Low, or lower-end audio. Or middle. But not high. [Archive]

George

January 23rd, 2017, 10:43 AM

You need to compare RMS to RMS or Max to Max to know the answer - "handles 20-150 watts" could be RMS or it could be max, and without knowing that, you don't the answer. IME, typically when a range is provided the spec is RMS, and RMS is typically cited in home audio gear (whereas max is often cited in car audio gear... grrrrr.) But, you really want to compare both specs to ensure if you dime out the amp you don't blow up the speaker. Of course, maybe you won't even turn it up all the way, but still....

Unless you want to spend a lot, check out partsexpress.com - they specialize in Totally Adequate Gear and you don't have to pay name brand, big box store markups.

I'm familiar with RMS and Max from messing with pro audio stuff in my younger days - bass amps & speakers, small PA systems, etc., but I don't know beans about home audio. I've bought a couple of those all-in-one bookshelf units over the years that were sort of like the '80s boom box evolved to have speakers that could be separated from the center unit and a remote control. No thinking required.

Thanks for the site suggestion. Something like this is probably what I'm looking for, but this one lists Nominal Power, too. More research is required, but I'm not going to over-think this purchase as I do with so many others.

https://www.parts-express.com/yamaha-ns-6490-8-3-way-acoustic-suspension-bookshelf-speaker-pair--312-606

thesameguy

January 23rd, 2017, 11:29 AM

Those are probably nice speakers. I've always found Yamaha speakers to have a good, warm sound. Specs are "Power handling: 70 watts RMS/140 watts max • Impedance: 8 ohms," so they are probably a very good match for the amp you mentioned.

Speakers is speakers is speakers - if you got dosed back in the day, you know all there is to know. Nothing has changed except the range of what's available... 1ohm impedances and whatnot. Nothing like that would apply to '90s tech though. ;)

Kchrpm

January 23rd, 2017, 11:36 AM

I suggest one of those Dayton Audio things, because I think my friend works for them. And based on nothing else.

thesameguy

January 23rd, 2017, 11:57 AM

I have some of their outdoor speakers in my... outdoors. They are a little lacking in bass, which surprises me based on the specs of everything, but I'm not mad at them. Especially not mad at what they cost for what they delivered.

Kchrpm

January 23rd, 2017, 12:02 PM

Ha it looks like Parts Express is right next door, 705 and 725 Pleasant Valley Dr. I think I knew that before but had since forgotten.

And they do have a retail store, hmm...

George

January 23rd, 2017, 05:29 PM

Those are probably nice speakers. I've always found Yamaha speakers to have a good, warm sound. Specs are "Power handling: 70 watts RMS/140 watts max • Impedance: 8 ohms," so they are probably a very good match for the amp you mentioned.

Ordered. They should be here this Friday, January 27.

If this deal doesn't go down as expected, I'm coming for you with a dull spoon, bro. :mad:

IME, a Yamaha anything is a good thing. I hope they haven't gone the way of so many nostalgic brand names that are now utter crap.

I'll be sure to post a low, lower-end, or middle (but not high-end) consumer review once received, installed, and house having been rocked with some vintage cassettes and vinyl.

Random

January 23rd, 2017, 09:01 PM

That seems like a pretty healthy low end spec for bookshelf speakers. I'll be interested to hear your review.

thesameguy

January 24th, 2017, 08:59 AM

Yeah, really enjoying that 8" woofer - should help do more with the 60w you have than the typical five inchers you find in a bookshelf speaker. :up:

thesameguy

January 25th, 2017, 10:57 AM

I ended up picking up the non-network Yamaha from Amazon. It was $99 in a refurb with $12, 10-day shipping, or $150 from Amazon delivered... well, already. My sense of instant gratification is worth $38. :lol:

I may end up buying a second one... or maybe the second will be the network version. But, what I'm really hoping to find next is a similar ~100w, 2-channel amp with two inputs (at least one analog) and some sort of remote interface the Harmony will talk to. Doesn't need to anything other than that...

thesameguy

January 25th, 2017, 07:08 PM

It seems the problem with wanting a dedicated two channel amp is everyone assumes if you want a dedicated amp, you also want the best. :down:

Random

January 25th, 2017, 07:29 PM

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/ele/5952266321.html

Take your chances?

Random

January 25th, 2017, 07:38 PM

This doesn't solve the connectivity issue, but what about a small Class D stereo amp? http://www.parts-express.com/pyle-pca3-mini-stereo-power-amplifier--310-2002

Random

January 25th, 2017, 07:49 PM

Looks likes Class D (or T-Amp) with Bluetooth streaming is a thing. Not having any luck with wi-fi control or connectivity so far.

thesameguy

January 25th, 2017, 08:03 PM

Possibly some confusion:

#1 = AM/FM + amp + smartphone control + Bluetooth: This is solved with the Yamaha R-S202 and a Logitech Harmony Smart Hub for $230 ($150+$80). It's about the same price as that networked N301 (or whatever) but the smartphone control is totally wireless with the Harmony. Got the Yamaha today, should have the Harmony in a couple.
#2 = amp + 1 analog input + 1 analog or digital input + IR remote: Not sure what to do here. That Sony you posted would do it, but I think if I'm going to get a conventionally sized amp I might as well just get another Yamaha. I hadn't though about one of those Class D amps - I like that. I just need to find one that has some sort of remote control so it can controlled with a Harmony remote (programmed codes or learned codes, whatever). Although, I wonder if you could just turn it on and off remotely (lots of ways to do that) with a preset gain and then use the line-out signal to control its actual volume? If so, maybe try one of the generic board amps (http://www.parts-express.com/sure-electronics-aa-ab32189-2x100w-tda7498-class-d-amplifier-board--320-303)? 36v PSU is kind of annoying, but hardly insurmountable. Edit: Oh, but those don't have source switching. Derp.

Random

January 25th, 2017, 08:19 PM

There were a couple with IR remotes that I saw.

Random

January 25th, 2017, 08:25 PM

Something like this? http://www.parts-express.com/smsl-q5-pro-stereo-amplifier-usb-optical-coaxial-dac-with-subwoofer-output-2x40w--230-210

Random

January 25th, 2017, 08:31 PM

Caveat: I have no idea if any of this stuff, you know, sounds good. :lol:

thesameguy

January 25th, 2017, 10:16 PM

Always the gotcha, eh? Nothing serious is happening here... so long as it doesn't sound bad it's probably fine.

This is interesting:

http://www.parts-express.com/lepai-lp-269fs-4x45w-mini-amplifier-with-remote-usb-mp3-media-card-fm--310-304

The speakers I am driving are 4-way tower speakers but are bi-amp-able. I was aiming for a 100wpc situation, but I wonder what happens if I convert the speakers to bi-amp and then power each leg with 45w. For $40 it's maybe worth the experiment!

With a 9v-14v input, even if it doesn't do what I want it could possibly find its way into the Falcon! I wonder what's inside - how hard it would be to remote mount the display?

thesameguy

January 25th, 2017, 10:49 PM

I think I have identified a significant gap in consumer electronics.

My patience is stretched.

Might just get a Sony STR-DH130 (https://www.amazon.com/Sony-STRDH130-Channel-Stereo-Receiver/dp/B006U1VH2S/ref=sr_1_11?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1485416257&sr=1-11&keywords=av+receiver), since this doesn't need Bluetooth. The price premium between it and more hobbyist solutions just isn't that great.

21Kid

January 26th, 2017, 07:22 AM

Tube amp. w/ bluetooth - $40 (Modesto) (http://modesto.craigslist.org/ele/5930669471.html)

;)

https://images.craigslist.org/00909_lGz8NWvk3EF_600x450.jpg

thesameguy

January 26th, 2017, 12:32 PM

Tube amp. w/ bluetooth - $40 (Modesto) (http://modesto.craigslist.org/ele/5930669471.html)

;)

https://images.craigslist.org/00909_lGz8NWvk3EF_600x450.jpg

Monoprice has similar - but I think nicer looking - tube amps. I really want one, but I don't have an actual use for it. I don't have any speakers where sub-50w is going to be worth a damn. My house is littered with big speakers. You know, the kind that blow women's clothes off.

21Kid

January 26th, 2017, 12:49 PM

:lol: The best kind!

thesameguy

January 26th, 2017, 09:12 PM

Okay, so where this was going:

I have an Echo Dot in the bedroom, which I really love for the half-asleep time & weather check. I didn't want a whole Echo up there just due to size... which is of course insane given there is a 48" TV, a pair of Bohlender tower speakers, and an Xbox One, but whatever, it's my life. Anywho, the downside of the Dot is the tiny speaker blows for streaming music. My plan was given the speakers were already there to just run audio from Dot through the big speakers and have a nice result.

I guess fortunately I discovered there is what I would term a major design flaw with Dot. I mean, like huge. If you plug something into the audio jack, it disables the built-in speaker. That's hardware, not software. If you want to plug Dot into a stereo, great, but from then on she can only talk to you through the stereo. In fact, even if that cable goes nowhere, it's mere presence disables the onboard speaker. Really happy I decided to test that tonight!

I grabbed the Bluetooth-equipped Yamaha R-S202 I just got and set it up. I paired the receiver to Dot and that works correctly - if she connects to it, sound goes through it; otherwise, sound comes out the built-in speaker. Even better, the Yamaha has a dedicated input for Bluetooth, and if it's not selected the BT radio is off. That is much better than the Denon downstairs, which as soon as it gets a BT or AirPlay pairing starts doing that immediately. Really a problem at parties when 30 people interrupt the music with errant button presses in the youtube app. :|

Anyway, Yamaha has no such problems. I set up a Harmony activity called "yourself" which turns on the Yamaha and set the input to Bluetooth. Now, I just say "Alexa turn yourself on" and she starts playing through the Yamaha. Dumb to connect two stationary devices inches away with Bluetooth instead of a cable, but it seems to work...

... Except I am getting major audio interruptions. I don't know whether it's Dot, iHeartRadio, the internet connection, or BT yet. That is a challenge for this weekend.

Now, to get a second Yamaha R-S202 to replace the one I just usurped.

George

January 30th, 2017, 11:08 AM

That seems like a pretty healthy low end spec for bookshelf speakers. I'll be interested to hear your review.

The speakers arrived Friday as promised. They're larger (deeper, mostly, which is a good thing) than I expected and look good. Sealed cabinets. No ports. Just two inputs for bare speaker wire, or banana plugs, maybe, if those are even still a thing.

I connected all the stereo gear for the first time on Saturday and, amid cries of "Dad, turn it down!" from my children and wife, enjoyed them all weekend with cassettes and CDs. The turntable may need a little TLC before it works properly. It's programmable and has an automatic tonearm that moves back and forth on a belt, rather than being one you can just lift and drop by hand. I'll spare my usual speech here about needless complexity here, but at great personal effort.

But, I definitely have no regrets about the speakers. They're nice, and especially for how little they cost.

Here's a live action picture of me listening to some old (but still good-sounding) cassettes in the basement this weekend:

http://www.totalmedia.com/images/Maxell-Worth_It.jpg

21Kid

January 30th, 2017, 12:27 PM

I was going to make a "Dad, what's a cassette?" joke.

But, my kids won't even know what CD's are. We haven't owned any physical music for years.
(Actually, I think we have a box of CD's in storage.)

thesameguy

January 30th, 2017, 01:47 PM

I remember when we got our first automated record player. You could program a playlist! It was almost more fun watching the needle pick up and move to the next track as it was listening to the music. The inter-track delays were the worst though!!

FaultyMario

February 11th, 2017, 08:14 AM

I have an old Onkyo tx-sv3 series receiver and recently discovered a speaker wire had come off one of the front speakers. Unfortunately i didn't discover it soon enough and the main light switch started blinking and the receiver switched off, so i used the kill switch under the standby button. I tried to turn it back on and it clicks back on with the switch but the button does nothing and although the light comes on the fluorescent display is dead.

I'm thinking it's a fuse. But before i open it up I'd like to
To know what to look for and where. Any experience with Onkyos, Tyler?

21Kid

April 24th, 2017, 08:01 AM

So... I think I need to upgrade. I've had this lower end Infinity pod system for 10-ish years.
http://www.highfidelityreview.com/images/INFINITY_20TSS-450PLT_20HOME_20THEATER_20SPEAKER_20SYSTEM.JPG
Then I got a 7.1 receiver 3-4 years ago(geez, 6 actually) and added these two bookself speakers as the new fronts, and I was using all 4 of the pod speakers as surrounds.
http://cdn.head-fi.org/b/b2/300x300px-LS-b2647afc_B004649W1Y-31rOpn1ajXL.jpeg

I was thinking of upgrading the center channel speaker, because it sounds weak compared to the others.
Thoughts? Should I not further my Frankenstein system? It looks like they don't make the same model as the newer fronts I got anymore. I was hoping to match those.

I thought having similar speakers helped the sound stay more uniform. But, does it really matter? Should I just upgrade all of them. I'd probably want to get a new DTS:X/Atmos receiver, if I go that far.

Kchrpm

April 24th, 2017, 08:11 AM

It matters if you're really picky, they'll have similar sound profiles, but for most people it won't matter much. Nothing wrong with Frankensteining a low- to mid-fi audio setup, I've been doing it for like 20 years. Replace one piece at a time as budget/technology warrants and move the older, working stuff to a new system in a new room. I have a receiver in my bedroom that's probably 20 years old playing through speakers that are 10-15 years old with a Chromecast Audio as the only source.

thesameguy

April 24th, 2017, 08:47 AM

What he said.

Unless you're a highly focused audiophile, buying speakers a little bit at a time is probably preferable to all at once.

A lot will depend on what you're listening to, and what adjustments exist on your receiver. Buying for TV & movies is different than buying for music - to that end sometimes you are better served with different LR, center, and surround speakers... each with its own task. Because the center channel is probably the most important for TV & movies (it's where a significant portion of audio comes from - especially dialog) the center channel is probably where you want to blow your wad. OTOH, for music, front left and right should get your dollars.

21Kid

April 24th, 2017, 09:05 AM

Kchrpm

April 24th, 2017, 10:12 AM

$300 on a single speaker? Man, you're already living the California life...

thesameguy

April 24th, 2017, 11:14 AM

:lol: I should have known a little bit at a time was better. What was I thinking?!? WWDSD? (What Would DockSide Do?)

I mostly watch movies/play video games. So I'm mostly interested in home theater speakers. I was mainly looking at this low-profile Polk (https://smile.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Signature-American-Theater/dp/B01MTCQ0UT/ref=sr_1_42?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1493053252&sr=1-42&keywords=center+channel+speaker) behemoth, which is what got me thinking... Brown Walnut + black + silver is not the most aesthetically appealing set up.

sidenote: I didn't realize Cerwin Vega (https://smile.amazon.com/Cerwin-Vega-SL45C-Quad-Speaker/dp/B00J8SN3D6/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1493052800&sr=1-8&keywords=center+channel+speaker) made home theater speakers. I only remember the big 15" woofers (https://smile.amazon.com/Cerwin-Vega-SL45C-Quad-Speaker/dp/B00JPDMXE4/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1493052800&sr=1-8&keywords=center%2Bchannel%2Bspeaker&th=1) my friends had in high school. :lol:

I don't know if 2017 CV is the same company that blew women's panties off in the '90s or not. I feel like they may just be a brand name these days, but I honestly don't know.

I don't like those low-profile speakers - they try to make up for a lack of surface area by throwing more cones at you, but you'll never get the same performance from six 3" cones as would from three 6" cones (to draw a contrived comparison). At least, not at the same power level. Bigger speakers are more efficient - they make more sound with less power. If space is the concern by all means carry on, but if you have space I'd look at physically larger speakers.

$300 is an expensive speaker, but I do really feel the center channel is important and you will benefit from the spend here. I have the previous version of this:

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107CSIA6B/Polk-Audio-CSi-A6-Black.html

and have been very happy with it. There is a less expensive 4" driver version of it which may be a good fit if you're space-conscious:

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107CSIA4B/Polk-Audio-CSi-A4-Black.html

It might be a good match for those Infinity bookshelf speakers - they look like 4" drivers as well.

Another option - in the middle - might be this:

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107CS10B/Polk-Audio-TSi-CS10-Black.html

It's quite inexpensive, sounds solid (got one for my parents), and wouldn't be a bad match for what you've got, either.

Kchrpm

April 24th, 2017, 12:23 PM

I don't actually know what my center speaker is. I probably bought it 5-10 years ago.

But my tower speakers are bangin' :D

George

June 17th, 2017, 05:20 AM

I bought a set of these speakers yesterday at my local MicroCenter store for $21.99 plus tax. They're supposedly "refurbished", but they look brand new to me, except they come in a plain box with no paperwork. They don't look like cleaned-up versions of old, dusty speakers that office cleanup ghouls collected on carts while preparing outsourced employees' cubicles for a new group of transient consultants. The "new" versions were right next to these on the shelf and priced at $39.99.

I'm going back this weekend to get at least one more set for my garage to use with my mp3 player/FM receiver. Now that is low-end. :D

Great? Probably not. But awesome for the price? You bet. I'm using these as regular PC speakers and they sound worlds better than the set of old, beige Gateway 2000 speakers with no subwoofer that they're replacing. Truth be told, I bought this first set for the garage, but when I plugged them into the PC and did an A/B test with my older speakers, I knew I'd be going back for another set of these.

If I had to complain, I might mention the subwoofer has no volume control. There's an overall volume control on a little wired remote control, but you can't change the subwoofer/tweeter mix without using your computer's audio control panel (which was necessary on my Win10 Dell to get these EQ'd to my liking). But that's not really a complaint. These are nice and sound good for what they cost.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/411462/Z313_21_Speaker_System_-_Black_(Recertified)

http://c773974.r74.cf2.rackcdn.com/0411462_439091.jpg

thesameguy

June 17th, 2017, 08:29 AM

Logitech has been making some kick-ass computer speakers for a while now - glad you're happy with 'em!

George

July 6th, 2017, 08:19 AM

My wife and kids are out of town right now. That's important because I can move stuff around and experiment with stuff without anyone bothering me or the stuff.

I have never liked the thin and tinny sound from our non-smart HDTV. We plan to make some changes in the room where it is later this summer. Then it will finally be time to get a proper sound system that can accept the new digital audio output from the HDTV.

I also have my parents' 1990s home stereo with surround sound and whatever else was cool back then, but of course it won't connect to the HDTV, even as a temporary thing. Damned planned obsolescence...

We have a Roku 3 box plugged into the HDTV to get Netflix, YouTube, etc. Last night, I picked up the Roku remote for the first time in ages. It was nice to sit down and watch something I wanted to watch without anyone yelling for Spongebob or whatever. And that Roku remote is really cool. I had forgotten it even has a headphone jack on the remote where you can plug in headphones...

...or run a stereo cable from the remote's headphone jack to the AUX INs of the '90s receiver! :rawk:

This is gonna be fun. Temporary, sure. And I know it will only work with Roku, not for cable TV or local broadcast TV. But, still, fun. :D

Signed,

Easily Impressed

21Kid

July 6th, 2017, 08:34 AM

You could have done it at night, when they were in bed. :twisted:

When we replace our broken HDTV, I'd like to get a sound bar (https://www.vizio.com/sb3851c0.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwv_fKBRCG8a3ao-OQuZ8BEiQAvpHp6AmkPYPVTHIXvM4RA5wo0d5jhiBrRKErlL3a 1w7WbGQaAt_Z8P8HAQ)for it. I don't like the built-it speakers either, especially with today's ultrathin tvs. But, it's not the movie screen and doesn't need the full surround setup. I'm a little concerned about the wireless surround though. It seems like there'd be a delay.

I never uploaded a pic of my new center channel speaker. Quite a difference. :lol:
2437

thesameguy

July 6th, 2017, 09:29 AM

I also have my parents' 1990s home stereo with surround sound and whatever else was cool back then, but of course it won't connect to the HDTV, even as a temporary thing. Damned planned obsolescence...

Why not? Most TVs have RCA audio out - any receiver back to the '80s should have RCA in.

George

July 6th, 2017, 09:38 AM

Low-end HDTV, maybe? It has digital sound output only, though. I've checked. I can plug a VCR into the TV with analog inputs, but there are no analog outputs - only HDMI and the little square hole for digital, if I remember correctly.

I'm going to be painting some interior walls this weekend and it will be nice to stream my favorite bands from YouTube concert videos or the live music collection at https://archive.org/details/etree via Roku. I never do that with just the TV only because the sound sucks. Our main floor is currently a "sound desert" in that regard, but that will change for the better later this year.

CudaMan

July 6th, 2017, 10:07 AM

Surely somebody makes a TOSlink to RCA adapter.

thesameguy

July 6th, 2017, 11:54 AM

Totally. They're like $15!

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Optical-Toslink-Coaxial-Converter/dp/B002HWZN4W

George

July 6th, 2017, 01:22 PM

Thanks. I swear I looked for those when I first got the TV and was scared off by multi-hundred-dollar preamps that, by themselves, cost far more than a typical soundbar + subwoofer. I'm pretty sure you guys told me I was SOL as well, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Of course, my parents hadn't yet moved and given me their old gear, so maybe I wasn't as motivated to find a way to put the two together. I've been using various adapters like that one forever while messing with electric guitars and home recording, but it was mostly one size to another size, or splitting a mono signal into stereo or dual-mono or vice-versa.

I'll have to check out my options here. If I do end up somehow rigging the 20th century audio with the 21st century video, I'll also need to figure out why a surround sound home theatre receiver doesn't have a subwoofer output.

thesameguy

July 6th, 2017, 02:41 PM

How old is the receiver? Mainstream X.1/X.2 receivers are probably only 15 years old or so. I seem to recall it was around Y2K I bought my first 5.1 receiver - it was a $200 (IIRC) JVC unit, which was a refurb and extraordinarily cheap for 5.1. What I had before that was a 3-channel (L/C/R) Kenwood from the mid '90s.

It's not the end of the world, most decent active subwoofers will actually have a built in crossover, so you can wire RCA to them and they will split channels out. That's not a great solution since they won't do audio decoding, but if the receiver doesn't have an LFE output it's not doing any of that decoding anyway. At some point, you're better off just buying a modern receiver or HTIB solution.

George

July 6th, 2017, 03:07 PM

At some point, you're better off just buying a modern receiver or HTIB solution.

Agreed. That has been our plan all along. All this from today is just me thinking about hooking stuff up that I already own, with a decidedly low-end attitude.

Unrelated to my situation, here's a link I found elsewhere that some may find interesting. I make no claims or endorsements, just passing it along: http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/avreceiver/home-audio/receivers-amps/home-theater-receivers/1.html

thesameguy

July 6th, 2017, 04:44 PM

I've bought from them. Would recommend them.

George

March 6th, 2018, 08:37 AM

I guess I need to get myself to a store that sells TVs and ask this question, or maybe someone here could suggest a forum where such things are discussed?

I've seen HDTVs mounted flush or nearly flush to walls for a long time now but never had a place for one at home, until now. All the inputs on the back of our TV come out of the back of the TV, toward the wall. From testing the flexibility of the cables, it looks like our TV will need to stand at least three inches away from the wall to allow the cables to come up from below and bend 90 degrees to plug in.

That would look terrible and can't be right. What am I missing here? Do I need to find some 90-degree adapters to get the TV closer to the wall? Or do people cut holes in the drywall behind the TV and run the cables that way?

Signed,

Captain Clueless

TheBenior

March 6th, 2018, 01:45 PM

All the cables that come out of my circa 2009 Panasonic plasma come out parallel to the wall, so it could be as close to the wall as the mount/thickness of the TV allow.

George

March 6th, 2018, 03:05 PM

A neighbor told my wife the same thing - the cables come out of the bottom of her TV. Hmm. We have two HDTVs and all the jacks are on the back of both, and both are newer than 2009. I'd guess one is maybe four years old and the other is three, give or take a year, maybe. The newer one, a Sony, is a smart TV that has wifi, and that was a new feature when that TV was new - whatever year that was.

I did a little googling about this and found some instructions on how to mount a TV on a wall, but the sites I've found with just a quick search talked more about how to find studs and get everything level (I can do those things) but glossed over the specifics of cable routing. "Put the cables inside a plastic channel and paint it to match the wall" is about as technical as the sites I've seen so far have gotten.

I'll have to drop by a Best Buy (shudder) or similar store and ask for advice. Thanks for your comment, TB.

Tom Servo

March 6th, 2018, 09:10 PM

At least for my TV, it's got a breakout box that plugs in parallel to the wall - the TV extends slightly in the back and has a socket for the breakout box on the side of that extension. Then HDMI cables go into that. Our previous one had most of the ports on the back that would point towards the wall, but one port was like this one, where it came in from the side. That said, both were a little bit newer than that, the previous one I think was about 2011, the newest one is 2017.

neanderthal

March 8th, 2018, 08:45 AM

If you buy a wall mount that will give you a few inches to play with.

George

November 5th, 2018, 02:52 PM

I had a pleasant surprise in the low-end audio (and video) department this weekend.

The lack of analog audio outputs has been my main beef with the new HDTVs since we got one (now two) that will not connect to a stereo system. Sure, I can buy a new receiver or a soundbar and subwoofer, and probably will someday, but I want instant gratification, and at little or no cost. :D

I recently scored a free 24" monitor with an HDMI input and noticed the analog output when I got it home. :eek:

Suddenly we have a small low-end audio/video setup in the basement that lets us use our Roku3 box, Xbox 360, and my son's Nintendo Switch and hear it through an older stereo that we hadn't been using at all. It sounds infinitely better than the tinny-sounding built-in speakers in TVs these days.

The next time one of my son's friends comes over with his Switch and wants to play Fortnite, he will have his own monitor and speakers to use with my son's Switch docking station, while my son plays on PC. That is pretty cool. And, if I want to watch some Netflix, stream some music, break out some cassette tapes, or chase Cam's ghost in Trials HD while I'm puttering around in the basement on weekends, I can do that too.

Sure, it's a small "TV", but the price was right. :up:

FaultyMario

November 6th, 2018, 05:46 AM

Buy a Toslink to RCA adapter, they're like 5 bucks.

Granted, some audio sources [IME it's mostly additional speech tracks] are encrypted, but not all of them.

George

November 6th, 2018, 08:35 AM

Wow, I didn't know they had gotten that inexpensive. The last time I looked for them at the MicroCenter, I was told they didn't carry them, which seemed odd to me. They tend to have anything and everything to hook one electronic thing into some other thing.

I might grab one of those for more basement experimentation, but I'll probably wait and do it right for our primary setup, rather than trying to mix old and new and wondering why things don't sound right.

All this has me thinking again about wall-mounting the TV in our family room. How do you guys deal with multiple HDMI inputs with a TV on a wall?

Right now our HDTV sits on a deep shelf and it's so light I can just pull one side out with one hand and and switch cables with my other hand. All the wires are neatly hidden behind the TV this way, no matter what is connected at the time.

Do I need an HDMI splitter so I can run just one HDMI wire up to a wall-mounted TV, and then switch devices at the box somewhere out of sight? We have shelves on both sides of the wall where the TV would go, so I can conceal the wires except for the one(s) that will actually connect to the TV.

From a quick search, I'm thinking I need something like this:

https://des.gbtcdn.com/uploads/2015/201507/heditor/201507201401024915.jpg

FaultyMario

January 15th, 2021, 08:16 AM

What's a good software to convert FLAC to ALAC in Windows? I've heard of AuI ConverteR 48x44 (https://samplerateconverter.com/) do you peeps have any other recommendations?

Yw-slayer

January 15th, 2021, 11:55 PM

Audacity?

Yw-slayer

January 15th, 2021, 11:58 PM

Do I need an HDMI splitter so I can run just one HDMI wire up to a wall-mounted TV, and then switch devices at the box somewhere out of sight? We have shelves on both sides of the wall where the TV would go, so I can conceal the wires except for the one(s) that will actually connect to the TV.

From a quick search, I'm thinking I need something like this:

https://des.gbtcdn.com/uploads/2015/201507/heditor/201507201401024915.jpg

It depends what you want to do, but yes, you can use this.

You can probably buy things like this locally or off Amazon. However, and entirely FYI, if you're buying stuff like this off Aliexpress, UGreen and Baseus are probably some of the better known/quality brands on it. The stuff by Vention also looks OK although I've never tried it. Generally if you go for something which has a few hundred 4-5 star reviews it shouldn't be an issue. And indeed with some brands, if you buy stuff of Amazon it's actually from the same seller but using a different marketplace.

For our plasma, the inputs all go into a Denon HEOS soundbar. As we have more than 4 devices, I do have an HDMI switch (I think by UGreen) which flips between 2 inputs - one has the Fire TV Stick 4K and the 3m+ long HDMI cable that is hooked up to my gaming PC.

Tom Servo

January 16th, 2021, 09:40 AM

I have had incredibly bad luck with HDMI switches like that. They all advertised they could do 4k HDR and most could only do one or the other and quite a few couldn't do either. They also all did that "automatic switch on signal" thing rather than just letting me pick which port was in use, so my Chromecast would often just take over when I was watching something else.

I ended up buying a Denon Receiver for a couple hundred bucks because it was the only way I was able to get a reliable HDMI switch. It's literally not hooked up to any speakers, it's just a massive, overly expensive HDMI switch to achieve the same goal George has - one HDMI line running in the wall up to the TV, then a switch hidden in the entertainment center off to the side.

Yw-slayer

January 17th, 2021, 05:14 AM

The dual UGreen dual switch I have works perfectly. It does detect inputs but it has a button which allows me to switch, and 2 LEDs that light up depending on which input has been selected.

If you have a space, then yeah, a used receiver can also work.

Tom Servo

January 17th, 2021, 10:14 AM

Once you switch with the button, does it then just stay there even if it detects a new input? What I was getting was both my Chromecast and my TiVo sending signals to it causing it to switch modes randomly. I could always switch it back manually, but then it'd just do it again a few minutes later.

I wouldn't mind getting a decent smaller switch if it would do what I want. As it is, I'm already out of ports on the Denon so I was particularly thrilled that the Nvidia Shield I just got basically works as a game streamer, Roku, and Chromecast in one unit. Actually freed up a port.

Kchrpm

January 17th, 2021, 02:54 PM

Yw-slayer

January 17th, 2021, 06:32 PM

Yw-slayer

January 29th, 2021, 05:01 AM

Can confirm that no problem staying on either the Kindle 4K, or the HDMI out from my PC.

George

February 11th, 2021, 09:31 AM

I'm quite happy that my new TV can output surround sound back to my receiver, so I can plug things into the TV or the receiver and get proper audio either way. Since my receiver is a 10+ year old model, it's what I have to do to get 4K+HDR+surround sound currently.

My receiver was pretty good back in the 1990s, but not compatible with modern TVs. Our relatively new HDTV has digital audio out but the receiver only has analog inputs. When we bought a new HDTV for our "someday" home theater in the basement, I ran an analog cable from the TV's headphone jack to the receiver's analog inputs to power left and right home stereo speakers (which I think I bought from advice in this very thread a long time ago). It sounded better than the TV's volume alone.

The funny thing is I had it set up that way for a while until my son said it sounded like "trash" and hooked up an inexpensive set of PC speakers with a subwoofer that wasn't being used at the time. He proclaimed it far superior to how I had it set up, and I had to agree with him.

Well, last night I came home from work and, at his suggestion, we changed it back to how it had been, which I think he had forgotten. Now he's happy all over again, and for free. :D

That said, I think we're FINALLY ready to buy a surround sound system for the basement. The room was wired for rear speakers by a previous owner (wires run neatly behind drywall to the back corners of the ceiling) and I'm assuming that wired speakers are still better than wireless speakers and always will be for simplicity and better sound. I'll just need to get speakers small enough to mount up there and find some kind of brackets to mount in the walls to hold them up, I guess.

I had written more with a couple questions but I'll try to do my own homework about HTIBs. Reading back through this thread, I realized I've been hemming and hawing about this stuff for years without making any decisions. We've only lived in this house for fifteen years. It's time to make it happen before we're too old to hobble down the stairs to enjoy a show.

CudaMan

February 11th, 2021, 10:16 AM

What's your budget for speakers + receiver, George, and do you want a subwoofer?

George

February 11th, 2021, 11:08 AM

Subwoofer, yes, unquestionably. Things like Marvel movies and other modern films the kids like will be standard fare, I hope, so it needs to go *BOOM*.

Also need wired rear speakers that can attach to a wall or ceiling, but that seems fairly standard from what I'm seeing. Don't need wireless anything - I have enough room to run wires wherever they need to go and have room for large speakers - except the rear ones. I don't mean to be obsessed with those but I've been eyeing the speaker wires sticking out of holes in the drywall in the upper corners since we bought the house and I want to use them unless there's good reason not to.

I've been using the Yamaha system below as something I could always go with if I can't find anything "better"...and I realize "better" can be interpreted in different ways. It's affordable and available locally now, but maybe it's too inexpensive.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/yamaha-725w-4k-ultra-hd-5-1-channel-home-theater-system-with-bluetooth-black/6352589.p?skuId=6352589.

I'm thinking maybe a nicer version of what I linked above, but they don't seem to be all that common, or maybe I haven't stumbled upon the right websites yet. While I don't refuse to do business with Amazon, they aren't my first choice and I haven't been looking there. I've looked at Crutchfield, Newegg, accessories4less.com, Parts Express, Monoprice, and maybe a few others from Google whose names I don't remember.

With the demise of retail stores in the USA in recent years, I only know of one place to go browse in person and that's Best Buy. I can spend what I need to spend but I'm not going hire a company to come out and custom-build something, if that answers the question about budget. While I don't want the cheapest thing available (been there and done that too many times), I also believe in the law of diminishing returns and hope to hit the sweet spot, wherever that is.

And I will consider separate components, if that's a better way to go. Don't know if brand matters, but the TV in the basement is a Sony that's only about two years old. I've always liked Sony stuff but am open to any reputable brand(s).

Kchrpm

February 11th, 2021, 12:58 PM

In general, I always say to be careful when buying a receiver that comes with speakers, make sure that they don't use proprietary connectors. That will make upgrades and replacements difficult in the future. That model does seem to have the standard connections, though:

https://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/products/6352/6352589_bd.jpg

I'm also a Sony fan(boy), and this is what I'd likely get:

Receiver, $280: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-725w-5-2-ch-hi-res-4k-ultra-hd-a-v-home-theater-receiver-black/6187502.p?skuId=6187502

2x Bookshelf Speaker Pairs, 2x$150: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-core-series-5-3-way-bookshelf-speakers-pair-black/5721014.p?skuId=5721014

Center Speaker, $150: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-core-series-4-2-way-center-channel-speaker-black/5720006.p?skuId=5720006

George

February 11th, 2021, 02:04 PM

Thanks, Keith! So you guys don't think a $280 receiver is too cheesy to bother with? I'm pleasantly surprised, if so. And forget about this being the low, or lower-end audio thread for a minute...I could even go to middle for this application.

But not high. :cool:

For what it's worth, I do have a pair of like-new L/R speakers, and I'm amazed the link I posted from Post #16 (http://gtxforums.net/showthread.php?1685-Low-or-lower-end-audio-Or-middle-But-not-high&p=93661&viewfull=1#post93661) of this thread in 2017 still works: https://www.parts-express.com/Yamaha-NS-6490-3-Way-Acoustic-Suspension-Bookshelf-Speaker-P-312-606

Kchrpm

February 11th, 2021, 02:36 PM

The receiver I have is the equivalent of the one I linked from ~10 years ago. As long as it supports your basic needs (number and types of inputs and outputs), it's up to you to decide what features you want/need and how loud/nuanced you want your sound to be. If you don't have a larger than normal room, and aren't trying to passionately dissect music, IMO there's not a need to overpay.

George

February 11th, 2021, 03:02 PM

^ Thanks again. I agree. It's just a regular-sized room. I don't need to be like the guy in the Memorex commercial with my hair blowing back and holding on to the arms of the chair so as not to be blown out of it. :lol:

I'm going to tell you guys a story about stereo receivers that's completely unrelated to any discussion in this thread so far.

It's the least important thing ever, so feel free to scroll on by as you would all my other posts.

A few years ago at work, UPS or FedEx or someone like that delivered two boxes to us that weren't for us. They weren't even addressed to us, if I remember correctly, but to some other company. I shared a large office with two others at that time, and I remember the lady that was stuck in there with us two guys calling and calling and calling the shipper and/or the carrier and/or the recipient many times. She tried and tried to tell anyone who would listen that they were not ours and someone needed to come pick them up.

We could see without opening the boxes that they were two Onkyo home stereo/theater receivers with ALL the bells and whistles. I remember googling the model number from the boxes and seeing they cost about $1000 each. :eek:

And she's calling all these companies and I'm over there thinking to myself: "Shhh! Be quiet! You are making too big a deal out of this! Nobody cares. Replacements have been shipped and those two have been written off by some big company and that's the end of it."

Yes, I wanted one for our basement.

Eventually someone on the phone told her to put the boxes in the mail room and they would be picked up. She did. They sat there for months. Maybe a year or more. It was a very long time, for sure. I'd go pick up the mail once in a while and see them there in a corner. I kept thinking about carrying one down to my car late one afternoon or early evening. Or maybe dropping by on a Saturday to grab one. I even thought about bringing a large suitcase or a blanket so no one could see what I was carrying if spotted in the hallways. I really did. I figured no one would ever care or know and if they did, there was no way of knowing where one went.

Then, we had some personnel turnover and the two people I shared that office with left the company. At this point, I'm thinking nobody else knows about these! Someone might have heard about them back then, but everyone who was directly involved is gone! The receivers were still there in the mail room, and the boxes dustier than ever. Hell, I couldn't believe no one else had taken them - like someone else in the building who shared our common mail room.

Now, I've always said, and even sometimes out loud to co-workers in a light-hearted manner, that I might get (and have been) fired for poor job performance, but I will never be fired for lying or stealing or whatever other stupid stuff people do to get the axe and then not have good references from their former employer. I haven't been a good of a human being every day of my life, but I am not a thief.

I kept thinking I couldn't enjoy a receiver that I had taken without permission. Again, I'm not Joe Morality, but I just couldn't steal something and then see it in my house and use it and not be reminded of how I had gotten it. Maybe - maybe - when I was a teenager or something, but not now.

Well, one day I told someone above me in my chain of command about them because I couldn't stand it any longer. Any day now, someone would take one or both and I'd miss out on "mine". I gave the whole backstory, just as I've done here. That person agreed that we should bring them back into our suite from the mail room and put them in that person's office until "we" could figure out what to do with them.

I was certain, at this point, that the person would take one home and tell me to take the other and then my conscience would be clear. I'd get a free thousand-dollar receiver and no lying or stealing would be involved! By then, it was obviously unclaimed property and I might as well enjoy one. Maybe I've seen too many mob movies, but I remember thinking about how you have to be an "earner" in the mob to rise in the ranks. Make a good score? You give the boss his cut, right? And once in a while, something good trickles down to the faithful servants who have performed well.

Well, one day I noticed both boxes were gone from that person's office and I never heard another word about it. I didn't ask and I haven't even thought about this in quite some time, but all this thinking about receivers today while being at work in the same office where those two were delivered by mistake made this story come back to me.

Well, I tried. And I have no guilt for having handled it the way I did, and I learned something about someone else along the way.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled forum thread, already in progress...

CudaMan

February 11th, 2021, 04:02 PM

Those are pretty clear goals. So, off the bat there's nothing wrong with Home Theater In a Box (HTIB) setups, other than they generally aren't very good in the sound quality department. Especially if the speakers are small like that. The subwoofer takes care of the real low frequencies but with small satellites there will always be a strangeness to the upper bass or lower midrange. Either there will be a gap in the frequency, or a strange overlap where either the sub tries to play up too high and/or the satellites try to play down too low. It's too much compromise if you can afford to spend a bit more. Another grand in that budget with well chosen components can yield monumental improvement.

I haven't heard of Sony's audio offerings being anything special in the home audio world. In that BestBuy-type space I'd tend toward Polk speakers and Denon or Yamaha receivers, based on my experience (no direct experience with Sony since the 90s, to be fair).

If you think you might have the receiver a while, it may pay to move up a bit to a 7.2-channel or Atmos receiver for an easier upgrade path down the line. I hear good things about Atmos, never tried it myself.

For speakers, I've dabbled (as much as I can on fish sticks budget) in sound quality explorations some over the years. I have a strong preference toward excellent sound. Even did a speaker shootout a couple years ago in my living room, with 3 or 4 pairs of speakers that had free/cheap trial periods. All kinds of other stuff too like a dedicated DAC, a jitter-reducer for the Chromecast Audio streamer, a Parasound integrated amplifier, etc. My home theater hasn't changed in 17 years, though, other than the TV. I've been super happy with my speaker/receiver combination (there is synergy in audio - some components may not work well together, and sometimes you find a combination that is amazing). I would like larger rear surrounds but like you, prefer to keep them small. The only other thing is the center channel could be a little better. Voices sound slightly off to me when in 5.1 compared to 2.1 (where voice audio is done in stereo like the old days). So anyway, the speakers I bought in 2004 were by Fluance, a Canadian mail order company that did only speakers at the time. Now they do turntables etc. It was a 5.0 set (no subwoofer) for $330 shipped. They make almost everything sound very pleasing, paired with my Denon 2105 receiver. I "upgraded" the receiver to a fancier more modern Marantz a few years ago to get up to date with newer audio formats and connectivity (like HDMI) and I didn't like the sound as much as my old Denon. Sent it back.

Everything costs more now than it did then. It looks like Fluance has some similar offerings and they make subs now too. The main two front towers in this bundle (https://www.fluance.com/sxhtbw-high-definition-surround-sound-home-theater-speaker-system) look exactly like what I have (same drivers, arrangement, and cabinet size, just different finishes) and they are worth $500 for the pair easily based on how great they sound even 17 years later. The surrounds are a bonus. For 2-channel music I almost don't need a sub. (But I have it just for that ultra low frequency stuff, and anyway now I have another dedicated 2-channel listening system in another room)

You make a great point about diminishing returns in audio. I'm always aiming to maximize performance and value at the same time, because I'd rather spend money on car stuff. :p I really feel like my Fluance speakers nailed it in this respect. I probably sound like I'm advertising for them, it's just because they've impressed me that much.

A note on subs: the HTIB ones usually aren't very good. They play low frequencies but they can be imprecise, not go super low, and sound uneven or muddy often times. Basically you get the impression there's some boomy bass noise of some kind in the air. A quality sub will go reaaal deep *and* sound musical, in other words the bass notes or frequencies can be easily distinguished and you get a sense of the actual texture of the bass sound (whether it's the string of a bass guitar or a synthetic movie explosion). If the Fluance sub is anywhere near as good as their speakers, it should do well. Here's the same speaker system with a sub (https://www.fluance.com/elite-series-surround-sound-home-theater-5-1-channel-speaker-system-sx51br). However, and spec sheets aren't everything, but a quick look at the sub specs here suggests it could be better. Its frequency response goes down to 38Hz at +/- 3db measurement. The SVS SB-1000 (https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000?variant=9532234051) goes down to 24Hz at +/- 3db and the PB-1000 (https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-1000) does 19Hz. The first one is sealed, the second one ported. To make a big generalization, sealed subs usually sound tighter and more musical, and ported subs usually can play lower/louder. SVS is a well respected subwoofer company and the only one I have personal experience with.

I think my recommendation would be a Fluance 5-speaker set, SVS sub, and a midrange Denon receiver ($500ish?). Here's one I just picked out of thin air: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/denon-avr-x1600h-7-2-channel-4k-uhd-av-receiver-supports-dolby-atmos-dtsx-dts-virtualx-amazon-alexa-compatible-black/6344750.p?skuId=6344750

Kchrpm

February 11th, 2021, 07:39 PM

At my neighbor's request, I have left my subwoofer out of my setup. Instead I now have two towers instead of bookshelves for my main speakers, and they have made my artwork jump off the wall multiple times.

Current equivalent of the towers I have below. I didn't recommend them before because they're $200 a piece normally, though they were down to $100 each in various holiday sales.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-core-series-dual-5-3-way-floorstanding-speaker-each-black/5926456.p?skuId=5926456

https://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/products/5926/5926456_sd.jpg

Kchrpm

February 11th, 2021, 07:50 PM

Oh, and if we're suggesting midlevel receivers, this Sony one is consistently reviewed well from my research and is my #goal purchase: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-1155w-7-2-ch-with-dolby-atmos-4k-ultra-hd-hdr-compatible-a-v-home-theater-receiver-black/5761206.p?skuId=5761206

Tom Servo

February 11th, 2021, 09:13 PM

We're still not at the "wireless speaker connections" point, are we?

Kchrpm

February 12th, 2021, 02:42 AM

Wireless speakers are an option, but there's still a latency problem. And a latency vs quality problem.

Rare White Ape

February 12th, 2021, 04:23 AM

About the only things that haven't changed in my HT setup are my Jamo speakers and the cables I use to run them.

All the other components have changed. The stuff I plug in (computer, consoles, TV) usually have a shelf life and are the main cost factor. Easy to understand.

The amp is a slightly different story. My current amp is the second Denon I've owned. The first amp I bought was a Sony and it died when the capacitors wore out. My second amp was a Denon and it was retired and sold because it wasn't compatible with 4K HDR over HDMI to my 4K TV. The current amp is the cheapest in the Denon line and allows 4K HDR and this futuristic technology called Bluetooth which lets me stream Spotify from my phone. My amps last as long as I am happy with the features they provide.

The only constant have been the aforementioned speakers and the speaker cables. They (the speakers, not the cables) are inarguably the most important part of any HT setup. Once you invest in a good array of speakers, they will stay with you for as long as you have functioning ears. And Sony doesn't make speakers like that.

George

February 12th, 2021, 08:02 AM

Thanks gents. As always, good information to think about here. These points to ponder should push any buying decisions back at least another year or three. :erm:

And Cudaman is right; I really don't want tiny speakers. I also don't want wireless speakers. And maybe one day I'll find a use for bluetooth, but I haven't yet.

I am grateful for the specific products you guys have mentioned, rather than just speaking in generalities.

I snapped a picture yesterday for my own future reference and thought I'd share it here in case anyone has any comments. This is one of the rear speaker wires coming out of drywall in one of the corners of the ceiling and how much room I have to work with. The walls are all off-white...that pink tint isn't there with the naked eye.

And, speaking of low-end, my iPhone 7 has started taking blurry pictures except for up close lately. I'm hoping if and when I update to the latest software version, that will be fixed.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZYc2r5NT/IMG-6431.jpg

George

February 12th, 2021, 08:20 AM

I notice both Sony receivers Kchrpm linked and the one from Cudaman do not have subwoofer outputs. Where would I plug in the sub?

I googled it and found pages like this one that seem to indicate I'll need to rig something in between the two. That seems strange to me. Doesn't (almost) everyone use subwoofers with home theatre setups?

https://www.digitalprosound.com/how-to-connect-subwoofer-to-receiver-without-subwoofer-output/

Heck, if I have to go to Radio Shack and buy some adapters to connect a sub, I can just use the receiver I already have. It has surround and center speaker outputs. I thought the lack of a subwoofer output was one of the two reasons I needed a newer receiver.

George

February 12th, 2021, 09:06 AM

Oops! I didn't look closely enough. I thought the subwoofer outs would look just like the speaker outs. After zooming in and looking around some more, I see the sub outputs on all three.

*dons dunce cap*

(and now I'm wondering if my 1990s Onkyo receiver has a sub output also and I didn't notice it)

Kchrpm

February 12th, 2021, 09:09 AM

The subwoofer plugs into the receiver, not the speakers.

Going back to the image of the back of the Yamaha, you can see a dedicated subwoofer out jack, labeled "PRE OUT SUBWOOFER" between the RCA ports and the speaker cable ports.

https://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/products/6352/6352589_bd.jpg

Some systems will have 2 or subwoofer output ports, for left and right subs.

Kchrpm

February 12th, 2021, 09:11 AM

Once you invest in a good array of speakers, they will stay with you for as long as you have functioning ears. And Sony doesn't make speakers like that.
I agree with the former but not the latter, but I am not an audio connoisseur :)

George

February 12th, 2021, 09:17 AM

Yup, I missed that the first time around. I thought the subwoofer outputs would look just like the other speaker outputs. I'm slow, but I catch on eventually.

CudaMan

February 12th, 2021, 10:04 AM

It's a different output because the receiver doesn't power the sub. It just sends a LFE signal to the sub and the sub's built-in amplifier amplifies it.

It looks like your phone focused on the bottom of the tape measure there. Focus point in the wrong spot? I don't speak iPhone.

FaultyMario

May 17th, 2021, 12:42 PM

I connected The Computer to the HiFi with the Bluetooth. The sound is bad. It starts to skip, like when needle is old or turntable mat is dirty.

I had older Apple TV out of duty because we bought newer Roku for streaming. So I now connect bridge from The iTunes to the Apple TV to The HiFi with The Toslink cable. I was under impression The iTunes to The Apple TV was a Wifi link.

Recent problems with AirPods not capable of playing The Lossless files via The Bluetooth lead me to question my choice of bridge.

So, quick question, by doing the iTunes-to-Apple TV bridge, am i using a broad band or the narrower BT signal?

Rare White Ape

May 17th, 2021, 02:03 PM

Computer or phone to Apple TV I’m 99% sure is WiFi. You’d have to manually connect your devices via Bluetooth if that was the case.

FaultyMario

May 17th, 2021, 02:52 PM

Yes, I remember, older Apple TVs do not support BT.

It'd suck to not be able to stream hi-def audio within your own network.

George

May 18th, 2021, 10:10 AM

It'd suck to not be able to stream hi-def audio within your own network.

:|

I've tried to do that but haven't been able to figure out how to make a USB flash drive and/or my entire home PC shared on the wi-fi network or even by ethernet. I've gone to Properties and clicked "Share" or whatever the command is but it hasn't worked.

Have thought about asking for advice, but my wife still prefers to put CDs in the CD player and I don't miss what I've never had, so I guess we'll continue to party like it's 1999.

FaultyMario

May 18th, 2021, 10:56 AM

Most of my problems stem from lossless formats.

Whilst the vast majority of my library was ripped in high bit rate MP3s (CDex FTW!), it's still a lossy format and prone to data loss in some wireless connections. The dear music, I have it in FLAC (either downloaded from the internet or ripped with Soundforge) and while I would love to have it hardwired via my 24-bit soundcard, it's not really feasible anymore. So I really want to be able to beam it across the house in the best fidelity possible, and that means using some older wares because that market bracket has moved away from me.

:|

George

May 18th, 2021, 11:26 AM

Most of that went right over my head, except for the part about the market moving away. It seems to come with getting older and watching things that used to work really well get replaced with more expensive stuff that isn't as good.

FaultyMario

May 18th, 2021, 11:12 PM

yup, "not feasible anymore" means the tradeoffs of fatherhood.

Yw-slayer

May 18th, 2021, 11:34 PM

Sonos? I don't consider myself a high-end audio dude, although I'd like to think I can tell the difference most of the time. But really, the quality is "good enough" for pretty much everything. Not cheap, but you're paying partly for the quality and the convenience.

The Denon HEOS system also works (we have a soundbar and sub) if that's cheaper/more available where you are. Obviously there are "hi-fi" brand solutions such as KEF, B&W, etc. but I don't see why anyone would go into those systems if they're not hi-fi nutters.

Tom Servo

May 19th, 2021, 08:39 PM

(CDex FTW!)

Is there still a reasonable version of that? The last time I looked to get CDex it was basically more of a malware/adware trojan horse than anything else.

Yw-slayer

May 20th, 2021, 04:42 AM

FRE:AC is the replacement.

Rare White Ape

May 20th, 2021, 06:15 AM

For all my music needs I just have my pc plugged into the receiver and use my phone to control Spotify over WiFi. I can pick what I want from my pocket and the computer provides the sound.

Yw-slayer

May 20th, 2021, 06:21 AM

For all my music needs I just have my pc plugged into the receiver and use my phone to control Spotify over WiFi. I can pick what I want from my pocket and the computer provides the sound.

Yes, that works too.

I saw some people use ROON, but I have no need for that as I have Plex on the server and Sonos or HEOS-capable speakers in most rooms.

Tom Servo

May 20th, 2021, 06:43 AM

FRE:AC is the replacement.

Thanks!

Jason

May 20th, 2021, 02:55 PM

For all my music needs I just have my pc plugged into the receiver and use my phone to control Spotify over WiFi. I can pick what I want from my pocket and the computer provides the sound.

Spotify to AppleTV that has a sound system connected, here hah. I do not miss the days of trying to manage a music library.

Rare White Ape

May 21st, 2021, 02:11 AM

I deleted all off the music I’d “collected” over the years when I finally got a streaming sub. It was Apple Music for free for six months when I bought a phone.

I’ve switched to Spotify since then, but now I only keep the rare stuff from back then that fan sites shared.

FaultyMario

September 28th, 2021, 09:30 AM

Can confirm that https://www.foobar2000.org/ and its https://www.foobar2000.org/encoderpack do a great job of transcoding FLAC to Apple lossless.

Sound quality improvement is noticeable, even for a gritty album like Nirvana's Incesticide. I've also tried it with one of Nina Simone's remasters and there's definitely more clarity and depth versus a MP3 via the Apple TV WiFi-Toslink bridge.

George

October 11th, 2021, 11:31 AM

Can you guys stand another clueless old guy question from me? Probably not, but I'm going to post it anyway. Feel free to ignore it if I'm overstayed my welcome in this thread.

The short version: I want to pick up my iPhone while inside my house and connected to my home wifi network and be able to choose music stored on a USB flash drive that's plugged into a Windows 10 PC (or possibly Linux, more on that below) and stream that music to a bluetooth speaker from the phone.

I know I could do that easily from the bluetooth-equipped PC itself, but this is to be done in a part of the house where there are no PCs, which is why I thought the phone could act as a remote control for the PC.

Does anyone know of a website with instructions on how to do this? I have been searching for a while but am only finding instructions that end with "buy our software" or instructions of how to share USB drives via wired ethernet connections. I've actually searched for this information many times before but haven't ever gotten any useful information...not even "No, forget about it. It can't be done."

I called my ISP today, but it took a long time to get nowhere with them. I spoke to four different people (they kept transferring me to "someone who can help"), but I couldn't make anyone understand what I'm trying to do. Either that, or they're deliberately playing dumb because this is way more complicated than the questions they're supposed to be answering. I wish they'd just say, "you can't do this" or "we can't help you" if that's the case.

Anyway, here's what I'm trying to do...well, what I'm trying to set up for my wife, to be more accurate. If it was for me, I'd just use an mp3 player, but I haven't been able to get her to use the one I bought for her. Maybe the screen is too small or the buttons are confusing. I don't know.

I have:

1. Desktop computer that's powered on most of the time running Windows 10. I also have an older (but not old) computer I got free from work that I've been meaning to reformat to run UbuntuStudio or similar and I can do that if it will help with this. Edited to add: I actually have a few older PCs I got for free recently that I'm not using. They have i5 processors, so they aren't ancient (or are they?). I could dedicate an entire PC to this task if it makes sense to do so, and run any flavor of Linux if that would make this easier.

2. I have a USB flash drive full of mp3 files from CDs we own. They're organized in folders by band name and album name, just like how Windows Media Player saves them when I rip CDs to hard drive.

3. iPhone

4. Every intention of buying a good bluetooth wireless speaker (or two) once I know if this can be done

5. A Comcast/Xfinity wifi router that does not have a slot into which I can plug in a USB drive. Apparently that would make this very easy, according to websites I've found while searching.

6. An older router (ASUS, I think) that I purchased a couple years ago to use with a previous ISP. That one does have a USB slot (two, actually). I'm thinking if I plug the old router into the current router with an ethernet cable, it might work, but we would have to change wifi networks on the phone every time we wanted to stream music...and my PC would have to be on the "other" wifi network also, right? That might be too many steps to be practical, but if it's an option, I'd like to know.

Can this be done, and if so, can anyone suggest a link? I don't expect you guys to give me step-by-step instructions; I'm just hoping for a link to a website or video or something that doesn't end with "click here to purchase our product or service."

If I must pay, that might be okay. I just haven't found anything that says this can't be done with what I already own and it seems like it ought to be.

Kchrpm

October 11th, 2021, 01:36 PM

I love that you're going this far in the weeds for something that could be easily done with any number of modern streaming services for $5/month. And if the music on your flash drive is so rare that it actually isn't on those services, some of them let you upload your own music.

Or, another question, why not just copy the music from the flash drive to the phone? They make phones with tons of memory and/or SD card slots.

I think you're overcomplicating this.

Yw-slayer

October 11th, 2021, 01:52 PM

Why does it have to a a Bluetooth speaker? That appears to be the main issue.

The easiest solution, if you want portability and have WiFi in that area, appears to be to get a sonos move. You can achieve what you want over WiFi, from the sonos app on an iPhone, since the sonos server software on your pc will read and categorise your mp3 files on the drive. It also has a Bluetooth speaker mode (which operates separately from its normal WiFi mode but operates like a normal Bluetooth speaker).

If you want to save a bit of money and don't need as much volume, you could look at the cheaper Sonos Bluetooth speaker called the Roam which should also do the same (I don't know for sure as I don't have one, and only have the Move), or the lower end Denon HEOS-compatible speaker (Home 150) which allows you to do the same via Denon's HEOS route.

These all, I think, also have Airplay or Airplay 2 in case that's relevant (which it may be as you have an iPhone, but I don't know if it's relevant as I don't use it).

George

October 11th, 2021, 02:21 PM

Yes, I'm sure I'm overcomplicating it. If it were up to me, I would (and do) use an mp3 player and I would (and do) stream internet radio such as www.classicdeepcuts.com.

I'm trying to do what I used to do with audio gear (guitars and mixers and recorders) - rig up a bunch of wires and adaptors to connect stuff that wasn't necessarily designed to work together. I just can't find any good instructions on how to do this. Here's the best site I've found so far:

https://www.linksys.com/us/support-article?articleNum=138002

But that's for Windows 7. Why can't I find anything more recent? I'm googling things such as "how to share usb drive in computer on wifi". The other thing I don't know is how to even browse network drives with an iPhone. So perhaps I'm like a guy trying to stuff an elephant into a shoebox. Maybe there's nothing on the web about this because nobody does it.

As far as $5/month goes, can I just dial up the full "Exile On Main Street" album by the Rolling Stones, just as an example, and have it play in its entirety without ads? If this is possible, that's something to consider.

Maybe I should just buy a bluetooth speaker and say, "Use this with your phone" and see what happens. The problem is she's even more behind with technology than I am. She would still prefer to load CDs into the tray and press play. Meanwhile, I'm over there holding up an mp3 player and saying, "There are a hundred of our CDs that I know you like on this thing." And, at the same time, you guys are looking at me like I'm looking at her and shaking your heads. :lol:

Years ago, and I mean several years ago, not just a couple, we were at a neighbor's house. Someone mentioned a movie and within seconds, the homeowner had it playing on his TV via the phone in his hand. He said that movie and a bunch of others were on his computer's hard drive. That's all I want to do here, only with music and a speaker rather than a movie on a monitor. I'd ask him, but he moved away long ago. If he could do that many years ago, why can't I do it now?

First world problems. :)

Edited to add this after reading YW's reply:

Sonos, eh? Thanks. I'll check 'em out.

And why bluetooth? I dunno - that's what everyone talks about, so I thought that's how you send a wireless signal to a speaker. I don't use bluetooth for anything now. If I can do it all with the wifi we have now and just buy a speaker (which I'd have to do anyway for this application), that's great.

Thanks to you both.

Yw-slayer

October 11th, 2021, 02:35 PM

I just read the bit again about your routers. Sorry, it's around 645am here. You can plug the Asus router into your comcast router, turn off the WiFi function and DNS server on the Asus, and use the latter as a non-wifi wired router, which means no faffing around with other WiFi networks. IF, when in that state, the Asus can allow you to serve/access your USB drive (I don't know as I've never really rated the USB ports on Asus routers) then going by what you said, you should be alright be alright.

The sonos/denon gear will obviously cost more but, depending on your current Bluetooth speaker, you could look at new gear as an audio/experience upgrade. It's definitely smoother and less wonky and you can also easily use the apps (I have both systems, mainly Sonos around the house but for HEOS only a soundbar and sub) to play TuneIn and other free internet radio if you don't want to pay for streaming services and want to go beyond your flash drive. There may be a way of your currently doing that via the PC iPhone etc. Setup but I haven't looked into it.

Sorry I read your other stuff too. Yes you cna pay for Spotify Premium and stream a huge amount of classic rock Inc the Stones' catalogue ad-free (and also download it into your phone for on the go listening). Or you can use normal and put up with ads.

From what you say, I think Sonos/HEOS is the way forward for you. They're thr most flexible and the sound is actually quite good. If you don't need Bluetooth or portability, but would like stereo as an option, look at a Sonos One, 3 or 5 as you can upgrade to stereo later if you need it. I think the Sonos interface is slightly better than the heos interface, and their products are generally easier to find, but your mileage may vary and there are other matters which may cause issues (such as they last year announced that certain older 8+ year old Gen1 products wouldn't be upgraded any further or pairable on the network with their newer products which affects the ease of using multi-room audio, although you could still happily run them on their own if you want... Anyway this is an issue only if you dislike forced "obsolescence").

P.S. I find the Sonos sound to be genuinely quite good. Maybe even mid-to-higher-end audio. The Denon (as you would expect from a soundbar) is also great for movies, games, TV, and lively music as it makes everything sound very engaging. I haven't tried listening to classical or jazz on it as I think it may be a bit too lively for the former and I generally dislike the latter.

FaultyMario

October 11th, 2021, 06:07 PM

I don't think the denon home line of standalone speaker boxes is a bad proposition. Not awesome value, but not bad. Might be worth it to put a flag on it to get notified of a price drop.

If, by principle, you oppose to those little boxes, there's also a line of HEOS receivers, but they don't look the price.

Kchrpm

October 11th, 2021, 09:12 PM

As far as $5/month goes, can I just dial up the full "Exile On Main Street" album by the Rolling Stones, just as an example, and have it play in its entirety without ads? If this is possible, that's something to consider.

*checks* I was wrong, it's $10/month, or $15 for a family plan (family plans let you have ~6 people with their own logins, playlists, history, etc, and simultaneous streaming on different devices).

https://music.youtube.com/music_premium

https://www.spotify.com/us/premium/

I did confirm that your example album is on YouTube Music, and yes, it would play the entire album straight through without ads. You can control exactly what plays via your phone by setting up a saved playlist or your in-the-moment queue, or you could get a smart speaker and just tell it what to play.

Yw-slayer

October 11th, 2021, 09:43 PM

I think Sonos also plays stuff off YouTube music. Haven't tried it, though. I do have a family, so the Spotify family plan works out well. The audio quality is also better than on the ad-supported version.

CudaMan

October 12th, 2021, 10:35 AM

For years I dreamed of the same, George. Pull up any song or album I want on a phone or tablet, have it play in CD-quality through my stereo with no cables attached to the phone/tablet. It was possible for several years back in the day but more complicated and expensive. Google Chromecast changed all that and made it possible to set up on a shoestring. You just needed to subscribe to a music streaming service. At the time I bought a Chromecast for my TV (it's hooked up to a nice sound system) and a Chromecast Audio, which doesn't have any video capability, to my 2-channel living room stereo. They were like $30 each. Each Chromecast has its own name on the home network, and I can name them whatever I want.

With the Chromecast hooked up to the TV, you can also easily stream YouTube videos or Facebook videos from your phone. Many apps have Cast capability, at least with Android.

One advantage to YouTube Music is, if you watch YouTube on other devices you will no longer have ads there either (assuming you're signed in to your account).

As a sound quality snob I find it slightly lacking, but 99% of the population is probably fine with it. HiFi streaming services like Tidal and Qobuz fill that super high quality void, but for many people they are add-ons due to their somewhat more limited content vs Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube Music. I actually can't remember not being able to find any albums on Tidal so far in about a year of using it.

Edit - I would usually buy 2 or 3 albums a month on average, back in the CD days. There was a period of a few years where I was buying albums on MP3 digital download instead, or buying the CD through Amazon and getting the download thrown in so I could load it into my iPod more easily. I pretty much stopped buying albums when I started streaming music, and it worked out cheaper anyway. I just buy Dream Theater albums to have the physical copies because they're my favorite band.

Rare White Ape

October 12th, 2021, 02:24 PM

The short version: I want to pick up my iPhone while inside my house and connected to my home wifi network and be able to choose music stored on a USB flash drive that's plugged into a Windows 10 PC (or possibly Linux, more on that below) and stream that music to a bluetooth speaker from the phone.

Add music to your iTunes library. Control iTunes from your iPhone.

Easy!

FaultyMario

October 12th, 2021, 03:23 PM

Add music to your iTunes library. Control iTunes from your iPhone.

Easy!

That's my solution. Stream from iTunes thru the old Apple TV (https://denver.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=apple%20tv&sort=rel) into the receiver.

That way I avoid the bandwidth limitations of Bluetooth and thanks to Foobar, I can transcode CDs and FLAC files to apple lossless.

Tom Servo

October 12th, 2021, 03:26 PM

I've got a similar setup with Youtube Music and various devices in my house. I've got a couple of the first-generation Google homes, and they sound fine, though they have much better speakers on the newer ones. I can just stream to those from Spotify or my own music collection on Youtube Music.

I preferred it when it was Google Music, the new app just is not as good, but I still can play all my tunes in pretty much any room in the house.

XHawkeye

October 12th, 2021, 03:35 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBgq2QbXsAQo4pi.jpg:large

Cheapskates way to watch ad free Youtube on PC is to use the Brave browser.

FaultyMario

October 12th, 2021, 03:46 PM

Both the amp and the turntable are probably still topping some lists.

I mean, just look at them. They're massive!

Tom Servo

October 12th, 2021, 04:07 PM

It is entirely possible my uncle still has that reel-to-reel.

Rare White Ape

October 12th, 2021, 06:01 PM

That's my solution. Stream from iTunes thru the old Apple TV (https://denver.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=apple%20tv&sort=rel) into the receiver.

That way I avoid the bandwidth limitations of Bluetooth and thanks to Foobar, I can transcode CDs and FLAC files to apple lossless.

I think iTunes can import to Apple Lossless too, but it's been so long since I have ripped any music that I just don't know.

But in general my suggestion is a way to avoid overthinking it to the nth degree.

George, you already own an iPhone, you already own a PC. Just download iTunes to that PC, sign into your Apple account to pair the phone to it, import your USB music into iTunes (I recommend first copying the whole lot to the HDD to avoid messing up your file structure on the USB drive) and boom. You can connect to iTunes on the PC via wifi, and the PC can send your music out of Windows via whatever option you want.

Yw-slayer

October 12th, 2021, 06:41 PM

I never thought about controlling iTunes through an apple device as I've never tried it. Yes, I guess he could do that, and do so via a speaker of his choice. Much depends kn whether he wants WiFi and multi-room. Since I assume you guys all live in houses with 12 rooms and pretty big walk-in showers.

George

October 12th, 2021, 07:20 PM

George, you already own an iPhone, you already own a PC. Just download iTunes to that PC, sign into your Apple account to pair the phone to it, import your USB music into iTunes (I recommend first copying the whole lot to the HDD to avoid messing up your file structure on the USB drive) and boom. You can connect to iTunes on the PC via wifi, and the PC can send your music out of Windows via whatever option you want.

This is exactly what I've been hoping is possible.

I already have iTunes on that very PC, as described in another thread about my failed (so far) attempts to commandeer an iPad as if I had stolen it (but I didn't).

I recommend first copying the whole lot to the HDD

Yes. It's all there already because that's the PC I rip CDs on, and I have it all on a removable hard drive also. And a bunch of it on a USB stick or three also.

Just download iTunes to that PC, sign into your Apple account to pair the phone to it

This seems perfect so far.

Let's say my PC is in the basement of Guard House 4 on the southwestern frontier of my estate.

I'm about to step into the walk-in shower in the Primary Residence Building and I have my iPhone in my hand. It is connected to the same wifi network as the PC.

You're saying I can browse my music on the PC from the phone, and then cause the phone to broadcast it somehow (whether bluetooth or wifi) to a nearby wireless speaker?

That would solve all (well, one) of my First World Problems. Do I have to download an app to the phone to connect to the PC? iTunes, maybe? It's not currently installed but I know where to get it.

George

October 12th, 2021, 08:46 PM

It looks like iTunes Remote is the app for me. I’ll download it tomorrow. Bedtime now. Thanks gents.

Yw-slayer

October 12th, 2021, 09:47 PM

Enjoy, also enjoy having saved money!

I do recommend looking into streaming services though. Sometimes they have exclusive online only recordings/streams, including from bands that you may both like. Not to mention podcasts etc. Obviously there will probably be alternative ways of obtaining the files, but they may well fall foul of the law and are probably more bother than they are worth (which I suspect is the main reason piracy is not, apparently, as big of an issue as it used to be).

Rare White Ape

October 12th, 2021, 11:26 PM

It looks like iTunes Remote is the app for me. I’ll download it tomorrow. Bedtime now. Thanks gents.

No! Get out of bed! Get down and boogie!

Just be sure to have both your PC and iTunes signed into your Apple account. For instructions use the iTunes help menu and search for 'remote'. Home Sharing is the easiest way to do it (in iTunes click File > Home Sharing). If it doesn't work first time, just turn home sharing off (in both Remote app and iTunes settings) then on again.

XHawkeye

November 1st, 2021, 04:03 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FC22SBLXIAgGSQt.jpg:large

Rare White Ape

November 2nd, 2021, 12:56 AM

https://images.rapgenius.com/f34419d4908f11c7d7e441da34527cbd.650x370x1.jpg

George

January 13th, 2022, 07:47 AM

If I'm not pushing my luck, I'm wondering if you guys can save me hours of googling to figure just one more thing out with this iTunes business. There's always just one more thing, right?

Add music to your iTunes library. Control iTunes from your iPhone.

I have finally gotten around to doing this. I have iTunes running on my Windows 10 PC. I dragged one album that I have saved on that PC into iTunes. iTunes converted it to some other format. Okay, whatever. I guess that will simply take up more space on my PC's hard drive and not change the original files. But, I digress.

I turned on Home Sharing in iTunes on the PC.

I have the Apple Remote application on my iPhone.

I can select any or all tracks on the one album and cause them to play with my iPhone. So far, so good, and I'm grateful for all the help you guys have given me above.

However, I thought the sound would come out of the iPhone instead of my PC's speakers, and therefore I could re-direct the signal to a portable bluetooth speaker in other rooms of the house.

Can I do that, or is the sound always going to come from the PC?

And, if the sound will always come from the PC, would I then want a wi-fi speaker instead of a bluetooth speaker? I currently have neither but am ready to buy something that will sound decent and is portable enough to move from room to room occasionally.

I have googled but I'm only finding general iTunes and Home Sharing information and nothing yet about this specific situation.

FaultyMario

January 13th, 2022, 12:41 PM

haven't tried it with an iPhone, but i think itunes gives you the option to choose the output once you have started home sharing. On the upper left hand side there's a triangle icon similar to the windows sound thingy where you mark which device you want to produce the sound.

George

January 13th, 2022, 03:27 PM

I don't see that option within iTunes on the PC and it's definitely not in the iTunes Settings on the phone.

I think I'm going to need to select a different output from the PC in Windows, such as one kind of remote speaker or another, instead of the typical PC speakers that are plugged into it.

FaultyMario

January 13th, 2022, 04:27 PM

https://support.apple.com/guide/itunes/choose-speakers-itns3095/windows

A better explanation. Obviously.

Rare White Ape

January 13th, 2022, 08:27 PM

Without knowing the specifics, if you have Bluetooth speakers you will want to connect them to the device you want the sound to come from. If they can connect to your PC then that would be ideal.

Think of it this way:

The PC is the centre of your music playing setup. Connect the speakers to the PC for them to play what's playing on the PC. The phone is just a dumb remote control, like a really fancy input device.

Here's an alternative setup which you probably do already:

The phone is the centre of your music playing setup. The PC is a separate thing which is not involved. Connect the Bluetooth speakers to your phone and send audio directly to them.

George

January 14th, 2022, 08:21 AM

https://support.apple.com/guide/itunes/choose-speakers-itns3095/windows

A better explanation. Obviously.

Thanks Mario. I didn't find that page when I was looking around yesterday.

That helped me find the triangle icon you mentioned. I opened every menu trying to find some output options but didn't realize that was a thing that could be clicked on.

It's right there in plain sight above the Account menu. :smh:

It reminds me of when I started playing GTA V on the Xbox 360 and didn't realize the big chrome Xbox logo on the controller was a button that could be pressed to make thing happen. I thought it was just a logo. I guess I'm just getting old and have a withering imagination.

https://i.postimg.cc/3rDxRJ1K/iTunes-2.jpg

The Buck Owens album is the one I grabbed at random and dragged into iTunes yesterday as a test. I don't know where the U2 album came from; it's not one I own.

Clicking the triangle icon shows me two options. I guess I need to get some kind of remote speaker now - which has been the plan all along - to send the output to.

https://i.postimg.cc/Fs5sJ5C0/iTunes-1.jpg

From what I've read, wi-fi speakers sound better and I assume they have a greater range than bluetooth. The PC is going to stay in the basement but I'd like the sound to be controlled and listened to upstairs, which has what has been driving this madness all along.

This is supposed to be a surprise for my wife, actually. She's still putting CDs into a boom-box. I figured she could just pick up her iPhone and choose from our entire CD collection that's on the PC and have it play on some kind of speaker in the same room she's in. Then, we won't have CD cases all over the place like a late-'80s college dorm room. :lol:

Thanks again, gents. Sorry to be such a rube.

FaultyMario

January 14th, 2022, 12:19 PM

So what's the present, the wifi speaker?

:p

George

January 14th, 2022, 01:25 PM

Not a present, just a pleasant surprise - I hope. I previously bought her an mp3 player a while back and loaded it with her favorite albums but she didn't use it. Fine - now I have a backup mp3 player, and I'll be the first to admit the tiny, scrolling display on the mp3 player is hard to get used to. I'm hoping the larger screen on her iPhone would make it easier to browse and select what she wants to hear.

I'm trying to do a nice thing, but as a luddite myself, I realize some folks like to do some things their way. That's why I'm not out buying a Sonos Move as YW suggested - at least not yet. I may just take the PC and its wired speakers upstairs long enough to demonstrate the concept this weekend.

Speaking of the Sonos Move, for $400 you don't get an auxiliary input? That's just plain evil, like Apple taking standard headphone jacks off their phones. :angry:

:)

George

January 21st, 2022, 10:27 AM

Yesterday I bought and installed a Sonos One speaker and the iTunes Remote app on my wife's iPhone and iPad. I still have some things to learn about how the iTunes program on my Windows PC works, but so far, so good. I suspect it will not be our only Sonos product as time goes on.

Thanks to everyone for explaining what I needed to be able to stream music around the house from the PC in the basement.

FaultyMario

January 21st, 2022, 12:43 PM

That and a back rub and you should be set for a weekend of winning.

Yw-slayer

January 22nd, 2022, 06:13 AM

I wouldn't call a Sonos One lower-end audio. It's reasonably mid-range (albeit for normal people, that is, not audiophiles).

Rare White Ape

January 23rd, 2022, 12:56 AM

Thanks to everyone for explaining what I needed to be able to stream music around the house from the PC in the basement.

Not a problem. I hope it all works well for you.

Yw-slayer

March 30th, 2022, 04:50 AM

A friend used his karaoke set 3 times, out of which the cops were called on him twice. He gave it to me (I'll obviously pay him for it) and now we can all sing! Woohoo!

JoshInKC

March 31st, 2022, 11:17 AM

For the past few years I've been trying to figure out a justification for getting reimbursed on purchasing a karaoke machine to take into the field in the summers. I think it'd be a riot to have contests through the summer, but not enough to pay for it out of my own pocket.

Yw-slayer

March 31st, 2022, 05:36 PM

It's not THAT expensive, right? Just do it, man!

(over here, the main concern is space and neighbours - but admittedly karaoke is also a much bigger thing over here)

JoshInKC

March 31st, 2022, 06:55 PM

That's true, but the lack of cell service where I work in the summers means I'd need piles of cds on top of the machine.

Kchrpm

March 31st, 2022, 07:20 PM

Or a full hard drive?

Yw-slayer

March 31st, 2022, 10:18 PM

I agree with Keith. This rig populates its disk via WiFi.

George

July 5th, 2022, 10:25 AM

Yesterday I bought and installed a Sonos One speaker and the iTunes Remote app on my wife's iPhone and iPad. I still have some things to learn about how the iTunes program on my Windows PC works, but so far, so good.

The Sonos One continues to work as it should and sounds good.

Recently, my wife discovered Pandora and has been streaming music from the internet, having temporarily exhausted her interest in our CD collection that's on iTunes on my PC in the basement. This is good for music variety, but of course she can't use the Sonos One to play music from her phone (other than from the Apple Remote app), since it's wifi-only and is not a bluetooth speaker. I know. I researched this before I bought the Sonos One and understood its limitations when I bought it.

An iPhone on maximum volume sitting on a countertop or table playing even one's most favorite music is a horrible thing. It's like the sound of an amplified beehive turned up to eleven. It's a shrill sound that pierces the air and makes everyone within earshot tremble and cringe from the overload of treble. Everyone except my wife, I guess, but she, like me, grew up with AM radios in our cars and in our parents' kitchens. She's perfectly happy with low, or lower-end audio. Or middle. ;)

But then, our son, shaking his head as usual at his old and technologically-challenged parents, showed us how to "cast" music from our phones.

Did you guys know that you can send audio from any website on your phone to a speaker that's connected to a home wifi network? :eek:

I didn't. I guess I just assumed it only worked with the Apple Remote app that connects to iTunes on our PC.

CudaMan

July 5th, 2022, 10:47 AM

I cast stuff through Chromecast. That's not even required anymore? Or do you have it and I forgot?

Agreed on phone speakers for listening in a room. I can't stand it. Even my $35 Amazon bluetooth portable speaker is a huge improvement. And acceptable for some things like cooking or working out.

Yw-slayer

July 5th, 2022, 06:46 PM

Did you guys know that you can send audio from any website on your phone to a speaker that's connected to a home wifi network? :eek:

I don't think it's the wifi connection per se. Rather, it's a protocol built on top of the wifi connection that allows the casting. Since you are talking about an iphone, you are probably using the airplay protocol to send the data (over wifi) to the Sonos. If you had an Android phone then you would probably have to use Chromecast.

Kchrpm

September 20th, 2022, 06:52 PM

Even with trivia hosting, I have no reason to get this monster speaker. But when I buy a new house and put a theater/karaoke lounge in the basement? Oh yeah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh3E2_7VqZg

FaultyMario

February 10th, 2023, 06:41 PM

I thought Spotify only broadcasted music in lossy formats. Has that changed?

Rare White Ape

February 10th, 2023, 08:47 PM

I don't know. To answer that I would have to Google it.

Tom Servo

February 10th, 2023, 09:00 PM

If I compare the audio between Spotify and my uploaded YT Music tracks, I have to believe that it's still lossy. Very lossy. Honestly, over headphones, Spotify sounds like ass compared to YT Music.

FaultyMario

February 11th, 2023, 07:12 AM

My understanding is that YT has the infrastructure in place to beam out HD video and, because of that, they recommend a minimum encoding of 384 kbps (https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/1722171), which is in the upper ranges of lossy.

Reason I asked is because I recently saw some ads for reissues of classic 90s albums with the "R3MASTER'DD" buzzword attached to them, and I thought, why bother if it's gonna sound like shit over Spotify?

Tom Servo

February 11th, 2023, 10:56 AM

No doubt, and then you usually stream it over Bluetooth, which adds even more garbage to it.

It's not the greatest album, but Prodigy's "Fat of the Land" was an album that was big when I was in college and I still use it to test out bass. The difference in audio quality between Spotify and YT on that is astonishing.

That said, Spotify is built into my new car and it's like "well, the music will sound like shit, but I also have access to basically everything, so I guess six-of-one, half-a-dozen of the other." On the other hand, the car advertised this stupidly fancy 14 speaker setup that's supposed to sound great (and shockingly, even podcasts sound like the people are sitting in the car with you), so...yeah. We're progressing really hard in one direction and regressing really hard in the other.

Yw-slayer

February 11th, 2023, 06:36 PM

This thread has caused me to re-experiment with Tidal.

I wish there were a way to sync my folder structure so that I don't need to go into all of the Rockabye playlist and delete them, or delete all of my playlists, or select only a few to sync.

CudaMan

February 13th, 2023, 08:55 AM

Spotify *should* be of fairly similar quality to YT Music given equal settings, most of the time. Often these non-HiFi streaming services default to a low quality stream, particularly on a mobile connection, and changing that can take audio quality from garbage to acceptable.

One exception I know of is Spotify feeds Chromecast Audio 256kbps files max, for some reason.

CudaMan

November 15th, 2023, 07:24 AM

It's time for a new garage stereo. My 1992 Panasonic boombox is finally letting go. A few years ago I had a roommate with a Bose Wave radio which sounded much better in the garage and didn't take up much space. Finding a used one might be an option, though not quite everything I'm after.

As usual, after a bit of searching, I haven't quite found what I'm looking for.

- Decent enough sound quality (time to upgrade this aspect!)
- Bluetooth
- FM tuner, with a strong preference for dedicated preset buttons like you'd find in a car
- Space utilization is a factor in my overcrowded garage

I did find this KEiiD unit (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09H6ZKZ3G)which is interesting right off the bat. Whaddya know, a Volkswagen car stereo adapted to be an all in one home system. They do have a Corolla-based radio that comes with separate bookshelf speakers, which would be more space efficient, but for some reason that radio (with KEiiD's own front panel buttons) doesn't appeal to me. Additional KEiiD questions in my mind:
- Completely unknown brand (quality, sound quality, warranty etc)
- Relatively small drivers, though that can still provide OK bass with the right cabinet porting (see Bose Wave Radio), but have they done that?
- It's wiiiide. Might as well be a big receiver.

... Which leads me to the option of a 2ch receiver and bookshelf speakers mounted to the wall(s). The enticing part about this option is I can choose my own speakers. The well-regarded Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2 (mouthful!) is currently on a big discount, so I'm tempted to scoop them up and figure out the rest later. A used receiver might be an option but finding a 2-channel with Bluetooth is limiting for sure.

Also receivers don't have proper buttons for radio presets and source selection, which makes changes take longer (I need to make changes as I walk by, not have to stand in front of it). The $150 Yamaha and Sony 2-channel receivers both make you cycle through sources to get to the one you want. Maybe not a big deal if FM and Bluetooth are right next to each other in the menu. And the remotes can solve this issue, if I can find a good spot for a remote that's also line of sight to the receiver.

FaultyMario

November 15th, 2023, 12:13 PM

Get the Sonos that better fits your budget. That solves 3 out of your 4 needs.

Or maybe a WX-series if you're a Yamaha kind of guy.

CudaMan

November 21st, 2023, 10:35 AM

I really want FM, my local area has some solid stations and they don't all stream on iHeart.

I'm halfway to a solution though. I bought those Elac bookshelves and got my vintage Yamaha receiver out of the closet. Cleaned off my tool chest and made room for it all. I've only had a short time playing with it but it sounds so much better already! I am going to enjoy wrenching that much more now. :)

4219

The old Yamaha is too nice/collectible to leave out in the garage long term. It's serving temporary duty. It's also gigantic and heavy. What I may end up with is an 80s/90s receiver because I've seen some of those on eBay with dedicated preset and source buttons. And then just hook up a BT receiver, or a Chromecast, or even just live with the RCA->3.5mm->USB-C chain to my phone.

It's all going to take up a bit too much space so I may have to get creative with a rack/shelf for the receiver, and wall mounts for the speakers. I have a high shelf I can put a receiver on, but only if it has a remote and it'll still work well in that location because it's out of reach.

FaultyMario

November 21st, 2023, 12:14 PM

Noice!

If you're an itunes guy, get your hands on an old Apple tv to add wifi audio to an analog receiver.

Kchrpm

November 21st, 2023, 06:08 PM

I'll just leave this here:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=38360&srsltid=AfmBOoo6KjEnUZHXM-YtUUo5xrU-EgG8W3fU8LKbd5QYxtDU2o7S84DjHlg

https://images.monoprice.com/productlargeimages/383601.jpg

21Kid

November 23rd, 2023, 05:59 PM

Kchrpm

November 23rd, 2023, 06:19 PM

There's a 50 watt version!

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16153

Rare White Ape

November 23rd, 2023, 07:51 PM

@CudaMan, I was going to suggest a decent soundbar as an alternative but then you said this bit:

I really want FM, my local area has some solid stations and they don't all stream on iHeart.

Yeah the main drawback is these things moving away from including a good old fashioned tuner these days. And not a lot of them have analogue inputs anymore either, so getting a separate tuner to fill that need is getting harder and harder all the time.

I guess… you have no choice but to get a high quality amplifier and some bookshelf speakers then.

CudaMan

November 23rd, 2023, 11:09 PM

25W is plenty if your speakers are efficient enough. Tekton comes to mind. My speakers aren't though.

I've heard some really good expensive tube amps. Like them a lot.

If I ever do get Tektons, good chance I'd also spring for a modest tube amp like the one above. Just for fun.

21Kid

November 30th, 2023, 08:11 AM

There's a 50 watt version!

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16153

$200?!?

Kchrpm

November 30th, 2023, 08:17 AM

Tubes!

CudaMan

November 30th, 2023, 10:55 AM

$200 is nothing for an amp with some nice features if it's any good quality.

Fits right in in the low-lower-or-middle-but-not-high end thread. :)

Freude am Fahren

November 30th, 2023, 01:55 PM

So we just moved into a house that has built in speakers in both the Living Room (with a 2ch zone for the patio out back) and Office/Media room. I see 5 speakers in each room, though the wiring coming out of the walls do have Subwoofer cables, I have no idea where the subs are...

Debating actually getting a receiver (or two) to utilize them or just stick with the audio I'm using already (TV in Bedroom & Office/Media room, Soundbar in Living Room). Knowing nothing about the speakers (they were probably installed when the house was built in 2012), I have no idea if it's even worth it, especially for someone that has no spatial audio perception due to being deaf in one ear.

21Kid

December 4th, 2023, 08:38 AM

FAF, a lot of the newer receivers w/spatial audio have virtual processing that will 'find' what speakers you have (with an included microphone) and adjust the sound accordingly. So, you don't need to know exactly which wire belongs to which speaker.

"DTS:X is a flexible codec that works with any speaker configuration within a hemispherical layout. It doesn't require a specific speaker layout, so you can arrange your home theater system however you want."

Dolby Atmos is a little more particular about wanting overhead speakers. However, I've read that unless you have extra high ceilings (over 8 ft) it's preferable to have up-firing speakers that reflect off the ceiling.

CudaMan

December 4th, 2023, 09:38 AM

FaF, I'd say it's still worth getting a surround receiver and hooking it up, main reason being the sound quality and tonal range should be a lot better than a soundbar (and certainly a TV's built in speakers). Unless the built-in wall speakers are terrible - but why would they be if someone went to all the trouble to do that?

-

As for me, I Cyber Monday'd an Onkyo 2ch receiver (TX-8260) with networking capabilities including Tidal, Spotify, etc and Chromecast Built-in. It arrived yesterday and I put it in the garage in place of the vintage Yamaha. The usability of the new Onkyo is good - one reason I selected it is for the programmable memory buttons on the face of it, that allow instant tuning in to a radio station (FM or Internet).

The sound is dull and lifeless though. I'm really disappointed in that so far. I didn't expect it to be on the same level as the old Yamaha (built in the heyday of 70s Hi-Fi!) but I expected it to be close enough what with modern technology and understanding. You don't need 50+ lbs of Class A/B amplification to provide decent or even good sound to a pair of bookshelves. But the Onkyo is really a letdown. I don't know if I can bring myself to keep it. It doesn't matter what I do with the tone controls, or what source I'm playing, it always sounds bland, thin, and bright (not in a good way). No part of the frequency range sounds good really. And it lacks bottom end. Turning up the bass control exaggerates a midbass frequency range but doesn't help the low end. It's mildly infuriating. :lol:

The vintage receiver sounded so much more alive. Often, 70s receivers are said to have an overly warm presentation to them, and a bit of distortion (enough to sound pleasing, like tubes do), but my Yamaha if anything is described as one of the more flat, clean, accurate sounds of the era. By the spec sheet the distortion is very low even by today's standards.

I dunno what to do. Sell the Onkyo at a small loss and hunt for a cheaper vintage receiver? I don't need a ton of watts, I only had the volume at 2-3 (out of 10) on my Yamaha most of the time. I bought the Onkyo for the convenience of not having to get up and turn a tune wheel to change radio stations, or go to my plugged-in phone to change Tidal tracks/playlist.

I sure do like the smaller size of the Onkyo though!

Yw-slayer

December 4th, 2023, 02:53 PM

Can you return the Onkyo? Or is it too late to do so?

CudaMan

December 5th, 2023, 08:59 AM

I mean it's used now, and there's nothing wrong with it technically. I just don't like it. Not a good enough reason to return. There's also the fact this is my 2nd time buying from A4L and it would be my 2nd return... the first was a refurb Marantz AVR years ago that broke after a few days, so that one was justified, but still.

Yw-slayer

December 5th, 2023, 10:27 PM

Here I wouldn't be able to return it. I was under the impression that most place in the US and the UK offer free returns, if not no questions asked then subject to "not taking the piss".

CudaMan

December 6th, 2023, 08:33 AM

Turns out there is something wrong with it, so maybe? Chromecast implementation is buggy. It cuts out from time to time and doesn't do gapless playback (where a real Chromecast does, with the same apps). I'll have to check if the Onkyo is on the latest firmware and if it is, perhaps I can return it.

21Kid

December 6th, 2023, 09:44 AM

I just use a Google Nest speaker in the garage. : shrug : :lol:

CudaMan

January 16th, 2024, 12:21 PM

Bit of an update.

I returned the boring-sounding Onkyo on the grounds of the hopelessly buggy Chromecast implementation. Had to pay return shipping and a restocking fee, lesson learned I suppose.

In its place now is an older (early 90s?) Denon DRA-635R that I picked up off Mercari. It sounds way better! About 80-90% as good as my vintage Yamaha did. And the Denon cleaned up real nice too!

Click to embiggen.

https://pbase.com/bryanh/image/174251729/medium.jpg (https://pbase.com/bryanh/image/174251729/original)
Spiderwebs, weird stains on the heat sinks and some PCBs too.

https://pbase.com/bryanh/image/174251732/medium.jpg (https://pbase.com/bryanh/image/174251732/original)
Much better!

I couldn't stop there, of course. "While I'm at it..." kicked in...

https://pbase.com/bryanh/image/174251731/medium.jpg (https://pbase.com/bryanh/image/174251731/original)
A little PlastX application on the display, being careful to avoid the lettering.

After further cleaning of the face and knobs, and touching up some of the scratches on the case, this thing turned out pretty good.

https://pbase.com/bryanh/image/174251735/medium.jpg (https://pbase.com/bryanh/image/174251735/original)

I enjoy the sound. It's very clean and has pleeeenty of juice. The tuner is really really good, it pulls in more stations than I knew we had. The sound slightly lacks in the real bottom end foundational bass, at least with these speakers, compared to the CR-2020. I'm thinking it's <60hz stuff, and I'd guess this is mostly to do with the tone control shaping decisions engineered into the two different receivers.

However, I made a critical error in overlooking a UX detail. The FM preset memory recall is based on expecting up to a 2-digit number and pressing Enter (kind of like an old TV remote), instead of having A-B-C-etc preset "banks" and instantly switching stations at the press of a single button. Long term this will not do because it takes too long. :lol:

Foiled.

I'll hunt for something else in my spare time. Even after I find something else, I might keep this Denon around for a while as a spare. Maybe try it out in my living room sometime (a much better listening environment with more full range speakers) and see how it sounds. I do like the aesthetic of 80s to early 90s audio gear - reminds me of my childhood. :) And this appears to be a quality piece.

George

January 17th, 2024, 07:44 AM

FaultyMario

January 17th, 2024, 07:52 AM

Nice work, B!

CudaMan

January 17th, 2024, 12:59 PM

Do you keep it covered to keep dust out of it?

We have an old boom box in our garage and something even more low-end that I've always been meaning to post pictures of, but I'd hesitate to put good audio gear in my garage.

This replaced an old boom box and was $75 so I'm not too concerned about it, but your reasoning is exactly why I didn't keep my real vintage piece in the garage and instead replaced it with this "not quite vintage yet" unit. :)

Ultimately I'd like to have a shelf or something a couple inches above it, to reduce dust but still have plenty of ventilation. For now though, no cover. Maybe in summer when it's dry and dusty?

FaultyMario

January 25th, 2024, 06:43 PM

A little PlastX application on the display, being careful to avoid the lettering.

I've had it on my save-for-later shopping cart, but i never knew it could do these things. And it's on sale...

CudaMan

January 26th, 2024, 08:39 AM

It's great stuff to have around and very easy to use by hand.

To be totally clear, I only used it on the clear plastic cover over the display.

George

February 6th, 2024, 03:03 PM

Anyone have experience trying to plug old VCRs or pre-HDMI DVD players into modern TVs? I'm reading and learning but thought maybe one my fellow low, lower, or middle (but not high) class friends here might have some useful knowledge.

I've been doing some research online and it looks like something like this would work, except it will stretch a 4:3 signal into 16:9. I saw a review of this product in which the YouTuber used software on a computer to correct the aspect ratio, but I'd rather just plug-and-play to an HDTV if something like that is available that will display things in 4:3 without a lot of time, effort, and money.

https://www.microcenter.com/product/469974/qvs-composite-female-to-hdmi-female-a-v-converter

https://90a1c75758623581b3f8-5c119c3de181c9857fcb2784776b17ef.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.c om/469974_143909_01_front_comping.jpghttps://90a1c75758623581b3f8-5c119c3de181c9857fcb2784776b17ef.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.c om/469974_143909_02_front_comping.jpg

I'm not looking for a long-term "solution" (ugh, pardon the CorpSpeak), but I would like to go through all our old videotapes and see if there's anything worth keeping or converting. Also thought it might be fun to show my daughter the Star Trek videotapes of episodes I recorded after school in the early eighties - at least for some quick fast-forwarding to show her how things were then before I trash the whole lot of 'em. This was long before the episodes were available for sale anywhere, so I was pretty proud of my ST collection and my handwritten labels at the time. I can only imagine how bad the video and audio quality must be and, yet, how awesome the commercials from that era must be today!

I actually bought one of these (perhaps not exactly this, but very similar) that was supposed to work with our specific TV a while back. I've plugged a few different analog devices into it, but the TV hasn't recognized any signals at all from this thing. I figure it must fall into the Caveat Emptor category. Whaddya want for ten bucks anyway? :smh:

https://www.amazon.com/Cable-CCD-TRV68-CCD-TV98-CCD-TRV108-CCD-TRV218/dp/B00PCE3CMW/ref=asc_df_B00PCE3CMW/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=642070304292&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8916378723041814675&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028759&hvtargid=pla-1634523269710&psc=1&mcid=26a16178f9c937c5b961252e73e65b6a

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61f5h0Y5wvL._AC_SX466_.jpg

Yw-slayer

February 6th, 2024, 03:43 PM

VHS to computer capture card/adapter and then hdmi out to the TV.

George

February 7th, 2024, 06:36 AM

Thanks YW. That's what at least one guy on YouTube showed. My PC is perhaps ten years old now, but it has a bunch of A/V input on the back. I'll have to see what those are.

Wondering if I can power a TV from a PC with a very meager video card - a GTX745, if memory serves. We'll see. Thanks for the input.

Yw-slayer

February 7th, 2024, 03:57 PM

Pretty much any computer released in the last 10 years will be able to output a 720p or even 1080p signal to your TV. I'm sure your gtx745 will be fine as even 10+yo laptops with integrated graphics can do so. It's just a question of whether your gtx has an hdmi port (which it should).

Rare White Ape

February 7th, 2024, 04:32 PM

I've been doing some research online and it looks like something like this would work, except it will stretch a 4:3 signal into 16:9. I saw a review of this product in which the YouTuber used software on a computer to correct the aspect ratio, but I'd rather just plug-and-play to an HDTV if something like that is available that will display things in 4:3 without a lot of time, effort, and money.

Does your TV have an aspect ratio setting? Most widescreen TVs do. Just hit that button to find the correct size and away you go!

George

February 8th, 2024, 09:52 AM

^ Ooh! Excellent. It appears the TV (a Sony Bravia not more than a few years old) does have that option. Thank you! I'll try that first.

Rare White Ape

February 8th, 2024, 11:16 AM

Progress goes bonk!

George

February 9th, 2024, 12:09 PM

I bought the part I linked above yesterday but didn't get a chance to try it last night. I'll report back this weekend.

Pretty much any computer released in the last 10 years will be able to output a 720p or even 1080p signal to your TV. I'm sure your gtx745 will be fine as even 10+yo laptops with integrated graphics can do so. It's just a question of whether your gtx has an hdmi port (which it should).

Seems like I looked this up back in 2020 when GTA was free to download for a while. I had played GTA on an Xbox 360 on a TV and didn't like it as much on a 24" PC monitor. I looked up the possibility of using a TV as a PC monitor back then and thought all the online sources I found said it couldn't be done without the latest and greatest video card, or everyone would already be doing it. It made sense to me at the time. I'll have to give that a try also. I'm not home right now, but I think there are two HDMI outputs on the back of the PC - one is the "standard" one and there's another in the video card itself, which I assume is the better of the two.

Rare White Ape

February 9th, 2024, 01:37 PM

I’ve been using TVs as a PC monitor for over 15 years. It’s easy! You’ll want to use the output off the back of the graphics card.

The advice about needing the latest graphics cards only matters if you want to watch 4K HDR content off Netflix or whatever, as older devices can’t do high resolutions and colour output, nor can they do high frame rates such as 120 fps above 1080p. HDCP would potentially be an issue as well if your GPU is reeeeeaaally old, but again that’s only for watching streamed movies or DVD/BluRay discs.

If you’re planning to just browse or watch YouTube or play some older games you’re going to be absolutely fine. Just make sure you set your desktop resolution to match the TV’s native resolution (for example 1920x1080 or 1366x768 or 1280x720) for a sharp and clear image.

One other thing you may have to fix up is if the GPU under-scans the image size. Basically what this means is, back in the olden days TVs had a visible screen area that was smaller than the actual size of the display itself; the manufacturer would put a fancy bezel around them. To allow for this almost every device would make the image output smaller than the maximum size, and this is called an under-scan. The opposite, where the image is larger, is called over-scan. If the image matches the screen size 1:1 it’s called a just-scan, or sometimes true-scan.

If you set everything correctly but still have a 1” black border around the whole frame, it’s probably under-scanning to allow for the TV’s actual viewable area. If this happens, you’ll need to go into your GPU’s settings and look for under/over-scan, or something like TV output safe zone. You might have to Google it for your specific GPU.