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novicius
February 13th, 2014, 09:19 AM
So Volts are hitting the used car market pretty solidly now; over 100 examples for sale in a 200 mile radius around my snowy capitol.

What are people's thoughts on buying a used Volt? Prices range as low as $14,999 for 86k miles (http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=363382608) to ~$20,000 for decent miles (http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=354449464).

Thoughts? :assclown:

Random
February 13th, 2014, 09:57 AM
What would you be replacing?

novicius
February 13th, 2014, 09:59 AM
My girl's 2008 Toyota Yaris at some point in the future.

Kchrpm
February 13th, 2014, 10:31 AM
Is there any word on battery replacement costs/frequency yet?

I've been a big fan of the Volt, or to be more fair the idea behind it and the styling (compared to similar vehicles) since I haven't driven one, so I think having them available at such a low price is very tempting. I have to be honest, if that was available when I was looking for a car, considering my love for the Vette+Volt combined garage and the potential for Chevy customer retention deals, I might have gotten one instead of the MS3.

novicius
February 13th, 2014, 10:49 AM
The warranty on the battery pack alone is 8 years/100,000 miles so it's entirely possible that one could buy a used Volt with a hefty amount of warranty left. I just read a comment that claims GM's fine print states the pack has to be replaced under warranty if it loses 30% (or more, presumably) of it's total charging capacity in that time.

Also, Prius' battery packs are proving to be more resilient than originally forecast or feared (http://www.dailytech.com/Cab+Driver+Passes+400000km+Mark+in+Prius/article8046.htm):


According to Grant, the Prius just surpassed the 400,000 kilometer (248,548 mile) mark. The Prius accomplished this feat by consuming just 10 to 15 liters of gasoline per 12-hour shift as opposed to 35 to 55 liters for traditional ICE taxis.

Over a 24-month period, the Prius had one-third less maintenance costs and there were no failures of the hybrid powertrain during 400,000 kilometers of driving. The lower maintenance costs coupled with a fuel savings of roughly 1,500 liters per month means that the Prius paid for itself in less than 24 months.
Maybe it isn't the mileage but the time? Still, if we kept the car for 10 years from the date of purchase, that alone would be a miracle. :lol:

21Kid
February 13th, 2014, 12:38 PM
I'd do it. :up: I heard the original Tesla Roadster's (http://www.plugincars.com/tesla-roadster-battery-life-study-85-percent-after-100000-miles-127733.html) batteries are lasting better than originally thought also.

thesameguy
February 13th, 2014, 01:51 PM
I'd think really hard about this. A brand new Volt is $34k - $10k in rebates (in most states). $24k is new - why save four grand and buy used unless it's literally just off the lot. Or, maybe if you've got dealers near you still pushing for MSRP as that can push a Volt up to near $40k. Then there's a $10k spread between new and used, and used makes more sense.

This is *exactly* what that article about depressed electric car values was about... as long as those tax credits exist, used electric car values are going to be in the shitter.

FWIW, my friend bought an 8 eight year old Prius with 140k (IIRC) on it for five grand a year ago. It's been doing great. *Personally*, given how well Priusseseissessi have been doing as they age, I'd look at a dirt cheap Prius before looking at a fairly expensive used Volt... because we don't yet know how they hold up, and it is GM, after all. :(

Crazed_Insanity
February 13th, 2014, 03:01 PM
Yeah, Volt for sure is riskier than Prius. I personally wouldn't place that bet with a used Volt.

With that said, if the battery goes bad, Volts can no longer be driven, right? Or be driven very inefficiently?

Older Honda Insights could be driven completely without batteries, yeah a bit under powered, but at least' it can still be driven as an underpower fuel efficient car! ;) Not sure about Prius or the Volt though.

thesameguy
February 13th, 2014, 03:08 PM
The Prius can be driven without batteries, but it will be angry at you - I believe this is true of the Civic Hybrid as well. The Volt is a series hybrid, and can only run off batteries. No batteries = no volts.

Jason
February 13th, 2014, 03:24 PM
I really like the idea behind the Volt. Probably not a car for me, right now, but I could definitely see owning something like it in the future under the right circumstance.

Random
February 13th, 2014, 03:40 PM
The new Accord hybrid is a similar series* concept. Asterix because, like the Volt, the IC engine can be mechanically connected to the wheels, it's not a pure series set up like a diesel-electric locomotive.

novicius
February 14th, 2014, 07:07 AM
I'd think really hard about this. A brand new Volt is $34k - $10k in rebates (in most states). $24k is new - why save four grand and buy used unless it's literally just off the lot. Or, maybe if you've got dealers near you still pushing for MSRP as that can push a Volt up to near $40k. Then there's a $10k spread between new and used, and used makes more sense.
Well I'm thinking more about shopping in the neighborhood of $12-15k. But the logic of a used Volt @ $20k is suspect if you can buy new for $24k, certainly.



I'd look at a dirt cheap Prius before looking at a fairly expensive used Volt... because we don't yet know how they hold up, and it is GM, after all. :(
GM has also just released the C7; it's not like they're incapable of creating a world-beating car in today's market.

The 1st & 2nd gen Priusseseissessi has been holding up well to age, temperatures and miles; I'd be surprised if the Volt didn't offer the same longevity.

But this thread shouldn't be about "will the battery pack live a long time". I am confident that most of them will. This thread should be more about the Volt's operating model -- is it a good one? Reading about traveling the first 40 miles of your day on pure battery power sounds appealing. Having an onboard gas engine sounds appealing. Trying to eke out more miles throughout your week without kicking on the onboard gas engine sounds interesting (and potentially addicitive).

TSG, if the money wasn't an issue, would you want a Volt-style drivetrain over the all-electric Fiat 500e?

KillerB
February 14th, 2014, 07:58 AM
If money wasn't an issue, who wouldn't?

novicius
February 14th, 2014, 08:05 AM
Alright, that's one vote. :up:

Kchrpm
February 14th, 2014, 08:17 AM
I think a lot of people would claim that putting the engine back in there keeps you relying on the gasoline fall back, and the maintenance/fossil fuel/noise/etc issues that come with it. Money no object, people in California are snapping up Tesla's at a rapid pace (though the only series hybrid competition of that size is the Fisker, I don't know if it was any good).

novicius
February 14th, 2014, 08:29 AM
Absolutely -- even here in Wisconsin I've seen a few Teslas out and about (including now in the bitter taint of winter).

A vote against. :up:

thesameguy
February 14th, 2014, 09:43 AM
GM has also just released the C7; it's not like they're incapable of creating a world-beating car in today's market.

Sure they can, but how often do they? GM has made a fistful of really, really good cars in the last 15 or so years - but also a whole pile of stinkers. I don't know what side of the fence the Volt falls on yet. I suspect it's quite good, but given their track record I wouldn't want to bet on it.


The 1st & 2nd gen Priusseseissessi has been holding up well to age, temperatures and miles; I'd be surprised if the Volt didn't offer the same longevity.

The battery is probably not the thing I would be worried about at this point. I don't think GM is actually making batteries anyway... maybe assembling, but not making. Batteries in modern implementations have, by and large, proven to be reliable. My hesitation is based on other things, like controllers, multifunction switches, and other such components. GM has made solid if uninspired drivetrains for many, many years. The rest of the stuff.... erg... notsomuch.


TSG, if the money wasn't an issue, would you want a Volt-style drivetrain over the all-electric Fiat 500e?

The answer to that is no, but maybe not entirely for obvious reasons. The range limitation on the Fiat is not a problem for us - we're two months in, and the number of times it's been a concern is zero. A vehicle that gets more range wouldn't be helping us, and in fact would be hindering us since we get 90 miles of pure electric driving, not 40. With a Volt, we'd still need to stop for gas every couple weeks. The girl hasn't been to a gas station since December 14th! Secondly, the size of the Fiat was part of its appeal, since it's freakishly easy to park downtown. I don't think you could cram a Volt-type drivetrain into a Fiat-sized car, so that's also a mark against. Finally, the Fiat's maintenance requirements are limited to "put air in tires." The Volt adds back in some portion of traditional ICE maintenance, which would be another mark against.

So while the idea of a series hybrid in and of itself is appealing, unless it could be built to provide the same all-electric range, zero maintenance, and small footprint the Fiat does, I'd still choose the Fiat. I had been shopping alternative fuel vehicles for months prior to getting the Fiat and did a last, final look around before signing the papers on it. The Fiat was the perfect intersection of cost, performance, and practicality - and I don't mean a compromise of them, but very close to a bloody trifecta. ;)

... for us. I can definitely see where a Volt would have been a superior choice - in a place where parking dimensions don't matter, and the daily grind was less than 40 miles or more than 90 miles, and performance isn't a consideration (and it wasn't for the Fiat, either), the Volt might be the right choice. We're just not there.

novicius
February 14th, 2014, 10:10 AM
The battery is probably not the thing I would be worried about at this point. I don't think GM is actually making batteries anyway... maybe assembling, but not making. Batteries in modern implementations have, by and large, proven to be reliable. My hesitation is based on other things, like controllers, multifunction switches, and other such components. GM has made solid if uninspired drivetrains for many, many years. The rest of the stuff.... erg... notsomuch.
Yes but the same failure rates could be easily leveled against modern FIATs. There are plenty of current Volt owners (heh) who are reporting flawless daily usage over the past two years anecdotally. I accept that GM puts out products that definitely will have issues -- but every other automaker has had some recent stinkers in their lineup, too. I call the perceived fears of reliability issues a wash. *shrug*


So while the idea of a series hybrid in and of itself is appealing, unless it could be built to provide the same all-electric range, zero maintenance, and small footprint the Fiat does, I'd still choose the Fiat.
Not that you'd take a long trip in the 500e but the *idea* that you could with an onboard gas/diesel engine is a strong part of the appeal for me. The PHEV series hybrid recipe really puts my fears of being stranded while road-tripping to rest. I don't know if you'd ever even consider trying that in the 500e.

Fully agree re: small footprint and leasing/maintenance deal but then that could be done on any car, ICE or EV.

Currently (heh), my city of Madison, WI has a mighty 8 public charging stations (http://www.cityofmadison.com/parkingutility/ElectricVehicleCharging.cfm) and our local power company MG&E offers another 19 (http://www.mge.com/environment/electric-vehicles/charging-stations.htm), for 27 total. None of them are SAE J1772 Combo DC Level 1/2 Quick Chargers (which are admittedly barely a year old), just the 240V J1772 AC Level 2's (as good as it gets out in the wild, eh?). I guess the CHAdeMO crowd charges at home.

Jason
February 14th, 2014, 10:33 AM
Not that you'd take a long trip in the 500e but the *idea* that you could with an onboard gas/diesel engine is a strong part of the appeal for me. The series hybrid PHEV recipe really puts my fears of being stranded while road-tripping to rest. I don't know if you'd ever even consider trying that in the 500e.

Exactly why I like the concept of the Volt, or a series hybrid.

My daily commute is about 20 miles round trip. If I could plug in at home, I'd basically never use gas in local travel. But if I take a longer trip/road trip, I certainly wouldn't be able to in an all electric vehicle.

novicius
February 14th, 2014, 10:36 AM
Yeah, the more I learn, the more I'm digging the Volt. :up:

I wasn't sure before but on paper it's sounding like it's the only beast of its kind since even the PHEV Prius that's available now is all-electric and not a series hybrid.

The new Honda Accord Hybrid also qualifies as a series hybrid -- but you can't plug it in at a charging station (ah, but the Accord Plug-In Hybrid does!). The gas engine/regenerative braking provides all the energy for the onboard batteries, unfortunately.

thesameguy
February 14th, 2014, 10:58 AM
Yes but the same failure rates could be easily leveled against modern FIATs.

Absolutely, but that's why we leased a brand new one. I don't have to deal with any potential aging issues, and in three years it's not my concern anymore. ;)


There are plenty of current Volt owners (heh) who are reporting flawless daily usage over the past two years anecdotally. I accept that GM might put out a product that definitely will have issues -- but every other automaker has had some recent stinkers in their lineup, too. I call the perceived fears of reliability issues a wash. *shrug*

I guess I'm not on that page. I'm totally willing to accept all cars have some quantity of issues within the first few years of their life and that those issues are, across the board, roughly similar. It's after the first few years that I think there is great variance from manufacturer to manufacturer... eg one might look at 20 year old Land Cruisers with 300,000 miles and say "no worries," but I'm not sure one would be so nonchalant if that was a Suburban... I'm not a big Land Cruiser fan and I am a big Suburban fan, but facts are facts. GM has a pretty piss-poor track record with aging cars whereas Toyota does not. All else being equal, I'd trust a five year old Prius inherently more than a five year old Volt.


Not that you'd take a long trip in the 500e but the *idea* that you could with an onboard gas/diesel engine is a strong part of the appeal for me. The series hybrid PHEV recipe really puts my fears of being stranded while road-tripping to rest. I don't know if you'd ever even consider trying that in the 500e.

The Fiat was designed to go 90 miles and then rest for six hours. It's definitely not a road trip car. When we bought it I was told a story about some dealer guys taking 500es to San Francisco for some event... they had to stop half way there and kill three hours at a 240v charging station to make it. :lol: There'd be no reason for us to try that, we'd take the Jag. Renting something is always an option for road-tripping for those people that aren't blessed with a second ICE-powered car - the Fiat includes 12 days annually of a free Enterprise rentals just for them!

If I was confined to one car, and for whatever reason could not rent a car (thus making a pure EV essentially not an option) I would certainly consider a Volt. Not even being in that situation a did consider a Volt. I just couldn't make the math work - new or used, the premium for a Volt was never offset by its fuel savings. But that's my (our) situation. There are certainly situations where a Volt could really pay off, especially if you have a <40 mile daily grind - you could drive in pure EV mode just about all the time, and use the gas engine only for those longer trips. That could be very cost-efficient! You just really need to fire up Excel and see where the crossover points are... FWIW, in most parts of the country the Volt costs $540 to drive 12,000 miles on pure electricity. It's a number you could compare against your fuel bill.

eg:

Volt is $34k + tax - rebates = $27,000, plus or minus
Chevy Cruze LTZ (similar size, similar equipment - but certainly not the most fuel efficient Cruze!) + tax = $25,000

How much gas does $2,000 buy? For us, the total cost of fueling the Volt versus the total cost of fueling a Cruze+$2,000 would be just about three years. We'd start "making money" in three years given we never started the ICE on the Volt. In a vacuum, I'd be okay with that, but I just wasn't sure I wanted to own the Volt past that three year mark where it would be earning us anything. To make the Volt appealing, for me, I'd need that payoff to start happening earlier. I need less of a gap between ICE and Volt, maybe a grand at most.

To be clear, that requirement isn't entirely based on potential reliability issues, but also potential improvements in the state of the art. Given how in flux this stuff is, I am not confident the things that make these cars tick today will be relevant or desirable in 2017. If Tesla's charging technology catches on, or battery swap technology catches on, or batteries get cheap or dense, nobody is going to want these terribly limited cars. I don't want to be left with something like that.

Of course, YMMV!


Fully agree re: small footprint and leasing/maintenance deal but then that could be done on any car, ICE or EV.

Well, not maintenance. EVs literally have no maintenance points except tire pressure - even brake pads are supposed to last a decade (and the Fiat is among the best of them, employing mechanical braking only under 8mph). Any ICE is going to need oil changes and brake jobs at the very least - although even hybrid cars also enjoy very long brake life on account of regenerative braking. I think my friend's 140k Prius is still on its original brakes! The Volt, in fairness, is probably similar.

novicius
February 14th, 2014, 11:19 AM
All else being equal, I'd trust a five year old Prius inherently more than a five year old Volt.
I understand and honestly I won't even argue this point further -- but the Prius is not a PHEV series hybrid so the point is moot.

Oh! There is a PHEV Prius -- the Prius PHV. All-electric range? 11 miles before the gas engine kicks in. :finger: #fuckthat


If I was confined to one car, and for whatever reason could not rent a car (thus making a pure EV essentially not an option) I would certainly consider a Volt.
This is basically what I'm finding out, too. I know the type of car I want, and currently (heh) there's the Volt (and Cadillac ELR), the Ford C-Max Energi, the Honda Accord Plug-In Hybrid, and BMW's upcoming i3/i8 cars. But the Volt has the longest battery-only range, it's on the market now and the used car values are dropping fast. :D

thesameguy
February 14th, 2014, 11:37 AM
Oh! There is a PHEV Prius -- the Prius PHV. All-electric range? 11 miles before the gas engine kicks in. :finger: #fuckthat

Haha! Toyota was first in "big" with the parallel hybrid and they definitely made it their long-term plan. I'd feel a little bad for them, but of course they've been raking in money on their cars. I'm sure their investment paid off, and probably continues to do so. Most folks aren't even having this conversation, they just heard the Prius is cheap to run and that's that.

FWIW, I wouldn't consider a Prius either. If I couldn't make something with reasonably modern technology - like the Volt - work, I'd buy ICE and sit on the sidelines til the next iteration. (Which is what I almost did, but the Fiat popped up and fit well)


This is basically what I'm finding out, too. I know the type of car I want, and currently (heh) there's the Volt (and Cadillac ELR), the Ford C-Max Energi, the Honda Accord Plug-In Hybrid, and BMW's upcoming i3/i8 cars. But the Volt has the longest battery-only range, it's on the market now and the used car values are dropping fast. :D

They are indeed! I suspect the time to strike is soon, because it's pretty much for certain those rebates are going to evaporate within a year or two. Alternative Fuel and hybrid vehicles are getting pretty solid traction, and I'm sure the government(s) will pull out of subsidizing them soon. Once those rebates go away, and a new Volt is really $34k instead of $24k, used prices on them will almost certainly shoot back up to appropriate levels. KBB's predictions be damned, there's no way a $34k ~three year old Volt is going to be $14k forever.

... Shit, maybe I should go buy one, drive it for a couple years, then sell it for what I paid once that happens. :D

The359
February 14th, 2014, 10:16 PM
Speaking of the Volt, is GM still pushing ahead with the Cadillac ELR? I mean, a Chevy Volt with higher price tag and less doors makes even more sense now, right?

Random
February 14th, 2014, 10:53 PM
There's room on the road for cars with style, IMO.

Some people don't see the point in having the Lexus hybrid hatch, either, but I like it a lot--same Prius efficiency in a good looking package.

The359
February 15th, 2014, 12:08 AM
But the Lexus CT is built on an established, successful platform, and it starts at the same ~$35,000 price tag, yet Lexus has sold more CTs than Chevrolet has sold Volts. I just don't see how a $75,000 Cadillac built on a not so successful platform can be a success.

thesameguy
February 15th, 2014, 11:26 AM
There is the theory that the Volt lacks style & image and drives buyers to other brands & models, like the CT. GM is just trying to field something to catch them.

I'm glad I wasn't the first to admit affection for the CT, but I am now comfortable admitting I like it quite a bit... not really compelling mechanically, but I love the way it looks.

Crazed_Insanity
February 15th, 2014, 09:51 PM
Lexus CT doesn't produce the same kind of mpg #s as the Prius. If you're really green with money, you really wouldn't spend the extra money to be less green. If you're just rich and not green, you probably won't go for the cheap looking Lexus. Plus, I sat in the back of a CT once. Driven by a small lady with her daughter..., my wife and I in the back had almost no leg room in the back. Trust me, their front seats are not all the way back or anything like that. Personally I think the CT is a mistaken. But glad some folks like it I guess...

As for that Caddy, yeah, I can't believe that makes sense either. However, perhaps GM's figuring since they can't sell that many, might as well increase the profit margin/unit sold? ;)

Anyway, CR is saying Volt is as good as a Civic or Corolla in terms of dependability for 3 yrs. I guess that's pretty good positive review. Makes buying a used Volt less risky. Kinda hard to build a car as solid as Civics and Corollas for 3 yrs running and then have it fall apart all of a sudden after 4 or 5 yrs, right?

TheBenior
February 15th, 2014, 10:02 PM
Anyway, CR is saying Volt is as good as a Civic or Corolla in terms of dependability for 3 yrs. I guess that's pretty good positive review. Makes buying a used Volt less risky. Kinda hard to build a car as solid as Civics and Corollas for 3 yrs running and then have it fall apart all of a sudden after 4 or 5 yrs, right?
I dunno, VW 2.0 TFSI cam followers wearing out by 80,000 miles is distressingly common. Some go before the 50k warranty is up, but most will outlast it. It leads to camshaft damage and cylinder head replacement (because VW charges less to replace the head than just the camshafts).

KillerB
February 15th, 2014, 10:20 PM
The Lexus CT would be a lot better if it didn't have an interior out of a late 90s Toyota.

I mean, really? REALLY? So is the tape deck in the armrest?

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/10/2011lexusct200hfd32opt.jpg

Yw-slayer
February 15th, 2014, 11:17 PM
You think that's bad? Look at the plastic/fake aluminium silver thingie in the BRZ.

Godson
February 16th, 2014, 01:47 PM
I'd take a Volt for flexibility.

If I could pull an all electric I would. But I need the ability to blast out 200+ miles in a day sometimes, and then another 80 the next day.

Crazed_Insanity
February 17th, 2014, 07:28 AM
I dunno, VW 2.0 TFSI cam followers wearing out by 80,000 miles is distressingly common. Some go before the 50k warranty is up, but most will outlast it. It leads to camshaft damage and cylinder head replacement (because VW charges less to replace the head than just the camshafts).

BTW, my bad regarding my sources... it wasn't CR, but JD powers that said Volts, Civics and Corollas are the most dependable 3 yr old cars!

Anyway, I don't think any of the VW cars could match Civics or Corollas' reliability regardless of age, right?

Of course Volts are way more complex than regular Civics and Corollas, so it's way more likely for things to go wrong for Volts in the future..., but considering how good it's holding up, it's probably not a lousy "bet" if one were to purchase one right now. Main issue I have with it is that it's just priced so high! Anyway, I think it's current price probably reflects this...

21Kid
February 17th, 2014, 08:07 AM
I'd do it. :up:
If money wasn't an issue, who wouldn't?Alright, that's one vote. :up:HEY!!! :(




Absolutely -- even here in Wisconsin I've seen a few Teslas out and about (including now in the bitter taint of winter).

A vote against. :up: There are tons of Tesla's in Chicago, FWIW...


Trying to eke out more miles throughout your week without kicking on the onboard gas engine sounds interesting (and potentially addicitive). It is. It's a fun game. :) I did it in our Prius. Well, with regard to MPG, at least. :D :up:

neanderthal
February 17th, 2014, 01:17 PM
I would pick the 500e. My daily commute is 30 miles. I have the E320 for longer trips.


With the Volt, i'd be dragging around the ICE and all the gubbins for it everytime I went anywhere. 9 days out of ten I only drive 30 or so miles. I sometimes drive 40 or 50 (above the Volt's all electric range, but still within the Fiats) but the places i'm going to (Santa Monica etc) usually have great electric car infrastructure. And i'm there for several hours. So even if I went 60 miles one way, I could still recharge.
In fact, at the parking garage I usually use, (http://www.downtownsm.com/parking), Structure 6, there is a whole floor of parking dedicated to just electric cars. There's always electric car parking available there. And that is only one parking garage out of maybe 6, in a range of about 3 miles of each other.

novicius
February 17th, 2014, 01:21 PM
HEY!!! :(
Sorry Kid! I mean one (more) vote. ;) #manhug

Kchrpm
February 17th, 2014, 01:55 PM
I wonder how long public electric car charge ports will remain free. They're free now, right?

Godson
February 17th, 2014, 02:46 PM
With all of this being said. Mom and Dad are currently looking at a C-Max Hybrid.


The Saturn was stolen by one of my brothers shit-head 'friends' so they began looking for a replacement today. Even though they haven't used her car in over a year, they see a need for either 2 vehicles, or a very useable one vehicle. Size for the one vehicle would require either an Escape (not hybrid I know), or a C-Max in size for what we as a family do for hobbies. In other words a Volt and a 500e wouldn't really work out effectively without a little bit of planning and work. 500e would be viable if the garage was cleaned out to allow for charging, Volt wouldn't need that. It those options were chosen, they'd be keeping the 5 series around for longer trips where storage was more usable.

21Kid
February 17th, 2014, 03:46 PM
They're going to buy a car that they won't use for a year at a time???!??? Why not just rent one when they need it?

Godson
February 17th, 2014, 04:48 PM
No, the 5 would essentially be replaced and gone, they'd be back to one vehicle. I don't know why they are both on the idea of a newer vehicle because her is gone. Truth be told, I don't really care. I just want them to make a decent choice no matter what they decide to do. Be it newer car and 5 goes away, sticking with the 5, or buying a cheaper junk car and using the 5 on nice trips and the junker for around town.


Whatever they decide, the need to both like the idea. This much I know. The 5 has 240k miles on it, both enjoy it. Dad is ALWAYS looking at newer vehicles and somewhat materialistic (he denies it). I am not going to get into what is best financially, etc. It's their money.

21Kid
June 18th, 2014, 10:52 AM
Chevrolet Volt Owners Surpass Half a Billion Electric Miles (http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2014/Jun/0617-volt.html)

DETROIT – Since its launch in late 2010, Chevrolet Volt owners have accumulated more than half a billion all-electric miles.

Additionally, based on a General Motors’ study of more than 300 Volts in service in California for more than 30 months, many owners are exceeding the EPA-rated label of 35 miles of EV range per full charge, with about 15 percent surpassing 40 miles of range.

“The fact that most of the folks who purchased the Volt at launch are still enjoying EV range performance on target with when they took delivery is testament to the attention to detail our team paid to delivering on our promise of most people driving all electrically most of the time,” said Pam Fletcher, Chevrolet Volt executive chief engineer.

Volt owners are doing more than 63 percent of their overall driving in EV mode. While the driving range in EV mode can be greatly impacted by temperature, driving technique and terrain, the ease with which Volt drivers are avoiding gasoline use further shows the Volt’s suitability for almost any lifestyle.

Volt owners who charge regularly typically drive more than 970 miles between fill-ups and visit the gas station less than once a month. The 2014 Volt provides owners with fuel economy of EPA estimated 98 MPGe (electric) and 35 city/40 highway on gasoline power, saving $1,450 in annual fuel costs with no change in daily driving habits.

In an independent study conducted between July and December 2013, Volt drivers who participated in the Department of Energy’s EV Project managed by Idaho National Labs totaled 1,198,114 vehicle trips of which 974,692, or 81.4 percent, were completed without the gasoline-powered generator being used.

Since the Volt was launched in 2010, owners have helped to reduce gasoline consumption by more than 25 million gallons, the equivalent of no gasoline being used in Washington D.C. for 2 months.

The Volt continues to attract new buyers to Chevrolet with 69 percent of Volt buyers new to GM. The Toyota Prius is the most frequently traded-in vehicle for a Volt.I think that's what they need to focus on the most. Bringing in new buyers who are intrigued by electric or hybrid vehicles.

21Kid
June 18th, 2014, 11:19 AM
Also, to challenge the image that most associate with GM...

GM Lands Most Models at Top of J.D. Power Quality Survey (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-06-18/gm-lands-most-models-at-top-of-j-dot-d-dot-power-quality-survey)

General Motors Co, dogged by a widening recall crisis, still managed to place the most models atop one of the auto industry’s most closely watched quality measures, with its Chevrolet Malibu besting the Toyota Camry.

GM won six model segments, the most of any automaker, in J.D. Power & Associates’ annual Initial Quality Study released today. Three of GM’s four U.S. brands ranked above industry-average quality and its top-selling Chevy lineup placed sixth overall, trailing only Hyundai and Toyota among mainstream brands. South Korea’s Hyundai Motor Co. and its Kia Motors Corp. affiliate had five models win segments.

GM remained a leader in the study for the second consecutive year, even as Toyota Motor Corp. reasserted itself in the rankings it dominated for most of the 28 years J.D. Power has conducted the consumer research. Toyota’s namesake brand ranked fifth in quality in the survey, up from sixth last year, while its Lexus luxury line ranked third, behind Porsche and Jaguar.

Kchrpm
October 2nd, 2015, 09:53 AM
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/02/2016-chevy-volt-first-drive-review/

This gentleman at Autoblog thinks the new Volt is a big improvement over the previous one and could be a big hit...if GM can figure out how to market and explain it.


Even though I've driven just about every plug-in vehicle available in the US and many that you can't get here, I have yet to be bored with the instant acceleration of an electric vehicle. The new Volt comes in near the top of the pack in the "EV Grin" category. The low center of gravity, the 3,543-pound curb weight, and the enhanced body structure all come together in a fun, punchy compact that lets you throw yourself through winding corners without emitting anything from the tailpipe.


Turns out, the 2016 Volt matches all its hype; it's an efficient, no-compromise EV. My on-road experience tells me that there's real potential for the second-gen Volt to be a big hit and I've now got my reasons why I think all of these changes, updates, and tweaks will turn a lot more people onto the Volt. Of course, I recognize that gas prices remain low right now, a lot of people still don't understand what it means to plug in a car, and GM still hasn't quite figured out how to market this plug-in hybrid, so there are hurdles to overcome. Still, the pieces are in place.

thesameguy
October 2nd, 2015, 10:00 AM
Of course, I recognize that gas prices remain low right now, a lot of people still don't understand what it means to plug in a car,

For reals. Not going to gas stations at all and having a full tank every morning completely is a complete offset for range anxiety. You get over the anxiety pretty quickly, but the fuel at home is always awesome.

Kchrpm
October 2nd, 2015, 10:16 AM
All I ever think about are my day trips to Michigan (2-4 times a year, 520+ miles round trip), which is odd since I go to Dayton (80-100 miles round trip) at least once a month and that would put me at the limit of most non-Teslas if I did any other running around that day (they're in the 100-120 mile range, right?).

Having a "full tank" every morning is nice, but when "full" is only the equivalent of a quarter or third of a tank, it's not as nice as you think. I can think of so many random days where I would have had to plug in a non-Tesla.

I'm far more interested in the reliability benefits than plugging in instead of filling up.

thesameguy
October 2nd, 2015, 10:21 AM
It's exactly as nice as I think. I've been doing it for 20 months.

That once a month drive far scenario is remedied with a call to Enterprise, who I give $25 and they come pick me up in something which I drive and then give back. Or, it's an opportunity to get the ICE weekend fun car some actual miles. The other 29 days out of the month, I'm a big wiener. I mean, winner.

Kchrpm
October 2nd, 2015, 10:23 AM
Well yeah, if you have multiple cars, that's an easy solution :) There are obviously solutions for any limitations involved, EV owners aren't on a 50 mile leash to their home, it's just part of the devil you know vs devil you don't know situation.

Kchrpm
October 2nd, 2015, 11:22 AM
But, back to the original topic, what I've always liked about the Volt is that it has the backup solution built in. You can drive an EV in your commute everyday, and then when you need to go on longer trips it becomes a hybrid.

thesameguy
October 2nd, 2015, 12:15 PM
Agreed. I thought that was going to make the i3 totally rad, but the i3's ICE only adds like 30 miles to the range. Although the Volt doesn't ever get unlimited range, at least it's better than 30 miles. That's just dumb, and I look down my nose at anyone who would buy that option. Including me, if I ever do.

21Kid
October 2nd, 2015, 02:13 PM
I thought the Volt was a great compromise too. I thought it would sell like crazy. Maybe it's too expensive or something? People can't seem to see the long term investment.

Yw-slayer
October 2nd, 2015, 07:20 PM
For most people it's just easier to stick with a known quantity.

JoshInKC
October 2nd, 2015, 08:42 PM
Having looked at them a little bit, i think gm managed to hit a magic number with the volt. The price is a bit too high for most economy-minded people, the features/interior aren't quite good enough for the luxury-minded, and it doesn't have the cachet of either the prius or the leaf for the conspicuously environmental.
Add in the whole 'american cars are unreliable and have bad resale' perception, and i can see why they're having trouble selling what seems like a wonderful solution to the whole range anxiety issue.

novicius
October 3rd, 2015, 08:39 AM
Buy a used Volt from CarMax. #warranty

Kchrpm
September 1st, 2016, 08:20 AM
Volt sales are strong, the new model is proving relatively popular. Up 72% over last year, while the Leaf (which it was consistently compared to in sales despite full electric vs plug-in hybrid) is struggling, down 36%. A sign of preference for one model over the other, plug-in hybrid vs electric on the national scale, or perhaps some Chevy's just throwing money on the hood.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/09/01/volt-leaf-sales-august-2016/

dodint
September 1st, 2016, 10:03 AM
Late to the party but my co-worker has a Volt and loves it. Anecdotal but we were riding back from a hockey rink in 0F weather last year and it was running on battery power which impressed me.

MR2 Fan
September 1st, 2016, 10:24 AM
There's a new gold one where i work, damn handsome looking car