Forza Motorsport (Spring 2023)

[Kchrpm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hrsYu8Vy04

- "48 times" more complex physics (whatever that means)
- Full day-night time transitions with resulting track temperature drops and changing environmental lighting
- Ray tracing on, like, everything (they showed reflections of other cars in on bodywork)
- Fuel and tire management in the pits, including multiple tire compounds
- Time and weather options are at every track

Edit: Here's the original thread about this game that I made last year and didn't find before making this thread: http://gtxforums.net/showthread.php?2054-Forza-Motorsport

[Kchrpm]

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2022/06/12/the-all-new-forza-motorsport-is-the-most-technically-advanced-racing-game-ever-made/

[Rare White Ape]

Pit stops with tyre compounds?

Well, they’re already ahead of Project Cars 3.

[Blerpa]

So far it seems they could be already ahead of Gran Turismo 7... not that it would be anything more than a minor feat.

[Tom Servo]

I'm guessing the "48x more fidelity" for the physics is likely how often the physics calculations are run. I feel like that's been a selling point for a while now for racing sims/games, but if you're just sorta fudging the physics (as most do with complex things like tire models), it just means you're fudging it more often.

[Yobbo NZ]

Mentioned on a chat, they still seemed to be focused on graphics, graphics, graphics, oh physics update, check out the trees, rocks etc.
It's a racing game, not a tree/river/rock watching sim.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, so far I'm unimpressed. I mean, it looks fine, and it might be because GT7 has forsaken me, but this is probably the first "this looks amazing" racing sim(ish) reveal that I just feel "meh" about.

[Rare White Ape]

I'm guessing the "48x more fidelity" for the physics is likely how often the physics calculations are run. I feel like that's been a selling point for a while now for racing sims/games, but if you're just sorta fudging the physics (as most do with complex things like tire models), it just means you're fudging it more often.

Meanwhile iRacing is pottering along with physics that run at 60 Hz and doing just fine.

48 is 8 multiplied by 6. The “48x more fidelity” could be to do with the number of physics parameters, or the bitrate in which they’re processed by the CPU, or the incremental steps present in each measurement.

Who knows? It’s all guff unless you’re a programmer, a professional racer, or are magically able to extract 0.001 out of each corner better than the 2nd fastest guy.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, I thought about maybe the size of the data types or something, but I'd assume everything's been working with a word size of 8 bytes for the past 10+ years, so I'd be either surprised that they've figured out a way to do 384 byte word sizes or that up until this point, they'd been doing 1.3 byte word sizes.

[Kchrpm]

Mentioned on a chat, they still seemed to be focused on graphics, graphics, graphics, oh physics update, check out the trees, rocks etc.
It's a racing game, not a tree/river/rock watching sim.

For the nature of this event, it makes sense. If you look at all of the other game trailers and discussions, it was effectively the same thing. The fact we got talks about dynamic weather and time/lighting, plus fuel and tire management in the pits, are already exciting additions for the community even if the physics are effectively the same as FM7, and they have talked previously about improvements to the way they simulate tires.

Actually, the change in tire model might be the 48x thing they were talking about...

Either way, they have a Forza Monthly presentation this week where they're going to talk about it more.

I forgot there was already an FM thread that I made! Quoting myself:


Watching the video now and taking any other minor notes:
- The physics changes between 7 and 8 are bigger than the changes between 4 and 7.
- The 8 points of tire contacts will refresh at 360 hz, instead of 60 hz for the one point previously
- No mention of deformation to go with all this tire contact patch talk
- Curbs can be approached with confidence because of the improvement in tire model and better road/curb fidelity
- Really wants to keep hitting on it being Forza Motorsport, not Forza Motorsport 8, but the interviewer wants to keep saying "it's an evolution"
- Hard, medium, and soft compounds currently, and want to add more in the future
- Goal with tire compounds is deepening strategy, brings up F1
- "A bunch of environmental factors that will change gameplay and really make each lap feel different": track temperature affects tire pressure, grip, and wear; time of day and weather changes
- Playtests are very focused so they can get specific details, I think the one they've done so far has been multiplayer only
- There will be another update after the summer playtest, they will get larger as they continue

[Blerpa]

It's 2022, graphics are IMPORTANT.
As Keith said EVERY game trailer did that, also any single trailer of a PC sim, simcade and racing game shows off graphics as well as action on the track, so I don't see anything different from the usual.
Also they presented a lot of other interesting and positive features which encompass what is motorsport and car racing (more than winning random tickets to buy components of a car and chatting with people in a hipster cafeteria...).

I truly hope physics are NOT the same as FM7 which for me would suck arse.
Even FH5 physics with a big push on the simulative side and a deeper realistic feel would be better, IMHO.

So far it looks like I'd buy this game, it looks way more like a proper racing race car game than that shiny car collector emulator does on the whitey box...

[Yobbo NZ]

It was more their emphasis on "Look at the foliage on the trees, check out the detail on those rocks".
Surely no one stops their car, mid race and goes "Shiiiiet, check out the detail of that cliff face".
Not much details on the actual racing side of things, you know, what the game is about.

[Kchrpm]

Plenty of people love photo mode, which is essentially stopping in the middle of a race to check out details.

But I agree, that bit wasn't very interesting to me.

[Rare White Ape]

Surely no one stops their car, mid race and goes "Shiiiiet, check out the detail of that cliff face".

The TV ad campaign for Gran Turismo 3 had variations of exactly this :lol:

The car would slam into the barrier because the driver was too busy checking out the scenery.

[Yobbo NZ]

The TV ad campaign for Gran Turismo 3 had variations of exactly this :lol:

The car would slam into the barrier because the driver was too busy checking out the scenery.

I do vaguely remember that ad, GT3 was a long long time ago now.

[Freude am Fahren]

Touting their new damage model then showing carbon fiber dent and scratch...

[Kchrpm]

Watching the Forza Monthly livestream:
- There will be more details in future Forza Monthly events, as they get closer to release
- Multiplayer is going to be race weekend style, with practice, qualifying, and scheduled races, as detailed before (https://www.gtplanet.net/forza-motorsport-to-feature-deeper-more-authentic-multiplayer-experience/)

The focus of the last playtest brought this to light through the live event structure with open practice, qualifying, and the feature race. As the game is now, there’s a calendar of open and upcoming events that players can join, each of which features the previously mentioned open practice and qualifying sessions before moving players to the main event — a typical race weekend in the world of motorsports.
- Raytracing is all the time, not just in replays or photo mode
- Can set time, passage of time speed (including real time), and weather for all tracks (more details about free play mode later)
- Track temp will be affected by time of day and weather (no talk about different seasons/time of year like PC2 does)
- Tracks will rubber in
- Unique damage model for each car, and wheels can be damaged (no mention of dented carbon fiber)
- Fuel weight is incorporated in physics
- Soft, Medium, Hard tires introduce strategy
- Kyalami and fantasy GP circuit, in Japan near Mt Fuji, are new tracks

He also mentioned a "Year in Review" on the Forza site that covers everything they talked about with the game in Forza Monthly's last year, but I don't see an article, maybe he just meant this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17CWQGgCq24

[Blerpa]

So, PS5 are impossible to find in Italy, I'm plenty ok with my PC but GT7 hitch sometimes resurfaces it (although my last PS was the PS2 and last GT owned was GT3) amidst all the critics on the game... I managed to find a mate of a mate which is selling the PS5 for 600 euro with AC Valhalla and two controllers.
BUT... FM gives me reasons to think "nah, I'm probably good with my PC sims and eventually FM for my simcade needs without shelling on a new console".
Plus 600 euro buys you plenty of sim hardware...

[Rare White Ape]

A good PC performs double-duty by being able to play any first-party Microsoft game that comes out. I've tried to nudge you towards Game Pass before...

It's worth looking into, mostly in order to ameliorate your misgivings about investing heavily in games you might find yourself disappointed in after spending full price on them (*cough* FH5 *cough*).

If you're GP subscriber and the next FM disappoints you, then it's easy to uninstall it and move on to everything else that GP provides. I'm currently enjoying TMNT Shredder's Revenge tonight, so... enjoying what I can for my monthly fee.

[Blerpa]

RWA, I've Gamepass as well as single bought games ;)

[Kchrpm]

Breakdown by Digital Foundry of the gameplay and replay footage shown this week


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIiEPpjFS48

[Kchrpm]

The FAQ has been updated on the website: https://support.forzamotorsport.net/hc/en-us/articles/6923567669395-Forza-Motorsport-June-2022-Update-

The only new info is that the XBox Series S will run it at 60 fps with ray tracing, but at 1080p (as opposed to 1440p which I believe is its maximum output resolution for games).

[Rare White Ape]

There will be new gameplay footage of Forza Motorsport shown during Microsoft's upcoming Xbox Developer_Direct announcement showcase on 25th January at 8pm UK time.

[Kchrpm]

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2023/01/25/forza-motorsport-delivers-a-generational-leap-in-fidelity-immersion-and-realism/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHgceB5vzhk

[stephenb]

Timely, I was only looking yesterday to see if there was any recent news about this. Will be keeping an eye on the PC version, just in case there is a surprise in respect of VR. Although only 20 environments is dissapointing, very bare bones when compared with AMS2.

[Kchrpm]

But but...each environment is based off of 3 TBs of data!!!

I'm pretty disappointed with today's presentation, and just hoping they dig in and show the multiplayer and single player modes tomorrow during Forza Monthly. And an explanation of when they actually expect to ship the thing, since it went from Spring 2023 to just 2023.

[Kchrpm]

So the Forza Monthly today wasn't all about Motorsport like I had hoped, it was just Chris Esaki saying basically the same things we saw yesterday with no new footage. There were two pieces of information that I think were new: an old version of Laguna Seca will be included, and there will be ballast adjustments. He also mentioned that fuel weight will be calculated and it wasn't in previous games, which I didn't know it wasn't (so much for all of the time I thought I could make up time running on low fuel!) so I don't know if it's been mentioned previously.

More details on campaign and multiplayer will be shared "in the coming months", so is this going to be a fall release now or what?

[Yobbo NZ]

I just can't get excited by these teasers anymore, maybe it's age, maybe it's being let down by all the promises that never eventuate. No doubt I'll still buy it, but not with any real enthusiasm.

[stephenb]

While I haven't played the recent installments the series probably peaked with 2 for me. Played the crap out of that one, then gradually tailed off over 3 and 4.

[Kchrpm]

I just can't get excited by these teasers anymore, maybe it's age, maybe it's being let down by all the promises that never eventuate. No doubt I'll still buy it, but not with any real enthusiasm.

That's how most of the community seems to feel. The teasers are terrible at this point.

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah this is pretty milquetoast so far. Thank god it’s going to be on Game Pass otherwise I’d never give it a second look.

I am keen to see how multiplayer goes though, as a less intense way to get some racing kicks than iRacing.

[Kchrpm]

Someone on Mid-Ohio's Facebook page pointed out that the track is clearly seen in one of the gameplay clips, so that's one of the new tracks.

[Rare White Ape]

Mid-Ohio is great. But you probably already knew this.

A bit crazy with IMSA classes, but in iRacing driving a V8 Supercar... oh yes!

[Rare White Ape]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrM_ux6yYvw&ab_channel=Xbox

I wonder if this will help sighted players who obviously drive like they're blind too :p

[Rare White Ape]

Forza is getting two showcases in June: on the 11th, which will focus on some of the cars, and on the 13th, a deep dive into the single player gameplay.

Turn 10 has also revealed that the Cadillac LMDh and Corvette E-Ray will be the cover cars.

That is all.

[dodint]

Why is Microsoft so bad at naming things?

[Tom Servo]

They say the two hardest problems in software are caching, naming things, and off-by-one errors.

[dodint]

(heh)

Sure, it might be tough to name something.

But as long as you don't use the following names you can't really mess up too bad:

Forza Motorsport
Forza Motorsport 2
Forza Motorsport 3
Forza Motorsport 4
Forza Horizon
Forza Motorsport 5
Forza Horizon 2
Forza Motorsport 6
Forza Horizon 3
Forza Motorsport 7
Forza Horizon 4
Forza Street
Forza Horizon 5


Oh, hey, it's already in use, the first one on the list. Dummies.

Brought to you by the makers of XBox 360 One S Series X.

[Blerpa]

It's a recurring new trend to reignite durable franchises with a simple name as the first name of the franchise without any numbers, in many media, cinema included.
If Forza Motorsport sounds dumb to you compared to Forza Motorsport 8, do not go trying to figure out why after "Lords of the Fallen" (soul like game out in 2014) CI Games is doing... "Lords of the Fallen" (will be out in October 2023).
It was supposed to be "The Lords of the Fallen". Then it was changed to "Lords of the Fallen: The Dark Crusade", but they did reason it would sound like a DLC title (wtf?).
So they decided to call the new upcoming game as the old one... "Lords of the Fallen".
Which will not be a sequel. Neither a remaster. Nor a remake.
Kind of a reboot of the series.
A series comprised of... one game published so far.

*FACEPALM*

[Kchrpm]

See also Tomb Raider, God of War, Star Wars: Battlefront, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, basically everything on this list:
https://www.giantbomb.com/same-name-reboot/3015-6524/games/

Slight offshoot: Mortal Kombat 1.

[Rare White Ape]

It’s easy to understand if you just append it with the year of publication in brackets.

Everyone knows the exact year every game was published, right?

[Kchrpm]

The trailer released today was light on new info and details, but the news article on their website has some confirmations. The Forza Monthly on Tuesday is supposed to have actual gameplay as well.

https://forza.net/news/forza-motorsport-coming-october-10

[Yobbo NZ]

I'm going to guess the Steam version won't be crossplay with the Xbox version?

[Blerpa]

I'm going to guess the Steam version won't be crossplay with the Xbox version?

Horizon 4 and 5 were crossplay (cannot remember about FM7), so I do not see why it should not be.

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah most of Microsoft's published games of the last half-decade are cross play with console and PC.

Forze being a tentpole title will surely follow suit.

[Yobbo NZ]

I had never looked on Steam for any Forza games. Thought it was a Gamepass/Microsoft thing only.

[Kchrpm]

Problem: Your game with a traditionally passionate fanbase is free on day one with Game Pass, meaning you can't monetize that passion until you create premium DLC.

Solution: Offer a DLC package at launch!

https://forza.azureedge.net/strapi-uploads/assets/massive_FM_Steelhead_SKU_Comparison_Chart_3840x216 0_bf1fb4d66e.webp

Why play the game for free as part of your subscription when you could pay $30 (a guess, it's not listed yet) for the add-on bundle! Sure the base game is $70, so paying an additional $30 for *checks* 38 more cars makes perfect sense!

[Tom Servo]

I had never looked on Steam for any Forza games. Thought it was a Gamepass/Microsoft thing only.

It's pretty recent that they started showing up on Steam, I think it was well after FH5 came out. I wish I'd known that was going to happen, as it'd be fun to play on my Steam Deck.

[Blerpa]

The first one to appear was Forza Horizon 5 (along with Halo Master Chief Collection), but yeah, MS has a deal with Steam to bring many of its iconic first party games on Valve's launcher.
I will get the base Forza Motorsport for free with Gamepass: if I've learnt anything is that it is useless to splash on passes and pack, later on the cars inside it will be sold by other players.
And anyway there are plenty of useable cars in the base game.

[Kchrpm]

As long as they don't hide something I really want in it, I should be ok...

[Kchrpm]

They still don't seem to understand what people are actually asking for in the career mode. For years, YEARS, there have been two major camps:

- Start with a slow car, slowly modify it using winnings to make it fast enough to go to the next class, use those winnings to modify the car even more, as far as you can go
- Open up everything from the beginning, let the player fully decide what to do

What did they decide to do? Dozens of series that require you select from a specific category of car, and then you have ~5 races to earn experience points to level up and modify that car.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lNR2Kk_f4Y

Do you get to have one car that you build up slowly and compete against all types of other cars? No.

Do you get to have access to any car or modification you want from the beginning? No.

Oh, and there's a practice mode before each race, but there's no qualifying. YOU JUST PICK WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO START.

We're still waiting on more info about multiplayer, they have said there will be free play and driver/safety rankings. Also, in the video on the menus you can see "Featured Multiplayer" and "Private Multiplayer".

[Kchrpm]

https://support.forzamotorsport.net/hc/en-us/articles/17466893801619-Forza-Motorsport-June-2023-Update

More details posted:


Q: Does Forza Motorsport feature an animated pit crew as shown in the trailer?

A: Pit crews primarily show up in our Featured Multiplayer mode – stay tuned for more info when we talk about pitting and Featured Multiplayer later this summer.

Another thing: there are no loot boxes or any kind of random prizes.

Also, according to a video I'm watching based on a private Q&A with content creators

- The effect of drafting is increased from reality: the hole in the air is larger and more effective than it "should" be
- Similarly but in the other direction, the effect of dirty tires after going off-course is there but lower than it "should" be
- ABS and traction control are still just on/off, not adjustable. That's not a good sign, considering the real life race cars that are designed around having adjustable versions of those aids to control/tune those cars

[Yobbo NZ]

It's gonna be shit.
I'll have to buy it anyways.

[Rare White Ape]

Heh. I’m not really surprised. They have to do things which help it appeal to the mass market, which is why all the promo images and trailers usually flip from showing off how shiny the cars are, to showing off how awesome they look when they crash in slow-mo.

[Phil_SS]

First thing I thought of when they guy was discussing picking the car and then driving it to unlock upgrades was, "hmmm, that sounds just like an RPG" and then he says, it's a CarRPG.

Part of me thinks that is cool like the loner single player part of me. But the series organizer side of me does not, that would suck for trying to pick cars and then tune them for a series. But I guess if you get all the mods after 5 races, then maybe that would be ok but not really...

And also, how does that work for a race car. Like there shouldn't be mods for a full on race car.

I'm wondering if all cars with all mods will be available to race online from the start.....

[Kchrpm]

Tuning of race cars is always a tough thing. We want them to be BOPed, or to be able to BOP them ourselves, but Forza's tools for tuning them are usually lacking. They added ballast, in increments of 2.5% of the vehicle's base weight, but we don't know what else we'll be capable of doing.

[Blerpa]

It seems this is going to be the base game cars and tracks list:

Cars:

• 2018 Acura #36 NSX GT3
• 2017 Acura NSX
• 2017 Alpine A110
• 1990 Alpine GTA Le Mans
• 1971 AMC Javelin AMX
• 2018 Apollo Intensa Emozione
• 2017 Aston Martin #7 Aston Martin Racing V12 Vantage GT3
• 2016 Aston Martin Vulcan
• 1989 Aston Martin #18 Aston Martin AMR1
• 1958 Aston Martin DBR1
• 2021 Audi RS e-tron GT
• 2021 Audi RS6 Avant
• 2018 Audi #44 R8 LMS GT3
• 2018 Audi TT RS
• 2016 Audi #17 Rotek Racing TT RS
• 2016 Audi R8 V10 plus
• 2014 Audi #2 Audi Team Joest R18 e-tron quattro
• 2013 Audi R8 Coupé V10 plus 5.2 FSI quattro
• 2014 BAC Mono
• 2014 Bentley #17 M-Sport Bentley Continental GT3
• 2003 Bentley #7 Team Bentley Speed 8
• 2018 BMW #1 BMW M Motorsport M8 GTE
• 2017 BMW #24 BMW Team RLL M6 GTLM
• 1999 BMW #15 BMW Motorsport V12 LMR
• 1991 BMW M3
• 2019 Brabham BT62
• 1987 Buick Regal GNX
• 1970 Buick GSX
• 2023 Cadillac #01 Cadillac Racing V-Series.R
• 2023 Cadillac #31 Whelen Engineering Cadillac Racing V-Series.R
• 2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing
• 1966 Chaparral #66 Chaparral Cars 2E
• 2024 Chevrolet Corvette E-Ray
• 2020 Chevrolet #3 Corvette Racing C8.R
• 2020 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray Coupe
• 2018 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE
• 2015 Chevrolet #10 Konica Minolta Corvette Daytona Prototype
• 2014 Chevrolet #3 Corvette Racing Corvette C7.R
• 1970 Chevrolet Camaro Z28
• 1970 Chevrolet Chevelle Super Sport 454
• 1969 Chevrolet Camaro Super Sport Coupe
• 1969 Chevrolet Nova Super Sport 396
• 1972 Chrysler VH Valiant Charger R/T E49
• 2018 Dodge Challenger SRT Demon
• 2014 Dodge #93 SRT Motorsports Viper GTS-R
• 1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
• 1969 Dodge Charger R/T
• 1967 Eagle-Weslake T1G
• 2017 Ferrari #25 Corse Clienti 488 Challenge
• 1976 Ferrari #1 Scuderia Ferrari 312 T2
• 1967 Ferrari #24 Ferrari Spa 330 P4
• 2020 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500
• 2017 Ford GT
• 2016 Ford #66 Ford Racing GT Le Mans
• 2015 Ford #02 Chip Ganassi Racing Riley Mk XXVI Daytona Prototype
• 2014 Ford #17 AMD Tuning Focus ST BTCC
• 2005 Ford Ford GT
• 1987 Ford Sierra Cosworth RS500
• 1981 Ford #2 Zakspeed Racing Capri Turbo
• 1969 Ford Mustang Boss 302
• 1966 Ford #2 GT40 Mk II Le Mans
• 1965 Ford Mustang GT Coupe
• 2018 Formula Drift #64 Nissan 370Z
• 2017 Holden #22 Walkinshaw Performance VF Commodore
• 2020 Honda #73 LA Honda World Racing Civic
• 1967 Honda RA300
• 2020 Hyundai #98 Bryan Herta Autosport Veloster N
• 2015 Jaguar XKR-S GT
• 1993 Jaguar XJ220
• 1988 Jaguar #1 Jaguar Racing XJR-9
• 1983 Jaguar #44 Group 44 XJR-5
• 2020 Koenigsegg Jesko
• 2020 Lamborghini Huracán EVO
• 2019 Lamborghini Sián FKP 37
• 2018 Lamborghini Huracán Performante
• 2016 Lamborghini Centenario LP 770-4
• 1997 Lamborghini Diablo SV
• 1988 Lamborghini Countach LP5000 QV
• 2021 Lexus LC 500
• 2014 Lexus IS 350 F Sport
• 1969 Lola #10 Simoniz Special T163
• 2020 Lotus Evija
• 1976 Lotus #5 Team Lotus 77
• 2020 Lynk & Co #62 Cyan Racing 03
• 2014 Maserati Ghibli S Q4
• 2014 Mazda #70 SpeedSource Lola B12/80
• 1992 Mazda 323 GT-R
• 1991 Mazda #55 Mazda 787B
• 1991 Mazda #62 Mazda Motorsport RX-7
• 1990 Mazda MX-5 Miata
• 2018 McLaren Senna
• 2015 McLaren P1 GTR
• 2013 McLaren P1
• 1976 McLaren #11 Team McLaren M23
• 1969 McLaren #4 McLaren Cars M8B
• 1966 McLaren #4 Bruce McLaren Motor Racing M1B
• 1966 McLaren M2B
• 2011 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG
• 1990 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.5-16 Evolution II
• 1989 Mercedes-Benz #63 Sauber-Mercedes C 9
• 1970 Mercury Cougar Eliminator
• 1986 Merkur #11 MAC Tools XR4Ti
• 2021 MINI John Cooper Works GP
• 2023 Nissan Z
• 2020 Nissan GT-R NISMO (R35)
• 2019 Nissan 370Z Nismo
• 2015 Nissan #23 GT-R LM NISMO
• 1991 Nissan #23 Nissan R91CP
• 1988 Nissan #33 Bob Sharp Racing 300ZX
• 1985 Nissan #83 GTP ZX-Turbo
• 1984 Nissan #11 Tomica Skyline Turbo Super Silhouette
• 1984 Nissan #20 Bluebird Super Silhouette
• 1969 Nissan #21 Nissan Racing R382
• 1969 Oldsmobile Hurst/Olds 442
• 2016 Pagani Huayra BC
• 1993 Peugeot #3 Peugeot Talbot Sport 905 EVO 1C
• 1984 Peugeot 205 Turbo 16
• 1973 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am SD-455
• 1969 Pontiac GTO Judge
• 2021 Porsche 911 GT3
• 2021 Porsche Mission R
• 2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo S
• 2019 Porsche 911 GT3 RS
• 2018 Porsche 911 GT2 RS
• 2017 Porsche #2 Porsche Team 919 Hybrid
• 2017 Porsche #92 Porsche GT Team 911 RSR
• 2015 Porsche #91 Porsche Team Manthey 991 RSR
• 2014 Porsche 918 Spyder
• 1987 Porsche #17 Porsche AG 962C
• 1970 Porsche #3 917 LH
• 2015 Radical RXC Turbo
• 2019 RAESR Tachyon Speed
• 2021 Rimac Nevera
• 2004 Saleen S7
• 2014 Toyota #8 Toyota Racing TS040 HYBRID
• 1999 Toyota #3 Toyota Motorsports GT-ONE TS020
• 1992 Toyota #99 All American Racers Toyota Eagle Mk III


Tracks:

• Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya
• Circuit des 24 Heures du Mans (Le Mans)
• Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps
• Hakone Circuit
• Indianapolis Motor Speedway
• Kyalami Grand Prix Circuit
• Laguna Seca Raceway
• Maple Valley
• Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course
• Silverstone Circuit
• Suzuka Circuit
• Virginia International Raceway

[dodint]

Yay, Catalunya.

[Tom Servo]

Man, you definitely hope that's a limited list. Right off the bat, none of the original NSX?

[Rare White Ape]

I did see somewhere that the list is of content revealed ‘so far’ and will definitely grow.

Also heartening to see that Le Mans and Indy aren’t exclusivised into oblivion by the Motorsport Games fiasco.

[Kchrpm]

Those lists from Microsoft are generally "these are the cars that have been in the trailers and screenshots we've shared". In other words they have already had to get approval to use their likenesses in advertising, so they're allowed to put them on a list. Contractual limbo!

[Tom Servo]

Okay, whew. That was all looking a little sparse.

[Kchrpm]

There will be 500+ cars at launch, and that list is only *checks* 137.

That makes me feel better, because when you brought it up I checked and was annoyed that there weren't any C7 road cars.

As for tracks, there will be 20 at launch, and their list has only 12. 5 of them are new to the series, and the list has *checks* 3 of them. So we should see 8, 2 of which have never been in the series. Except the short oval in the quick trailer from Tuesday was a new fictional track called Eagle Rock Speedway, or similar, which isn't on the list, so make it 7 and 1 unless it's built into Hakone.

[Tom Servo]

Well, I hope it's good. I generally enjoy the Forza physics model, it's really just the progression I've hated in the past couple of them. You really had to run long races to earn enough money to buy anything, and at that point the sheer amount of time I was going to be devoting to the game just became daunting, and it felt like work. GT7 has the same problem.

[Kchrpm]

The problem is that's what a lot of people want, and they complain that they earn money too quickly in the games. Solving the problem would have required completely rethinking the way the single player campaigns work, but instead they just kind of...did a dumb thing.

[21Kid]

- Start with a slow car, slowly modify it using winnings to make it fast enough to go to the next class, use those winnings to modify the car even more, as far as you can go.First thing I thought of when they guy was discussing picking the car and then driving it to unlock upgrades was, "hmmm, that sounds just like an RPG" and then he says, it's a CarRPG.

Part of me thinks that is cool like the loner single player part of me. But the series organizer side of me does not, that would suck for trying to pick cars and then tune them for a series. But I guess if you get all the mods after 5 races, then maybe that would be ok but not really...

And also, how does that work for a race car. Like there shouldn't be mods for a full on race car.

I'm wondering if all cars with all mods will be available to race online from the start.....I've been one of those people waiting for a CARPG :lol:. I remember saving up my winnings from my Civic-esque starter car in GT2 for a MK3 Supra and absolutely loving how much better it was. And then I used kept modding that car and making it better until it couldn't keep up anymore. I got so used to it, that I could tell when I added shiny new headers. "I can't take that corner full speed anymore", etc...

I loved that feeling, and it's mostly why I've avoided all of the modern racing games. Here is $45 million dollars and 53 cars. Have fun! :|

Maybe there should be an easy money race series, for people that just want to earn lots of money, buy all the cars, etc... Have it based in Dubai. :lol:

[Rare White Ape]

Probably the best solution, and something that GT nailed from the get-go, is a deep career mode with progression that burns slowly but not too slowly, coupled with a robust arcade mode where some things like track availability are tied to career progression, but you get a host of fast cars for booming and zooming to get it out of your system.

And add in an online career-of-sorts with more than one mode:
- A hand-picked roster of fixed weekly car/track combos (a-la GT and iRacing) would funnel players into sessions to keep participation up for ranked races and would not need cars or tracks earned in career mode.
- A mode with various activities that are also curated by the developer, but with more open goals that give different options for players to achieve, which would use cars built in career mode, while also paying out in funds back to career mode for successful attempts.

[balki]

Yup, GT1 nailed it right away

I've been one of those people waiting for a CARPG :lol:. I remember saving up my winnings from my Civic-esque starter car in GT2 for a MK3 Supra and absolutely loving how much better it was. And then I used kept modding that car and making it better until it couldn't keep up anymore. I got so used to it, that I could tell when I added shiny new headers. "I can't take that corner full speed anymore", etc...

I loved that feeling, and it's mostly why I've avoided all of the modern racing games. Here is $45 million dollars and 53 cars. Have fun! :|

Maybe there should be an easy money race series, for people that just want to earn lots of money, buy all the cars, etc... Have it based in Dubai. :lol:
all of this x5

[Rare White Ape]

Yup, GT1 nailed it right away

And now we have… music rally.

[Tom Servo]

I actually love the CarPG idea, but just like an RPG, you have to strike the balance. Older ones did it well, you felt like you were progressing. If you couldn't win the next race and get your new car, you kinda knew where you went wrong with your upgrades or whatever. Now, there's literally no way you can win the next race, so you have to grind until you can. Or....you can drop some real cash.

That's the thing. RPGs have always been about progressing regularly as long as you played well, and if you didn't, you got a minor penalty where you had to try again. Now, you get to situations where you have to try 20+ times or drop $20 to get back to the progression we used to have.

GT7 kinda killed my enthusiasm for the CarPG. The sad part is is that I don't think any major studio can bring that back, because they'll all be beholden to the microtransaction.

[Kchrpm]

I'm happy that there are zero micro transactions for in-game credits in FM2023, and I'm just assuming their long term monetization plan will be selling car packs instead.

[Tom Servo]

100% okay with DLC car packs. It's making it essentially almost impossible to collect the cars in the base game unless you pay extra.

[Kchrpm]

Seems I forgot to update this after they showed details on the update tire physics and force feedback wheel gameplay for the first time in July.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkIau4v7rFQ&t=1880s

Also here's footage and info from the August stream and a private meeting they had with content creators


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMKNyHBdeXE

[Kchrpm]

Someone on Reddit did a TLDW for the multiplayer updates.

https://www.reddit.com/r/forza/comments/15po26k/comment/jvym7bt/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3


-Spec racing has cars balanced by T10, and can be rented if not owned.
-Qualifying will have other players ghosted.
-Tires and fuel can be set for qualy.
-Laps can be skipped in qualy in practice, which will put you on a rolling start before the last corner.
-Lobby remains the same throughout this "race weekend". So you practice, qualify and race against the same players in a race.
-Backmarkers aren't ghosted in Featured Multiplayer.
-Ai takes over if you pause during an online race at about 60% pace.
-They are trying to add the ability to rejoin the same race if disconnects happen.
-Some featured multiplayer races will have no need for pits, some will need pits, and some with have mandatory pits.
-No limits on amount of tires. You can pit just for tires or just for fuel too.
-Your fuel usage varies by car and driving style. Fuel weight also is factored into car physics.
-Tire walls are gone now, since Forza Race Regulations (FRR) can penalise you for cutting corners.
-FRR tracks naughty behaviour, so it can catch someone causing too much trouble in a race.
-FRR can be adjusted by T10 very easily, as it very modular.
-Track limits are redrawn.
-1000 to 5000 is the range for driver rating. S to F is the range for safety rating. No leaderboards for these at launch.
-No practice or qualy in Private lobbies. Leader's cars cannot be borrowed like in FH.
-No tire or fuel multipliers at launch in private multipleyer (will come after launch).
-You can join Featured and Private Multiplayer as a group. Lobbies will be then balanced by the average skill level.
-Proper spectator mode will be coming later (not the FM7 kind).
-Skip Lap is available in Rivals.
-Grand Oak raceway takes inspiration from VIR, meaning we might not get VIR in the game.

[Rare White Ape]

Gotta bear in mind that this is a game that is frustratingly built to cater toward casual and console players. I see a bunch of good things in there for multiplayer, but when I see this:


-No practice or qualy in Private lobbies.

...I do wonder if they are willing to give more serious players the tools to make it as serious as they hope it can be.

However, I am keeping an open mind that this can be an OK game for fooling around with pals with no pressure. I'll be taking some time to play it via Game Pass. I'm just not sure how long it'll keep my interest.

[Yobbo NZ]

However, I am keeping an open mind that this can be an OK game for fooling around with pals with no pressure. I'll be taking some time to play it via Game Pass. I'm just not sure how long it'll keep my interest.

How is it after all these years, I don't have you on my friends list?
You're holding out on me aren't you.

[21Kid]

"-Your fuel usage varies by car and driving style. Fuel weight also is factored into car physics"
:up: That's awesome!

[Kchrpm]

The 20 tracks at launch are official: https://forza.net/news/forza-motorsport-track-list

Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya
Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps
Eaglerock Speedway
Grand Oak Raceway
Hakone Circuit
Homestead-Miami Speedway
Indianapolis Motor Speedway
Kyalami Grand Prix Circuit
Le Mans - Circuit International de la Sarthe
Lime Rock Park
Maple Valley
Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course
Mugello Circuit
Nürburgring GP
Road America
Silverstone Circuit
Suzuka Circuit
Virginia International Raceway
Watkins Glen International Speedway
WeatherTech Raceway Laguna Seca

Tracks released after launch will all be free, as told to a YouTuber: https://twitter.com/DonJoewonSong/status/1697364933485166752

Also, the official revealed car list is up to 344 of 500+: https://forza.net/news/forza-motorsport-car-list

And preview codes have gone out and people are playing the game, with the embargo for previews lifting on Monday September 11th.

[speedpimp]

Pre-ordered it last night.

[Kchrpm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grgbhqczulU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9vRBpk5roU

[Kchrpm]

Digital Foundry getting a lot of technical details in an interview, great stuff. For example, they couldn't port over old tracks because, with the new tire model, the old track surfaces would have random extreme bumps that you just rolled over before but now the physics hits them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND813cWYJkE

[Tom Servo]

Probably too soon to ask, but any idea if it'll be Play Anywhere?

[Rare White Ape]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grgbhqczulU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9vRBpk5roU

I’ve seen and read a bunch of low quality reporting on this over the last couple of days.

The second video above has a really good section covering the force feedback, thanks for sharing. I hope the various wheel vendors are able to publish a set of suggested settings in time for release. I know that Fanatec usually does this for each of their wheels.

And in adding to the thorough discourse, here’s Oli Welsh, who can thankfully write coherently: https://www.polygon.com/23864410/forza-motorsport-preview-xbox-pc

Welsh is the former editor of Eurogamer, which published a Forza article yesterday that was complete nonsense and utterly lacking in useful detail. But that’s more about Eurogamer than anything. But I will check out the Digital Foundry video when I get more time. DF is one of the few remaining bits of Eurogamer worth paying attention to.

[Rare White Ape]

Probably too soon to ask, but any idea if it'll be Play Anywhere?

I’m not sure if play anywhere is a specified thing any more. All first party titles should be available across devices on your Microsoft account.

[Kchrpm]

I’ve seen and read a bunch of low quality reporting on this over the last couple of days.

Yes, they gave access to all kind of general gaming, or gaming adjacent, sites and streamers. It's a disservice to the market. One video's description seemed to start with "I'm an RPG player, can this CarPG keep this noob engaged?" Get the fuck outta here, I don't care what you think, and NO THE RPG ELEMENTS AREN'T A REAL THING AND SHOULD GO AWAY. Just because a game has XP and levels doesn't mean it's an RPG. The car leveling is going to be so fucking annoying.

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah, a parallel currency of sorts for each car that only allows you to spend money on upgrades for that one car. Not my cuppa tea. It’ll stifle people’s ability to grind out a bunch of cash and get creative with builds.

[Phil_SS]

Another killer for that as well, the levels are only for that specific car. So if you buy another copy of that car and it starts at zero levels.......like WTF! Unless they have saved loadouts, that's just dumb.

[Kchrpm]

More impressions with a wheel. Seems to be approximately Gran Turismo 7 levels with proper equipment and settings tweaks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RyRiYs36B4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LVMFIYteIY

As I looked for those two videos, which I've already watched, I found this one, which I'm about to watch despite finding the host annoying.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdi4N2mS2_A

[balki]

... Just because a game has XP and levels doesn't mean it's an RPG...
I thought we wanted a caRPG in the sense that we'd start with a Demio, grind a little, upgrade parts, grind, get a Miata, grind, ...

Getting thrown into a 911 GT2 RS or Ford GT right away sucks the fun out of the first half of the game.

nvm. they doubled down on the opening : Official Gameplay of the Initial Races (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtuBLc3cU-o)
Corvette E-Ray then the Cadillac V-Series.R before starting the game with a +$40k sports car.

other than that, it looks and sounds really good. :up:

[Kchrpm]

You don't get to keep those cars. They're like the bit in the beginning of a Metroid game where you have most of your powers and then lose them and have to regain them.

Some people do want a CarPG as you describe it (I don't), but I don't think you're going to get people that aren't interested in racing to all of a sudden care because they have to drive the same car for 5 hours to level it up just because they like RPGs and leveling up.

[Blerpa]

Some people do want a CarPG as you describe it (I don't), but I don't think you're going to get people that aren't interested in racing to all of a sudden care because they have to drive the same car for 5 hours to level it up just because they like RPGs and leveling up.

This.
I wouldn't mind the kind of ladder we had in Gran Turismo 1, Gran Turismo 2 and Gran Turismo 3... with more modern add-ons, bells and whistles.
Not owning cars and modifications but still having to apply them is a "no fish no meat" kind of solution.

Either do a sim take like in ACC, AC, AMS2 where you own all the cars at the beginning for online purposes and you can play a career from lower series up to the most prestigious or do a GT old school stuff.
Forza Horizon ways are always easily exploited and this new idea feels too artificial and bland to work, too.

[balki]

perhaps an in between option or two:
start with 50k credits and suggest the Type R, STi and Mustang GT but have the option to buy anything under those 50k credits.
or just have difficulty modes where there are various levels of things being unlocked, mods available, starting cars and credits. (with everything available for online as Blerpa mentioned)

I'm definitely against it being difficult just for the sake of it (seems to have become a trend in other genres).

[Blerpa]

I'm definitely against it being difficult just for the sake of it (seems to have become a trend in other genres).

Last thing we need is a soul-like car game. Dear lord.

[Rare White Ape]

I remember in GT3 you started humbly but it took FOREVER to earn enough money to get a proper fast car, and once you had one of those you could do higher paying races and the money flowed thick and fast.

I think players got annoyed with that so Forza has been extremely generous with its constant flow of rewards, but they’ve been finding a way to reel it in while also giving that sense of satisfaction, hence this walled off car-specific upgrade path.

I mean, they could achieve the same goal much more simply by just paying less credits per single player race.

[21Kid]

I don't see why they can't have different modes for different people. Like something in Madden. Have a player-focused career, like the caRPG, where you start with humble beginnings and grind your way up. And a mode with more free-flowing $$$ so you can drive/race whatever you want. It uses the same physics engine and whatnot. I can't imagine it would be that difficult. Not that I know anything about game design, but if Madden can do it. :lol:

[Blerpa]

I don't see why they can't have different modes for different people. Like something in Madden. Have a player-focused career, like the caRPG, where you start with humble beginnings and grind your way up. And a mode with more free-flowing $$$ so you can drive/race whatever you want. It uses the same physics engine and whatnot. I can't imagine it would be that difficult. Not that I know anything about game design, but if Madden can do it. :lol:

That's exactly what you can do in ACC (albeit Career mode is a bit lacklustre) and in Project Cars 2, for example.
Also you can do that in AC and AMS2 with mods.

I don't give a damn about offline racing in ACC so I basically only use the multiplayer part of it and everything is unlocked since the first boot, but there is... CHOICE.

[Kchrpm]

Pre-install is available. I looked up the cost and timing of the premium add-on bundle for Game Pass users, and the 5 days of early access for me would mostly be taken up by the weekend that I'll be at Indy for the SRO races.

[Kchrpm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGIT4ABa_Ak

[Kchrpm]

Oh shit, they're adding a Trans-Am car. Give me more!

[balki]

When does it actually become available?
Never done a digital launch. Is it a rolling launch at midnight of your local time ... a universal launch (PST) ... ?

[Kchrpm]

From a little research, it seems like it's a universal launch, but the time varies.

I actually have a vacation day planned for release date, assuming it would be playable at midnight or at least in the morning. I may have to cancel or move that.

[balki]

Also seeing universal launch for other releases but no consistent time.

xbox.com (https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/forza-motorsport-standard-edition/9plkvswr299f) has it as "Release date 10/9/2023"

[Tom Servo]

I know for Flight Sim, Microsoft did a rolling launch, it was available at midnight local time in each time zone. Explains why so many people suddenly became citizens of Kiribati right as the launch date approached.

[dodint]

I can wait.

[balki]

FM7 was the car game I played so I'm antsy (technically had GT:Sport, but the online was tedious and offline very lacking).

Thanks Tom, guess I'll be in the UK the night before.

[Rare White Ape]

I can wait.

Heh...

Starfield had a 00:00 GMT launch, simultaneous worldwide.

But if you're a sucker you can pay for the premium super ooper dooper edition and get five days early access and feel really cool.

[Tom Servo]

I've for some reason fallen for that every time with Forza Horizon, and every time it means you just get to be one of the beta testers who constantly get kicked off the servers.

[Rare White Ape]

Nice to see confirmation that we get an FOV slider for both internal and external views!


https://youtu.be/20PhO8IzVWc?si=QYGUNknsaRE0DU7a

What do I want out of this game?

I just want something good enough. Physics don’t have to be simulation-level. Graphics don’t have to be capable of setting fire to an RTX 4090. Just make it work well with everyone’s odd choices of sim racing peripherals and compliment the hardcore sim racing genre.

That way I remain interested enough to build wild hot rods and maybe even chill out with you guys on a track.

I’d also like some sort of consistent online racing with spec cars and pwn some n00bz every now and again.

[Kchrpm]

Yesterday I saw an image of the back of a GTP with its brake lights aglow at night, and I just thought about how I want to be on track with that. That's what I want from this, a way to feel connected to that experience without going down a financial rabbit hole.

[Kchrpm]

The complete 500+ initial car list is up:

https://forza.net/news/forza-motorsport-car-list

[dodint]

They got some real purdy BMWs in there.

[Rare White Ape]

Plenty of F1 and sportscars of different eras. But I feel the most recent LMDH and LMH lineup is sorely lacking. Just three variants of the same Cadillac?

[Kchrpm]

Since this morning they've sorted everything into their respective groups, which is nice because it lets us see how broad they are. The mixing of GT3s and GT4s is not a good sign, because of how they make speed when modded to have similar lap times, and the fact that GT3 and GT4 are both fun classes to drive in their own right, and they should be given a place to shine.

And I agree with RWA that I hope more current WEC/IMSA prototypes are added, but I'm guessing they just didn't get early enough access to any of them without the marketing partnership they entered into with GM. The Acura DPi will be added later this month, which is nice, but not current.

[Blerpa]

Way too many road cars.
This does not bode well... for me, at least.

EDIT: 409 road cars (track toys included, as they should) out of a list of 500.
This is Forza Horizon but on circuits.

Pretty lame.
This is "motorsport" as much as I, as a sim racer, am a proper race driver.

[dodint]

Considering the vast majority of people actually racing in real life do so in production-based vehicles I prefer it that way. There are plenty of games that allow you to pretend you're an F1 or NASCAR racer. There are only a few outlets that let you drive proper street cars. That was one of my biggest annoyances with iRacing, it didn't have many cars that were close to the ones I was actually driving on track in real life.

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah iRacing's focus is definitely on simulating current top professional motorsport categories and a few of the feeder series, whereas Forza and GT focus on a spread from everyday cars to the fastest of the fast, and gives you the ability to tune the heck out of them.

That's why, for me, these games compliment each other. I don't think I'll ever give up iRacing for anything else, so why not play all of the games and enjoy various aspects of them?

[dodint]

Yeah. I can see Blerpa's frustration in a way, the raw numbers (400/500) being street cars looks bad if you're here to pretend you're driving for IMSA. From a club racer perspective, it's just about perfect.

[Blerpa]

Dudes, top professional?
TCR, Clio Cup, Mazda Cup, Formula Vee, Formula Ford, Abarth series, Predators, Radicals, Legends, Pragas... I'm not talking about million dollars series, but bottom feeder ones, not sunday club racing.
To me street cars are not proper race cars.
This is just another Gran Turismo/Horizon... oh well, tough luck for me.
I will play it, just lost much enthusiasm for it.

[Kchrpm]

Gran Turismo and Horizon are very different games.

This is definitely going to be closer to Gran Turismo, as it always has been.

100 race cars, and many road cars that can get race car conversions of some sort through some combination of weight reduction, aero and wide body kits, and various racing parts, should end up being a decent simulation of most of the racing that happens at tracks around America all summer long.

I do wish they did a better job keeping up with modern SRO, IMSA, and WEC cars, though. And separate GT4 from GT3/GTE.

[dodint]

I always though Horizon was more akin to NFS when it started to go open world.

[Tom Servo]

Also, don't Forza and FH basically share the same assets and physics engine? I'm almost certain they use the same car models and that FH is the Motorsport physics engine only juiced to act a little more arcade-y. I'd expect the car list to be nearly identical other than FH having very few actual race cars that haven't been driven by Ken Block.

[Rare White Ape]

Yes Horizon and Motorsport are fundamentally the same under the hood.

Plus Forza Motorsport has always given us what it says on the tin: a Gran Turismo rival to help Microsoft sell Xboxes.

Mid-tier spec racing categories are generally found elsewhere.

[balki]

I'd buy this just based off of the early sport compact list. :up:

edit: has a fox-body 302 Mustang ever shown up in Forza or GT? Odd that Ford sold +2.5 million of 3rd gen stangs but they hardly show up in the digital world

[Jason]

No FiST makes me kind of sad, but I look forward to playing this for about 50 hours then forgetting it exists

[Rare White Ape]

Reviews!

One on video and one made out of words if you prefer this sort of thing:

https://www.eurogamer.net/forza-motorsport-review


https://youtu.be/2IvEDu1_KbU?si=HWtOdlDooWWqb6Fj

[Jason]

Why is qualifying for a race such a difficult concept in modern games?

[Tom Servo]

I did just run across an article saying the performance for the PC version is quite bad. Tester had it running on a pretty beefy system, including an RTX 4090, and even with ray tracing turned off and DLSS upscaling from 1080p to 4k, they struggled to get above 50fps with significant stutters throughout.

Hopefully that gets sorted sooner rather than later.

[Jason]

DigitalFoundry seems to indicate that performance is very stable on Xbox consoles

[XHawkeye]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycQvnFPbcyo

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, I'd hope it's solid on the consoles. I've played FH5 maybe 3-4 times on my XBox but usually use my PC because I don't have to choose between pretty/performance mode. I'm hoping there are just some glaring issues there that'll be sorted out by the time I get back from vacation.

The XBox has an AMD GPU, so I wonder if there's something about how it works with Nvidia cards.

[Blerpa]

Why is qualifying for a race such a difficult concept in modern games?

Because casual gamers do not like qualifying in a simcade.
Lame, I know.

[dodint]

I was playing the original Gran Turismo over the summer. I had completely forgotten they made you enter every qualifying session and exit out of it before each race. Not cool.

[Kchrpm]

Because casual gamers do not like qualifying in a simcade.
Lame, I know.

Yeah, I'm glad they decided to add qualifying to every online race and think that makes it doubly strange that you don't qualify in single player.

This is who I was watching yesterday as the game was released. He normally plays GT7, but apparently the servers aren't working for it this week or something. He was mostly doing Qualifier Series racing when I was watching, because that's where most of the other players were.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ0rFP0ONy4

He was streaming again this morning, but this time in the Forza GT class online. It looked like mostly good racing, especially with the tire strategy involved. Tire wear is exaggerated enough that none of the compounds were lasting a typical 15+ minute Forza GT race, and below 20% or so they were basically undrivable. His biggest complaint was that the proximity arrows are not nearly as useful as a radar or audio spotter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMoX3lSm0GY

Because it's a heavily advertised Game Pass game, I will expect the lobbies to fill up with people who aren't attempting to take things seriously. Hopefully the driver and safety rating sorting will figure it out quickly during the Qualifier Series.

[Blerpa]

Soft tyres do last 6 laps max, I've seen in people live streams. Lol, true qualifying tyres.

Another stupidity of qualifying: no qualifying in single player, but there are qualifying sessions in multiplayer, but not in private lobbies with your friends.
Microsoft and Turn 10/Playground Games hating fiercely league playing in the whole Forza series since forever (at least since after Forza Horizon 3).

[Tom Servo]

I think the thing that bugs me the most about the no qualifying thing is that then the default races are like 3 laps and you start in last. It basically teaches players to drive like lunatics and bash their way through the field to win, which they then unsurprisingly go on to do in online racing as well.

[Phil_SS]

I think the thing that bugs me the most about the no qualifying thing is that then the default races are like 3 laps and you start in last. It basically teaches players to drive like lunatics and bash their way through the field to win, which they then unsurprisingly go on to do in online racing as well.

The video I saw showed that you could start wherever you wanted to start, aka, you pick where you want to begin the race. Starting farther back just gives you more money.

[Kchrpm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f51vN1NOE8

Some good tips in here, including the fact that you can make your own qualifying sessions in private lobbies: make a race with no collisions, then set the next race to start with the grid order based on fastest lap from the previous race. And you can save and load lobby setups, so you don't need to build that out every time, just remember to load them each time.

[Rare White Ape]

Why not have collisions on and do proper qualifying? That would be cool.

[Kchrpm]

No collisions would just be so that you can get it done faster, without everyone needing to try and find a gap. You could really do it however you want, the key is just to have the next race starting positions based on the previous race's lap times.

[Blerpa]

That's a smart workaround, I must admit.
It would have been far easier and quicker to just have an option for qualifying in private lobbies, tho.
Absurd people have to go to such a lenght to fix a simple, and surely strategically chosen, user un-friendly decision by the developer.

[Rare White Ape]

FYI for non-early access suckers the game boots up now, some two hours before the countdown timer has ended.

I’m currently loading up getting yelled at by the in-game accessibility narration.

[Yobbo NZ]

Hopefully us Beta testers allow you to have a better game than what we've been having 🤣

[Kchrpm]

I made a quick virtual trip to New Zealand this morning and have been having a great time when I got to multiplayer. The single player is...not a place I want to spend time.

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah, the singleplayer is... meh. I might get into it later. I tried a few cars in singleplayer arcade mode. You can 'rent' any car you want (aside from DLC cars) for free, so that's much more enticing.

I will try multiplayer very shortly.

I'm on PC. Random observations so far:

It detected my Heusinkveld pedals and Fanatec wheel, so that's great. I was worried it wouldn't like odd combos but we good. It also runs in ultrawide ratio, so the two things I was most worried about are a non-issue. However all menus, cut scenes and - get this - replays are presented in 16:9 :random: but at least the gameplay is ultrawide.

Graphics are very very very okay at best. So much for the shiny ray-traced footage and gorgeous lighting and whatnot from the preview trailers.

Steering feel is... fine? It's not amazing, but it does feel good enough to get some enjoyment out of it. I will say it's much better than the dumpster fire that Forza 7 was.

It communicates understeer quite well. My career starter car is the Mustang, so it's a typically safe-understeery setup road car that also gets the tail out when provoked. It doesn't handle long fast corners very well and this is nicely felt in the steering. The physics respond well to a slight lift of the throttle to regain grip in the nose. Initial turn-in is very dull however. Here I'd like to feel the grip better, as this will help me adjust my entry and avoid washing off speed as the corner progresses.

The steering does not do high downforce cars like LMPs very well at all. There's no feeling of aero grip coming on in high speed bends, feels like the physics is relying on mechanical grip at high speed. Meanwhile if you're navigating a low speed section like the Bus Stop at Spa, the car feels absolutely atrocious. No good feel here. The car just ploughs until you get it straight and apply throttle. Feels fine in medium speed 2nd and 3rd gear stuff though.

One thing that feels very familiar is the way cars get loose mid-corner on part throttle. It feels just like Forza games of old did where the steering goes loose as you're in a not-slide-but-not-drift. I tried the Corvette C8-R at Indy Road and found myself in this state through the first few corners of the lap a few times. It's not good, as that car should have plenty of lateral grip, so maybe it's a physics thing rather than a FFB thing.

I used this guide (https://www.racedepartment.com/news/forza-motorsport-ffb-settings-guide.1401/) as a starting point and have made some tweaks to it. I'll keep working on it or trying other recommendations to see if it fixes the above complaints.

The FOV slider doesn't appear to do much at all. My preferred driving view is in the cockpit with the steering wheel visible and everything is super zoomed out. Cars on my peripheral are twice as long as they should be. Adjusting the slider seems to have no effect on this. I've been switching between the dashboard view and the bonnet cam depending on the car. This sucks because I am having a really hard time judging braking distances and steering angles. I feel very disconnected from the game as a result.

The AI suuuuucks. I did a race where a car right in front of me dropped an anchor just as we entered Eau Rouge on lap 1. I had to run wide to the left to avoid it and go off track, only to find a car stopped on the inside of the kerbing in the top of the hill. I found it using Braille at about 120 mph. On restarting the race I avoided the cars entering Eau Rouge but there were more just casually driving out of Radillion in 3rd gear, so this time I went off track to the right and crossed the pit exit lane. By this time I was in 2nd place!

Finally, I looked briefly at the multiplayer settings. Looks like we can set up multiclass races with rolling starts, and per-class starting positions and results! Let's simulate IMSA or WEC as much as we can! Unfortunately though, the class restrictions are either too liberal and match the classes that Turn 10 published, or too restrictive and allow only one specific car per class. I'd like to be able to choose 3 or 4 cars per class and have a GTP/GT3 race (allowing a third class for LMP2 would be nice as well, if possible) and not allow people to choose any LMP car or any R class car, as there are lots of cars from different eras or are plainly NOT racing cars.

[Kchrpm]

I've been having a great time in race cars, and trudging through road cars as needed to earn money. I sold the car that was gifted to me for playing Forza 7 to fund the purchase of a C7.R (and C7 Z06), and am excited to put a lot of time into it in multiplayer. I'm not yet fast or consistent, but I'm having fun.

I feel like the default wheel settings might have been based on the Logitech G920/G923 for two reasons: it's the wheel they first showed gameplay with, saying that it was the wheel owned by most XBox gamers that had a wheel, and I haven't had to change anything and it feels pretty great. It would also explain why people with stronger wheels were saying they immediately needed to turn things down. That probably should have been one of the first settings the game asked you about, an approximate maximum wheelbase strength, and then adjust a few settings accordingly.

Multiclass racing against the AI is going to be tough to get a good variety of cars, and as mentioned the AI is pretty crap around other cars. In multiplayer it will likely require trust in the individuals you're playing with.

My biggest annoyance so far is that it still doesn't handle timed races correctly. We will still have to do annoying bullshit for our online endurance racing.

[Rare White Ape]

A few more things

It doesn't seem to save some of my input settings on rebooting the game. Look right is still mapped to a wheel button, but look left isn't, and the view change button reverts back to handbrake. Plus it reverts to pedals that it thinks might be connected to my wheel base, when in reality the pedals are directiy connected to my PC. I have to fix this every time I start the game. There's nothing worse than starting a race and having to pause it to go into the options menu because you expect it to work first time every time.

And holy tyre wear, Batman! They fall off a cliff after 7 laps. I did one of the opening MP races in the Honda Civic touring car and it was me and the leader on mediums... we were both saving tyre until the last few laps. Good fight to the end though, I made a move on lap 5 and he passed me back. In the end I only lost by 0.1 seconds.

Later on I did a "GT3" race at Indy Road, in the Porsche 911 RSR. It was a rainy night race - wet driving rain in practice and damp sprinkling rain for the 11 lap race. I was on mediums because I think everyone else was and started dead last. Typical lap 1 shenanigans saw me up to 10th by lap 2. They all pitted on lap 6 so I kept cruising around in the top 3. On lap 8 I started to notice significant tyre wear. By lap 10 the guys who pitted were catching me and I was back in 5th before the end of that lap, when the game told me in big yellow letters to pit now. I ignored it expecting to only need to hold on for one more lap and found the grass three times on the final lap and finished 10th. It was like the tyres quickly turned to molasses in the final three laps.

Meanwhile those who pitted must have grabbed softs and even they were running off and making mistakes late in that second run. So... tyre wear could be improved somewhat. Outside of this driving behaviour was very good. Plenty of the drivers were level 60 or whatever (I still haven't found the multiplayer stats for driver and safety rating) and I was mixing it with them. I saw nothing that would make me too upset, and nothing that I wouldn't see in an iRacing lobby either. I suppose the kids were still in school and won't be polluting things until later in the day.

On the conclusion of that race my game stopped loading multiplayer race data in the menus so I went to do a test drive. After picking a car and track combo it then stopped loading anything at all so I closed the game and went back and played iRacing for an hour-or-so.

[Yobbo NZ]

Try my settings Mick, not sure if you'll like it, but it feels alright to me.
Fanatec settings...

SENS 720 degrees.
NDP 15%
NFR OFF
NIN OFF
INT 1
The rest 100.

Forza settings...

Vibration 34
Force Feedback 100
Self aligning 100
Mechanical trail 97
Pneumatic trail 94
Road feel 41
Load sensitivity 58
Wheel damping 8
Centre spring 18
Dynamic damper 12
Steering sensitivity 50
Steering linearity 50

[Yobbo NZ]

6 years development and built from the ground up and still full of bugs.
I've had one where I started a multiplayer race in some kind of trackside replay camera. Luckily I was at the back so didn't cause any chaos before I quit.
Multiple black screen crashes, huge frame rate drops - can do one race at 70fps and the next is at 20-25fps. Quit and restart and it's back to normal.
Seems PC optimisation isn't a strong point for T10.

[Kchrpm]

And holy tyre wear, Batman! They fall off a cliff after 7 laps.

Tire wear is accelerated for those online races so that the strategy becomes important. In a Forza GT multiplayer race mediums may only last for 10-12 minutes, but when I did a free play single player race in the same car, they wore 10% or less in that same amount of time. It's clear that they want tire strategy to be important for the online races, and I agree with that choice, but they probably need to change the fall off rate so that it starts earlier and more gradually rather than being so sudden once you hit like 30% remaining.

[Rare White Ape]

Me, the snobbish sim racing needgeek, would like it if race lengths were pushed out to 45 minutes as well *twirls mustache*

[Rare White Ape]

Try my settings Mick, not sure if you'll like it, but it feels alright to me.
Fanatec settings...

SENS 720 degrees.
NDP 15%
NFR OFF
NIN OFF
INT 1
The rest 100.

Forza settings...

Vibration 34
Force Feedback 100
Self aligning 100
Mechanical trail 97
Pneumatic trail 94
Road feel 41
Load sensitivity 58
Wheel damping 8
Centre spring 18
Dynamic damper 12
Steering sensitivity 50
Steering linearity 50

Cheers, I’ll try them tomorrow.

[Kchrpm]

Me, the snobbish sim racing needgeek, would like it if race lengths were pushed out to 45 minutes as well *twirls mustache*

I'm hoping that we get a nice long prototypes and GTs lobby at some point, like when they introduced GT enduros in Forza 7 that were ~30 minutes long. Failing that, the TORA organized big enduros should be fun.

[Blerpa]

Installed. Not impressed.
Graphics are worse than Forza Horizon 5 by a mile.
I did put everything up at Ultra, top RTX and DLSS Quality, unlocked framerate and no v-sync.
It was going around 72-78 fps... good enough, I'd say.

Then suddenly in a race with the new VW Golf it plummeted to 28-32 fps.

I went to the settings.
They were all fuxored and DLSS disappeared.
There was written AMD FSR 2.0 at its place, and deactivated even.

I could not get DLSS anymore, but I tried set FSR 2.0 and put again all the other values.
Still 28-32 fps.

5800X3D, 32GB DDR4 3600 CL16, 3080 Ti, game installed on a 2TB pci-e 4.0 NVMe, 3440x1440p 144Hz 21:9 monitor.
It struggles worse than MS Flight Simulator 2020, Cyberpunk 2077 and even Starfield.

Good thing I did not even try to set up my Simagic rig, it would have been an utter waste of time.

So far, nothing good, I'd say.
And physics with a pad feel worse than Forza Horizon 5.
They feel basically as rubbery as Forza Motorsport 7 but a bit more complex.

[Phil_SS]

I'm having fun. But that's because I haven't played a game like this since Forza 6. I did spend some time with ACC which I did enjoy but it is specialized.

I am playing this with a Series S and a 2k TV. So it looks good but I don't think it looks that much better than Forza 6, but since I am not playing on a 4K TV that probably makes sense. It does run smooth at this level.

The car leveling, as I figured, is annoying. I don't mind having to drive a car to gain parts but they do need to either increase the amount you get as you drive the car or reduce the levels required to gain access to parts. Right now we have to drive a car for 2.5-3 hrs to gain the necessary experience for all mods. As I sit here, working from home, I am having the game drive itself in a MKIV Supra around an oval to gain car EXP. Check that, it is at Level 40 now. So I have started the EXPing of a Legacy RS.

I do give them credit for the price of cars, the most expensive is 500k.

[Blerpa]

I'll have to wait a patch and some updates to enjoy it more.
How does it work that thing that you let a car drive itself? That's enthusing.

[balki]

I'm also on the XSS but on a 4k TV, colors/lighting looks flat on the track.

Overall a bit disappointing in the sense that FM7 felt like an expansion pack of FM6 from 2015 but nowhere the level of disappointment the GT:Sport was.
Still, quite happy with it (I mean, what else is there on the Xbox?).

The B-spec/Drivertar is pretty good but Forza thinks the controller 'shuts' off in like 10 minutes of inactivity (this is with a wired controller, too) so you can just leave it running (hmm, maybe if you rubberband the sticks together).

[Phil_SS]

How does it work that thing that you let a car drive itself? That's enthusing.

You can just set all the Driving Assists to "Fully Assisted/Assisted" and the car drives itself. And all I have to to do is set up my Xbox to not go idle for a decent amount of time and then make an input on my controller every 15 minutes. Thus I just grab the brake every 10-15 minutes for a second and it starts the timer over again.

Technically, I can gain more XP by driving the car during races but it's not that much of a difference and when I'm just sitting here/working from home, I might as well have it running laps.

[balki]

Rubber band/steady input doesn't work ... times-out after 10-15 minutes.

Are these car levels to inflate playtime? I assume GamePass's revenue sharing is based on % of hours played.
It's completely counter to being able to rent just about everything from the get-go.

[Phil_SS]

Rubber band/steady input doesn't work ... times-out after 10-15 minutes.

I don't provide steady input. I literally just grab the break trigger every 10-15 minutes. Works perfectly.

[Kchrpm]

I just tried the C7 Z06 for 5 laps at Spa, and it was fantastic! I'm really excited about the prospects with this game, as all of the cars that I've tried so far that I care about (C7 Z06, C7.R, and Cadillac GTP) have felt good to drive.

[Jason]

My early "review" as a filthy casual


Game feels pretty good, cars handle predictably
The single player progression is an interesting change. I do like that it's encouraging investing in specific vehicles rather than a "collect them all" approach. BUT, I have a variety of issues with how the car credit system is done. Not really sure what the overall solution is though.
Graphics look good, but I will say real time/ray tracing lighting does provide some jankiness that sometimes wouldn't show compared to baked in/artistically directed lighting. That said, having all lighting conditions/weather conditions available for every track is nice
Very much appreciate that they simplified and matured much of the UI compared to the previous game (and the Horizon series)



Some GT7 comparisons (I haven't played GT7 in a while, might have to revisit then come back and edit):


I think I prefer GT7's art direction in general. Materials seem more realistic in general, especially car paint. And I feel like the cars in general had more intricate/lifelike details
Forza's free play setup is miles and miles better. But that said, GT7 has a lot more race modes/variety. There's not even a "Motorsport" race in Forza from what I can see. But maybe it pops up after completing all the Builders Cup
I think I prefer Forza's single player progression system so far, as that roulette system was atrocious in GT7. And as much as I enjoy "grinding" to earn a car I really want, the pricing balance of payouts, the extreme prices, and the limited time availability left me feeling salty in GT7, especially combined with it pushing MTX as a way around it. Not to mention locking certain modifications behind the roulette system was one of the worst things they could have done.
I like the way cars feel more in Forza, they feel a bit more predictable. But that said, damn do I miss the GT7/PS5 force feedback triggers. Those are absolutely amazing for a controller driver.
I very very much liked the cafe books in GT7 as a 'history of motorsport' mode.



As usual, I wish I could combine what I like most from both series.

[Rare White Ape]

Exploring the physics a little deeper, yesterday when I did the wet online race I noticed that as long as you didn’t lock up, you could go pretty deep into a braking zone and be able to haul up the car on a dime in the last few dozen feet and get down to corner entry speed really quickly. That’s even with no ABS and dry tyres on a damp track.

And I really briefly mentioned the odd familiar feeling of a not-slide-not-drift where the car seems to flounder in the middle of a corner if you’re a bit careless. Well today I did a dry race in Forza GT at Kayalami and did it more often than I’d like. This is when I realised that I was trying to use trail braking to slide the rears on corner entry and ending up in this uncomfortable skidding state. No matter what I tried I could not get trail braking to work as desired.

In other news I figured out how to get the FOV sliders to work. There’s a separate toggle to turn the custom sliders on. I’ve no idea how I missed it but it doesn’t seem logical to allow you to adjust them while also having a separate global on/off setting, but there you go. I feel much better in the game now that I can see properly. Or close to properly, because the setting doesn’t go down far enough to match my screen size and position so it’s still a little bit zoomed out. Now I want them to give us up/down and angle controls to get rid of this feeling that I’m sitting on a booster seat.

Oh, and a virtual mirror in the cockpit because now the physical mirrors for most cars are completely off screen for me.

[Kchrpm]

In other news I figured out how to get the FOV sliders to work. There’s a separate toggle to turn the custom sliders on. I’ve no idea how I missed it but it doesn’t seem logical to allow you to adjust them while also having a separate global on/off setting, but there you go.

Oh sweet, and I also feel dumb for not figuring that out. I was stuck trying to decide between the driver view, where I couldn't see the C7.Rs rear view camera, and the cockpit view, where the steering wheel looks sweet but is maybe not necessary since I can already see mine. I don't really know what view I want, though, because being able to see out of the side of the window to the side mirror in zoomed out cockpit view is also interesting.

[Yobbo NZ]

Height adjustment would be lovely.
As the white ape said, some cars feel like you're in a booster seat.
Also agree it needs a virtual mirror. No idea why they couldn't include an option to turn on or off if required.

[Jason]

One of my longest complaints about racing games is a lack of side view cutouts as an option. My preference would be hood view, with side mirror views

That said, the arrow indicators are a pretty nice stopgap

[Phil_SS]

The first update reduced the Levels required to unlock all the parts for each vehicle by 50%. Thus all parts are unlocked at Level 25. Plus they adjusted what is unlocked at each level, including at Level 1.

[Blerpa]

Thus, they made the game half as boring?
Vast majority of comments on Steam is a call on fixing the gaming and eliminate the artificial grinding of single cars.

[Tom Servo]

Got a little bit of time to play with this now that I'm back from vacation. One thing that's weird: The animations on the drivers for podium celebrations are incredibly good, which makes it all the more jarring that they don't remove their helmets to celebrate. It's like it hit an uncanny valley where it looks so good that it makes it just feel bizarre that they're all standing around celebrating with their helmets on.

Otherwise, running into weird performance issues on the PC, but I guess that's not surprising. Sometimes it runs great at 60fps, and then on lap 3 suddenly it drops to 30fps or less even though there's no traffic around and you've already driven through this part twice. I guess I have to do some tweaking there. Unsurprisingly, runs pretty much how you'd expect on the XBox Series X.