Endurance Season 2020 and Beyond

[Rare White Ape]

Daytona 24 Hour test session.

Spoont.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lq3gfbC0nc

[2ndMoparMan]

I am still not sold on the C8. Think it just looks too angular.

[FaultyMario]

But aren't all new Chevys angular? Even the Blazer has sharp knees.

All the C8 needs is a fat ass, like the Camaro or the Onix.

[Rare White Ape]

Thankfully we have beautiful new Porsche RSRs to serve as a salve for pointy Corvettes.

[2ndMoparMan]

Good to know I'm not the only one who doesn't like it. http://www.hiclasscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/80325.jpg We need this back. So bad.

[The359]

I'll be going to Daytona again this year after having a few years off. Shame the entry list is so small.

[FaultyMario]

Good to know I'm not the only one who doesn't like it. Sexy Redhead We need this back. So bad.

SRII?

[The359]

I think the problem with the Corvette is that it looks too much like the NSX.

[Rare White Ape]

Nah: it’s not cohesive.

The NSX is beautiful by comparison. The ‘Vette is a bitsa.

[dodint]

Ehhhhh...

[Tom Servo]

It looks a lot more like a modern Audi-Lamborghini to me with some hints of newer Ferraris. I think it looks good and is probably the best Corvette they've built. It's also not a Corvette.

[dodint]

I think it looks like the NSX I just don't think the current NSX is beautiful. ;)

[Tom Servo]

It does pale in comparison to the original, definitely.

[Rare White Ape]

I think it looks like the NSX I just don't think the current NSX is beautiful. ;)

Yeah it’s not beautiful.

Personally though I think it’s extremely H4WT and one of the best looking Japanese sports cars of the last ten years.

Interestingly it shares the corporate design language of the current Civic Type R and that thing is just… *shudder*

[FaultyMario]

Mister, mister, mister!

Imma let you finish, but the CTR is one of the best looking Gundam cars of all time... Of all time!

[Rare White Ape]

This video is not really related to current endurance racing, but fuck it I’m putting it here anyway.

This is R8 chassis #603 (https://www.racingsportscars.com/chassis/archive/WAUZZZ8RZAA100603.html). It never won Le Mans but it’s significant to me as the car that sported the outstanding PlayStation livery when Oreca raced it until it’s retirement in 2005. It’s possibly my favourite sports car of all time.

I had been wondering where it ended up, and when this video popped up on YouTube I decided to look into it. I’m sad that it doesn’t wear the PlayStation livery any more, but it’s nice that it has been returned to its “spiritual” home with Audi UK.


https://youtu.be/wHBi_-rEn9A

[Freude am Fahren]

I remember when the customer R8s started showing up. Lots of great liveries.

I really liked the Audi UK before they were Veloqx like in the video, or maybe it was a sister car? Such a beautiful shade of green.

https://s31.wheelsage.org/format/picture/picture-preview-large/audi/r8_race_car/autowp.ru_audi_r8_race_car_2.jpg

I was super lucky to go to most Sebrings and/or PLM during the R8's reign. Saw pretty much all the liveries race except the Crocodile (saw it static though), Oreca Playstation and Goh, none of which ever raced in the states AFAIK. Spent a lot of time in the garage areas looking at them unsheathed as well. Lovely stuff.

one from my own collection:

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3451&d=1579401505

[Tom Servo]

Goddamn the R8 was such a glorious looking car.

[Rare White Ape]

It's a modern classic. The design is 20 years old but somehow it doesn't look old.

But then again newer LMPs look like they're from the future.

[The359]

The green and silver Audi UK car was from 2003, then they became the purple and silver Veloqx duo in 2004. The green and silver car was infamous at Le Mans for retiring from the opening hour of the race because Frank Biela ran one lap too far and ran out of fuel. It was one of the few times an R8 failed to finish at Le Mans.

[Godson]

I liked the ADT car a lot.

I was watching some videos from older endurance stuff. Watching the Front Engined Panoz LMP-01 taking it Audi. There was some great racing back then.

[Freude am Fahren]

Champion car is the only Le Mans winning R8 I don't have 1:18 model of. Impossible to find now. Wish I bought one back when I bought the Goh R8.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPNpRz6WoAEnUgw.jpg

https://twitter.com/Mattzel89/status/1221435685128822785

[2ndMoparMan]

The big boi.

[Rare White Ape]

Video: Bathurst 12 Hour street parade :shocker:

https://www.facebook.com/gaming/IntercontinentalGTChallenge/?video_id=1120554674960548

Damn it, I need to go next year.

[Rare White Ape]

Here you go folks, live stream the B12H.

https://www.bathurst12hour.com.au/streams-tv/

[Blerpa]

International YT link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpwDNZts0BA

[Rare White Ape]

Are you guys watching this?

They just interviewed Crag Lowndes, and he always looks happy and bubbly.

He had just completed a 2.5hr stint on a hot day with a malfunctioning drink system. So, 30+ degrees in a Porsche without water.

And he’s smiling and ready to go again.

Crazy.

[Dicknose]

Have you ever seen him not smile.
He is the "black knight - invincible" of racing. He could crash, have his arm off and still smile.

Interesting that they have mentioned how skittish this cars are at the limit compared to the v8 supercars. Faster, but harder to drive and if they let go, much harder to control or save.
The track also makes it very interesting when there is such a big difference in the relative strengths of the cars - the Porsche nimble across the top, the Merc and Nissan powering up and down the long straights.

So Im sitting here needing a cool suit - its 30C inside my place, no air con and the outside temp only got down to 28 overnight and now its warming up again.
But enjoying the racing, but not the overly long ad breaks (and I dont have the pay tv coverage)

[Rare White Ape]

Get a VPN and watch it via YouTube!

Part of the problem with controlling these things this weekend is the temperature. Yesterday the teams were trying to hit times in qualifying that they easily achieved last year, but this year they were stuffing them into the walls.

Plus the cars are lighter, slightly less powerful, and have more downforce, so the tyre loads are very different. Not to mention half of them are mid-engined.

[dodint]

Yeah, it's real nice to watch it on YouTube straight through.

[Godson]

Bentley Bois!!!

[Rare White Ape]

Bathurst is always a ripper.

I’m closer to making the commitment to go next year. Fuck the Supercars - the 12H is where it’s at.

[Dicknose]

Was trying to organise this year with a mate, but he had some complications so no go.
Next year!

[Rare White Ape]

Hell yeah. I’m gunna ride down and grab an Air BnB in town.

Then front up to Melbourne a month later for the F1.

[Rare White Ape]

*From 2016

Also: the sound actually sucks, but watch it anyway.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Qx0xuPmw0

[Freude am Fahren]

Ugh.

They were probably one of the earliest, biggest names attached to the formula.

Aston dropping out of Hypercar (https://racer.com/2020/02/18/aston-martin-set-to-cancel-hypercar-program/?fbclid=IwAR1conL_M-aSoi_ISJvB9gu2iq63ok7MiJT94SXT2efDMncZvEoCuae2WfE)

[dodint]

Tyler is pretty bent about this. I am less invested; we lost something we never had, a notion that fell short of a promise. Ho hum.

[The359]

It's frustrating. Was the car just vaporware? Is this Stroll's doing? Was it too much too quick for a cash-strapped company? Is this Nissan 2.0?

And what happens to the GT team now?

[Godson]

Matt gets it

[CudaMan]

My first thought was Stroll. Sad news indeed. Any word on the Valkyrie road car? Hopefully it isn't stillborn.

[Rare White Ape]

Man that’s disappointing.

For now, here’s a statement from the ACO:

[blah blah we hope they can resolve the situation]

Followed by:

In the meantime, the strategy concerning Le Mans Hypercar and LMDh remains unchanged. The next phase in the positive development of the future top class of competition for the WEC (and IMSA) will be revealed during the SuperSebring event in Florida between 18-21 March.

From here: https://www.lemans.org/en/news/statement-in-response-to-aston-martin-release-on-valkyrie-race-programme/53423

[The359]

The change comes in the wake of Aston’s re-entry into Formula 1 next year, through Stroll’s Racing Point F1 team, which will become a fully-fledged factory outfit and is expected to utilize the majority of the manufacturer’s motorsports budget.

The release noted Aston Martin’s future motorsport plans “will be defined” by its F1 and endurance racing programs moving forward.

So, Stroll. He's shifting money to salvage his own F1 team by making Aston Martin pay for it.

And just to keep some of us clinging to hope, the official announcement is "on hold" and not "cancelled." Which has to be taken with a major grain of salt.

[The359]

I think this is Stroll trying to deflect from Aston Martin's failure to produce a car.


The reason for this decision is that the brand feels that the landscape in the top level of sportscars has changed since it announced it would enter the FIA WEC’s hypercar ranks in June last year. The announcement by the ACO and IMSA to harmonise the Hypercar class with the LMDh prototype category in the WEC from 2021 and the US-based WeatherTech Sportscar Championship from 2022 has prompted Aston Martin to step away.

Having more competition is somehow a bad thing? They were the ones who wanted Hypercar modified to suit them.

[Rare White Ape]

Meanwhile in YouTube land (uploaded less than a day ago)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_93SOUfr4Z0

[The359]

First real response from Aston Martin since the announcement:


“It’s very disappointing for us for you for everybody involved,” he explained. “But we’re not making excuses or not blaming anybody that just some facts have changed. We made a genuine commitment last year to to bring Valkyrie to the FIA WEC. That’s a big thing for any company to commit to a major motorsport programme like that. It’s a big investment. There’s always an element of risk in it. And of course, we had to get a board approval for that last year.”

“That board approval was based on an assumption that more sportscar brands would come into hypercar, and the class would flourish, not maybe not in year one, but in year two, and we’d see a golden era of top-end sportscar racing.

“We think that the market for customer race cars is for us is damaged by that (convergence) because every other racing Valkyrie is an expensive car because it comes from a road car which costs two and a half million pounds. Now private teams will be able to, based on what we think other competitors to do, are going to do will be able to buy premium branded LMDh cars that are much cheaper to buy and cheaper to run.”

“We need some time to evaluate it,” he said. “(Convergence) It changes the conditions on which we got the project approved. So we have to take a pause and decide whether we should carry on with that or look at LMDh or look at staying in GTs. This is nothing to do with Lawrence Stroll coming in, nothing to do with the fact that we’ve had a tougher than expected financial year. It’s as straight as I can be.”

“(Aston Martin is) a long way advanced with the car, it would have had to have run within the next couple of months to make the start of the season,” he said. “We were about to build a car.”

Emphasis mine. So the program is merely paused, but the reasoning is that they are unhappy with the LMDh cars. Which makes sense, Aston Martin were the very ones who argued that the LMH rules should allow production-based cars just so that they could run the Valkyrie. But I'm not sure I understand their argument that this will detract from customer cars. The long standing rumor has been that Aston Martin would have 4 Valkyries in the WEC, two for the factory team and two for R-Motorsport. Further, I don't think I see a lot of Europeans jumping on the LMDh side of things. Peugeot might just to save some money, but who is going to buy a Cadillac, Acura, or Mazda from the US? Mazda is struggling to get their own car reliable and it's on the worst LMP2 chassis. Honda/Acura has shown no sign of a dream of returning to Le Mans, and the Cadillac might be a popular choice but is GM going to be able to supply more teams than they already do in the US? Toyota is certainly sticking with Hypercar. And with all the money they have already invested, how much more money would it cost to actually finish the thing?

I can't tell if Aston Martin is deflecting from a car that possibly is way behind schedule and may not work, or if they are using this as a bargaining tactic to try and keep them ahead of the LMDh potential.

[Godson]

I kinda think it's both

[The359]

If they are worried about cost, why would they even mention "well we have to wait until Sebring and see if we want to build an LMDh car." That'd be money down the drain.

[Kchrpm]

Aston Martin is struggling for money, and Red Bull is developing the car. Red Bull is now their F1 competitor, Stroll cares more about F1 than endurance racing because of his son, and the road cars don't need the kind of ongoing investment that a top level race car does.

Keep making and selling Valkyrie road cars, advertise at sports car events on the backs of your GT cars, most of which are customer teams, save all the money you would have survived developing and supporting without Red Bull's help, put more money into your F1 team.

OR

Realise that just because you have a factory F1 team didn't mean that you can't still work with Red Bull in F1 and elsewhere, keep the Valkyrie deal going with them by hook or by crook, and...well, I don't have the solution for attracting privateer teams to your LMH car if LMDh cars are much cheaper, the same speed, and available for any race team to buy and join.

[dodint]

Keith mentioned in chat that 24LM is now September 19-20.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B94bxbriKA6/?igshid=14ac6ldf7l5mv

[The359]

https://youtu.be/9ITHQExL6Tc

Some guy named Heitkotter is participating in the Assetto Corse Competizione e-Sports event at Monza. ;)

[dodint]

Should we have a sim racing omnibus thread? to talk about it?

;)

[2ndMoparMan]

couldn't be a bad idea, considering that's the only racing we're getting for a while.

[Rare White Ape]

Corvette Racing has announced their withdrawal from the 2020 LM24 due to uncertainties around coronavirus.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/corvette-confirms-24h-le-mans-withdrawal/

[Kchrpm]

Virtual 24LM driver line-ups were announced today on the WEC's Twitter, and HOW THE EFF IS BRYAN NOT ON THERE AFTER DOMINATING THE SRO GT RIVALS SERIES YOU BIG DUMMIES.

https://twitter.com/FIAWEC/media

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPNpRz6WoAEnUgw.jpg

https://twitter.com/Mattzel89/status/1221435685128822785

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPPMmNOXUAA3i1h.jpg

[Freude am Fahren]

:lol:

Seriously just burst out laughing.

[Rare White Ape]

Reminder: the LM24 is on in two weeks.

[dodint]

Have they scraped together enough entries?

[XHawkeye]

Your homework assignment, program the what-if software for the new Le Mans refueling regs

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/aco-sets-gte-pro-bop-new-refueling-regulations/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhelxchWoAI6QN_.jpg

[2ndMoparMan]

yeahno

[Kchrpm]

That's actually not that bad. They do a good job of labeling each of the variables that they're using when they introduce them. It might be useful to have a table with all of them at the beginning or end, as well.

[The359]

Have they scraped together enough entries?

In total I believe they are 1 entry short of what they started with, after promoting all the reserves and even adding another car that wasn't even originally entered.

[Blerpa]

LNT Team retires the whole squad from the 2020 Le Mans race.
So right now only Toyota, Bykolles and Rebellion are going to race in LMP1 (5 cars total).

[FaultyMario]

Makes it easier for JPM to reach the fabled triple crown before Alonso.

:lol:

[Freude am Fahren]

If anyone has considered getting the Motortrend subscription, they are running a special of $2/mo, but you have to sign up for a year I think at $23.99.

Still, assuming they have the contract for next year as well, it would include next years 24h, as well as all the other WEC races up until September (thanks, Covid). Not terrible, considering their broadcast coverage usually sucks (just start and finish hours for WEC races). I can't find info on their broadcast schedule for the 24h. Streaming coverage includes all pre-race sessions as well. Unfortunately, they use Eurosport commentators, which is kinda meh. I would mute and listen to RLM like usual.

Edit: According to my Comcast guide, they are providing 25 hours of coverage on Cable.

[Kchrpm]

Is it commercial free coverage?

[The359]

It has been commercial free in years passed, I use Motor Trend on Demand every year now.

[Freude am Fahren]

The app is commercial free, I'm sure the cable channel is not.

[Phil_SS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPPMmNOXUAA3i1h.jpg

So the Zentraedi have finally invaded. Cool.

[The359]

So some good news since Aston Martin pulled the plug on their Hypercar. Renault-Alpine will run a single Rebellion LMP1 in 2011 and build either a Hypercar or LMDH for 2022, while Peugeot is still on track for a Hypercar or LMDH for 2022 as well. This means Toyota and Glickenhaus Hypercars for 2021, with maybe a Kolles popping up.

[FaultyMario]

Are Peugeot running a car this year? I saw their "new image" teaser video on Twitter and got confused, are they starting their publicity thing for next year?

[The359]

Are Peugeot running a car this year? I saw their "new image" teaser video on Twitter and got confused, are they starting their publicity thing for next year?

They're announcing details of the car on Friday.

[FaultyMario]

They're announcing details of the car on Friday.

https://media.peugeot-sport.com/sites/default/files/styles/cropping_image/public/field/image/68/FRONT-FINAL2_SANS_LOGO.jpg

https://media.peugeot-sport.com/sites/default/files/field/image/68/BACK-FINAL2_SANS_LOGO_0.jpg

I'm not sold on the overall blockiness of the brand's image (https://media.peugeot-sport.com/en/peugeot-sport/news/photos#prettyPhoto).

Reminds me of:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Peugeot_905_1990_Mulhouse_FRA_001.JPG/1024px-Peugeot_905_1990_Mulhouse_FRA_001.JPG

Which looked kinda dated compared to its contemporaries.

[Freude am Fahren]

Maybe the point? It did win twice in a row.

[FaultyMario]

Maybe the point? It did win twice in a row.

Oh, snap!

[Rare White Ape]

Dang it’s weird having Le Mans on at this time of year. Plus it seems like there has been almost zero fanfare regarding its imminent commencement.

It feels like the LM24 Virtual was a bigger event than the real thing!

Anyway I hope both of the Toyotas break down and a privateer team wins it.

[Freude am Fahren]

I hadn't thought about the increased nighttime hours until someone mentioned it yesterday. Also big storms expected.

[Blerpa]

Keep it quiet but the race can be seen here (at least in Europe...)

https://youtu.be/02Q9Kbb6eS8

[Freude am Fahren]

Ooo, nice, with RLM commentary too. Eurosport is pretty bad. I've been watching Pirro talk into a mic without any sound for like a minute and half now.

[The359]

Don't expect the Peugeot to be like that in the end. The original 908 concept was vastly different from the final car.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Peugeot_908.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Jacques_Villeneuve_P908_24hmanstest01.JPG

[Kchrpm]

Down :(

[XHawkeye]

fun while it lasted

[Blerpa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ6U4rUztDc&feature=emb_logo

[Freude am Fahren]

I noticed when the previous one quite the copyright claim was made by Radio Le Mans, not Eurosport or ACO. I'm guessing that's why this new one is just Eurosport audio

[Rare White Ape]

I paid the €9.99 for the FIA WEC feeds and shared the login with my dad. No worries there!

Plus I can watch all of the onboard cameras, including the one inside the cockpit of the #36 Signatech Alpine, which has to be my favourite onboard camera of all time.

[Rare White Ape]

Sexy

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2020/09/18/lmdh-regulations-finalised%E2%80%A8%E2%80%A8-wec-to-adopt-hypercar-for-top-class-name.html

http://www.dailysportscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/LMDH-Render.jpg

[Blerpa]

https://youtu.be/pj0swk8Huvk

[FaultyMario]

How many laps did the #7 fall behind and how many did it recover? Did the #8 not have to take care of the exhaust on the RH bank?

What the hell happened to the #32?

[The359]

How many laps did the #7 fall behind and how many did it recover? Did the #8 not have to take care of the exhaust on the RH bank?

What the hell happened to the #32?

The No. 7 lost 30 minutes exactly, but I doubt it recovered any time as the car also had a broken floor that they elected not to repair. I don't recall any exhaust problems for the #8, they had to stop to clear debris from the brake ducts earlier in the race though.

The No. 32 suffered oil leaks which dropped them back while they diagnosed the leak.

[FaultyMario]

At around the 12 hour mark, when they were changing the turbo on the #7, they were radioing Hartley (i think) to watch out for the right side, or something like that. That's why I asked.

[FaultyMario]

Matt, one more thing. So there'll 2 sports car classes? Hypercars for the European upper level competition and another one that can be BOP'd with DPs so that North American teams have an easier transition to the 24H?

I get confused by the LMH, LMDh notation.

[Kchrpm]

LMH are completely factory built hypercars, LMDH are based on chassis provided by 4 approved suppliers. Both will be in WEC, IMSA will have LMDH and maybe LMH depending on if they feel like they can sufficiently BoP them.

[FaultyMario]

Gotcha.

[The359]

At around the 12 hour mark, when they were changing the turbo on the #7, they were radioing Hartley (i think) to watch out for the right side, or something like that. That's why I asked.

The brake duct issue was on the right side, I believe that's what they were discussing.

[The359]

LMH are completely factory built hypercars, LMDH are based on chassis provided by 4 approved suppliers. Both will be in WEC, IMSA will have LMDH and maybe LMH depending on if they feel like they can sufficiently BoP them.

And to further this, WEC will have a top class called "Hypercar" which will have LMH hypercars and LMDh DPI 3.0 cars on equal grounds (as well as grandfathered LMP1s for 2021). So the two will not be scored independently, they will be the same class, just different rulesets. Much like the hybrid versus non-hybrid rules we have now.

[dodint]

Keith and I kind of hashed through that in chat over the weekend. The Eurovision announce crew made me even more confused so we had to untangle it.

[Freude am Fahren]

And multiple Porsche drivers have withdrawn from the 'Ring 24hr due to COVID concerns.

https://sportscar365.com/other-series/n24/porsche-pulls-factory-drivers-from-n24-over-positive-covid-tests/

[XHawkeye]

Nürburgring 24 Hours - ADAC TOTAL 24h-Rennen - Race

Currently it raining

Same feed: http://www.radiolemans.co/2020/09/24/n24-2020/ or https://www.twitch.tv/hskyyyy

Pit lane web cam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMktFyb5tw8

Live Timing: https://livetiming.azurewebsites.net/event=50?config=w3

List of live feeds, some I could get open with TOR and some not. https://www.gt-report.com/2020/09/24/nurburgring-24-hours-live-stream-3/

[Blerpa]

Thank you for the links!

[Rare White Ape]

YouTube official live stream:
https://youtu.be/2LGapfk2q-s

Works in Australia. Try a VPN if it won’t work for you.

[Rare White Ape]

Bathurst 1000 this weekend.

Along with the opening of today’s track activities, comes the announcement that the Chevrolet Camaro will replace the Commodore in 2022 (if we are still alive then…) on the Supercars grid.

Additionally, the new car will come on the Gen3 platform, as will the Mustang. This means that the current ‘Stang will be graced with a redesign to make it look better.

Concept imagery has been released and they certainly look mean.

https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/supercars-reveals-key-gen3-details/

https://dscxx9mer61ho.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/AOL-Camaro-Front.jpg

[The359]

I wonder how different they will be from a GT3 specification Camaro or Mustang. Obviously the chassis construction will be different, but in terms of aerodynamics, powerplant, lap times, etc.

I feel like they are falling into the same trap as DTM, wanting to do their own thing but with waning manufacturer interest, having to default to the GT3 base.

[Godson]

No comments about the petit le mans?

[Freude am Fahren]

Crazy ending. I was listening on the radio until about an hour left, then was watchin on-and-off while getting settled in my hotel room. I saw the late accident (after mentioning to myself, "why are they going to commercial with so little left in the race and a great battle going on?") in the side-by-side. Commentators said that Taylor's dive on Derani was similar to what Dirani had done earlier in T1, but Taylor avoided him and lost the place, but I missed that part.

[dodint]

No comments about the petit le mans?

Farfus Fucked Us.

[Godson]

Fucked you. Nothing changed for me :)

[dodint]

Not since 2010 for sure.

[Godson]

That's a zinger

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElQ0R6tX0AMlHFK.jpg

It takes a special team to win two major 24-hour races in a year, let alone within 30 days with different manufacturers! Another world-class performance from ROWE Racing yesterday (https://twitter.com/IntercontGTC/status/1320738078546370561)

[FaultyMario]

An official announcement from Audi is expected later on Monday, although it’s unclear in which year Audi will launch its LMDh project and where exactly it will race. (https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/audi-quit-fe-lmdh-project/4918825/)

[Kchrpm]

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/audi-intensively-preparing-for-le-mans-return-in-lmdh/


“This is why we are intensively preparing to enter the new sports prototype category LMDh with its highlight races, the Daytona 24 Hours and Le Mans 24 Hours."

...

“Personally I believe that it’s the right format and formula for the next period, going forward,” said McNish.

“It creates a platform where you can have the same car racing worldwide. The U.S as we know, as a huge market, it’s a big market for it. It’s a big market for pretty much all the car manufacturers.

“But Le Mans is still also a key race in the world in motorsport, never mind just in sports car racing.

“I believe the platform is the right platform to go forward and very pleased with IMSA and ACO call on the first point in the regulations. I stated I was very pleased that the two parties had actually joined together with a global multi-sport view of sports cars.”

[Godson]

That's great news

[The359]

So we have Toyota and Glickenhaus hypercars and grandfathered Alpine LMP1 for 2021, Peugeot Hypercar/LMDh? and Alpine LMDh in 2022, Audi LMDh in 2022/2023.

Now imagine if Aston Martin hadn't imploded.

I wonder if this is why Mazda and Joest parted ways.

[FaultyMario]

Peugeot details:

https://johndagys-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/PEUGEOT_SPORT_POWERTRAIN_REVEAL_04_0.jpg

. . .

https://johndagys-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/PEUGEOT_SPORT_POWERTRAIN_REVEAL_05.jpg (https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/peugeot-reveals-lmh-powertrain-details/)

[The359]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2020/12/15/porsche-confirm-lmdh-works-programme-full-season-wec-imsa-from-2023.html

The resurrection of the WEC is complete, and this only strengthens IMSA as well. Porsche and Audi for both series in 2023, Peugeot, Toyota, and Alpine for the WEC, probably still Cadillac, Honda/Acura and Mazda? for IMSA.

[FaultyMario]

Isn't the whole Mazdaspeed program discontinued? I understood that they were going to kill all motorsports programs and the Mazdaspeed trims.

[The359]

Isn't the whole Mazdaspeed program discontinued? I understood that they were going to kill all motorsports programs and the Mazdaspeed trims.

They are running a single car in 2020, so it's not killed, just not sure what direction they will go in 2021. Also, the Mazda isn't run by Mazdaspeed, its run by Multimatic.

[FaultyMario]

:up:

[FaultyMario]

Here's the old 2019-2020 Toyota Ts050 Hybrid LMP1:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/2019_4_Hours_of_Silverstone_8_%2848664828317%29.jp g/1280px-2019_4_Hours_of_Silverstone_8_%2848664828317%29.jp g

Here's the new 2021 Toyota Gazoo Racing GR010 Hybrid Hypercar:

https://toyotagazooracing.com/pages/contents/en/assets/images/release/2021/wec/0115-01/0115-01.jpg

Call me crazy, all I see is a different roof and a vanity panel at the front.

[Freude am Fahren]

Meh, I don't care much about the regs as far as the cars are concerned as much as I care about the fact that we will be seeing the same cars/teams compete at Daytona, Sebring and Le Mans. They can race in MGBs or Spaceships for all I care.

[FaultyMario]

Well, in spite of Matt's and Nate's best efforts, I still don't understand how the different new classes are different between them and to the old classes.

[The359]

The Hypercar is dimensionally bigger in length, width, and height. The rear fin is much lower and stops short of the rear wing with the roof intake now sitting well above the fin. The rear wing itself is narrower in width. The sidepods are much more sculpted and the floor is no longer straight along the side. It is definitely not as square-shaped overall as the TS050.

The engine is now a twin-turbo V6 with a single hybrid system on the front axle, meaning no more restarts on full electric power.
Power is also down, they predict Le Mans lap times will be 10 seconds slower. The Toyota runs the internal combustion engine at lower power while the hybrid system is engaging because the cars are limited to a maximum total output.

https://johndagys-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/WEC_2021_LMH_036.jpg

https://johndagys-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/WEC_2021_LMH_060.jpg

https://johndagys-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/WEC_2021_Studio_008.jpg

https://johndagys-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/WEC_2021_Studio_001.jpg

[Rare White Ape]

Call me crazy

Call me crazy, because apparently they will be making road car versions of these.

If it comes true, it is the maddest thing ever and I love it.

[FaultyMario]

The brand name "hypercar" does conjure visions of a souped-up GT machine.

I was a bit disappointed that it looked like a prototype and not like, say, a gt40.

[The359]

I believe the intent was always to have GT Prototypes akin to the Toyota GT-One, but the manufacturers could never agree on the direction of the rules. Toyota wanted more of a prototype, Aston Martin wanted more of a homologation special, and the other manufacturers took sides. Even Glickenhaus has gone from what would have been a homologation special to more of a prototype as their SCG 007 has evolved. And given how many manufacturers have signed up for LMDh, don't expect any supercars to appear in the future. Peugeot's LMH will be just a Toyota clone.

[Rare White Ape]

The LMDH rules make so much more sense than the LMH rules.

They’ve been continually trying to recall a time where the Le Mans winning car could’ve been bought from a dealership, and that hasn’t happened for over 50 years. Maybe even 70 years. Save the road car stuff for the GTE category.

[The359]

I don't think it's wanting to use cars from a dealership, it's that manufacturers want to say they built the car, instead of using a spec chassis and simply adapting styling to it. Toyota wants a Toyota, not an Oreca that has like Toyota headlamps. Same with Aston Martin.

[Rare White Ape]

Nah I mean that the ACO is angling for this aspect. I think they should just let teams and manufacturers develop pure racing cars.

[FaultyMario]

I think Matt should start the new season thread. Or erase the 2020 from the header.

[Kchrpm]

Nah I mean that the ACO is angling for this aspect. I think they should just let teams and manufacturers develop pure racing cars.

I don't think the manufacturers want to spend the money on pure, bespoke, unlimited, etc. cars. The supercar manufacturers need new models they can sell to billionaires, and the big manufacturers need to say "look, the hybrid we put in our SUVs is cool!".

[FaultyMario]

I can't believe a pro would do this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Es4EONAU0AIndCH.jpg


What could allow Austin Dillon to do something so dangerous? It can't be down to driver error.

For those not in the know, during Daytona night practice, Dillon overshoot Turn 6 and went all the way around the tire wall and rejoined the track after using the Turn 1 runoff... with cars coming at full speed.

[The359]

Basically Austin, as a Rolex rookie, didn't realize the tire barrier was the wall for both sides. He had no idea cars were on the other side.

[Freude am Fahren]

I doesn't seem like a great design actually. I don't think it's been that open in the past? (Obviously for a while though with that sat image). I could see a car getting punted just right (wrong) and bad things happen.

[FaultyMario]

Looks like a tire curtain (https://racer.com/2017/09/22/pumpelly-the-case-against-gravel/) instead of a tire barrier would solve the problem.

https://wp.usatodaysports.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/85/2017/09/img_4276-2.jpg

[The359]

I doesn't seem like a great design actually. I don't think it's been that open in the past? (Obviously for a while though with that sat image). I could see a car getting punted just right (wrong) and bad things happen.

It's been like that since they paved that whole section. When it was grass I believe the island was connected to the blue armco barrier.

[dodint]

He's the only driver known to have done it. That alone illustrates his deficiency.

[Rare White Ape]

I wonder if our alternate-fueled part-electric future allows for tiny-pistoned screamers that rev to the sky.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17iCE7Oo4cU

[Fogelhund]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/05/04/porsche-penske-motorsport-set-for-full-season-lmdh-entries-in-wec-and-imsa.html?fbclid=IwAR2ygvKQK3Lzddw7CEcRTE68_x4ljEB SRF86d-Jah8pcY4fvUOBTh6q-PQQ

Porsche Penske Motorsport Set For Full-Season LMDH Entries In WEC and IMSA
Two cars in each Championship from 2023 - Privateer Porsche LMDHs from 2023 too

[Kchrpm]

GTLM was completely absent at Mid-Ohio, including Corvette Racing. Disappointing but understandable.

Pictures!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MkuGAy2sgWxAVjZeA

[The359]

That's actually normal for the IMSA season, the only races that really have all five classes are the Enduros.

[Kchrpm]

GTLM has never skipped Mid-Ohio that I know of. They usually miss the Detroit just to travel to and prep for LeMans.

[Freude am Fahren]

Didn't they use to do two races at Mid Ohio with one for prototypes and one for GTs? Like Lime Rock?

[Kchrpm]

Lime Rock (and VIR) just doesn't have the prototypes come at all. I don't remember the prototypes and GT cars ever being separated into different races on the same IMSA weekend.

[Rare White Ape]

Hmm yes, the new Hyper Cars can look just like the old LMP1s if they want to. Sexy as.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcIZ3bm8K3A&ab_channel=FIAWEC

[dodint]

Disagree. The LMP1s always looked silly. This was an opportunity to depart from that. Instead, they doubled down. Boo.

[Rare White Ape]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/MRLc0oJPeTcIw/200.gif

[Tom Servo]

The LMP1s always looked silly.


https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/400x/72896142.jpg

[Rare White Ape]

Peugeot unveils new 9X8 Hypercar. The wild styling is putting the 'poo' in 'Poogeot'. And it has no rear wing.

Link with added words if pics don't work (https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/peugeot-reveals-first-images-of-radical-9x8-le-mans-hypercar/6626576/)

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/2Qzr78mY/s6/peugeot-hypercar-9x8-1.jpg

https://cdn-9.motorsport.com/images/mgl/YP3zMre2/s8/peugeot-hypercar-9x8-1.jpg

[dodint]

See, that's closer to the kind of stuff we should be getting. Not a warmed-over LMP1 design.

[The359]

I think they are trying to mimic the Nissan ideaology with having all the aero be inside the bodywork, hence no rear wing.

[Kchrpm]

I like that it looks like a concept/movie car, regardless of if it's aesthetically pleasing.

[FaultyMario]

I like it. I do have some questions, though:

How do you pronounce her name? I don't think it was christened with an anglophone audience in mind.
I've watched the intro video, so why wasn't the 206 WRC invited? That's one of the most iconic Peugeots racecars of all time.
How do they fit The DRS into that little wing? How are they going pass other cars?

[Rare White Ape]

‘Nine-ecks-eight’ I suppose.

The Hypercar class is allowed underbody aero, so there might be some ground effectsy-type thing going on underneath.

And while this race car looks complete, I suspect the race version we eventually see on the grid will include things that revert back to more conventional aerodynamics.

[FaultyMario]

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/melingoimages/Images/98117.jpg

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5ovw3PXoA0erby.jpg

Peugeot's tongue more firmly planted.

[Freude am Fahren]

Is it possible this is the "road car" version, and they're being cheeky and when the car actually hits Le Mans, we see a wing?

[Rare White Ape]

Here's a video with a bit of educated speculation on various elements seen in the car.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojnvRedzQBc&ab_channel=BSport

One thing it does fail to mention is the purpose of that wide concave section between the diffuser and the trailing edge of the rear spoiler (not a wing). The car looks like it pumps air from the inside edge of the rear wheels to 'fill' that cavity, possibly supplied by the big scoops next to the cockpit, thus reducing drag and providing airflow to create downforce. A similar concept is seen on the Lotus Evija.

And I have firmed on my hypothesis that the car will not see a race track in this exact guise. Some of those fiddly finny-bits in the nose have to go, plus those sharp edges will create heaps of drag (unless they're there on purpose, in order to meet the aero efficiency targets).

The car certainly has tongues wagging. If they get it to a track without added spoilers in the vicinity of the rear bodywork then they will have achieved something remarkable.

[The359]

Is it possible this is the "road car" version, and they're being cheeky and when the car actually hits Le Mans, we see a wing?

The ACO dropped the requirement for a road car. I don't believe Peugeot has shown any indication of making a road version.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I like that it looks like a concept/movie car, regardless of if it's aesthetically pleasing.

Agreed. Actually it’s not really that ‘unpleasing’ to me.

[Kchrpm]

"Lamborghini to become sixth LMDh manufacturer"

https://racer.com/2021/08/04/lamborghini-to-become-sixth-lmdh-manufacturer/

[Rare White Ape]

I dropped a little cummie into my pants when I watched this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2Bl-QbHGsU&ab_channel=24HeuresduMans

[Rare White Ape]

Le Mans 2021 spotters guide:

https://spotters.guide/resources/2021_Le_Mans_V1.2.pdf

[Kchrpm]

ACO and FIA confirming a switch from GTE to a GT3-based platform for their GT cars in 2024

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/aco-fia-confirm-gt3-to-replace-gte-formula-from-2024/

[FaultyMario]

Where's Matt?

[Blerpa]

ACO and FIA confirming a switch from GTE to a GT3-based platform for their GT cars in 2024

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/aco-fia-confirm-gt3-to-replace-gte-formula-from-2024/

Finally.

[Rare White Ape]

I will lament the demise of GTE. They are faster and more dynamically engaging than GT3, and require more from the driver to get the best out of them.

I hope a new “GT3-based” category compels manufacturers to make the cars similarly interesting.

[Kchrpm]

I will lament the demise of GTE. They are faster and more dynamically engaging than GT3, and require more from the driver to get the best out of them.

I hope a new “GT3-based” category compels manufacturers to make the cars similarly interesting.

That's my hope as well, but I don't know enough about the differences. I know they need to be able to be maintained by customers, designed to be used with traction control and ABS (and therefore unwieldy without them), and are, in general, less efficient aerodynamically, but I don't know what's intrinsic to the format and what can be "fixed".

[Rare White Ape]

I may be wrong but from what I understand, GT3 cars need to be based on a production body shell, gearbox and engine with minimal changes, but most of the bits that attach to that (suspension, aero, brakes, etc) have quite a bit of freedom. They’re allowed full driver aids, with a view to them being friendly to drive to allow gentlemen drivers to be competitive. They would have developed the category using cars such as the Porsche 911 GT3 Cup and Ferrari F430 Challenge as the baseline.

GTEs on the other hand are almost bespoke racing cars. The body profile can be adjusted for aero efficiency and engine locations changed: mostly for weight distribution such as moving the engine rearward in the C7 Vette but famously the 911 RSR went mid-engine which helped with both weight and underbody aero. In terms of performance comparison they are about 1 sec faster per km. ABS is banned but they do have TC.

GT3 was designed to be an entry tier below the old FIA GT1 and GT2 categories, and those two eventually morphed into GTE. I really do think they still need a class above GT3 to differentiate from that category. Maybe not as fast as GTE, but make them similarly challenging to get the most out of: less weight, more power, more aerodynamic freedom, no driver aids, and allow teams to easily convert between categories by swapping out the relevant parts. Maybe even allow more advanced race engines too?

It looks like the ACO wants LMP2 to phase out too. It would be great if that meant more teams chose to fill the Hypercar class, manufacturer availability pending, but to me a simplified two-class structure is less interesting than what we’ve had with 3-4 classes. They want to attract the big manufacturers and LMP2 was off limits for them, but LMP2 has had the strongest prototype grids for ages.

[Freude am Fahren]

If they're gonna stick with GT Pro and AM classes, maybe they can do away with ABS in Pro, and give them stickier tires or something.

Maybe we need a new GT2 class? (I know there kinda is one already, but like does anyone know anything about it?) It would be a nice place for manufacturers to land, given they won't be in GT3 (https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/future-gt-class-set-to-prohibit-factory-teams/?fbclid=IwAR2m5UpR8E-nSsbVh27x6ukbeh7-dVaBqr5feoVPJFTpSCgA04Wg1BVCP4U).

Both classes based on the same chassis, but with modular add-ons for the added speed. Things like higher output engines (more boost, smaller restricorts, etc). Bigger wings, splitters, diffusers, weight differences, aids differences, etc. That way the manufacturers can mostly create the same car for GT3 and GT2 teams, limiting expenses?

[Kchrpm]

The GT2 cars are higher power but lower downforce than the GT3 cars. They're meant to be easier for a gentlemen driver to get the most fun out of without the skill and commitment needed in high downforce cars.

[Rare White Ape]

The only GT2 cars I know of are the Audi R8 LMS GT2, Porsche 911 GT2 RS Clubsport and KTM X-Bow GT2. They were designed as a concept by SRO (who used to run the FIA GT Championship) as a sort of middle ground category between GT4 and GT3 that rich folks in customer teams could drive, which to me has led to an annoyingly confusing naming convention.

It’s a bit of a stillborn category in my eyes. It’s been a few years since it was proposed and while COVID hasn’t helped, nobody had the money for an amateur racing category in expensive cars, and manufacturers would be putting in all that effort to develop and sell maybe ten examples of each. On the other hand GT3 is popular and ubiquitous and has provision for PRO/AM competition.

[Rare White Ape]

Barring an asteroid impact, it looks like Toyota is going to get an overall win again. Call me a cynic but it’s not a huge achievement when your competitors are miles off the pace. The more intriguing races are in the other categories. Bring on the other manufacturers!

[Freude am Fahren]

Indeed impressive, even if they are benefitting from lack of competition from big names.

and the GR is different to the TS050 but still. I need more variety in my case, lol

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3800&d=1629606939

3800

[dodint]

Barring an asteroid impact, it looks like Toyota is going to get an overall win again. Call me a cynic but it’s not a huge achievement when your competitors are miles off the pace. The more intriguing races are in the other categories. Bring on the other manufacturers!

Yeah, so long as they do not wreck or explode it's a foregone conclusion. In light of 2016 that might actually be a struggle for Toyota. It's not a coincidence their reliability issues cleared up when they stopped having to push the envelope and actually compete.

Was hoping the cars wouldn't turn back on during their photo staging pit stop, but, alas.

[Freude am Fahren]

That was a pretty intense ending for LMP2, and kinda scary for the flagman. Probably should notice there's a battle and skip the photo-op and put him on the wall.

[dodint]

Yup. I would have been okay with him getting popped so we can do away with that for good.

[Alan P]

Can I just say, the Glickenhaus entry is one of the sexiest prototypes I’ve ever seen!? Exactly what you’d expect a modern endurance car to look like. A real shame the ACO couldn’t rein in the Toyotas a little to give them a better chance, but I guess they don’t want to upset them given they were the only manufacturer in Hypercar. Hopefully some new BOP next year will drop them down a little.

[Kchrpm]

With the ACO's goal of having GT racing be privateer/amateur only, with manufacturers only allowed to participate in prototype/hypercar teams, it made me wonder if GM would want to pull a VAG and compete against themselves, Corvette vs Cadillac, the way that VAG will have Audi vs Porsche vs Lamborghini. I doubt it, and it seems to make more sense to have Corvette as the hybrid race car brand since Cadillac is transitioning to an all electric lineup in the next 10 years or whatever it is.

[Rare White Ape]

Well…

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.caranddriver.com/news/amp37385488/cadillac-2023-24-hours-le-mans/

[Kchrpm]

https://racer.com/2021/08/30/audi-drops-plans-for-factory-imsa-lmdh-program/

Audi will still compete in the WEC, but not IMSA.

[Rare White Ape]

Alpine is starting an LMDh program.

https://www.fiawec.com/en/news/alpine-commits-to-fia-wecs-hypercar-category-from-2024/7166

[Rare White Ape]

Side note: I’ve had the opinion for ages that the top tier of endurance racing has been dead for a while now and it would be cool if the ACO just made LMP2 the top category. But that goes against my other opinion that teams and manufacturers should be free to engineer their own high performance cars under a freer rule set than what LMP2 offers.

This LMDh idea is a brilliant way to address that. The base chassis are from a limited supply, but teams are free to build their own engines and create their own external bodywork. I’m not sure how free they are in terms of aerodynamics but those are the two things that make the biggest differences in performance these days. Plus this really cuts costs and attracts plenty of manufacturers to the category.

The LMH class on the other hand, I think will either only have two or three manufacturers at any time putting in the expense and effort, or it will be gone within a few years. It had a very lukewarm start this year in the WEC with no competition to face Toyota and so far vapourware on the vaunted road car homologation front. It’s VERY free with its rule set, but also very expensive to enter.

The next five years will be intriguing.

[Freude am Fahren]

Petit Le Mans had a pretty exciting finish last night.

Mazda came from down a few laps to win in their last race in IMSA. :up:

Action Express and Wayne Taylor Racing were neck & neck in the championship. Basically fighting for 2nd, whoever is in front at the end of the race wins the championship. Nasr in the AE Cadillac took new rear tires only on the last stop. Ricky Taylor in the WTR Acura took all four. The race being later than usual temps were in the 40s and coming out the pits, everyone was struggling with grip. AE was especially sketchy because with warm, used fronts, and ice cold rears, they looked like when people poot food trays under the back tires of a FWD car to drift around parking lots :lol: Both cars had offs on their out laps, but eventually settled in with Ricky Taylor gaining consistantly on the AE car in 2nd. Road Atlanta being what it is, Traffic was a factor and it was really exciting to watch. On the last few laps, WTR was within 1-2 seconds, then Nasr got held up in T7, going on to the backstraight and Taylor was in the draft. He was a bit far going into 10, but sent it anyway (just like the commentator told him too, lol). Nasr defended* strongly. Really he just cut him off and froced him off on the inside going into 10a. Taylor going bounding and flying through the gravel trap and grass. Came back on track ahead of Nasr, but Nasr had the momentum. So they were like neck & neck going under the bridge, but the broadcast grabbed the front straight to showt he Mazda cross the line. Then the championship contendors came across the line, but at that angle, all you can see is headlights, and no one really knew who was ahead! It ended up being the Action Express of Nasr, but wow, really exciting last hour!

As for the move, at first I thought no way you can let Nasr get away with it, but on replay it looked like Taylor might not make the corner anyway. I think no matter the outcome (Taylor keeps enough speed to stay ahead, or what heppened), let 'em have it. That was confirmed in the interview with Taylor, where he didn't seem too upset, and when asked if he would have made the corner without the contact, he kinda smirked and didn't answer.

I really hope the new rules coming and new cars/manufacturer teams will pique my interest more. I used to be in love with ALMS. F1 was always secondary. But really ever since the merge, I've kinda lost interest, and I think it's mostly because the cars have always been what attracts me to motorsport, and the current DPi's and LMP2s are just so cookie cutter and boring and busy looking (yes, somehow both). I think the fact that ALMS allowed you to see the same cars/teams that were at Le Mans in the top category was also a huge draw for me. I'm so stoked we will finally see the same cars fighting at Sebring, Daytona and Le Mans soon. That hasn't been a thing since I started watching.

I'm gonna miss GTLM too. the GT1/GT2 categories have always been my favorites. The highet level of car, while still maintaining a link to road cars, even if at times only aesthetically. GT3 does provide crazy good racing though.

[Rare White Ape]

Hendrick Motorsports is entering the 2023 Le Mans 24 Hour.

…with a NASCAR Next Gen Cup Car.

TRUE FACT.

https://m.nascar.com/news-media/2022/03/17/nascar-hendrick-motorsports-team-up-for-special-le-mans-entry-in-2023/

[FaultyMario]

Pechito's hit in Sebring looked harsh.

[Rare White Ape]

Underwhelming sounds, overwhelming looks...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG5IUvqlaYI&ab_channel=Belgian-Motorsport

[Blerpa]

This is about growing all of auto racing, not just one race.
Every Racing Series Should Take Le Mans Off (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a39735184/every-racing-series-should-take-le-mans-off/)

[FaultyMario]

Underwhelming sounds


This is as good as they're ever going to sound again.

I like the sound of the Honda F1 PU, btw.

[Rare White Ape]

The Bathurst 12-hour is on this weekend.

Here's how to watch it in various regions of the world: https://www.bathurst12hour.com.au/streams-tv/

[Rare White Ape]

White:
Shoes

Black:
Coat
Hat
Cadillac

Look at this time bomb!

https://scontent.fool1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/284481135_10159505549097912_2756367859996130816_n. jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=KiG1h4Wf3M4AX9zgj5H&_nc_ht=scontent.fool1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9tdCAo4Ty_R4y-y4AW4B29sT6Bx15zHxcOTN3Tdhh-Ew&oe=629EFD90

[Blerpa]

1000KM (or 6 Hour) of Paul Ricard, GT World Challenge Endurance live race


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHHLXGoX5ZA

[Freude am Fahren]

Ugh, I can't imagine how boring it is to drive that track for 6 hours...

(I know multiple drivers, but still...)

[Rare White Ape]

BMW unveiled their LMDH entry for IMSA in 2023. Or, a mock-up of it anyway.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/483506881004830762/983304799405625374/284801373_10221110972426550_964405700355964365_n.j pg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/483506881004830762/983304799892160532/284918064_10221110972186544_8513057848271614359_n. jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/483506881004830762/983304800278028288/284698260_10221110972266546_3785897976011340062_n. jpg

[dodint]

I'm surprised it's not an SUV.

[Kchrpm]

Lot of good looking machines on the way, I'm optimistic.

[CudaMan]

Grille too small. Not a real BMW.

[Kchrpm]

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/cadillac-lmdh-2023-wec-imsa/10318938/

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl/27vppQv0/s1200/cadillac-lmdh-prototype-1.webp

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl/YN1DDwb2/s1200/cadillac-lmdh-prototype-1.webp

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl/0mbggRX2/s1200/cadillac-lmdh-prototype-1.webp

[Tom Servo]

Those rear fender winglets are a little odd looking, but I do like the translucent sharkfin

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah that clear fin is pretty boss.

But wait a minute is that an American flag embossed into the side panel, or is it a sticker???

[Godson]

I think it's embossed

[Godson]

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/cadillac-reveals-lmdh-car-design-confirms-v8-engine/


Photos here has some elevation to the flag

[FaultyMario]

Looks like renderized pavement to me.

https://johndagys-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/HERO2-Cadillac_GTP_CNA_1879.jpg

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah all of those photos are birthed from the sloppy womb of a graphics renderer.

[Kchrpm]

Race day!

Found out this morning that Motor Trend also has tons of onboards for cars, so I may end up watching on multiple screens.

[Yobbo NZ]

Big hit on that Vette Keef.

[Kchrpm]

Yeah. AF Corse's Ferrari GT cars couldn't do shit so their LMP2 car found a way.

With the end of manufacturer GT teams and Cadillac being given the hypercar program, that was effectively the end of Corvette Racing at Le Mans. What an unceremonious ending.

Hopefully a strong customer team decides to go with the C8 in the future so that wasn't the way that all Corvette hopes for a win end for good. Considering their lack of experience building and supporting a GT3 car, though, I don't expect them to be a popular choice.

[FaultyMario]

Teasing.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FW_L8GvWIAECTQY.jpg

[Kchrpm]

https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/ferrari-wec-hypercar-breaks-cover-at-fiorano-test-circuit/10333823/

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl/YW7PqoOY/s1200/ferrari-hypercar-1.webp

[Rare White Ape]

Peugeot gets rolling


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ao9LDMgmtQ&ab_channel=PeugeotSportOfficial

[Godson]

Cadillac sounds wicked fast

https://youtu.be/6NFUwCahhhU

[Rare White Ape]

Insta-boner

[Rare White Ape]

Fast forward about 45 minutes into this live stream and you'll see the public debut of the Ferrari 499P Hypercar.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Is-Bl8wDY&ab_channel=Ferrari

[Blerpa]

"It’s a fond and tearful farewell to GTE Pro at the end of the 2022 FIA WEC season, the future for the GT part of the ACO-rules sport sits with one more season of GTE Am in WEC and ELMS in 2023 and then the new GT3-based Pro-Am only LMGT3 beyond."

2022 Farewells: GTE Pro, A Statistical Tribute (https://www.dailysportscar.com/2022/12/26/2022-farewells-gte-pro-a-statistical-tribute.html)

I rather prefer GT3 to GTE but it was still nice till it lasted.

[Kchrpm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3EwMOgliqc

[dodint]

Golf, Tennis, IMSA...all trying to find their Drive To Survive.

[Tom Servo]

The Cadillac sure sounds nice.

[Kchrpm]

For the opposite of a Drive To Survive style show, here are very technical overviews of the GTPs by Marshall Pruett at RACER:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJctWKE83XU&list=PLKwufdwFXa7QIjCzMQX9mcqi3mGHicBQQ&index=5


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRvn0utijUo&list=PLKwufdwFXa7QIjCzMQX9mcqi3mGHicBQQ&index=4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xqRB0hi12U&list=PLKwufdwFXa7QIjCzMQX9mcqi3mGHicBQQ&index=3


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wSuOGCc-fE&list=PLKwufdwFXa7QIjCzMQX9mcqi3mGHicBQQ&index=2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW86BPKRL2A&list=PLKwufdwFXa7QIjCzMQX9mcqi3mGHicBQQ&index=1

[dodint]

I think, as someone that doesn't care for anything but actual GT cars, this is going to be a very long Rolex and a very long year.

[Kchrpm]

Yeah they're going to be almost completely ignored by the broadcast.

[Rare White Ape]

Thanks for posting those videos Keef, they were excellent.

[Kchrpm]

Crazy info about the hybrids in this vid:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJLuPe6Jw9I

TLDW: the battery is barely charged from braking (3%-5% per braking event), so most of the charging happens from the engine while they're accelerating. But it doesn't slow down the car: they are limited to putting 670 hp towards accelerating, but are capable of creating more than that. When the battery needs to be charged, the engine produces more than 670 hp and uses the excess to charge the battery.

Also, the system comes with a plug-in charger, but all the teams said they never use it. They only ever charge the batteries with the cars.

[Rare White Ape]

For all of the much vaunted return of Ferrari to sportscar racing, they could have at least doubled the number of cylinders... please!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ize1rE7T8fE&ab_channel=LankyTurtle

[dodint]

Is it broken?

[Rare White Ape]

Yes. There is a noise-sapping turbo between the exhaust and the outside world. And it sounds somewhat like a diesel.

Ferraris should sing... lekky power or not.

[FaultyMario]

I've looked at some pictures from pre-war sports and race cars and I still can't get a sense of proportion. Looking at that 499P next to the Corvette, it looks yuge, and I kind of figured it's a temporary thing, that bigger size is because of the newish propulsion technologies and that race cars will eventually get smaller.

I feel we're again at that point in history when Thoroughbred racers are one or two weight brackets above the Purebreds sports.

I hope that sight and sound get fixed in the next decade.

[G'day Mate]

... and I still can't get a sense of proportion.

Apparently the windscreens trick us - without another reference point we see the windscreen and kind of assume it to be the same size as a road car, then our brains scale the rest of it to make us think they're big.

On second reading, not sure if that's exactly what you're saying, but apparently that's a thing. I always think prototypes are much bigger than they are and it's always a surprise to see them to scale against something else.

On another note, why is it the LMDh entrants all look a bit samey whereas the LMH cars are very distinct?

[Kchrpm]

The LMDh cars are built on similar core structures from approved suppliers, with the manufacturers allowed leeway on the body parts attached to that core structure.

LMH is fully (mostly?) free for the manufacturers to build as they see fit, with the understanding that BoP will reign in anyone that tries to spend their way to dominance. This is what they wanted/agreed to, including the fact that LMH and LMDh will be BoPd against each other.

The manufacturers want strong, committed competitors, so they can spread the cost of advertising/promotion of events, and this is how they figured they could maximize it.

[FaultyMario]

Apparently the windscreens trick us - without another reference point we see the windscreen and kind of assume it to be the same size as a road car, then our brains scale the rest of it to make us think they're big.

On second reading, not sure if that's exactly what you're saying, but apparently that's a thing. I always think prototypes are much bigger than they are and it's always a surprise to see them to scale against something else.

You're partly right, I think the other part is all that black paint used mainly on the back of the cars. And for that I blame the teams' publicists trying to highlight their bigger sponsors.

[Kchrpm]

I'm extra interested in the SRO America schedule this year!

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cn5qMnfrOUl/

Here's the GT4 America calendar: https://www.gt4-america.com/calendar

Sonoma Raceway
30 March 2023 - 2 April 2023

NOLA Motorsports Park
28 - 30 April 2023

Circuit of The Americas
19 - 21 May 2023

VIRginia International Raceway
16 - 18 June 2023

Road America
18 - 20 August 2023

Sebring International Raceway
22 - 24 September 2023

Indianapolis Motor Speedway
5 - 8 October 2023

[Tom Servo]

Only one near me is Sonoma and might be tough for us to pull off. Have to see what I can do.

It looks like there'll be coverage on CBS Sports Network, so hopefully I'll be at least able to watch from afar.

[Tom Servo]

At night, the Lambo lighting scheme kinda gives it a "shocked Pikachu" look.

[Godson]

Interesting read about the garage 56 entry.

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/02/04/garage-56-camaro-daytona-test-wrap-up.html

What's cool, they aren't going to install the air lift system like on every other car at Le Mans.

[Rare White Ape]

So the jack man has to run out there every hour for a whole day?

Epic!

[Kchrpm]

Not IMSA or WEC but endurance nonetheless: the Bathurst 12 hour made for an exciting, record-breaking weekend.

[Yobbo NZ]

I sat in bed all day watching the 12hr. Was a bit light on entries, but still produced a great finish.

[Freude am Fahren]

I watched quite a bit of it. First time I think I ever caught the start of it. Pretty cool watching them start in the dark and finish in the afternoon light. Like a reverse Serbing.

[Godson]

So the winning #60 Acura got into some serious trouble...


https://www.imsa.com/news/2023/03/08/no-60-gtp-team-penalized-for-daytona-infraction/

[Rare White Ape]

Oh my!


https://youtu.be/reb0OB-N6OY

[Freude am Fahren]

Can't wait. Even if Toyota is way ahead, at least we should get some battles behind, which should still be fun.

Jacque seems really confident in the Bykolles :lol:

[Rare White Ape]

JV was confident in taking Radillion flat out and that didn’t always succeed ;)


https://youtu.be/jhim0UkzIMc

[XHawkeye]

The first EVER on-board lap of the @FerrariHypercar 499P. (https://twitter.com/jyjault/status/1636382418717544452) <--- Open for video

[Godson]

What. The. Fuck.

[dodint]

Haha. Suck it again, Wayne.

[Kchrpm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc-EiiCagyI

Also: https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/wave-by-introduced-in-new-le-mans-safety-car-rules/

Wave-bys will be given at Le-Mans to cars that are ahead of their class leader on track under safety car, and then classes will be separated so Hypercars will be first, then LMP2, then GTE.

[dodint]

Should just go to one safety car, then.

[Kchrpm]

My only guess is that they want to be able to corral them quickly, otherwise I don't know why they could keep them.

[dodint]

I always thought they did the three safety cars as a way of rewarding progress. It didn't allow people to make up a full lap just because there was a full course yellow. But they seem to be going the NASCAR/IMSA route of bunching up the field to provide for closer racing at the end, so they might as well fully embrace it and go to one safety car. Then next year start doing Lucky Dog in each class.

[Kchrpm]

I understand that the competitors complained because the three safety car setup splits did the opposite, in that it would split up battles often. Hopefully they can just use virtual safety cars more often. Having everyone just stay about where they are and keep to pace speed is best for keep people in line, with the start and stop of it being the times when people will (potentially dangerously) try to push the limit.

[Rare White Ape]

I always understood that the three safety cars was because of the length of the circuit. If they have only one there’s a long way for cars to travel at their own judgement of speed past crash zones until they meet the safety car.

So this will be an improvement. But I hope they use FCY with a set speed limit more often, as that will do a better job of keeping the natural race order than a safety car period will.