receiver plus one year's registrationnumber netting 80 gallons of $5/gallon gas. Numbers are clearly rounded, but reasonably close.

$240+$140+20 = 400 /$5 gallon = 80 gallons

If the reg is only $6/yr it's

$240+$140+$6 = $486 / $5 gallon = 77.2 gallons

;)

GB
May 9th, 2017, 08:59 PM
The car already is what I want it to be, tweaks from here on out. Something like that would create a burden and kill the hobby for me.

I can see that. Like my somewhat feeble attempt to build an actual race car. Spare wheels, tires, motors, transmissions, trailers, tow vehicle... too much. Find the balance.

For ME, I could handle an itty-bitty tiny wittle twailer to haul track tires, if it came to it. But I'd rather not.

dodint
May 10th, 2017, 04:53 AM
For me it would demonstrate an incompatibility of efforts. Why would I take the back seat out to save 45lbs and then bolt an iron hitch to the back of the car? The part of the car that least needs extra weight for a car that already oversteers? It's just too jarring for my fragile psyche.

I can already carry a toolkit and 4 extra tires without a trailer if I ever do want to go the slicks route.

dodint
May 10th, 2017, 04:33 PM
Some videos of the May track day. I mentioned to Carlo earlier that I make the videos mostly for me, I study them to rehear what my instructor was trying to tell me and to generally see what I did well and where I can improve. My Dad also really gets a kick out of them, he watches them at work with his buddies at the hose clamp factory. He got to come to this one with me and Ash was there too so it was a really great day, if a little cold.

This is a short (~5min) video of most of my second session. I sped it up 4x so you could get an idea for the flow of the traffic and the track. It's put back to 1x for my fastest lap. I also slowed it down to show the interesting cars that passed me. The '16 Porsche Cayman GT4 got by twice, and the other was the white '13 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0b80N8pF00

This is the full video that I'll go through later. I have some specific questions about my setup and technique if any of the experienced folks want to take a stab at it. I'll post later when I get a chance to figure out what I'm trying to say. The biggest thing is that the car feels like it's oversteering from the drivers front in a very specific condition but I'll try to explain it better later.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e21yP1h1lhM

dodint
May 10th, 2017, 05:15 PM
Man, this makes me feel good:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip1_oOPDDzM

This '11 Porsche 911GTS has 19 full mph on me on the longest straight, but his lap is only 2 seconds faster than mine. Same course same day, he was in a more advanced run group.

dodint
May 23rd, 2017, 03:48 AM
I mentioned it in chat off and on for a while but the E60 has had a terrible stumbling. I thought it was the twin turbos as the car would switch into low power mode if you got on the throttle too much; this has happened in the past if I've done some prolonged mountain climbing or on unusually hot and long trips. But lately anytime I'd get close to 3k rpm the car would stumble. I planned to buy $2500 worth of turbo parts and tackle the two-weekend job on my own.
Long story short it turned out to be the spark plugs and it was fixed for $35. :lol:

The spark plug change interval for the N54 twin turbo motor is 45k miles, not the usual 100k for similar NA applications (car is at 119k) so I was basically running them at 2.5x life as I'm not sure they've ever been changed. Whoops.

I took it out and beat on it like it owed me money and now I can spin up to the 7k redline no problem. Wish I had done this years ago, so much planning and worry for nothing.

novicius
May 23rd, 2017, 04:20 AM
$35?? Now that is the feel-good story of the year! :up: :up:

Phil_SS
May 23rd, 2017, 05:26 AM
Agreed. I love it when a plan comes together.

dodint
May 23rd, 2017, 10:29 AM
So after enjoying the newly refreshed E60 for one day there is a 99% chance I'm trading it on this tomorrow: http://www.pandwbmw.com/used/BMW/2008-BMW-6+Series-e6239a790a0e0a6b1c382ff890da2534.htm

https://pictures.dealer.com/p/pwbmw/1660/e06c38882b9452fcf9b1c31f3a4242dbx.jpg

It has the most complete CarFax I've ever seen, looks like it spent it's entire life being serviced by two BMW dealers. The drivers seat has a scuff and the driver rear wheel arch also has a white scuff that you can kind of see in the pictures. And other than the coolant hose dislodging at 90mph on Bigelow Blvd during the test drive everything looks great.

I know the E63 was a very unloved car by car journo's and the public but it reminds me a lot of my E24 M6 in terms of style 'feel' and it ticks a lot of my boxes. It was even ordered without the faux wood, a car after my heart. It's part of what I referred to as the last great generation before BMW went tits up and lost their identity.

Financing is already done and everything is ready to go, just need to get the new coolant hose in the car and do a last shakedown cruise.

Yw-slayer
May 24th, 2017, 06:10 PM
Wow. I approve. :up:

Cam
May 25th, 2017, 06:23 AM
:eek: Nice.

dodint
May 25th, 2017, 07:56 AM
Thanks.

They got the new hose swapped in and had it detailed on Wednesday but not in time for me to get over there and sign off. Ash has class all day and her name is on the E60 title so we're shooting for doing this tomorrow after work.

dodint
May 31st, 2017, 08:59 AM
Well, the E60 535xi is gone. Was a great car for our needs but the needs changed and if I'm paying for something I want it to be a car I have some passion about.

http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/650i-night.jpg
E63 650i w/sport package

Sorry for the poor pic. I was helping my Dad move last night and this was at his house. It was well after dark but the Galaxy S7 picked up a ton of ambient light but it's also a touch grainy.

360hp out of this V8 is a pretty nice sweet spot. With all the nannies on it will still slightly spin the tires from a dead stop. Turn them all off and you get some nice spin and can do donuts pretty easily; not as readily as the Challenger SRT8 I test drove by any stretch but for a BMW it feels pretty out there. The exhaust note is like a really subdued version of the SLS AMG. Not nearly as shouty but a similar tone. Nothing like the Mustang burble.

It is a GT car though and on the highway it's fantastic. Even with the 19" wheels it's very comfortable. Had the cruise set to 69 on I-70 and was utterly bored, felt like going 30mph. Cockpit is really comfortable and my biggest worry, moving around in bumper to bumper traffic, is easier than I would've though. It's only 1" shorter than the E60 we traded in but it feels a lot smaller for some reason.

The car checks off a lot of boxes and I'm happy that I bought it. I'm going to start working on a snow tire solution. I could go spend $1200 on TireRack but in checking the local classifieds there are actually a bunch of BMW wheels with snow tires mounted on them already from people that must've just traded in their cars. Need to bone up on the sizing and everything but should be able to find something, seems to be a fair bit of 7 series sets out there. The car can accept 18" wheels with those brakes and that's what I hope to find for winter driving.

I plan to take it to one or two Track Night in America events eventually but I'm not at all interested in modifying the car or tracking it extensively. It does feel like it would be a handful with all the systems turned off and sport mode engaged and I want to see what it's like to open it up.

Ash wants me to name it. So far I'm calling it Phil (as in Kessel). Fat and powerful.

novicius
May 31st, 2017, 09:42 AM
<3 :up:

Cam
May 31st, 2017, 09:49 AM
That makes me tingle in my loins.

dodint
May 31st, 2017, 11:39 AM
On other fronts I've ordered the MM Full Length Subframe Connectors for the Mustang, those won't be here in time for TNIA next week but should get welded on next weekend.

I located the original MINI lug bolts so this weekend I should be able to do the brakes next week, it's getting slotted cryo treated rotors all around, new pads, and a brake fluid flush. Then I'll finally get it inspected six months after titling it. (It needed tires back then but I never took it for re-inspection after putting the Falkens on). ;)

The MINI is Ash's car now but I still intend to auto-x it from time to time and drive it whenever it's appropriate. She has her own key for the 650i, she can drive it whenever she wants.

Yw-slayer
May 31st, 2017, 06:20 PM
Bruh, that is a sweet-ass ride. :up: A road trip in that would be legend.

dodint
May 31st, 2017, 06:51 PM
Thanks mate, I like it.

Phil_SS
May 31st, 2017, 07:07 PM
Hoss. :up:

speedpimp
June 3rd, 2017, 10:36 AM
Sweet Baby Jeebus, that is pretty.

dodint
June 8th, 2017, 04:31 PM
I get these are like fantasy football teams, they're pretty boring unless they're yours. But, I'll post it anyway.

I was able to drive the full PittRace circuit for the first time last night. Really was a fantastic time. Over the course of the evening I went from being sincerely terrified to fully committing to the blind turns and flat out kinks. I won't say that I got all the way to the edge but there were certainly times that I could've blown through a turn by missing my brake point entirely. These videos never really convey the speed and elevation changes as they feel on the track but this was the first time I've shot a track video where it actually 'feels' fast to me. I got out of the car after session 3 shaking from adrenaline and sweaty despite the chill in the air (see what Ash is wearing?, lol).

The video is about six minutes long. If anything fast forward to about 4:40 and watch me take the last kink before the hairpin. The telemetry is about a half a second off, I'm foot to the floor WOT through the kink and decelerate from 111mph down to 37 to make the turn. I even nailed the 4-3 downshift while making the turn, I was so happy I did the smallest of fist pumps before taking off up the hill. Just a really exceptional end to a really fulfilling night.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4edKi7FuCAw

All this in a Mustang, a car known more for drag racing than corner carving.

This is the full night. I don't expect anyone watches them, but it's there. You don't really see the WRX backing into the armco or the Miata taking out the bollards, it happened well before I got there. The Miata did it on the outlap of the last session which is kind of weird.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTWQICHV26A

The subframe connectors are in and will be welded up next week. The car really does handle well as is. I bought it thinking it would oversteer a ton but it doesn't. It is not like the E36 where I can just toss it any which way. But if you brake in a straight line and maintain some throttle through the turn you can walk it around very nicely and consistently. I do have a weird sensation on really hard turns, like the front tires are moving around on the treads. It could be in my head but I don't think it's the suspension. It's kind of like body roll but distinctly different, hard to explain, like you're sliding laterally while rolling and not just rolling on an axis. I'm still running those tiny 245 BFGs, looking forward to getting onto some fatter rubber. Maybe they won't scream so much. ;) I'm going to swap the rears to the front before the next track day. I figure I'll get 2-3 more events and then I'll have to buy fresh rubber. Probably before my event with Carlo up in Minneapolis.

I really want to take the 650 up to PittRace and see how it compares. My guess is it would be about 2-4 seconds a lap faster based on the higher top end and my ability to focus on turn in without having to shift.

Russ, even in Sport mode the 6 will downshift when you approach a stop when using the paddles. Not sure what that would mean for the track, though on this course you don't get under 30mph.

Phil_SS
June 8th, 2017, 05:37 PM
Good stuff Nate. Thanks for sharing. Loved the drive home at the end. :)

And I can't wait til you get a set of DOT-Rs. :twisted:

And I'll have to keep tabs of your next event. I'd love to drive out and bring Vivien and let her check it out.

Random
June 8th, 2017, 08:54 PM
Russ, even in Sport mode the 6 will downshift when you approach a stop when using the paddles. Not sure what that would mean for the track, though on this course you don't get under 30mph.

Hmm. Tim's Audi that I drove would do that too, but seemed reasonably intelligent at speed.

novicius
June 9th, 2017, 04:25 AM
I get these are like fantasy football teams, they're pretty boring unless they're yours. But, I'll post it anyway.
No way man, I think it's very cool when anyone from the GTX does something tangibly & competitively automotive. :up: :up:



The video is about six minutes long. If anything fast forward to about 4:40 and watch me take the last kink before the hairpin. The telemetry is about a half a second off, I'm foot to the floor WOT through the kink and decelerate from 111mph down to 37 to make the turn. I even nailed the 4-3 downshift while making the turn, I was so happy I did the smallest of fist pumps before taking off up the hill. Just a really exceptional end to a really fulfilling night.
Looking forward to watching these vids later today!

dodint
June 9th, 2017, 05:18 AM
Good stuff Nate. Thanks for sharing. Loved the drive home at the end. :)

And I can't wait til you get a set of DOT-Rs. :twisted:

And I'll have to keep tabs of your next event. I'd love to drive out and bring Vivien and let her check it out.

Hah. DOT-Rs feel like they'd be cheating. ;) I'm not sure what I really want to do to advance right now, honestly I just want to get smoother with my downshifting more than anything. I let out a nice "fuck!" early in the first session when I couldn't match revs going 4 to 3 the first time I tried. ;)

I would highly suggest you and Vivien come up for a TNIA event. They're in the evening during the week, typically. The cool thing about them is that they're basically SCCA outreach programs. If you come to spectate you and her (if she can pass for 12) can get wristbands to do parade laps in the middle of the evening, so you'd be able to show her the entire track, no cost to get into the venue or to do the laps. I took Ash around after my second session and she was really surprised at how much elevation change there is.

I'm *hoping* to get up there on June 27th, have to see how much this welding job is going to run me. If not there is July 26th, August 10th, and September 13th.
There are also some PittRace PDEs through the summer but they're during the week and start at 8am, not sure if I can get off work to run more than one, if that.
I'll let you know, would love to have you up there. :up:

Kchrpm
June 9th, 2017, 05:46 AM
Vivien is coming? Hmmm, maybe I should try to make it out...

Phil_SS
June 9th, 2017, 06:06 AM
I'm the captain now!

dodint
June 14th, 2017, 09:45 AM
Dropped the Mustang off at the speed shop in Wampum. Owner is a former driver of race cars, most notably Trans Am GT1 (The Corvette was in the shop, neat!) but when I googled him I came back with all kinds of other weirdness too. Seems like a really cool guy, gave Ash and I a tour of his shop. When I got there on Saturday him and his mechanic were testing their Project Cars VR setup on a new PC they bought. :lol:

It's getting the subframe connectors welded in. Money is getting tight so I'm waiting to hear how much that will cost before deciding whether to go back up on June 27th.
AC is no longer blowing cool and my 12v power outlets are dead. Boo. If a recharge doesn't work there is basically no way I'm taking that car to Minn. in August, Carlo. Sorry. You'll have to live with the 6 instead.

Had a long discussion with him (Bret Moyer) about where to go with the Mustang suspension. He has a lift/scale that will measure the corner weight and looks forward to helping me setup the car next year. I was talking with him about what I want from this car, what I'm trying to achieve now, and what my future might look like. Instead of advising me to dump a ton of money on parts and his labor he insisted that I leave the car alone the rest of this year and focus on my driving skill. Cool dude. He thinks I should focus on my skills until I've properly outgrown the car and then move into something inherently quicker instead of trying to squeeze speed out of this platform.
Right now I'm considering doing adjustable coil overs this winter and a cold air intake. Get Bret to setup the suspension next spring, run it that way all summer, and then reassess my level of competency and see how close I am to getting to the limit of what this car can do for me.
The short of it is I think that my initial 4-5 year timeline for the Cobra is being shortened to 2-3 years. I don't have any idea what I would want to get into next though, and I'm in no hurry. C5 Corvette keeps popping into my head but I hope I can find something else before it comes time to buy. My initial goal with the Mustang was to ride it out until I was ready to buy a caged E36/E46 and tow vehicle, but I'm almost certain there is going to have to be an intermediary road going car in between the Mustang and the fully prepped car.

Regardless, I'm having lots of fun and learning a ton. Thanks to everyone for contributing to my enjoyment of the hobby with your insightful tips and critiques.

novicius
June 14th, 2017, 10:23 AM
C5 sounds like it would be a good fit for you: rumpity-rump sounds and lightyears better chassis & suspension. :up:

As always, looking forward to what you do.



AC is no longer blowing cool and my 12v power outlets are dead. Boo.
https://media.giphy.com/media/roHXWGn2z1Z9S/giphy.gif

:lol:

dodint
June 14th, 2017, 10:25 AM
:lol:

I'm pretty sure the 12v outlets died when I took the CD Player out. I probably pinched something, just haven't had a chance to run it down yet.

CudaMan
June 15th, 2017, 10:28 AM
From the last lap of the first video (mini fist bump lap) it does look like the Cobra is front grip limited. Hard to know why exactly from here but I'd imagine insufficient front camber is a likely cause. I don't know Mustang suspension well but on most cars adding negative camber is usually not too involved/expensive.

Good stuff. :up:

The Mustang owners here are doing the most track/autox stuff. Is the FR-S/BR-Z contingent going to stand for this? :D

dodint
June 15th, 2017, 10:39 AM
Thanks. The setup is not tuned at all (by me) and the 245s weren't doing me any favors. The UCA/LCAs are adjustable but I do not think the front is, the only improvement up there is that it has '04 Cobra control arms to tighten up the turning radius.

I talked specifically with Moyer about introducing more camber where needed and tried to describe that 'rolling' feeling to him, but I don't think we're going to explore it much this year. I could ask him to look at the adjustable rear UCA/LCA while he is still doing that welding work, but I don't know it's correct to just adjust the rear of a car like that or not with the front being static. That and improving rear grip via stance would probably just cause the problems up front (if any) to be more pronounced. Hmmm.

CudaMan
June 15th, 2017, 11:01 AM
Yeah, ideally to balance the car you want to add grip to the front rather than take away grip from the rear. Adding rear grip at this point won't do anything for you really, if my brief analysis from the video is correct in that the rear end is pretty well planted already. Does this gen Cobra have IRS? I thought Phil's car was the first Cobra with IRS.

I imagine you've looked at this already but another possibility is insufficient front tire pressure causing excessive rollover onto the sidewalls, reducing grip. Generally on cars with limited/no front camber, shoulder wear is pretty pronounced and it takes a pressure bump to help alleviate that. Once suficient camber is dialed in, the pressure can go back down somewhat.

dodint
June 15th, 2017, 11:35 AM
IRS came the following year, in 1999. That Cobra was the first Mustang IRS from Ford. I don't know what year the Saleen is or the details on it other than Phil upgraded the brakes. I've talked about it with Carlo and although he'd love to see the build write-up, I feel that's a bridge too far with this car.

As for the shoulder wear, I posted this a few weeks back after my second event:

http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/lippy.jpg
(Drivers front, the only tire with unusual shoulder wear)

So, yeah, nailed it. ;) Russ mentioned I should step up the pressures as well. This time out I went up to 35psi but maybe I should go 40 like he wanted. Next event I'm going to rotate the rears to the front so I'll have a fresh shoulder to gauge results with.

Phil_SS
June 15th, 2017, 11:48 AM
My Saleen had the stock suspension from Saleen. Which was based off the live axle but it didn't have that strange ass double shock mumbo jumbo of Carlo's car.

"As for the legendary Saleen suspension, the front of the S281 receives Racecraft struts, variable- rate springs and lower control arms, while the rear holds on to the pavement with a set of lower trailing arms, a stabilizer bar, and Racecraft shocks."

The only thing I changed about it was the stock Slaeen shocks went bad after a couple years. So I called up Saleen and they said they had heard of the issue and replaced them for free with a set of Bilsteins. Bilstein was what they were now using on that model. And I replaced the rear shocks with a set of Tokico adjustables.

novicius
June 16th, 2017, 08:02 AM
My Saleen had the stock suspension from Saleen. Which was based off the live axle but it didn't have that strange ass double shock mumbo jumbo of Carlo's car.

"As for the legendary Saleen suspension, the front of the S281 receives Racecraft struts, variable- rate springs and lower control arms, while the rear holds on to the pavement with a set of lower trailing arms, a stabilizer bar, and Racecraft shocks."
I put new quad-shocks on the rear of the Bananastang for the same reason that Ford did: cheaper than rear tubular LCA's & beefy urethane bushings for trying to keep the rear axle somewhat in place. #betterthannothing

But the Saleen's rear suspension was also using the stock dual upper control arms so there was binding occurring regardless. Would've needed to either go with a beefy reinfored 3-link + a Panhard bar (Torque Arm-style; also what the S197 rear suspensions are) or Watts link or 5-link setup like Steeda's to more accurately secure the stick axle's travel. #shrug

dodint
June 25th, 2017, 05:40 PM


I need to sit down and map out a plan, that's just how I work. Roughly right now it looks like...

subframe connector


Ordered the Maximum Motorsport full length subframe connectors and had them sent to that race shop I mentioned before. While installing them the fabricators found some significant damage to the factory frame rails. The rails I went with are here: http://www.maximummotorsports.com/MM-Full-Length-Subframe-Connectors-1979-04-powdercoated-P585.aspx

http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/s-hammer.jpg

http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/s-hammer2.jpg

Looks like someone crushed them down using them as in improper jack point. It wasn't me, I've been using the LCAs to get the wheels on and off. He basically had to rebuild them before putting the MM rails in:

http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/IMG_1727.jpg

Here is how the transmission flange mount integrates into the rails for the Cobra, the procedure is different than with a non-Cobra SN95. The directions from MM are very good and available online in their tech section:

http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/transmout.jpg

He took it upon himself to paint the welds, which is a nice touch. I was going to do it myself in the garage with a rattle can job, but this is probably more thorough. The rails themselves are powdercoated but it has to be stripped off of the mating surfaces to weld effectively. You can see that he has a proper drive-on lift which is required for welding subframe connectors, unless you want to use something stacked under the wheels to support the weight of the car.


http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/finished1.jpg

http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/finished2.jpg

If any of the pics are rotated, sorry. When I refresh they show up either way, it's weird.

The car 'feels' more solid when doing some interstate on ramp 'testing' but I haven't had it back on track yet. They add 27lbs to the weight of the car but I think the stiffness will more than make up for it. Rear seat delete will make up for it as well.
Unfortunately I will not be taking it to the track on Tuesday. He warned me of a busted passenger side axle seal and he was right, there was gear oil soaking the inside of the wheel. It must have happened during or after the last track day as it was fine when I tech'd the car. No big deal, the seal kits are cheap and I'll take care of it this weekend or next.

It looks like I'll be taking the 650i up there on Tuesday, that should be fun. That car kind of scares me so I'm looking forward to seeing how well I adapt to it.

Talking to Bret at the race shop again and he's urging me not to bother with coil overs and to just work on my skill, buy some r comp tires next year, and then upgrade to a more spirited platform after next season. We'll see, I'm far from outgrowing the car so I don't have to make a choice now. The itch in the back of my brain is saying C5 Vette, though (still). Tough to beat that bang for the buck, I've been lazily looking at ads for C5 FRCs.

novicius
June 26th, 2017, 05:14 AM
Sex. :cool: :up:

What was the total price tag on this? I'm probably in the same boat.

dodint
June 26th, 2017, 05:21 AM
$180 for the MM connectors and $667 labor to repair the factory rails and weld in the new ones. The labor was about $450 more than I planned on but I'd rather get the repair work done properly instead of having to deal with that stuff later. Had I known all of that was involved I would have just waited for the off season, but it's done now, so...woo.

novicius
June 26th, 2017, 06:44 AM
Well the end result looks fantastic so yeah, definitely enjoy it. :up: :up:

thesameguy
June 26th, 2017, 08:40 AM
That frame rail damage was crazy - someone must have used a really tiny (cheap) jack to get that result. People are terrible!

Random
June 26th, 2017, 08:50 AM
Probably got dropped onto a jack stand.

dodint
June 27th, 2017, 05:18 PM
So, I figured out *why* there are no BMW 650i track day videos on the internet. The best way I can quickly describe it is that it handles much like a powerboat.

I'll post some stuff later but it was the least fun I've had on track. There really isn't a bad day to be had on course, much like golf, sure. But I'll be okay if I never do that again.

I did run a 2:10.712 which is 5 seconds faster than the Mustang, speed trap has it at a full 5mph faster. Also got my first black flag (2 off). Thanks Bavaria.

Cam
June 27th, 2017, 05:23 PM
Handles bad, but 5 seconds faster? First world problems. :lol:

dodint
June 27th, 2017, 06:35 PM
It's like bedding a supermodel and finding out she just lays there.
It'll get the job done but you might not be wanting more anytime soon.

Godson
June 27th, 2017, 06:37 PM
It's like bedding a supermodel and finding out she just lays there.
It'll get the job done but you might not be wanting more anytime soon.

:lol:

Great visual

novicius
June 28th, 2017, 03:58 AM
So, I figured out *why* there are no BMW 650i track day videos on the internet. The best way I can quickly describe it is that it handles much like a powerboat.
Well that and 650 folks don't like coilovers on the street? :lol:

GB
June 28th, 2017, 06:58 AM
It's like bedding a supermodel and finding out she just lays there.
It'll get the job done but you might not be wanting more anytime soon.

*I'll* be the judge of that, thankyouverymuch.

dodint
June 29th, 2017, 11:28 AM
My assessment that it handles like a powerboat was borne from two behaviors. First, when you stand on the accelerator there is a noticeable 'lifting of the front end feeling' that reminds me of getting up on plane in a fast boat. Also, when you try to turn near the edge of traction the nannies go nuts and artificially 'wash out' the front end. It's a really peculiar feeling, when it's happening you hear the tire squeal all around and then all of a sudden the squealing increases from the front. The best way I can think to describe it is that you're in charge of the rear brakes and your buddy is in charge of the fronts, and you're trying to work together to get around the circuit as fast as possible. It took me at least a half hour of drive time for me really get in tune with that so I could run a respectable line.

I want to state that the car is quick. If you could take the nannies off (there are three stages: full on, DTC off but DSC enabled, and full off) and learn the car properly it would be a very fast machine. But with the nannies off it's very tail happy (donut machine), the slightest bit of slip angle and the back end really wants to come around. And with the nannies on the system will fully take over end up driving your corners for you. The gap in car behavior between the three settings is huge.
Because this was my first time in the Advanced run group I didn't have the opportunity to really work and learn with all the systems off, there was just no way I was going to stay on track. I had an off with the DTC off and DSC on, so there is no telling how it would've went with everything turned off. Maybe someday if I'm at a track with less elevation I'll take it back out, but in all honesty I'd be very happy never to track it again, drive by wire is a bummer.
Because of the glass roof there is not enough room for my helmet to fit exactly right. I didn't get a really good driving position until the third session, was really hanging onto the wheel very hard and tiring myself out. My best time came in S2, S3 I was just whipped and cruising.

The size actually wasn't so bad. The car was easy to see out of and is fairly nimble. Again, in the right hands it could be a quick ride. I don't have that skillset right now.

Sadly, I allowed my camera memory card to completely fill so I only have my first (very sad) session and then the grid and out lap for my second session. All of my quality laps are lost to history, save for the telemetry. It's a shame because the difference between my best lap of 2:10.712 was three seconds faster than my next fastest lap so it really must've been something.
This is the best view I've found so far for the camera. So good that I actually hit my head off of it when I had my off. ;)

Anyway, onto the footage. There was an SCCA event at the track all day before TNiA so there was a lot of cool stuff in the paddock. I've left my drive to and from the grid in full so you can see what was out there if you want. After we grid we do paced lap and then roll into hot laps. Very first hot lap starts at around 4:30 and I put two off at T1. I got on the throttle too hard coming out of the turn and took it way wide. I didn't want to just jerk it hard left back onto the course so I rode the curbing to the end and then edged it back onto the track. I feel like I did the right thing there and other than getting off in the first place, I'm not too upset by it. They black flagged me for it, which is fine, as per the event rules. What kind of bugged me is that they claimed I didn't see the black flags for 2-3 laps. Even watching the video I'm not seeing the flags until a few laps later when all the corners flag me. I know I was nervous about traffic and trying to find the car since I was sliding heavily on every single turn, but I really don't see that I was ignoring flags. Lesson learned for me, stewards are always right and it's best to just button up and promise to do better.
After that I start to find the car but really never get any good laps in the session. I almost didn't go back out, I was full Carlo-inconsolable there for a while. Looking at the footage I think I was being overly hard on myself but I was really upset at the end of the session, I clipped the video because I audibly sighed a few times.
When I gridded up for S2/S3 I went to the grid last and that helped me a lot. I was really intimidated by being in the Advanced group with a car I'd never driven before. I do think that I did a good job at staying out of people's way and conducted myself well, but I really felt like I was driving my mirrors all day.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byibh8JIDOQ

If I were to try and track this again I would need some skid pad time and some better tires. The generic as fuck General tires did me no favors at all. The guy that paddocked next to me in the Porsche said he could tell at any given moment what part of the course I was on just by hearing me.

Things that broke:
02 Sensor
Right License Plate Light
DVD Navigation drive (overheated)
Pride

Russ was kind enough to track this down for me; to give an idea of some of the stuff that was in my group, here is the video of a Z06 turning a 1:53, or 17 full seconds faster than me. Lulz:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX8-sHgPWvc

novicius
June 29th, 2017, 11:59 AM
After that I start to find the car but really never get any good laps in the session. I almost didn't go back out, I was full Carlo-inconsolable there for a while. Looking at the footage I think I was being overly hard on myself but I was really upset at the end of the session, I clipped the video because I audibly sighed a few times.

Things that broke:
02 Sensor
Right License Plate Light
DVD Navigation drive (overheated)
Pride
:lol:

Hey, you don't get to go full-Carlo until you spin the fucker. ;) #goodjob

dodint
June 29th, 2017, 12:05 PM
The camera is right at my face level and you can probably hear me sigh about 8 times before and after the session. :lol:

I was really upset and kind of wanted to just leave. Wish I had all the video because I pulled it together really nicely the next session.

Two other things:

The threshold braking was nice. Once I got the feel for it I was able to execute it really well for this car.
I wish I could turn off the paddles. If you see me reaching for the stick in the video it's because I knocked the paddle by accident and had to put the shifter back into D. :smh:

Oh, and man, that loud as fuck car on the grid is a prepped Camaro Z28 from the 70s. Much appreciation even if it isn't my thing. You can see it pull away at 22:20.

novicius
June 29th, 2017, 12:18 PM
Well it all looks smooth to me -- but in my personal railing experience I prefer to be at the lead of Group B vs at the tail-end of Group A (as it were).

Your hands are ginormous on that tiny wheel. :lol:

Practice, practice, practice. :) :up:

Random
June 29th, 2017, 01:19 PM
If I were to try and track this again I would need some skid pad time and some better tires. The generic as fuck General tires did me no favors at all. The guy that paddocked next to me in the Porsche said he could tell at any given moment what part of the course I was on just by hearing me.


Cuda and I did a track day together when he had his RX-7 that was similar. Could track him by sound through each of the corners. :D

http://m8.i.pbase.com/u45/bryanh/large/29208058.my7_turn4_1.jpg

dodint
June 29th, 2017, 01:34 PM
2004? They had cars back then? ;)

CudaMan
June 29th, 2017, 03:34 PM
:random: riding shotgun can confirm:

http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/29208055/large.jpg (http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/29208055/original)

That RX-7 didn't understeer much, though. Beautifully balanced through the turns. Like, so easy I was almost getting bored by the end of the day due to lack of challenge (keep in mind my previous track car was a 1st gen MR2...).

KillerB
June 29th, 2017, 05:27 PM
I still want another.

Godson
July 2nd, 2017, 10:59 AM
Maybe an rx8 instead of Corvette...

dodint
July 2nd, 2017, 11:09 AM
Yeah, no.

Godson
July 2nd, 2017, 05:39 PM
Yeah, no.

I should have prefaced that. For me.

dodint
July 2nd, 2017, 06:51 PM
Yeah, no.

dodint
July 25th, 2017, 10:34 AM
http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/sfc-jack.jpg

Sub-frame connectors are paying dividends in the practicality department. ;)

I have the rear axle disassembled and waiting for me at home. If I can get it back together tonight with fresh new seals in place I'll go back up to PittRace for a TNiA tomorrow and test the SFCs out. Looking forward to it.

novicius
July 25th, 2017, 11:07 AM
Hawt. :cool: :up:

GB
July 25th, 2017, 04:52 PM
Thought maybe you were prepping it for winter storage. July is almost over, after all. ;)

CudaMan
July 25th, 2017, 08:44 PM
https://ci.memecdn.com/5797794.jpg

novicius
July 26th, 2017, 04:22 AM
Ouch! I just noticed the divot punched into the door! :twitch:

When did that happen?

dodint
July 26th, 2017, 05:18 AM
It's been there since before I bought it. Hard to notice before because of the paint damage. It's real obvious from that angle, obviously.

Anyway, I never did get the work done. For some reason there is a weird shortage of conventional Lucus Oil 80w-90. I had to drive to 5 different stores to collect the two bottles I needed. Then when I got home I came to the immediate realization that the rod in my slide hammer is threaded smaller than the bearing puller attachments that I own. So, yeah, fuck me. It was already after 7pm and I had had enough of driving around in rush hour traffic collecting car parts, so I surrendered. Cleaned up the garage and sorted some of my extra tools like I've been wanting to for years. Going to try and source an internal/external adapter so I can still use my slide hammer with these tools. I really like my slide hammer and don't want to buy another one if I can source an adapter.

This weekend I'm going to swap out the four O2 sensors in the 6 series. The car is compensating well enough for the one that I fried at the last TNiA, but would probably run a lot better with new sensors. They're right at the end of life anyway so it's a good time to change. Going to do that Saturday morning. At least I already have the fucking tools for that job.

dodint
August 2nd, 2017, 08:28 AM
You don't need to powdercoat - there are lots of spray & brush on caliper paints. The Duplicolor kit I used on the XR4Ti lasted forever on ancient used (from the junkyard) Taurus calipers.

Was the Duplicolor kit you used brush on? I wonder how uniform the paint is when it's brushed on like that.

This kit? https://www.amazon.com/Dupli-Color-BCP400-Red-Brake-Caliper/dp/B000B6AF80/

The calipers on the 6 are looking pretty shotty. Thinking of taking a wire brush to the surface rust and repainting them. Right now they're like a flat aluminum color, thinking of adding some contrast to the car and going red. Would look very similar to this:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=279392&d=1306178463

dodint
August 2nd, 2017, 08:30 AM
In other, more productive news:


...I do believe I have the only actual track video of a 650i on a road course...

Things that broke:
02 Sensor
Right License Plate Light
DVD Navigation drive (overheated)


Got around this weekend to changing out all four O2 sensors myself. The car is at 90k which is about the end of life for them anyway. The post-cat were super easy to replace, the pre-cat ones were way up in there behind a structural underbody plate. Took about three hours total and that was with my Dad helping out. One really understated feature of this car is that it has a center jack points in the front and rear, so I can slide the jack under the front and put the jack stands on the side jack points. Saves a TON of setup time.
Replacing those really punched up the power and the exhaust note. By sourcing the parts myself and doing the labor I probably saved myself $800.

I upgraded my rear license plate lights to LED panels instead of incandescent 194 bulbs. Small upgrade but they're much brighter and even, draw less current, and will probably last longer than the car.

Nice weekend for the car. Now it's ready for the drive up to St. Paul and back later this month.

thesameguy
August 2nd, 2017, 10:18 AM
Was the Duplicolor kit you used brush on? I wonder how uniform the paint is when it's brushed on like that.

This kit? https://www.amazon.com/Dupli-Color-BCP400-Red-Brake-Caliper/dp/B000B6AF80/

Yep, that exact one.

I had no issues with brushing. I later used this kit on the SPG:

http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-s-urethane-caliper-paints.html

and applied it with a foam brush. It turned out great:

http://sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/misc/85spgfrontaxleswap.jpg

but after 5 years it started rusting through the paint. I cleaned it up last winter and reapplied. I'm not sure whether the rust-through issue was the paint or my application - either is on the table, I may not have applied it thick enough. This time I went pretty heavy, so we'll see what it looks like in 2021.

The Duplicolor kit was solid. Only problems it ever had was chipping from being banged up with wheels and stuff. It was never bad, easy to touch up. It exceeded expectations considering I applied it to junkyard Taurus calipers that were already 15 years old. Going on nice, new calipers should net a better result.

Edit: FWIW, I much prefer the brush to the spray. I find it easier to apply and more durable. I do like the color variety VHT et al offers, but it's not worth the trade.

dodint
August 2nd, 2017, 10:27 AM
Thanks. I've had it in my Amazon cart all day, just waiting to see what your take was before pulling the trigger. :up:

The '6 calipers are 9 years old. The rust is just on the outside surface that faces the exterior of the wheel. Rest of the caliper looked good. Was interested in the brush on solution so I could minimize the prep involved. The other way involved isolating everything with plastic sheeting as I don't want to disconnect the lines. This is just meant to be a touch up, nothing remarkable.

thesameguy
August 2nd, 2017, 12:24 PM
The Taurus calipers I painted were a disaster area.... I wire brushed and wire wheeled them, but there's only so much you can do after 15 years on bare metal... As long as there is no loose scale or rust I think you'll be satisfied with the results. It should be an easy enough task in the current warm weather.

dodint
August 3rd, 2017, 07:24 AM
I was at the dealer picking up the second key that they owed me from the purchase and my sales guy asked if I had any issues with the car. Told him the only weird glitch is that the Sat radio is hung and crashes the entire CCC (nav, entertainment, etc) when selected. Not a huge deal but generally a pain in the ass when trying to change modes as I switch between FM and Aux (podcats) often and sometimes land on Sirius. He offered to fix it for free which I think is really generous. While the car is in the shop I have a X1 28i with 550 miles on the odometer.

You'd think the X1 would be roomier, but the door openings are so small. They feel, and probably are, smaller than the MINI. I have to turn my knees sideways and slide into the car because the dash sticks out into the door opening, and even with the wheel up all the way it bangs into my knees. Feels like a transit van compared to my 6.

2505

Yw-slayer
August 3rd, 2017, 09:27 AM
LOL - crap.jpg

Godson
August 4th, 2017, 07:02 AM
Yeah. The x1 is not only hideous, but impractical for anyone over 6ft

dodint
August 4th, 2017, 07:06 AM
Took Ash in it last night. We had a prior gen X1 a few years ago for about a week, and it wasn't great but did the job. Wanted to see how she thought this compared. About 2 minutes into the drive she said "This just feels cheap."

She's a good wife. ;)

Godson
August 4th, 2017, 07:09 AM
Lol. I knew I liked her for a reason.

Yw-slayer
August 4th, 2017, 09:10 AM
Definitely a bad BMW, if not necessarily a bad car.

dodint
August 8th, 2017, 09:31 AM
P&W BMW in Pittsburgh did me a huge solid. When I bought the 650 I didn't actually test the SatRadio, just made sure it was there. Long story short they paid for a replacement tuner module out of their used sales slush fund. I didn't even ask or complain about it, just mentioned it in passing when I was picking up the 2nd key they owed me. They gave me a loaner car for the week and a $0 invoice for the labor and parts. If I stay in the BMW game I am absolutely looking to them first.

I follow consumer protection law which is endless stories of getting f'd by dealers so this was a very pleasant surprise.

dodint
August 8th, 2017, 09:46 AM
I didn't think my Cobra had ABS. I thought it was a factory delete. In all the miles I've driven from VA to PA and at PittRace, never once has the ABS pulsed my brake pedal.

After I put the rear axle back together and cleaned up the rear wheel sensors while wiping other stuff down (and having the battery out of the car for a few days) I now suddenly have an ABS light on the dash and *intermittent* ABS. It didn't work for the start of a test drive, then after visually inspecting some other stuff it worked on the way back. Then I hit a bump in the road and it stopped working again.

I don't like it. I'm thinking of just pulling the fuse on it. Even when it 'works' it just feels fucking weird, like the most belabored ABS system in the history of ever.

I just don't get how I had inoperable ABS w/no ABS light and now I have an ABS light and intermittent ABS. The light goes out when it's working.

novicius
August 8th, 2017, 10:22 AM
PO disabled the light with a scan tool -- pulling the battery wiped the settings? #straightouttamyass

thesameguy
August 8th, 2017, 10:24 AM
Maybe it's an electrical problem - eg, the ECM was disconnected so no ABS and no light?

Most ABS systems run a self check with each key cycle and/or a self test at or before 15mph then decide whether or not to set or clear a light. It's definitely possible to have an ABS system that comes and goes, especially if there is a problem with the power supply. IME, these issues are usually really easy to fault trace, there aren't that many components involved. I don't know anything about the Cobra ABS system, but I would do some research before pulling a fuse. Early ABS systems didn't work like later systems, and you can get some weird side effects in terms of assist or proportioning if they don't work right. I don't know where mid '90s Mustangs fit into the spectrum.

Do remember that most ABS systems only engage over 25 or 35mph, so it can be difficult to actually experience them in a safe manner on a public road.

dodint
August 8th, 2017, 11:15 AM
The ABS was pulsing the pedal when pulling up to a stop sign on slightly damp roads. Maybe it was reacting to some weirdness I have going on in the diff (different problem) or maybe the unit is just garbage.

Like I said, the system was completely dormant this entire time including those track days. I don't think the PO just blinked out the code, it's been 6 months and about 1500 miles of varying types of driving.

I was about to pull back into my neighborhood with the ABS light off (cleared on its own from a few minutes before) and hit a bump in the road and it came right back on. I imagine it's a loose connection with something like, as you said, the ECM that is taking the entire system on and offline at a whim. This was also the first time the car has been in the rain (other than the car wash) since I've owned it. The car sat outside in a light rain shower while I was cleaning out the garage bay. It wasn't raining while actually driving.

The completest in me wants the ABS functional because it's a component on the car. The track day guy in me wants to yank the fuse since I've been very happy with how it handles on track without it; one less variable to monitor.

thesameguy
August 8th, 2017, 11:34 AM
For the Cobra, I would probably want it working - not for the track days, but for those unexpected moments on the street. And, nonfunctional ABS will probably hurt resale value when you get there. Definitely understand the hesitation about investing in a repair, though.

It's interesting that you're getting issues pulling up to stops. That to me suggests a problem with a sensor or a tone ring. Since ABS works by comparing sine waves at the wheels to each other, one faulty sensor or ring can cause ABS to engage when it otherwise shouldn't. I personally would not anticipate getting ABS function at a track day (maybe at an autox?); it'd be my guess it worked before but wasn't doing anything, and now it's having a problem with a sensor or ring so you're getting odd behavior and a fault light. Since you had the rear axle apart, I would suspect one of those sensors. In the mid '90s, it's as likely as not you'll need a special tool to pull codes as there was no CAN back then, so different systems (ECM/ABS/SRS) often used different scanners. If you have access to whatever scanner that might be, you can surely pull a code; another starting approach would be to ohm out the sensors, and/or hook up a scope (maybe a multimeter) to a sensor while you spin the relevant wheel and make sure you have a steady & predictable signal. Since it's an intermittent problem, my first guess would be a sensor or wiring to the sensor. I have inadvertently brutalized a couple sensors doing axle work - one on a Saab 9000, once on my Alfas 164. I had no idea anything got damaged until I got a fault code... they were probably just old and iffy to start with. On the 9000, I got the same symptoms as you: ABS kicking in on normal, controlled, low-speed stops.

dodint
August 8th, 2017, 11:52 AM
Absolutely possible.

https://lib.americanmuscle.com/files/contentgenerator/brake-system-tech-guide.html/mustang-brake-sensors-setup.jpg

It's possible that when I pushed in the axle spline assembly as far as I could so I could slip the c-clip back on that I just jammed it somehow with the back of the hub. Either that or snared the back of the cable on something when I was fighting with the e-brake cable. New sensors are fairly inexpensive so I might just replace the rears and see what happens. I need to get down in there tonight anyway to check something else with the diff so I'll poke around and see if anything is frayed.

The DIY video I was watching mentioned removing those sensors when taking the axle splines out. I didn't see the need as I didn't have a clearance issue, but who knows, I might've botched something.

dodint
August 8th, 2017, 11:54 AM
heh. Of course the fronts are $24.99 each and the rears are $74.99 each. Offfffffff couurrrrrrrrrrrsssssse.

novicius
August 8th, 2017, 12:00 PM
:lol:

thesameguy
August 8th, 2017, 12:07 PM
Hey, be happy it's not the 6er. I believe those are just "2nd mortgage."

dodint
August 9th, 2017, 05:53 AM
So when I took this picture:


http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/sfc-jack.jpg


I basically did it just for the picture, and to get the four wheels off at the same time so I could move the fronts to the back. After I took the picture I put the front wheels on, tightened the lugs as much as you could while it was in the air, and then took the two front jack stands out and put the car back on the wheels.
Fast forward to yesterday, I'm out testing the diff and ABS stuff and I hear this terrible noise:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpbuMYUPu8Y

Turns out I torqued the rears to spec when I finished the rear axle job but never torqued the fronts and the lugs were still 'finger tight'.

Weird sound. I thought the caliper was sticking but couldn't detect an issue.

TL;DR: Don't be like me, tighten your shit.

dodint
August 10th, 2017, 06:29 PM
Had a really informative track night last night. All kinds of weather, really fun. I'll post more later but I'm proud of this, my fastest laps of the night from the last session:

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2522&d=1502418451

Laps 2-4 are consistent af, and I put a high value on that.

Laps 5-6 are just weirdly coincidental since I was giving point-bys.

dodint
August 16th, 2017, 10:08 AM
I don't know anything about the Cobra ABS system, but I would do some research before pulling a fuse. Early ABS systems didn't work like later systems, and you can get some weird side effects in terms of assist or proportioning if they don't work right. I don't know where mid '90s Mustangs fit into the spectrum.


Me either, but I found this interesting site: http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/brakes/abs98Diag.html

Because I'm starting to think next year is my last year with the car, this spring I'll start working on the ABS thing so it's functional for the next owner. The information in that link looks helpful.

dodint
August 16th, 2017, 10:32 AM
"The anti-lock brake control module will automatically clear DTCs that have not recurred after 80 ignition cycles"

There is a legitimate chance that I will not come close to having 80 ignition cycles through the rest of my ownership of this car. Is there a way to rent the New Generation STAR Tester? Or would I just have to go to a Ford dealer and pay them to clear it after I diagnose and fix the condition?

thesameguy
August 16th, 2017, 11:01 AM
For a '90s car, there are *definitely* compatible scanners that can deal with the problem. 90% sure my $300 Autel MD802 can - if it can pull & reset ABS codes from an E39 BMW it can almost certainly get 'em from a Mustang. 99% sure something actually high end like a GeniSYS or X31 can. Some shop near you will have these tools. You may find that you can literally turn the key off and on 80 times (pausing a few seconds between for the self-test) and get the reset - because the system is pre-CAN, it likely doesn't have access to other engine information and probably can't tell much more than "power" or "no power." That approach definitely works on Saabs & Volvos. :)

I'd be more than happy to ship you my MD802 if you want to try it - not sure whether $25 or so in shipping is a worthwhile experiment or not for you. Unfortunately I don't know anyone locally with a pre-S197 to try it out on first.

dodint
August 16th, 2017, 11:06 AM
The vehicle needs to achieve 15mph per cycle or it doesn't count. :lol:

I have a local tire/repair guy that is really cool. I need to take the MINI over there to get a stripped lugnut out, I'll ask him if he can check the Mustang code if I bring it by.

I haven't put much thought into this at all yet as it's a spring project. When the time comes I'll jump on SVT Performance and see what they've done. Thanks for the offer, very generous.

dodint
August 30th, 2017, 08:03 AM
What will probably be the last track night of the year will be a TNIA event on September 13th. I might squeeze in a PittRace PDE in October but that involves taking a full day off of work so it's a little harder to swing since I already take two weeks off in the fall as it is. I also highly doubt I'll be making the TNiA Pocono event that I wanted to do in mid-September as I've made no plans for it. John (roofer) may join me for the 13th, and the invitation was extended to Phil (and Russ :p) as well.

After that I plan to clean the car up and likely put it up for sale locally and see if I get any hits. I doubt I will but if I can unload it this fall I don't have to store it this winter. And I'll have certainty in my situation going into next season. Still casually looking at C5 FRCs and E46 330Ci's.

Godson
August 30th, 2017, 01:50 PM
Any thoughts on z34?

dodint
August 30th, 2017, 01:56 PM
None.

Phil_SS
August 30th, 2017, 06:06 PM
You are more an Intrepid guy. ;)

Cam
August 30th, 2017, 07:05 PM
Wait, what? You're selling the Mustang? I feel like you just got it. :?

dodint
August 30th, 2017, 07:43 PM
Wait, what? You're selling the Mustang? I feel like you just got it. :?

Yeah, it is training wheels though. I don't think it's possible that I can add more speed (without cracking open the motor) beyond my ability to catch up with it. It's a fantastic car but it's not my future, if I could get it out of the way before winter I would jump on the chance. If I can't unload it by June then I'll slap slicks on it and go to town. Win-win for me. :)

I like it a lot, I just feel ready to graduate next year.

dodint
August 31st, 2017, 06:02 AM
I was walking to work today and it dawned on me that I could've just simply put it in terms that you would immediately understand: DELETED.

;)

novicius
September 1st, 2017, 04:54 AM
You've certainly left the Cobra in better shape than you found it. :up: :up:

I haven't yet owned a vehicle that at one point or another I haven't thought to my self "I should sell this." :lol:

dodint
September 1st, 2017, 05:10 AM
I don't think it will sell this fall if I'm honest, but then I didn't think I'd sell a house in Wisconsin in November to a cash buyer either. ;)

thesameguy
September 1st, 2017, 08:53 AM
Yeah, you probably cashed in all your luck for a decade on that one.

dodint
September 11th, 2017, 05:44 AM
Absolutely possible.

https://lib.americanmuscle.com/files/contentgenerator/brake-system-tech-guide.html/mustang-brake-sensors-setup.jpg

It's possible that when I pushed in the axle spline assembly as far as I could so I could slip the c-clip back on that I just jammed it somehow with the back of the hub. Either that or snared the back of the cable on something when I was fighting with the e-brake cable.

Even though I don't remember working in that area at all the brake sensor had pushed about halfway out of its housing and was no longer aligning with the ring gear. So after all that whining, pissing, moaning, and research we ended up just pushing it back into place and the ABS light went off before I got to the end of the block. So that's nice, free fix.

thesameguy
September 11th, 2017, 09:20 AM
Eh? There is no bolt or screw holding it in place??

dodint
September 11th, 2017, 09:25 AM
My Dad fixed it while I was working on some emissions stuff, didn't see exactly how it was still in the assembly but just not aligned correctly. Looking at that picture it was as if the portion of the sensor from the two grooves forward was all that was sticking out from the back. Just enough to not catch the toothed ring.

thesameguy
September 13th, 2017, 08:52 AM
I wonder if the sensor body is broken. It needs to be secured in place with a bolt. VR sensors like that work through a magenetic field which is increased and reduced by the tooths on the ring, so the position of the sensor vs. the ring is critical. It has to be secured. I've seen some rusty cars where the bolt has rusted through and then the plastic mounting ear gets broken... maybe you've got something similar? I think you can actually see the bolt in the picture you posted - it's in front of the sensor, towards the camera.

dodint
September 13th, 2017, 09:33 AM
Yeah, the bolt is there and everything looks fine. I swear I didn't take it apart on that side but maybe I did and just forgot. That's the side that I was having trouble trying to learn how to get the e-brake out so it's possible I took it out just on that side for some reason. No idea but I'm not going to argue with results.

novicius
September 13th, 2017, 09:36 AM
My Dad fixed it
Man I need one of these. :D

dodint
September 13th, 2017, 09:39 AM
hah, yeah. His smaller hands help things. We had to get in there and cut off the bolt holding the carbon filter for the fuel system. Had I tried that I would've amputated my hand at the wrist. ;)

thesameguy
September 13th, 2017, 10:27 AM
Shit, I forgot to fix that on the Viggen. Dammit.

dodint
September 27th, 2017, 09:07 AM
Reading tsg's code battle reminded me that I'm throwing up the white flag on my own battle.

Ever since I bought the car I've been getting the P1445 code that is extremely common on this generation of Mustang, as discussed here: https://www.svtperformance.com/forums/threads/check-engine-light-p1445.423081/

I've replaced:
Vapor Canister Purge Valve
Purge Flow Sensor
Vapor Canister
The vacuum lines that connect these components and the line back into the plenum.

The code still presents itself about 20 miles after clearing. I'm done. The only thing I can say is that when I changed the first two components listed it switched from P1443 to P1445.

P1443 Evaporative Emission Control System - Vacuum System - Purge Control Solenoid or Purge Control Valve fault
P1445 Purge Flow Sensor Circuit Input High

It's probably the fucking gas cap or something stupid, but I don't care. I've already listed the car for sale so hopefully the problem will solve itself. :lol:

https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/d/1998-ford-mustang-svt-cobra/6320932392.html

Carlo, I'd be happy to sell it to you for a GTXF discount, can even deliver it in November.

thesameguy
September 27th, 2017, 09:31 AM
Had the same or similar codes on my friend's '98 Volvo - certain variations of the '97-'98 have an insanely complex evap system and are prone to these problems, often with components buried in the wheel well under the liner. Such a PITA.

I don't know the Mustang, but I assume there is a purge valve as well as a vent valve... Usually these systems work by opening a vent valve and a purge valve, letting fresh air into the canister and sucking vapors into the engine. After a specific amount of flow, determined by the purge flow sensor, the vent valve and maybe the purge valve closes. Sometimes the purge valve stays open for a little while after the vent valve closes to create a vacuum in the evap system - depends on the car. The P1443 would indicate the purge valve is not opening or closing so the flow sensor is not seeing what is expects. The shift to P1445 suggests the flow sensor continues to see flow when it doesn't think it should. The difference would appear to be P1443 = no flow when there should be some, P1445 = flow when there should be none. I would assume that means the vent valve is staying open when it shouldn't, or there is otherwise a vacuum leak on the intake side of the canister. Less likely, it could be a wiring problem on the sensor too.

Looking at the system diagram, there is a vent valve. Did you replace this?

https://parts.lakelandford.com/p/Ford__/Solenoid-Solenoid-valve-Vent-VENT-CONTROL-SOLENOID/53393030/F7DZ9F945AB.html

Aftermarket versions are $30-$40 on rockauto.

Looks like there is also a separator and some vacuum hose involved in the area.

dodint
September 27th, 2017, 09:40 AM
No.

thesameguy
September 27th, 2017, 09:49 AM
Seems like the likely culprit, or at least something in that area - maybe a hose or the separator. You could probably use a Mityvac to test 90% of the system; if it comes back clean, replace the valve.

Or don't. But I do think a CEL will pretty dramatically hurt the value.

Evap systems suck.

novicius
September 27th, 2017, 09:59 AM
https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/d/1998-ford-mustang-svt-cobra/6320932392.html

Carlo, I'd be happy to sell it to you for a GTXF discount, can even deliver it in November.
Wrong window for me, I'm not likely to move on the Bananastang for at least another year at the earliest (if ever).

Besides that 4V action is too burly for me. I'm not even good enough for the pleb 2V. :lol: #glws

dodint
September 27th, 2017, 10:11 AM
I can also deliver it in April. ;)

You're probably right, tsg.

Anyone familiar with Mustangs knows this code so I don't think it would be a huge deal. I could be a dick like the guy before me and just clear the code for the test drive. Not really my style, though.

I'm just pretty fatigued in chasing this problem if I'm honest. This has been a 'cheap $25 fix' for a while now, I have something like $146 into it now. Not a huge sum but the failure of this component has zero impact on drive-ability, no gas smell or anything. Not sure if it creates an MPG issue since I don't ever drive it in a situation where taking MPG readings would be useful. Either way it's not a real 'problem' like the ABS issue, it's just annoying having that yellow CEL staring me down.

dodint
September 29th, 2017, 08:31 AM
Have someone coming to look tomorrow. Would be nice to get it gone. I like it a ton but without the desire to modify the motor or install an IRS I just don't think I'll get much farther with it.

thesameguy
September 29th, 2017, 09:06 AM
GLWS... nothing like not having a race car over the winter. Who needs that shit?

novicius
September 29th, 2017, 09:54 AM
She'll move, no worries -- even amongst jaded Mustang owners, that T-56 will make the sale. :up: :up:

dodint
October 2nd, 2017, 10:22 AM
Looking at the system diagram, there is a vent valve. Did you replace this?

https://parts.lakelandford.com/p/Ford__/Solenoid-Solenoid-valve-Vent-VENT-CONTROL-SOLENOID/53393030/F7DZ9F945AB.html

Aftermarket versions are $30-$40 on rockauto.

Looks like there is also a separator and some vacuum hose involved in the area.

Ordered it today, should be here Wednesday and for once I don't have anything planned this weekend. Going to swap it out and check the tubing to see if this is the culprit. I really hope so as I don't really know where else to go with this. Last track day of the year is on the 18th, after that it's going into storage.

No sale, guy had an 'emergency drywall job' pop up Saturday and hasn't contacted me since. Oh well.

thesameguy
October 2nd, 2017, 10:49 AM
Best of luck! Do you have a Mityvac or a small (TINY) air compressor? You should be able to pull some vacuum or put up to 1psi (NO more) of air in the system at various points to test for leaks. I'd start on before the purge valve and aim back at the tank, but you can also test individual sections, like from the outside, through the fresh air vent, to the purge valve, and from the tank, through the canister, to the purge valve. It's a damned PITA, but better than crawling under the car repeatedly. I think '98 is probably too early to have a test port near the purge valve, but maybe not? It'd look like this:

http://batauto.com/articles/waekon/evap_service_port_a_330x253.JPG

dodint
October 2nd, 2017, 11:17 AM
All the reading I've done on forums and stuff talk about doing smoke tests, which sounds like an even bigger pain in the ass than what you're describing.

I don't recall seeing anything like that in my travels around the engine bay, but I'll take a look. If the vent valve sensor is where I think it is (above the diff, near the gas tank) it's readily accessible and should be a fairly easy swap. I read a post saying there is a vacuum line that runs right above the differential housing and is fairly easy to cut or crack, so I'm going to look at that as well. I only paid $32 for the part and it probably should be updated anyway, its not like I'm going to return it.

thesameguy
October 2nd, 2017, 11:35 AM
No idea what I'm talking about, but that all sounds about right to me.

Smoke tests are nice because you can fill the system with smoke and see where it comes out, pointing you very quickly to a leak. But a vacuum/pressure test is easily diy, and while it won't show you the leak, it will tell you if there is one. By testing individual sections, you can pretty quickly figure out where a problem might be.

That said, I do think the vent valve or surrounding hose is the issue and you're likely to solve the issue in the first pass (I mean, you replaced everything else already) but an extra 15-30 minutes with a mityvac isn't a huge time suck. Just be sure you use emissions- or fuel-rated hose for replacements. Cooling system/ regular vacuum/etc hose will fail real quick handling gas vapors.

dodint
October 5th, 2017, 02:12 PM
So, went to swap this vent valve in real quick, had about an hour to dedicate to it.

Can't find the old one. It's not at the canister in the front passenger wheel well, it's not at the rear near the gas tank. It's not in the engine bay, that I can tell. Either it's not equipped on the SVT, it was removed by the PO (can't see the electric hookup anywhere, though), or I am completely missing it. I got the car high enough in the air I could roll around underneath on a creeper. No dice.

Will probably have to spend more money in the form of a Chilton or Haynes now.

thesameguy
October 5th, 2017, 06:21 PM
Well, that's weird. The part is listed for the Cobra, so it should be there.

dodint
October 5th, 2017, 06:26 PM
Yepper. :lol:

thesameguy
October 5th, 2017, 07:04 PM
FUCKING CARS.

dodint
October 6th, 2017, 05:33 AM
I KNOW.

The way I have the car in the garage, the driver rear wheel is on the wall side and I didn't have the tire off, so I couldn't see the wheel well terribly well laying on the ground underneath. The '03 Ford Shop Manual says that's where it was in 2003. I poked my head in there this morning and didn't see anything. The shop manual did not say to take the fender well shroud off (but did specify to do so for the carbon canister up front) but it might be under there. Plan to poke around in there this weekend.

Car obviously didn't sell. Guy had an 'emergency drywall job' that day and never got in contact again. About 80% of the offers I've gotten have been for trades. I DON'T WANT YOUR CRAP BOX. Someone offered a '11 Chevy Malibu. WHY? Others include a funky '92 Dodge Stealth, and a Yamaha R6.

2635

2636

dodint
October 10th, 2017, 08:59 AM
Am wrong for expecting, minimum, $5,500 for this car? I paid $5k for it, sunk $3,900 into it over the summer, and now people trying to get it for, I presume, $5k. :lol:

Guy offered me the $5.5k but I have to drive two hours west to show it to him. He's driving from Indianapolis. Which means I'd have to bring the wife.

Final offer is $5.4k and he comes all the way. I enjoy buying more than selling, that's for sure.

novicius
October 10th, 2017, 09:56 AM
Just haven't found the right buyer.

Maybe advertise on some PittRace/autox boards?

dodint
October 10th, 2017, 10:00 AM
Yeah. I mean, it's the worst time of year to sell a RWD V8 track car. I knew I wouldn't get a premium.

I accepted this guys $5.4k offer and then he went completely silent when I gave him my availability. I guess the only reason I care is I want to go to the track next Wednesday and I know as soon as I pay the entry fee this guy will show up with a trailer. Then I have to choose between pissing away $225 or taking the 650 (or MINI, I guess) up there.

thesameguy
October 10th, 2017, 10:03 AM
Just tell him you'll be out of town next week, and if he wants the car he needs to come get it now or wait til the week following. That gives you a good excuse to reach out to him and confirm his intentions and an out in case he's a flake.

FWIW, I think your price is great. It'd be amongst the cheapest SVTs on the West Coast, probably the cheapest once you factor in the mods. I think it would sell reasonably quickly here. Have you considered ebay? There is a high listing fee but I think you get to leave it up for a really long time. That said, "sold" listings for '96+ Cobras are weaksauce on ebay, so that might suck.

It could be SN95 Cobra butts up too closely with S197 Mustang and the market is weak for essentially comparable cars. I'm sure I'm going to hit that with the XJR - X350s are getting cheap, diluting the market even for a premium X308.

novicius
October 10th, 2017, 10:05 AM
Springtime would help. :( :up:

dodint
October 10th, 2017, 10:05 AM
You know there would be a 100/100 chance this is the session I ball it up if I have it sold, right? ;)

I'm not at all desperate to sell. Just forgot how much 'fun' CL selling is. I have free winter indoor storage for it so I don't give a fuck if it sells. :P

thesameguy
October 10th, 2017, 10:31 AM
Yes, you will totally wreck it, for sure. :lol:

When I decide to sell something I get antsy about moving it, so I definitely understand. If this dude is flaky, fuck him, do what you wanna do and make him work around you. You've got the space and don't need the cash so you're in control.

Well, as "in control" as any Mustang driver is.

novicius
October 10th, 2017, 10:37 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/roHXWGn2z1Z9S/giphy.gif

Seems appropriate. :lol:

dodint
October 17th, 2017, 06:39 AM
Had a really informative track night last night. All kinds of weather, really fun. I'll post more later but I'm proud of this, my fastest laps of the night from the last session:

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2522&d=1502418451

Laps 2-4 are consistent af, and I put a high value on that.

Laps 5-6 are just weirdly coincidental since I was giving point-bys.

This is about two months old. I never posted it because I had SO MANY QUESTIONS but when I really thought about it there were just too many variables in play for me to nail down a reason why I was 4 seconds slower that day.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pieu_QKtNrA

The track was resurfaced.
The track was damp.
The tires were more worn.
The ambient temp was much cooler.
First time running with subframe connectors.

Just so many reasons why I could've been slower, I'm not going to worry about it.

The video is interesting to me (obvs), sorry for the shakiness as I forgot my screw mount and was using a cell phone compression mount (fucking amateur). No spins, just some bobbles through some of the off camber turns. The highlight is, I guess, that in the first session I was one of the ones on actual road tires and not slicks so I was able to catch and pass some cars that are way out of my league, namely the '13 Laguna Seca Mustang and that white Camaro. They had no problem getting me back in the driest session. There was a Corvette that went off in the last session but he got back on before I got there, saw it on another Youtube video. He just pushed wide on the outside of the big u-turn that leads to the front straight.

Last track day of the year is tomorrow. Running a PittRace PDE in Group 2 Solo. Show up and run alternating sessions from 1:30-5:30pm, should be a nice way to end the season. Car is going into my MILs extra garage bay on October 29th if it doesn't sell. It's priced aggressively and I took some legitimate 'for sale' style pictures: https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/d/1998-ford-mustang-svt-cobra-6/6320932392.html

There is a 'Cobra Clone' priced higher than my car at the moment. :lol:

novicius
October 17th, 2017, 07:03 AM
It's a definite deal -- maybe crosspost into some Moostang forums? :up: :up: #svtperf

dodint
October 17th, 2017, 07:04 AM
Yeah, I need to put it on SVT Performance, thanks for reminding me. Russ is posting it at rrax, too.

I'm going up your way in a few weeks. Just sayin'.

novicius
October 17th, 2017, 07:25 AM
Ping me, we'll do foods. :up: :up:

CudaMan
October 17th, 2017, 10:08 AM
Recent track resurfacing would totally do it, especially in not totally dry conditions.

dodint
October 19th, 2017, 08:03 AM
Ran again yesterday. Was an HPDE, not a TNiA event, but I ran G2 Solo so no instruction other than a classroom session. The car is ready for a refresh (brake fluid, pads, tires, other stuff I'm not sure is serious or not, etc) but I got some great laps in early. It was the best I've ever felt, moved some braking points back and committed to blind turns earlier to get some extra time out of it. Unfortunately I think I'm so close to the edge of what I can do with this car and tires that any improvement on the stop watch will require everything to align correctly and it just didn't happen for me. My best lap from yesterday was a 2:15.2 and my PR is a 2:15.0 from before that resurface.

Here are those two laps overlayed on each other, it's plotting MPH over the 2:15.X period with both laps starting at a common point:

http://nathangess.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/data.png

It's fairly obvious (now) that my speed into Turn 1 on the gold lap was so much slower (about 14mph) that it wasn't enough to make up for the large improvement I made at the ~40 mark and the ~1:06 mark. I must've, on the gold lap, let someone by on the front straight and completely neutralized my Turn 17 exit speed from the prior lap.

I think I need to just look at that chart and be happy that over the course of the summer I have improved enough that the gold line is almost completely higher than the purple line for the entire duration of the lap. I'm carrying a higher speed through almost every turn on the course, I just need to string together two fast laps in a row so I can get that 'optimal' number that I have in my head, which I put to be around 2:13.5 or so. Oh well.
The guy next to me in the paddock was in an '07 Shelby GT500 and set a PR at 2:10, so I'm not far off from that and I'm driving an ox cart. But still, not really a fair comparison I think, I don't know his background.

If I'm still driving this car in April it'll be on slicks which I expect to improve my time a good bit. It'll nullify any comparisons to these years numbers, though.

dodint
October 20th, 2017, 09:14 AM
These are the offers that have been made to me so far:

'92 Stealth R/T + $1500
'11 Chevy Malibu
'01 Yamaha R6
$5,700 but I have to drive it 5 hours to Indianapolis for him to test drive.
$5,500 to the same guy if he picked up, but he no showed.
$5,000 + a Glock 17
$5,000
$4,000
And a bunch of CL scammers.

None of those folks went beyond the 'make a text offer' stage.

I dropped the price down to $5,200 now that it needs new brake pads and I included the emissions code information in the ad instead of telling people in conversation. Amusingly a guy I was working with last week texted me right after I updated the ad (not knowing I had updated it) asking to come see it tomorrow. So that edit cost me at least $700. :lol:

Anything over $5k and I'll be happy to have it gone. The guy was asking how I wanted paid and if I had a notary near the house so those are positive signs. Going to wash and vacuum tonight and get all the little bits together.

dodint
October 20th, 2017, 09:15 AM
Oh, I'm also selling (for a family member) an ~05 Cadillac CTS w/100k miles and a set of snow tires for about $4,000 if anyone needs one.

;)

thesameguy
October 20th, 2017, 09:17 AM
I feel like I am going to posting the exact same thing in about three weeks when I list the XJR. Poop.

novicius
October 20th, 2017, 09:33 AM
I'm definitely in the same ballpark of loss (or more!) if I sell the Bananastang. Doesn't matter what I do to it. :lol:

dodint
October 21st, 2017, 06:29 AM
Sold! Nice old guy, reminds me of Carlo. Wants to cruise it. Has a 97 Maroon GT but a tree fell on it so he's upgrading. Wish him well.

Six months to find either a C5 Z06 or E46 330CI. Or whatever else looks amusing.

novicius
October 21st, 2017, 08:02 AM
Congrats! :D :up: #2old2race

dodint
October 22nd, 2017, 08:07 PM
Oh, I'm also selling (for a family member) an ~05 Cadillac CTS w/100k miles and a set of snow tires for about $4,000 if anyone needs one.

;)

I am considering just buying this as my winter beater. I have been looking at old Passat wagons and other stuff, but the CTS ticks off a bunch of boxes.

Need:
Less than $4500
Automatic
Snowable
Looks nondescript in the driveway; nice neighborhood n'at.
Comfortable on 900 mile drives.
Can carry more than the MINI.

1st gen CTS does fill those rather well. It's a little smaller than the 650, I think. Feels that way on the road anyway.

Trading in a BMW for two GM cars would be unsettling though.

Kchrpm
October 23rd, 2017, 01:58 AM
A Corvette and a Cadillac? Who are you, me?

dodint
October 23rd, 2017, 05:23 AM
I'm going to go get a shower now; bringing the wire brush.

I still want an old Impala SS. Not sure I could get a good one for that cheap and it's probably not the best winter car to begin with. :lol:

Phil_SS
October 23rd, 2017, 07:13 AM
Do they even exist as a everyday car? I would think any one that was worth it's salt would be a collector car that you wouldn't want to ruin by driving it during a Western PA winter.

And if you are thinking SS then a Marauder should do the trick as well.

dodint
October 23rd, 2017, 07:16 AM
when I say "old" I mean the 7th gen, '94-96 I think. My Aunt had one when I was little and I've always had a soft spot for them. They're still around but the market is weird, either high end enthusiasts or beaters.

Phil_SS
October 23rd, 2017, 07:26 AM
I knew what you meant. :) As there was no way you want to daily drive a pre 1970 car in Western PA winter.

Before someone chimes in: Anything with the moniker Impala SS after 97 doesn't really exist. It's like Metallica after the Black Album.

dodint
October 23rd, 2017, 07:28 AM
Yes!

thesameguy
October 23rd, 2017, 07:48 AM
OTOH, a FWD Impala SS does in fact check off a lot of boxes, especially nondescript. :D

I would personally avoid the shit out of any B-platform Passat, except maybe a W8 4motion, because WTF:lol:

dodint
October 23rd, 2017, 07:51 AM
Was talking about this in chat, but if you search for sub $4500 cars within 50 miles that are automatics you get a ton of stuff like Berettas, Pontiac G6s, those weird bubble Eclipses, beat to hell Subarus, a Pontiac Sunbird (dafuq, we had one growing up, yikes), and then a whole bunch of Jetta and Passat wagons that *look* a ton better than the competition but I have no idea whats happening under the hood.

If I get serious about anything I'll post them up and let you guys tear them apart.

thesameguy
October 23rd, 2017, 08:15 AM
Man, I thought things were pretty dire around here! Definitely better options in that price category.

Is this why you were asking about the Viggen? If so, a regular 9-3 "HOT" can be pretty easily tuned for the missing power, and frankly you probably wouldn't want 225/45-17s as winter tires anyway. A $2500 9-3 would probably make a pretty solid winter beater.

Maybe also a later W201 E-class?

dodint
October 23rd, 2017, 08:31 AM
I've been intrigued by the Viggen since you bought it. Had I been able to buy it, it would have been more than a 'winter beater' to me. Basically would've pulled year round duty, basically making the C5 a garage queen. And it would have been a fantastic excuse to take a week off and hit of the Left Coast.

But it's a manual. Alas.

Unrelated but I loathe Mercedes so unless it's a '55 300SL it's not going on my property.

thesameguy
October 23rd, 2017, 08:46 AM
ROFL.

Well, you could find a 2003 9-3 with the Viggen appearance option. Those existed, and existed in an automatic. There are also 9-5 Aeros in automatics. They're quite fun. The major yin and yang of the 9-3 and 9-5 is the 9-3 is a much shittier car but much simpler, too. The 9-5 was genuinely good (IMHO) but has an Audi-esque (not quite) suspension complexity and they're all getting to or are past refreshment time. :| Otherwise, the cars are very similar in performance, size, and economy all said and done.

dodint
October 23rd, 2017, 08:48 AM
Ash says I can get a manual, I just have to rent her a car if the MINI is ever in the shop. ;)

She's driven the 650 twice.

thesameguy
October 23rd, 2017, 08:58 AM
Nice!

21Kid
October 24th, 2017, 03:07 PM
I knew what you meant. :) As there was no way you want to daily drive a pre 1970 car in Western PA winter.

Before someone chimes in: Anything with the moniker Impala SS after 97 doesn't really exist. It's like Metallica after the Black Album.
:lol:

dodint
October 25th, 2017, 06:34 AM
The 650i is depreciating at a meteoric rate. It has lost $3k in NADA retail value since June, which is about 15% of its value. Normally that wouldn't concern me but I don't want to take on a loan for the C5Z without trading in the 650i.

Things may look different in the spring but I'm not sure the C5Z Vette is really viable. I could afford to buy it, daily drive it, and keep the 650. But that extra payment would suck up a lot of the budget for tires, brakes, registration fees, overnight travel, etc. I might end up having to cut right to the E46 330CI if I'm going to be back on track in April.

I wonder how much of a performance gap there is between the E46 and the Mustang. E46 has lower power but it's more nimble, and I'll be able to strip it down several hundred pounds.

Another option would be just dialing back to the C5 FRC and building up the motor later if I need more power.

Lots to think about

thesameguy
October 25th, 2017, 09:07 AM
I'll bet all said and done they are about the same around a track. Things would probably change based on the balance of turns to straights, etc., but dollar for dollar I'll bet overall times are similar.

dodint
October 25th, 2017, 10:45 AM
Just a glimpse at numbers:

'98 SVT: 305 hp / 3354lbs / 0-60: 5.9
'04 330: 225 hp / 3285lbs / 0-60: 5.6

Hmmm. Minimum weight on a SpecE46 car is 2850lbs w/driver.

Not looking good. Need to save some pennies.

thesameguy
October 25th, 2017, 11:56 AM
I would not be at all surprised to find a big piece of that 0-60 disparity is 1998 Ford tires vs. 2004 BMW tires, too. 1/4 mile might be a more useful statistic.

I looked briefly for comparisons between C5Z and SVT and it's pretty clear there isn't one. :lol: I would be interested in a theoretical dollar for dollar build - I imagine you can make a pretty quick SVT for that ten grand, but I'm not sure you'd be able to fully address the suspension and CoG issues. Several years ago on a plane I did a pen & paper SVT build out of a GRM and hit $20k pretty fast. ;) Seems like the Corvette really is the right answer there (unless you want to do something like a later 350Z)... and probably the next real step up. Anything sub $15k and you'll probably be making some serious compromises, unless you can buy someone else's old track car at a discount.

dodint
October 25th, 2017, 12:02 PM
The 330 angle is that it's the car I want to compete in so it cuts out some steps to get to that goal. I want to start racing door to door after law school though, and I don't graduate until May 2020. So 2018 is another HPDE year, then go to a racing school or two in 2019 and then complete the build that winter.

I could just buy the Corvette and run that till 2020, sell it, and buy someone else's completed E46 build in 2020.

The move towards an E46 would be more about practicality and cost than for the pure excitement of it. Which I guess is obvious anyway.

The compromise is just getting a regular C5 which I could get for close to four figures and would still scoot.

I think I enjoy the planning and the hunt as much as the actual ownership, feel free to ignore my ramblings if they're getting redundant.

thesameguy
October 25th, 2017, 01:40 PM
Is it possible that by 2020 you'll be wanting an E90+?

dodint
October 25th, 2017, 01:53 PM
Nah. BMW died for me around 2008.

I have owned and worked on an E46 already so it's familiar territory and relatively easy to work on.

The ideal 2020 garage looks like this:

My DD, currently the 650i, could change, probably to a tow vehicle.
Her Cayman.
DMC-12
Track car
MINI for her winter duty.

thesameguy
October 25th, 2017, 02:02 PM
That gives you four years of E90s! E46s are simpler, but I can't help but wonder if 230hp is going to feel very fast even at 2800lbs at that point. If the SVT was insufficient, I can't imagine less in three years will.

dodint
October 25th, 2017, 02:07 PM
For clarity, the E46 is the basis for a spec series. That's what I meant by door to door competition. It's an independent Spec you can run with a couple of different groups (BMWCCA, NASA, others).

The question would be do I go E46 now and build my own car while HPDE'ing it, or have fun in the Vette that I can then sell and buy a turnkey Spec car. Fantastic dilemma to be in.

Newer-than-SN95 Mustangs are off the table, not my thing even if they're fast when done well.

thesameguy
October 25th, 2017, 03:04 PM
I get Spec E46... I'm just questioning whether it will still be E46 or you'll still be interested in three years. Devil's advocate, and whatnot. ;)

dodint
October 25th, 2017, 05:03 PM
Completely valid observation. Money no object and I'd build up a really sweet E86 to race but that's not happening anytime soon.

It's MUCH more likely that I defect to Porsche and buy an older 944 or 911 track car than the chances I would buy anything from BMW made after ~2010. Even the models I do like (M235i, for instance) are too techno-stuffed to strip and enjoy. For mortals like me, anyway.

thesameguy
October 25th, 2017, 06:06 PM
Yeah, all the crazy computers are going to make it really hard to make race cars down the road. Although, that stuff does get hacked... it'll be interesting to see how things unfold.

dodint
October 27th, 2017, 08:52 PM
Just a glimpse at numbers:

'98 SVT: 305 hp / 3354lbs / 0-60: 5.9
'04 330: 225 hp / 3285lbs / 0-60: 5.6

Hmmm. Minimum weight on a SpecE46 car is 2850lbs w/driver.

Not looking good. Need to save some pennies.

Looking at this another way.

98 SVT Cobra; 2:15 at PittRace
Spec E46; 2:00 same
Z06; 1:53

What that looks like:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-nGPTYdJ6w

Russ's dude:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX8-sHgPWvc

Slug:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4edKi7FuCAw

Looking at these vids, it seems like the E46 is gapped pretty close to the middle between the SVT Cobra and the Z06.

Godson
October 27th, 2017, 08:54 PM
Strano ain't no bitch

dodint
October 28th, 2017, 06:02 AM
The SVT was the only car there on street tires, but I don't think slicks would buy 15 seconds in the Mustang.

thesameguy
October 28th, 2017, 08:02 AM
The SVT was the only car there on street tires, but I don't think slicks would buy 15 seconds in the Mustang.

I dunno the course, but I wouldn't rule it out. I'm not even a good driver but knocked eight seconds off Infineon on Hoosiers vs Star Specs in our Lemons car - about 2200lbs and 240hp.

dodint
October 28th, 2017, 09:25 AM
Even if the Mustang gained 10 seconds a lap on slicks the E46 is only 7 seconds behind the Z06 and 5 seconds ahead of the SVT at that point. I really don't believe it's capable of running 2:00 there or I would've kept it. :P
For reference, the NASA Camaro Mustang Challenge (the only series I would've ran the SVT in) PittRace Full lap record is 2:01.210 set in a Pontiac Firebird Formula, that record was set three days before the video of my laps I posted above. Of all the races that series runs, only one Mustang holds a lap record at all and that is at Road America. To me, that supports my claim that the SVT just wasn't going to approach the same times as the E46. I'll have to poke around and see if I can find the actual SpecE46 lap record as that video is just one guys best run that I found while dicking around at 1am.

When I watch the E46 video what catches my eye is how quickly the I6 moves through the rpm range. For the entire lap with the SVT I would shift; d3, u4, d3, u4, d3, u4. That's 6 gear changes over 2.78 miles. The E46 is rowing through the gears all over the course; I really think that makes a lot of the difference. Really wish he had telemetry overlaid on his video, but you can see the tach pretty clearly and it's bouncing around nicely through the top of the range.

Obviously the SVT is used as a baseline as it's the whole of my personal tracking experience (though I have parade lapped in E46 at VIR, woo). The focus of my concern right now is whether the gap between the E46 and C5Z is worth the $10k+ premium, especially since I'm not a very quick driver to begin with.

As always, thanks for the discourse. My disagreement isn't meant to signal that I don't appreciate your input; I just thrive in an adversarial setting. ;)

thesameguy
October 28th, 2017, 08:58 PM
Ain't no thing. I read somewhere that everyone thinks better out loud - I know I certainly do. Talking about things is how you get to the best solutions.

Phil_SS
November 1st, 2017, 04:34 PM
I argue with myself all the time.....seems to help.

dodint
November 1st, 2017, 04:44 PM
1:58.510 is the SE46 PittRace lap record, to close that loop.

thesameguy
November 1st, 2017, 07:08 PM
I think without knowing the level of prep of the exemplar SVT & Z06 it's a multi-fruit comparison. if those cars also didn't have a 500lb weight reduction, slicks, cage, seat. suspension package it's kinda just three numbers. Although the E46 was a good car, I find it hard to believe it could keep up that well with a Z06 with a major prep difference. The Z06 is a GM car, but mechanically was very well executed.

dodint
November 1st, 2017, 07:43 PM
The SVT was at the peak of what I was willing to take it, though. And the E46 is built to a spec, so that is pretty much optimized unless the rulebook changes. In fact, since the power is stock I can concievably go faster in a non spec 330CI because I can run under the required minimum weight.

You are right, it's not a straight comparison. I was trying to get a feel for the distance between the cars and now I think I have a more realistic handle on it.

I don't know what is going to happen. I may shelve everything and pursue the DMC.

My GI Bill runs out and the wife quits her job for three years starting next fall. Whatever I decide to go with I am pretty much locked into until almost 2021 so I'm going to probe it from all angles until then.

thesameguy
November 1st, 2017, 08:18 PM
Probe. Heh.

dodint
November 1st, 2017, 08:43 PM
We are talking proposed Mustang replacements here. ;)

CudaMan
November 1st, 2017, 11:07 PM
Apples, pears, and bananas. What do you like best? :)

Also Russ's Dude's laptime vs yours isn't a fair comparison to begin with given his experience and badassery behind the wheel. :up:

dodint
November 2nd, 2017, 04:33 AM
Oh I know. I used his lap as an example precisely because he is so badass. He is doing the car a great service. ;)

thesameguy
November 2nd, 2017, 12:31 PM
But getting that lap took ALL of his skill and prep... it might be unobtainable to mere humans. The Z06 might be able to roll off the showroom floor with an average guy behind the wheel and eclipse the SuperE46 by several seconds. I don't really get the nature of the comparison. It's just three numbers with no context.

Still, if you've got four years to commit to this car *and* you're committed to Spec E46 it'd make sense to me to get going on it. It's a lower price of entry, and gaining years of experience with the car before you need to compete in it sounds like all win. Plus, E46s are not going to get easier to find. E36s are becoming scarce.

dodint
November 15th, 2017, 11:34 AM
I've begun to shift focus and retool my budget to best accommodate the purchase of a DMC-12 as early as May. Trade away the 6 on the DMC (need to find a conventional dealer that accepts trades on classic cars) and then buy an E46 that can HPDE and pull winter duty. It's the course of action that scratches all my itches and keeps my garage from swelling into 5+ cars.

On the E46 front, I really want this car: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-BMW-3-Series/222694656973

It is exactly what I want. Slicktop stripper E46 coupe. The ZHP bits will have to be taken off to run SE46 but that won't be an issue for a few years. The car has about 50 watchers but no takers. It's a special car, but there may be only 20 people in the country that wants one, and it's not a popular time of year to be buying a project. NADA value on it just reaches for about $6k. If he relists it next week I *may* hit him with a best offer of about $5500 and see if he wants to play. I could fly down and drive it back before the snow gets crazy and then dump it in my MILs garage for the winter. Or drive it instead of the 6, dump that into storage for the winter instead.

I think sacrificing the 650 is the only path to DMC ownership before my window closes in fall of 2018. That would mean no DMC until about 2021 if I don't do it now. And they're appreciating in value as it is.

Exciting times.

novicius
November 15th, 2017, 12:27 PM
Trade away the 6 on the DMC (need to find a conventional dealer that accepts trades on classic cars)

The 650i is depreciating at a meteoric rate. It has lost $3k in NADA retail value since June, which is about 15% of its value.
You're willing to take a hit on this deal on three ends: poor trade-in value for the 6 on top of the continued depreciation for the 6, and then dealer sticker price for a classic DMC?

dodint
November 15th, 2017, 12:56 PM
Well, at the rate of acceleration of payments by April I will have caught up to the value of the 6 so I shouldn't be upside down on it. I can't buy a DMC until I have a winter car anyway so its not happening until the last threat of snow blows out.

As for the DMC the value comes down to condition. I'm willing to pay about $35k for exactly what I want. It's possible I'll find something for $25k that needs work I can do and I'll just take that. If I find something in the lower range carrying a few thousand from the 6 won't matter. The DMC is a forever car so I don't really give a hoot how long it takes to pay off, so long as the payment doesn't strangle me.

Today I calculated the absolute maximum loan I'm willing to take out to buy a DMC and calculated the payment. I took that amount and, starting next week, will be putting that sum towards the 6. It's about a 50% increase over what I'm paying on the 6 now. If I can happily maintain that payment then I know I'm good to go with proceeding with the transaction.

I want a DMC badly. I almost had it in 2016. But I'm not willing to leverage myself to the gills to get it.

I also might have an easy way out. I've been talking with the owner of DMC MW for a few years off and on. I think he might be willing to do the deal himself, or at least know a reputable collector dealer that will make it easier.

The other route is a lot simpler. Just trade the six down on an E46 and buy the DMC outright. The only thing holding that up is that I'm swooning over that one I linked to so I won't be surprised if the E46 comes first. I can't see a scenario where the 6 sells via private party once it crosses 100,000 miles. I'm at 95k miles now.

novicius
November 16th, 2017, 05:08 AM
Well, at the rate of acceleration of payments by April I will have caught up to the value of the 6 so I shouldn't be upside down on it.

I can't see a scenario where the 6 sells via private party once it crosses 100,000 miles. I'm at 95k miles now.
Regardless of the status of your loan, that lost extra money is depreciation in action. Ends up being value lost once you trade it in -- and then you're also accepting less-than-Market Value (which is already low) by trading it in on top of that. By focusing on only the monthly cost, it ends up costing you thousands.

Unfortunately the only way to get your money's worth is to just drive the Sex-Fitty for 5 years... which I understand that you don't want to do so you gotta take the hit. :toast:

dodint
November 16th, 2017, 06:38 AM
I admire your message but I'm not sure you've considered the audience. I'm juggling toy cars, not running a business. I didn't buy a 9 year old $80k (depreciated to $20k) GT car thinking I'd sell it for profit one day.

I have previously considered your position before. Since the wife stuck me with both car payments instead of taking over the MINI as intended it has crossed my mind to sell the MINI (I dunno, for profit? Not sure, haven't looked) and giving her the 650. Part of the reason I'm in this position was because my purchase of the 650 was built on a budget that didn't include the MINI payment; my wife is underemployed. No big deal as I'm going to mooch off her like a mofo later but for now it's pinched off a lot of my options.
Original plan was to keep the 650 for a while, then trade the Mustang on a new track car and pick up a DMC as well. I'm starting to explore options that are a little less cumbersome because her financial situation is only going to get worse as she enters her doctoral program (fully unemployed).

You're talking about value lost and it's falling on deaf ears.

Allow me to speak your language for a moment. Say I eat $4k on the 650 next summer and purchase a DMC in 2018. The 650 loan, as structured at original purchase, pays off in mid-2021. I would bet the title to a car of your choice that I make the $4k back up in DMC appreciation by 2025. The $35k car I want now was a $25k car in 2005. I'm not saying the appreciation is linear but I don't think it has peaked yet. The 650 will probably bottom out around $9k and stay there in perpetuity sometime in the early 2020s.

That E46 I want in the ebay ad above has a maximum collateral value of $7600, for reference. The CV on my E36 was ~$2800.

novicius
November 16th, 2017, 06:50 AM
You're talking about value lost and it's falling on deaf ears.
Cool, just posting my thoughts. :toast: :toast:

We still on for dinner tomorrow? :D

dodint
November 16th, 2017, 06:55 AM
:lol: I was going to ask the same thing regardless of what your reply was.

:lol:

Fuck yeah. I just have to stop in Tomah and get some cheese. When we lived here nobody wanted it. Now all of a sudden I have curd orders from about four different people.

novicius
November 16th, 2017, 07:05 AM
Noice. :lol: :up:

21Kid
November 16th, 2017, 08:51 AM
I was going to say... I hope no one is buying a "fun car" in hopes of recouping it's purchase price.

You know that you can get cheese curds pretty much anywhere in Wisconsin, right? :lol:

dodint
November 16th, 2017, 08:55 AM
Yeah but my favorite cheese store is in Tomah, I lived near it for a short while. Old stompin' grounds n'at. Plus it's about halfway between St. Paul and Carlo.

novicius
November 16th, 2017, 09:13 AM
I was going to say... I hope no one is buying a "fun car" in hopes of recouping it's purchase price.
Of course, that's money burnt -- but I was talking about his current Daily Driver. ;)

dodint
November 16th, 2017, 09:29 AM
All my cars are fun cars.

#DINKLife

novicius
November 16th, 2017, 09:34 AM
Got it! :up: :up:

dodint
November 16th, 2017, 09:45 AM
This winter will answer a lot of questions. The 650 did 'okay' in the 2" of snow that fell here in St. Paul. But that was on relatively flat terrain. I'm not confident it's going to make it up the hill to my house. If that's the case there is no chance at all that I would give it to Ash as a daily driver car. And if it wants to be a YUGE pain in the ass I have a practical reason to sell it next summer.

21Kid
November 16th, 2017, 11:33 AM
Ah, didn't realize you were "driving through".



"Favorite Cheese Store" :lol: You are officially a cheesehead now. ;)

dodint
November 16th, 2017, 12:00 PM
No better way to spend 13 hours than staring longingly down I-94/90/80/76.

novicius
November 21st, 2017, 08:08 AM
Thanks for stopping by last Friday -- your cigar might have been weak but man I really dug mine. :lol:

That Sex-Fitty is The Business. M or no, that's a Forever Car right there. :up: :up:

dodint
November 21st, 2017, 08:46 AM
Cigar was good, I sucked it down past the ring, just a touch sweet for what I usually have. No complaint at all. I was there for the conversation anyway; hoped you thanked the wife for babysitting while we were out.

Thanks, it really is a fantastic GT car. It does what it's meant to do very very well. And I can parallel park it. ;)

It rained continually from St. Paul to my house over the course of the 28 hours or so. Pretty shitty; I think I set a record for the longest continual hydroplane from Howe to Pittsburgh. I just set the cruise control at 81mph and pointed it at my house. I did hit a 2x4" in the middle of the night going full speed, glad it didn't hop up and stab a hole in the undercarriage.

For what it's worth I've pulled up on the idea of throwing cash hand over fist at the 650i loan and have shifted that cash flow to the MINI loan. With the MINI out of the way, from a cash liability standpoint, I can pretty easily swing the 650 and DMC as a tandem. Like you said if I open myself to private sellers I can probably save a good chunk. The DMC market is really rough right now, though. Have to see what spring brings.