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View Full Version : This is the thread where I complain about coming to understand the value of my relationships



thesameguy
January 6th, 2014, 03:49 PM
Credit Card: I spend tens of thousands of dollars with you annually. No, you don't make money off interest but you do make money off credit card fees. Assume that's 1%, which is low. Last year you made a grand off my activity. You suddenly have decided that buying things with PayPal or Amazon Payments counts as a "cash advance," and is subject to fees and special interest rates. I'm sure you told me, buried in some updated cardholder agreement. I didn't see that, and you nailed me for $25 in unexpected fees and interest in this billing cycle. I email you to see if you will reverse the fees, and I promise if I use either service again I'll pay the fees. No you say? Fine. Cancel my card. Hell, cancel both of them. You could have made another $1,000 in 2014. Now you'll make $25.

Car parts: I spend thousands of dollars with you annually. In 2013, it was $3700. Two weeks ago you sent me a pair of headlights, both the same brand but the headlights themselves were different OEs, with different brightness levels, and different beam patterns. I email you asking to swap one out so they're the same. You tell I got what I ordered, and that even if you sent me another headlight you couldn't guarantee which OE it would be. I suggest that if I have one of each and you send me a third, no matter what I'll end up with a matching pair, and then I can send back the oddball. You tell me to piss off, that's not how it works. Fine, I'll buy somewhere else. You could have sold me thousands of dollars in parts in 2014, but you're going to end our relationship over a $5.17 headlight.

Restaurant: I eat out a fair amount - not as often as some, but at least several times a month. I decided to try you out because I like trying new things. You're prompt getting my party's order in, but 40 minutes later we still don't have food. I call the server over to see what's going on and she goes off to investigate. Seconds later, the owner is at my table buying everyone a beer for the inconvenience. I don't even know you, but already our relationship is worth seven beers. I suspect we're gonna be very good friends.

Random
January 6th, 2014, 03:56 PM
I guess I should increase the maximum character limit for thread titles...ha.

Alan P
January 6th, 2014, 04:11 PM
How to do business wrong. And then how to do it right.

neanderthal
January 6th, 2014, 07:53 PM
A certain establishment's owner once gave me a six pack of a certain brand of libations, to go, unopened, because a buddy of mine wanted to give them to his future father in law when he was going up there to negotiate the dowry.

That business has since profited mightily from my patronage as I not only go there regularly, but I take people there, and recommend the place when out of towners come to LA.


Good business practises generally get rewarded.

Rare White Ape
January 8th, 2014, 02:32 AM
A friend of mine had his new Harley stolen from work.

The overbearing investigator that the insurance company sent caused him some worry and concern. And not getting any updates from said insurance company, who promises in writing to return any queries within a few days, caused even more concern and brow furrowing. After two months there was still no sign of a payout.

To Facebook!

One sour comment left on their page by my mate turned into an instant turnaround, and a cheque was posted to him within days. Result!

But the sour taste left in his mouth could not be dealt with. Two $1200/yr premiums for two bikes for that insurance company turned into two $500 premiums for another insurance company. Despite the much lower price, the level of cover is the same, and it is a reputable company to deal with to boot.

I'm considering the same move.

thesameguy
January 8th, 2014, 02:37 PM
I don't know about abroad, but our insurance companies are terrible. I don't know what causes an insurer to turn anti-insured, but it happens with surprising frequency. I'm sure ya'll recall my interaction with my insurer where they went on the offensive, asking me to defend my reasons for owning more than a single Camry, like every other American. Sadly, I still haven't dumped them... but OTOH they haven't come back at me with such nonsense. I can't wait to tell them I need to remove the Celica from my policy three months after adding it. :D

thesameguy
January 21st, 2014, 03:04 PM
I used up the points I had stored on the credit card started this whole thread, and over the weekend called the issuer told them to kill both of my cards. "I'm very sorry to hear that sir, is there anything I can do to earn your business back?" Explained the situation - tired of surprised fees, customer service told me to piss off, etc. "That is terrible, sir, and it certainly doesn't sound like our email support team gave you the respect you deserved. If I can reverse those fees, would that be sufficient for you to leave your accounts open?" I want the answer to be no, but year, I'll bite. Yes, that would be fine. But I'd appreciate you noting the account and indicating the next time you see fit to hit me with bogus fees, I will be calling right back to cancel my cards again.

But, really, that's never going to be a problem, because the chances of me ever using those cards again is about nil. They'll just rot in my desk. But at least I got my $25 back! :D

thesameguy
January 21st, 2014, 05:20 PM
I'll throw this in the pot:

Dear Enterprise:

I just got returned home after returning what is probably the worst rental experience of my life, and I thought someone might care.

The experience started this morning, where I waited in line for close to 30 minutes while a rep helped the person in front of me. The customer seemed to be having a rough day so I didn't say anything, but suffice to say standing in a line while employees are standing out on the lot eating their breakfast sucks.

It did not improve once I received the car. The outside was dirty but undamaged, so I signed the papers and left. About a mile down the road I realized the passenger seat was stained with several different products, including a giant red splotch of who knows what. Upon further inspection, it turned out ALL the seats were stained - front and rear - and there was some type of goop in the center console. Someone had made an attempt at cleaning it, but what was left was quite obvious. No joke, it looked like bird crap.

About that time the cabin started heating up, at which time a smell I can only describe as old pizza filled the cabin. I almost went looking for it, but based on other "materials" in the cabin I decided to leave well enough alone. I turned off the heat and rolled down the windows.

I will only mention that my lunch date did not go as planned, as the person I was supposed to be driving wouldn't sit in the car for fear of getting whatever the red stuff was on her pants. I couldn't blame her. We had a coworker bring us back Chinese. I was slightly relieved, as if I'd subsequently had to explain why we couldn't turn the heat on or roll up the windows I probably would have died.

When I brought the car back at 5pm, I stood in line (another line of one person) for 20 minutes while two guys in the office talked about football. I don't know what peoples' jobs there are, but seriously, if you look like an employee and you're not doing work, you should probably confine your idle activities to a place customers can't see.

I don't know what the score is with this particular location - I rarely rent cars from anywhere besides airports - but if the service experience and vehicle quality is common to "neighborhood" locations, you guys might really want to think about how you're running your shop. I, for one, was thoroughly disgusted at this experience and wish I'd spent my $50 at the Avis a mile away. It would have been a much less convenient pick up, but at least I wouldn't have had to spend the day in a dirty, Korean swamp.

Yw-slayer
January 21st, 2014, 09:45 PM
LOL

Godson
January 22nd, 2014, 12:50 PM
A+ would read again!

Kchrpm
January 23rd, 2014, 07:59 AM
Send that in an email to a PR/customer service executive, find the CEOs email as well if you can.

thesameguy
January 23rd, 2014, 10:09 AM
I did. :) That's actually a cut & paste of what I sent to their corporate customer service. I got a call from the manager at the branch I rented from yesterday - I guess news travels fast. I haven't called him back. I'm not sure what I want, or what I expect them to do so I haven't engaged in the conversation. I'm sure they'll apologize, and probably offer a free upgrade on some future rental. Neither of those things are worth having a conversation about... I pretty much never rent from Enterprise - the only reason I did this time is because they were less than a half mile from where I dropped the XJR off to have it's windshield replaced. I dunno. I'll mull it over some more, maybe call them back when I have nothing better to do.

Kchrpm
January 23rd, 2014, 10:13 AM
:up:

Dicknose
January 23rd, 2014, 07:17 PM
Credit Card: I spend tens of thousands of dollars with you annually. No, you don't make money off interest but you do make money off credit card fees.
Assume that's 1%, which is low. Last year you made a grand off my activity.

I think your maths is off by a digit.
If you spend 10k @ 1% thats $100
Not $1,000

Maybe you are spending 100k on your card.
Or maybe this explains why they dont care so much.

Having said that, it is fun to tell a bank where to go.
I went into my branch (when we still have them) and asked about a fee that had just brought in. It was something like $5 a month.
I had an account that had a few hundred dollars. Was mostly handy because it had been linked to some payments.
Anyway - asked if they could wave the fee.
Told no by the teller.
Are you sure, maybe check with the manager because if you cant Ill close my account.
No problem Ill help you close it.
I then pointed out I had 2 accounts and would close them both. The other account had something like 40k in it.
The teller noticed this and um-ed and got the manager. Manager said that he couldnt wave the fee. So I said - close both accounts.
The teller said "cash or cheque, but it will be a $5 fee for the cheque". No problem cash would be fine for both!
This stumped the teller as I dont think they had that much cash. But the manager could wave the cheque fee and I walked out with a few notes from my small account and a large cheque for the other account.

Godson
January 23rd, 2014, 07:18 PM
Lol!!!!!

thesameguy
January 23rd, 2014, 07:23 PM
I spent $96,000 on the card last year - hence "tens of thousands of dollars." ;) I'm *sure* they're pocketing ~3% or more of that, although it probably depends on the merchant.

I think a large number of consumers just take it - I've run into a lot of situations lately where people I know shrug and say "it's just not worth fighting." That's why big companies act the way they do - millions of people all refusing to fight for the dollar they are owed is big money to these assholes. That's why I've been making a point of fighting. I'm done taking it.

21Kid
January 24th, 2014, 08:19 AM
I saw a study that showed that customer satisfaction only costs corporations profit. The top profit-making companies had the worst satisfaction scores... and people still use them. So, why should they bother?

Kchrpm
January 24th, 2014, 08:39 AM
There are different variables that go in to that, though, as some companies are very profitable because they offer a product/service that is difficult to compete with or replace (Verizon's broad network coverage, for instance) so people put up with frustrations, or they offer things at such a low price that they overlook other things.

Looking for the article, I assume this is it: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-12-17/proof-that-it-pays-to-be-americas-most-hated-companies

Time Warner Cable is the biggest example, but they have a near monopoly in most areas. I have Time Warner Cable, I'm not really happy with them, but the only other services I can choose from don't have the same capabilities.

That doesn't mean that happy customers aren't profitable, it means that monopolistic qualities *are*.

Typically if your customers don't like you AND remain being your customer, it's because they don't have any other options. Once there are other comparable options, they stop being your customers and your profits go down.

By comparison, banks/airlines/dry cleaners/big box stores/etc have tons of competition all around them, so they damn well better keep you happy because it's a short drive somewhere else. They have no monopolistic qualities, so their profits don't benefit.

Crazed_Insanity
January 24th, 2014, 08:56 AM
Wife recently suffered a bite wound from our cat because our kitty was suffering from some sort of nerve damage or something. Poor cat was in lot of pain after surgery... and accidentally bit my wife. So we went to the ER of our local hospital wee hours in the morning. We were told that our insurance has a co-pay of $75, so we figured we can afford that. (We're really running low on our cash reserves in our bank account because Obamacare doesn't really cover medical expenses for pets!)

Anyway, nobody was there in the ER. Yet, we had to wait around for 30 min. Wife informed the nurse what kind of antibiotics she's allergic to, yet the doctor never bother looking at my wife's charts and decided to administer the exact kind of antibiotics that could kill my wife. Luckily wife double checked and ask the Dr... tragedy was avoided.

Weeks later, hospital billed us for $375. (Because we also have a $300 annual deductible we need to pay.) According to the statements, hospital also billed the insurance $1400. That doctor also charged nearly $400 to the insurance company.

Wow. Poor quality of service that nearly killed my wife, they have to nerve to charge all that?

Wife wrote a letter to complain to the hospital. No response.
I called the insurance company to complain about this..., there's nothing they can do.

Of course theres's no guarantee Obamacare's gonna fix anything either, but no wonder our medical expenses are out of control.

We had a pretty good experience with the same hospital when we had our daughter there, but this ER experience really sucked.

Kchrpm
January 24th, 2014, 09:21 AM
Emergency room = $$$. I have several bills from several visits in the last 13 months to confirm, and insurance will only cover so much of it. They suggest you go to an urgent care center instead.

Crazed_Insanity
January 24th, 2014, 09:53 AM
I guess I wouldn't mind paying $375 to get peace of mind for my wife during wee hrs of early morning...

Still I don't understand why the hospital think they're entitled to the additional $1400 from the insurance company for simply administering antibiotics and nothing else.

Not only that, the stupid careless doctor who almost killed my wife charged the insurance company additional $400!

I just don't feel like we've received the kind of care that's billed for more than $2k!

Yeah, I suppose that hospital doesn't have any monopoly, we could go to other ERs, but I suppose cost would be the same or similar. Yeah, need to find out more about urgent care centers around my neighborhood. Definitely not going into ERs for non-life threatening injuries again. Even for vet ER visits, I think probably only the lousy doctors got stuck working on those lousy shifts? Anyway, sorry for hijacking TSG's thread. Let me return the spot light back to him... ;)

Kchrpm
January 24th, 2014, 10:13 AM
I have urgent care centers near me, closer than the hospital, but when I was having issues it would always happen in the middle of the night and I couldn't wait for the urgent care centers to open. If it's the middle of the night, you're still kind of stuck with the ER, the waiting, the huge payments, etc.

thesameguy
January 24th, 2014, 10:25 AM
We have a few urgent care centers in Sacramento that are 24hr or close to. I've been twice in my life (three times to a hospital ER), and I am still uneasy about seeking medical care in a strip mall. It just doesn't feel right. Both times I've been it was following a call to my insurance to check my coverage and having them suggest urgent care instead of ER. Hearing that didn't make me happy... as if I expected any call to any insurance to make me happy. :| Time Warner is a shitty company (as is "our" Comcast) but at least they don't actively work against their own customers. Insurance companies can't even claim that.

Drachen596
January 24th, 2014, 10:35 AM
never go to the ER. unless you are literally dying you don't go to the ER.
i'll go to RediMed here if i need to see a doctor on short notice. its a walk-in place and not for urgent omg gonna die care but they've done stitches and antibiotics for me. oh, and they're cheaper than the hospital itself though they are associated with one of the major hospitals here.

incidentally what did they do at the hospital you couldn't have done at home?


a year or so ago my credit card lowered my limit and informed me via snail mail. they lowered the limit two weeks before i got the letter. i knew it had happened because i check my accounts online. i'd been two days late on a single payment at this point in the nearly 3 years i'd had the card. so i messaged them via the banks online site asking why this happened and how they thought it was right to do so before i got a notification. my limit got raised past where it had been, which then saved my butt when i had an issue with my car.

Godson
January 24th, 2014, 11:11 AM
A bad doctor is always a bad doctor.

21Kid
January 24th, 2014, 12:19 PM
There are different variables that go in to that, though, as some companies are very profitable because they offer a product/service that is difficult to compete with or replace (Verizon's broad network coverage, for instance) so people put up with frustrations, or they offer things at such a low price that they overlook other things.

Looking for the article, I assume this is it: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-12-17/proof-that-it-pays-to-be-americas-most-hated-companiesTime Warner Cable is the biggest example, but they have a near monopoly in most areas. I have Time Warner Cable, I'm not really happy with them, but the only other services I can choose from don't have the same capabilities.

That doesn't mean that happy customers aren't profitable, it means that monopolistic qualities *are*.

Typically if your customers don't like you AND remain being your customer, it's because they don't have any other options. Once there are other comparable options, they stop being your customers and your profits go down.

By comparison, banks/airlines/dry cleaners/big box stores/etc have tons of competition all around them, so they damn well better keep you happy because it's a short drive somewhere else. They have no monopolistic qualities, so their profits don't benefit.

Yes, that's the article. I bow to your search skillz, as I couldn't find it.

Your examples are exactly what I am talking about though. There are alternatives to both of those options. Verizon's service can't be THAT much better than Sprint, AT&T, or any of the other major brand in your area, can it? I actually switched away from them because their service was so bad in my area and they refused to do anything about it.
Same with TWC. I hated them when I had them. So, I switched to AT&T Uverse and loved it. I also was thinking of trying out Direct TV and Dish at the time.

Now I have DirectTV and my entire condo is set up through them as a warehouse carrier, so I truly don't have any other options. No one is going to wire up a condo for 1 customer.

To me it seems that unless you're in the situation where it is specifically chosen for you, as mine is at the condo. You do have other options if you are unhappy. I guess it depends on what you are more unhappy with.

TheBenior
January 24th, 2014, 03:07 PM
I guess I wouldn't mind paying $375 to get peace of mind for my wife during wee hrs of early morning...

Still I don't understand why the hospital think they're entitled to the additional $1400 from the insurance company for simply administering antibiotics and nothing else.

Not only that, the stupid careless doctor who almost killed my wife charged the insurance company additional $400!

I just don't feel like we've received the kind of care that's billed for more than $2k!

Yeah, I suppose that hospital doesn't have any monopoly, we could go to other ERs, but I suppose cost would be the same or similar. Yeah, need to find out more about urgent care centers around my neighborhood. Definitely not going into ERs for non-life threatening injuries again. Even for vet ER visits, I think probably only the lousy doctors got stuck working on those lousy shifts? Anyway, sorry for hijacking TSG's thread. Let me return the spot light back to him... ;)
Privately held (including many 'non-profit') hospitals, thanks to a lack of pricing transparency and a captive customer, charge what they feel they can get away with. That's pretty much it.

The lack of pricing transparency is something they try to perpetuate. They know that most people going to an ER probably aren't going to up and go to the next hospital and start their wait all over again when they see a price they don't like, but they won't post them anywhere prominent just to stack the deck in their favor anyway. I go to various hospitals for reports all the time, and the only hospital I've seen with a price list for common procedures is our County hospital.

Doctors can get away with being crappy, because the vast majority of the time, they're not at risk of being sued for any particular incident, even when their negligence harms or kills a patient.

Alan P
January 24th, 2014, 06:18 PM
Earlier this week I was admitted to hospital with a Kidney Stone, although at the time I just knew I was in a LOT of pain. I am so pleased with our 'socialist' (to some) National Health Service. I got seen within 30 minutes of arriving (and it was pretty busy too) promptly puked up the oral painkillers they tried to give me and took me to get some Morphine (amazing stuff!) and kept me overnight. I got a CT scan next day and was home within 24 hours of actually going into the hospital. I shudder to think how much something like that would have set me back in the US, even if I did have health insurance! The nurses and doctors were attentive and professional but also friendly and everyone seemed to care. I know you might say 'so they should!' but the instance above with the Doc who nearly killed someone through what was really professional negligence and laziness says to me that I don't mind our NHS. In fact I've had so many dealings with all sorts of different doctors and nurses and other Healthcare professionals I won't have a bad word said about it. The NHS in the UK is great.

Kchrpm
January 25th, 2014, 03:08 AM
Alan - based on my experiences with gall stones, it probably would have cost you about $2000.

Kid - Verizon's coverage is best in remote areas, and people mostly just grumble about their prices, which are worse than the competition but not grossly so. They're helped by the fact that the second best coverage is probably by AT&T who in most ways is quite similar. Fortunately the days of Verizon nerfing phones is over.

UVerse isn't an option for me, and dish companies weren't at first because of a large community tree. After watching satellite TV go out during bad weather, though, I personally took them off the list. Even if I did go with a dish, DSL would be my only other Internet choice and they aren't competitive on speed AFAIK.

My power company has to offer the ability for other companies to broker the sale of the power they deliver over the lines, which means price competition, and their rates went down as a result. I wish the same legislation was there for cable companies, similar to MVNOs I guess.

TheBenior
January 25th, 2014, 03:48 AM
UVerse isn't an option for me, and dish companies weren't at first because of a large community tree. After watching satellite TV go out during bad weather, though, I personally took them off the list. Even if I did go with a dish, DSL would be my only other Internet choice and they aren't competitive on speed AFAIK
I've been pretty satisfied with DirecTV during the time I've had it, though it has had issues in really heavily overcast weather, which seems to cause more issues than actual rain.

My Internet options are Comcast cable which offers reasonable speeds at high prices, or AT&T 1.5 Mbps DSL that really tops out at 1.2 Mbps. You've seen the density of my neighborhood, which is why I don't believe the low population density excuse for crappy Internet speeds in the US.

Alan P
January 25th, 2014, 06:54 AM
Although I have no trees in my garden I've never lost signal on my satellite TV service except in a blizzard. If you lose signal then chances are the dish alignment isn't quite right.

Kchrpm
January 25th, 2014, 07:01 AM
I see it happen too much when I'm at different sports bars. I was at a Dave & Busters watching a Bengals game with a friend and ended up having to yell out the play by play for the final drive as I read it from my phone because the rain knocked out their whole setup.

JoshInKC
January 25th, 2014, 05:50 PM
Although I have no trees in my garden I've never lost signal on my satellite TV service except in a blizzard. If you lose signal then chances are the dish alignment isn't quite right.

Sometimes geography just works against you. I was told by a dish installer that they wouldn't even bother trying at my house unless I wanted a 15' pole with the dish at the top on my roof. But then I live in the north side of a fairly steep and heavily wooded hill with very tall trees between me and good satellite reception. So I had absolutely no choice beyond TW until google showed up.

Alan P
January 26th, 2014, 08:14 AM
We do have some occasions when we can't install a dish and the customer has no choice but to have their account cancelled. Trees, hills, cliffs on the coast, buildings in some cities too.

21Kid
January 27th, 2014, 09:03 AM
Even though I despise having a dish, I've rarely lost signal. Besides it being just a little bit choppy during storms. I lost signal with TWC more often.

I also think there are major differences in cell phone prices. I pay $105/month for 3 cell phone plans that each have unlimited minutes and 5gb of 4g lte speed on two of them and 2 gb of 3G for the 3rd phone. I know people that pay more than that for 1 single plan.

I completely agree that something should be done about the dominance of one major cable carrier in a general location though.

speedpimp
January 27th, 2014, 05:25 PM
We were like deer caught in the headlights of each other's mistrust.

thesameguy
May 8th, 2014, 07:39 PM
Not a complaint:

Down in SoCal saw that Microcenter's price on an i5-4670k was $189, which is the lowest price in the universe by about $40. Unfortunately, it's in-store only. Sad face. My main computer being the only remaining LGA1155 computer in the house has been getting me down, and with the pre-RV-purchase financial clench now over I resolved to do something about that. On a lark, walked into Staples on the way home from work today with a print out from Microcenter's website and said, "You have a price guarantee, can you match this?" Without hesitation, the cashier ordered an i5-4670k at Microcenter's price, and then took another $15 off for fun. I gotta wait 4-5 business days for it to show up, but that's hardly worth worrying about. $170 i5 FTW. Hasta la vista, 1155.

Yw-slayer
May 9th, 2014, 02:11 AM
That is VERY NAAIICCCE

Alan P
May 9th, 2014, 06:20 PM
Bargain! That's a £160+ CPU for a shade over £100!!