Fun - Sports car, supercar, lightweight, replica?

[samoht]

Recent favourable business developments (http://gtxforums.net/showthread.php?1762-Autonomous-Vehicles-(new-job-)/page2#post_176639) mean I’m now in the lucky position to be able to consider looking for a new ‘fun’ car with a rather higher budget (replacing the RX-7).

The most obvious attraction would be a Sports Series McLaren - potentially either a 570S Spider, or at a stretch a 600LT coupe. The input of ex-Lotus engineers, and HPAS, and the lightweight carbon tub, make the Mac particularly appealing - not to mention they seem a bit of a bargain, being a chunk cheaper than other junior supercars like the Huracan or 458.

But. Supercars are low and wide, and fun country roads tend to be narrow and undulating. Perhaps the need to avoid oncoming traffic and worries of grounding the nose, plus the value of the thing, mean it wouldn’t be the most fun option?

So then I could go for a sports car, a physical package closer to the RX-7, perhaps an A110 or Cayman GT4.

Or I could take things further, since I’ll keep the Merc for daily driving and longer trips, I could get a pure lightweight such as a Caterham. Jannarelly? Or a Wells Vertige? Morgan are meant to be following up their new three-wheeler with one with a full complement of wheels. Westfield Eleven?

Finally there are a few really good (I think) replica manufacturers out there. There’s a real appeal in a Lister Bell Stratos with a Busso V6, or a GT40, or a Gardner Douglas Lola T70 replica. Essentially the appeal is a big multi-cylinder naturally aspirated engine in a small light body with timeless styling. The concern is whether a car made in penny numbers is actually well enough engineered in chassis stiffness, suspension geometry and setup to capitalise on its potential.

These are just ideas, I’m open to other suggestions too. It’s really for fun driving since I use the Merc to actually go places, on road and occasionally trackdays. I think I prefer RWD, small and light, and a decent engine (pref not an inline four). It may not happen, or it may end up being a smaller budget, but it's a real possibility, so fun to ponder...

[FaultyMario]

I think a mid-engined Porsche is a great way to dip your toes in the gilded-age of automotive waters.

[JoeW]

Yeah that GT4 or GT4RS looks like the perfect driver’s car.

[Rare White Ape]

Gordon Murray uses an Alpine A110 as his daily driver, and says it's the best sportscar on the market for ride and handling.

[Kchrpm]

https://www.chevrolet.co.uk/en/next-generation-corvette

[CudaMan]

So many good choices! Might have more thoughts later. I presume a T.33 or T.50 is out of the budget? ;)

[samoht]

Thanks for suggestions :) Yeah, while it's hard to find a fun car on a budget (hence 'the answer is MX-5') there are a lot of possibilities at this sort of level.

GT4RS - in theory this is available new in budget. In practice Porsche UK have more customers than cars, and new cars only go to their best (most profitable) patrons. They'll soon pop up 'used' with delivery miles for double list price. In time they may come back down, but could be over a year.

My only issue with the A110 is the engine doesn't seem like it would be that exciting. But apart from that the small size and weight is attractive.

The new Vette is an outside possibility, the positive is that it's available new in budget and has a good engine. My reservation is it seems a bit big and heavy. It loses out, I think, against the significantly lighter McLarens.

Cuda is spot on to identify the GMA cars as pretty much my ideal - T33 roadster please - and equally correct that they're out of budget by a factor of ten. So in a sense I'm looking for something like that, but cheaper.

[Alan P]

Evora? Easier to live with compared to Elise/Exige.

[Leon]

I always look at the Honda S2k with some lust. But then don't buy it.

So I'll suggest the other car I want, GR Yaris. Fun, but also fun on b roads.

[Kchrpm]

BAC Mono

I like the Lotus Evora suggestion.

Ariel Atom V8

Sin R1 https://sincars.co.uk/

[JoeW]

I imagine he wants a car with some sort of dealer support network instead of the esoteric brands that work out of a glorified garage ;)

Being driven on public roads would eliminate some of the above as well.

The Cayman GT4 or Spyder is nice. The 911 Targa offerings are nice also. Just looking at your first choice was the Mac 570 Spider...I assumed you liked that spider look.

[Yw-slayer]

Exige.

[samoht]

I'd probably lean towards the Emira rather than the Evora, as it's apparently a more thoroughly engineered version of the same car. But Lotus is in the running, either that or a V6 Exige.

To me the S2K isn't obviously preferable to the RX-7, both front-mid engined but the latter has more power and HPAS.

GR Yaris I'm unsure about to be honest, probably looking more towards a RWD car for fun over raw speed.

I wouldn't want a single-seater like the Mono, just because I think half the fun is sharing the car with others.

Atom V8 is vanishingly rare - did they even make the intended 25 - and looks like the last one went for £170k so a bit over budget.

Sin R1 is an interesting possibility, not keen on the looks/name and seems a bit obscure, but nice engine and a bit smaller/lighter than the C8.


Unsure about open or closed, have always had coupes but perhaps when looking for outright fun, an open car will be better. The attraction of the Mac Spyder is that with the carbon tub and folding hard-top, by all accounts there is zero downside, with the roof up it's as good as the coupe, but can always drop it for more "intensity". But yeah would consider both in general.

[dodint]

I love the SIN R1. Fell in love with them watching them compete in PWC a few years ago.

[Godson]

I'm going to recommend against Macca, many of them seem to live at the dealership for repairs, or the repairs are ignored by the owners. From what I have heard from the local super car guys, the Lambo group are very reliable. I don't know if I could live with one to daily.

My top pics are Emira, Cayman GT4, and C8 Z51/Z06


The C8 Z51 is exceptionally good. But I can't stop looking at the Emira. The GT4 is SOOOOOOO common around here.

[JoeW]

I would definitely not consider the Chevy personally. But the Lotus looks really nice if the GT4 is too common for you ;)

[Godson]

Have you tracked one yet?

Even with all seasons, they are *sharp*

[JoeW]

Nothing to do with their capabilities. I just personally don’t like them :)

[Rare White Ape]

Well Lotus has freshly unveiled their Emira GT4 race car. You never know, they might do a hot street version (a-la the Cayman GT4) which could fit the bill perfectly.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Thought about this long and hard, and I honestly could not think of a fun car that I want to buy at this time and at my age… :p

If push comes to shove, I’ll probably get the v6 exige. If I’m super rich, then I’d probably buy them all like Jay Leno. ;)

I guess there just isn’t a fun car in the market that I really love at the moment? How sad… seriously though, I’d rather invest the money somewhere. Actually, speaking of investment, maybe Porsche 911 GT3 RS would be an excellent choice, but of course I don’t have the money for that either… so I’ll stop dreaming for now! Sorry I’ve been no help at all! :p

Just buy which ever you love the most and hopefully it’ll go up in value as well!

[Rare White Ape]

Just buy which ever you love the most and hopefully it’ll go up in value as well!

I agree with the first part of this quote. It's a rule-of-thumb in motorcycle circles where buyers are generally spoilt for choice. Buy the one that gives you the biggest hard-on.

But the second one about value.... that should not be part of it.

[JoeW]

Once you start worrying about value then you start worrying about mileage. Then it just sits in the garage looking pretty. Then you’re THAT guy.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I think that’s the problem causing me a hard time figuring out which fun car to buy…

For my S2000, I just pulled the trigger as soon as I figured out that I could afford the payments and insurance… and there were not any other options! :p

Lastly, most cars will lose value, but I suppose it doesn’t matter if you never plan to sell?

[samoht]

Not bothered about investments per se, if I can't enjoy this money now then it's unlikely I'll enjoy a slightly larger sum in the future.

However, I'd hope to get a car that will hold most of its value going forwards, so I can sell it and do something else with the money in future if I want to. So not something like a new S-class, which is a hundred grand car when you buy it and a ten grand car when you come to sell. Fortunately most of the cars I'm thinking of are probably reasonably well set to hold ~80% of their value over a couple of years, I think, being fairly focused performance cars not sold in huge numbers.

A 911 GT3 (996, 997 or 991) is a possibility, I know people rave about them, the prospect doesn't really excite me but maybe if I could get the chance to drive one I'd change my mind.


I know that quite a few McLaren owners have issues; the 570 at least doesn't have the special linked dampers that fail, but there are a few other known troublespots. Seems it's not just the great steering they got from Lotus ;-)


Supra is coming out with a manual, could be an outside possibility.


Am thinking how to get a chance to try driving some of the cars I'm most interested in.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Am thinking how to get a chance to try driving some of the cars I'm most interested in.

Yes, you should spend some money renting some of the finalists on your list or at least test drive one before buying one? I rented the S2000 prior to my purchase and that only made me fall deeper in love! :D

Looking forward to reading your reviews in the future. ;)

[JoeW]

Honestly if it doesn’t interest you just by looking at it then pass and move on.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Every car interests me in some way, but sadly I can't afford every one of them like Jay Leno! :p

Thanks to this thread, I did not realize I'd be struggling to come up with a fun car that I'd like to buy or even recommend! I wonder if it's because modern day cars have lost something or am I just getting too old? At least for Honda, for sure they've lost "it". I think they peaked at S2000. Nothing in their line up excites me anymore.

I'm fortunate enough to have a rich high school buddy who made partner at some law firm... so that I was able to test drive couple of Ferraris... he originally had the 458 and then he traded it in for the 488 Pista. He also has a 911 as a daily driver. I fully enjoyed driving them all, but my favorite is still the older 458 mainly because of its NA high revving engine... just like the S2000! ;)

Maybe I've lost something as I've gotten older? Maybe I need to get back to playing Granturismo some more... :p

Anyway, hope you find that new love you're looking for samoht!

[Kchrpm]

Think about all the other fringe benefits of fun/dream car ownership:

What car would your inner 12 year old want you to buy?

What car would you want to see on your watch, phone, computer, and TV screensavers?

What car would you want to excitedly tell people about every time they stopped you and had questions?

What car do you already own several pieces of clothing related to?

(maybe these questions only work for me.....)

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

Anyways, I’m pretty sure everyone here was stoked when you got your dream car! :D

[Leon]

I find the type of cars I like to daydream about, often rely on what sort of roads I daydream about driving.

So for example, I had more fun driving my modified 1300cc early 1990's sh*tbox, than I did driving my Evo X. Reason being, the roads I wanted to drive on are relatively speaking, slow and winding. So I had more fun driving the wee sh*tbox at 10/10, than I did driving the vastly more capable Evo at about 4/10ths.

[dodint]

I like Keith's 12-year-old idea. But on the flip side I bought the Z4 on a whim after I felt the Boxster was too small, and it ended up being the car I've enjoyed driving more than any other. It wasn't even on my RADAR until I actually bought it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I just stumbled onto this article and thought perhaps it can be applicable here?

https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/the-37-percent-rule/

According to the article, the answer is 37%! ;)

Chances are, you are not Kchrpm(knows exactly what he wants) and you're not Billi(analysis by paralysis), so try this 37% rule.

Meaning that if you are going to test drive 10 cars, don't make any offers with your first 3, but after your 4th test drive, just buy which ever car that gave you the most satisfaction.

Or in this day and age, due to supply issues, maybe you should set your goal with a time frame? Let's say you need to have this fun car by the end of the year at the latest... then go checkout as many cars as you can find... and then just buy the best car you can find after the middle of the 4th month! (or whatever 37% of your timeframe.)

Mathematically, this 37% rule should help you optimize your decision. Good luck samoht! :p

[Kchrpm]

Meaning that if you are going to test drive 10 cars, don't make any offers with your first 3, but after your 4th test drive, just buy which ever car that gave you the most satisfaction.

I didn't quite understand this, so I checked out the article, and the idea is to use the first 37% of your search (whether that's a number of options or an amount of time spent checking out specific options) figuring out what you actually like and don't like, but specifically NOT making a choice from that 37%.

AFTER the 37%, you will have a better idea of what is out there and what you appreciate/prioritize about the options.

At this point, the first option that you try/inspect that meets your newly calibrated wants (or just beats the options in the first 37%), go with that option immediately.

If the last 63% offers no options better than the first 37%, then go back and select from the first 37%.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I'm kinda known for failing to communicate clearly I guess..., but that's why I included the link! :p

For car shopping, it'd be easier to go back to the initial 37% that you passed on earlier if in the end you couldn't find anything better. It'll be a bit harder to go back to the girls you dated before though! :p Even with cars, whatever deals you passed on may never come back as well because the seller might have sold it to somebody else.

Anyway, just thought this mathematical rule can be help us optimize our decision making process by minimizing regret due to making a decision too early and to minimizing paralyzing yourself by overthinking it... Search for a fun car should be a fun process as well! :)

[Yw-slayer]

So it's a bit like slowly topping up your knowledge in relation to the purchase process a bit at a time?

[Rare White Ape]

That's the way to do it :up:

[samoht]

Think about all the other fringe benefits of fun/dream car ownership:

What car would your inner 12 year old want you to buy?

What car would you want to see on your watch, phone, computer, and TV screensavers?

What car would you want to excitedly tell people about every time they stopped you and had questions?

What car do you already own several pieces of clothing related to?

(maybe these questions only work for me.....)

:D

Honestly for me the closest to what you describe for me is... the RX-7. That's the car I "identify with" most, it represents for me the peak of the Japanese bubble era, beauty, breathtaking audacity of engineering, and yet still entirely reliant on the driver to handle it. The best available balancing point between the power and technology I love and the raw heroism I admire of fifties/sixties racing drivers, balancing the car in a slide with their right foot alone.

Also to some extent I tend not to set my heart on cars out of reach, rather look for whatever excites me most about the choices available to me.

But anyway, I've had the RX-7 for nine and a half years now, I think it's time to move on and use this opportunity to try something else.




I find the type of cars I like to daydream about, often rely on what sort of roads I daydream about driving.

So for example, I had more fun driving my modified 1300cc early 1990's sh*tbox, than I did driving my Evo X. Reason being, the roads I wanted to drive on are relatively speaking, slow and winding. So I had more fun driving the wee sh*tbox at 10/10, than I did driving the vastly more capable Evo at about 4/10ths.

Totally true. Roads are a mix, but probably skew towards the somewhat narrower, but still where you can use a fair bit of acceleration. I'm interested in some of the lighter / rawer cars for this reason - I do want plenty of performance, but something lighter would probably work better on tighter roads and also still be fun and engaging even when not using all the power.




Just buy which ever you love the most


In terms of 'wow' / 'I can't believe I could potentially buy one of these', it's the McLaren 570S, hands down. Supercar, carbon tub, big power, not too heavy, apparently great handling.

However, the question is whether the on-road reality of supercar ownership may not be as great as the dream, partly as Leon mentions. So then what to compromise on to get something narrower and more useable.


Second is probably a good GT40 replica, like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2liZfU2xxE . It's probably too impractical and cramped, but the light weight and nat-asp engine are appealing. Or the Gardner Douglas. Both are pretty awesome.

[CudaMan]

Has the community figured out any fixes or updates/upgrades for the 570S that may make it more reliable? Or is it still shrouded in "leave it at your nearest McLaren service center and we'll send you the bill and it might happen again" mystery? That might have a large bearing on the decision if it were me.

Stories from an MP4-12C owner some of us know are legendary in terms of how long and how often it was in for service. For some reason he again chose the CEL-Orange shade for his 720S :lol:, which has been more reliable but by no means trouble free.

One might hope the "baby" McLaren is pushing the engineering limits a little bit less?

It seems like a solid option for your criteria, nothing else is really coming to mind that satisfies the narrow and lighter weight criteria. While the new GR86/BRZ is quite good I'm guessing it's not special enough.

As good as the base C8 is (and trust me it is good), the Z06 should be stellar. But it is neither narrow nor light.

[samoht]

There are a couple of independent McLaren specialists now here, Thorney and Litchfield. So at least there are some options.

My impression (hope?) is that a car that's done 10k miles or so should be reasonably well 'de-bugged'; the impression I've had is of quite a few initial quality type problems and electrical glitches. Certainly I'd want it under McLaren extended warranty for the first year at least in case anything crops up - if it behaves itself for a year then I might risk going without.


I probably wouldn't see the GR86 as an upgrade over the RX-7 tbh, apart from it being a new car. Don't get me wrong, I think if Toyota had launched the current 2.4L car back in 2012 I'd likely have bought one by now, but yeah now probably looking to push the boundaries a bit more, since I have the chance.

[Godson]

What are your thoughts on a 540c? If I were to chase a Macca, that would be my target. 540hp, 2900lbs dry. Still wicked fast, but much less complex.

Also, said CEL-orange 720 is honestly still a joke to me. The coolant leak that he found on a track day, the MONTHS at a time at a dealer. Like...no.


Thoughts on an R8? How new are you wanting?

[Leon]

Is Porsche still a go-to for fun, but without being pernickity as fuck to actually own & use?

[Godson]

Depends on the model. IMS era cars are still finicky from what I have seen. But my '99 experience was absolutely trouble free.

Some of the people I do time trials with haven't had the most trouble free experience from what I have seen either. Dunno why.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Second is probably a good GT40 replica, like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2liZfU2xxE . It's probably too impractical and cramped, but the light weight and nat-asp engine are appealing. Or the Gardner Douglas. Both are pretty awesome.

Oh yes! GT40 or a Cobra replica definitely sounds intriguing!

And then for you next car, maybe a replica McLaren F1! :p

[neanderthal]

Maybe I misread the brief, but I haven't seen mention of an AC Cobra replica yet. And that's usually the sports car default option.

Superformance MkIII?

OG 90s NSX?

[samoht]

What are your thoughts on a 540c? If I were to chase a Macca, that would be my target. 540hp, 2900lbs dry. Still wicked fast, but much less complex.

The 540C, 570S, 570GT and 600LT are all basically the same car, with conventional suspension and the common 3.8T in varying states of tune. The main difference I think with the 540 is that it came with normal steel brake discs, rather than ceramics on the 570. But otherwise I think maintenance issues are much of a muchness between them.

I'd consider a 540, I agree 500hp should be adequate, but they aren't that much cheaper, often lower spec, & they never came as a Spider, which I think may be worth having as it increases the sensations of driving without too many downsides.


Also, said CEL-orange 720 is honestly still a joke to me. The coolant leak that he found on a track day, the MONTHS at a time at a dealer. Like...no.

I'm afraid I missed the story of the Orange 720, other than what's been shared here so far ;-)
Coolant leaks are I understand very common and can be permanently fixed by having a specialist remove all McLaren's factory fitted cheap 'n' nasty hose clamps and replace them with proper quality items. Stupid, but fixable as I understand it. This is part of what I'm imagining as 'initial quality' issues that would hopefully be resolved on a car with 10k miles plus on it.


Thoughts on an R8? How new are you wanting?

Age is fine, but the R8 doesn't really appeal to me, too heavy as a V10 compared to other options.



Is Porsche still a go-to for fun, but without being pernickity as fuck to actually own & use?

Logically yes probably... somehow continually reading journos going on about how great Porsches are puts me off (silly I know). The GT3/GT4 are probably the best combo of nat-asp engine, manual box, and compact dimensions. The Alpine, despite being turbo/DSG, does make a strong argument for being ~200kg lighter than the Caymans, plus double wishbones.


Am in the process of arranging a three day hire in a 570S Spider for mid June, so hopefully that should help me clarify my thinking at least on what type of car I want. I've also requested a test drive in an A110.

[samoht]

Maybe I misread the brief, but I haven't seen mention of an AC Cobra replica yet. And that's usually the sports car default option.

Superformance MkIII?

OG 90s NSX?

Cobras seem perhaps a little too crude, unless there's a less original & more sophisticated variant out there?

Actually the Flyin Miata V8 is interesting, but they seem to have stopped making them.

I'm not sure what the NSX has over the RX-7 apart from an awesome intake noise, and reliability; it's bigger & heavier but less practical, fairly sure it won't have the performance of my modestly boosted Seven, not the best rep for on the limit handling either. A very cool car, but probably not the step I'm looking for. I'd be interested in the Type R, but that seems to be a bit above budget, as expected https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1995-honda-nsx-type-r

[Yw-slayer]

I love the first-gen R8 V8 manual, but understand if you don't.

What about the new NSX? Admittedly maintenance may be an issue.

I still think a hot Exige is the answer, but I'm obviously biased.

[samoht]

I like the original R8 V8 manual too, and it's probably a decent time to buy one.

Issue with the new NSX is weight and complexity; I see it as a mid-engined GTR, and would probably pick the Nissan out of the 500+hp V6 turbo 1700kg 4WD Japanese cars. But I'm more a kind of steer-it-on-the-throttle guy than wanting the car to be torque vectoring for me.

Exige, maybe, not sure about build quality and useability but probably hits the mark dynamically.

[samoht]

I've booked a test drive in an A110 for next Saturday. The residuals are quite strong on these, with launch models still going for £45k or so from c.£52k new in 2018. So I'd probably lean towards buying one new, likely the GT since it has a lot of the spec I'd want anyway, plus a little more top-end. I think I don't want the S, as the supple suspension is part of the draw.
If I went this way I could also use it as a daily driver, halving fuel use, except when I need to carry stuff.


I've booked a weekend in this 570S for mid-June
https://476j27493y2u16d6g86947j89-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2014/01/McLarenRearAngelSide.jpg
the hire is quite pricey, but since it'll be my first experience of a whole car category it seems worth investing in order to learn what they're like to 'live with' for a few days.


Morgan have their own hire fleet which looks reasonable, however only the Plus 4 currently. They've said they'll be getting a Super 3 on the fleet late summer / early autumn, so I'll probably try and get a day or two in one of those. Not that quick or capable, but I'm attracted by the potential excitement of it. There was a rumour they might do a four-wheeled derivative of the same in time, which I think could be interesting; having gone to the trouble of making their first monocoque it would make sense to use it.


I watched Leno's Z06 vid and got a bit more interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRU3UDvhF0s it's clearly an awesome thing. I just think it's even wider, longer and heavier than the McLarens, not sure I want to go there. But an impressive achievement.


There's also Superformance's Shelby Daytona Coupe replica https://www.totalheadturners.com/cars/shelby-daytona-coupe/ , which is the 'Cobra' I'd be interested in. These have IRS and are a bit more refined, although I'm sure still pretty primitive compared to a modern supercar. I love the looks and the heritage, the story of attempting to apply science to the Cobra and winning. The size, weight, power, torque and sound are all pretty attractive too.

https://www.totalheadturners.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/SHELBY-DAYTONA-COUPE-BLUE.jpg

[JoeW]

Man that Cobra is cool. But not being filthy rich with a fleet of cars I would steer towards something with some sort of service network :)

[Godson]

Having built a factory five Cobra replica, I'd recommend not.


They are SMALL. I am 6'2" and 160lbs when I was writing on it and drive it and felt seriously cramped even with a drop floor, etc.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I have zero experience with these replica cars… I think when I get older and if I have the extra money, I might want to get a cool replica fun car so that I can not only drive but also service it myself!

However, it’d suck if I can’t fit in it though. :|

I have a cousin who’s 6’2” and was having difficulties fitting into my S2000.

So I hope my average 5’10” height can fit inside a Cobra…

[Godson]

I daily drove an s2k, just as a friend did who is 6'4 and 190. We fit, so, *shrug*

[Crazed_Insanity]

My cousin’s legs are probably too long. They were touching the bottom of my steering wheel the whole time…

Anyway, sounds like Cobras a really small…

[samoht]

I understand the above Cobra coupe is a kind of continuation car, albeit with Peter Brock's continued input, which has IRS and is 2% larger. 2% doesn't sound a lot, but 2% of 4m would be 8cm, which if it was all in the cabin would be a small but meaningful chunk of extra legroom. At least, I'm not planning on buying anything sight-unseen, and cabin fit is a fairly easy thing to check. I actually declined the first RX-7 I tried because I didn't fit, but later worked out I could fit a smaller wheel, which panned out fine.


Anyway... today I got a test drive in an A110. I had an hour with the car, which was enough to take a pre-planned route out of Cambridge and down some reasonable bits of country road.

First impressions were very favourable. In a dealership carpark full of Renault SUVs, it has the same kind of 'smallness factor' that the RX-7 does, which I love, it marks it out as special and different. The shape is really good, the styling elegant and restrained, letting the proportions do the talking. It looks great in the Alpine Blue or the darker Abyss Blue. It feels great inside too, with alcantara and aluminium on key touch points. Some people might wonder whether a car with a 1.8L Renault four-pot can be worth £50k+, but in the metal it absolutely feels it to me.

Leaving the dealership the good vibes continue; the steering is very immediately responsive, and the car soon feels utterly intuitive to drive. The DSG gearbox works well in Auto, visibility is ok-ish, but I felt comfortable in the car.

Accelerating to pass slower cars, it lacks the midrange torque of the RX-7 or Merc. The gearbox in the A110 is right up against its rated torque limit, which means the turbo has to breathe quite lightly. The upshot is that it lacks that weightless, effortless sense of acceleration that my two cars have; rather, you have to wind the engine out, using power rather than torque, to make speed. However, it is a sports car, and additionally the gearbox gives you easy access to the revs, whether you bash down through the gears with the paddles or leave it in Auto - the power is perfectly accessible in a way it might not be if you were working through a manual box. The engine doesn't sound great, but it's fine.

At speed on an uneven B-road, the chassis feels great; it floats over the bumps yet feels entirely in touch with the surface, a bit like a martial arts stance - not locked down, but fully in control and ready to move in any direction. The chassis also feels absolutely anvil-solid under any condition, noticeable compared to the creaky old cars I'm used to.

However, when trying to carry some speed through a corner I hit a slightly odd phenomenon - I couldn't seem to get the car smoothly loaded up laterally, rather the G-force built rapidly, ebbed, and built again, as if I was tracing a rounded polygon rather than a smooth curve. This happened two or three times when I attacked corners at maybe 40-60mph, turning moderately hard but not near the limit. The car had plenty of grip and never felt like it was going to unstick, I just couldn't turn it smoothly at speed.

I have a few theories;
I might have been putting in too much lock and winding it off again repeatedly without realising
These roads were quite bumpy, perhaps the bumps rocked the car, my arms moved, and I was putting in unwanted steering inputs.
(Both the above could be due to the steering being fairly light and quick).
The demo car's geometry may have been out, leading to bump steer
It's just inherent in the car / MR cars, and other drivers learn to manage it?
I was driving faster than I realised and hitting the ESC
I had the nearside wheels closer the edge of the road without realising than I would normally, so the bumps were worse.

The other significant negative is the steering, which has the typical numb / dead EPAS feel on-centre, which I dislike. I feel I could probably live with the steering if I had been able to get the car loaded up laterally and feel the balance, but absent that, I feel I'm not really able to access the great handling that's the whole point of having an A110 for me.

I'm perfectly open to the problem being me, not the car, but I've never hit this sort of thing in any of my other cars, even when driving on the same roads.

So yeah, I like the car overall, and I'm full of admiration for the people who gave the green light to develop a clean sheet all-aluminium mid-engined double-wishboned lightweight sports car with an unknown badge, it really is a lovely thing in many ways. But unfortunately, my actual experience so far has been less fun than driving the RX-7 down the same road, and it makes little sense to spend £60k on a new car just to save a few bob on petrol.

It's been suggested I could buy a secondhand car privately and get the geometry done (Life110 have some recommended settings which are considered an improvement on factory). That way if I still can't get on with the car, I could likely sell it for minimal loss and get something else; or if I do like it I could always then order a new one.

[Rare White Ape]

Ahh well that's slightly disappointing. What else was on the short list? The Lotus? And you have a day with the McLaren next month.

It may be outside of your original brief, but that 570S in papaya orange does look like a fucking tasty weapon to park in your garage.

[Yw-slayer]

Samoht, just sent you an email (although it's not about what car to buy)!

[Crazed_Insanity]

If it’s not better than the RX7, why waste anymore time and money? Next!

[Alan P]

Thought about something like a Hawk Stratos?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LRJSGcLIx0

[Yw-slayer]

I think I've seen one here. It looks damn cool.

[samoht]

The Lister Bell Stratos does have some appeal, yes, however in the replica category I think I'm more interested in the Daytona Coupe or GT40 replicas; I guess partly I'm concerned the Stratos would have a rather narrow window between 'driving normally' and 'spin'.

[Rare White Ape]

I guess partly I'm concerned the Stratos would have a rather narrow window between 'driving normally' and 'spin'.

*Anakin Skywalker "This is where the fun begins" quote intensifies*

[Leon]

A risk of replica cars, is that generally speaking, they're not as polished as a production car. Which means actually, a bunch of aspects of them, are bloody terrible.

I say this, as somebody who works for the regulatory body of the organisation that approves replica / scratch built / kit cars, for road use. Not because I'm a person who disapproves of such cars.

So if you're used to things that work, and are somewhat comfortable and usable, the risk is, that you will find a replica type car, bloody awful. There might be little to no heating / cooling / demisting function, or possibly something like rear vision, or ergonomics. They'll probably do something really well. Like a Lotus 7 replica will zip around corners fast, but will be terrible to use regularly or for any distance. A Stratos replica will look like the coolest kid on the block, but actually give you a sprained neck, and any number of chiropractor visits. We see innumerable amounts of kitset cars built lovingly over years or decades, and get next to no use, because they're actually awful to live with. But of course you've spent $100k, and ten years getting it done, so you're never going to sell it or the wife will straight up murder you.

[samoht]

Thanks - yeah, usability does give me pause, and your informed insight adds to those concerns. It's not helped by the fact that the original Daytona Coupe, GT40 and Stratos were all pure competition cars, so waterproofing, demisting, cabin heating and cooling etc weren't even really concerns - i.e. it's not even as if it's a matter of making a good enough copy of the original to get it right, e.g. even if you got original GT40 door seals they probably wouldn't keep the rain out.

[JoeW]

I would steer towards something with some sort of service network :)

Still my advice :)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, it all depends on how much you love that car I guess. Personally, I wouldn't care about daily driveability and other 'luxury' features as long as it's fun to drive to me... or perhaps it has some other emotional value to me... However, if it is so uncomfortable and so cramped that it might cause physical problems, then for sure that'd be a deal breaker.

If I ever get a fun car, I kinda want to be able to service it myself as part of the 'fun'. Older cars would probably be much easier to self service. For a daily driver type, whether for fun or utility, then I'd definitely agree with Leon and JoeW.

For me, I don't think I'll be dropping $100k on either a mass produced car nor a kit car! I'd prefer buying a fun house!:p

After some careful thinking, if somebody were to force me to have an all paid for $100k car, I think I'd be willing to accept the Porsche Taycan! It looks good, environmentally friendly, functional and family friendly... should also give some supercars a run for their money? ;)

[Dicknose]

Long time reader, first time poster..

Porsche Boxster Spyder
any generation (987, 981, 718)

If you have the cash (and plenty of it) and willing to wait there is a 718 Spyder RS on the way. That has GT3 engine. Car hasn't been officially announced but it has been seen in testing. Id talk to a dealer now.

[JoeW]

Yeah that was my first suggestion :)

[Yw-slayer]

Prodrive P25 haha

[FaultyMario]

Are TVRs the nightmare their name conjures?

[Leon]

We've got a fake Cobra and fake GT40 that live at work, and they're um ... a bit challenging. When we have to move the GT40, the loser of rock paper scissors is the one who has to get themselves into and out of said vehicle whilst we push it from location A to location B.

[Dicknose]

Yeah that was my first suggestion :)

Noted that!

Im probably biased as an owner.

[Godson]

He's an odd ball to toss out there.


Panoz Avezzano

[Kchrpm]

You psychopath.

[dodint]

I didn't even have to look at the username to tell you who recommended the Panoz.

[samoht]

Porsche Boxster Spyder
any generation (987, 981, 718)

If you have the cash (and plenty of it) and willing to wait there is a 718 Spyder RS on the way. That has GT3 engine. Car hasn't been officially announced but it has been seen in testing. Id talk to a dealer now.

My understanding is that the dealers here save GT cars for their repeat customers; not having bought a string of cars from them I doubt I would get one new. So the 718 RSs would be a matter of waiting til their secondhand prices fall back to their new list price.

OTOH there are plenty of GT4s and some Spyders out there, I should probably try and get a go in one.



Prodrive P25 haha

Not really looking for a front-engined 4wd, also rumour puts the price in the 250k area. Cool, but while a Scoobie is a car I give a thumbs up to when I see a nice one, it's not something I'm looking to own myself.



Are TVRs the nightmare their name conjures?

The story on TVRs is that some young lad bought a Griffith and was dissatisfied with the handling. Since he worked at McLaren, he took it in to work and popped it on a chassis dyno, to try and sort the damping. They eventually realised the chassis structure itself wasn't stiff enough, so it wasn't possible to get it to really handle properly. This may be mentioned https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojyqD5cUU34 . There are also question marks over the suspension geometry (compromised by reusing Sierra uprights), and apparently factory power and weight numbers were significantly optimistic. This is before you get into actual quality and durability issues such as exploding engines, and the steel chassis rusting away under your fibreglass body.

It's a pity, because the Cerbera should be ideal; I actually looked into them a bit 10 years ago, when I ended up getting the RX-7. There's a possibility that the later cars, T350C and Sagaris, are better engineered, but I'm not 100% confident in that.



He's an odd ball to toss out there.

Panoz Avezzano

Googling for "Panoz Avezzano for sale" doesn't really yield anything. Also, the claimed weight is 1450kg, at which point is it really worth trying to hunt a unicorn rather than getting a C6 or C7 Vette ? Interesting 612-alike styling though.

[CudaMan]

On the A110, would you have described the turn-in as "darty?" Without having driven one I might imagine its combination of EPS, a likely very quick rack, low-profile tyres and a lightweight front end could contribute to this cornering load irregularity you mentioned. Something like the RX-7 with hydraulic and weightier and slower steering, and more mass percentage up front, and probably more sidewall height, probably has a more natural feel in terms of how it builds load in a corner.

That said some cars do slightly odd things, like the NC MX-5 that will dart on initial turn-in before the suspension rolls, then there's a brief period where the suspension is rolling and the car doesn't turn any harder, and then once the suspension sets you get more turn from it. This sounds kind of like what you described with the Alpine. I have never figured out the phenomenon behind this feeling.

The Cayman GT4 also has quick electric steering and is MR but it's more straightforward to drive - not that it's easy at the limit mind you. :) As with many German performance cars, the throttle map in Sport mode is too aggressive on tip-in. And on this car, the steering is also pretty aggressive on turn-in and the e-shocks yoink you into the corner very immediately. It's still fairly linear it just does things that increase immediacy so much that it's easy to overdo your steering inputs if you're not real smooth.

MR2s with electro-hydraulic PS are sweethearts with turn-in and linear loading. :) One of the things I love about them. They're not an upgrade over the RX-7 of course. :)

I suspect the McLaren may make you forget about the A110.

[Dicknose]

My understanding is that the dealers here save GT cars for their repeat customers; not having bought a string of cars from them I doubt I would get one new.
The 981 Spyder (prev gen) was a bit of a hidden gem, they didn't push sales here and you pretty much had to know and ask. But everyone who wanted one got it - all 25 of them! The build run was only a few months, the GT4 started before and ended a couple of months after.
I had never been to the dealer before, walked in and put a deposit on one. Ended up with the 1st order for Australia.
The current 718 is an ongoing production run so in theory they shouldn't be too hard to get new - other than slow production in general. Porsche build to order for their sports cars, which is great, but does mean months of waiting.

The original ones (2011 987) are considered by some to be the best. Hydraulic steering, more options with roof and more "mx5 feel". They were a tuned up version of the S engine, rather than a bigger engine in the 981.

[samoht]

On the A110, would you have described the turn-in as "darty?" Without having driven one I might imagine its combination of EPS, a likely very quick rack, low-profile tyres and a lightweight front end could contribute to this cornering load irregularity you mentioned. Something like the RX-7 with hydraulic and weightier and slower steering, and more mass percentage up front, and probably more sidewall height, probably has a more natural feel in terms of how it builds load in a corner.


The steering seemed very immediately responsive, which is good in itself, but yes I think with the lack of weight and feel and fairly quick rack, that was likely leading me to steer too much and then wind it off again (theory 1 from my original post). I may have another test drive and see if I can manage to get in sync with the steering. It's weird because I've driven a fair few modern hire cars with EPAS, and never felt this. But yes I think I'm just used to the rate of response, in terms of both travel and force, of older HPAS cars which take a lot more input at the wheel to turn into a corner.

[JoeW]

Dicknose has me thinking about the used Boxster/Cayman line as “mid/late life crisis” car after the kids leave. Used values are low (especially compared to 911) and performance value is high. Hmmm.

[samoht]

some cars do slightly odd things, like the NC MX-5 that will dart on initial turn-in before the suspension rolls, then there's a brief period where the suspension is rolling and the car doesn't turn any harder, and then once the suspension sets you get more turn from it. This sounds kind of like what you described with the Alpine. I have never figured out the phenomenon behind this feeling.


This Savagegeese vid has an explanation from I think a Mazda engineer https://youtu.be/38SE1-1hBlI?t=1103 which talks about almost exactly what you're describing.

[Phil_SS]

Dicknose has me thinking about the used Boxster/Cayman line as “mid/late life crisis” car after the kids leave. Used values are low (especially compared to 911) and performance value is high. Hmmm.

Same. I've wanted a Cayman since they came out and I look regularly but haven't pulled the trigger yet. Mostly cause I can kinda be snobby about what I buy and which one I buy. Like I'm sure a regular Cayman will be more than fine but then I'm like but a Cayman S would probably be better and thus I look at them. Just trying to decide if the extra money for an S will be worth it.

[Dicknose]

Same. I've wanted a Cayman since they came out and I look regularly but haven't pulled the trigger yet. Mostly cause I can kinda be snobby about what I buy and which one I buy. Like I'm sure a regular Cayman will be more than fine but then I'm like but a Cayman S would probably be better and thus I look at them. Just trying to decide if the extra money for an S will be worth it.

I spent a year looking for a Boxster S with the options I wanted.
NOT silver or grey (that was a must!)
was happy with either manual or PDK, preference manual but they are rarer. But the PDK is a robotic manual, not a slush box. In some ways more like a sequential in a bike.
Wanted :- sports exhaust, sports chrono (esp if PDK), sports suspension, limited slip diff.

Most had "extended leather on mirror" and other cosmetic things that Im sure the owners loved as it made it more luxury, but I wanted more sporty.
After a year I ended up with the best being a compromise, none had all the options. The best fit I went and saw and the car's paint was in terrible condition, hundreds of stone chips. Thats a no.
In the end was convinced by my sister to get a new one and option for what I wanted. My budget went up about 40%. Then that week they showed the Spyder and well my budget went up another 40%.

The base model is fine and handles well. But the extra oomph of the S or GTS is good. Even those usually have the review "chassis could handle more power".
Id say budget for the S if you can, this could be the love of your driving life - dont disappoint by trying to save a few (a lot) of pennies.

[JoeW]

Just looking at some basic used prices here it looks like the Cayman prices are typically a bit higher for similar year and spec compared to Boxster. I typically don’t go for convertibles due to it being one more thing to break and take care of but since they are basically the same car I may not mind when the shopping starts. Especially if I will likely be using it sparingly and on track days at Sebring etc.

[CudaMan]

This Savagegeese vid has an explanation from I think a Mazda engineer https://youtu.be/38SE1-1hBlI?t=1103 which talks about almost exactly what you're describing.

Fascinating! Thanks for posting this. This feeling is not something I noticed in an RX-8 among the several I've driven (hard and commuting, stock and modified suspension). If this suspension phenomenon is the reason behind the non-linear feeling of the NC, perhaps the longer wheelbase and extra weight of the RX-8 makes it subtle enough that I don't notice. [In fact the RX-8 is one of the best balanced/feeling chassis I've ever driven]. I definitely didn't notice this non-linearity as much on my super stiffly sprung NC MX-5 that I had for a few months. I had been guessing the strange feeling was present in stock examples due to some way of designing a soft suspension around long squishy (and thus very non-linear) bump stops. But that wouldn't explain the very fast initial turn in before the suspension begins to move in roll.

[CudaMan]

And Cayman S are very good/fun cars to drive. Probably worth it over a base model.

[samoht]

Fascinating! Thanks for posting this. This feeling is not something I noticed in an RX-8 among the several I've driven (hard and commuting, stock and modified suspension). If this suspension phenomenon is the reason behind the non-linear feeling of the NC, perhaps the longer wheelbase and extra weight of the RX-8 makes it subtle enough that I don't notice. [In fact the RX-8 is one of the best balanced/feeling chassis I've ever driven]. I definitely didn't notice this non-linearity as much on my super stiffly sprung NC MX-5 that I had for a few months. I had been guessing the strange feeling was present in stock examples due to some way of designing a soft suspension around long squishy (and thus very non-linear) bump stops. But that wouldn't explain the very fast initial turn in before the suspension begins to move in roll.

I'm honestly amazed by the detailed way you described the phenomenon in multiple stages, and how perfectly it maps onto the SG video's technical explanation of the underlying geometry. You'd be a great chassis development driver for an OEM, I'm sure engineers would lap up that sort of specific, detailed feedback.

My wild guess from watching the video is that the suspension was designed that way specifically for the RX-8, to compensate for the 'long' wheelbase compared to the RX-7, so the effect was calibrated to feel natural in conjunction with that car's mass and wheelbase as you say. Then the NC just had to take the left-overs, as *obviously* the rotary sports car is the important thing around here, never mind the MX-5's vastly larger sales numbers.


Talking of rotaries, I took my RX-7 round the same loop last week, and it reminded me how much I like it - specifically the midrange torque (albeit mapped vs stock on the Alpine) and the natural way the steering weights up, so the load at the rim is always in proportion to the lateral load at the front wheels.


On the Boxster & Cayman I definitely see these as great value for what they are, perhaps as long as you dodge the engines that can suffer from bore scoring in the pre-DFI cars. They don't quite excite me personally, but logically are a great buy, in fact the older ones are perhaps one of the few remaining true sports cars that are good value.


Local Toyota dealer should have the revised manual Supra in as a demo in 3-4 weeks, have asked for a test drive when they do. Yes I know the Porsche is probably still a better car!


McLaren hire this coming weekend, pretty excited. This is probably 'the' car I'm most keen on, but equally I'm aware it may all be a bit too much in terms of width, lack of ground clearance, poor visibility, luggage space, attention, overall costs etc etc.

[JoeW]

If I were going to buy a “new” sporty car in that price range the Supra would be at the top of my list. The price is good and it looks great.

[Dicknose]

And Cayman S are very good/fun cars to drive. Probably worth it over a base model.

Ok you heard the man... I want to see more Cayman/Boxsters here!

[Dicknose]

McLaren hire this coming weekend, pretty excited. This is probably 'the' car I'm most keen on, but equally I'm aware it may all be a bit too much in terms of width, lack of ground clearance, poor visibility, luggage space, attention, overall costs etc etc.

The visibility and feeling of being wide can take a bit of time to get used to. I found it quite a bit on the Boxster, coming from a much taller car and a much narrower motorbike! The boxster is not that wide, but still felt that way for the first couple of weeks when I was on narrower roads with parked cars. The McLaren is wide, not just feels it. But shouldn't be so bad for you with the style of cars you drive.
Ground clearance can be an issue - I only scraped 6 times on my first day!!!
I also quickly learned which roads were an issue, had one on my way to work where a steep downhill onto a cross street was a major issue and needed "negotiation", which is a pain when this is a busy road and people want to get across while the lights are green. Just have to not be afraid to be "that wanker in a sports car". And yes that factor is probably way bigger than with an RX7. People will treat you differently. Plenty will take photos/vids, yes even cars driving beside you. I generally try to be nice on letting people in etc, to avoid being that wanker. Luckily being a convertible and easily seeing the driver gives a more personal touch. Im also generally smily - no resting bitch face for me, Im probably closer to the Joker. So I often get people chat to me at traffic lights - complements or even "want to swap car?". Not sure how coupe drivers go.

Anyways... enjoy the McLaren and I look forward to hearing about it. We probably need a pic or two, you know, otherwise it didn't happen.

[FaultyMario]

Ok you heard the man... I want to see more Cayman/Boxsters here!

Man, he IS da man!

[dodint]

I suddenly want to give Dicknose the keys to the M6. She hippy.

[Dicknose]

Man, he IS da man!

Its should have been "you heard da MAN"

[Godson]

Nate, I agree. She still knows how to rotate though

[CudaMan]

I'm honestly amazed by the detailed way you described the phenomenon in multiple stages, and how perfectly it maps onto the SG video's technical explanation of the underlying geometry. You'd be a great chassis development driver for an OEM, I'm sure engineers would lap up that sort of specific, detailed feedback.

My wild guess from watching the video is that the suspension was designed that way specifically for the RX-8, to compensate for the 'long' wheelbase compared to the RX-7, so the effect was calibrated to feel natural in conjunction with that car's mass and wheelbase as you say. Then the NC just had to take the left-overs, as *obviously* the rotary sports car is the important thing around here, never mind the MX-5's vastly larger sales numbers.
Ha! :lol:

Thanks for the kind words! I have done some tire and suspension development for global manufacturers of said products here and there, and I've enjoyed it very much. I think there are enough mechanical engineers who are very good drivers that major auto manufacturers will always hire engineers for those full time development roles. If I had known about FSAE when I went to college things might have turned out more in this direction for me.


Talking of rotaries, I took my RX-7 round the same loop last week, and it reminded me how much I like it - specifically the midrange torque (albeit mapped vs stock on the Alpine) and the natural way the steering weights up, so the load at the rim is always in proportion to the lateral load at the front wheels.
There's nothing quite like one in my experience (brief drives of two on autocross courses - one stock twin and one single turbo car). The Supra has plenty of torque early on but I almost wonder if it's too much too soon with the manual. Time will tell and the fewer, longer gears of the manual may help the experience. The ZF8 handles it well but a manual with those ratios would probably be a strange feeling. I suspect you'll find the Supra to feel heavy in comparison to the RX-7. It's a very good car though.

[samoht]

Anyways... enjoy the McLaren and I look forward to hearing about it. We probably need a pic or two, you know, otherwise it didn't happen.

Wow.

I’ve just done 475 miles in the hired McLaren 570S over three days, and I’m honestly blown away by it.

As soon as I got going I was hit by the steering feel, it’s just amazingly connected, you feel every force at the front wheels, on rougher surfaces it’s as if you’re feeling each individual stone in the asphalt. As well as the feedback there’s fantastic weighting as the tyres weight up, so you know exactly where you are with the car at all times.

The brake feel is also great, to start with I was jabbing them clumsily, but once I realised you just have to squeeze them - very little travel but quite a bit of weight - and they’re fantastically easy to judge.

There is no comparison to anything I’ve driven before in these two respects.

The power is ample, as expected, but it didn’t blow me away - bear in mind I never slackened the electronics and I only used it in fairly short bursts. It is quick, though; the best I can say is that the performance feels natural and useable within the chassis, not over the top. I think the competence of the chassis means that a lot of power feels like just the right amount.

I collected the car in Shrewsbury, near Wales, and went east through the Peak District national park before joining the motorway to North Yorkshire and my parents’ house. Then yesterday we took it out for a run, did Sutton Bank, up the B1257 from Helmsley then onto the North York Moors and back down Blakey Ridge, past the Red Lion Inn, a favourite haunt of car magazines. Being late June and quite far north, it stayed light til 10pm whereas most people were at home in front of the telly by nine, so the roads were blissfully quiet and beautifully lit with golden sunlight. The run down Blakey Ridge in particular was fantastic, just tipping the car into one turn after another, feeling the front tyres bite and the lateral loadings rise.

I take my hat off to car journalists here, because I’m struggling to say much more about the driving than it’s wonderful. It’s an easy car to get into a flow with, I started to get to the point of feeling at one with it - in my memory it’s as if the car itself dissolved and I was flying over the landscape myself.

I also found that it didn’t scrape or bottom out, even on some super-dodgy unclassified country roads. It did feel a bit wide, but was manageable even in tight spaces; the telepathic steering feel makes it easy to place precisely on the road, which helps, and it’s not *that* wide. The luggage space was also sufficient for a long weekend away, seems a week would be doable. The seats (standard manually adjusted two-part seats) were comfortable, I could get a really good driving position, and getting in and out is fine.

I asked about maintenance, the car hire co has had it since new in 2016 and haven’t had any expensive or major issues, just regular servicing and the odd minor hiccup fixed with a software update. It stands at 21,767 miles as I left it with them today.

This isn’t to say that it’s perfect. If you’re regretting missing out on the soaring operatic tones of the McLaren’s 3.8L V8, then at the next outdoors event you’re at, go stand next to one of the generators, it’ll sound just as good. The gearbox isn’t perfect, the infotainment seemed to have a bit of a mind of its own, and whoever decided to make temperature adjustments into a game of pin the tail on the donkey by relegating them to the touchscreen, there’s a special circle of hell for you, one where it’s always either far too hot or far too cold, and you can never achieve a moderate temperature. It’s just about useable… when you’re stationary, but is almost impossible while carrying speed along a decent road.


But none of the drawbacks seem more than minor irritations, I was just having too much fun. It's a car that's even fun to drive slowly stuck behind other people, but then when you get a good bit of road to yourself, the little pleasures of feeling the car at low speed magnify into a huge grin.

So yeah - tried it, loved it. I'm keen not to jump the gun here, and to take my time - there's no hurry, plenty of time to try other cars and to see if the economic situation leads to a drop in values of ridiculous cars by winter. But I'm feeling it'll take something special to overtake the desire I've developed for a McLaren over the last three days.



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLUfSBvYTOZBe944TXfUy1EQdP_EbdmmF25qzGU0RlMwscFzU 0JLndAOnRxHrEIiLZ5_ny-nIJriKg7bQIxTorkcMogIwH57hncy5cXqeaX0KZ13YhSyh9oLn eaNlccrG7ICMk829-NwQYoZzOoPdopeGg=w1454-h969-no

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https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLVc0sgY2pyXUXVkHq7K3VPz2rcKRgkdAPrUxiu2ZYLtJD90C LehPSnhcTdD2bLBFTzmRC8KJu3KJZrI1LjQhgdjQD1PZT1LeWs-sEUa498DOh0NM9MSz5HQD15RflQzQ_6cxkZfmwkA-UHza5XNvzuS7A=w646-h969-no

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[Kchrpm]

Glad to hear that it went so well!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Wow. Sounds to me like you’ve found the fun car that you’re looking for.

If it’s fun while stuck in traffic with it, what else do you want? :p

[Yw-slayer]

Very good! Yes, I think I'd wait for a bit if you can esp if sports car prices always drop in the winter?

[Dicknose]

Awesome!

Id argue against waiting.
Prices are less likely to drop with the current supply issues of new cars.

And the sooner you have a car, the sooner you can enjoy it.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I’d argue that if your spent 37% of you planned amount of time or gone thru 37% of the cars on your list, then pull the trigger, otherwise you wait til you’ve reached that 37% threshold. :p

Anyway, sounds to me like you’ve found the one… I’d be really surprised if you end up finding a more impressive car.

[Rare White Ape]

Firstly, pinch yourself on the fact that you drove... a McLaren.

Secondly, spec that baby up now and start monstering that cheque book.

[Yw-slayer]

Awesome!

Id argue against waiting.
Prices are less likely to drop with the current supply issues of new cars.

And the sooner you have a car, the sooner you can enjoy it.

There is that. But even a thousand quid is a thousand quid of petrol. Or the price of a Bedford Palmersport full-day trackday.

[CudaMan]

Sounds like it was a very enjoyable experience! So what color are you eyeing? :D

Would you track a McLaren like you have your RX-7? Trackday insurance is surely available in the UK as it is here. I'm sure it wouldn't be inexpensive for a 570S.

[samoht]

It was fab.

I'd hope to get it on track occasionally, yeah - I've not done that many with the RX-7 lately but I do think the Mac would need to go to a few tracks. Yes I have taken insurance in the past and would need to for this. "The basic cost for insuring a £100,000 car varies from £450 to £950 per day." ( https://trackday.moris.co.uk/track-day-insurance ). Which is "ok" to do occasionally.

Colours... now we're talking.

I think I want a bright, colourful colour, if you see what I mean. But not the orange the hire car was, that's too flat except in direct sunlight.

I think my favourite is the Vega Blue:
https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w800h600/89699bed0d7540619c036e4ad2ef102c.jpg

Or maybe Lantana Purple:
https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w800h600/d3c87cd9a3fe44be9df60bd806973472.jpg

Napier Green is good:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C147I_lXAAAVMVj?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

I also really like Volcano Orange:
https://preowned-eu.mclaren.com/picserver1/userdata/1/37128/WofSChhsG/kfz83693152_sj20oys_1.jpg

The Volcano Yellow is also attracting me (perhaps because I regret not getting a Competition Yellow Mica RX-7)
https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w800h600/46b3ba1afd2e41faa3a5254c075a5dbe.jpg

Is this red too Ferrari? Or goes well with the black bits?
https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w800h600/4064d7fd2d4f4196b107370bbbd3d16c.jpg

It's going to be tricky trading off colour against the other factors in a used car purchase, I don't want to end up buying a nail just because it's painted a pretty colour (!). I think probably I'll try and ignore the boring while/silver/black cars, and hope that if I'm open to a range of colours, I can end up with something I like.

Opinions welcome :)

[FaultyMario]

Partial to the metalescent blue.

[neanderthal]

Fascinating! Thanks for posting this. This feeling is not something I noticed in an RX-8 among the several I've driven (hard and commuting, stock and modified suspension). If this suspension phenomenon is the reason behind the non-linear feeling of the NC, perhaps the longer wheelbase and extra weight of the RX-8 makes it subtle enough that I don't notice. [In fact the RX-8 is one of the best balanced/feeling chassis I've ever driven]. I definitely didn't notice this non-linearity as much on my super stiffly sprung NC MX-5 that I had for a few months. I had been guessing the strange feeling was present in stock examples due to some way of designing a soft suspension around long squishy (and thus very non-linear) bump stops. But that wouldn't explain the very fast initial turn in before the suspension begins to move in roll.

I used to love David Colemans writing/ articles when he wrote for (edited?) Sports Compact Car magazine. I still think his S13 (Disco Potatoe) was the ultimate project car as the decision making about what parts would go on it and why was clearly and intelligently thought out and elucidated to the masses and fanboys in the pages of the magazine.
Jason (Engineering Explained) on youtube is almost as good as DC was in breaking down engineering concepts for the masses.

Would love to see him (DC) given an unlimited budget and see what he could come up with in a high horsepower sedan (think BMW M5 competitor,) a high horsepower sports car, bang for your buck sports car (car and mods- $30k for instance,) and a vintage car.
The last one intrigues me the most as the owner of a vintage BMW 2002. I'm inclined to think he'd go with a 2002 (it has its limitations though,) or a Datsun 510 but i reckon he'd most like go with a Datsun 240Z. Many, given that same task would pick an American vintage car for the easy high horsepower upgrades, but handling on a lot of them is Achiles heel although a lot have available modern front and rear subframes to rectify the factory shortcomings. Thing is, once you get over a certain number horsepower wise, it gets harder and harder to enjoy your car on the streets. Which is the unending allure of the Miata.

[neanderthal]

Thought about something like a Hawk Stratos?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LRJSGcLIx0

6:26. Those clocks. Can anyone make out the make or model.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Regarding colours... Yeah, I'd agree that you should reserve red for you next fun Ferrari car later! :p

My personal preference for this car would be Volcano Orange (Because McLaren), Lantana Purple (Because I haven't seen that many purple supercars) then Napier Green(Because you need to at least pretend to be environmentally friendly!;)).

Anyway, yeah, I'd agree with you the flashier the better.

[Phil_SS]

Of the colors you showed, I like the Napier Green the best. Then the Vega Blue.

Just doing a search for colors for the 570S is difficult. Looks like they had a plethora of them. Which makes sense for an almost bespoke car. Of the colors I have seen, my favorite is the French blue color, Curacao Blue. But that may be too hard to find. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/10407eff-74fb-4429-a61c-f07b5a1df4d2/

Vega Blue looks fantastic in natural light. Closer to a lighter blue than a darker in the picture, really like that color. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/036ce6ab-d77d-4e06-a47c-555bfa3cb45a/

Red is way too synonymous with Ferrari in that arena. And I'm not a big fan of Yellow except on very specific vehicles.

And if I ever make it over there again, I'll buy you some ice cream at the pub if you'll give me a ride. :D

[JoeW]

Classiest color is Blue.

[samoht]

Yes, a lot of different colours around, it seems that people who bought a new McLaren were happy to pay a bit extra to get a 'special' colour, and McLaren were happy to oblige. Still, makes it interesting, and I don't actually have a deadline to buy ;-)

Agree I'm leaning away from the solid red, with so many interesting choices out there, there's no need to ape the Italians.

I quite like Curacao Blue, but it's a solid colour and I think I prefer those that are a bit more metallic:
https://f1i.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Fernando-Alonso.jpg

The other one is the misnamed Mauvine Blue which is clearly a purple, slightly bluer/darker than Lantana and perhaps better for it, although I like both:
https://live.staticflickr.com/5647/20070422423_44f9102165_b.jpg

How many manufacturers offer a model in a choice of two different purples ?? And I've lost count of the number of oranges around. Great stuff from McLaren.

I can see why some people go for a boring grey, as it would attract less attention. However I found everyone to react very positively to the bright orange car, likely slightly more friendly and helpful than usual if anything, zero negative reactions that I noticed. Which makes me feel ok with getting something brightish, although not the hi-viz orange, no need to make the police's job any easier than necessary!


On the timing I can see it both ways. It's hard to predict what high-end car values will do next, there are forces pulling in both directions. On the one hand lots of people anticipated values crashing in 2008 and 2020, and they did the opposite. On the other, 9% inflation here does suggest we're due for some stiff interest rate hikes soon which could easily let the air out of the market. Because we're RHD there's limited import/export of our cars to other major world markets, so it does tend to be a bit of an isolated island in that regard.

I'm currently torn between going right ahead, selling the RX-7 and diving into the market, or waiting to see if the current economic clouds develop into a full-fledged downpour - my heart says the former, my head the latter. There's a solid argument for starting by putting the Mazda up for sale, either way.

[Crazed_Insanity]

For a safe dependable family/commuter car, for sure listen to the head.

For fun, I think even your head would agree that it makes no sense to deny the heart! :p

[Godson]

Do remember, dark blues are going to be almost black like in keeping them clean

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah whatever. Have you bought it yet?

(that dark purple is really nice. Papaya orange is the bestest)

[CudaMan]

Ooh, lots of great colors!

Vega Blue looks a lot like Daytona Blue that I had on my 350Z which was super striking in person when polished. It had that intensity to it and then the aqua flake on top in the sun.

I agree, Ferrari Red isn't the color for this car. But a red with orange/yellow highlights (like Volcano Orange up there) or even something like Nissan's Passion Red Tricoat (https://www.newnissanz.com/threads/passion-red-tricoat-2023-nissan-z-pictures.859/page-3#post-13377) would differentiate it enough from "standard red" to me to be a nice color. Passion Red fascinates me (https://www.newnissanz.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=192 0,fit=scale-down//attachments/2023-nissan-z_lv-33-jpg.6768/), it has kind of a pink/purple/candy red base hue and the highlights can either be lighter pink/purple red, or fiery orange/yellow. I think I just like paint that plays with the light, rather than the flat/solid paints that are trendy these days.

Lantana Purple works great on the 570S too! So does the green! That's a hell of a green. If it's the one I've seen in person it's retina-burstingly cool.

Whichever color you choose, the wheels on that Mauvine Blue car are the best. :D

The other wheels I see are great, too, but for some reason the 5-spoke wheels on the red and yellow cars you posted don't do it for me. And I'm normally a sucker for a 5-spoke wheel.

[samoht]

Ah, I knew there was a more interesting red out there, Volcano Red - would definitely be happy with this if one came up:
https://www.alastairbols.com/wp-content/ic/uploads/2019/02/570SPIDER-VOLCANO-RED-8-of-26.jpg/1484.jpg

I like the wheels on the Curacao car best I think (with Alonso), however they look a bit like the 600LT wheels so unsure if many 570S will have them.

No matter, obviously I'll need to buy a set of TE37s for it anyway ;) (j/k)

[CudaMan]

It looks like the same wheel to me with a different finish. Alonso's wheels are all one color, the others are polished faces and dark gray elsewhere. At least that's how it looks in the pictures to me.

Volcano Red is incredible! My new favourite. :D

[Leon]

I was originally going to say that the traditional orange was doing it for me. But then I saw that burgundy one above, now I'm conflicted.

[Rare White Ape]

It definitely does work better with a darker, but also very flamboyant, shade.

[Phil_SS]

I'm not a huge fan of red but that Volcano Red is very nice. Looks like it has some fuschia tones in the metal flake. :up:

[Yw-slayer]

I'm not a huge fan of red but that Volcano Red is very nice. Looks like it has some fuschia tones in the metal flake. :up:

I agree.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I found a white one in Washington recently… does not look very good.

https://jalopnik.com/mclaren-600lt-split-by-guardrail-abandoned-in-washingt-1849109808/amp

[Phil_SS]

The lack of damage is pretty amazing. It's like it hit the guardrail at like 20 MPH.

[samoht]

It's funny, other people have mentioned feeling worried about driving somebody else's supercar to the extent of it hindering their enjoyment, but I seemed to succeed in putting to the back of my mind any possibilities of a negative outcome such as the above to my three-day trip. Partly the car, partly the friendly hire place, partly my mindset which seems increasingly inclined to assume a positive outcome ;) To be fair, I didn't even slacken the stability control to Dynamic mode, let alone turn it off.

The width of the 570 is quoted as 1915mm (75.4") 'without mirrors'. Sounds good, however 'without mirrors' doesn't mean 'with mirrors folded', it means with them removed altogether. 'Folding' the mirrors merely pivots them around their mounting point, reducing the full width of 2095mm by just 5cm to 2045mm. Which could be tricky, as I only have 2100mm across the doorframe of my garage! (Just under 7'). I think a new garage door, removing the wooden frame and giving clearance back to the brick pillars, will be required. Luckily the garage itself should be wide and high enough to get the dihedral doors fully open.

The other issue is that Atsuko isn't so keen on us owning such an ostentatious car. However she's always taken a bit of persuading with new car purchases - it was about two weeks between 'why did you get this car?' and 'I really like the new car' with the Merc.

[TheBenior]

The width of the 570 is quoted as 1915mm (75.4") 'without mirrors'. Sounds good, however 'without mirrors' doesn't mean 'with mirrors folded', it means with them removed altogether. 'Folding' the mirrors merely pivots them around their mounting point, reducing the full width of 2095mm by just 5cm to 2045mm.

That reminds me of some of the more optimistic motorcycle non "wet weight" figures omitting literally all fluid (not just gas) and battery weight.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The other issue is that Atsuko isn't so keen on us owning such an ostentatious car. However she's always taken a bit of persuading with new car purchases - it was about two weeks between 'why did you get this car?' and 'I really like the new car' with the Merc.

Oh, I think this will be the greatest of all issues! Didn’t realize this might be the issue originally… although I’m the one bringing home the money, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be shopping for any cars without my wife’s pre-approval… :p

[Yw-slayer]

Do it, man.

[samoht]

So, a 'no news' type of update, just in case anyone was wondering what was up.

The first reason things are stalled is that I've still got the RX-7. Basically in the process of selling it I discovered that the 'small' rust hole in the floor that the garage had mentioned when I picked it up in May, is actually the whole floor and sills are rotten.
I actually demonstrated the car to a potential buyer, we've agreed a price on the basis that I get the floor fixed first.
It went in a week ago today to a local bodyshop, they took a few days to make a start on it, then discovered it was worse than they'd estimated. I'm still waiting for a final estimate to approve the work.
Ideally the buyer will hang on for the car, he seems keen (enjoyed the passenger ride when he came over). Obviously the quicker I can get the car back the better the odds the arranged sale goes through.

Then I need to work out how much widening the garage entrance needs. There's an easy ~14cm from eliminating the wooden frame, which just means fitting a standard up-and-over door. If that's not enough it would need to have some brickwork carved out or otherwise re-arranged at least at wing-mirror height.

I'm still bearish on the used McLaren market overall, so not in a tearing hurry to purchase. Still very keen to get a McLaren though!


In the meantime, my gaze has been attracted by the 650S, eg
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13660302

2014-16 650s are around £105k, so the same rough price range as the 2016-19 570s.

Advantages are trick interconnected anti-roll suspension, active aero, more power and torque. Plus the Spiders are the same price, whereas the 570 Spiders are mostly pushing the budget. The looks are growing on me.
Disadvantages are older, a bit more complex, perhaps less refined as an earlier design. Interior is less practical with higher sills, no glovebox/door pockets, doesn't look as good to me. McLaren warranty is £5k vs £3k on the Sports Series.
The 650S didn't review as well as the 570 did when new, unsure how much that was because the latter was cheaper vs actually more fun, cost no object. Conversely owners seem to rate them.
I suspect they may depreciate a bit less, being older to start with. Unsure how the Sports Series falling out of the McLaren dealer network will affect values.

I'm fairly sure they're a bad idea, whose only value is to make buying a 570S look like a sensible option.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hard to predict the future..., I think one has to be really rich with special privileges to be a car collector like Jay Leno? If it's within your budget and you really love it, just go for it! If resale value is really that important to you, then perhaps you should buy some other 'investments' that'll actually help grow your money! Maybe you should consider buying a bigger house with bigger garage? :p

Hope that rust on the RX7 won't cause you too much trouble...

[CudaMan]

I don't know enough about the 570S or 650S to comment on them. I imagine the reliability of the newer models to be improved, but I can't say that with any certainty.

I was compelled to look up the current value of the dollar vs pound since I've seen some nice MR-Ss over there being advertised for peanuts in great shape, plus $100k doesn't seem like a lot for a 650S. Today it's £0.83 / $1.00. Not bad. I think our used car market in the US is just bonkers right now and it may be more normal in the UK.

Shame about the rust on the FD! It wasn't showing up as bubbling paint? I hope it's not too dear a fix for you.

[samoht]

I'm expecting to sell this next car for a chunk less than I buy it for; normal depreciation on a five year old car is fine. However I'd like to feel I could sell it in two or three years without losing a disproportionate amount due to a market slump or whatever, given values are relatively high at present and economic clouds are looming here in Europe.

I can "afford to" lose all the money, in as far as it's extra money above what I was anticipating having, but it would be a shame!

Not really keen on deferred gratification, I feel money buys you more fun the younger you are (smiles per pound) so arranging things to end up rich when you're in your 60s is sub-optimal.


There was a single bubble of rust on the wheelarch, however even when I took the car in to the bodyshop and they looked at it to do the initial estimate, they didn't spot the sills - I think they'd gone from the inside out. Rust is probably the biggest issue here with cars over ten years old, so something to watch out for!
It's a pity, but the cost of sorting it isn't that bad given what I've agreed to sell it for. The bodyshop doesn't seem to be too expensive in terms of rates.

Used cars generally have gone up in price here too, but they were probably cheaper before than in the US, and additionally our currency has sunk, so probably those two factors make them relatively decent value.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, if I have extra money that I could afford to lose, I’d definitely consider buying a fun car to enjoy right away, or take a trip to a place Where I always wanted to go… or invest in crypto currency or some other crazy high risk things! :p

Point I was trying to make was that we probably shouldn’t worry too much about resale value. Just assume the money is all gone, used to purchase the awesome experiences. If it ends up having great resale value or if your risky investments ended up making profit, just let yourself be pleasantly surprised! :)

[Godson]

I'd honestly stay away from the trick aero and crazy suspension.

There's an old saying about buying a watch. The more things on the watch, the more things to go wrong. From what I had gathered by my local McLaren friends, that trick suspension wasn't the most reliable when it came out.


Super shitty to hear about the rust :(

[Kchrpm]

I just saw a couple 600LTs in person, and I think that's what you need to get. I have no idea what they cost or what the ongoing maintenance will look like, but this is your money, not mine!

[samoht]

Yeah, they look pretty cool and the top-exit flame-spitting exhausts are sweet. The fact it won Evo COTY is somewhat encouraging, too.

Honestly though, they go for around 50% more than a 570S, so I'd have to finance a chunk of the cost. I imagine I could find someone to lend me it, but while I'm happy to blow the money I have on an indulgence, committing future money on top of the already scary maintenance costs is where I personally draw the line. One could make an argument that the 600LT will hold its values better and thus is a sensible choice, but I'm not gong that far. Also I hear quite a few of them have needed replacement gearboxes since although it's the same box the gearchange software is more aggressive, perhaps a bit too aggressive.

There's also the fact I was blown away by the steering and brake feel on the 570 I hired, so I'm not desperate to have something even more 'exciting' at the cost of some civility, and the extra cost.

[Kchrpm]

But... They look bonkers.

[Leon]

As a slightly related comment, given the general wideness of economic downturn, you might be in a good position in say (picks a random number) 6 months to really burgle a good deal on something fitting the description "interesting but useless expensive toy car".

[Yw-slayer]

Would the GBP tanking and inflation spirallingreally make it cheaper to buy a Mclaren over the next 6 months?

[dodint]

As a slightly related comment, given the general wideness of economic downturn, you might be in a good position in say (picks a random number) 6 months to really burgle a good deal on something fitting the description "interesting but useless expensive toy car".

I thought that when COVID hit and the cars I was watching shot up in value.

[Leon]

Well, here in NZ, the market appears to have peaked, and cooled.

[dodint]

Yeah, I agree. My observation was mostly a recognition of my own annoyances with the 2020 car market. I sold a car I probably shouldn't have so I could buy a car I never purchased. Lame.

Right now I'm in a pause. I bought the Saab because it was a good deal that I happened upon. I do want to buy a different vehicle in the next year but I'm waiting for a market drop.

[samoht]

The FD is gone, as per the other thread. While I still loved it, I don't think I'll regret selling a car I've had almost a decade with. I only have two car 'slots', if I'm going to experience different things I can't keep cars forever.

I do agree about unpredictability, I never thought houses, cars etc would shoot up as a result of the pandemic, but they did.

Currently I don't see prices rising, starting to fall off if anything. Chris Harris echoes Leon's view on the market just starting to slide https://collectingcars.com/stories/a-general-market-update-from-a-man-who-sold-a-4-0-rs-at-the-very-bottom-of-the-market .


I think probably I'll just keep going towards buying something exciting. I was surprised how much I miss owning a "sports car", a sports estate just isn't the same. It was fine when I had one of each, even if I rarely drove the RX-7, just having it in the garage defined me as a "sports car driver". Now I'm not, and I miss that self-image in a way I didn't expect (having had something sleek since 2007 when the 180SX landed). Silly, I know.

Anyway, next step is getting the garage doorway widened, it's a bit narrow and a bit awkward to get a car into, I *think* it could be quite readily made quite a lot easier. I called a company that claim to do this, they said their surveyor would call me and he hasn't, will chase next week.

I may also visit the closest McLaren dealership just to try and sit in a few more cars and talk all things 570.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Unless I became broke and really need the money, I don't think I'll ever sell my S2000. So I guess I will always be a 'sports car driver'. :D

Yep, you are silly. Nice to meet you, I'm Billi! :p

[samoht]

Have arranged to see this car on Sat
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206257156841
https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w1024/5dba96f3f3a7412a9a912bfc228c0de0.jpg

It's not super high-spec but has the nose lift (essential) and carbon interior trim I really want. Standard manual seats are as in the car I hired, which were totally comfy, so happy with those and dodge the weight and bork factor of electric ones.

Volcano Yellow is a colour that looks different in different lights, but the pics I've seen all look good. I always wished I'd found a yellow RX-7, so not averse to this.

They've just dropped the asking price by £10k, which makes it look decent value for a main dealer car that comes with a year's McLaren warranty.

[Godson]

Looks very sharp

[Phil_SS]

Agreed. That looks the business. Love the color.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Business?!?! I don't know what kind of business needs a car like that... :p

However, surely it'll be a "pleasure" to drive regardless of color! £10k off asking price also sounds good to me! :up:

[samoht]

and... have just cancelled seeing that car.

Reason is simple, I've got someone coming to estimate widening the garage door next Tues, but I just found out the earliest they'll be able to do the work is January (!)

I'm 95% certain I won't be able to get the McLaren into the garage as it is, and the alternative is to leave it on the drive right next to the pavement for three months in winter. I'd worry about it being sat there, it'd also be an issue for insurance, and block the Merc in.


I was 'assuming' the garage ppl could get it done within a fortnight of agreeing the estimate, but apparently garage work is very popular right now. You know what they say about assume.

So back to waiting. I am however going to Hatfield (my nearest dealer) tomorrow just to try and get as much info as possible about McLaren ownership. We'll likely be away over new year, then I'll be back in the market mid-Jan.

[dodint]

Dang.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just get it! You can park it at my garage for as long as you want! :p

[Phil_SS]

Always good to get more info before buying.

And take it as good thing if the contractor is busy and won't be able to do the work for a bit of time. I would be worried if they said they could start right away, means they aren't busy and that usually means they don't do good work.

[samoht]

The sales guy at the dealer was really helpful, I had lots of questions and he answered them all. I asked about the cost of the 6th year service and he said he didn't know, then immediately called his service guy over and got a price. He also deviated from the party line on some questions, e.g. 'an approved car will come on Pirellis, when they wear out you should replace them with Michelins' - which was my belief too, but it's good to hear it from them. (PS4(S) are *much* better in the single-digit-celsius damp weather that makes up much of our winter).

Incidentally I asked about the 650S, he said it's an even better car to drive, but twice the price to own. Which is probably true in the context of McLaren dealer service, although perhaps somewhat less so if you go outside. But basically reinforced the idea a Sports Series is a sensible (well, less foolish) choice.

To be honest though, overall, last week I was thinking "It'll probably be expensive to own, but I want one anyway", and the only thing that's changed since talking to the dealer is I can remove the word 'probably' from that sentence.

Guy coming to quote for the garage tomorrow, so while the process is continuing to take its time, things are slowly falling into place.

[TheBenior]

(PS4(S) are *much* better in the single-digit-celsius damp weather that makes up much of our winter).

I've been impressed by how much better PS4S have been in that sort of weather compared to the Bridgestones (RE050A and I forget what I replaced them with) I had on my Mazdaspeed3.

But, since we get significant snow and temperatures well below freezing, I just mounted my winter wheel and tire set yesterday.

[Godson]

PS4S are amazing tires for what they are.

[Dicknose]

My car came with Pirelli PZero, pretty average tyre. Swapped to Michelin Cup2 (supposedly an equivalent tyre, both Porsche spec) and it was much much better. The PS4S (not the PS4) is very good, also a new PS5 is suppose to be good. Not as "tracky" as the Cup2 but work much better in cold and wet.
If by chance its on Pirelli Trofeo (I think they were standard on some models), they are a great tyre if you want outright grip but they dont last long. Like if you drive it hard you might get a week out of them!! They are tyre wear 60 compared to Cup2 at 200 and the PS4S at 300

[Godson]

With the crypto crash happening, it may be a good time to get ready for purchase...

A lot of luxury vehicles are starting to go for cheap.

[samoht]

That was a good tip, I saw something on social media more recently about McLaren prices dipping significantly following the cryptocurrency declines. However I think that's mostly a US thing, McLarens are cheaper here to start with and I don't think we had so many crypto-millionaires here in the first place. It feels like prices have slid a bit, but nothing that drastic.


Anyway, garage door should be done this Wednesday. Had a brief consideration of getting a Spider, but have decided I really want the GT, mainly because of the looks ;)

I'm hoping to have a look at this orange car https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209099603395
https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w800h600/9c4a9a168b9744768634415084f83978.jpg

and this blue one https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210020328713
https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w800h600/3cf5cf166ba342869ea0f0a3c8b23044.jpg

[Yw-slayer]

Good stuff!

[XHawkeye]

The orange one needs the interior of the blue one.

[samoht]

Yeah, the interior's a bit boring. It's a bit the case that beggars can't be choosers really though, if I was speccing the car new I'd probably have a contrasting colour to lighten up the inside, but there aren't a wide range of Volcano Orange late model 570GTs to choose from.

Dealer passed me the registration and I found a vid of the orange car - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7jDhD2M5r0

[XHawkeye]

JayEmm is one of my YT favorites

[Rare White Ape]

I think the interiors are fine as-is. If anything, the orange one could do with some blue highlights but it wouldn't change things too much at the end of the day.

Personally I think the blue car looks better but needs the wheels from the orange one!

[samoht]

There's also this car, which has the advantage of being at a franchised dealer but I'm not super keen to pay a premium for very low miles, when I have a sense they really need their owners to drive & debug them.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209019324703
https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w800h600/c412926b082e4d9da7c3499001ee5917.jpg

VO is my fave colour tho, can live with the interior being a bit drab I think. (I agree blue interior highlights wd be great).

[samoht]

Garage door was fitted on Wednesday. Honestly it's a bit sad how excited I am about a plain white roller door, but it's ace. Just being able to go to the garage, get in the car and drive off without stopping and getting out to close up the garage is a very nice novelty. Plus how much easier it is to get the Merc in and out with the wider entrance. I suspect that it's changed the Merc from a fiddle to a doddle, and a McLaren from impossible to a fiddle, which is ok.

Preliminaries in place, I saw the two 'local' cars today.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dd57nul-uLI5l0VNX2t-kEbbqSDeMh_snGZI2BnkqNzP7Syxv1gevTk2eSU0y6MrGxAA1U dv7Y9g5xzqG3By4BmORJMaBnqRDwBTptW7_zqZcgDUgiI-q0x_V25dKM3XSrJlKV_8L8dvnQNMiK1TxTY8Oupau109q-FZCyTyDYSI7ywXJADiOv-NMLTPEiH7Wl8-ldmSmW3lAm5h8UGDSNuUefWZFrsX970m-PB58U7q8AcI6fFISbwdDezFFNXrjonsywzmlyGX-l6wraDVcH4KMFlrKcxKU2wETNiOHAaIOzkvNAG82GEuLxxzJ0O hoqEzhmjLp6n7yUlQwzlMbZ-0TqWbdYSrYx8MLkG9ZGqHXJX_EmlDqzioSrZi5oeSWpdIW6tSa nkU84GEitCdkkJTlxIvtDrTa5rlvyb-h0fPFTUZJdRd_0g74ddJRmx7Xvc75pEJN1_ytwmCsVgMFKib4N-IxOnxNFRbIgvEXYIT9Myc1Fb7prVwOz0w9ryZgKwSOMWF7W0ew KC_bRYZch9s2wTdS6YUQ6khHJzm_1RBl8xDFQ_6M5eN8jyhUxJ 9KoOL6pjZWg1I-e7XTzUgbBsci8up_1A3TE0b5QMnBRT1pl_WKOHPsh9x9cgdpsf BgIMH-Nhpzhi8b6fqVLXAzT5iogB2kGNlTS_aeOW7w84RjgjpIzKUjAS-ICv0ZBfWXP73PVOCQwUpdNx4cUEJAay_U8jNxIJEXvD0Gx9EQh rQu5TRssjapcfVUwC-_tCCD-OaOmVJyj7AmeWr0NWZPOzUVU1Ak7mQQgVEkALbk3eeYesMTGL0 u_rMXe3UL-oHUmrWnEdi-_JWeQRqFodVV-kfFkGFbSYjluNBxSd1sG3Mt05Kh8G0gSUXW06Y1Ztf5lwcyG_Z 4DJX-5oaxyesvfV-GZ7oMY2qLzpTj79pNDLolIa4iJVyiTEJIAsJXEy_CUqtTd_YPG ABH7Yp_-M=w1263-h947-no?authuser=0

The blue car isn't quite doing it for me, I think.

There were a few issues
- the passenger door hinge was cracked (known issue)
- the driver's side A-pillar trim was loose
- the rubbers/trim above the glass on the driver's side looked a bit poorly fitted
- there was a tiny dimple on the leading part of the nearside front wing
- the front tyres are Michelin and the rears Pirellis. One rear tyre was also flat, must be a slow puncture.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/X2XkLMfGyEWiqx1K-PQePp9_pSTE6ScDCudylzDzVEQ1HyByL_3ARIKHPUY2OXUj_np fufAqitah8JkHqoC_Bn7mypqALe5auKurUlrUGYlFf8_BnvUcy YslSTytqGBmRLnU7dYZp8prWenk9cYckUJsOjd3UayFAeHM437 NquGWK8PyzpGku6leEjJbmw5I_F4niBfQhNWvkf7ZlsROiwtnm XwkLyxTS-NSsC1qIUbNHIVkHuiI331EgJBZl6xMNxXKqMbp1CO8u-WQ0BbkT-eJe0twAT6gwyVgNMRkT1rWl--8AGBIXDH_3-SaZ15gOQSqyIwjX8sw-3olxjxMnpGMEkyAXUe0k_l8rXBsSKbU_Il7_ro0ccGvajAmggr EYZ2UOGpl7mOuDjQrD8NlFZuDA9vhhLKbdCI-F64PAIKTPZi89mnP58QRsK9OS2r-0FMHZ1YWcnpGL4-uD5iUcmrtiOHpk3aRiTeJZLbyMsXq-iyKsgMzzY8OCqQN2ZvjzfYZqsGJA5Q5unHnZ74HrBj-oyoDotcyyP1tIJyQNDHX0ijr-kRXLReJ6NRCXWJYWEdrEJfIgDrKB2AlUfLLUxGMShF02TIY_Pj FFjw2yUas17M_xKTEytiFS162i15KxP6A7d1OfrbJgbf0oWsmZ 8OfvoziSkYBdKwuBOBuWuPgu85EUJ_SJ6iPDjaUO_hnZe9EjlZ YhrVTPTaTIGfnUQ-43crsVcqxeL7K-HoBOXbEIWkhe4nrJMLAIa-zykAswPlmCBryO_0uB3yQ8U35cYmSb6A6qbCilzXbe5kg3kwcG G7PTn8wA3zgqARBtchpOmPF12zzjgyKeQz9pJbcvtOnSEhAo3I buw4ud2lu9Jydcs2f3KG2qJtI7-lTNHvsWB9ryQu6Lvb33-honTStDuZLeOYTPCUKBfns3NAAd4tWm-nfJksc9Ivh7_g0Yp6_yq-5DrAz0226fzPF8cQ=w962-h721-no?authuser=0

Only the door hinge is 'serious', and all entirely fixable. But a little off-putting.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/g1XIirpwCAMAUvHKZBJlTDXIAItMI2C9dbXg_BlBR0jln0QYyK G4gG-4K9dc2MJwfltYktga1A2tYFXi_mLnoruoJ6QebXY4PdUeSV7N9 nFUoI7NH5jN21Lh-wN7mp3e2GLXemfuWxWmcDTwbyNYQmDw3dSeMbBhgl_JPtAY0X9 Pb3w2859XmSLAFD3KCph5lJ7YrdB9R9czjOuj4jMYmnb6mBuCt Hx_p-nyrM4uG50dizCGyJCc9FpBQbADo9admEHYapuh6tC5u8RgOhGS mdy63mlFolV0FEbjxjyNHlPjqvZNd8XFWVkY4yLU19ksIWzutG oFyi2LC-4CBf7UPFdiaP4iYD9Asyv2BO3bg6QcioIxKwHetgbpAvr5ch2m-eZeEFYVTFnUv0N8e1pJbXx_RfYB_5soQzIYZSVVMkjajxA1_od nnEdD-vJKug3leFWUwVQA3R5ccGky025qunAd0yDnBZgYl7PeHv_jIcq w5KxN96C-iXwg9idGTAW1LfwVP-QJwI5MnbDsfBhuqU9GTYcNjL4a37wEcSn_jMv8jiHbkbHiemA2 fwzI48WW4tGLyqJ1G_Ranj1ueqGpzNTpv6oa6VLPIt5aNfu3fB l_chcpcDf1pZY1Zo7SVxLdcI5kgbZz8zAfGq32-Rjci5cp-aCDydXNdygCLUP7wIxVfsSLBgU5NRks3BZuvjOsRr81POrUq7O H9iRkR_whSfbvgReusbuLT40XmPbRmRG4etUECtYGJWZaHWL5J Uj9ZNMV8-dgWykBaq0T1qlk_iBj3B_jZYf94gxNw2hzg5etActiSB8uKGao CrkS3aJlIWoWWcHGJnlruEpyG2265L3E9c93O3OXwvs6cbOEfI EYh-ova7HVZvdcC8KmTjhkS2iyZXa0Jmhl6ZEfqCiOjUam93HextrZ yH-laNSgJEnmZKofYBThxQUgWMyvQ1PCEtC9YnOqJ6cGmToUSf8=w 2438-h1828-no?authuser=0
On the upside, the service invoices suggest the car's been a 'good one' for the previous owner, who's had it from new and done 31k miles.


Conversely, I'm definitely feeling the orange car. Basically I just like the colour. The other things are it seems superficially in better condition (at least, the 50% of the car I could actually see - it was backed into a corner) - I couldn't see any issues, and it still has PPF in good condition on the front.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEW3Mmw0EsZh1RcgVKMAdTgZtG0R8Xf5ji6HTRJlJ5IYTP OLdb22_51pKZop2_I-FpjkIQPzpdgZzdbdWZe9IDS5Apr-2Xk5UzqLj1emXDpJAirgk-ggAyUaJoKlv4ggLZfUajGsX1VvTZC_ZAs7mYD-zQ=w2438-h1828-no?authuser=0

The interior is boring and it lacks the beautifully trimmed alcantara luggage area with copper (!) tie-downs. But... so what, right? It's fine, and bizarrely I also felt I found a better driving position, which is weird as they should be identical.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEWhMEQx0YbcLijAiyWJ1gPQkPkG55C9uneAPtwLSN4-sWuLQr2xBNbsk2rztDFkjff2emwfJv4P-cCmwGvWHuV5bKNqg1OngthUopOFxvVH0i9krX681hvrryxTgLb LQyLJsO1uiQ0MuEYFDUv2LpdM1Q=w2438-h1828-no?authuser=0

Apart from the colour, the other positive is the warranty position. If I buy a car without warranty (like the blue car), I have to wait three months, then get it inspected to put the warranty on. The orange car is still under extended warranty with the current owner, with a few months left. This means that he could extend it by another 12 months by just paying £3k to McLaren, and then transfer the warranty. The warranty can only be transferred between private owners, but that's ok as it's on Sale or Return at Romans.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEWr0hqTEVMzkzbuOzGtMbpxZb1HYDIbH0jNGVhmq3nDC3 6PfCbkn6W_U5kQLIiUQcbwiSkM5-yKr5nyLz8EoAlTqArWj1ndvK6RpKbTwua137cbJgCWAjBOkZHz uP8lU2c3hN_c-HRrEaqLu8qNqLjF_g=w2438-h1828-no?authuser=0

I think the owner would be prepared to include the warranty extension if I pay the £105k asking price. These cars seem to go for around the £100-110k mark, and this one is pretty typical in spec aside from the paint, so that feels fair to me.


I'm still kinda hoping that an 'even more perfect' car comes up in the McLaren franchised network. I talked to Craig at McLaren Hatfield last week and he said he'd ask around, will check back with him this week. I'm going to think it over, but I'm leaning towards buying the orange car.

[Kchrpm]

I support purchasing orange McLarens.

[Rare White Ape]

Whichever you choose, I can't wait to vicariously 'own' a McLaren ;)

Also your pics of the blue car aren't loading of me.

[samoht]

So on reflection, I'm 95% sure the brake discs on the orange car are burned out:
https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w1024/9d341c190ac846019cd721178a84c259.jpg
Good disc for comparison:
https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w1024/db19e2ec7ede43d896c33c0f368d6fd1.jpg

When I felt the discs on the blue car, they were smooth (like metal), the ones on the orange car were a bit rough to the touch (a bit like painted plaster on an interior wall).

I'll mention it to the dealership. The issue is, I think it's something like £15k to replace the full set of ceramic discs and pads, and I'm not sure the current owner will be willing to put that much into the car to sell it to me.


PS - thanks, have attempted to re-do the links to the pics of the blue car in the previous post.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Have no clue how ceramic brakes should feel, maybe Cuda could chime in?

Anyways, red Ferrari and orange Mclaren please! :p

[samoht]

I offered £102k for the orange car (subject to PPI), however the owner isn't interested in coming down from the £105k asking price, so no deal.

Anyway I think the brakes would be an issue. Worryingly it's been suggested that while the outer layer has been compromised, they'd still pass a McLaren inspection as the weight is still in spec. However in use they would then wear faster, so could be a bit of a financial timebomb. Having seen & felt the brakes on the blue and the orange cars, I think I can now tell the difference, so will seek out a car with 'smooth' discs.

Or buy an earlier GT with the conventional iron discs... might be safer!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just read up a bit about carbon ceramic brake discs...

Gee, I did not know they're so damage prone... maybe it's good that there's no deal. Maybe iron discs are safer..., but then again, it's not like you're buying a Camry or Accord... :p

I suppose this can be a good learning lesson. At least you now know how a good carbon ceramic disc should 'feel' like!

[samoht]

Yeah.

It's a funny one - under good conditions, they can potentially last indefinitely, produce no brake dust and never go rusty when parked. Plus you get better fade resistance and lower unsprung weight.
However if they get too hot on track, or someone uses the wrong wheel cleaner liquid, or there's impact damage, they can be ruined very quickly, and cost maybe £20k to replace from McLaren.

If required, an aftermarket Surface Transforms set is about £15k, which are apparently better as well as slightly cheaper than OEM. But that's obviously a huge amount of money to lose.

I think I'm still hoping to buy a car with good condition ceramics, look after them, and hope for the best. After all, it's part of what makes the car, and iron brakes can end up being costly too. But it has crossed my mind that a model with the iron brakes might be less stress-inducing!

[Rare White Ape]

I'd realistically settle for good old regolith brakes because they're just... normal. How often will you need carbon-ceramic brakes in your daily driving?

They might be good for track use, but most trackday people wouldn't even reach a point where they make anything noticeably better.

You will be driving this when it's 5-degrees outside, and rust will only count for a few microns of the outer surface. You might find the perfect car next week, except it has steel brakes. I would not knock it back just because the material between the pads is not from the space age.

Plus I think they look better than ceramic when they catch the afternoon light ;)

[Leon]

Scary thought that the McLaren brakes are worth more than 3 from 4 of my cars entire value added together :)

[FaultyMario]

Yeah, but the fourth car? ;)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Used car market is trending downward... so I'm pretty sure not one of my current 3 vehicles on my driveway is worth more than the McLaren carbon ceramic brakes!!! :lol:

This IS kinda crazy. One could buy this car for about $100k, but then if one needs a new set of brake discs, replacing them would cost 1/5 of that?!?!?

Anyway, samoht, if you are going to get one, just get one that you think would have the best chance to actually rise in value or at least maintain it in the future... and make sure you get one that you truly love and want. Don't compromise! Super car needs to be super!

If your couldn't find the right car, then maybe that's still all good and you could redirect your money to pursue your other dream projects! ;)

[Kchrpm]

Or, and hear me out, another couple of options:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q--HZ_iM5KA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJf194ci4lA

[Crazed_Insanity]

Steering wheel on the wrong side!!! :p

Otherwise, great options!

[Kchrpm]

They're making right hand drive versions!

[samoht]

Update - the dealer called back yesterday and said that actually yes, they would be interested at £102k. (Thus leaving me £3k to buy a 12mo McLaren warranty). I've therefore paid a deposit and arranged for the car to go to the nearest McLaren dealer for a pre-purchase inspection. It should have been inspected today, so I'm looking forward to getting the report tomorrow.

I'm basically betting that the official McLaren service workshop should be able to accurately diagnose the condition of the brake discs, so either it's fine, or I can negotiate on that, or not buy it.


On the ceramics, yeah it's crazy. However the 'sell' is that they should last longer than iron brakes, which themselves can cost a grand or two at this level if you need four discs and pads. It's entirely possible for a ceramic-braked car to end up costing less over three years of ownership than one with a traditional setup, so it's not a slam dunk. The problem is, if you do need to replace them, it's a lot of cash.

But the possibility of them costing less, plus the suspension working better with lower unsprung weight (though I don't know how significant this is vs wheels and tyres), plus better braking performance, is probably persuasive. After all, the handling and braking are a big part of why I want a car like this at all.

The other thing is that the iron brakes came on earlier cars, which I think could be higher risk in other ways. For example, if I buy a 2019 car like this, McLaren will respray any bubbling paint just before the five year mark for free. If I get a 2017 car with the 'safer' iron brakes, it's past that mark, so any paint corrosion is on me. Which could also cost £20k worst case to respray the whole lot. Plus a lot of the earlier cars are lower spec in other ways.


I have to admit I'd missed the fact the Z06 is also being made in RHD, that's cool. And being GM, I'm sure it's a more sensible ownership proposition, although I'm not sure what the list price will end up being especially with our currency being so devalued. Still... I've driven a McLaren and loved it. And part of that is the hydraulic power steering, and to some extent I think the weight. The RX-7 was ~1275kg, the 570 is maybe ~1375 depending who you believe, the Z06 maybe 1575kg or more depending on spec and how it's measured. The Z06 engine sounds magnificent, and I'm glad someone in Kentucky decided they should put the Ferrari 458 back into production. I'm just not sure I'd want to go with something so big and heavy.

Chris Harris in a 570GT -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63HFjBi0oAQ

I love the way the 570 drove, I love the way the GT model looks with the fastback (180SX, RX-7, 350Z ... see a trend here?), I love the Volcano Orange paint (not that common). So if this car checks out, I'm pretty much decided to buy it. I think the chance I regret it is less than the chance I'll regret not buying it, when I had the chance.

[Crazed_Insanity]

:up:

Hope everything goes well so you can get this car!

[Kchrpm]

The person saw my suggestions as potential competition and buckled under the pressure!

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

I guess you should rewrite that book and call it: Kchrump: the art of the deal!

[samoht]

So, McLaren Hatfield generally thought the car seemed in good condition, wouldn't put me off buying it. There were however a few issues, mainly (a) the radio wasn't working (b) the front suspension arms need replacing as the bushes have gone and (c) the brake pads were crumbling all around.

The dealer think the current owner can get (a) done under their existing warranty. They tried to tell me (b) and (c) weren't important, but I've not accepted that. They're hoping McLaren will fix (b) for free as well.

The brake pads still have plenty of thickness (80%), but there are small parts that have come away around the edges. Unfortunately they didn't remove the pads from the calipers to inspect them fully, they recommended either doing that, or just replacing them.

Issue is, it's £1800 for a full set of brake pads, and my concern is if the pads fall apart it might damage the frightfully pricey discs (as discussed above). I guess I might meet them halfway on this one if they can sort out everything else. A possible help in this situation is as the car is Sale or Return there are three parties involved, the owner, the dealer and me. So the dealer can potentially put a bit of their commission into the pot to make the sale go through, as well as the owner.

I'm still telling myself I could find a car at a franchised dealer that would presumably have these sort of things sorted out for similar money, so I'm not of the mindset I have to get this car at all costs. Having said that, I do like it and hope to get it, so will be prepared to be a little bit flexible to make it happen.

[dodint]

Neat, good for you for sticking to your guns. I hope it works out!

[samoht]

Went to see the car again yesterday.

Got to walk all around it this time. There's a stone chip on the passenger door which could use a touch-up to make it less visible; plus a couple on the wing mirror arms (no big deal). It seems like the PPF has done a really good job protecting the majority of the exposed panels, and it's just a few of the less obvious places without PPF which have been hit. Still, overall it seems really good cosmetically.

Had a test drive, it was short but just long enough to remind me why I love these cars, the steering is so good. I prefer the alcantara wheel in this over the leather-wrapped one in the car I hired last summer. I think the slightly softer / more refined 570GT is perfect, a bit 'nicer' ride than the 570S, lacking some of that car's impact harshness, but the steering connection is still spot-on.

There was a bit of a rattle when the engine was at 1,000 rpm, which was annoying but I'm sure is a loose heat shield or similar resonating, and nothing serious. They'll try and find it, otherwise I'll try and get McLaren to do it under the warranty I'm taking out on the car.

The suspension arms and radio will be fixed by McLaren under the current owners warranty, although the radio I'll have to wait til September for them to get parts.
Finally the salesman agreed to a compromise on the brake pads - I'll add another £900, and they'll fit new original McLaren pads all around.

So that's it, we've agreed that they'll address all the issues and then I'll buy it for £102,900. I'm really excited! Just trying to stay patient while they sort the issues and get it ready to collect. It's my birthday next month...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8DqKp6qkO3Xu_2Ojl2DjMh-E_7jyRWHXuK3TdXJLtyzBEVe3FPhEEbPS-li0h0Qqp4bz0sysx6i1peZJMylAUK84VptHRaqbL8ak6Vy02MC Oo3y_MIlUNUpXm9trux_ft0j5NPwds7At3Gt5rUB6fIm7g=w25 26-h1894-no?authuser=0

[Godson]

That car looks so much better than the other one. The orange really shines in overcast conditions.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Woohoo!

So happy for you that everything worked out!

Can’t wait to see all the cool adventure pics… of course probably won’t be as ‘sexy’ as Kchrpm’s pics, but I’m sure I’ll still be able to enjoy them! :p

[Dicknose]

Woohoo!!!

[Kchrpm]

Fantastic!

[Rare White Ape]

FUCK YEAH

[dodint]

Good stuff, excited for you!

[Phil_SS]

Schwing!

Awesomesauce! So excited for you. :D

[Yw-slayer]

Sweeeeeet

[samoht]

I've arranged to collect the car a week today, Sat 11th. Could be a good start to my birthday week :D

It's booked in to McLaren to replace the suspension arms on Tuesday, they'll change the brake pads after that, then should all be good to go. I've arranged insurance (~£850 for the year), and checked the trains to get to St Albans to pick it up. Weather forecast is around the 0-10 degrees C range, hopefully they won't be salting the roads, and since the car's already on Michelin PS4S tyres it'll probably have ok grip in the daytime temps.


Thanks for all the shared excitement :) I'll look forward to getting some driving impressions and better photos as the weather and time permit.

[Kchrpm]

I'll look forward to getting some driving impressions and better photos as the weather and time permit.

Anywhere near Nottingham? ;) https://www.instagram.com/hootersnotts/

Oh man, they have ribs, steaks, waffles, and American car Sundays!

[Crazed_Insanity]

:lol:

Maybe you should fly over there and have a photo shoot of his new ride and all eh... ribs, steaks, waffles?

The dude is married, so probably can't take photos as good as you. :p

[samoht]

I've arranged to collect the car a week today, Sat 11th. Could be a good start to my birthday week :D

It's booked in to McLaren to replace the suspension arms on Tuesday, they'll change the brake pads after that, then should all be good to go.

Well, the dealer haven't managed to get the car back and get the brake pads changed, so collection has been postponed to Wednesday 15th.

McLaren Hatfield have now decided the suspension arms are fine and don't need changing. Anyway as long as I can put a warranty on the car, it shouldn't matter to me. Certainly when I test drove the car I didn't hear or feel anything.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Aw man! They're such a tease... was so looking forward to it dethroning Kchrpm's Corvette as the fastest GTXF car, but I guess we'll have to wait a bit longer. :p

[HondaKid86]

Happy birthday, Tom! Congratulations!

[Phil_SS]

So, today is the day eh? :D

[samoht]

Thanks HK :up: Birthday is actually tomorrow, but I was able to get my present today :)

Unfortunately the salesman who I've been dealing with has been off sick (glandular fever, doesn't sound fun), so I dealt with another guy. I wasn't 100% keen on buying from these sort of independent supercar dealers (Romans St Albans), but I have to say they've been pretty friendly and helpful. They try and persuade you that something isn't an issue, but if you insist that no, it is an issue for me, they are pretty good about finding a way to sort it out. Generally they've made buying from them a pretty pleasant experience.

The handover was smooth, just few bits of paperwork I needed with the car.

Car's looking great, the sun came out today so got to see the shine in the paint.

Driving back directly from St Albans to Cambridge would take just over an hour, but I decided to go the long way. There's a road which appears in quite a few car magazines, the B660, which runs north out of Bedford, so I extended my return route to take it in. Now to be honest it's not that good a road, there's more time spent trickling through villages than there is in the quick squirts between them, but I did get a few good bits. This car is so quick. It seems to be configured currently to warn you "You're exceeding the Speed Limit!", let's just say I heard a lot of that on the way back, often just as I was getting on the throttle to really get stuck into a more open bit of road. I did see one policeman checking speed, luckily in a village where I wasn't speeding anyway. The steering is fab, pretty much just as I remembered from last summer in the hired 570S. I think it's a bit less exaggerated in the GT, but the same feeling is present and correct. I was taking it fairly easy in the corners as the surface wasn't 100% clean or dry, and I don't want to try and go too fast too soon with this car, but it's impressive how 'cleanly' it turns, dealing with a bend in one fell swoop with little sense of having to transition into and out of the turn. It's a bit astonishing how capable it is really.

The other good thing is it dealt with the narrow country road, bumps, tight villages etc all very well. It's also decently comfy and refined on the motorway, and visibility is mostly very open. So it's a liveable car, as well as being incredible on a half-decent road.

I have to admit, I do also enjoy seeing little kids' reactions to the car, got a fair bit of attention today. It's fun seeing children's uninhibited pleasure and interest in the car. I didn't buy it to be the centre of attention, but I don't feel it's a drawback. (Can always take the silver Merc when I want to be anonymous).

The other good news is that the garage door, which has cost £5k and three months delay to the car hunt, is absolutely what was needed. It wasn't easy to get the McLaren into the garage, but I did get it in first time without any big problems. I could even open the door and get out afterwards!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8CkulT7caQASrjs6ktdEy-lRZamY_CX8dzQ7brGbJPG9-ywefkiox2yGHMXmjQDAP2BJ-bRVhSjfPrxI8Jei4tw3vrYuSMl-axqS_QhcT9DYwBdoakN9XhWZ8jw5o36LWfsZYYTxXusjjHifaw b2jqL5g=w2438-h1828-s-no

(Let me know if the pic doesn't show up).

Sorry not to have more pics. It's a bit tricky pulling this off the road, often you need to slow down and wait for the nose lift before you can pull off. And today I had quite a bit on my mind. I'm definitely going to grab some photos this weekend, I'll start a new thread for the car then.

[Godson]

Fucking WICKED

[dodint]

Very cool. Makes me nervous seeing the car so close all that brick. :lol:

[Crazed_Insanity]

That is indeed a bit of a tight squeeze even with your widened garage door! :eek:

BTW, who's that stalker checking out the rear end of your new car? :D

Anyway, so happy for you!

Kchrpm has now officially been dethroned as the fastest GTXFer! However, I'm sure his car will always have way better 'accessories' than yours! :p

[XHawkeye]

:up: :up:

[Kchrpm]

Awesome! Very happy for you :)

[Kchrpm]

Kchrpm has now officially been dethroned as the fastest GTXFer! However, I'm sure his car will always have way better 'accessories' than yours! :p

I think Bryan is the fastest GTXFer, regardless of car :)

[Rare White Ape]

(Let me know if the pic doesn't show up).


Oh the pic shows up alright.

It's one hell of a selfie.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think Bryan is the fastest GTXFer, regardless of car :)

Yeah technically you’re right, but he’s turned pro already so he doesn’t really count!

Let’s remove driver skills and just have the GTXer drag race his fastest car…

Actually, what are the official 0-60 numbers of your Vette and samoht’s new ride? Maybe your Vette could still be faster?

On track, surely Mclaren will have faster lap time?

Guess it’s difficult to determine a king… :p

[Yw-slayer]

Excellent stuff. Look forward to seeing it in the metal!

[samoht]

In that pic there's actually what I would consider plenty of space around the car, getting it in and out of there requires getting a lot closer to the brickwork (of the garage, the entrance, and the houses). I suspect that suburban houses in North America have quite a bit more space typically than ours do in Europe, perhaps. I'd consider this a fairly decent-sized single garage, access is just a bit tight.

Incidentally, I'm not interested in being 'top dog' or any one-upmanship, generally competition is a zero-sum game which doesn't much interest me, I'd rather do my own thing. What makes me happy is to see the number of excellent automobiles owned by various GTXFers, 25 years after one NSX owner brought us together. The teenage dreaming to reality trajectory is cool.

Now I just have to wait til the weekend to drive it again :)

And yeah, if anyone's around, happy to meet up.

[FaultyMario]

i was going to ask, does the German cat now sleep outside?

[Crazed_Insanity]

What a humble dude. I can still fondly remembering GT racing the likes of Egag, Karma and even Cuda and tried my hardest and failed to catch up to them, but they're all so humble and brushed it off like it's nothing and they're just doing it for their own enjoyment... blah, blah, blah... :blahblah:

Anyway, so very glad to see a super dude matched up with a supercar! Looking forward to all your new adventures! :)

[samoht]

i was going to ask, does the German cat now sleep outside?

Yeah, fraid so, it's back to the driveway after having a place in the garage in the interval between the FD departing and the Mac arriving.

[CudaMan]

I've been waiting to post congratulations until the car was in your hands, and now I can say how happy I am for you! And happy birthday too! There's nothing quite like a good mid-engined car. I can only imagine how amazing this one is. Well chosen and I hope it brings you lots of enjoyment and positive experiences. :up: When is the first track day? :D

[CudaMan]

I drive the slowest cars, no ego here. :lol: Only one has any hope of cracking the 15-second 1/4 mile barrier, and that's mainly because it can launch like (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0nCxdtqLYs) the business (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq8lCwoVuQo&t=11s). It might actually keep up with a McLaren or C7 to 30mph. :p

Power is fun. For me the driving feel and character is the thing I place the most importance on, as long as the car can get out of its own way. For example I love the *character* of the little 1.8 in the Spyder, with its throttle cable, the noises it makes, and its reasonably responsive (but not hyper responsive) sensitivity, but it's about 20hp and ft-lbs shy of being "enough" in my view. Especially these days with EVs and torquey SUVs with seamless transmissions making quick work of the stoplight drags with modest throttle input.

Garage space can vary a ton in the US. It really depends on where you are in this vast land and what type of dwelling you're in. Most suburban houses in my area have at least 2-car garages, however they're not always spacious. Garages with proper space to walk around the cars and open both doors aren't common. I'll post some details of mine in my own thread, I'm always hunting for ways to make more room in it. :lol:

[samoht]

Thanks Cuda, yes it's pretty amazing. BTW, if you're in the UK then I'll try and arrange things so you can have a go if at all possible.

Track day, not for a little while, need to let the bank balance recover! But will happen.


Had my first 'glitch' yesterday. I thought I'd check out the rear luggage hatch, so released it, then it took a massive slam to close. It seemed latched, but the car thought otherwise, and refused to lock up. I called Romans today, they said they can be temperamental but shouldn't be hard to close, and to try taking it for a drive to settle it down. It took a couple of stops, but eventually I got it to latch. The glass only covers a super-shallow area over the engine, the bulk of the luggage area is more easily accessed from the cabin, so I think I'll leave the rear hatch firmly shut in future!

Since I'd taken the car out, I thought I'd go for a run despite it being dark. WHAT A CAR! I inadvertently put it into Sport handling and powertrain when I put the gearbox to manual shifts, wow! Driving the Red Bull X2010 in GT is the closest I can compare it to, just ludicrous speed and zips around the corners like they're straights.

Actually I may have got a bit carried away, since the car stepped out on me. I was going round a longish left hander, fairly tight, maybe 40-60 mph, throttle closed. I think I was just smoothly feeding in the steering lock, and the back slipped wide. I chucked a bit of corrective lock at it, which didn't quite seem to stop the tail, but then (I assume) the stability control caught it and everything went straight back to normal. Now, it was a country road in the dark, so I didn't see the road surface, there may have been mud or something else slippery down. Or I was just going too fast, since this car makes corners feel so easy. It may not have helped that I'd got handling in sport mode, either. But I didn't think I was going very quickly.
Anyway, I'll keep handling carefully in normal for a bit, and take it easy in tighter stuff.

Still, I'm just buzzing from driving it. The problem is now I want to go out again, the speed and the whole experience is so addictive. Auto mode doesn't cut it, the gearbox needs to be manual, then it's just magic.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Reading it is giving me a buzz! :p

Anyway, please take it easy and at least do it during broad daylight dude!

Hope your bank account will recover soon! Can’t wait to see and hear it flying around track! :)

[Rare White Ape]

Your anecdote reminds me of riding a motorcycle on a good back road. Extremely visceral fun on a high performance ride, and you think this all should be illegal given how fast and dangerous it all seems. Makes me miss it, quite frankly.

But I did it for 10% of the cost :p

And 20000000% of the risk :sadbanana:

This bit:


Actually I may have got a bit carried away, since the car stepped out on me. I was going round a longish left hander, fairly tight, maybe 40-60 mph, throttle closed. I think I was just smoothly feeding in the steering lock, and the back slipped wide.

And we AAAAAAALLLLLLLL should already know this (everyone's eyes will roll) but it's a good time to remind ourselves anyway: a high performance car has high performance abilities, so when it all goes wrong, it goes wrong at high performance speeds.

A hatchback might not be as fun but in that situation it could have been nothing more than a murmur, dab of oppo and off you go. This car requires more mental input if you're pushing it a wee bit.

Taking the poseur approach might be a good way to make sure it doesn't end up in a ditch. McLaren is only a few letters of the alphabet and a couple of constructors titles away from 'Ferrari' after all.

This car will give you many, many years of fun :)

[samoht]

Yeah, funnily enough I did think last night, how is it legal that anyone can just go and buy something this crazy? And I also thought, although I have no experience, this must be getting up into fast-bike territory in terms of how fast it gains speed between the corners. Motorbiking is just a whole different set of trade-offs in terms of dynamics, clothing and risk, as well as obviously the price of entry, exactly as you say. Actually it makes me happy to think that this kind of thrill isn't closed off to only the more fortunate, but nearly anyone who's dedicated enough can probably get themselves a half-decent bike and enjoy it.

I take your point about taking care. It's far too much fun not to start dipping into the performance and trying to get the car into a flow, but I'm certainly keen to ease myself into it and build up slowly, and to be more conscious of just how fast I'm still travelling when I come off the brakes to turn in. The 'moment' last night wasn't that dramatic in fact, not like a half-spin or anything, but it was a good warning. I'm also planning to get it along to a specialist for geometry setup, that'll also let them check it's all sensible.


Anyway, I wanted to say thanks to everyone for their input on this thread, it's been an enjoyable and thought-provoking process over the past nine months.

Since I've now got the car, I thought I'd start a new thread for my ownership, together with some more pics - see here http://gtxforums.net/showthread.php?2165-Samoht-2019-McLaren-570GT