Bioware's Anthem

[novicius]

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2425&stc=1

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2426&stc=1

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2427&stc=1

Oh Boy, 'Anthem' Is A Destiny-Like 'Ten-Year Journey' For EA (https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/06/21/oh-boy-anthem-is-a-destiny-like-ten-year-journey-for-ea/#580b1a685005)


EA’s EVP Patrick Söderlund spoke with Microsoft’s Major Nelsen during one of E3’s overlooked livestreams, and spelled out that Anthem is a “ten-year journey” for BioWare and EA, echoing the phrasing of the Bungie/Activision deal from years past which will be entering Year Four when Destiny 2 is released this fall.

Söderlund said that Anthem has been in development for four years already, and the ten years starts when the game is released. That's supposed to be 2018, but knowing how these projects go, may end up being 2019.

::

But it’s eye-rolling in that it assumes massive success, which is far from a sure thing. Yes, what was shown at E3 looked great, and there’s a lot of talent working on Anthem.

Yet BioWare has had their share of missteps in the past, the initial rollout of SWTOR which was far from the WoW-killer it was supposed to be, the backlash of Dragon Age 2 and development issues with Inquisition, and most recently, the poor reception of Mass Effect Andromeda, which seemed like it was going to be another beloved game in the franchise rather than a cautionary tale.

One thing I hope Anthem learns from Destiny is that it decides what type of game it’s going to be up front.

I think Destiny has rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way, as many assumed the game was going to be a ten-year journey like you see in an MMO like World of Warcraft, but the sequel forcing players to ditch their gear and even paid-for items has meant that it’s a much more traditional release.

That’s not what the “ten-year plan” signaled to many at the outset, and I think EA would be wise to explain exactly how Anthem is going to work going forward. Will this be like Destiny and The Division, games with DLC and hard cuts between sequels, or an ongoing experience where your character (and gear) will live on forever like an MMO?
:popcorn:

[Kchrpm]

Regardless of the MMO trappings, I just want this to be a high quality Iron Man simulator.

[Jason]

Anthem is by the team that's games get 80+ Metacritic scores (at least for their DA and ME games), I'm not worried about some click bait Forbes article. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edmonton: DA and original ME trilogy (and Anthem)
Austin: SWTOR
Montreal: ME: Andromeda

The only game of the above that was actually reviewed "poorly", at least according to Wiki, is ME:A.

[novicius]

All online articles are clickbait in this day & age, what does that even mean?? :rolleyes:

Tassi still asks a very relevant question: is this "ten-year-plan" just ten years of sequels that we're restarting our characters in, or are we building characters that will be constantly enhanced over the next ten years?

[21Kid]

8==D

I'll reserve more ='s until it lives up to the hype.

[Kchrpm]

Tassi still asks a very relevant question: is this "ten-year-plan" just ten years of sequels that we're restarting our characters in, or are we building characters that will be constantly enhanced over the next ten years?

It's just a buzzword stolen from Bungie that will be used in exactly the same way. Anthem will release in 2018/9, paid DLC will release every 3-6 months afterwards, Anthem 2 will come out two years later and mostly reset things. There's no way they'll get the engine "perfect" in the first release, they'll have things to fix that the market will be ecstatic to pay another $60-$100 for, and resetting their characters just means more opportunity for loot.

If it turns out to be anything other than the same normal cycle that every other major video game IP is on right now, I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I'm interested in the game regardless, and IMO no one should be tying their interest or excitement to anything but a 2 year cycle of resetting sequels.

[novicius]

Eh, that really isn't the best financial model. World-building is expensive obviously -- stretching out your world for as many years as possible is what Bungie should have done.

Grand Theft Auto Online (incept date: 10/1/2013). Regular updates & DLC in a consistent world = a very profitable business model.

::

This brings me back to my original comment from the E3 thread: I really don't have a specific desire about what the action is like, sell me on the depth & detail of the open game world. Hell, Anthem is already very Destiny-like: jetting around an open world with no load times, random enemy encounters, drop-in joins, pre-scripted events, and picking up loot. We just need to see the Inventory screens at this point, how things are broken down and what you can do with the bits.

So I'm a flying dog-legged Iron Man? Sure. Broomsticks? Yep. Spacemagic? Ok fine whatevs. But there had better be dozens upon dozens of multiple-objective missions, as well as safe areas where we move amongst the people we're protecting. Destiny 2 is (allegedly) doing this, here's hoping that Anthem does too. :toast:

This guy gets it -- plus some good gameplay video that I haven't seen before:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPvSDeNNkfU

[Kchrpm]

Eh, that really isn't the best financial model. World-building is expensive obviously -- stretching out your world for as many years as possible is what Bungie should have done.

Grand Theft Auto Online (incept date: 10/1/2013). Regular updates & DLC in a consistent world = a very profitable business model.

I don't think it's the best model, I think it's the one we're going to get.

GTA Online is somewhat different, in a few ways.

1) There *has* been a sequel, effectively with a new engine, just not a new world. It happened when they transitioned from 360/PS3 to XBone/PS4/PC. People had to re-buy the game to continue getting new content. Destiny was already on the new consoles when you got it, so there hasn't been a real "mandatory" upgrade cycle yet.

2) All of GTA's DLC is free, but actually having access to it requires ridiculous amounts of in-game currency, which leads to lots of people spending money on microtransactions for useful in-game content. A quick search makes it seem like microtransactions are only used to purchase emotes in Destiny, not for any gameplay functionality.

3) GTA's gameplay is built around the idea of chaos, not quality. It doesn't matter that there are flaws in the way things work, that the engine handles things in a clunky way, that it is slow to do this or that, because that's expected. The game doesn't aspire to actually be excellent at any elements of gameplay, so improving those gameplay elements isn't really important. It can get away with being kind of shitty, because it's so chaotic. Destiny doesn't have that luxury, and neither will Anthem.

---------

But this just gets back to the idea of what we want from this game, and what we wanted from Destiny, and Mass Effect, and etc. I don't really care about the open world, or world building, or hunting for loot, or any of the other stuff that really excites people about this genre. So while I'm fine with it just being another action game, I can fully understand why you want more.

[novicius]

Understood, I'm not trying to put words into your mouth -- just saying that a large, in-depth persistent world can also be a major moneymaker. :up:



1) There *has* been a sequel, effectively with a new engine, just not a new world. It happened when they transitioned from 360/PS3 to XBone/PS4/PC. People had to re-buy the game to continue getting new content. Destiny was already on the new consoles when you got it, so there hasn't been a real "mandatory" upgrade cycle yet.
Yes technically there was a re-buy of GTA V but we were able to keep all of our characters & gear which speaks to Tassi's real point: gamers aren't grumbling that they have to buy Destiny 2, they're grumbling because all their swag from the past 3.5 years is gone instead of being built-up and/or obsoleted by raising Light Levels again.

[Kchrpm]

I hadn't heard anyone complain about losing their stuff in Destiny (which surprised me), but I also didn't go looking. I just saw articles about it that were mostly understanding, I guess because it's normal in the action-game space to reset your character.

Though, I've never played Mass Effect, did you lose all your...whatever in Mass Effect? I thought the story/relationship choices you made held over, I never considered what happened to your loot and levels.


just saying that a large, in-depth persistent world can also be a major moneymaker. :up:

Only if there's a monthly fee for continued access, or the equivalent in the form of nearly necessary microtransactions for gameplay content.

[novicius]

Okay, you're right.

[21Kid]

:lol:

[Alan P]

Graphically games have now reached a point where the only real improvements are to be made in Framerate and resolution. To me, games are now at a point where the same game could easily be playable for 5 or 6 years without issue, if Developers are willing to support it, knowing that they won't be able to get a large influx of cash on release day. They could pull a Destiny, which, from what I remember, they announced a big update but the only way to get it was to essentially 're-purchase' the full game. People bitched but bought it anyway.
Alternatively the expansions are only buyable individually and there's no 'Season pass'. If the content is there I'd be happy to pay £20-£30 each year for a content expansion which is similar in size and content to the original game itself, ideally 50-70% of the content yearly.

[Kchrpm]

There's more for a game engine to add than just prettier graphics, though, like switching from a loading model to a streaming model, more/better physics, etc. That's stuff that's hard to patch in to a current game, I'd think, and makes a sequel a viable upgrade.

[novicius]

BioWare’s Anthem: Developer Details The Game’s Story, “Very Much Like Star Wars And Marvel” (http://gamingbolt.com/biowares-anthem-developer-details-the-games-story-very-much-like-star-wars-and-marvel)


Recently in an interview with CBC Radio, BioWare general manager Aaryn Flynn spoke about the game’s story and setting, likening it to Star Wars and the Marvel Cinematic Universe, saying that while Mass Effect was a more grounded science fiction story, Anthem is more of “science-fantasy”.

“The story is that you are part of humanity, and you’re a member of a group called the “Freelancers”, who are out there to protect and save humanity on an alien planet far away,” Flynn said. “It’s in a genre we call “science-fantasy”, it’s very much like Star Wars, very much like the Marvel universe where you see a lot of amazing things happening but we don’t worry too much about why they’re happening or how they’re happening, the science of it."

"Mass Effect is more of a real hardcore science-fiction IP, this one is much more about just having fun in a game world that is lush and exotic and really sucks you in.”
So maybe there's gonna be Force powers integrated into this? Are there going to be "Good" and "Evil" aspects that BioWare is known for? #spacemagic

[novicius]

Mass Effect And KOTOR's Drew Karpyshyn Is Writing BioWare's 'Anthem' (https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/06/14/mass-effect-and-kotors-drew-karpyshyn-is-writing-biowares-anthem/#416050b9178e)


However it's been confirmed that beloved Mass Effect 1+2 and KOTOR writer Drew Karpyshyn is working on Anthem, which may put a lot of minds at ease.

Karpyshyn was the lead writer on some of BioWare's best-written games, and many blamed the studio's recent declines in that area on his departure in 2012. He returned to BioWare to work on SW:TOR content after that in 2015 but he's confirmed that he's now working on Anthem.
Now has he been working on the story since 2015ish... or is he a script doctor trying to punch up a clichéd gaming plot? :lol:

[Kchrpm]

"What are the two biggest media franchises for 18-49 males right now?"
"Star Wars and Marvel."
"Tell them we're like that."

But seriously, the gameplay trailer/demo did seem Rogue One like in its initial setting, followed by Iron Man Bros gameplay, so that makes sense. Here's hoping they pull it off.

[novicius]

Yep -- maybe mentioning Avatar in the same breath might give too much away. :lol: #goingnative

[Jason]

As long as there's some actual plot and stories to the core missions, and not just filler 'beat these foes, collect this item' missions, I'll be pretty happy :)

[novicius]

Oh yeah, definitely -- if BioWare launches Anthem with a Vanilla Destiny-level of empty blandness and RNG-fueled rewards, the offices will get stormed and devs will be lynched (via the comments sections everywhere :lol:).

ME:A is buggy AF; I sure hope the Anthem devs listen to their QA teams this time around. I bet 2018 is coming all too soon for those guys... :twisted:

[Cam]

"What are the two biggest media franchises for 18-49 males right now?"
"Star Wars and Marvel."
"Tell them we're like that."

:lol::up:

[Kchrpm]

ME:A is buggy AF; I sure hope the Anthem devs listen to their QA teams this time around. I bet 2018 is coming all too soon for those guys... :twisted:

Jason and I were reading up on that, they had a B-team in a different location doing all the heavy lifting on ME:A, including modifying Frostbite to do RPG stuff, which it did not want to do. That's why the facial animations and such went to shit, Frostbite had zero support for it and the new team couldn't get it in and get it right.

Anthem is being handled by the A-Team of the past Mass Effects. EA figured Mass Effect had enough momentum and tribal knowledge that it didn't need the team (or apparently the engine) to keep the quality high, but apparently they were wrong.

All that being said, I agree, I hope spit, shine, polish, fit, finish, and other car analogies are all properly applied.

[novicius]

Yeah because as of right now BioWare is trying to build a title based on lively awesome action (shooting) that you'd want to repeat for 1,000 hours -- and when have they ever built a game like that??

Transcript of the interview is up on Reddit btw. (https://www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/6j0839/transcription_of_the_edmontom_am_interview_with/)

[Phil_SS]

Still 3rd person? Pass......

But it looks great.

[novicius]

AHHHHHH.... but it'll be first-person POV when you're in the Tower. :lol: #notjoking

[Rare White Ape]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHo04qOae0Q

[novicius]

Truth! :lol: :up:

::

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2434&stc=1


Hunters? :lol:

Anthem comes out a year after Destiny 2 drops so 75-90% of their audience are going to be D2 players anyway.

If it's good then we'll play both. If it's another The Division then there'll be a bounce and people will go back to D2 (which is what I think will happen).

Either way, D2 is life. #shrug

[Kchrpm]

Oh man, that video is great :)

[novicius]

Rumor has it that some fresh gameplay video will be released during Gamescom 2017 (starting Aug. 22nd). :up:

[novicius]

BioWare general manager, Anthem director Aaryn Flynn steps down (https://www.polygon.com/2017/7/18/15990694/bioware-general-manager-anthem-director-aaryn-flynn-steps-down-casey-hudson)

Destiny isn't the only major game to get a reboot.

[GreatScawt]

Casey Hudson. :up: Very good news.

[novicius]

BioWare veteran Corey Gaspur, lead designer on Anthem, has died. (http://www.pcgamer.com/bioware-veteran-corey-gaspur-lead-designer-on-anthem-has-died/) :(


BioWare has announced that Corey Gaspur, a longtime designer at the studio whose credits include Mass Effect 2 and 3, and the upcoming online shooter Anthem, has died.

Gaspur was with BioWare for more than nine years, during which he worked as a gameplay/level designer on Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect 2, and its DLC. He served as the lead combat designer on Mass Effect 3, and was working on Anthem as the lead gameplay designer.

His LinkedIn profile also lists consultation credits on Dragon Age: Inquisition, Star Wars Battlefront, Mirror's Edge, and Mass Effect: Andromeda.

"Corey was a talented designer and an even better person. We offer our condolences to Corey’s family and everyone that knew him," BioWare wrote. "We will miss you."

[Cam]

:(

[Yw-slayer]

Wtf?

[novicius]

BioWare's Anthem game gets beta CONFIRMED - Latest on PS4, Xbox One X, PC’s stunning RPG (http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/861821/Anthem-game-beta-PS4-Xbox-One-X-Bioware-release-date)


BioWare’s Jonathan Warner was asked by a fan if Anthem would be getting a beta period like Mass Effect: Andromeda, Wccftech reported.

Warner replied: “Yeah we'll have a beta! #PrepareForAdventure”.

Speaking about a Anthem beta release date, he added: “Remember, we are still a distance out. Too soon for details but will provide more when the time is right.”

It’s unclear whether the Anthem beta period will be an open beta or a closed beta.
:up: :up:

[Rare White Ape]

At E3 EA showed off some gameplay footage of Anthem, a truncated version of a longer gameplay demo that was only shown behind closed doors. But today they've released the longer version of the demo for all to see:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-nKttWT7JM

I think the game is looking great, however it's a multiplayer-focused shooter from EA so it's got red flags waving for me. Although, if it was set a long time ago in a galaxy far away and called Star Wars: Robot Suit Shooty RPG, I'd be all over it like mud on a pig.

As a premise, and as a game, it's just so generic, so 2018. It reminds me of both Halo and Destiny, which is no small feat. I'm not interested. And yet, I watch with great interest...

[Cam]

I am excited yet aprehensive about this game as well. EA ruined Mass Effect, after all... :|

[Jason]

I absolutely love the concept, but yeah... it's EA, so I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Looking at the suit types shown, I'm leaning towards Storm... (I tend to like buff/debuff/status style of characters when given a chance) I assume Ranger is more of a standard attacker, and Colossus is more of a tank?

[Kchrpm]

To be fair, they ruined Mass Effect by giving it to a different team/company so that the Mass Effect team could make Anthem.

[Alan P]

While it looks very polished it all seems, well, a bit basic? Nothing immediately jumps out st me as being that different from any other third person game at the moment. Interested but not yet excited.

[Cam]

To be fair, they ruined Mass Effect by giving it to a different team/company so that the Mass Effect team could make Anthem.
No, they ruined it by shitting out an inferior product that was so riddled with bugs (some game-breaking) it was nearly unplayable.

[Rare White Ape]

They gave it to a support developer as their first full title and released it before it was complete, in time for financial year reporting. Got it out the door with a boot, then cut their losses, then absorbed the developer into other teams. It would’ve been better to release the game a year later, but the fiscal reports wouldn’t have looked as good.

A small part in of me wants Anthem to fail… hard. So much so that EA is devalued to the point that it gets bought up by Microsoft :lol: Or better yet, BioWare is sold to MS and they get to make great exclusives for MS platforms like Xbox and Win10. That would be the romantic option.

But I don’t contain that much hate. I hope Anthem proves the haters wrong and shows that EA has learned that it can make a game that’s free of anti-consumer bullshit or tied to overly demanding live services that split the player base, a-la GTA Online, etc.

[Kchrpm]

https://anthemuniverse.com/articles/mark-darrahs-amaaaa-twitch-summary/


Are there swords?
We’re not talking about Interceptor and Storm right now 😉
Giggity.


Will there be cloaking?
We will not be talking about Storm or Interceptor at this time 😉
Interesting...

[Rare White Ape]

Plenty of new info here, covering the integration (shoe-horning?) of single player narrative into a multiplayer game.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-09-01-how-anthem-puts-a-single-player-story-in-a-multiplayer-game

Plus, a new trailer!


https://youtu.be/lPBUlFOhFks

[Rare White Ape]

Nice looking Destiny-esque game which everyone’s excited about despite being published by EA gets new trailer featuring RTX and DLSS integration from Nvidia.

I hear there’s an open beta coming soon as well.


https://youtu.be/yJo19lIZWJY

[Blerpa]

Looks sweet, too bad is third person only.

[Jason]

I'm still cautiously optimistic, probably will play as a Storm if I end up with it :up:

[Alan P]

Apparently a 'VIP' beta test coming at the end of the month for Origin Access Premier. Which I have. Will let you know my impressions.

[Rare White Ape]

In other news, water is wet:

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2019/01/unsurprisingly-anthems-upcoming-demo-will-be-different-from-the-final-release/

But hey, a demo. Apparently Orgin subscribers have three codes they can give out to their friends to join this weekend’s demo. Everyone else can play next weekend.

[Rare White Ape]

Don’t forget the demo.

I’ve been playing it today. It’s interesting. The mission structure is alright, but I suppose that’s old news if you’re a Destiny player.

The graphics are jank though. I know it’s not a final build, but it looks nowhere near as lush as the original trailer we got in 2017. Plus I’m on a PS4 Pro and the frame rate tanks and stutters quite a lot, so I’ve dropped it down to 1080p to smooth it out and reach 30fps. It’s much nicer to play that way.

[Rare White Ape]

Oh, and loading takes forever.

I hope that’s all fixed up in the v1.0 builds.

[Cam]

I played the demo a bit last night. Initial impressions:

BioWare: "What now, boss?"
EA: "Make a game like Destiny, but better."
BioWare: "How do you expect us to do that?"
EA: "Just copy Destiny and then do your BioWare thing... you know, work your magic. BUT NO GAY STUFF."
BioWare: "But we have this idea for a game..."
EA: "COPY DESTINY."
BioWare: "Uh, OK."

:assclown:

[Kchrpm]

I spent some time playing the demo today as well, and while I like some of the ideas, the limitations put in for the sake of limiting power and balancing, along with the realities of this type of game, just make me lose interest in what I know will expected to be a major time investment.

- Why can't you just fly infinitely? What's the point of making the player land for a few seconds or fly through a waterfall before continuing to fly? I can understand a status effect preventing flight, but when we're just travelling to the next mission/McGuffin, why bother?
- The Colossus is supposed to be the damage absorbing tank, with the highest health pool and a default special that forces all enemies to fire on it. But it doesn't have regenerating health. The only way to heal is from picking up health dropped from enemies, which does you no good when fighting large enemies that can destroy your entire health bar in a few seconds but who can't be killed easily.
- Server drops or disconnects have ruined multiple missions and stronghold attempts for me. The McGuffin hunts and gameplay are not compelling enough for me to want to do them yet again

I've never bought a Destiny game, and I don't see myself buying Anthem, either.

[Rare White Ape]

I unlocked the interceptor, because it has a toight booty. It’s on-the-ground melee attacks are very OP compared to just about everything the ranger can do. Plus I picked up extra armour, so I can one-man a lot of the odd little enclaves scattered around the map.

Will I buy it?

If it was a straightforward story-heavy Shooty McBooty game like Halo I would. I could even stand the requirement to be co-op.

But as a live service game, it’s in hard pass territory.

[Cam]

Yeah, I'll wait for the reviews of the actual game before buying.

[Rare White Ape]

The minute-by-minute gunplay is pretty good though. I enjoy travelling with a squad to a waypoint, killing all the goons, then booking it outta there when you need to move on. I guess the previously mentioned flying restriction is there to encourage players to actually spend time on the ground too, since there are a lot of things to find, loot, and scavenge laying about the place. But not once have I come across an underwater section just ready to travel through our in the open areas.

I was one of the few people I noticed that had played with the loadout and had a secondary weapon equipped. I chose a long arm to complement my assault rifle, so I was popping critical hits for days. It was great! Bullet sponge enemies are a common sight though. They get old pretty fast, unless you have a squad buddy that knows to have one person get in behind and attack weak points, etc, while the others ping off the front and draw attention.

[Kchrpm]

Finally got to finish the stronghold. The final boss is such a bore. Just circle the arena and shoot everything until it dies. I've been spoiled by Zelda dungeons/bosses, I guess, because these levels and bosses are so uninteresting.

[Jason]

I feel like I'm the only person on the planet that really enjoyed the demo... Maybe because I don't have enough experience with similar games? Also, I only got disconnected once, and most of my tech issues were at the beginning when XBL was down.

Anyways, onto my thoughts:

Pros:

Beautiful environment, well done graphics in general. I'm excited to explore this space.
Enemy variety presents some good challenges, and if you aren't leveled up, or playing on higher difficulty, requires good teamwork
Enjoying the controls quite a bit
Being various versions of Iron Man is neat!
Unlike Keith, I actually enjoy limits. So I think managing cooling in terms of flying is a fun element to keep in mind when playing. Also I've heard that mods you unlock as you play can basically make you fly forever. For example, in the Demo I was using a Storm, and I had a 20% flight duration mod, so when I was hovering, I could stay hovering for a very long time.



Cons:

Enemy variety could use a boost
Javelin capabilities could use more variety, but I have a feeling that might be coming down the line. For example, Storm seems like it should be a Mage type/crowd control. Ability 1 has the option for a couple AOE attacks, but Ability 2 seems to just be a solo attack, both have status effects which are in line with what I'd think it should be... I think there should be an extra weapon/ability that is status heavy with little to no/damage. For example maybe the Storm 2 could have access to status weapons, like say "Ice Grenade Launcher - slows enemies AOE" or "Oil Slick Grenade - slows enemies/makes more susceptible to fire damage" or "Beacon Lure - sets an area that enemies will be drawn to". It'd help make the Storm feel like a better team player vs just laying down explosions and long distance gunfire from a distance. I'm sure Colossus and Interceptor could use more melee/defense options. And Ranger could use something as well. My hope/assumption is that this is something they'll be adding in the future.
The map/compass system is bad. You can't select a way point on the map and have it show up in your compass. The compass doesn't show your squadmates until you get close to them, so it's hard to find someone on the other side of the map. There's a lot of small things they could do to improve that experience.


General observation, though... this is way more fun with "friends", or at least people you're in contact with verbally. For example, Willis and I did the stronghold and had a hell of a time because we were either underleveled or it was on a harder level than we intended... our whole squad died a lot. But we were able to talk strategy during the boss fight and coordinate our efforts (ie shields, boosts, combos, etc) to get things done.


So, even with the cons, I had a really fun time. It's MMOlite to me, and some of the elements of control reminds me of City of Heroes (I mainly played as a hovering "Controller" who laid down status effects and AOE attacks to support a team), so I'm pretty excited to have something roughly along those lines again. I definitely understand why people are cool on their reception to the demo, it's not the "OMG best game ever" as it's kinda hyped to be. And frankly EA/Bioware don't exactly have a good track record lately.

I was weak, and pre-ordered, which is something I don't often do with games. :up:

[Cam]

Oh, I am interested. I really want it to be great, but yeah... EA has a bad rep right now. Plus, it is so remarkably Destiny-like that I am nervous to pull the trigger on it until I see some legit reviews of the final game. Of course, if several of my friends are playing it, I may succumb to peer pressure. :lol:

[JSGeneral]

You can hear the disappointment in this excellent reviewer's voice increase more and more as the video goes on...


https://youtu.be/fhe76p6Tiro

[Cam]

I almost did not watch it because it's 45 minutes long. Savage.

Looking at Metacritic, it is getting overall mixed reviews. :(

[Blerpa]

So far the TL;DR: is "well, cute, unoriginal, with a blander setting than Destiny. Eventually: boring, aside from doing the Ironman whooshes".

[GreatScawt]

And apparently a big complaint is loading screens. Kinda surprising to hear for a title now.

[Kchrpm]

The fact that changing your weapons is sandwiched in between two loading screens is kind of crazy.

[Kchrpm]

Plus you have to go through exiting the gameplay world, getting all of your loot/rankings, loading the story world, and then load the gameplay world again after the weapon change sandwich.

[21Kid]

46 minutes?!? Is there a TLDR version?

[Rare White Ape]

That’s just part 1 of 2!

I’ve watched 15 minutes. So far it’s explaining how this is a wasted opportunity by using BioWare to make a facsimile of a loot shooter that somehow doesn’t advance the genre in any meaningful way, and doesn’t take advantage of the developer’s talents.

[Jason]

I've been playing the early access this week since I had a couple days at home, and it's better than the demo, and I'm still really enjoying it.

My biggest gripes are relatively small QoL changes (things like more customizable HUD so that I can see things better), and some of the areas on the map being behind loading screens. For the most part the freemode is seamless, but if you enter into a cave, you get a loading screen sadly.

The gameplay, imo, is a lot of fun. It might be a thing that's better with friends, I don't know. I'm honestly surprised about the overwhelming negativity about the game, but then again, I don't have much to compare it to other than my long past MMO experiences.

[Yw-slayer]

I'll skip this, given that I've played Apex Legends twice and (bought and installed and) never played Titanfall 2.

I'll wait for the next Madd Effect, and/or start playing whatever Dragon Age game it was that I recently bought in a sale.

[Jason]

Did anyone else buy the game, or am I alone in this?

So far I've unlocked a Storm (mage) and Colossus (tank) because those are most similar to what I've played in various MMOs, and they are enjoyable for me. Storm allows me to stay above the field and pick people off, lay down AoEs, or shields. Colossus, I just played with today, and it's a lot of fun after you get some decent armor components. Basically feel like the juggernaut running into the enemies and going full melee. The grenades and autocannons are cool and all, but nothing beats the sensation of squashing minions, and going toe to toe with big alien monsters like the damned Hulkbuster.

Ran into a few annoying loading issues as has been discussed when testing out the Colossus that wasn't an issue with the Storm, basically I knew what I wanted with my Storm loadout, not so much with the Colossus. Equiping things, then testing it, and changing it up is a very long and tedious process that they need to fix ASAP.

[Cam]

I was waiting for reviews. Since they are not promising, I will wait for a sale, if I buy it at all. :|

[Rare White Ape]

I’m most curious to see how the day 1 patch has improved things.

[Blerpa]

LOL! ->


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v69gyj6bL7E

"I can't be the only one who thought this game was going to be some sort of epic open-world RPG with seamless teaming and a world you just could roam around in if you wanted and find dungeons with cool looking loot. Yet, it's basically just a hub town with a bunch of scripted, instanced(and completely generic) missions? And all the guns look the same? In a loot game? This whole game is a fucking bait n switch." <- LOL 2

[Cam]

It's getting savaged on Metacritic.

[Jason]

It's starting to seem like reviewers are trying to out extreme each other, honestly.

[Jason]

Regarding the dialog/hub town/side quests/characters it's definitely RPG like in that there's a lot of lore and people to talk to, if that's not you're thing, yeah you'll hate it. The dialog, voice acting, and character animation while talking are all about as good as Spider-Man, imo, but I have more attachment to the Spidey universe.

Again though, if you're looking for constant action, it would definitely be a massive turnoff, there's a lot of downtime in the game. I'm guessing the "big" loot type games are heavier on constantly grinding missions vs story stuff?

Onto my own experiences... I'm still having a lot of fun exploring and playing the game, I really like the gameplay. It's a mix of MMO and shooter mechanics. The load times suck getting into freemode or a mission, but once it's loaded up performance has been solid for me on XboneX. I wish caves and the what not we're streamed vs loaded when in freemode, BUT, those only take about 10 seconds, so it's not so bad (relative to loading into freemode from the hub areas)

I'm really liking how many options there are in loadouts. I've found my "home" with the Colossus, and I'm focusing heavy on armor, combo, lightning, and fire damage, and very rarely use guns. I'm not that useful against enemies that are far away, but that's what teammates with sniper rifles are for :up:

I wish leveling was slower, but I think they did it this way to appease those who like to rush to the loot based endgame.

I think this game is good for those looking for exploration, story, fun team gameplay, etc. But I think it sucks for the "hardcore" looter shooter players, from what I can tell. Bioware wanted to make a game that touched on a few bases, but to me it's more MMO-lite in style, with some looter mechanics.

I've already got my money's worth, and if they continue to support it for at least a couple months, I'll be happy. But it seems like reviews and sales will be bad, so they'll cut the cord sooner than they wanted, which is a shame. There's a lot to like here (for me) it's just not the game the masses want.

[Rare White Ape]

Maybe they’ll persevere like the Warframe devs and and turn it around.

Maybe it’s already too late and EA are sharpening the knives.

The deciding factor will be how much $$$ it will make.

[Cam]

I only looked at the actual critic reviews, not user reviews. Not likely I will be getting this one, which is too bad. Like a lot of BioWare fans, I really wanted this one to be great. :(

I have no doubt that EA's higher-ups are already talking about cuts. I am really hoping EA and BioWare dissolve their partnership.

[Yw-slayer]

Jason has a point. People may have been expecting Destiny/Diablo when it's not meant to be like that. Maybe it's a bit more like Andromeda.

[Jason]

FWIW, I have no experience with previous BioWare games, and only a partially completed run of Diablo 3's single player mode.

Diablo seems to have a better loot system, or wider range of items, but that didn't interest me much, and the story + gameplay didn't keep me interested either. It ended up being not the game for me. But if you ask the average reviewer, they'll choose Diablo 3 over Anthem every day it looks like.

[Jason]

Ok, yeah, I'm completely out of touch. I keep seeing complaints about a mission in the game, that I finally got to yesterday and really enjoyed. Spoilers ahead.

So relatively early in the story, you're tasked with seeking out the tombs of historical freelancers/javelins. Once you receive the mission, 4 waypoints show up on the map pointing you to the areas where the tombs reside.

As an RPGer/explorer, I take my time getting to those waypoints. Exploring things, harvesting, doing world events, side missions, etc on the way. I enjoy the trip, I absolutely love the visual aspects of exploring around these ruins and tombs. When I got to the tomb, a popup notified me that I had already met the criteria, I was strong enough to enter and get the blessing of said warrior.

As looter-shooters though, I can see why this mission is the worst because it seems like the goal for that genre is to rush through the story to get to the end game to grind out the best gear possible. So this mission would be annoying, as you'd rush to a spot, get a notification that you have to meet certain critieria, and suddenly instead of rushing through enemies looking for new loot or materials for crafting, you have to stop what you're doing and finish various "unrelated" criteria, only to enter the tomb and find out it's nothing but a story beat that you weren't even interested in in the first place.

So.... I'm more and more of the opinion of... if you're into action RPGs, exploring beautiful terrain, and fighting mobs with friends as knock off Iron Man, you'll like this game even with it's current bugs and QoL issues.

But if you're into the super looter shooter genre, and you want a game you can plow through so that you can get into the loot grind, then yeah this isn't the game for you at all.

[GreatScawt]

Good to know. Really thought they advertised this with Diablo-style loot in mind. Maybe that was just early development preview articles I read.

[Jason]

Oh they may have, I'm just stating my experiences. I don't really have a huge interest in chasing loot, personally. But I will grind/explore the hell out of a game if it has fun gameplay and a pretty world (it's how I ended up spending 400 hours on Xenoblade Chronicles).

[21Kid]

Maybe they’ll persevere like the Warframe devs and and turn it around.

Maybe it’s already too late and EA are sharpening the knives.

The deciding factor will be how much $$$ it will make.

I don't see EA putting in any effort after it's released. Now, if it were Ubisoft... I'd hold out hope.

[Rare White Ape]

Jim Sterling (bless his rotund soul) has again picked the game apart like a hot chook in his Jimquisition today.

If you’re even a little bit defensive about Anthem, it’s best that you don’t watch :p

As I see it, there were a few mistakes made that have backfired completely and EA is about to wear it.

- their reliance on using Frostbite for evertything, not just the FPS genre that it was designed for, even though Mass Effect Andromeda already painfully taught them this lesson

- possibly getting corporate EA too involved in the decision making process at all levels, but specifically within the teams at BioWare and dictating that they make a live service game outside of their usual purview

- following from the above, going hard into a genre with a half-baked effort to try and capitalise on its popularity, but missing the mark by a wide margin

- and presenting a promising world during the heavily scripted preview videos, then downgrading hard before release, both visually, conceptually, and feature-wise

It’ll be an expensive mistake if they don’t tread carefully from now. They do have a plan, for the next three months anyway.

And BioWare needs to get outta there real fast!

[Jason]

If you're referring to me, I very much acknowledge that my opinion of the game is in the minority, and that this is one of the most disappointing releases in video game history. :up:

[Yw-slayer]

I don't put much stock in YouTube "reviews". They're mainly chasing clicks and eyeballs.

[Rare White Ape]

If you're referring to me, I very much acknowledge that my opinion of the game is in the minority, and that this is one of the most disappointing releases in video game history. :up:

Hehe nah not referring to you. It’s more of a general trigger warning… I do know a lot of folks were keen to see this one succeed.

[Rare White Ape]

I don't put much stock in YouTube "reviews". They're mainly chasing clicks and eyeballs.

Jim Sterling is a professional video game journalist who used to write for Destructoid and Escapist. Now he is independent, but doesn’t make much money off YouTube, so clicks are irrelevant to him. His income is mostly from Patreon.

That said, the video I refer to is not a review. Blerpa posted the closest thing to a review that Sterling does these days on the previous page. The one I’m talking about is a deeper look that examines the environment surrounding Anthem, as well as the game itself. It came out a few hours ago. You should watch it.

[Yw-slayer]

Pass. I don't even have time to play Apex Legends or read my paid-for issues of EDGE. I'm not going to watch an in-depth critique of a game which I may buy on the cheap at some point in the future and which I probably won't even have time to play.

[Rare White Ape]

But you can watch it in the background while you’re sitting there not playing it :)

[Blerpa]

Jim Sterling is a professional video game journalist who used to write for Destructoid and Escapist. Now he is independent, but doesn’t make much money off YouTube, so clicks are irrelevant to him. His income is mostly from Patreon.

That said, the video I refer to is not a review. Blerpa posted the closest thing to a review that Sterling does these days on the previous page. The one I’m talking about is a deeper look that examines the environment surrounding Anthem, as well as the game itself. It came out a few hours ago. You should watch it.

Yeah, I watched the new video too, RWA. Pure carnage.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUZvd9CBkx8

[Kchrpm]

Now he is independent, but doesn’t make much money off YouTube, so clicks are irrelevant to him. His income is mostly from Patreon.

Hmmm. That's an interesting way to think about that, and I don't think it's accurate, but I just think, in general, that if you're trying to make your income from people that like your opinions, you can end up, consciously or subconsciously, having and sharing that opinion more often. I don't think that any particular method of receiving that income, whether it's appealing to the masses with ad clicks or to a small dedicated group with a subscription service, makes you immune to it.

This is not an accusation towards Jim Sterling or anyone else, just an opinion on the greater discussion of ad revenue vs subscription revenue.

[Kchrpm]

Clarifying here since I can't edit from mobile: you may end up having and sharing the same type/style of opinion that has made you popular and gathered you income more often. This is opposed to, if you did not receive income and supportive feedback, perhaps digging deeper and questioning yourself/others about your reactions and beliefs.

[Yw-slayer]

But you can watch it in the background while you’re sitting there not playing it :)

Nah, lots of other stuff I'd rather watch. I haven't watched all the Short Treks. There's also a hilarious anime called Backstreet Girls: Gokudolls.

[Jason]

Hopefully this will fix the loot complaints:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/avm9yn/anthem_loot_update/

Biggest thing for me, is the change to inscriptions. Will be nice not having irrelevant bonuses :up:

[Blerpa]

Thanks Anthem! :lol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw2tKHtAy2M

[Rare White Ape]

Is it just me, or are live service looter-shooters a completely broken and hopeless genre?

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-02-24-bioware-confirms-work-on-major-anthem-overhaul-has-officially-ceased

[Cam]

Sad, but predictable. Like I keep saying, EA drains the magic out of everything it touches.

[Kchrpm]

Destiny 2 is doing just fine, and The Division 2 just got extended for more content than what was planned. Just like any genre, there are successes and failures.

[Cam]

BioWare: "What now, boss?"
EA: "Make a game like Destiny, but better."
BioWare: "How do you expect us to do that?"
EA: "Just copy Destiny and then do your BioWare thing... you know, work your magic. BUT NO GAY STUFF."
BioWare: "But we have this idea for a game..."
EA: "COPY DESTINY."
BioWare: "Uh, OK."


BioWare: "Your Destiny clone flopped. What now, boss?"
EA: "WTF? I thought you guys were good at making games?"
BW: "We did what you told us to do."
EA: "I told you to not suck!"
BW: "You told us to copy a repetitive game with no story."
EA: "We need a successful, established property with a fanbase."
BW: "You mean Mass Effect and Dragon Age?"
EA: "Yeah! That's the ticket!"
BW: "Can we just go back to what we were doing?"
EA: "OK, FINE. HAVE IT YOUR WAY."

[Rare White Ape]

:lol:

Probably accurate.

Keef: there are a handful of service games and looter-shooters that are kicking along okay. I can even name one of them that is genuinely popular and is doing really well (Warframe). But not a single one of them hasn't had some significant problems or controversy along the way that needed to be fixed.

The genre is full of half-baked and slightly callous money grabs, where the publisher expects to make a fortune at the expense of providing a worthwhile experience for the average player, while at the same time engineering an economy that is designed to prey upon addicts. The list of failures is growing every year. The proportion of failures to successes within this genre is troubling.

Remember Fallout 76? Ghost Recon: Wildlands 2? Marvel's Avengers? They are just three quite significant failures in the genre from the last few years, with Fallout being perhaps the most notorious one.

[Kchrpm]

Yeah, but every popular genre does that (ends up with a bunch of repetitive stuff and cash grab bullshit), and only GaaS really have a chance to "fix" themselves generally because they're designed to be updated. Usually the games just fail and go away and no one cares.

There have been plenty of shit first person shooters, stealth games, rhythm/music games, open world games, etc.

[Blerpa]

Actually FO76 is doing ok, all things considered.
But the other two mentioned by RWA? Manure LOL

[Kchrpm]

And the story for this is that a game that came out in 2019 isn't going to continue getting new content in its third year. That's the equivalent of a game that was only popular enough for two years of DLC. That's not some rare, huge newsworthy failure. It's an average game that everyone hoped would be huge, but plenty of AAA games have been disappointments since AAA games became a thing. They'll just keep plugging away, they'll try to make another one, and when one hits it will all be worth it.

[Rare White Ape]

Actually FO76 is doing ok, all things considered.
But the other two mentioned by RWA? Manure LOL

I looked up the Steam charts. Warframe had 50,000 players in the last 24 hours. Fallout 76 had 5,000. Avengers had 500.

[Rare White Ape]

And Keith it IS a failure. All the years of development, money invested, grind and poor work practices imposed on the rank-and-file staff, mismanagement and reboots close to launch, EA forcing BioWare out of its comfort zone to begin with. There’s plenty of literature out there detailing Anthem’s problems. It would have been a good game if it was a single player adventure in the mould of Halo with more map variety, but EA wanted it to be a tent-pole live service game. If it was a success it would not have needed yet another reboot after launch and it would still be going strong today.

To reinforce my point from yesterday: the live service looter shooter genre is an intrinsically broken genre. The reason stems from the fact that the games are designed to be long-term prospects that keep a core player base for many years. This means an investment in a LOT of time from a large group of players, rather than short narrative games that people can play for a few weeks then move on. The idea is that a publisher only has to invest in a single game, saving them money, and keep it ticking over for 3-5 years or a decade.

It all falls apart because big publishers simply cannot make these things work. They aren’t the sort of games that spring organically out of a development studio; it needs to be forced out of them from above, and they are built to a price. The core of the problem is player time investment. The numbers of people needed to keep them afloat is quite large, but with a few already successful titles in the market, how many more players do you think would be available or willing to split off and play a new game?

To make them work you need a fun and engaging core gameplay loop (which Anthem failed at), worthwhile rewards (again, failure), rock-solid meta structure with limited opportunity for cheating/exploitation (failure), no bugs that impact any of the previous points (big failure), good story/art/word building/environment (pass, but also failure) and enough end-game to keep players interested (beeeeeg failure). And on top of that the games will rely on a small percentage of whales to exploit in order to guarantee cash flow. So they generally don’t reward the average player for their time investment, and are exploitative in terms of cash investment.

It. Is. A. Broken. Genre.

[Jason]

I’m very much bummed about Anthem being canned, I thought the core flight/combat mechanics and the world were very engaging, but it clearly needed a fresh start in terms of development. I understand why they cancelled “NEXT”, since it’d be a high risk, and the name is now tainted... but still, very bummed.

[Kchrpm]

It. Is. A. Broken. Genre.

And yet Division, Destiny, GTA: Online, Warframe, Borderlands, etc.

How many failed racing games have there been? By major players, even. Does that mean it is a failed genre? A high risk genre, sure, but that's almost all of AAA gaming.

Is Anthem a failure that was pushed by the people up top and forced a lot of overworking by the developers? Sure. But so was Fallout 76, Mass Effect: Andromeda, No Man's Sky, Battlefront II, etc etc. There are SO MANY failed AAA games across all genres and companies.

Just like MMOs, though, the successful looter shooters do push out the other ones because of the time investment needed, but that just makes the risk/reward even higher. If you can be one of the games that people decide to make their major time sink, you make a ton of money. If not, you don't. That's the risk of these big things, like making blockbuster movies.

[Godson]

I'm with RWA on this.

And I have close to 1800 hours logged on Destiny 2, which is in the top 4 percent of players.

The game gets repetitive, and turns into a slog. The saving grace for me on Destiny vs the others in the genre, is the game FEELS so God damned solid from a playability side. Like, the guns feel good between the various subclasses, the supers feel special. When I am tired of PVE I can switch to PVP. If I want a mix, I can run Gambit. No other game offers this.

It also has a SOLID story, if you read the lore.

A good example of this is the lore for a hand Cannon called "Luna's Howl".

It's amazing.

The other games don't do this.


The genre, honestly sucks.

[tigeraid]

It. Is. A. Broken. Genre.


This. In general. There's like a handful of these that have worked, and honestly they work DESPITE predatory mechanics and repetitive nonsense.

Dragon Age is my all-time favourite PC game series, and I am so, so, SO happy it's going to be a simple single player game. I will dump my money forthwith.

AAA companies are just gonna keep on trying the online multi-player loot box predatory nonsense. It's not gonna end. Because when they do OCCASIONALLY come up with something that tugs at people's wallets, it becomes a torrent of cash for no effort whatsoever. Sadly. Unless regulatory bodies get involved, with the lootboxes that is.

[Cam]

Regulatory bodies have stepped in. In some places, loot crates have been outlawed because it is gambling. I think that is the reason Rocket League, for example, eliminated loot crates and went to a blueprint system.

[tigeraid]

True, sorry, I should've said "MORE regulatory bodies." Like, to make it the obvious norm.

[Rare White Ape]

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure only Belgium and China regulate loot boxes heavily. Belgium has banned them because they say it is gambling. China imposes spending limits on in-game economies for young people.


AAA companies are just gonna keep on trying the online multi-player loot box predatory nonsense. It's not gonna end. Because when they do OCCASIONALLY come up with something that tugs at people's wallets, it becomes a torrent of cash for no effort whatsoever.

Full speculation here: perhaps they see the failed games as an investment into the one that eventually pays off.

But the victims in such a scenario are the people sucked into spending money on the promise of year's worth of future content, and more importantly the developers working themselves to mental illness thanks to shoddy workplace practices.

[21Kid]

I'm with RWA on this.

And I have close to 1800 hours logged on Destiny 2, which is in the top 4 percent of players.

The game gets repetitive, and turns into a slog. The saving grace for me on Destiny vs the others in the genre, is the game FEELS so God damned solid from a playability side. Like, the guns feel good between the various subclasses, the supers feel special. When I am tired of PVE I can switch to PVP. If I want a mix, I can run Gambit. No other game offers this.

It also has a SOLID story, if you read the lore.

A good example of this is the lore for a hand Cannon called "Luna's Howl".

It's amazing.

The other games don't do this.


The genre, honestly sucks.
Are you??? Because it sounds like you really like D2.

LOL

Anyway... What game doesn't get repetitive over 1800 hrs? Even if it was the best game in the world, I would get sick of it. Good thing there are many others to play ;-)

[tigeraid]

Yup.

And, maybe it's just me and my worries about it, but the idea of long-term, "always-online" game services is that they promote, to a FAR greater degree than 1p games, obsession and addictiveness. Much like social media, there's constant FOMO, with the added bonus of competitiveness thrown in. Which means more hours spent in-game, and more money dumped into lootboxes and "content." Whereas a 1p game, even if you're obsessed with it, is what, maybe 100hours on average?

At least there's an actual industry with some e-sports, with a chance to actual make a living at it. But it's still a relatively small one, I think.

[Kchrpm]

I tend to play the demo of all these games and decide how interested I am in the gameplay, regardless of how much content I think is coming. Like Tyler, I can sink a bunch of hours into a repetitive if the core gameplay is fun for me. I have never really enjoyed the gameplay in Destiny, but The Division (original, not the sequel for some reason) and Avengers hooked me. Doing the same things over and over didn't bother me too much because I'm used to games only having whatever levels they came with and then you're done, so just being able to replay them and explore the open world with new powers was cool. The fact that there isn't something new for me to play every month is...I mean, that's normal, why would I complain too much about that?

I guess that's always been why I don't think so lowly of looter shooters, as long as they don't have pay-to-win tactics. They're just normal action games that have an endgame tacked on. I judge them based on how good that action game part is, and I ignore the attempts at monetizing through cosmetics because I don't care about them. I don't really care that it's trying to get me to play every day or do tasks or whatever. If the game is fun I will do them, if not I won't. I don't care if they spent $100 million on setting up blah blah blah and it's supposed to be a franchise that lasts forever. Is it fun or not? "Is it worth $60" isn't even like...$60 to whom?

I guess I just don't get the hate against the genre. Just like anything else in mass market media, people are chasing dollars, and some are making good products and some aren't. Complain about the things that are actually bad, but if someone makes a game that is fun to play but also happens to have MMO/RNG/whatever endgame tacked on at the end, just stop playing when you get to that and pretend it was only a short single player game.

I dunno, it all just reminds me of the hate against games that had multiplayer modes tacked on. One could have made the argument that multiplayer games were dead, because of all of the single player games with bad/cash-grab/lazy/whatever multiplayer modes tacked on, but they would be ignoring all the games that had great multiplayer (often to the detriment of their single player modes, OMG single player games are dead!!!)

Blockbuster AAA games, like blockbuster movies, are a boom or bust market. You take risks, you spend a bunch of money, and sometimes you get a surprise hit but mostly you get eh's and a couple complete flops. For ALL of them, not just looter shooters but every AAA game, the developers get ground into a paste by crunch (Last of Us 2 and Cyberpunk 2077 being the latest examples). Smaller games aren't even immune from that, because they have smaller teams and budgets that still need to bug fix and are "so passionate" that they do it willingly (which is one of the big drivers of crunch problems at all levels).

[Kchrpm]

Whereas a 1p game, even if you're obsessed with it, is what, maybe 100hours on average?
Tell that to all the people with hundreds and thousands of hours in Skyrim. There is a market for having endless content, and publishers and developers are filling that market.

I mean, seriously, we're talking about this at a forum named for a racing game that we all put ridiculous hours into 20 years ago. For god's sake we made up our own ways to do multiplayer because the game didn't support it.

[Rare White Ape]

Hades. Independent developer Supergiant Games. They were so against crunch hours that they banned the sending of work emails in their staff after 5pm on Fridays.

It took them years to develop that game on a low budget with 20 people, with a ~2 year long early access period, and it won many accolades and 10/10 scores in 2020.

Crunch is not a 'normal' part of video game development. Crunch is a sign of poor management and greed.

Except for Krunch, who is essential.

[Kchrpm]

Hades is the exception to the rule. That should be applauded and more people should be like them, but you hear about crunch problems at almost every other developer. Jason Schreier has done a lot of reporting on it, and has one or two books on it. Hopefully it will get better!

[Jason]

Are you??? Because it sounds like you really like D2.

LOL

Anyway... What game doesn't get repetitive over 1800 hrs? Even if it was the best game in the world, I would get sick of it. Good thing there are many others to play ;-)

This is something that always entertains me... if you get hundreds of hours out of a game, I think it's worth the cost to me. That's why I'm not necessarily mad about Anthem or Avengers, yeah both were light on content compared to some, but I still played them for hundreds of hours so I got my moneys worth. I'm more disappointed that I haven't gotten *more* content because I wanted to play both more haha

[tigeraid]

Well, maybe my opinions of the genre are tainted by how exploitive the companies making them are. All part of the same shit-sandwich, even if the game might be fun to play for a while.

[Kchrpm]

Yeah, but those companies are making other games that are similarly exploitative as well. I think that's why they're all trying to make/join game subscription services, so they can release games at full price AND treat them even more like free-to-play games, because the subscription people are getting them for "free".

Since I got Game Pass Ultimate recently I started playing Forza Horizon 4, and the in-game unskippable ads for DLC are so effing annoying. No, I don't want to buy your ugly ass LEGO cars, don't make me watch this minute long commercial.

[Rare White Ape]

Here's another thing (not to drag the games and their publishers through the mud any more, but also to do just that). If the games were designed as a more focussed single player offering then they would be much, much better.

All the pieces are in place to make a really good single player Avengers game, but it got ruined by the cash grab. Same with Anthem, same with Fallout 76, same with all of those other ones I can't be bothered looking up right now.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, but those companies are making other games that are similarly exploitative as well. I think that's why they're all trying to make/join game subscription services, so they can release games at full price AND treat them even more like free-to-play games, because the subscription people are getting them for "free".

Since I got Game Pass Ultimate recently I started playing Forza Horizon 4, and the in-game unskippable ads for DLC are so effing annoying. No, I don't want to buy your ugly ass LEGO cars, don't make me watch this minute long commercial.

Oof, glad to know I'm missing that by playing it outside of GamePass. That's a fun game that's hindered by a lot of petty annoyances that they refuse to fix, I can't imagine it with annoyances like that.

And I'm with you, the Lego DLC was dumb.

[Kchrpm]

All the pieces are in place to make a really good single player Avengers game, but it got ruined by the cash grab. Same with Anthem, same with Fallout 76, same with all of those other ones I can't be bothered looking up right now.
I can't speak for Anthem, I only played the demo/beta, but I thought the Avengers single player was damn good. Padded out by multiplayer-style levels, but I enjoyed those, and the more focused/scripted single player bits were great.

[Blerpa]

And I'm with you, the Lego DLC was dumb.

Still the only place on Forza Horizon 4 where you can find proper racing tracks. It wins just for that, albeit short and limited.

[Rare White Ape]

The Lego Mini Cooper S is OP

[Jason]

This reminds me how much I want a Forza game where you can drive from track to track (as in proper racetracks)

[Jason]

Here's another thing (not to drag the games and their publishers through the mud any more, but also to do just that). If the games were designed as a more focussed single player offering then they would be much, much better.

All the pieces are in place to make a really good single player Avengers game, but it got ruined by the cash grab. Same with Anthem, same with Fallout 76, same with all of those other ones I can't be bothered looking up right now.

It's pretty clear that companies are chasing an income stream when it comes down to it. They don't want "just" a game purchase, they want a constant stream of money in after purchase, and the only way to do that is to go "live service"

Not sure if it's just purely greed, or if AAA development costs are super high, so it's very very risky to just do a single player game, or if its because game prices have been at $50-60 USD for decades and haven't increased to match inflation/game production costs, or what

[21Kid]

It's pretty clear that companies are chasing an income stream when it comes down to it. They don't want "just" a game purchase, they want a constant stream of money in after purchase, and the only way to do that is to go "live service"

Not sure if it's just purely greed, or if AAA development costs are super high, so it's very very risky to just do a single player game, or if its because game prices have been at $50-60 USD for decades and haven't increased to match inflation/game production costs, or what

(C) All of the above.

[Rare White Ape]

Well, game costs might have gone up considerably for the AAAest of AAA games, but the game buying market has also grown quite considerably. They invest more in making them, but they are also selling more of them, so the per-unit cost of game development won't be going up as much as they complain about when pushing to retail games at $70 USD. They are also selling about half of them digitally, which means no manufacturing cost. And while Steam, Sony, MS, et-al charge their 30% cut for digital sales, almost all the big publishers have their own storefronts where they take 100% of the sale price, and I'll bet you all of the big players will negotiate a lower cut with the store owners.

Another thing, the $60 price tag is merely the entry fee for most big games nowadays. The rest of the costs are covered by the special editions and DLC, which can also push game prices up to over $100 in some cases.

Another another thing, the big publishers are raking in yearly profits in the hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars. Except Square Enix, who lost a bunch of cash on the Avengers game but still made something like $50M last year. So any complaints that games are too expensive to make are purely an effort to make MORE money for the shareholders. They should increase wages for their lower-paid staff first and then eliminate all development crunch, reduce the ridiculous bonuses for their executives, and start being backed up against the wall in terms of profit, and THEN maybe I will accept the price hike.

ANOTHER another another thing, in the specific case of Activision Blizzard, they shift all of their profits to a shell company in Amsterdam and pay ZERO tax. And few years ago it was found that they received a government payment of $200M for some arts grant thing (I forget the specifics but trust me here!) which did little more than prop up its bottom line and went straight to the shareholders. So if anyone paid $1 in tax, they paid 100% more in tax than Activision Blizzard did, and all of that money went towards subsidising Activision Blizzard's bottom line.

ANOTHER ANOTHER another another thing, in 2019 Activision Blizzard's CEO Bobby Kotick was named as America's 45th most overpaid CEO.

ANOTHER ANOTHER another anotherANOTHER ANOTHER another another thing, Bobby Kotick has a small penis.