Is it just me, or are wireless carriers boning customers on new phone prices?

[Sad, little man]

Back in the day, at least with AT&T, when you were up for an upgrade, you got a sweet subsidized deal on a new phone. I paid $400 for my last phone, which is normally I think somewhere around $800.

But now they have this AT&T next crap. They seem to tout it as a better option because you don't have to pay anything for the phone up front, but then they roll the full cost of the phone into your bill in installments! :mad:

And I know the argument is "Oh, well you were already paying the full price for the phone, the subsidy made your bill higher, and this is so much better because once you pay off your phone, your bill goes down."

But these mythical low phone bills don't seem to actually exist. I pay $73/mo for 3gb right now, and when I went online, getting a new phone resulted in $0 down, but the bill with the new plan was like $150/mo, eventually dropping down to like $90/mo.

WTF, I might as well just go to Best Buy and buy a phone off the shelf for full price so I can keep my marginally lower bill.

[Kchrpm]

Yep. They're intentionally making the numbers more confusing and telling you that you're getting a better deal. They've been doing it for a long time in various ways (offering unnecessary/duplicate services for a monthly fee, claiming that 2-years of phone bill did not include phone subsidy in price so that they were justified in not changing the contract ending fee after a year or more or the bill price after contract was up, moving costs between minutes, texts and data based on what was popular rather than what it cost them).

Unlikely to change until/unless people speak with their wallets, and most won't even just switch to a prepaid plan on the same network with cheaper prices. I finally made the leap a couple years ago, I now pay $30+ tax to T-Mobile for 5 GB of data, unlimited messages and barely any minutes (100). I'll buy my next phone from Best Buy unlocked with a 0% financing plan that goes for 12-24 months, depending on what promotion is available at the time, and not worry about it.

[21Kid]

I stopped buying into contracts years ago.

I paid $250 for my non-contract phone. And pay $30/month.

[TheBenior]

IIRC, T-Mobile (who I've had the last few years) cut prices when they went off the subsidized phone model.

The last two phones I got were an unlocked Nexus 5 ($350 for the 32GB after they'd cut prices) and an unlocked Nexus 6 ($200 on Brack Friday).

[Freude am Fahren]

My Note 4 that I bought almost two years ago was right before they ended the "affordable" phone thing. I'm looking at getting a new phone soon, but not sure what to do about it. I can

A) Switch to Google Fi and spend $450 or so on a 6P (or its predecessor), which I can spread out over 2 years to about $18.70/mo. My monthly bill (minus phone) would go down quite a bit from about $87/mo to probably about $65/mo, even less when you factor in unused data. But I would lose the excellent (in South Florida) AT&T network. Sprint and T-Mobile suck down here. If the next Nexus phone has removable storage, that phone price would go down. I need more than 32GB.
I have to wait for December (I think) for my AT&T contract to be up, so I'm sure I'd end up with the 6P's replacement.

B) Stick with AT&T and Sumsung and plop down big bucks for the S7 or Note 7. Obviously the more expensive option with no subsidy. I don't think I can switch to the "Next" Plan without losing unlimited data, so it's full price at once or bust I think. I would be able to save up to 5% on Amazon or Best Buy, and if I do it now, I can get free goodies for pre-ordering. Get to keep AT&T network and 18% work discount. I'll have to look into if that 18% counts towards the Next plan, which would be nice. Also, my Note 4 has me angry with Samsung, despite loving my Note 2, and the features of the 7's, mainly water resistance and expandable storage.
I can do this now if I want, or wait until my Note 4 is ded Dead but miss out on preorder bonuses. If I have to purchase upfront to keep unlimited, that also has the advantage of no contract, just month-to-month.

[thesameguy]

Something doesn't add up.

It used to be you got up to a $350 discount on a phone in exchange for a two year commitment. An $800 iPhone would have been $450 plus tax. In two years you could do it again. Service was based on X minutes, Y data, and Z text, usually from $20/mo to well over $100/mo. Tethering cost an extra $20 per line. Getting a subsidy on a smartphone - because it was a $350 subsidy - required paying for data and typically the floor was $40/mo.

Now, they are phasing out those subsidies and divorcing service from equipment. Service is based on unlimited voice, unlimited text, free tethering, X data, and Y devices. The floor is $40 just for service. A smartphone adds $25/mo. A dumbphone adds $10/mo, etc. Data costs either $10 or $15 (don't remember) per gb over if you exceed your commitment. There is no contract, cancel at any time.

Devices are financed at 0% over whatever term you choose, from one year to three (IIRC). An $800 iPhone costs $33/mo on a two year term.

These plans kinda fuck the sole user, but they almost universally save groups (families or businesses) money. They also give people the option to be able to replace their phone sooner, which is helpful for a lot of people - especially what with the new Apple hotness every year that everyone has to have or they will die. Or those people that can't not break their phone, I guess. These days unlimited voice is stupid, but unlimited text is nice for most. You also get free roaming in Mexico, which is great for Californians anyway. The new configuration ended up being a wash for L, my parents save about $50/mo. The three group plans I administrate which total about 110 devices saved a total of $4000/mo. with everyone on a two year finance plan.

A 3gb plan with a two year payment on a 128gb iPhone 6S+ (which I believe is the most expensive phone on AT&T) should be $40+$25+$38 (service+device+phone) or $103. There will be upfront sales tax on the phone - in California that's about $80. There may be an activation fee of $36 but you can typically force them to waive it. After two years it would be $65+tax.

I suspect you chose to pay off the phone in one year, which would be $40+$25+$76, or $141. This is not a good comparison, since your subsidy was a 2-year deal and you're comparing it to 1-year deal. Of course it's going to be more.

[Kchrpm]

Freude-
Cricket Wireless is on AT&T: https://www.cricketwireless.com/

You can get a prepaid phone, pick how much data you want to go with your unlimited talk and text, and stay on the AT&T network.

[21Kid]

Group plans(bulk purchasing) are always cheaper for pretty much any goods & services.

That's right, I got an 18% discount from my former employer too. That's why it didn't seem to be as expensive as I see advertised.
IMO, you should get 18% just for having to be on a contract. ;)

[thesameguy]

... but you aren't on a contract anymore. AT&T at least doesn't even offer them.

Your group discount is valid only on the service, not on the device financing. So you could get 18% off $40+$25 but the $38 is the $38 no matter what.

[21Kid]

I meant in general. I didn't think of the device financing, as I've never done that. That would make sense why they're doing it that way now.

[Jason]

I used to get a new free phone every two with VZW... then when I got an iPhone on AT&T I got a new iPhone every two years for $100 or $150, forget. But my bill was about $100/mo

Told AT&T to fuck off at the beginning of this year, and now I'm contract free with T-Mobile on a $30/mo plan. I'll buy a new unlocked phone when mine breaks.

[thesameguy]

OIC!

Definitely people got screwed here - and I am personally of them. But most people I'm aware of are saving money. I ended up saving money because I transferred my number to my parents' account and became part of their group plan. Because I use about zero data (almost always wifi), I'm saving money - about $20/mo. Just the two of them saved the aforemention $50, which then put towards two new phones. You could say it was a wash, but they didn't have to fork over $250/ea for those new phones. If they got the expected two years from them, $500/two years = $20/mo they're truly saving. Still a better deal than before. :)

[Freude am Fahren]

I'm still on contract until November or December, since I last got a new phone in 2014.

[thesameguy]

They will typically let you switch 2-4 months early, if you care. :)

[Freude am Fahren]

I can get a new phone anytime from AT&T, since there are no subsidies, but if I choose to leave AT&T, I think I'd have to wait.

[Alan P]

My initial contract with Virgin Mobile ran out about 4 months ago and I was happy enough with my Galaxy S4 after replacing the battery (What a difference!!) so I went from an inclusive 500Mb/1000 minutes/Unlimited texts (actually 3,000. I checked) for £37 a month down to the same deal, on a 'SIM only' for £8pm. My Galaxy S4 is getting rather long in the tooth so I am considering an S7 (non-Edge) but as my work is launching their own mobile service later this year I'm hoping to hold fire and pick up a sweet deal on a new S7. or maybe a Note 7 but I think that'll be too big for me.

[Freude am Fahren]

I just ordered a new battery (Anker) for my Note 4. Looking forward to those problems going away hopefully.

I went by AT&T to talk to them about it, they said it was likely a bad battery as I thought, but they didn't sell new ones (plus they would probably be like $50 from them). They were more than willing to take my phone and get me a refurb for a $99 deductible. Online shopping for an OEM batter turned up a lot of sketchiness, but then again, why would I want another of the same battery that sucks?

If the new battery is good, I'll likely hold on to this phone until the contract is up, and switch to google, so long as the new Nexus doesn't disappoint. I like the looks of the new Note, so Google better do well.

[Drachen596]

Still running a Note 2 myself. replaced the battery with a double size one from Batteries Plus.

Really want a new phone as this one is super dated but still works.

[drew]

I too have a Note II. Been looking at the S7 Edge (Samsung whore). But even with the "upgrade discount", it's still stupid.

As to the original question, carrier wars used to be service driven, then device driven (thus, why you can only get certain phones on certain networks, yet they all work on each others').

Now it's just about the $. I've had a Sprint "Everything" plan (unlimited) for 6+ years, at $130. Yet if I were a new customer, I could get the same thing for 1/2 that.

DirecTV does the same shit. Great deals for new customers, fuck the existing ones.

[Freude am Fahren]

The problem is serious for those of us that have only one device. Families and people who have multiple devices are much better off than they used to be.

I'm trying to figure out if AT&T's GoPhone might be a good choice. It looks like $55 for unlimited everything (data throttled at 6GB, but rolls over for one month). And you can cancel at anytime since it's pre-paid monthly. I feel like there must be a catch somewhere I'm missing. Sure, you have no option of a financed phone, but in the end that doesn't save you money. Just their closest normal mobile share plan is $75 for 5GB, with $15/GB overages.

Speaking of DirecTV, they are now part of AT&T, and you can get unlimited everything for $100. Even with their increases in grandfathered unlimited data prices, that's about $15 more than I pay before fees and discounts for my old school plan. I only have 450 talk and 1000 text, but I never get close to either. I have about 5000 rollover minutes, and my highest text month in the last two years was about 350.

[Kchrpm]

Sure, you have no option of a financed phone, but in the end that doesn't save you money.

That really is the catch. When I told people I paid $30/month for my plan they were all excited/jealous. When I told them I paid about $500 upfront for my phone, they were immediately turned off. People are just accustomed to the subsidized phone prices now, they would rather make the monthly payments than deal with that one big hit, even if it costs them money in the long run. That reflects a lot of American consumerism, though. Like I said, I'm planning on buying my next phone with one of Best Buy's 0% financing for a year or two promotions, nearly the same thing.

[Alan P]

Someone in a position similar to myself can't afford £500 as an upfront payment but I can afford £40 a month. Many people don't do the sums when presented with $40 a month over two years as, hell, it's just $40! Then you tell them that's $960 over two years and they're a little shocked, but it's still only $40 a month and they can manage that.

[thesameguy]

That's true, but do note all of these plans are interest-free. Your $800 phone is $800 whether you pay for it all at once or over 24 equal payments. It doesn't cost more over time. (In fact, technically you're making money since it's interest free.)

What went missing with American plans is the phone subsidy. We used to pay $400 (or whatever) and agree to a contract and they'd cover the difference. Now we don't have that contract, and now they charge us full price.

They also raised the floor a little. In the early days you could get a subsidized phone and a voice-only plan for say $25 and know you only use wifi on your phone. Then they mandated all subsidized phones have an associated data plan, making your minimum $40/mo. Now they have broken up service and device charges, and your floor is $65/mo.

You do get more for each price increase - from voice with data/text/tethering extra to voice/data with text/tethering extra to voice/text/data/tethering - but the minimum is still more than it used to be. You're also not subject to early service termination fees which isn't a bad deal.

The prepaid plans do lower your floor with essentially no penalty in anything assuming you can pay cash for your phone. There is no interest-free financing on prepaid phones. Like Kchrpm said - the lower monthly cost seems really attractive to people until they find that out. Then they're not so mad at interest-free financing. :D

[drew]

They've been doing that "only $xxx a month!" shit with cars for years. You never see what the actual sticker price is on the car itself, because nobody (apparently) gives a shit about that, just what it is a month.

I bought my Note II outright in 2013, with no upgrade discount (it hurt a bit). While I would really love a new/updated phone, I can't justify the upfront cost of one. Nor am I willing to do the "monthly" thing, because you'd end up paying $200 more for it in the end.

[thesameguy]

Except for that's not how it works at all.

I'm done repeating myself.

[drew]

Sorry, I was off-the-cuff. I believe Sprint's is a no-interest thing (I would certainly hope most/all are), but not all car "deals" are interest-free, that I've seen.

Probably moreso with the buy here/pay here places than licensed dealerships.

sorry if I irked anyone, I haven't had any coffee for three fucking weeks....

[21Kid]

The prepaid plans do lower your floor with essentially no penalty in anything assuming you can pay cash for your phone. There is no interest-free financing on prepaid phones. Like Kchrpm said - the lower monthly cost seems really attractive to people until they find that out. Then they're not so mad at interest-free financing. :DGoogle does.
Payment options
Storage - Pay in full - Pay over 24 months
32GB - $399 - $16.62/mo
64GB - $449 - $18.70/mo
128GB - $549 - $22.87/mo
And they refund your unused data. They just have Zero selection. You get a Nexus phone, 5 or 6. My wife got the 6P though and it's a great phone.

I love the rebate programs. I've been averaging $55/mo for me and my daughter on Republic. And my wife has been averaging $35 on Project Fi.
Plus, I love wifi calling. I never drop calls or have bad sound quality. And because of wifi, I can use it a lot of places you normally couldn't, like the gym in the basement of my office building. I don't have to rely on the cell providers signal strength. That was a big problem for us when we lived in Wisconsin.

[drew]

What the fuck is a gym?

[21Kid]

https://chimaeraspeaks.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/america-fitness-s.jpg

[thesameguy]

Yeah, I don't get it.

[drew]

:lol:

[21Kid]

I could have just left out the word gym... But, I thought people would wonder why I was in the basement of my office building. :finger: I can't win either way.

[Kchrpm]

Oh, we know what you do in the basement.

[thesameguy]

Yeah, I don't see a problem there. Everyone needs some alone time.

[drew]

Glory Holin' isn't a single player sport.

[21Kid]

:lol:




:finger:

[drew]

Speaking of:

AT&T is probably in "shit sideways" mode right now
1874

The red bits keep growing by the minute. Someone fucked up, badly.

[Freude am Fahren]

I'm right in one of those red blobs, and have had no issues today.

[Kchrpm]

Related: Apple offering an iPhone upgrade program, separate from carriers, that lets you get a new phone every year for $32/month. Presumably you trade in your old phone at that point. $424/year to always have the latest, regardless of what carrier.

https://syllabus.vox-cdn.com/uploads/photo/image/24275/apple-iphone-watch-20160907-5663.JPG

[Freude am Fahren]

Make sense. I can see this kinda backfiring on providers, as there no longer an incentive to buy the phones from them over buying an unlocked phone from Amazon or wherever. Surely they must make a lot of money on device sales, right?

By the way, does the Apple plan give you an unlocked phone, or is it still a carrier specific device?

[Kchrpm]

It's unlocked: http://www.apple.com/shop/iphone/iphone-upgrade-program

And the carriers will start (keep) pushing the Android phones.

[Tom Servo]

Notable that it looks like you have to start a new plan every time you upgrade, that it just starts at $32 a month but goes as high as $45.75 for the 256GB 7 Plus, that you're responsible for sales tax on the full purchase price and any shipping costs on your first payment, and that they run a credit check on you when you start the program and every time you upgrade.

[Jason]

The most expensive iPhone plan, plus my T-Mobile plan is still cheaper than my old AT&T subsidy ($200 for entry iphone) and cell plan. :up:

(Still not worth it for me, but still)

[21Kid]

If you can afford the large up-front fee cost of the phone.

[Kchrpm]

The $30+ per month includes the phone, so there's no other upfront cost (depending on your credit rating).

[Sad, little man]

So to update this, I actually went into the store and the guy figured it out for me. Currently, I pay about $73/mo on my ancient plan, and with one of their new plans, without factoring in a phone payment or anything, it would be like $70/mo. Eff AT&T. Why would I stay with them when they expect me to pay full price for a phone but my monthly bill is no cheaper? I would say that doing away with subsidized phone prices was a mistake, but most people probably aren't observant enough to notice since the cost of the phone is usually divided into so many payments.

[thesameguy]

Next time you go for a drive, keep your eyes out for the point. You have missed it somewhere along the lines.