Small used car shopping

[balki]

Parking is an issue and I rarely use more than two seats so I'm looking to downgrade. The car will have 10-20 short trips (1-5 miles) a week, will rarely see 40+ mph
First two cars to come to mind (with say a sub 5k USD budget) are the Fit and Smart Fortwo (2009-2012)

Fit: can seat 4-5 people or two and a bunch of cargo area. Honda reliability and available in a manual gearbox
Smart: can park just about anywhere, less expensive, RR-layout
??? the other small cars I've come across are less space efficient and more expense then the Fit, but I've haven't look into all of then

Is the Smart anything like a Benz (or any other used German car)? Expensive upkeep/parts/labor/failing electro-gizmos?
Thoughts, suggestions, Smart jokes

[Yw-slayer]

Bicycle?

[Kchrpm]

Would a little electric thing, like a Chevy Spark EV, be doable? I presume charging at home would not be possible.

[novicius]

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/6156866997.html
https://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/6159591991.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/6133817999.html

[Phil_SS]

Holy depreciation batman!

And, IMO, a Smart is a useless car in America. You can get a bigger car for the same price that will be much much better in all aspects.

[novicius]

Yeah for that money & miles, that makes the 500 a serious fun car contender. :up: :up:

[Alan P]

Would a little electric thing, like a Chevy Spark EV, be doable? I presume charging at home would not be possible.

I would have thought a proper electric car would have been ideal for this sort of usage? Money may be an issue I guess. Honda Insight? CR-Z?

[Kchrpm]

When your only parking is on the street, a short-range, slow charge electric car becomes a liability.

[thesameguy]

Unless you happen to live in a place that has curb-side charging you're hosed in that situation.

I like the 500 in general and as a used buy it's pretty amazing. Don't get a 2012 - the '13s (and it may be late '13s) are much improved... just check out the NHTSA ratings. For this application, a '13+ Fiat would get my vote.

[balki]

An EV with a sub 100km range would be acceptable if I could charge it even once a week (public street parking only)

Phil, I used to think the same, why not pay an extra $1k for a car with twice the utility and same mpg rating, but the parking advantage is a big enough deal in certain parts of this country to make up for its perceived ridiculousness.

YW, have stuff to carry on a weekly basis (a bicycle would not have taken additional time for most of the trips and would have been healthier)

Novi, sweet. Neglected the 500, will look into it.

[thesameguy]

If you are really doing 10-100 miles a week at less than 40+ mph a 500e charged once a week might work out. We could get about 109 miles of sub-40mph driving in ideal spring weather. In the winter with the heater on knock off about 40% (though using the seat heaters is a great alternative) and in the summer with the AC on knock off about 15%. The 500e will do 40a charging, so you can fully charge one in four hours with a regular Level II charger. Note that's 24 hours with a 120v/15a Level I.

Although inexpensive operation and maintenance is a big plus, you're probably talking $12k for a nice used '13 500e vs. $5k for a nice used 500. $7k buys a lot of gas.

Do expect typical Italian/Chrysler quality control. Don't expect $0 in maintenance. My bet is that mile for mile, it's still cheaper than a Smart.

Have you considered something truly wretched like a Mirage?

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/6156744833.html

or iQ

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/6133918912.html

I think I'd still lean towards the Fiat - it's probably safer and probably more fun to drive. Maybe not more reliable.

[Cam]

Bicycle?
Bicycle.

[novicius]

https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/6133519611.html

:lol:

[Yw-slayer]

YW, have stuff to carry on a weekly basis (a bicycle would not have taken additional time for most of the trips and would have been healthier)

LOTS of stuff? Or just "stuff"?

I mean, if it's a ton of folders, yeah, i can understand that. But if you live in a flat area and you need to carry "stuff", it'll be fine.

[Rare White Ape]

Did you guys get the Ford Fiesta circa-2007-2008, specifically the XR4 model?

It's cool and a little bit chavalicious. If they're available I'd recommend either the blue or the red with the cobra stripes over the top.

[Random]

Did you guys get the Ford Fiesta circa-2007-2008, specifically the XR4 model?

It's cool and a little bit chavalicious. If they're available I'd recommend either the blue or the red with the cobra stripes over the top.

We got the latest Fiesta starting in 2010 as a MY2011 car.

[Rare White Ape]

So you missed out on the earlier one? That's a bummer. They've got great rally car styling.

[balki]

YW, I could doconomics it and bring a little each weekday but it's not an option on the weekend (intend for it to be an only car), plus I carpool 3-4x a week (that's optional)

tsg, Mirage? Didn't even know they still existed here. I found only one for sale, looks inoffensive
I've looked into the iQ, but never was able to find an example that was worth it
Juicing up an EV outside a Tesla Supercharger is not an option; no charging at home or work

No 2nd gen Honda Fit input?
Leaning towards the Fiat more and more; 'Holy depreciation' indeed, plus the owners seem to have taken care of them better than the Fits here (though I guess the Fit doesn't need nearly as much care)
How does the US version of the Fiat 500 weigh 400lbs more than the European one? Do we have 500ci engines?

[Random]

Around here the issue is finding a used Fit without a salvage title. Other than that, great little cars, imo.

[Yw-slayer]

Yeah, the Fit/Jazz isn't a bad car for those purposes. Either that or used Corolla.

[thesameguy]

A decent Fit around here will cost a few grand more than the 500 - I'm betting that's generally true. I'd bet that Fit will probably have higher mileage, and the Fiat will probably have been treated better. Obviously if you need more space you gotta get a Fit, but if you can fit your situation into the Fiat why spend the extra?

[Godson]

Good to know the Fiat are getting dumb cheap

[balki]

tsg, forgot to touch on what shocked me most: -15% efficiency for A/C use in the 500e sounds about right (was expecting -10%) but the heater is shocking! -40% is obscene.
Regardless, gas is a little cheaper here and electricity is 3x as much so the premium for the 500e (not as expensive here; sub $8k for sub 40k mile 500e) is not worth it even if charging was available.

Fits are a couple grand more for more mileage if I limit it to 2012-2013, but there occasionally is an earlier 2nd gen for $3-4k which is on par with a +100k mile Fiat. Then there's a 11k mile Fit for $7k, not sure if I'm missing something (https://longisland.craigslist.org/ctd/6151356382.html)

YW, the Toyota Corolla is quite a bit more expensive than the Fit and has less interior space while being a foot longer, it's a big no-go. The only reason I'm seriously looking into the Fit is because I can justify the larger footprint vs the Fiat/Smart with the additional practicality of the SUV sized cargo (and what I'm assuming is better reliability and low-cost maintenance).

[thesameguy]

tsg, forgot to touch on what shocked me most: -15% efficiency for A/C use in the 500e sounds about right (was expecting -10%) but the heater is shocking! -40% is obscene.
Regardless, gas is a little cheaper here and electricity is 3x as much so the premium for the 500e (not as expensive here; sub $8k for sub 40k mile 500e) is not worth it even if charging was available.

ICE cars make heat as a byproduct, so it's free. The only way you make heat in an electric car is with a filament and that takes a lot of current. That combined with inefficiencies inherent in cold batteries, and you take a big hit. We pretty much never used the heat. Seat heaters more or less eliminate that loss and always worked fine to keep us warm, even went it was literally freezing out.

[balki]

Forgot about the cold battery inefficiencies (then again heat kills batteries as well)
I did think that there was a decent amount of heat produced by EVs, do they not need active cooling of some sort?

[thesameguy]

They do have active cooling, but it's not nearly enough to make 200 degree heat come out of a vent. :)

[balki]

I feel like I should know the answer to this (carlo?), but...
what about the mini (https://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/cto/6104008735.html)?

[Jason]

If it's a commuter car, you really can't go wrong with a Honda Fit, imo. They are incredibly practical, and afaik are rock solid.

[balki]

The Fit is the only car I'd consider buying new, but the resale value hurts it when looking for a used example.
For $4-5k I get a 10 year old Fit with well over 100k miles, I can nearly halve this last two #s with a Fiat. The Fiat is also two feet shorter, nearly doubling the amount of parking spots i can fit in (4x with the Smart)
Still, the Fit is very much on my radar

[FaultyMario]

I'd say Ignis but I think you guys hate freedom.

[Yw-slayer]

Ah, yes, the Swift is a great car.

[FaultyMario]

The Ignis is a Swift?

Never would have guessed it, it looks much smaller!

[novicius]

I feel like I should know the answer to this (carlo?), but...
what about the mini (https://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/cto/6104008735.html)?
There's no mileage listed so that's probably in the 150-200K+ ballpark.

R53 MINIs are loveable but thrashy & harsh, generally speaking. They ride hard even without runflat tires and give no protection to potholes. Winter performance on fresh Blizzaks is still largely crap. :lol:

In addition the first gen MINIs would allow their BCM (Body Control Modules) to get corroded (BMW later put a cover on them for the R56). This results in wonky behavior like power window & lock switches working erratically or not at all.

The Eaton superchargers are sealed units too and were not designed to be serviced. Combine that with plastic water pump gears inside and they don't last much beyond 150K miles, if that.

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m394/iluvsa66/car5.jpg

But they are absolutely lovable & utilitarian cars. Hatchback opening is very decent. Seats are supportive if weak on the side bolstering -- not so great if you're Bruce-Lee-fit like Ross but for a big guy like me it was great to not be pinched. I had a B&M short-shift kit in mine and a very decent cat-back -- and that's it. The car was a weapon. :twisted: :up:

[balki]

Fit obtained.
10 years old, +220k miles, lots of soot (apparently people still smoke these days).
Hasn't provided the parking boon I had hoped for (the extra foot and half over the Fiat 500 turns out to be quite big), but the seating and cargo area make it suitable for 4 full-size adults and Costco trips (max capacity is only 800lbs)
The 1.5L has a respectable amount of low end for it's size, just never comes to life up top. Still, 109hp is plenty of power if you know what your doing (caught up with a 707hp Hellcat, with the help of some high speed bumps)

Until electric cars become cost competitive I feel that this should be the design that cars in the next 20 years should have been taking; efficient use of size and power, inexpensive and simple but well engineered, low maintenance cost ...
It might be the most responsive car I've driven (just had a stock RX-8 and a modified SW11/MK1.5 MR2); hides it's 2500lb weight well. Still suffers from being fwd, but it's only obvious when accelerating. Overall best combination of practicality without being boring that I've owned.