The thrust of curiosity that leads men to try to go where no one has gone before. (The Space thread)

[FaultyMario]

I looked and I didn't find a space thread. So here it is. Please feel free to seam this thread it into the old one if one exists.

Off the top of my head, this week we had NASA's day of remembrance linky (http://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/DOR2014/index.html) and RedBull/GoPro released more footage of Baumgartner (not quite in) space antics. linky (http://youtu.be/dYw4meRWGd4)

[FaultyMario]

And try to not read this (http://www.fas.org/spp/guide/usa/intro1958.html) in Mr. Shatner's voice.

[Godson]

:up:

[Reverend Jim]

Aww I was hoping this was the buttsex thread :(

[FaultyMario]

http://gtxforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=235&stc=1&d=1391628884

Buttsecks is played out!

[overpowered]

I know I shouldn't but....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U2PIaRp27Q

[FaultyMario]

http://www.sci-news.com/astronomy/science-hd162826-second-sun-01919.html



Dr Ramirez’s team has ruled out any massive planets orbiting close to the star.

“It’s unlikely that a Jupiter analog orbits the star,” Dr Ramirez said.

However, he and his colleagues do not rule out the presence of smaller terrestrial planets.

“The finding of a single solar sibling is intriguing, but the project has a larger purpose: to create a road map for how to identify solar siblings, in preparation for the flood of data expected soon from surveys such as ESA’s Gaia.”

Gaia will provide accurate distances and proper motions for a billion stars, allowing scientists to search for solar siblings all the way to the center of our Milky Way Galaxy.

“The number of stars that we can study will increase by a factor of 10,000,” Dr Ramirez said.

“Don’t invest a lot of time in analyzing every detail in every star. You can concentrate on certain key chemical elements that are going to be very useful. These elements are ones that vary greatly among stars, which otherwise have very similar chemical compositions. These highly variable chemical elements are largely dependent on where in the Galaxy the star formed.”

[LHutton]

http://news.yahoo.com/hypervelocity-star-may-reveal-clues-dark-matter-milky-110934597.html


The discovery of a super-fast star streaking away from the Milky Way may give astronomers a new glimpse at some of our home galaxy's most mysterious details, from its enormous central black hole to the invisible "halo" of dark matter at its far outer reaches.

The so-called "hypervelocity" star is traveling at 1.4 million mph (2.3 million km/h) relative to our solar system, about three times faster than a typical star, a new study reports. The star lies 42,400 light-years from Earth, above the disk of the Milky Way, and is cruising toward the halo of dark matter that surrounds the galaxy.

[GB]

Download Chris Hadfield's "Space Oddity" while you can. His one year copyright license ends TONIGHT, and he will remove it from the internet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaOC9danxNo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaOC9danxNo)

[Rob]

He might remove his initial upload, but surely everybody knows that you can't really entirely remove something from the internet.

[Sad, little man]

Funny you should say that given your location. ;)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/13/eu-google-dataprotection-idUSL6N0NZ23Q20140513

[Yw-slayer]

Without having read the decision itself, my understanding of the articles is that the information can be removed from Google's servers.

[Rob]

Funny you should say that given your location. ;)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/13/eu-google-dataprotection-idUSL6N0NZ23Q20140513

"People can ask google"

I can ask women to suck my penis but there's no guarantee it'll happen.

[LHutton]

2 neutron stars collide - NASA video

http://www.space.com/25854-neutron-stars-tear-each-other-to-shreds-black-hole-ensues-visualization.html

[Godson]

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/nasa-reveals-new-impossible-engine-can-change-space-t-1614549987?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_faceboo k&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


Hmmm.

[overpowered]

Thread title fail. It took me a while to remember that this was the space thread.

http://phys.org/news/2014-09-black-holes.html

[Godson]

So the movie event horizon never happened?


Works for me.

[Leon]

paging Rob ... what with this being rather relevant to his job :)

[LHutton]

Thread title fail. It took me a while to remember that this was the space thread.

http://phys.org/news/2014-09-black-holes.html
I'm not too convinced yet. What explains away the observed gravitational phenomena in terms of large high speed stars orbiting a point and the bending of light?

[Dicknose]

She hasn't shown black holes can't form, just that our description of the formation process is incorrect.

Hasn't explained away evidence for black holes.
Or that they could form from other processes.
Or most likely, the current idea of collapse of stars of a certain size is right, but the process is different to our current model.

[overpowered]

Michael Collins, via Buzz Aldrin

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10733807_10152787096144581_6474534665140047252_o.j pg

[tigeraid]

:up:

[Sad, little man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ0SgAU9LXI

http://sadtrombone.com/?play=true

[Crazed_Insanity]

Okay, rocket failure can be sad, but why is the guy crying over an unmanned rocket exploding? Or perhaps he's one of the scientists who prep the experiments that are about to be sent to the space station... now years of research down the drain? Anyway, just find the reaction of the crowd very entertaining.

[MR2 Fan]

VirginGalactic's SpaceShipTwo crashed today, 1 person killed, another one injured :(

http://news.discovery.com/space/private-spaceflight/virgin-galactics-spaceshiptwo-suffers-in-flight-anomaly-141031.htm

[Crazed_Insanity]

Sad week for private rockets. Hope these things won't come in 3's.

[G'day Mate]

So tomorrow something lands on a comet somewhere

http://www.iflscience.com/space/rosetta-s-philae-prepares-land-comet-67pchuryumov-gerasimenko

[Random]

My seven-year-old is over the moon about it.

[Godson]

Now that is fucking cool

[Leon]

this is a super amazingly cool thing

[Random]

The lander made it down safely. The mission coontrollers don't think the harpoons actually fired, so they are apparently going to fiddle with that to make sure the lander is actually firmly (ish) attached to the comet.

Image from about 3km from the surface: http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/files/2014/11/CIVAROLIS_FLD_SC_20141112.png

ESA has some pictures up on Flickr from the 10km-distance orbits as well: https://www.flickr.com/photos/europeanspaceagency/sets/72157638315605535/

I LOVE that you can see stars in the background of some shots--definitely brings out the "hey, we're way out there" feeling. :)

[GB]

This is a cool graphic. Also give an idea of how far that thing successfully flew to get there.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/europeanspaceagency/15369747957/in/set-72157638315605535/

Hooray for mathematics! :popcorn:

[tigeraid]

Pretty big achievement, I think.

And meanwhile NASA sits around twiddling it's strapped-for-cash thumbs. :smh:

[Godson]

I find it ironic a Canadian is making that comment.

[Rare White Ape]

NASA has plenty going on.

They've got New Horizons on track for a Pluto flyby next July, and that will be as, if not more valuable than one Voyager pass of a planet was 20 years ago.

And there's also Curiosity on Mars, and the Opportunity rover is still going after 10+ years. MAVEN recently entered Mars orbit and its measuring that planets atmosphere in an attempt to understand its wet history and why it isn't so wet now.

Orbiting Saturn, Cassini has beamed back untold amounts of images of the most beautiful place in the solar system. A few weeks ago it sent back images that suggest that moon Titan may have tides or seasons in its liquid methane oceans.

MESSENGER orbits Mercury and tells us a lot about the early solar system.

SDO and STEREO all observe the sun and have taught us more than we ever knew about solar dynamics, plus they send back a lot of pretty images.

And next month is the first orbital test flight of Orion, which is the next thing to send humans into space.

In the near future, NASA has the JWST which will replace Hubble and look at the distant universe in the infra-red better than we have ever been able to. They are also planning an asteroid capture and return mission, they're having a look at drilling into Europa's underground ocean, putting a boat on Titan and sending humans into deep space with Orion.

There's probably more that I've forgotten, but that's just the start.

[Godson]

Timeframe on that stuff?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Anyway, those Photos are so cool! I wonder if those are black/ white photos or actually in color. Probably in color, right?

[Rare White Ape]

Timeframe on that stuff?

Orion test launch next month. Manned launch within a few years. JWST under construction now, set to launch in 2018 (already delayed by 5 years). Asteroid capture 10-15 years out, Europa and Titan exploration more than 20 years away (my own best guess) and human return to the moon probably 10 years, Mars in 20 and beyond in 30 years, if it happens in the current spacecraft cycle. Remember the Shuttles were over 30 years old at retirement.

Imagine what NASA could do with double the budget.

[JoshInKC]

In the near future, NASA has the JWST which will replace Hubble and look at the distant universe in the infra-red better than we have ever been able to. They are also planning an asteroid capture and return mission, they're having a look at drilling into Europa's underground ocean, putting a boat on Titan and sending humans into deep space with Orion.


ALL THESE WORLDS
ARE YOURS EXCEPT
EUROPA
ATTEMPT NO
LANDING THERE

[LHutton]

Pretty big achievement, I think.

And meanwhile NASA sits around twiddling it's strapped-for-cash thumbs. :smh:
Built in Stevenage, UK.:)

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2014-08-06/rosetta-enters-orbit-with-a-little-help-from-stevenage/
https://www.gov.uk/government/case-studies/rosetta

[tigeraid]

I find it ironic a Canadian is making that comment.

Except we actually ARE strapped enough for cash to not be able to afford a large space program, for valid economic reasons. Not spending NASA's budget per day killing brown people.

[Godson]

*sigh*

[Crazed_Insanity]

Except we actually ARE strapped enough for cash to not be able to afford a large space program, for valid economic reasons. Not spending NASA's budget per day killing brown people.

Dude, it's not like if our government's not killing brown people, we'd be able to see the money being used in NASA or else where. We don't have the 'cash', we simply borrowed the 'credit' from American's future to finance the wars.

Anyway, if you have something to vent, perhaps you can do so in the political thread. Really no need to take the opportunity to bad mouth Americans. Remember, NSA is listening and our drones can kill you instantly. I'd be careful if I were you.

[MR2 Fan]

Dude, it's not like if our government's not killing brown people, we'd be able to see the money being used in NASA or else where. We don't have the 'cash', we simply borrowed the 'credit' from American's future to finance the wars.

Anyway, if you have something to vent, perhaps you can do so in the political thread. Really no need to take the opportunity to bad mouth Americans. Remember, NSA is listening and our drones can kill you instantly. I'd be careful if I were you.

Wow Billi....wow

[Sad, little man]

Sooooo.... Asteroids and stuff, right?

[G'day Mate]

Yep. Apparently they're currently trying to work out which way is up so that they can do SCIENCE!!

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh6pzwobfW1qbh26io1_500.gif

[overpowered]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/988417_969730003048011_5515068784418719497_n.jpg?o h=cf88e748969110063a47cb3b10268070&oe=54D43302&__gda__=1423700483_327665ab2cdefef4f7b17d5c2f2b19b 0

[JSGeneral]

30,000 mph
300,000,000 miles
3,000 days

...

HALF-LIFE 3 CONFIRMED!!!1!!!

[Rare White Ape]

ALL THESE WORLDS
ARE YOURS EXCEPT
EUROPA
ATTEMPT NO
LANDING THERE

Hmmmm, not sure if genuine concern for contaminating any possible life there, or just a movie reference....!

[Godson]

I believe that is zero wing reference

[MR2 Fan]

Hmmmm, not sure if genuine concern for contaminating any possible life there, or just a movie reference....!

Isn't it from the movie 2010?

[JoshInKC]

Hmmmm, not sure if genuine concern for contaminating any possible life there, or just a movie reference....!

Mainly just a 2010 reference. I remember almost nothing about that film except that line. It's somewhat weird how often it pops into my head though.
I'm given to understand that most of the stuff we send into space is basically as clean as we can possibly get it before it's sealed up for launch and subjected to the rigors of interplanetary travel.
Though I would consider it a reasonable concern were we to send something beneath the ice. Even if there isn't anything native and alive down there, it simply wouldn't do to unintentionally introduce tardigrades or something.

[G'day Mate]

http://regmedia.co.uk/2008/09/10/waterbear2.jpg

[Rare White Ape]

Luckily, NASA is way ahead of these concerns.

http://planetaryprotection.nasa.gov/about

[Godson]

Yup, and sterilized equipment isn't super difficult to achieve.

[LHutton]

Okay, who accidentally brought a skull with them?

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1091762-ufo-sightings-alien-skull-found-on-mars-blog-claims/

[MR2 Fan]

Okay, who accidentally brought a skull with them?

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1091762-ufo-sightings-alien-skull-found-on-mars-blog-claims/

It would have been funny if NASA actually did bring a skull to plant there

Trolling level: MARTIAN

[LHutton]

It would have been funny if NASA actually did bring a skull to plant there

Trolling level: MARTIAN
:lol:

Great place to dispose of bodies too.

[tigeraid]

Finally, on their terrible shoestring budget, NASA has managed to put together projected plans to land humans on the asteroid belt and Mars.


http://www.iflscience.com/space/nasa-astronauts-will-head-mars-mid-2030s



During a press conference today on NASA TV, it was announced that Orion will bring four astronauts at a time to asteroids between Earth and Mars by 2025, and the first humans will reach the red planet in the mid-2030s. This venture into deep space will be the farthest humans have gone since Apollo 17 went to the moon in 1972.

With the first goal date only about 10 years away, the importance of Thursday’s test flight has been heightened. The Orion spacecraft will be unmanned, but the cabin will be filled with 1,200 sensors to collect information about radiation and heat, as well as testing different systems, including the launch abort system. At the time of this writing, the launch is still currently a ‘go’. Assuming no problems, Orion will launch on Thursday at 7:05 am EST from Kennedy Space Center. It will orbit the Earth at a distance 15 times greater than that of the International Space Station, and deploy 11 parachutes upon reentry, splashing down in the Pacific Ocean right around 11:30 am EST.

[FaultyMario]

Tiger, how did you not link to the reddit AMA with NASA's PM (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2o36aw/we_are_the_managers_at_the_helm_of_nasas_programs/)s.

[tigeraid]

cuz IFLS did? ;)

[Dicknose]

Furthest since 1972?
I think it will be the furthest ever by a long way.

Since 72 we have only been a few hundred km.

[JSGeneral]

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/#.VIBgIGfSJ8E

[Alan P]

Now Dat's cool!

http://i.imgur.com/eWUrZuZ.gif

[FaultyMario]

didn't NASA confirm the existence of organic compounds in Mars?

should have been big news

[overpowered]

They found small amounts of methane (between 7 and 9 parts per billion by volume), which could indicate that there was once life there but chances are, it doesn't.

Methane doesn't have to be produced by life.

[Rare White Ape]

And there's the possibility that you could be slightly misled by the term 'organic compound'.

In that context, organic does not refer to organisms. It means some of the molecules contain carbon.

[FaultyMario]

I understood as (either 0 or 100) "capable of" sustaining life.

[overpowered]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Eagle_nebula_pillars_2014.jpg/736px-Eagle_nebula_pillars_2014.jpg

:shocker:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Creation

[Leon]

Very very much so

I have a print of the old version on my wall. Which I think I now must update.

[JSGeneral]

This Space X two part plan for Friday's launch sounds cashews. Deliver cargo to the ISS (which they've done before)... but also after reaching a set launch altitude... have the main booster break away and then RE-LAND on an automated platform in the ocean. :twitch:

http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2014_51/812491/141217-launchprofile_f4fcb1ed474952c078a75c07a96cae6f.nbc news-ux-800-700.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

I wonder if this is really worth it...

You could've used the fuel to deliver a bigger payload into space rather than using it for re-entry slowdown and for landing. Further, now you have to watch out for weather conditions not only at the launch site, but also near the landing drone ship site as well? Will this really be cheaper than regular rockets?

I guess if SpaceX can make it reliable enough to rarely crash, then perhaps. Otherwise, you'd be spending the extra fuel/cost for nothing.

[Rare White Ape]

Well, they're sending stage 1 into space, letting it fall back into the atmosphere, and landing it softly on a target that is relatively tiny, all without parachutes. What they're doing here is piggy-backing a soft landing test flight on a proper space flight that contains other research material anyway.

Think about what this means.

It's not about the ease or cost of refurbishing the Falcon 9 for re-use on a subsequent launch.

If you can deliver a ready-made rocket in a vertical orientation on a surface without an atmosphere, all you need to do is supply it with fuel to take off again. Normally the first stage is scuppered to remove the dead weight, but doing this makes it valuable again.

Think about it!

[Rare White Ape]

Here's what a test of this looks like:

http://youtu.be/0UjWqQPWmsY

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, it looks really cool. However, one has to consider the bottomline.

Just as shuttle was a cool concept, but just can't go on due to its enormous cost. If it were cheaper to operate, surely we'd still have shuttles flying today!

What they're doing isn't really that much of a technical challenge. It has been done. Lunar lander landed vertically and had to take off from the moon again. Yeah, for a bigger planetary mission such as mars, a small lunar module size vehicle probably wouldn't be big enough to escape... so SpaceX's rocket will definitely come in handy. However, launches on earth, cheaper and simpler will always be better.

Or are you thinking of other applications that I'm not thinking of?

[Rare White Ape]

I'm saying it's one of the steps necessary for continued development of this concept.

[Random]

What they're doing isn't really that much of a technical challenge. It has been done.

Not on Earth it hasn't!

BTW, those of you on FB probably already know this, but retsmah's work at SpaceX has been on the grid fins. :)

edit: I think it's safe to say that SpaceX wouldn't be pursuing this portion of the project if it wasn't going to make things cheaper in the long run.

[Rare White Ape]

Fuck I didn't know retsmah worked at SpaceX.

I don't even know his real name so I can't stalk him!

*hint*

[Godson]

The first landing they did for testing * I think * was to re-land within 100m. The fins he designed are supposed to make it accurate with 1m...

[Random]

Robert Story.

[Rare White Ape]

Thanks mate :up:

[JSGeneral]

Think about it!

Someone made a diagram --with descriptions limited to using only the top 1000 most commonly used English words. So now anyone can understand it :cool:
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/vfrxmycjds5dphcqgdey.jpg

[FaultyMario]

I thought Helium in scientific applications was mainly a coolant.

Mick, help out?

[Random]

I thought Helium in scientific applications was mainly a coolant.

Mick, help out?

The rocket guys use it for a purge gas and also to pressurize the fuel tanks.

[Rare White Ape]

....so that the rocket fuel inside is able to flow out into the fuel pumps! It's just like an air valve on a jerry can.

That Bird 9 diagram is reminiscent of Up Goer Five, one of the best XKCD comics of all time.

http://xkcd.com/1133/

[Crazed_Insanity]

Not on Earth it hasn't!

BTW, those of you on FB probably already know this, but retsmah's work at SpaceX has been on the grid fins. :)

edit: I think it's safe to say that SpaceX wouldn't be pursuing this portion of the project if it wasn't going to make things cheaper in the long run.

NASA and McDonnel Douglas's DCX is very similar, right? Probably not as big or capable as the Falcon9, but I just don't think SpaceX is the first doing it. Below is a flight test during 1995.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv9n9Casp1o

SpaceX must've figured out a way to make it cheaper... I hope. I hope they've done actual trades proving this...

What I'm worry about is that perhaps this is just something that Elon Musk thought was cool to do... ;)

You know, kinda like the Model S door handle. I don't see the value of making that that complicated.

Or the Model X's gull wing door. Which is likely what's causing the production delays.

Sometimes I think Musk pursue things at extra cost only because he thinks it's cool.

I do hope things work out for him of course. If he can make things cool to work out, great! I just don't want his projects to fail simply because he lost focus to what's really important.

Affordable entry into space is the #1 priority. Re useable or not should be 2ndary.

NASA pursued the cool shuttle... and it really cost them. A lot more cool space projects and missions could be funded if it weren't for the shuttle gobbling up all the funding.

[G'day Mate]

Stuff going to space. Can be a flying bunch of science stuff or the not real flying reptile space car

... wtf?

[Random]

The DCX was a different proposition (single stage to orbit) and never got much higher than 10k feet in the limited testing they did before it was cancelled.

[Crazed_Insanity]

To me, earth surface to orbit and then come back to earth is the basic proposition. Don't tell me you'll look at a 3 stage rocket doing similar mission as something totally brand new again? I couldn't careless how many stages actually. They're trying to accomplish the same thing. DCX was basically just a demonstrator. Its main purpose wasn't just to fly to 10k feet and then coming back down for landing for fun. It's just the 1st step to see if they can get a 'rocket' to land safely. There were plans to do further tests, but I'm not sure why NASA didn't go forward. Could be that perhaps it's just not worth it... or it could be that funding was just too tight so they couldn't afford to move forward... thanks to the expensive shuttle missions they had to maintain. Anyway, I suspect NASA just thinks conventional rockets are probably just cheaper way to go..., that's why it wasn't pursued further..., however, I don't know that for a fact. If SpaceX succeeds in the reuseable rocket business, then my suspicion would be wrong of course.

So to me, I don't thing Elon Musk 'invented' this. Same with electric cars. However, it is recognized that he's pretty good at perfecting them. Kinda like Apple didn't really invent the music player or the cell phone or the tablet, but they sure made them work pretty darn well and achieved incredible success in the market. I do hope SpaceX is right regarding reusing rockets.

[Rare White Ape]

... wtf?

The SpaceX capsule (space car) is called Dragon.

Dragons are fantasy beasts.

Hence, not-real flying reptile!

[Rare White Ape]

Hey Billi, you're off the mark in comparing this to the space shuttles. They have two very different roles.

But look what's been done before!

http://www.roumazeilles.net/news/fr/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/lunar_module.JPG

SpaceX is not the first so who cares?

I think you're missing the point.

[Dicknose]

Mars is the big goal.
And while getting there is tough, getting back from the surface is an order of magnitude tougher.
Being able to land a vehicle that could take off again is critical.
Might not need to land people with it, they could come down in a separate craft. Might not need to get you back to Earth, maybe just back up to Mars orbit.

If it's for Mars it wouldn't be stage 1. Maybe it's a second stage that is used to get to Mars.

Anyway, good to see them trying ideas and making big leaps, even if they don't have an immediate payoff.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Random was the one telling me that we haven't done anything similar on earth before, I was just trying to point out that's not really true. Anyway, my point was never about originality, but future space programs must consider cost as primary factor and take baby steps. Or else our achievements would be a gigantic waste of money eventually. Shuttle was merely an illustration that we should consider cost more carefully. Reuseable may sound cheaper on paper, but difficult to achieve in reality. Shuttle was originally thought to be cheaper, but obviously NASA overlooked something. Even without the accidents, shuttle missions were costing too much. Initial vision of flying them weekly was never realized. To me, shuttles should be cheaper than reusable rockets because Shuttle doesn't require too much fuel to come back. It can just 'glide' back by taking advantage of earth's atmosphere. Where as rockets need to actively use fuel to come back down to the surface. To me, that should only be necessary if we're landing on the moon or somewhere without atmosphere...

Speaking of moon, yes, going to the moon was cool and it's a mission eventually accomplished. However, once the coolness factor wears off. Even money printing US government cannot sustain it forever. Intermediate baby steps should've been focusing on have a space station first... and with smaller rockets... As for the shuttle, there was just too much wishful thinking. We shouldn't have put that many of our eggs into the shuttles. Our space station really shouldn't be 'dependent' on shuttles. Modules should've been able to be sent via rockets as well. So in the end we end up with a shuttle that too expensive to sustain and need to rely on Russian rockets. Now, we're going back to rockets and capsules for our future man missions. Of course these US space programs were not entirely wasteful. They not only achieved what we set out to achieve, but it also spun off new technologies and new industries and new jobs... it's just that the space programs themselves usually halted with big gaps or lack of continuity in-between. I wish the transition could be smoother. So my original point was simply hoping that SpaceX knows what its doing and not just pursuing this re-useable part simply for 'coolness'. If this feature will indeed further lower the cost of launching things into orbit, then I'm sure they will enjoy not only huge but also sustainable success/business.

Last week's successful launch but failed landing was already pretty impressive. At least the rocket came back and crash right into the landing ship! ;) What SpaceX has achieved is already enormously impressive. If they can reuse their rockets reliably later on and make it not only better but also cheaper than other launch providers..., then their future is bright! However, my main point really is that their future already is pretty bright even without pursuing the reusable landing part! But I guess Elon Mush just couldn't stop tickering and want to make things better. ;)

[Godson]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/4982309a82cc0b0f9374361cdf3aeff6/tumblr_n55c9y8aOd1t1t3koo1_500.gif

[tigeraid]

For fuck's sakes...

http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/11/7528337/senator-ted-cruz-nasa-subcommittee



Senator Ted Cruz appointed to oversee NASA in Congress

Cruz, a Republican, has said it is "critical that the United States ensure its continued leadership in space," but his stances on established science will no doubt be concerning: he's gone on record, for example, denying that climate change exists. Cruz has also promoted himself as a Tea Party spending hawk, attempting to slash budgets across the government.

[Random]

Yup. :|

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hey, look at the bright side, maybe he'll learn a thing or 2 from NASA now that he's forced to over'see' what scientists at NASA are actually doing.

I for one am interested in seeing how he's going to ensure US continues its leadership in space while slashing budgets. Something's gotta give, right? Surely he's not going to slash the budget of the very agency that he's overseeing?

So I see the glass as half full. ;)

[Rare White Ape]

Hey, look at the bright side, maybe he'll learn a thing or 2 from NASA

You can't teach fundamentalists anything. You should know that.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yes, it's difficult and nearly impossible to change the minds of fundamentalists, but I wouldn't go as far as saying they all must be dumb and incapable of learning. Plus, nothing is impossible with God. :p

[MR2 Fan]

stinking canadians

[overpowered]

Right?

[tigeraid]

Hey he's yer fuckin' pal. He's not welcome here anymore.

[Godson]

It seems the Beagle 2 probe was found!

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/dogged-beagle-2-probe-found-on-mars-after-a-decade-of-mystery/

[G'day Mate]

Last night's asteroid has its own moon (http://www.news.com.au/technology/science/the-asteroid-that-skimmed-by-earth-last-night-has-its-own-moon/story-fnjwlcze-1227199237014).

[LHutton]

https://youtu.be/SEerIGTm2nE

[Rare White Ape]

Stratosphere does not equal space.

Nice try geeks. Only 80km to go!

[overpowered]

I just looked it up and high altitude balloons can sometimes get as high as 36km though more typically pop at about 30km. The Kármán line is 100km, so I think it's probably more like 70km short.

Apparently the BU60-1 balloon made it to 53km. It was specially made by a team trying to set new records; not your typical off the shelf weather balloon.

[Rare White Ape]

So I was 10km off. That's practically IN SPACE.

[overpowered]

You are still talking about 0.005 atm at that altitude. There's not a lot of air that high. Technically it's not space but only a handful of special aircraft that aren't rocket powered can fly that high. Balloons do get that high but then they pop, which isn't exactly optimal.

Of course, getting anywhere near the Kármán line still requires rockets so far. Maybe we'll see if this EM drive is anything other than the bullshit that it seems to be.

[Leon]

Hurry up mission to Pluto.

[fidget]

[JSGeneral]

...Maybe we'll see if this EM drive is anything other than the bullshit that it seems to be.

Is it? From everything I've read, it appears that the tests (independent ones run in the US, UK, and China) all seem to show two things:

It works.
Science cannot explain why.



Now I know this rocket science is WAY above my head, but I not-so-modestly consider myself an educated man (which also means that this can make me the most dangerous of uneducated men). What do you think about it makes it bollocks? Not trying to start a debate... I'm just trying to absorb as many theories as possible about this thing.

For me, the EM drive sounds sexy. Traveling over 9% of the speed of Light! If this thing is for real, it's a gateway into a whole new future.

But science is rarely sexy. :(

[Godson]

Except in the movies with scantily clad women.

[overpowered]

I'm skeptical when people start claiming that they are violating Newton's laws of motion.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ethansiegel/2015/05/04/no-nasa-did-not-accidentally-invent-warp-drive/

We're going to need to see extraordinary evidence that it really works before we start revising the laws of motion.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Is it? From everything I've read, it appears that the tests (independent ones run in the US, UK, and China) all seem to show two things:

It works.
Science cannot explain why.



Now I know this rocket science is WAY above my head, but I not-so-modestly consider myself an educated man (which also means that this can make me the most dangerous of uneducated men). What do you think about it makes it bollocks? Not trying to start a debate... I'm just trying to absorb as many theories as possible about this thing.

For me, the EM drive sounds sexy. Traveling over 9% of the speed of Light! If this thing is for real, it's a gateway into a whole new future.

But science is rarely sexy. :(

When there are no theories for you to absorb, what do you want to absorb? ;)

I think this is kinda like discovering for the 1st time that time is relative, without Einstien's theory of relativity. Scientists have discovered something odd, but have no way to explain nor predict any of their discoveries. Anyway, I'm sure they'll figure it out somehow if the discovery is really true.

[Leon]

The great thing about science, is that it turns out we don't know everything.

[overpowered]

True, and if they come up with extraordinary proof, I will applaud them. I'm just skeptical at this point. We haven't really seen the proof.

[JSGeneral]

True, and if they come up with extraordinary proof, I will applaud them. I'm just skeptical at this point. We haven't really seen the proof.

Totally fair. Without skeptics, science would NEVER advance. Science would never be challenged, if there are only those with blind faith and those others who are excited and want to believe. Keep them honest!

[Rare White Ape]

It's the second-most full of shit story this week.

The first-most, of course, being the beard-poo story.

[overpowered]

The FACTS as we currently know them about the EmDrive and Cannae Drive

https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/34cq1b/the_facts_as_we_currently_know_them_about_the/

[LHutton]

I just looked it up and high altitude balloons can sometimes get as high as 36km though more typically pop at about 30km. The Kármán line is 100km, so I think it's probably more like 70km short.

Apparently the BU60-1 balloon made it to 53km. It was specially made by a team trying to set new records; not your typical off the shelf weather balloon.
In reality the distinction between the atmosphere and space is an arbitrary one. Above 20km there's very little that resembles air and many spy satellites come closer than 100km during their orbit.

[overpowered]

The fact that a latex balloon can get to 36km means that before it pops, the gas inside the balloon is enough less dense than the air around it to hold up the weight of the balloon and its payload. There's some air there. It's not much but it's enough. I realize that it's arbitrary. There's no exact spot where the atmosphere properly ends, but the Kármán line is generally accepted as reasonable by aeronautics and space organizations.

[Dicknose]

I would say that almost by definition "space" is above where a balloon can go.
Buoyancy and space don't go together.

[LHutton]

That's true enough when you look at it that way. Interestingly the US recognises anyone who goes above 50 miles as an astronaut and oddly enough the Space Treaty that protects space equipment from being shot down by rival powers doesn't actually specify an altitude but yes, 100km is the more commonly recognised divide, but some satellites get closer than that during their orbit.

[sandydandy]

New Horizons is closing in on Pluto. Very exciting. Last month it sent back a picture of Pluto and Charon. Previous to that I think the best pic they ever had was one that was heavily pixelated. The next couple of months will be very exciting.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSVv40M2aks

[Random]

Philae woke up. :)

[Godson]

!!!!!

[sandydandy]

'Pyramid' discovered on another planet.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/23/us/feat-ceres-pyramid/index.html

[overpowered]

http://www.businessinsider.com/photos-of-russian-abandoned-space-shuttles-by-ralph-mirebs-2015-6

[GB]

My son, Connor, coming in from outside: "Dad, I think I saw the rocket come back down."

Uh oh. :(

[GB]

Early, uninformed conjecture on my part, based only on the single video available:
LOX tank sprung a leak... leak became LARGE... vehicle detected the malfunction... auto-destruct for safety.


http://www.mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/video.html?clip=http://static.baynews9.com/newsvideo/bn9/web_video/Web_Rocket_Explodes_062815.f4v&vtitle=SpaceX%20rocket%20erupts%20after%20takeoff

[Crazed_Insanity]

Someday Musk will make his rockets to return home safely in the event of a malfunction!

For now, rockets are pretty much flying bomb. The leak itself was probably enough initiate a self destruction sequence...

[Godson]

So Philae might be able to be the first thing to find extraterrestrial life. And on a comet of all things

[FaultyMario]

Prometheus!

They're using comets! we're being duped!

[Rare White Ape]

So Philae might be able to be the first thing to find extraterrestrial life. And on a comet of all things

Curious, I read up just now on what you said and saw the name Chandra Wickramasinghe attached to it.

Shortly after I read that name, I slowly pointed my finger toward the close tab button on my phone's browser, and decided that nothing remarkable had taken place.

[Dicknose]

It does seem possible that early life may have been "seeded" on Earth from a comet.
But that doesnt really help with "where the F did that life come from?"

A planet with water seems a likely candidate for life to evolve.
Unless you want to argue it was another planet, say Mars. And that a comet managed to pick up life and carry it away and eventually to Earth.
But that just seems like a far less likely scenario and still doesnt remove the original problem.

Its not like we are sitting on an object in our solar system that seems less likely than others to have life.
Different if we scratched a living on some tough little rock, wondering how the hell could this place ever get life.

[Rare White Ape]

There's more chance that Jesus actually existed, than there being signs of life on a comet.

After all, we know for sure that Jesus would have come from an environment that we know for sure is able to sustain life, and we even have evidence of his species existing during the time that he is said to have lived.

[Rare White Ape]

Here we go, I just checked Bad Astronomy.

Phil Plait seems to have the same opinion of Wickramasinghe as I do!

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/07/07/comet_life_no.html

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huC3s9lsf4k

[Random]

Is it sad or cool that I recognized Scott's voice instantly? :lol:

[overpowered]

http://www.wired.com/2015/07/new-horizons-got-excited-passed-july-4th/


New Horizon’s central computer was gearing up for new observations while simultaneously compressing science it had already captured. All the activity overclocked its processor, so it went into sleep mode.

In other words, New Horizons got so excited it passed out.

[Dicknose]

Im not sure if the asteroid video is just showing the "near Earth asteroids", which means "not in the asteroid belt".
He mentions "near Earth", but doesnt say if its only them (ok - yes he does. he says "5000 nearest the earth")

Also - what is so hard about finding asteroids that are inside our orbit. Yes they will at times be between us and the sun. But they will also spend a fair bit of time at a reasonable angle to the sun. Just like Venus does. If they are close to the orbit of Mercury they might be difficult to pickup, but then they are also a long way away (and not NEO) and would only pose a threat if Mercury or Venus radically altered their orbit (and then we would be able to see them)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-Earth_object says that over 90% of 1km wide NEO have been found.
He says "some estimates we have only found 1% of the near Earth asteroids" - which may be true, but if we have found over 90% of the largest, then do we care so much about the small ones? Does it matter if we dont track ones 20m across, like that they exploded over Russia recently.

Obviously at some point it would be good to identify all 1km wide objects in the solar system, not just those that are current in a near Earth orbit.
It would also be good to move our size guide for NEO down to say 100m across.
But how important is that and what time frame should we set on it? Would 100 years be ok?

[Rare White Ape]

It's super hard, like, super-dooper hard to see things in space like asteroids from the ground. They're so small and dim. That atmosphere is all thick and glarey and stuff, even in the evening. Perfect conditions to miss them.

Sentinel will be an infra-red telescope that orbits near Venus and looks outwards. Made specifically for that job. That way it'll easily track any small and warm objects like asteroids as they reflect light from the sun.

I'm thinking on my own here, but I think it would be an important tool used by NASA if they plan to send humans to an asteroid. It could find an ideal candidate that isn't moving too fast relative to us, and give us plenty of time to plan a mission.

Plus it's another excuse to launch something into space.

[overpowered]

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/pluto-and-charon-new-horizons-dynamic-duo

[Dicknose]

The article starts with "spinning around their common center of gravity"
Well that sums up most 2 body systems, including the Earth and Moon. I guess they are trying to emphasise that the centre of gravity is outside both objects, while the Earth/Moon is inside the Earth.
(but for note - the Sun/Jupiter centre of gravity is outside the Sun, due to to the size of Jupiter and its large distance from the Sun)

[Rare White Ape]

Does that take into account the other bodies which continually shift the entire solar system's centre of gravity?

[Dicknose]

The other bodies have a small effect compared Jupiter and the Sun.

The "solar centre of gravity" does actually move relative to the Sun, think the planets in alignment vs the planets spread around the Sun.
And Jupiter is the only one where the "2 body centre" is outside the Sun.
Saturn is less the 1/3 mass of Jupiter. But between the 2 gas giants they are something like 90% of the mass of the solar system excluding the sun.
I would guess that you could get a pretty accurate model of the Suns wobble/orbit using just these 3 and ignoring all the other planets.

[overpowered]

3D interactive space junk map.

http://stuffin.space/

I had to disable adblock to get it to work, even though it doesn't seem to have any ads.

[Kchrpm]

Works with AdBlock still on for me. That's a lot of stuff.

[Rare White Ape]

I've got an old Kerbal game save that looks like that.

The things you gotta remember with space junk are:
-Compared to the size of space, space junk is tiny, so collisions are unlikely
-It's all moving relative to other space junk, usually in the same direction for different orbit types, so collisions are unlikely
-If orbits do cross, the chances of them crossing at the exact same altitude at the exact same location (think of a target between 1 and 10 cm), at the exact same time are exceedingly low, so collisions are unlikely

Having said that, collisions are devastating and will only cause more debris to fill space around the earth.

[Dicknose]

Geostationary isn't so bad as the orbits are the same.
But at other altitudes he orbits can have quite different inclinations (or even eccentricity, ie not circles), so they might have the same speed, but not in the same direction.

While the chance for a collision is small, it does go up if you spend years up there, like most satellites are expected to do.
And of cause it's getting worse, more junk, more targets!

[Kchrpm]

I'm sure they've discussed potential solutions, has one came out as the leader?

[overpowered]

http://orbitaldebris.jsc.nasa.gov/faqs.html#5

[overpowered]

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/how-big-is-pluto-new-horizons-settles-decades-long-debate

I was curious so I looked it up: It takes 4.6 hours for radio signals from New Horizons to reach earth.
It was launched 9.5 years ago and it's the fastest space craft we've ever made.

[Freude am Fahren]

So there has to be some kind of Doppler effect on those radio waves given the craft's speed, right? I know it's a tiny shift, but they must have to compensate for that right? Just kind of cool to think about...

[overpowered]

It's travelling over 36,000 mph away from us so yeah, there's going to be a Doppler effect and they would have to compensate.

[sandydandy]

This is an historic day.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqZevdR4wPA

[overpowered]

Live in 2 minutes:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nasa-media-channel

[Freude am Fahren]

NASA can go to Pluto, but they can't get audio and video to sync :p

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html seems to work better than youtube, but is still sketchy. If you have NASA TV on your TV provider, that has it too.

Someone in the youtube stream said they should have gotten Pied Piper to stream it. :lol:

[overpowered]

UStream stopped working for me. The YT sync problem is annoying.

That one you posted seems to be working. Thanks.

[overpowered]

Someone in the youtube stream said they should have gotten Pied Piper to stream it. :lol:How many people actually get that joke? I do, but I'm super nerd.

[Freude am Fahren]

So probably most of the people watching :)

[G'day Mate]

http://41.media.tumblr.com/161f64e9b289613acbf03f8c49e4d251/tumblr_n32ddetfro1t7tm0mo2_1280.jpg

[Rare White Ape]

So there has to be some kind of Doppler effect on those radio waves given the craft's speed, right? I know it's a tiny shift, but they must have to compensate for that right? Just kind of cool to think about...

That compensation would be built into the equipment used to transmit it.

While you're at it, download this, it's fucking awesome.

http://eyes.nasa.gov/

I was viewing the NH simulation synched with the moment the real flyby happened (I had just finished playing Kerbal Space Program and had NASA TV playing on my phone as I was doing this).

Nerds unite!

[Dicknose]

Yes there would be Doppler shift, but it's small. It's a tiny fraction of speed of light.
What is far more complicated is that it's speed is changing, due to slingshots (Mars, Jupiter)
And that it's speed relative to Earth is changing, mostly due to Earths orbit.
So while it's generally moving away from us, it's best described as moving away from the Sun. Now we orbit the sun, so at some point we are moving in orbit towards it, other times away.

Hmm it's speed is currently 14.5km/s
Earths orbital speed is 30km/s
So we could have times when it's distance to Earth is decreasing!!
Yes the Earth is moving faster but in a circle. So we can move closer, but then would move away.

From a Doppler point of view, Earths speed (and direction) is the far more important factor!

[Freude am Fahren]

That is a good point. Do they time launches so the earth is moving in the direction they want to send the item (at least for the first leg before any slingshots)?

[overpowered]

They would also presumably want to time the launch so that when the probe is at Pluto, the earth is also at its closest to Pluto, as opposed to being on the opposite side of the sun.

[Random]

I like that they stuck a couple quarters on the spacecraft, to pay the Ferryman. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charon_(mythology))*

* it's really for commemoration (and spin balance!), but this sounds way cooler.

[21Kid]

:lol:

[Random]

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2015/07151720-first-look-at-new-horizons-pluto-charon.html

[Dicknose]

That is a good point. Do they time launches so the earth is moving in the direction they want to send the item (at least for the first leg before any slingshots)?
Probably not Pluto.
Definitely for the slingshot

I think all the birds we have sent to the outer solar system have used sling shots, they would time the launch for reaching Mars (or Venus if they aimed in first)
That probably gives you a window every year or so.
Now you might then pick a time when Mars is in a good position.
For NH it then went to Jupiter for another slingshot.
Hmm, haven't looked but what are the positions of Jupiter and Pluto
(Or more importantly, Pluto now, Jupiter a few years ago!)

[Dicknose]

They would also presumably want to time the launch so that when the probe is at Pluto, the earth is also at its closest to Pluto, as opposed to being on the opposite side of the sun.

I don't think the extra distance would be a big factor, but not having the sun in between would be good.
But that would be maybe only a few weeks each year that the sun would block it.

[Random]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBPxcITFwTg

Animation of the trajectory. You can see that they did launch "with" the Earth's orbital rotation, which makes sense. No reason to give up that velocity...

[Phil_SS]

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2015/07141338-the-not-planets.html

Call me crazy but it feels like earth got screwed in terms of extra planetary bodies.

[Random]

We can make our own. ;)

[Rare White Ape]

That is a good point. Do they time launches so the earth is moving in the direction they want to send the item (at least for the first leg before any slingshots)?

The biggest factor by far was Jupiter's position. If they missed this launch window, they would have had to launch without a Jupiter gravity assist, and we wouldn't be getting a flyby until sometime in 2017-18.

And if you really want to be getting into the nitty-gritty of launch timing, you'll need to launch in the early in the day to go to the inner solar system, and late in the day for the outer solar system. That will allow the spacecraft to capitalise on the east-west roation of the earth for prograde or retrograde speeds relative to the sun.

[Dicknose]

And launch from near the equator
ie Florida or if you are European, from French Guiana (their main industry is rocket launches)

[overpowered]

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2015/07141338-the-not-planets.html

Call me crazy but it feels like earth got screwed in terms of extra planetary bodies.Our moon is the biggest relative to its planet size for any of the 8 remaining planets.

Charon is bigger relative to its planet but Pluto is now a dwarf planet. The reduced size difference is such that their barycenter is actually outside of Pluto.

Our moon is big enough to significantly affect the tides.

[overpowered]

http://gizmodo.com/these-pluto-truthers-insist-nasa-images-are-fake-1717828679

I am so sick of stupid people.

[sandydandy]

This sort of bullshit will always come with the territory.

[Dicknose]

The far out wackos are easy to ignore.

What I think is odd is the calls to make Pluto a planet again.
Especially when its based on New Horizons measuring it to be bigger than previously thought (which conservatively rounded down based on atmosphere effects)

The thing is that the size of Pluto is NOT what caused it to be downgraded from Planet to Dwarf Planet - it was the "didnt clear its orbit"
Saying its a bit bigger and bigger than Eris doesnt help (and its still got less mass)

So you are back to where we were when this change happened - if we call Pluto a planet, what else should be a planet?

I dont see NH has changed any of the logic or even radically changed any of the info. A small change in size of Pluto, even if it makes it "bigger" doesnt change the logic that led to it being a dwarf planet.

[Phil_SS]

The best reason for designating Pluto as a Dwarf planet has nothing to do with its size but its orbit. But people would have to be able to think outside of Kindergarten to understand.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Just tell them that if you put your finger over the word 'dwarf', Pluto is indeed just a 'planet'! :p

[Rare White Ape]

It's a cisplanet conspiracy.

[overpowered]

They're saying that the surface temperature of Pluto is about 40°K (-233.15°C). The melting point of nitrogen is 63.15°K. Nitrogen would be a solid on the surface of Pluto.

Of the elemental gases, only hydrogen, helium and neon are gaseous at that temperature.

Molecular gases, methane is also gaseous at that temperature.

[mk]

Dang, Freeman Dyson is still among us, hats off.
(the man was WWII RAF staff officer)

http://www.ted.com/talks/freeman_dyson_says_let_s_look_for_life_in_the_oute r_solar_system/transcript?language=en

[LHutton]

Our moon is the biggest relative to its planet size for any of the 8 remaining planets.

Charon is bigger relative to its planet but Pluto is now a dwarf planet. The reduced size difference is such that their barycenter is actually outside of Pluto.

Our moon is big enough to significantly affect the tides.
I watched something that reckoned the waves actually moved through land in the early days when the moon first formed after a collision with Earth.

[LHutton]

The far out wackos are easy to ignore.

What I think is odd is the calls to make Pluto a planet again.
Especially when its based on New Horizons measuring it to be bigger than previously thought (which conservatively rounded down based on atmosphere effects)

The thing is that the size of Pluto is NOT what caused it to be downgraded from Planet to Dwarf Planet - it was the "didnt clear its orbit"
Saying its a bit bigger and bigger than Eris doesnt help (and its still got less mass)

So you are back to where we were when this change happened - if we call Pluto a planet, what else should be a planet?

I dont see NH has changed any of the logic or even radically changed any of the info. A small change in size of Pluto, even if it makes it "bigger" doesnt change the logic that led to it being a dwarf planet.
The odd thing is that the Ch4 News over here stated that this made the US the first nation to visit all planets in the solar system, but Pluto ain't a planet. I think it's probably the bid to claim this achievement that led to the calls for it to be reclassified.

[Leon]

I am a fan of the planets, and the not planets.

The moons of the gas giants are strangely fascinating, regardless of planetary status.

If I could find more documentaries on them, I would be a happy camper.

[sandydandy]

The moons of the gas giants are strangely fascinating, regardless of planetary status. Definitely Titan. I wonder if there are any planned expeditions for that moon. Either manned or robotic. It'd be great.

[Freude am Fahren]

As far as I'm concerned, there are only 7 planets other than Earth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Planets).

[Random]

Definitely Titan. I wonder if there are any planned expeditions for that moon. Either manned or robotic. It'd be great.

There's been one already: Cassini/Huygens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huygens_(spacecraft)

[sandydandy]

Amazing that this has gotten zero mainstream coverage. I hope there's a manned mission in the works...in our lifetime at least.

[Random]

The photos from Cassini were and continue to be COMPLETELY amazing.

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/saturn/images/PIA08388.jpg

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width_feature/public/thumbnails/image/pia18322_1041.jpg?itok=-tjOb0oq

[Leon]

Yup, I've got a few Jupiter shots that I use as wallpaper :)

[Rare White Ape]

There's been one already: Cassini/Huygens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huygens_(spacecraft)

And specifically for Titan, there are early talks into sending a robotic boat to explore Titan's methane oceans, and for Europa, a mission to drill through its ice crust and deposit a submarine to explore its under-ice oceans.

They're probably 20 years from launch, though. And in 20 years time, they'll still be 20 years from launch.

[G'day Mate]

So ... if you were standing on the Charon side of Pluto, would you fall off?

I suppose not, but I wonder if all the high-jump and weight-lifting records are set on that side of the pl... celestial dwarf.

[overpowered]

SpaceX rocket exploded due to faulty steel strut, Elon Musk says

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/20/spacex-rocket-explosion-elon-musk-steel-strut

[Dicknose]

So ... if you were standing on the Charon side of Pluto, would you fall off?


Not in terms of gravity from Charon. Pluto is heavier and closer.

Its a bit confusing in that centre of mass depends on distance, but gravity falls off with square of distance.
So centre of mass can easily be changed by a distant mass, but that would have negligible effect on the overall force of gravity at the original centre of mass.

But one thing that can complicate small objects is the rotational speed vs escape velocity.
Something small and rotating fast (like an asteroid) can end up that things on the surface will be flung off.
Hence the Philae probe needing to anchor itself to the comet.

[G'day Mate]

Yeah I know ... F=G(M1*M2)d^2 and all that ... I was just wondering whether gravity would vary noticeably on different sides of Pluto thanks to Charon.

[Alan P]

I believe I'm right in saying that there are some of Saturn's (and maybe Jupiter's) moons that are bigger than Pluto?

Google to the rescue!

There are seven moons in our Solar System, including our own Moon, that are larger than Pluto. Jupiter's moon Ganymede is the largest moon in the Solar System, and Ganymede as well as Saturn's moon Titan are both larger than Mercury and Pluto. Earth's Moon, Jupiter's moons Callisto, Io, and Europa, and Neptune's moon Triton are all larger than Pluto, but smaller than Mercury.

[overpowered]

Callisto is only about 62km smaller in diameter than Mercury, which relatively speaking, is pretty close.

Someone made a wiki page of objects in the solar system that are large enough to be rounded by their own gravity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gravitationally_rounded_objects_of_the_Sol ar_System

[Rare White Ape]

I just had a crazy realization; it might be possible to place an object in space at the barycenter of the Pluto/Charon system, where the force of gravity between the two is equal, without it moving, or needing too much fuel to keep it in place, like a wee Lagrange point.

[JSGeneral]

NASA is making an exoplanet announcement today (http://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-s-making-a-big-exoplanet-announcement-this-week-here-s-how-to-watch-live)

[Dicknose]

I just had a crazy realization; it might be possible to place an object in space at the barycenter of the Pluto/Charon system, where the force of gravity between the two is equal, without it moving, or needing too much fuel to keep it in place, like a wee Lagrange point.

That would be the L1 point - the place between them that is balanced.
But it is definitely NOT the barycenter!
L1 is closer to the less massive object, the barycenter is closer to the more massive object.
Only if they have the same mass would they be the same point.

[Crazed_Insanity]

NASA is making an exoplanet announcement today (http://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-s-making-a-big-exoplanet-announcement-this-week-here-s-how-to-watch-live)

Wonder if we'll end up discovering the Avatar-like or Alien-like world...

[MR2 Fan]

Wonder if we'll end up discovering the Avatar-like or Alien-like world...

What if they find alien life and God was lying to us all of these years ;)

[Rare White Ape]

That would be the L1 point - the place between them that is balanced.
But it is definitely NOT the barycenter!
L1 is closer to the less massive object, the barycenter is closer to the more massive object.
Only if they have the same mass would they be the same point.

Ooohhh.

I totally thought that the barycenter would be an equalisation point.

Thinking on it now, the Earth-Sun L1 point is not far from Earth, and the barycenter would be well within the circumference of the Sun. In the case of Pluto-Charon, it would be much closer to Charon. My barycenter-hovering object would fall straight down to Pluto. Any barycenter-hovering object for the Earth-Sun system would be crushed and charred and vapourised before it even gets there.

[overpowered]

Thinking on it now, the Earth-Sun L1 point is not far from Earth, and the barycenter would be well within the circumference of the Sun.Relatively speaking true, but that's still about 1% of the distance to the sun, so over 9 million miles. Since earth's orbit is slightly elliptical, I would assume that L1 changes.

There have been three space observatories at L1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Cometary_Explorer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_and_Heliospheric_Observatory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Space_Climate_Observatory

[overpowered]

Kepler 452b

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/nasas-kepler-space-telescope-discovers-new-planet-n397141

[Godson]

I saw that. Very cool stuff.

1400 light years away, I wonder how long a radio signal would take to get there.

[Freude am Fahren]

Erm, 1400 years?

[Godson]

Erm, 1400 years?


Apparently yeah. I had no idea that radio waves travelled nearly the speed of light.

[overpowered]

In a vacuum, like space, they travel at the speed of light.

[Dicknose]

Apparently yeah. I had no idea that radio waves travelled nearly the speed of light.

ok - cross out "speed of light" and think "speed of electro-magnetic radiation, including light, xrays, radio, microwaves"

They are all fundamentally the same thing. The speed is the same. Just the frequency and wavelength that differ.

[Dicknose]

What does travel slower than electro-magnetic radiation is anything that is a particle (ie has mass)

That is solar wind (and coronal mass ejection). Thats stuff (matter) from the sun that gets blown out and can hit Earth. They travel fast, typically around 400km/s to 750km/s
Its electrons and protons - parts of matter than have been stripped down to their basic bits and thrown out of the sun at high speed (and high temp)
But that is still very slow compared to light - its about 0.1% of the speed of light.
So a solar flare can be seen and give many hours warning of the change in solar wind.

These things are also affected by gravity, in particular the gravity of the sun.
So they are slowing down as they go out (which is "up" relative to the sun).
The suns escape velocity is 42km/s - these are travelling at 10 times that, so they would leave the solar system (if they dont collide with something, like a planet). They would slow down in doing this - by the escape velocity. So some solar wind that started at 400km/s would leave the solar system at around 360km/s and then stay around that speed until it comes across another star system. But that would likely be millions of years.

And yes technically light is also affected by gravity, but from the non-relativistic point of view it doesnt change the speed of the light. So the light leaving the solar system is shifted slightly, but hasnt been slowed down by gravity.

[Rare White Ape]

I saw that. Very cool stuff.

1400 light years away, I wonder how long a radio signal would take to get there.

Heheheh heh heheh.

It's amazing to think, that just 26 LY away and beyond, there are planets that have never seen re-runs of The Simpsons. In a few year's time, they will get to experience LIVE ON TV the spectacle of the OJ Simpson car chase and the first Jurassic Park movie. But feel sorry for them too, because they don't yet know that there are three new movies coming that will change their perception of Star Wars forever.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm still waiting to watch some alien radio/TV shows...

Or maybe we've already missed their shows now that they've stop broadcasting over the air/space and just stream their shows over their internet! :p

[overpowered]

"Later today, July 27, German scientists will present new experimental results on the controversial, "impossible" EM Drive, at the American Institute for Aeronautics and Astronautics' Propulsion and Energy Forum in Orlando. The presentation is titled "Direct Thrust Measurements of an EmDrive and Evaluation of Possible Side-Effects."

https://hacked.com/scientists-confirm-impossible-em-drive-propulsion/

[Rare White Ape]

Hmmm. A news article right next to a link to a story about super intelligent alien robots.

Sawyer and his EM drive have "often been dismissed by the research establishment" for a very good reason. If it worked, they wouldn't dismiss it.

[LHutton]

It smells like one of those levitation/weight loss contraptions that claim to change gravity.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, if I invented one of those contraptions, or on the verge of inventing it, I most certainly would not want to advertise it so others might copy my work and then beat me to it.

Rather than publish my work, I'd rather just sell my invention to the highest bidder. Those article/links probably most likely are bogus.

However, I'm sure eventually somebody will invent these things in due time. ;)

(My company is so paranoid that I actually cannot even access that hack.com site!)

[MR2 Fan]

Yeah, if I invented one of those contraptions, or on the verge of inventing it, I most certainly would not want to advertise it so others might copy my work and then beat me to it.

Rather than publish my work, I'd rather just sell my invention to the highest bidder. Those article/links probably most likely are bogus.

However, I'm sure eventually somebody will invent these things in due time. ;)

(My company is so paranoid that I actually cannot even access that hack.com site!)

Yes, because selling new inventions to large corporations ALWAYS ends up helping all of humanity :rolleyes:

[overpowered]

New photos of Pluto released.

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/new-pluto-images-from-nasa-s-new-horizons-it-s-complicated

[21Kid]

https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/76866912/

SpaceX Falcon 9 Lander

The objective of the game is to slow down and land on the platform.
Press SPACE to change level.

[Random]

New photos of Pluto released.

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/new-pluto-images-from-nasa-s-new-horizons-it-s-complicated

And more: http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/News-Center/News-Article.php?page=20150917

http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/Multimedia/Science-Photos/pics/Pluto-Wide-FINAL-9-17-15.jpg

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[overpowered]

With a mean surface temperature of 44K, lots of stuff is ice, including stuff we normally think of as gasses.

[Random]

Yup.

The amount of surface relief is pretty cool. Low gravity!

[tigeraid]

So, this is a pretty big deal:

http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-confirms-evidence-that-liquid-water-flows-on-today-s-mars


New findings from NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) provide the strongest evidence yet that liquid water flows intermittently on present-day Mars.

Using an imaging spectrometer on MRO, researchers detected signatures of hydrated minerals on slopes where mysterious streaks are seen on the Red Planet. These darkish streaks appear to ebb and flow over time. They darken and appear to flow down steep slopes during warm seasons, and then fade in cooler seasons. They appear in several locations on Mars when temperatures are above minus 10 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 23 Celsius), and disappear at colder times.

“Our quest on Mars has been to ‘follow the water,’ in our search for life in the universe, and now we have convincing science that validates what we’ve long suspected,” said John Grunsfeld, astronaut and associate administrator of NASA’s Science Mission Directorate in Washington. “This is a significant development, as it appears to confirm that water -- albeit briny -- is flowing today on the surface of Mars.”

These downhill flows, known as recurring slope lineae (RSL), often have been described as possibly related to liquid water. The new findings of hydrated salts on the slopes point to what that relationship may be to these dark features. The hydrated salts would lower the freezing point of a liquid brine, just as salt on roads here on Earth causes ice and snow to melt more rapidly. Scientists say it’s likely a shallow subsurface flow, with enough water wicking to the surface to explain the darkening.

"We found the hydrated salts only when the seasonal features were widest, which suggests that either the dark streaks themselves or a process that forms them is the source of the hydration. In either case, the detection of hydrated salts on these slopes means that water plays a vital role in the formation of these streaks," said Lujendra Ojha of the Georgia Institute of Technology (Georgia Tech) in Atlanta, lead author of a report on these findings published Sept. 28 by Nature Geoscience.

[FaultyMario]

Awe some!

[overpowered]

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11178209_969471356446748_1173240036547878673_n.jpg ?oh=6221f7d212376412cfb24dab1af20e00&oe=56913DBE

[overpowered]

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/pluto-s-big-moon-charon-reveals-a-colorful-and-violent-history

http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/nh-charon-neutral-bright-release.jpg

[G'day Mate]

NASA unveils its plan to send humans to Mars permanently (http://www.iflscience.com/nasa-unveils-its-plan-send-humans-mars-permanently).

The detailed plan (http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/journey-to-mars-next-steps-20151008_508.pdf) includes capturing an asteroid to put between Earth and the Moon for practice stuff!!

[Leon]

Can I vote that they send Kardashians?

[LHutton]

Can I vote that they send Kardashians?
That will only mean 90,000 episodes of Kourtney and Chloe do Mars. I could only support such a mission if they weren't supplied with oxygen or pressurised suits.


NASA unveils its plan to send humans to Mars permanently (http://www.iflscience.com/nasa-unveils-its-plan-send-humans-mars-permanently).

The detailed plan (http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/journey-to-mars-next-steps-20151008_508.pdf) includes capturing an asteroid to put between Earth and the Moon for practice stuff!!
2040.:(

[Godson]

Can I vote that they send Kardashians?


The masses would be forced to learn something outside of their box. Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to acquire more funding...

[FaultyMario]

Aliens might hav (http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2015/10/the-most-interesting-star-in-our-galaxy/410023/)e built stuff in our galaxy. Kewl.

[overpowered]

http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width/public/thumbnails/image/nh-pluto_crop.jpg.png

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/new-horizons-publishes-first-research-paper-in-science-describing-numerous-pluto-system

[overpowered]

Enceladus

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/closest-ever-views-of-saturns-moon-enceladus

[overpowered]

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/dscovrepicmoontransitfull.gif

http://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/DSCOVR/

[Crazed_Insanity]

Nice glimpse of the other side of our moon! :up:

[Rare White Ape]

That's nice but it's FAKE

FACT


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mmfM-fEiec

[Dicknose]

The guy does say "does it look like an orbit?", but it is only 5 hours of a 28 day orbit. So it would seem similar to a simple translation across.
He also says the moon is above the same point on the Earth, but it doesn't seem that way to me.
I was wondering if this should have been an eclipse, but wasn't sure how inline the satellite was with the Earth and Sun.

Good point on the focus.

[Rare White Ape]

TBH I never watched that video, I just put it up for a laugh.

But I'll debunk anything he says with logic and evidence. Even the brief points you raise from the video:

It's technically called a transit, the footage is taken from a very zoomed camera about 1.5 million km from Earth, and shows the moon which orbits between 360,000 and 400,000 km. The rotation of the Earth seems to match the speed of the moon, but that is an illusion caused by the extreme perspective and the narrow angle of the image; in reality the Earth is spinning almost a quarter of its rotation while the moon completes a fraction of its orbit. Going by the thin shadows on the eastern limb of both earth and moon, it looks like the angle of the image may be slightly toward the 1 o'clock position in the sky, just east of midday, so the two objects don't line up at all with the angle of the sun back, and to the left (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBz3PqA2Fmc). While the satellite's camera is designed to be trained on the surface of the Earth, it is possible for both it and the moon to be in focus depending on the aperture of the lens that is attached to it.

[Random]

The "shadow" on the right side of the moon is an artifact of the camera process: red/green/blue images are combined to make the final picture, but they aren't taken simultaneously.

[Random]

Speaking of, the website where all the EPIC pictures are/will be posted is now live: http://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/

I can see my house from here! (and also the three hurricanes that were active in teh Pacific in late August)
http://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/epic-archive/jpg/epic_1b_20150831194200_00.jpg

[FaultyMario]

No place like bananas.

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ1KowQXc3Y

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCuQXGCuiPo