The WWIII Thread

[MR2 Fan]

so Putin is bombing Ukraine tonight....not a good sign for peace

I don't expect WWIII to happen, but this isn't a good start

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m surprised Putin actually pulled the trigger. What is he thinking?!?!?

[Leon]

He is thinking "I must urgently over compensate for my penis size, or perhaps my country's penis size"

[FaultyMario]

If shit can hit the fan...

[sandydandy]

WWIII is exciting…in theory. Only in theory.

[Jason]

I'm in utter disbelief.

And also wondering if I should take a road trip away from DC soon, should NATO get involved heh

[Cam]

As I read somewhere else, "Putin wants USSR back." He won't stop at Ukraine. :(

A Russian artist I follow pleaded, "Make love, not war."

[Blerpa]

Russian stock market has been down of 50% or more value since months.
Me thinks this is a desperate fool actions: he has nothing to lose, better this than be terminated by the internal oligarchs who are pissed about the economy.
What's the problem? Gas and grain, Russia is a giant exporter of those, almost monopolistic towards Europe, at least.

[dodint]

It's nothing new. In 2014, Crimea declares independence from Ukraine, Russia recognizes, moves in troops as "peacekeepers." In 2008, Abkhazia declares independence from Georgia, Russia recognizes, moves in troops as "peacekeepers." Also in 2008, South Ossetia declares independence, Russia recognizes, moves in troops as "peacekeepers."

Much ado about nothing, buy your stocks and crypto at a discount this week.

[sandydandy]

Time to get rid of the 91 octane car and buy a hybrid.

[mk]

I read a pretty good local comment.

It said that person Putin is not a problem, nor is anything special through Russian history.

Other thing was that Russia is playing a bit longer game.
There Ukraine is slowly surrounded during last 30 years.
Steps have also been small enough that west have had very little to be really against.

[Crazed_Insanity]

But this final step proved too much!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fighting-breaks-near-chernobyl-leading-152144084.html

Bombings around the Chernobyl exclusion zone... that's definitely not good for Europe or maybe the world...

[Crazed_Insanity]

It's nothing new. In 2014, Crimea declares independence from Ukraine, Russia recognizes, moves in troops as "peacekeepers." In 2008, Abkhazia declares independence from Georgia, Russia recognizes, moves in troops as "peacekeepers." Also in 2008, South Ossetia declares independence, Russia recognizes, moves in troops as "peacekeepers."

Much ado about nothing, buy your stocks and crypto at a discount this week.

World has gone mad?!?!? NASDAQ is now at positive territory.:twitch:

[FaultyMario]

Russian stock market has been down of 50% or more value since months.
Me thinks this is a desperate fool actions: he has nothing to lose, better this than be terminated by the internal oligarchs who are pissed about the economy.
What's the problem? Gas and grain, Russia is a giant exporter of those, almost monopolistic towards Europe, at least.

Your loving give me a thrill, But your loving don't pay my bills

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMXlL_EXEAMX2_s.png

[Crazed_Insanity]

Will the NATO agreement force these nations into war against Russia when they don't really want to sanction Russia?

[Kchrpm]

"Yeah yeah, they're starting a war, let's not send them food, but we should still be able to sell fancy shit to the rich people!"

[MR2 Fan]

I took a few hundred dollars out for safety in case there's any cyberattacks against our infrastructure here...might not be a bad idea to stock up on foods, etc. in case there's a cyberwar coming

[Crazed_Insanity]

Actually that's not a bad idea... will do that later this afternoon. I have already filled up the tanks for our generator as well from a while back... in case of down trees during the winter storms... (neighbor warned me such things has happened in past winters)

Also, don't forget the all important toilet paper too! :p

I'm still amazed how S&P500 is now trading in positive territory as well... I guess the invasion is over? The world is weird.

[Godson]

The economy and world events =/= with the stock market.

The correlation isn't causation.

If anything, I would bet they will be trading strong for several days up until some serious shit goes down.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Market is really weird. Pre-Covid, market tanked a bit, but after the virus is pretty much all over the place, we had a very bullish market for the past 2 years!!!

Similarly, pre-invasion, markets were tanking... and than after Putin opened fired, market is now shooting up?!?!?!?

I guess I've often heard markets do not like uncertainties. If we don't know how shit will go down, investors get nervous. However once things go down a more certain path, then it becomes business as usual I guess... I probably missed the market dip again.

[Rare White Ape]

It's nothing new. In 2014, Crimea declares independence from Ukraine, Russia recognizes, moves in troops as "peacekeepers." In 2008, Abkhazia declares independence from Georgia, Russia recognizes, moves in troops as "peacekeepers." Also in 2008, South Ossetia declares independence, Russia recognizes, moves in troops as "peacekeepers."

Much ado about nothing, buy your stocks and crypto at a discount this week.

Yep. This is about as ho-hum as it gets.

Remember Kosovo? Well, I’m asking people to think back as far as 2008, but maybe the story of Kosovo goes back to 1995, or 1389.

Either way, why am I bringing up Kosovo?

It’s because it’s considered to be sacred land to the Serbians, as much of its history and national identity comes from that place. And Slavic people from that region have close ties with the Rus’ people who adopted their language and went on to form the state of Russia. In essence, the story of Kosovo also means a lot to Russians.

Some might wonder why Russia doesn’t recognise Kosovo’s independence, yet it recognises the independence of the places mentioned in Nate’s post above. Just think about Russian history and the cards it has been dealt by the West for the last 80 years.

[sandydandy]

As I read somewhere else, "Putin wants USSR back." He won't stop at Ukraine. :(

A Russian artist I follow pleaded, "Make love, not war." I don't think he wants to rebuild the Soviet Union. There's a lot of misinformation everywhere, and he's automatically being branded a power hungry monster. His cozy relationship with Trump certainly contributes to that, especially in the western media.

I don't know for sure what's going on. I'm reading and learning more about it. At face value it looks bad, but when you dig into it you'll see his reasons for invading Ukraine may not as sinister as some people are making it out to be. It remains to be seen. I would need to read more about it before formulating a solid opinion. I think Biden should not get involved. The more sanctions he keeps dropping, the more he's provoking Putin. He's playing with fire, and that might be what lights the fuse for WWIII. This seems to be a view shared among most people in right-wing media...and to be honest, they are kind of right, (no pun intended). After all, a broken clock is right twice a day. :|


Market is really weird. Pre-Covid, market tanked a bit, but after the virus is pretty much all over the place, we had a very bullish market for the past 2 years!!!

Similarly, pre-invasion, markets were tanking... and than after Putin opened fired, market is now shooting up?!?!?!?

I guess I've often heard markets do not like uncertainties. If we don't know how shit will go down, investors get nervous. However once things go down a more certain path, then it becomes business as usual I guess... I probably missed the market dip again. A lot of it is priced in beforehand. It's not like Putin's intentions were a secret in the weeks leading up to the actual invasion. Look at crude oil - it shot up yesterday, then immediately fell back down. It's called a liquidity grab. Market manipulation by the composite man aka the large institutions. I'd recommend looking into Wyckoff theory to get a better understanding of it.

[MR2 Fan]

Also regarding the stock market....seeing only the main numbers doesn't really show where people are moving their money around..

[Yw-slayer]

And people seriously want Pompeo to run for President? lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[Tom Servo]

They do?

[Rare White Ape]

Worth a read:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/23/putin-narrative-ukraine-master-key-crisis-nato-expansionism-frozen-conflict?fbclid=IwAR3Rlq7M7MtQ--R8NcjIfye1lWyRGFNa3e5AA2JZt_w2gir1q6Yf7jhPrZA

[Crazed_Insanity]

Ha! I did not realize Putin showed interest in joining NATO! If former Nazi could join, why not former USSR, right? ;)

After repeated rejections, it should be clear to him what’s the real purpose of NATO?

Seriously, the more I learn, the more I think NATO needs to be dissolved. It will continue to give Putin reasons to strengthen his army, excuse to invade Ukraine, and it’ll also increase the odds of WW3.

[Rare White Ape]

Nope. NATO is good, but so is leaving Russia the fuck alone. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

You're applying the same distrust to NATO as what you have done to the WHO during the pandemic.

Same thing from you over and over again.

[mk]

Etymology of "rus" is "those who row" and pointing to Scandinavia.
There are also two, Kievan Rus(Varangian Rurik) and Muskovite Rus.

But it doesn't say much about those who didn't row.

[Crazed_Insanity]

When WHO ignored Taiwan's warnings and couldn't give enough praises to China, that's when it should be clear that it has became a political organization... no longer prioritizing doing scientific health related work.

That was how Covid spread all over the globe. WHO just failed to effectively do its job due to political corruption on the leadership level. I don't propose that we get rid of WHO completely, but a reform is definitely needed to prevent another pandemic. I really think this pandemic is preventable. We prevented SARS once, there's no reason why we couldn't do it again. Taiwanese saw it coming. WHO ignored the warnings and placed complete trust on China. Kinda like FAA allowed Boeing to certify its own planes. Do we really need that kind of regulators? I'm not suggesting we do away with regulators completely, but we certainly don't need that kind of regulators.

As for NATO, it shouldn't be an exclusive club surrounding Russia with bunch of missiles aimed at Russia. If Putin wish to join, NATO should've happily accept his application and perhaps think about aiming more rockets into space for join venture space exploration. However, if NATO ended up accepting every single nation... then it's essentially UN, right? Why do we need it for?

Now, if NATO is more selective and only invite nations worthy to join, then this exclusive club essentially will create a bunch of 'unworthy' nations and so you keep on aiming your missiles against them enemy states... what do you expect to happen? These unworthy states will just take that quietly?

Friendly alliances should form naturally. If two nations are friendly enough, they'll probably join hand in hand invading Iraq on bogus intel without NATO alliance. Anyway, I just think existence of NATO is kinda stupid now like nuclear weapons. Nations without nukes could join to get access to nations with nukes! So now Russia and China will probably join forces to counter balance the exclusive Western club in order to keep this MAD(mutual assured destruction) thing going.

It's a pretty stupid childish game actually. Seriously, you can't have NATO and leave Russia the fuck alone at the same time. NATO's existence is to keep missiles aimed at Russia. If Russia were to further collapses into nothingness, why do we need NATO for? In case the Mongolians invade again? Or is NATO any good at getting rid of terrorists?

[Yw-slayer]

They do?

I guess you don't. I'm sure there are people who want him to. Probably Billi. Because he thinks everything that his side does is blessed by Angels and their shit is ice cream.

[Tom Servo]

Worth a read:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/23/putin-narrative-ukraine-master-key-crisis-nato-expansionism-frozen-conflict?fbclid=IwAR3Rlq7M7MtQ--R8NcjIfye1lWyRGFNa3e5AA2JZt_w2gir1q6Yf7jhPrZA

From the end of the article:


By invading Donetsk and Luhansk, he has created a “frozen conflict”, knowing the alliance cannot admit countries that don’t control all their borders. Frozen conflicts already cripple Georgia and Moldova, which are also split by pro-Russian statelets. Now Ukraine joins the list. There is speculation about what will happen next but from his standpoint, it is not actually necessary to send troops further into the country. He has already taken what he needs.

That...didn't hold up well.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I guess you don't. I'm sure there are people who want him to. Probably Billi. Because he thinks everything that his side does is blessed by Angels and their shit is ice cream.

I don't think NATO is blessed by anything. Also, I don't think anyone gives any shit ice cream what Pompeo does, especially in this thread. I could be wrong of course.

BTW, as bombing intensifies... All stock market indices are rising. I guess investors have figure out where to put their money.

[drew]

Since the bombs are flying, I guess COVID is over. AWESOME!

[sandydandy]

Curious about all these talks of sanctions on Russia. Last I checked, Russia has veto power in the UN. Can they veto their way out of sanctions?

[FaultyMario]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMYtrHAVQAIH25K.jpg

Are we living inside South Park?

[SportWagon]

It seemed like all of a sudden they'd decided we should have been pronouncing Kyiv differently all these years.
But it's not really all that of a sudden. I' was just ignorant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KyivNotKiev

[Rare White Ape]

Ha! I thought ‘Kiev’ was the anglicised version of it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Don’t care how to pronounce it, but I do care to know if the Ghost of Kyiv is real or not!!!

[Tom Servo]

It's similar to how Ukranians would generally really like us to stop saying "The Ukraine." It's just "Ukraine."

One of the engineers on my team is from there. His family is still there, I believe mostly around Odesa. I'm not sure if he's been able to contact them - he's taking an indefinite leave of absence from work during this.

If I seem a little irritated at the general "it's not that big of a deal" or "well, Putin wants this because of some arbitrary justifiable reason" responses, this is hitting reasonably close to home with a lot of friends of mine.

[dodint]

Well, one of my friends is Russian, so...

(kidding, they are both facing different challenges because of this)

[Tom Servo]

For whatever it's worth, my Russian friends also think that Putin has lost the plot and wonder what in the fuck this whole thing was for. They just seem less worried that their family back home might be dead.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m very impressed by some of the Russians protesting against Putin in Russia! That is one true FREEDUMB fighter!!! If I live in Russia or China, I’m not sure if I’ll have the guts to be like that…

Anyway Swervo, totally understandable. Although I don’t personally have any Ukrainian friends, I do totally sympathize… because Taiwanese could very easily face the same thing if another authoritarian goes nuts in a similar fashion…. Really hope not!

[dodint]

For whatever it's worth, my Russian friends also think that Putin has lost the plot and wonder what in the fuck this whole thing was for. They just seem less worried that their family back home might be dead.

My Russian friend is a loud mouthed woman in Texas, whole other bag of issues there. Nothing rural Texans like less than strong women and funny talking foreigners.

[Tom Servo]

Ain't that the truth

[sandydandy]

Putin has put his nukes on high alert in response to sanctions and being kicked off of SWIFT. I guess it’s the US equivalent of defcon 3 or 2?

The two sides will be meeting as the war rages on. No doubt Russia will demand Ukraine surrender, and Ukraine will demand Russia GTFO. I think nothing will come of the meeting.

I read something disturbing about how Russian cosmonauts may try to crash the ISS into Ukraine or America. Apparently the Russian wing of the station has been closed off for a few days. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had some AK-47s on there and staged a coup. Then programmed the station to deorbit as they jumped into escape pods. It’s Hollywood stuff.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I find hard to believe that all Russians are as crazy as Putin. Why bother with ISS if nuke warheads can be more accurate and effective?

I’m willing to bet Russian soldiers are experiencing low morale at this point. That’s why they’re not winning.

I’m hoping Russian forces will just decide to tell Putin to go fuck himself.

[Rare White Ape]

Anybody who genuinely thinks that the ISS will suddenly become part of WWIII is unhinged, as are the comments from the boss of Roscosmos. In reality the station would be evacuated before being boosted to a safe parking orbit.

The future of the ISS includes plans by both Russia and the rest to split the station into its two segments and allow each party to continue using it for their own ends. There is talk about using the US segment as a permanent station orbiting the moon to support the Artemis program in the coming decades.

[sandydandy]

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-international-space-station-crash-us-europe-sanctions-2022-2?amp

You decide if it’s legit or not. I can’t tell anymore. :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Things definitely would be more awkward if we still don’t have launch vehicles ready to send up our astronauts. However, thanks to Elon Musk, who the Russians laughed at originally, I don’t think we have much to worry about now.

It’d be nice if we can collaborate but if they wish to blindly follow Putin, then they can go fuck themselves.

[Rare White Ape]

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-international-space-station-crash-us-europe-sanctions-2022-2?amp

You decide if it’s legit or not. I can’t tell anymore. :lol:

Yeah it's just crazy posturing from a man with a history of shooting his mouth on social media.

[Rare White Ape]

Click for vid :lol:


https://www.facebook.com/100003936840490/videos/463510598803622/

[sandydandy]

Click for vid :lol:


https://www.facebook.com/100003936840490/videos/463510598803622/ That was awesome!

[Crazed_Insanity]

That's only awesome on TV, but certainly won't be in real life! :p

Here's a thought provoking article about what's going on at the moment... Zelensky's approval rating at home during peace time was much lower than Biden's after a landslide victory in 2019. The comedian suppose to fight corruption in Ukraine but seemingly became corrupt himself, but it's not like Ukrainians have any other better options... However, Zelensky's courage has truly shine during war time. The modern day ace Ghost of Kyiv fighter pilot may just be a legend, but Ukrainian president himself is showing the world that same legendary spirit.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2022/02/volodymyr-zelensky-courage-ukraine-russia/622948/

[FaultyMario]

Yeah it's just crazy posturing from a man with a history of shooting his mouth on social media.

Meanwhile in real war news, The AN-225 Mriya has been destroyed.

A piece of aerospace history has been lost.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The plane may be destroyed, but hopefully Ukrainians won't give up dreaming their own dreams!

Hopefully Putin will have nightmares soon. Actually he is probably already seeing them...

[samoht]

Personally I'm finding the Ukrainian resistance to Putin's invasion compelling. Partly their success at holding back a superpower, but also their 'storytelling'; Zelensky turning down a US offer of evacuation saying "The fight is here. I need ammo, not a ride". Ukrainian women showing how they're learning how to use AK-47s. (https://twitter.com/kiraincongress/status/1497264543428448260)

It's compelling because of the whole unlikeliness of everything; it made no sense for Putin to invade. No-one expected Ukraine's army to be able to resist this well. The German Green Party is backing a huge increase in military spending. Switzerland is imposing banking sanctions on Russia. Ukraine's war leader is a comedian who ran for election after starring in a TV series about a schoolteacher who becomes president.

It's compelling because of the courage and heroism being shown by the defenders. As a Brit, the Ukrainian resistance echoes strongly. "We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

And it's also compelling because it's a war in Europe and, well, I live in Europe. This is the 'Russian tanks rolling over the plains of Europe' Tom Clancy nightmare of the Cold War. It doesn't feel that far away geographically; and since several NATO members border Ukraine, it's one step away from being our war too.

So yeah, I'm cheering for Ukraine to keep fighting. I've sent money to a couple of organisations that are helping equip their army, I've written to my MP expressing support. I've turned my heating down a notch to reduce natural gas usage.

I'm well aware I'm no longer being impartial here, I appreciate I'm consuming a lot of Ukrainian propaganda; I'm willingly aligning myself with their cause.

Ultimately there are two ways of looking at this; the 'great powers' view that Russia has a right not to have NATO expand up to its borders, and the alternate view, that the people who live in Eastern Europe have a right to choose their own destiny, not have it decided for them by Putin. The latter sounds more like progress in the right direction to me.


On a less partisan point, I see 24th Feb 2022 as being as significant a date as 9/11 was, two decades ago. That saw a worldwide realignment of alliances and upending of foreign policies around the 'War on Terror'. This feels similarly dramatic and far-reaching to me. Specifically the EU is standing up and taking ownership of its own defense, centred around Germany which has now decisively moved beyond being a 'post-war' state. It'll drive changes in energy production and consumption, pushing simultaneously exploration for non-Russian fossil fuels and a renewed drive for renewable energy. More countries may want and/or get nuclear weapons - Japan is a neighbour of Russia too, for instance.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, it's interesting that even the Swiss has decided to pick a side this time. Perhaps it's because the bad guys are far enough away so that they finally are able to pick a side? ;)

I didn't think that highly of Zelensky before, but now, I think it's hard to not want to cheer him on and hope his country wins in the end.

I think the main take away after this is that the world will probably grow even more distrustful of authoritarian regimes. As dumb as democracies can often be lately..., I think it will be much harder for Trump or future trumpians to try to look up to and praise them dictators around the world. I really hope Russia, China and North Korea will soon become more democratic because of this... A benevolent dictator can certainly be good for a nation, but you just don't know when this dictator might go nuts...

Anyway, my main concern now is that we don't know what motivated Putin in the 1st place... now that the whole world is against him, it'll only increasingly make him feel that he has nothing to lose. With sufficient arsenal to destroy the entire world, I hope he won't go down in history as the world's worst mass shooter. Our best hope is probably to have the Russians revolting against Putin themselves and contain the situation...

Global nuclear war would not be fun otherwise...

[Dicknose]

I think its interesting that the world is now so connected that the best way to fight Russia is to cut it off from the world - freeze assets, block flights, cancel sport etc. Today our largest liquor chain announced they would withdraw all Russia products. I guess we are having Finnish or Polish vodka for a while!

Putin may have underestimated how much these things can hurt. Sure you can stick it out, but without Formula 1 or international football, that starts to gnaw at the locals. The ultra-rich losing overseas assets and maybe the ability to travel. Putin could lose his support from inside the country.

[MR2 Fan]

I have a feeling a lot of GOP members are going to have some less spending money with these sanctions and frozen assets

[Yw-slayer]

Soooo much propaganda from all angles. Always be cynical.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think its interesting that the world is now so connected that the best way to fight Russia is to cut it off from the world - freeze assets, block flights, cancel sport etc. Today our largest liquor chain announced they would withdraw all Russia products. I guess we are having Finnish or Polish vodka for a while!

Putin may have underestimated how much these things can hurt. Sure you can stick it out, but without Formula 1 or international football, that starts to gnaw at the locals. The ultra-rich losing overseas assets and maybe the ability to travel. Putin could lose his support from inside the country.

Exactly. The world is just so connected, something like this really shouldn't be happening. Putin underestimated Ukraine or miscalculated something. Old man has clearly lost his mind and I'm sure soon he will lose the support of his allies and russian people. I wonder how many % of Russians are in support of Putin's "peacekeeping mission".

[MR2 Fan]

Exactly. The world is just so connected, something like this really shouldn't be happening. Putin underestimated Ukraine or miscalculated something. Old man has clearly lost his mind and I'm sure soon he will lose the support of his allies and russian people. I wonder how many % of Russians are in support of Putin's "peacekeeping mission".

Without some of the hackers we've been hearing about, I don't even know how much of the russian people are aware of it. Obviously there's some in the bigger cities since they're protesting, but I'm sure there's a ton of misinformaiton going on there as they're the experts of it.

[Yw-slayer]

There is another place in the West which govt and system also makes it an expert at misinformation.

[Godson]

Yupppppp.



In other news, Elon has said SpaceX can handle keeping the ISS orbiting.

https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/elon-musk-says-spacex-can-keep-the-iss-flying-if-russia-wont/

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, ISS is currently the least of our problems. Plus, Russians are over estimating their importance just like they over estimated their military strength over Ukraine.

Putin really needs to repent and de-escalate in order to save Russia. Hope he’s not thinking of ending it all like a sore loser.

Xi and Trump also need to take notes and learn not to praise Putin nor following in his foot steps. Of course I’d rather Trump not win any office ever again.

Future governments also need to examine what have they contributed to the rise of these nationalistic asshole world wide and hopefully we can prevent this from happening again.

[Random]

Cygnus can as well (and in someways is better for the task). Scott Manley just had a YT discussion about the space-related effects of the ongoing "unpleasantness." Neither option is perfect, but the ISS won't go rocketing out of control if the Russians stop cooperating.

[Tom Servo]

Yupppppp.



In other news, Elon has said SpaceX can handle keeping the ISS orbiting.

https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/elon-musk-says-spacex-can-keep-the-iss-flying-if-russia-wont/

Elon Musk says a lot of things. I'm happy the starlink thing is something he actually did, but a lot of his grandiose claims need to be taken with a big 'ol grain of salt.

[FaultyMario]

Elon Musk says a lot of things.

That's way more elegant than I could ever put it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, he is almost never on time when it comes to all of his grandiose claims; however, he is still light years ahead of his competitors with his products... not to mention stock value of his companies.

Russians were really laughing hard at him for developing his own rocket that could land and be reused! I've been very skeptical as well. I've seen so many private rocket/EV ventures fail. None of them succeeded. None! Zip! Nada! And here comes a rich dude, not even a billionaire yet I don't think? Claiming that he'll be able to do it both?

Point is I don't think I needed to take anymore leap of faith on Elon. His accomplishments should speak for themselves. I just find it hard to believe that there are still so many 'shorters' around wanting to see him fail or think he's full of shit.

Anyway, bottomline is that I don't think we have to worry about the ISS. If I were a russian cosmonaut up there or a russian F1 driver, I'd be the ones who actually worry rather than to make more empty threats on twitter like our ex-president.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think China is becoming the new Switzerland? Still remaining neutral in this situation. Being Russia's largest trading partner, as long as China won't sanction Russia, perhaps this invasion can still go on for quite a while.

I hope Xi will wise up and cut ties soon.

It's also interesting that Europe is still relying on Russia's natural gas to warm their homes...

This really feels like an unreal nightmare...

[Rare White Ape]

I’d sooner see the ISS plummet into the ocean than give Musk an ounce of gratitude for anything.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Why? That makes as much sense as Putin's invasion.

[Godson]

Elon Musk says a lot of things. I'm happy the starlink thing is something he actually did, but a lot of his grandiose claims need to be taken with a big 'ol grain of salt.

Agreed 100000000000%



However, they have the means, and the rockets...

[mk]

Russian army have done few unexplainable things.
One is missing air superiority.

There's really only one logical explanation.
Rank and file must be disobeying more than expected.
Other thing is how much or little they knew.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Putin has won many wars. Nevermind what motivated him to actually invade, to see his troops run out of fuel and food when they're so close to Russia just doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, likely cause is his troop has low morale and not really wanting to fight this BS. The other reason would be he is purposely dragging his feet for another purpose. Dragging this out, knowing the West is too scared to do anything because of nuclear missiles, the sanctions the West imposed will likely only hurt us more than it'll hurt him. The rest of the non-western world has chosen to not pick a side and are probably enjoying seeing white people destroying each other.

[MR2 Fan]

If somehow most of the Ukraine comes out of this ok and somehow Putin is made irrelevant....I think we're going to finally start turning the tide of russian misinformation coming through to these right-wing areas. We're already seeing a lot less on twitter, etc. for now

[Crazed_Insanity]

That’d certainly be the most ideal outcome!

However, I’m sure then we’d change the term Russian assets to Chinese assets? Then it’ll be the CCP meddling with our politics?

It’d be better if we could just be more united and less prone to foreign meddling… my feeling is that even if Russia and China don’t exist and no black people and no Mexicans trying to cross borders…, Americans will still be fractured and polarized by their different ideologies.

[Rikadyn]

Even if nato/EU involment occurred this would still just be a regional conflict, not a world war

[dodint]

Agreed. The WWIII hyperbole is just bored Americans on Twitter feeling like they're a part of something they are not.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well ww2 didn’t really reach American nor the Australian continent, right?

There’s no way for Russia to take over the world, but Putin definitely has the power to destroy this world. If he could decide to just murder his brothers for no good reason, he could definitely fire off some nukes for no good reason too. If Putin were really suffering from mental illness like one of them suicidal mass shooters, anything is possible.

Anyway, this could very well be a regional conflict, but it’s not like people in the past could realized that they’re in a world war right away. We’ll just let historians figure that out. However, this thing certainly has the potential to become another world war. Considering we now have nuclear weapons, if it does escalate to another world war, then this could definitely be the last war humanity has ever fought…

[MR2 Fan]

I really hope there's checks and balances in place where Putin can't just unilaterally launch nukes

[FaultyMario]

I really hope people laid off the hyperbole.

[sandydandy]

I really hope people laid off the hyperbole. Hold that thought. It’s not hyperbole anymore. Russian forces are attacking a large power plant which, if it explodes, will make Chernobyl look like a pipsqueak. This is like a dirty bomb. The effects of which will not just be regional.

I think it’s time for NATO to get involved and stop this madness. Fuck it. Whatever happens, happens after that. Putin is maggot shit and needs to be stopped.

[Tom Servo]

People not laying off hyperbole are literally the holocaust.

[FaultyMario]

Oh come on!, more people of the Global South are under more serious threat to their lives because of the imperial excesses of the U.S., China and Russia itself. Where's the "OMG WW3!" hyperbole when a Lockheed Martin rocket blows up a bus full of Yemeni children?

To be clear, Russia does not want to cause a nuclear catastrophe in their own fucking vicinity. They are taking over critical infrastructure to choke their enemy into submission. They're fighting a war, whether the western media likes it or not.

Is war wrong? Yes

Is a war of invasion for territory abhorrent? Ask us Mexicans about it, we might know a thing or two.

Is this fucking war a black and white issue? Are either the Ukrainian or Russian governments innocent victims of this conflict? Are you willing to write a blank check to organizations like the Azov battalion or the Wagner Group?

Lay off the hyperbole and try to get into the nuance of a complex subject, then.

[FaultyMario]

I think it’s time for NATO to get involved and stop this madness. Fuck it. Whatever happens, happens after that. Putin is maggot shit and needs to be stopped.

Why?

Why would a multi lateral military organization that exists only to the defend its member states get involved in a territory in which it has no jurisdiction over and escalate a regional conflict?

Give us one sound reason. One that falls within international law, not one that caters to the bored TV audiences of the Global North.

[FaultyMario]

Why would a multi lateral military organization that exists only to the defend its member states get involved in a territory in which it has no jurisdiction over and escalate a regional conflict?

And don't quote me, this is what the patron saint (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWAnzKtFPkE) of the Woke Empire said:


Our NATO Alliance is not aimed "against" any other nation; we're an alliance of democracies dedicated to our own collective defense. Countries like Estonia and Latvia and Lithuania are not "post-Soviet territory." You are sovereign and independent nations with the right to make your own decisions.

[dodint]

FM is my spirit animal right now. Get em!

[sandydandy]

Why? Because it affects us.

Anyway, looks like the plant is now secure. False alarm.

[MR2 Fan]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340

[MR2 Fan]

I think the main hope right now is that someone from inside Russia takes down Putin without outside involvement.

[FaultyMario]

Because it affects us.

Anyway, looks like the plant is now secure. False alarm.

false alarm? no shit!

[FaultyMario]

I think the main hope right now is that someone from inside Russia takes down Putin without outside involvement.

wait a million years, then!

It was a the western elites that helped the Yeltsin elites derail the Gorbachev transition!!!

You can't blame the rich for lack of class identity! the rich will always help the rich, all over the world.

[dodint]

I think the main hope right now is that someone from inside Russia takes down Putin without outside involvement.

That you, Lindsey?

[FaultyMario]

And Putin has been of great help to the rich.

That's why Hilary doesn't like him, because he does the job way better than her.

[sandydandy]

I think the main hope right now is that someone from inside Russia takes down Putin without outside involvement. Haha. I wouldn’t say stuff like that publicly and in print. You never know who’s reading. Next thing you know a KGB agent is at your door.

We’re all thinking it, of course.

[MR2 Fan]

"takes down" can mean many things....remove him from power peacefully is one

[Crazed_Insanity]

Mario, Mario, Mario, I find your lack of faith in this forum disturbing.

We do have a pretty good track record at this. Remember we called the pandemic before the WHO?

Naturally nobody wants a pandemic or a world war. Hopefully we’re wrong, but I don’t think anybody can say for sure one way or another. Hopefully Putin will get taken down by the rich just like Epstein.

[Jason]

The fact that there’s continuing protests, a boat load of local celebrities, and even some government officials speaking out about this in Russia gives me *some* hope that Putin can be removed from office. But the grip he has on the country is a real challenge.

In the meantime, Ukraine is being burned to the ground. Even if they ‘win’ somehow and force Russia out, the rebuilding process is going to be painful. This whole thing sucks so much. The only positive is that it’s further repaired relations between NATO countries, ones that Trump was threatening and destabilizing.

[FaultyMario]

The fact that there’s continuing protests, a boat load of Hollywood celebrities, and even some government officials speaking out about this in Washington gives me *some* hope that McConnell can be removed from office.

Can you see how idiotic this sounds?

Russia and Ukraine are different countries, different from ours, different between them. We can not expect to explain them using our terms, they have their own dynamics, their government officials are not inherently evil or immaculately good, they are a product of the conditions in their own societies. In the same way that, say, Mitch McConnell is a legitimate representative of a big chunk of America.

[Rare White Ape]

Because it affects us.

Not really. The US should be worried if TU-160s are flying across the arctic circle.

But they aren’t.

The biggest effect that American citizens will feel is a few cents extra on the price of gas when filling up their enormous cars; a situation that could’ve been avoided if renewables were adopted with more fervour in the last decade.

Think about the strategy boffins at the Pentagon and what they’ll be doing right now. There will be more subs lurking under the arctic ice shelf right now than there would have been in the last 30 years thanks to this action, but nothing will come of it. The goal isn’t to stir up the west. It’s about solidifying Russian interests in the east.

This is pretty much a Russia problem. Putin doesn’t want to annex Ukraine and turn it into Russian territory before using it to expand ever outwards and take over the world. He just wants a change of government. They could have easily flattened the whole country by now, but that would obviously be a costly problem to rectify. It literally is no worse than the USA wanting a friendly government in place to give them what they want.

If anyone gets the time, I suggest they open up Google maps and check out Sevastopol, the site of the largest naval base that the Russian military has that isn’t on the Pacific coast or locked by ice in the north. See what it takes to get a warship from there out to the Mediterranean. Realise that Russia probably has a very good relationship with Turkey.

That’s what this invasion is all about.

There will be no WWIII. And China will not invade Taiwan. There is very little consequence to what’s happening now.

[Rare White Ape]

That said, Russia invading Ukraine is a shitty thing to do and causes real harm to the citizens of that country. It should get out now to prevent further hardship. War sucks for everyone except the brass.

This was worth saying in a separate post to enhance my opinion of the matter.

[Yw-slayer]

There will be no WWIII. And China will not invade Taiwan. There is very little consequence to what’s happening now.

Correct, unless you're a "journalist" and need to write some inflammatory headlines to get some CLIKZ Y0. Or some guy whose existence and gaining/maintaining power depends on maintaining western spending on the military and/or rousing the population.

I agree that no-one wants war. The people on the ground suffer while the people play their geopolitical game to stay in power.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I used to think there's about equal(but unlikely) chance for full invasions of Taiwan and Ukraine. Figure Crimea was enough. Russians got their access to the black sea. There was a slight concern that you just might not know what these dictators would do, but what would be the point of flattening a place just for the sake of taking it over?

Well, Russians are trying to flatten the place now.

White cop kneeling on a black suspects neck and killing him is an internal American issue as well. That's just our culture, doesn't mean that we're inherently evil. Probably lots of nuances between black and white.

There probably were a lot of incidences that were just brushed aside hidden under the rug because nobody else saw it. However, unfortunately for America, we now have so many cell phones and social media. No, we can't fix racism just yet, but at least we can bring the perpetrators to justice. If America failed to truly reform its police, surely Americans will continue to fight against that.

Now, let's remove black lives out of the equation. Let's say it's just white police killing white suspects.

Then it's fine for cops to kneel on white necks? Nothing to see here. It's just American cops arresting criminals as usual... :rolleyes:

What's more appalling is that Putin not only kneeled on Ukranian's necks and killing them... and after this is shown to the world. He's now saying what the fuck you gonna do about it? Stay out of my business or else you can get a taste of my nukes.

This fucker has crossed a line that even the likes of Trump/republicans can't praise him anymore. Nothing nuanced about that line. Putin has entered deep into the evil territory. I still don't think NATO is necessary. Surely the West can still be just as united without NATO when this evil happens... and there's little doubt Putin used NATO as excuse to invade. So it is possible that invasion would not occur if NATO was disbanded by Trump. But then again, who could make such prediction. Putin could probably find some other reason to invade...

Anyway, I can understand nobody likes to hear WWIII talk and our pandemic thread originally titled 'WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE' sounded stupid..., but I don't see how you guys can make the prediction of it's not going to happen. Pandemic happened. WWIII could still happen. You guys are not Putin or any of the world leaders. How can you possibly say with such confidence that there will be no WWIII? Not all wars turn into WW for sure, but every WW started out as a regional conflict. I can understand conflict int he Middle East as very nuanced, but Putin is doing some evil shit.

At the very minimum, the rich elites will start to fight each other... and it won't end up well for all of us.

[Blerpa]

Dear lord, how blind you non-europeans are.

Anyhow: Russia economy has been almost at default since months, there's no democracy there and their army? It is piss poor, incompetent and crumbling under their lack of maintenance, development and incapacity of communication.
And russian soldiers are defecting in Ukraine by the numbers.
The russian best division in the army, the 4th battalion, has been nearly almost entirely obliterated.
That is the sheer amount of their incredible debacle, even against a small opponent like the Ukrainian army.

So far Russia's way of conduct the war has been the worst handled one in humankind history, they have lost any kind of face.
Which is comical considering it is the fourth country in the world per army budget.
In case someone is interested in military facts do follow Tim Cooper on Facebook.

What we are worried? The atomic bombs.
European people are split in two sides (I'm not even counting the novax morons that are looking up to Putin, confused by the fake news Russia has been spread in years to weaken european social strenght): "Oh, this is terrible, but we must not go to war. War is bad, mmkay? We all should love each other" and "Let's find a way to avoid the atomics and then pulverize Russia like Carthago.".

I'm in the second camp.
Fearful of the atomic retaliation.
But 100% faithful in the vast span of difference in quality between the biggest european countries armies (Italy, Germany and the biggest of them all: France) and the lacklustre, obsolete, surclassed value of all the russian army sectors.

Aviation? Russia can't compete at all with 5 gen fighters and aircraft quality from the Western block.
Navy? The only trouble are their submarine force (for which italian antisub newest frigates are on the job), the rest of their navy is in shambles.
Army? Dear lord, afghans and talibans are better equipped. And they have already lost their best battalion.
Tanks? They have numbers, but their vehicles are badly kept and quality of training is abysmal.
Strategy? They have fucked up so far any move, day by day, at a suicidal rate, incredibly boosting the moral of overwhelmed ukrainian force. Gerasimov is a laughing stock.
Russian soldier morale? Inexistant.
Russian civil population agreement on the war? Nil.
Belarus people as well, lead by a tyrant puppet with Putin's hand inside his arse.

That's what corruption and putting people with money but no competence do to your country.

China? China does not want anything to do with it, like "Dude, you called this on yourself, tough shit".
And Bejing won't, for a single second, think of jeopardize their commercial relationships with US and Europe, no matter what kind of leverage and advantage could get in the actual situation regarding to Taiwan.
Heck, even Iran and ex president Ahmadinejab has sided with Ukraine.
And Turkey has sided with Europe.
Sweden and Finland are debating about getting in NATO.
Kosovo has officially asked to be in NATO and asked for a permanent Nato base on its territory.
Moldavia is following suit.
Switzerland, historically neutral, has sided with Ukraine and promised money and materials to Ukraine.

The moron is alone, with his Mini-me Lukašėnka, and timid backing by Syria.

A good majority of europeans are fed up with it and we want to tear up a new hole in the fucker head.
We expect non-european anglosaxons to wake up and snap a year or so behind, as usual in World Wars and major continental conflicts.

[Blerpa]

Also, Europe is at fault too: we should have obliterated him in 2014, instead of looking at the other side because of money and gas furniture.

[FaultyMario]

There will be no WWIII. And China will not invade Taiwan. There is very little consequence to what’s happening now.

I think Uncle Xi's gamble is to slowly chip away at it, using HK as the model, "See, we can all be one big happy family".

[Crazed_Insanity]

When Uncle Xi grow old and running out of time, it's hard to say whether if he'll repeat Putin's mistake or not...

Future is too hard to predict, but I think at the moment, Xi probably won't pull a Putin right now. However, if somehow Chinese economy runs into trouble, who knows what will happen.

Regarding the HK model, Taiwanese became a lot more defensive after witnessing the HK model. Hence the pro-china party lost power in Taiwan. And it's quite funny the current pro-china party was the party who fought the communists to begin with( and the party that lost and fled to Taiwan). My parents came along with them. Yet, today, they seemed to have forgotten what they were fighting for and why they were fleeing... and the communists on the other side have now became capitalists. Money makes the world go around I guess.

I heard there's a russian tycoon placed a $1million bounty on Putin's head. Hope the bounty hunter succeeds.

[dodint]

Lest Blerpa enjoy the view from his high horse too long, remind him that they carved a spot for Prada (luxury) bags to be exempt from the sanctions so Italy can still sell them by the truckload to oligarchs. :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

What Prada's doing doesn't necessarily mean Blerpa must be on a high horse, right?

If even Trump can no longer praise Putin, this thing should no longer be that nuanced.

Anyway, it's clear people's minds won't be swayed. I do hope this conflict won't eventually spill over and will simply end with a lot of Ukrainians and Russians dying senselessly. That'd be the happiest possible ending of this story.

[mk]

Nokian Tyres has a problem, its biggest factory is in Russia.

[Tom Servo]

Lest Blerpa enjoy the view from his high horse too long, remind him that they carved a spot for Prada (luxury) bags to be exempt from the sanctions so Italy can still sell them by the truckload to oligarchs. :lol:

Pretty sure that was initially, but a week ago the Italian prime minister said they had no intention of doing any carve-outs like that. I think Belgium was the same, initially wanting an exception for diamonds but getting on board with everyone else after a day or two.

[Rikadyn]

I think the biggest miss step is that the west did not step in during the first few hours of the invasion(or as blerpa said, 2014).

He would have still thought he had a chance outside of the nuke threats

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think the biggest missteps were continual existence of NATO post-cold war or rejecting/ignoring Putin's application for NATO membership. You keep on bullying this social outcast, eventually he's going to become a mass shooter...

2nd biggest misstep was meddling around in Russia and Ukraine. Trump cronies along with Biden's son..., that was just amazingly stupid. If Putin sees Ukraine as his girlfriend and seeing her sleeping with the West, what do you think an abusive boyfriend would do?

As stupid or as poor steps as they were, Ukraine still shouldn't deserve getting flattened like this.

This is no longer a simple regional domestic dispute. Putin is clearly capable of mass shooting up the world.

NATO probably should just promise Putin that Ukraine will never ever be allowed to join NATO; however, if invaded, then Ukraine will automatically become a NATO member.

I think the only way I'd support NATO is to make it a world police... rather than allowing US to be the world's police. Yes, if US invades Mexico again, NATO forces ought to be able to fight for Mexico. NATO charter should simply be to maintain justice and peace, not to just focus on any one particular country. It'd be like UN, but with more military teeth to actually force nations to comply to do the right thing.

Fairy tale I know..., but better than current version of NATO. US controlled and with guns and missiles aimed right at Russia right next door!

[Jason]

Can you see how idiotic this sounds?

Russia and Ukraine are different countries, different from ours, different between them. We can not expect to explain them using our terms, they have their own dynamics, their government officials are not inherently evil or immaculately good, they are a product of the conditions in their own societies. In the same way that, say, Mitch McConnell is a legitimate representative of a big chunk of America.

To be fair, I said *some* hope, not that I think it’s realistic. I’m not really sure where this ends, because people like Putin don’t generally go quiet into the wind.

[sandydandy]

Pretty sure that was initially, but a week ago the Italian prime minister said they had no intention of doing any carve-outs like that. I think Belgium was the same, initially wanting an exception for diamonds but getting on board with everyone else after a day or two. I say let the oligarchs have Vouis Luitton from now on. Made in China.

[Tom Servo]

Weird but I guess not entirely unexpected side effect of Russian advertising/money being cut off by places like Facebook - the top 10 performing link posts on Facebook pretty much every day are a collection of ones from Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and Dan Bongino. Over the past few days, they've been conspicuously absent from that top 10.

'Course, that's lead to the equally unfortunate Occupy Democrats taking a bunch of the top spots...

[Yw-slayer]

I think Uncle Xi's gamble is to slowly chip away at it, using HK as the model, "See, we can all be one big happy family".

I can assure you that Hong Kong's mini-constitution (as agreed before, and then implemented since, 1997) provides that it "is an inalienable part of the People's Republic of China". The NPC has however authorised the govt to exercise a high degree of autonomy. Ultimately, it was Billi's Brainwashed Bros who screwed themselves over thanks to 2019.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Speaking of Xi’s republic of China, thanks to his best buddy Putin, his dream: belt and road initiative , at least the road part, is probably now ruined because the road part had to go thru Russia…

Xi’ll probably blame the Nazi Trump and his buddies for being so so mean with their sanctions…

China really needs to rise to the occasion and show the world how to really lead, this is the perfect opportunity. I hope China won’t screw it up by continuing to side with Putin.

[dodint]

Weird but I guess not entirely unexpected side effect of Russian advertising/money being cut off by places like Facebook - the top 10 performing link posts on Facebook pretty much every day are a collection of ones from Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and Dan Bongino. Over the past few days, they've been conspicuously absent from that top 10.

'Course, that's lead to the equally unfortunate Occupy Democrats taking a bunch of the top spots...

https://twitter.com/markhachman/status/1500219551115448320

[Rare White Ape]

Couple of good videos that came across my desk this morning. The first one is perhaps the most interesting to watch, but the second has a lot of good and deep info.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4wRdoWpw0w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khZVuIQEQ50

[Tom Servo]

https://twitter.com/markhachman/status/1500219551115448320

That's fair. While I think it does make you wonder why Ben Shapiro is talking about Ukraine while the other three apparently aren't so they're not seeing the same bump in engagement, it's all speculative at this point.

[Rare White Ape]

The disinformation is strong.

The story of the Ukrainian woman with the sunflower seeds, the people on that island who told the sailors on the Russian warship to 'go fuck yourselves' before dying (and then the revelation that they may still be alive), or the one about the LED signs on the highway reading the same phrase...

...all probably not true, designed to fill in the misinformation gap left open after tech companies started closing off Russian access to social media after the invasion. If you keep people occupied with harmless little stories like that, it helps to prevent the spread of more harmful misinformation that could actually lead to Russia gaining any advantage in the war. On top of this, these stories can build morale in a population, a very important tool.

In the first video I linked above, it shows that the Urkanian government is literally turning to Twitter to tell their citizens how to fight against the Russian supply chain, with info about what their fuel trucks look like and where to direct your Molotovs, and what the actual frequencies are for their military comms after others tried to mislead them.

This war is the first social media war, with the likes of Microsoft, Meta, and Twitter all playing a significant role here. It's very bizarre, and nothing like what you see in Call of Duty.

[Crazed_Insanity]

No question Russians/Putin would love to sow discord within US, but all conservatives can’t be Russian agents and all progressives can’t be Russian assets. Trump and his team of people were definitely suspicious of course, but helping conservatives win may not always be that great for Russian since last time it was a Republican president that caused the USSR to collapse.

[sandydandy]

Not really. Just to clarify, I was reacting (perhaps overreacting) to the news about the large power plant fire that, if exploded, would definitely affect the world because of the radiation. Thankfully it was contained. Now Russia has control of it.

I sort of supported Putin at the beginning of this because I thought his concerns were legitimate, now I can’t find the logic anymore to defend him. He’s out of his mind, and his people are suffering. What exactly is the endgame here?

[Rare White Ape]

Just to clarify, I was reacting (perhaps overreacting) to the news about the large power plant fire that, if exploded, would definitely affect the world because of the radiation. Thankfully it was contained. Now Russia has control of it.

Ahh fair enough.

[Yw-slayer]

Don't forget the BBC journalist happily circulating on twitter a leaflet identifying weak spots on Russian armour for Ukrainians with molotovs to target.

https://twitter.com/BowenBBC/status/1499668674940133378?t=fqRlZKESKFoiXcIaoq_Y2g&s=19

How is this even allowed? Mind asplode

[mk]

Just to clarify, I was reacting (perhaps overreacting) to the news about the large power plant fire that, if exploded, would definitely affect the world because of the radiation. Thankfully it was contained. Now Russia has control of it.

I sort of supported Putin at the beginning of this because I thought his concerns were legitimate, now I can’t find the logic anymore to defend him. He’s out of his mind, and his people are suffering. What exactly is the endgame here?

I think Russians are still too peons or individuals to revolt, few decades of oppression do wonders.
Somehow it's still not their war, maybe because it's abroad, maybe because of propaganda.
Is their country their country, partly yes but no idea how they feel after that.

Palace coup, not likely, inner circle is tight.

So regime out by something else or peace treaty.
Peace treaty when, later.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Don't forget the BBC journalist happily circulating on twitter a leaflet identifying weak spots on Russian armour for Ukrainians with molotovs to target.

https://twitter.com/BowenBBC/status/1499668674940133378?t=fqRlZKESKFoiXcIaoq_Y2g&s=19

How is this even allowed? Mind asplode

Why was that so mind blowing?

[Tom Servo]

Ukrainians Find That Relatives in Russia Don’t Believe It’s a War (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-russia-families.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAA AACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DO Dm4ciPsSGYyMvErQf617apwu3C6SRdlMdaUyX-dzx6pRNklsTwilud2EhJEBaW0TmL6EY1kXjdjLTKxqtnjjdHW4 I-Nyg7DusRzZb2jgRKbc2SI-IAln8o9vdlr8xSZfzvrOEO5wj4R52ewzRcwvHUd2byeBuPLjCh 9-KY_GOkmasl9qLrkfDTLDntec6KYCchFQDj_GTHB55mU94bBMKY 9dffa_f1N7Jp2I0fhGAXdoLYypG5Q3W4HT8r5purPJohaGo9Gk fFdW9sfmll3kL_pc64Zw9A&smid=url-share)

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russian-banks-may-issue-cards-with-chinas-unionpay-visa-mastercard-cut-links-2022-03-06/

China doesn’t believe there’s a war there too. As visa/Mastercard cease their services in Russia, Chinese payment services will step in and help Russians out. How very thoughtful of the Chinese.

I do feel kinda bad for Russian tourists caught in all this. Imagine you go on a holiday vacation and then all of a sudden not only can’t you fly back home but all of your credit cards cease to work while stuck in a foreign land indefinitely… will you still be able to get help from Russian embassy?

Anyway, for sure Ukrainians still are suffering more though…

All for what? I still do not understand…

[MR2 Fan]

re: the BBC Journalist

It's possibly akin to "taking sides" which proper journalists shouldn't do....but that seems to have flown out the window decades ago

[sandydandy]

I think Russians are still too peons or individuals to revolt, few decades of oppression do wonders.
Somehow it's still not their war, maybe because it's abroad, maybe because of propaganda.
Is their country their country, partly yes but no idea how they feel after that.

Palace coup, not likely, inner circle is tight.

So regime out by something else or peace treaty.
Peace treaty when, later. Only choice is for Ukraine to defeat Russia in total war. Possible, however unlikely.

Or for Zelenskyy to accept his fate and bow before Putin and agree to never join NATO, and fully concede Crimea in the process, forcing the world to finally recognize it as Russian territory. Russia withdraws victorious.

My sixth sense tells me that Putin still wouldn't withdraw and might try to expand even further. He's a snake who can't be trusted.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, whatever happens to Ukraine, Taiwan will probably suffer a similar fate. Will authoritarian superpowers win? Or will the freedumb fighters prevail? Really don't know. I only know which side YW is rooting for.

Well, at least NATO should protect Poland in the future I hope. Too bad Ukraine missed the boat. Sanctions and weapons delivery and Twitter feeds from BBC are all we can do...

Anyway, what's happening is still just so odd...

[sandydandy]

Yeah, whatever happens to Ukraine, Taiwan will probably suffer a similar fate. Will authoritarian superpowers win? Or will the freedumb fighters prevail? Really don't know. I only know which side YW is rooting for.

Well, at least NATO should protect Poland in the future I hope. Too bad Ukraine missed the boat. Sanctions and weapons delivery and Twitter feeds from BBC are all we can do...

Anyway, what's happening is still just so odd... Uhh, I don't consider the Ukrainians to be "freedumb" fighters. They're not like stupid people here complaining about masks and vaccines. This is life and death. They're brave people and a shining example to the rest of the world.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Putin probably sees them as inconvenient ‘truckers’ in the way of overall good of his country, uniting Russia… his motherland had been divided by the West and these Ukrainians are just too brainwashed and stupid to see that…

Granted, Justin didn’t actually kill anybody so I’m not equating him as Putin, but the fight is kind of similar.

I just think civilized worlds should be able to discuss this in a more civilized manner rather than resorting to killing women and children and flattening towns…

That’s where Putin crossed the line…

[Tom Servo]

Well, that's certainly a hot take, isn't it.

[sandydandy]

https://youtu.be/TzgPJeYZaOU

Don't know if this has been shared before, (maybe in the Politics thread), but it's on point. This is why I supported Putin at the outset, but it doesn't justify purposely killing civilians. That's where he loses my support.

[Yw-slayer]

Lol hilarious that Billi trying to make himself the centre of attention again. Missing the halcyon 10k2 days of his Brainwashed Bros getting the fawning media attention disguised as "journalism". A bit like BBC reposting a leaflet on how to molotov a tank.

Also "brave freedom fighters" lol HMMM WHERE HAVE I HEARD THAT BEFORE I WONDER

[Crazed_Insanity]

https://youtu.be/TzgPJeYZaOU

Don't know if this has been shared before, (maybe in the Politics thread), but it's on point. This is why I supported Putin at the outset, but it doesn't justify purposely killing civilians. That's where he loses my support.

I’m not sure if I was ever a supporter of Putin, but I do believe NATO probably should cease to exist after Cold War, or accept Russia as a member also! ;)

However, if Russia can demonstrate willingness to destroy Ukraine for all to see, then I guess NATO’s existence perhaps is justified.

Unless Putin is planning something more sinister, he has royally screwed up and has dug a grave for himself.

It’d suck real bad if Putin wins and the West treats Ukraine as just another Crimea in the end… if so, then I’d worry about the fate of Taiwan. UN doesn’t even see Taiwan as a sovereign nation… so Xi can do whatever he wants!

Hopefully the world has figured out the chip shortage problem before that invasion…

[Tom Servo]

Yes, we get it. You think NATO should have ceased to exist.

It truly is Ukraine's fault to try to join a treaty organization that might prevent Russia from invading as that caused...Russia...to...invade.

I wonder if NATO has a provision to stop you from saying that for the tenth or eleventh time in the past couple of days?

At the very least, repeating the same thing over and over again with no new twist or evidence or anything *has* to be a violation of the Geneva Convention, right?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I don’t appreciate you putting words in my mouth. Never said it’s Ukraine’s fault, it’s US’s fault for expanding it after winning Cold War. US meddling with their politics was not a good idea either.

We don’t like it when others do it to us, yet we keep on doing to others…

[Tom Servo]

Fair enough, though then that makes even less sense. "Hey, we don't like what the US is doing, so we'll bomb the shit out of you instead."

My point stands though. We're all clear on your NATO stance. You have made very sure of that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Like I said earlier, Justin doesn't like what the Corona Virus is doing, so he's 'invading' Canadians with vaccines for their own good. However, at least Justin is not murdering his people like Putin is doing. (Unless vaccines are so bad that it's killing people more than the virus and govt still mandate such lousy vaccine...) Anyway, Putin really crossed the line there. His action has also now completely justified the existence of NATO.

This thing still doesn't quite make sense to me and I think even those expert analysts of Putin are probably at a lost too. I was just responding to Sandy, I'm not sure what you're so upset about. Given these trying times, I think I should just avoid 'repeating' myself in political and WWIII thread I guess. People are upset already so most probably don't need to see my political commentary 'repeatedly'. I can agree with you there. So signing out of these 2 threads until Putin is dead.

[Godson]

Jfc, how many disjointed metaphors can you squeeze into a statement?

[Tom Servo]

It's not so much that we see your political commentary repeatedly, it's that you keep repeating the same political commentary.

[Rare White Ape]

https://i.imgur.com/xDdzkP7.jpg

[Rare White Ape]

If anything, the military strategists of the world will be paying plenty of attention to this rare and modern example of warfare in a well-equipped, but small and determined nation, and furiously taking notes.

[Yw-slayer]

“Well-equipped” includes aid from a bunch of other powerful countries (some of which also encourage their civilians to contribute) and the propaganda backing of most of the world’s English-language mainstream media.

[mk]

One other well equipped seems to have more destroyer class yachts and less regular class diesel trucks.

[KillerB]

Lol hilarious that Billi trying to make himself the centre of attention again. Missing the halcyon 10k2 days of his Brainwashed Bros getting the fawning media attention disguised as "journalism". A bit like BBC reposting a leaflet on how to molotov a tank.

Also "brave freedom fighters" lol HMMM WHERE HAVE I HEARD THAT BEFORE I WONDER

I literally laughed out loud when I saw the perpetual motion machine of circular arguments between the sane and Billi were still going strong all these years later. Are you saying this is actually a rare event? Or is he still like 15% of all posts around here?

PS - I'm glad my wife and I went to Russia (quite by accident, actually) when we did, because I really can't foresee returning there anytime soon. Too bad, because we definitely left wanting to see so much more than we had time to.

PPS - Not getting sucked into an argument; that said, while I can see why Russia might not want Ukraine in NATO, they've already got NATO on their border in the Baltic states. As for the argument that there's no such thing as Ukrainians, that they're really Russian - I grew up in an area with a lot of descendants of Eastern European immigrants, and we had enough Ukrainian-Americans that the small town I grew up in had a Ukrainian Orthodox Catholic church where everything was in Ukrainian. Many of those folks ancestors came over before Ukraine existed as an independent country (pre-Soviet times - i.e., Imperial Russia) and yet there was a clear Ukrainian identity and language.

The irony is that Putin has probably galvanized the democratic parts of Europe against the idea that maybe autocracy isn't so bad after all. I actually think that the Biden administration and the CIA have been pretty savvy in basically blasting their intelligence out in public, and quietly encouraging our European allies to take the lead on most of this.

Finally, not sure if it's been mentioned here (it's not much fun reading posts from people I respect when they're all stuck replying to Billi's insipid nonsense) but Boeing and Airbus refusing to supply or support Russia's airline industry is a bigger deal than I think the media's made it out to be. Russia isn't going to go back to flying Tupolevs and that's an awfully big country to not have a functioning airline industry.

I know I'm rambling so I'll just say: Fuck Putin and his minions, but I know that this isn't what the majority of Russians want. I feel for them as they really had no say in their politics over the past decade-and-a-half, and they're going to suffer greatly from an economic perspective, even if they don't have to face bombs landing on their soil.

[Rare White Ape]

I think he’s up to around 30%. The server gets warm and has to throttle down when he logs on.

[KillerB]

I think he’s up to around 30%. The server gets warm and has to throttle down when he logs on.

We need to find a way to harness this power; just think how rich Russ could have been (he still runs this place, right?) had Billi been spending the last decade-plus put his effort into mining Bitcoin?

[Rare White Ape]

Also the Boeing/Airbus thing hasn’t been mentioned as far as I’m aware.

That could go further towards slowing things down than most of the other measures.

[KillerB]

Also the Boeing/Airbus thing hasn’t been mentioned as far as I’m aware.

That could go further towards slowing things down than most of the other measures.

Not sure if you mean on this forum or just that it hasn't come up much in the media in general, but Reuters sums it up pretty well: https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeing-suspends-parts-maintenance-russian-airlines-its-aviation-sector-isolated-2022-03-02/

[Tom Servo]

Hey, this harness Billi power thing might be the key to the spiking gas prices around here...

I saw an article a week or so ago basically saying that with Boeing and Airbus pulling out of Russia that it'd mean Aeroflot could continue running for maybe 3-4 more weeks before running out of parts for maintenance and such. It also mentioned that as they're cut off of the international banking system, they may find it harder and harder to pay for usage of international airports. On top of all that, all the airspace that's now restricted for Russian aircraft, it's one of the more devastating sanctions/business actions that have happened so far, IMHO.

I still think the NATO thing is just a convenient excuse for something Putin's wanted to do for a while and his anger at not having one of his stooges running Ukraine anymore, but it might be the key to a cease-fire where Putin can save face. Ukraine agree to not join NATO for x number of years in exchange for Russian forces pulling out.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’m still powering down in these threads until Putin’s dead, but just want to chime in about this Boeing situation…

There’s a Boeing Ukraine and Boeing Russia employing bunch of engineers doing ground support… such as if airlines bumped into something, they’d call in and ask how to properly repair their planes…

Thanks to the war and sanctions, the cheap labors are no longer available. Of course Boeing is trying to utilizes engineers else where, but surely there won’t be any smooth transitions. So expect some delays to happen even in our territories.

Okay, that’s it. Billi powering back down so you guys can enjoy your regular programming already in progress!

[Yw-slayer]

We need to find a way to harness this power; just think how rich Russ could have been (he still runs this place, right?) had Billi been spending the last decade-plus put his effort into mining Bitcoin?

1. Contact Russ
2. Harness Billi energy
3. ???
4. Profit

Welcome back, man.

[KillerB]

Hey, this harness Billi power thing might be the key to the spiking gas prices around here...

I saw an article a week or so ago basically saying that with Boeing and Airbus pulling out of Russia that it'd mean Aeroflot could continue running for maybe 3-4 more weeks before running out of parts for maintenance and such. It also mentioned that as they're cut off of the international banking system, they may find it harder and harder to pay for usage of international airports. On top of all that, all the airspace that's now restricted for Russian aircraft, it's one of the more devastating sanctions/business actions that have happened so far, IMHO.

I still think the NATO thing is just a convenient excuse for something Putin's wanted to do for a while and his anger at not having one of his stooges running Ukraine anymore, but it might be the key to a cease-fire where Putin can save face. Ukraine agree to not join NATO for x number of years in exchange for Russian forces pulling out.

Agreed. Getting Putin to an off-ramp where he can claim some kind of victory is paramount to get this over quickly, and I'm just not seeing a great one in sight. At this stage, I don't really think promising not have Ukraine join NATO is going to be acceptable to Ukraine's leadership or the Western democracies, unless Russia manages to bring down the government in Kyiv.

One addition to the conversation about airliners - apparently the EU sanctions are requiring aircraft lessors to pull their leased planes by March 28. Airlines often don't own their planes, instead they lease them. According to that Reuters report, over 500 of the airliners operated by Russian airlines are leased, which will be another large blow to Russia's airline industry.

[KillerB]

1. Contact Russ
2. Harness Billi energy
3. ???
4. Profit

Welcome back, man.


Pretty much! Thank you - it's good to be back. This is the sort of "social media" that I've been missing.

[Rare White Ape]

I echo the welcome back sentiment as well :)


At this stage, I don't really think promising not have Ukraine join NATO is going to be acceptable to Ukraine's leadership or the Western democracies, unless Russia manages to bring down the government in Kyiv.

Option B: let this early phase of the war play out a bit and see what kind of stamina the surprisingly embattled Russian military has, and then just wait it out. Ukraine could defend itself and happily waltz into NATO membership in a year while Russia does that thing you do when you're almost out of Monopoly money and start selling assets to try and pay rent for the square you landed on.

They won't use nukes. Trust me on that.

[FaultyMario]

Yeah, well maybe the Russian airlines can put in a feeler with Antonov?

[Jason]

Re the airline stuff, saw this on reddit:

https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/16063-russia-absconds-with-10bn-in-aircraft-in-response-to-eu-sanctions

So basically, after being cut off, they're going to steal the jets that are currently in Russia and use them until they don't work anymore? Russia is going to end up as Larger North Korea soon

[FaultyMario]

Russia is going to end up as Larger North Korea soon

No. Russia is never going to end up a hermit nation, ever. That's like saying the German Empire was isolated after it was defeated in WW1. Many things will happen before Russia is a "larger North Korea".

Why do you swallow your shit sandwich so feverishly?

[Jason]

If by that you mean have my own opinions, probably because I'm a human and humans have opinions

Personally I think the world, and context of the situation is a bit different than post WWI Germany. Considering that was 100 years ago, and there's pretty big economical, political and geographical differences between the two situations. But I admit, I'm not at all an expert on the situation, so if you have some enlightenment you'd like to share, I'm more than willing to read it.

[dodint]

The last two posts make me want to give Jason a hug. :lol:

[Jason]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Guess I'll see my way out :lol:

[sandydandy]

No. Russia is never going to end up a hermit nation, ever. That's like saying the German Empire was isolated after it was defeated in WW1. Many things will happen before Russia is a "larger North Korea".

Why do you swallow your shit sandwich so feverishly? :erm: Is it your time of the month?

You need to chill, bro. You're being unnecessarily nasty to a lot of people in this thread.

[FaultyMario]

I am not an expert either. But I can definitely say that:

a) Vladimir Putin is a politician, not a thug. Politics is this ancient art where people take on the role of agents who act on behalf of the interests within their society. Your president, my prime minister, their chancellor is exercising the agency of the powers within their constituency. Russian groups of interest happen to stem from the energy and agribusiness sectors, which although they might not be very different from those in America, the way in which they conduct themselves with the world may or may not be different. In my very humble opinion, Putin the power broker is no different from the Clintons (who have dominated American politics for the last generation).

b) The Russian Federation is a very influential nation-state. Her economy might be suffering right now because her elites have been dicks for a sort of a long time, but it hasn't been long enough to make them a faded glory nation like, say, Hungary. If anyone thinks that a society so rich in population, natural and cultural forms of capital is going to end up like Cuba or North Korea, they're speaking out of their ass. That's why the French Republic, the German Empire and Japan rebounded back to their place in history after their own times of sorrow.

c) A territorial invasion is always a dick move. This invasion was preventable. The resulting death and destruction is on everyone's hands, it's on Putin largely, but it's also on Biden and Macron and Zelensky. They're a bunch of fucking lukewarm idiots who thought they could play chicken with Putin.

What I cannot do with any degree of certainty is venture a hypothesis of what the fuck the western powers are trying to achieve with this economic war.

[FaultyMario]

You're being unnecessarily nasty to a lot of people in this thread.

I'm sorry if I come across as nasty. I sincerely apologize for it.

Do however take into account that us in the global south take a very different look at conflict in the north. You (the privileged global North) are making our lives shittier, we're barely making it out of a pandemic that was disastrously handled by the world's rich and then here come the economic shocks from all that douchebaggery in Eastern Europe. Why must NATO force its way into the gateway to another world, why? Why put the world at risk, why?

And to my brothers and sisters here: Why do you have to uncritically repeat the narrative coming out of the mouthpieces of the rich? Please question everything you see on the media, and that includes social media! Who calls the Russian Oligarchs that? Well, the Western Oligarchs do. Who pays for war with their lives? Well, the poor of the world do.

[Tom Servo]

Well, if he's not a thug, Russia has a real serious safety issue with windows.

[mk]

I just watched very good few years old lecture about Russia.

Since mongols took over to this day the very small fraction of Russian timeline is democratic, sort of.

Mongol rule though that surviving is violence, corruption and lying.

Lenin thought how to probe with bayonets.

Russians have two truths and three lies.

Moscow is third Rome.

[sandydandy]

I'm sorry if I come across as nasty. I sincerely apologize for it. All good, dude. :cool:

[drew]

He had me at shit sandwich.

[Dicknose]

a) Vladimir Putin is a politician, not a thug. Politics is this ancient art where people take on the role of agents who act on behalf of the interests within their society. Your president, my prime minister, their chancellor is exercising the agency of the powers within their constituency. Russian groups of interest happen to stem from the energy and agribusiness sectors, which although they might not be very different from those in America, the way in which they conduct themselves with the world may or may not be different. In my very humble opinion, Putin the power broker is no different from the Clintons (who have dominated American politics for the last generation).

I think Putin has moved from politician to a megalomaniac. I think he is past acting on behalf of Russians and acting on building his power and legacy. I think he hoped to be the person who lead Russia back to glory.
This action is clearly not in the best interest of most Russians, not in the short term, not in the long term.

It seems mostly about his ego.

When leaders have got to a stage where they have entrenched their power and are effectively dictators, they often go on power crazy trips.
This can happen with democratic politicians and leaders.
Considering him as a typical politician is how we got into this situation.

This wont end unless Putin can save face or he is removed from power. I can't see him being removed from power easily (or even alive) and I dont see him as the sort of person who would back down after such a bold move.

[Leon]

Petrol jumping here by an estimated 10% in one hit today.

[Yw-slayer]

Mario, my brother, the problem is that not everyone (even our friends who presumably mean well) reads beyond certain viewpoints, or even worse have to face a reality where alternative viewpoints are suppressed.

[FaultyMario]

This wont end unless Putin can save face or he is removed from power. I can't see him being removed from power easily (or even alive) and I dont see him as the sort of person who would back down after such a bold move.

True Sandwich.

[Godson]

Wait, didn't Putin poison some of his political opponents?

How is that not thug behavior?

[MR2 Fan]

I know it's not apparently the right time to say this as I don't see anyone talking about it...but man, the innocent Russian people are also going to be really messed over by this whole situation.

No they're not getting bombed but I wouldn't want to be them right now either.

[Tom Servo]

Oh yeah. There are a lot of Russian people who don't want this and will suffer due to it. Even here in the US, there are people going after places like Russian restaurants even though they almost all don't support the war.

My wife went to a small trade show type deal put on by a Ukrainian woman that she goes to for something or other. She had a couple of Russian women there too selling things and was going to great pains to make sure people knew they weren't in favor of the war.

[Yw-slayer]

I know it's not apparently the right time to say this as I don't see anyone talking about it...

No, this is exactly the right time to say it, particularly when much of the English-language global media appear to be ignoring it entirely in favour of fanning anger against the country and its people, and/or sympathy for the other country and its people.

[Tom Servo]

I'd say almost everything I'm seeing in the media here is putting the blame solely on Putin's shoulders and often highlighting that a fair bit of the Russian populace are not on board with this. The general sentiment I'm seeing in my usual news sources is "What the fuck was Putin thinking?", not "Russians are evil."

[Yw-slayer]

That in itself is propaganda. Even if it's slightly less harmful than the Trumpist type rubbish. Not everyone has the same point of view in every country, especially in a country with large populations, and even in places with different systems of government.

[Tom Servo]

It may be, but honestly I haven't heard a lot of compelling arguments in Putin's favor, no matter how many of Trump's cronies and the QAnon types push 'em.

[Yw-slayer]

Maybe. But having experienced events for myself where almost every report fr one side was boiled down to ultra-simplistic Grade-2 level "Star Wars Good v Evil" bullshit self-congratulatory self-fellating circle-jerk propaganda, I will now readily assume the same of most "reporting" nowadays. There's always an angle or agenda and nothing is ever reported in an "objective" fashion. Especially when geopolitics is involved.

[Cam]

AP or Reuters are as neutral as they get.

[Tom Servo]

Maybe. But having experienced events for myself where almost every report fr one side was boiled down to ultra-simplistic Grade-2 level "Star Wars Good v Evil" bullshit self-congratulatory self-fellating circle-jerk propaganda, I will now readily assume the same of most "reporting" nowadays. There's always an angle or agenda and nothing is ever reported in an "objective" fashion. Especially when geopolitics is involved.

That almost sounds like some post-truth world where, because it's reported, it has to be false. Even if there are only two possibilities, like "Russia attacked Ukraine" and "Russia did not attack Ukraine", because both have been reported by some news agency somewhere neither is true.

[FaultyMario]

There's always an angle or agenda and nothing is ever reported in an "objective" fashion. Especially when geopolitics is involved.

You think?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNnkpmdUcAIfigB.jpg (https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2021/12/09/biden-must-push-back-on-mexican-president-amlos-energy-imperialism/)

[Tom Servo]

That's an opinion piece. They're kinda supposed to have biases, that's why they're opinions.

[Yw-slayer]

That almost sounds like some post-truth world where, because it's reported, it has to be false. Even if there are only two possibilities, like "Russia attacked Ukraine" and "Russia did not attack Ukraine", because both have been reported by some news agency somewhere neither is true.

Nah, I just treat everything with a massive dose of scepticism and always bear in mind that everyone has an agenda. I also don't live in a fairytale world where one side is "JEDI WARRIORS" and the other side is "OMG ENDNOFNTJE WORLD DARKNSIDE SHIT".

[FaultyMario]

That's an opinion piece. They're kinda supposed to have biases, that's why they're opinions.

Even if the opinion is fallacious?

Deer Park Refinery was owned 51-49 by a Shell-Pemex partnership, and like 80% of its output was already being sold to Pemex. The opinion piece fails to mention that and then goes on to make exaggerate claims like "energy imperialism" or disingenuous ones like "the deal was made in secret".

[Tom Servo]

Plenty of opinion journalism is based on bullshit. Look at Tucker Carlson. They literally argued in court that what he says shouldn't be interpreted as fact.

One trick there is look at the byline. George Baker is platform director for Energia.com and publishes something called Mexico Energy Intelligence, "The Houston Perspective on Mexico's Energy Sector". Energia cites Heritage Foundation for some of their stuff, a far-right think tank. Also, Baker appears to be the *only* person involved in Energia, I don't see any other people listed on their site.

That's obvious propaganda and basically a "I'll write an article for free if you'll publish it on your news website." On the plus side, it's clearly labeled as such. I'd say that's vastly different from actual "reporting." I am a little surprised that the Dallas Morning News would print this though, they're usually a better news source than that.

[FaultyMario]

Fair enough.

[Yw-slayer]

The worst is if there's allegedly "factual" "reporting" but it's clearly meant to evoke some sort of response. That should immediately be cause for immediate scepticism. See: CNN.

[Tom Servo]

I mean, I think overall we can classify all the 24-hour cable news as garbage. That said, I do like Daniel Dale, the guy CNN hired from I believe the Toronto Star, as a fact checker. He's really good.

The biggest problem I think we run into here is that the rush to be the first to break something means often reporting it before all the facts are known. Kinda like that whole story about the Ukrainians stationed on an island telling the Russian warship to go fuck itself. We already know that information coming out of any conflict zone is going to be dodgy, but nobody wants to be the last to report something lest they lose out in the ratings.

[Rare White Ape]

Putin has started to arrest members of the Russian foreign intelligence agency. Apparently the blame is being laid upon them for the protracted invasion of Ukraine.

[Tom Servo]

The true authoritarian's version of Trump's badmouthing of everyone he hired and then got rid of.

[Rare White Ape]

Yep, well, they do that sort of thing in North Korea too.

(In all seriousness it's actually quite common and possibly legal for governments of the day to arrest military and intelligence chiefs and punish them for failures of the military. I posted about it here to highlight how badly the invasion has progressed and that Putin recognises this)

[Yw-slayer]

Wait, isn't it good if people are held accountable for their failures? Or is it only OK when one side does it but not when the other side does it?

Or is it OK that no-one has been held accountable for the Iraqi WMD lies, but it's NOT OK when people in other countries are held responsible for intelligence failures?

HMMM ONE WONDERS

[SportWagon]

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/french-poutinerie-tells-customers-it-s-not-linked-to-russian-president-after-threats-1.5804493

[Godson]

Wait, isn't it good if people are held accountable for their failures? Or is it only OK when one side does it but not when the other side does it?

Or is it OK that no-one has been held accountable for the Iraqi WMD lies, but it's NOT OK when people in other countries are held responsible for intelligence failures?

HMMM ONE WONDERS



The comparison you are claiming isn't as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

ONE of the reasons why we invaded was for the possibilty of WMDs. This reason was also the most widely discussed and published.

"According to General Tommy Franks, the objectives of the invasion were, "First, end the regime of Saddam Hussein. Second, to identify, isolate and eliminate Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. Third, to search for, to capture and to drive out terrorists from that country. Fourth, to collect such intelligence as we can related to terrorist networks. Fifth, to collect such intelligence as we can related to the global network of illicit weapons of mass destruction. Sixth, to end sanctions and to immediately deliver humanitarian support to the displaced and to many needy Iraqi citizens. Seventh, to secure Iraq's oil fields and resources, which belong to the Iraqi people. And last, to help the Iraqi people create conditions for a transition to a representative self-government.""



I am not defending the actions of my government, as I feel the invasion was silly.

I am just adding to the transparency of what happened, and why it happened.

[dodint]

mmmm, yellow cake.

[Yw-slayer]

The point I am making is that actions are apparently being given different motives/attributions depending on who does it. If accountability is important then why isn't a country dismissing officials for (apparently) failed intelligence briefings a good example of it? Is it only because it's "the other side" doing it?

[Godson]

I know what you are getting at, but you want two completely different mindsets and political systems to act the same. They won't. Ever.

[Yw-slayer]

No, they won't, but the point is not about the political systems.

[FaultyMario]

Is silencing critical media by lawfare (https://cpj.org/2022/03/uk-supreme-court-refuses-julian-assange-appeal-request-in-extradition-case/) or by journalists being afraid of speaking their mind (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/writing-controversial-opinions-journalism/627014/) a key feature of WWIII?

[Tom Servo]

Fuck, I normally like the Atlantic but that article was painful garbage. Vague tales of unnamed people being cancelled. Dismissing things like "accidentally showing their dong." Being upset that the writer can't give hot takes on subjects they literally say in the same article they know very little about. Basically saying it's okay to marry a 13-year old as long as your writing is good. Part of the article says that it used to just be conservatives when talking about the PMRC, but now says that even liberals are doing it. Tipper Gore is Al Gore's wife, this has always been a bipartisan thing. And fuck anybody who defends Louis CK. I'm so fucking tired of people claiming what happened to him is because of the things he said or his jokes, he used his power over up and coming women comedians on his tour to make them watch him jerk off. Fuck that guy.

Holy shit. I'm reminded of this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJFpGszUcAIz7fm?format=jpg&name=medium

[MR2 Fan]

Happy Ides of March day everyone

[Tom Servo]

Et tu, MR2 Fan?

[MR2 Fan]

also Et Tu Lenin?

[Godson]

No, they won't, but the point is not about the political systems.

But it is. You would like to make it about something entirely different.

One country arrests it's officials for poor performance.

The other arrests it's officials for malicious actions.


The media wanted you to believe the purpose of the second Iraqi war was about WMDs. While that was ONE of the reasons, it wasn't the only one. Freedom of it's people and access to it's resources as a free state was another.

I am struggling how you continue to turn a blind eye to this.


You claim the US officials overthrew a government for the US' benefit alone. Which wasn't the case. Meanwhile, Russia wants to have Ukraine under it's control, so it can squeeze the rest of Europe as Russia pleases. A country, Ukraine, which has chosen a true democracy, instead of a government which has actively suppressed it's people.


This isn't an apples to apples comparison. So pointing the finger at us for "doing similar" is pretty far from the truth my guy.

I *still* don't support war, nor will I ever. Unless the signs of another Auschwitz is on the horizon. In that case, sign me the fuck up.

[Rare White Ape]

Tyler, YW’s post is more about propaganda, hypocrisy, and media-driven perceptions in different regions than it is about politics. If you look through his recent highly tongue-in-cheek posts on this subject in the various threads you’ll get a better understanding of his message.

He has pretty consistently been going in this direction for a few weeks now. It’s part trolling, part humour, partly directed at a certain *someone*, but all truth.

[Yw-slayer]

Rwa is correct.

Tyler, I wasn't claiming the US invaded Iraq due only to the WMD claim. However, the WMD claim was a major claim made on the world stage (and supported by the UK) to get the support of the international community, especially in the UN. It was also entirely incorrect. I am not aware of anyone having been arrested or punished for what might be charitably described as poor performance. Yet it is apparently a joke if other countries hold their own intelligence analysts accountable for their failings?

I am not looking at the different political systems, or other factors behing Iraq 2003 (or for that matter, Ukraine 2022 or the numerous wars/conflicts that have started or continued between both) as that is far too subjective. The point really is about propaganda, which is everywhere and used by every entity for its own purposes.

[Godson]

My mistake.

Carry on!

[FaultyMario]

So it sounds like Biden is a pretty decent guy when it comes to listening to and following the advice of those who know.

Apparently there's this idea among the foreign services (some spies and some diplomats) of some NATO countries that it would be a good idea to get NATO armed forces involved in the counter-invasion, and because they have pretty good friends in the western intelligentsia, ideas like a no-fly zone have gained some traction, at least in that echo chamber that is the mainstream media.

But Mr. Biden has kept his high command close and has taken heed on their recommendation that NATO involvement basically means the end of the world. So, according to some reports, there's now a media campaign that is going to highlight the risks of nuclear war to the general public, so that the myth of "small tactical nukes" that is being pushed by shitpieces like the NYT (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/21/science/russia-nuclear-ukraine.html) is debunked.

Who would have thought it? Not that bad for a neoliberal!

[Godson]

For a guy who spent the majority of his life, and political career, in the Cold War. Biden knows what the risks are. He isn't a dummy. He was alive during the Cuban middle crisis.

This is a game of chess that NATO must play very carefully.

[Dicknose]

Our govt has just put a 35% import duty on all goods from Russia and Belarus. On top of any existing taxes+duties.
Its something

[Rare White Ape]

Does anyone else think Putin might have weighed up the effect of all of these sanctions when he was planning the invasion?

I do.

He knew exactly how the rest of the world would react. He knew it would impose sanctions.

He also knew that no other country would risk sending their own armies into Ukraine to counter Russia's actions.

[Dicknose]

I dont think he thought they would be this strong.
Or that the Ukraine would put up this much resistance, combined with what seems like a lack of will from his soldiers.

Id say he thought this would be 1 week tops, the Ukraine would just fold and that the rest of the world would be annoyed but not do that much.

[dodint]

It's kind of fallen out of the news cycle for me. I hear more about Biden raising gas prices and transgender swimmers these days.

[Godson]

It's kind of fallen out of the news cycle for me. I hear more about Biden raising gas prices and transgender swimmers these days.

No mention of Will Smith trying to beat box on Chris Rock's face?

[dodint]

Whatever do you mean, good sir?

[Godson]

With the way this is written, I would sumise the story about "The Ghost of Kyiv" was likely a made up story and largely propaganda.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/13/ukrainian-fighter-pilots-mig-29-russians/

[dodint]

Gee, you think? The 'Ghost of Kyiv' whose reporting comprised of video game stills wasn't real? Nawwwww.

[Yw-slayer]

Not to mention drone-killing grandma with her pickle jar, Snake Island guys, and the "I don't need a ride, I need ammo" quote.

[Rare White Ape]

The woman with the sunflower seeds was another one.

[Godson]

I'm my world of evidence-based practice (most of the time), we "Trust, but verify."

[Yw-slayer]

Bro, truth is always the first casualty of war.

[Godson]

Hence, verify. ;)

[Yw-slayer]

How? It's just not possible in the vast majority of these cases. That's why it's better to start from the premise that as both sides are not innately trustworthy, each of their claims are unproven (especially ones clearly tailored to raise emotions to support their side and/or demonise the other side). Laugh at the stuff that is clearly too "good" to be true. Or even better, to just generally ignore everything, even though no-one wants war or refugees or killing.

[FaultyMario]

Gene Roddenberry was so right when he came up with the Borg.

[MR2 Fan]

Gene Roddenberry was so right when he came up with the Borg.

I think that was Maurice Hurley more than Gene Roddenberry