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Godson
March 12th, 2014, 03:17 PM
http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/11/5497638/tesla-sales-banned-in-new-jersey



Wow. That's some crap-tastic work there.

The359
March 12th, 2014, 04:29 PM
Unfortunately they're not the first.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140301/RETAIL/140229855/teslas-state-by-state-battle-with-dealers

MR2 Fan
March 12th, 2014, 05:20 PM
Tesla should just call their products "mobile entertainment units" instead of cars

Crazed_Insanity
March 13th, 2014, 08:18 AM
Yeah, good call. Tesla stock for sure are more like tech stocks rather than traditional car companies. Apple really should just buy Tesla and get Musk as CEO. Then they can be more innovative and be able to sell iCars in Apple stores!

thesameguy
March 13th, 2014, 08:54 AM
I wonder if they could strike a deal with, like, Costco to sell cars and get around the ban...

George
March 13th, 2014, 09:04 AM
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMzYyMzE0NDIwMV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzUwMTcxMQ@@._ V1_SY317_CR5,0,214,317_.jpg

Crazed_Insanity
March 13th, 2014, 09:09 AM
I wonder if they could strike a deal with, like, Costco to sell cars and get around the ban...

I haven't bought a car from Costco or AAA yet, but I'm assuming the process would be similar to buying thru one of those online sites such as carsdirect or true car? And you eventually still need to pick up the car from a tranditional dealership, right?

Perhaps Best Buy would be a good store front. BB is starting to sell solar panels. Why not adding some mobile electrical device such as Model S?

Anyway, if Tesla can just box the car up and ship it, maybe they can just sell it on Amazon? :D

thesameguy
March 13th, 2014, 09:20 AM
You raise a good point. I guess I really don't know what the legal definition of "automobile dealer" in New Jersey is. Based on Jim "Dickhole" Appleton's claims I suspect there is some ordaining process and a lot of chanting, which Costco and Best Buy may not be up for.

Maybe Tesla could start selling stationary fully-enclosed entertainment systems, but then sell an optional "mobility kit" to go with it. Like, they drop a Tesla in your driveway, and the next day someone comes along and bolts some wheels on it.

thesameguy
March 13th, 2014, 09:21 AM
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMzYyMzE0NDIwMV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzUwMTcxMQ@@._ V1_SY317_CR5,0,214,317_.jpg

No doubt. There is something decidedly deja vu about this whole thing. Maybe in 2050 when we're still driving ICEs someone will make a movie about a turn of the century visionary who was shut down by the incumbents.

Freude am Fahren
March 13th, 2014, 10:07 AM
MR2 could be on to something. Can't bike, boats, RV's, etc be bought directly? Why not try to lable as something other than a car?

21Kid
March 13th, 2014, 10:24 AM
I don't know if you'd be able to license it and drive it on public roads then...

Similar to "off road only" vehicles. :|

LHutton
March 13th, 2014, 11:53 AM
New Jersey is the third US state to ban car manufacturers from selling directly to customers
You can never have too many middle-men.:rolleyes:

Jason
March 13th, 2014, 01:16 PM
I wish manufacturers on a whole would sell directly to customers as an option. Build a car online, order it, pick a delivery date, boom.

Drachen596
March 13th, 2014, 01:45 PM
Doesn't Best Buy sell the Brammo Empulse electric motorcycle? I remember reading somewhere that theywere going to.

thesameguy
March 13th, 2014, 02:22 PM
I wish manufacturers on a whole would sell directly to customers as an option. Build a car online, order it, pick a delivery date, boom.

I seem to recall someone talking about doing just that... Scion maybe? I'm betting NJ shut 'em down!

Freude am Fahren
March 13th, 2014, 03:54 PM
What's the situation in other countries? Do they all use dealers too, or do manufacturers sell directly some places?

IMOA
March 14th, 2014, 01:59 AM
Mixed model in Aus. Some manufacturers sell directly but this is usually through a fully owned dealership. BRZ was an interesting one, this is only sold via the web as Subaru didn't want them in dealerships.

Crazed_Insanity
March 14th, 2014, 09:13 AM
Huh? What's the reason for Subaru to exclude the BRZ from showing up in their dealerships over there?

Dicknose
March 14th, 2014, 04:08 PM
Very limited stock was probably the main reason.
There was a 6 month waiting list.

IMOA
March 14th, 2014, 05:44 PM
Nah, it was more ~12 years of having an exclusively AWD line-up being the centrepoint of their marketing and then having a RWD lob up and not knowing what to do with it. It was a bit bizarre to be honest and Toyota were taking orders and delivering cars before subaru even confirmed that they would sell the BRZ in Aus.

thesameguy
March 14th, 2014, 08:17 PM
That pretty much describes Subaru here, too, so I'm not sure what is different. The 1st gen Impreza was the last two wheel drive Subaru sold in America. Since Y2K (if not slightly before - I think maybe '98) Subaru has been exclusively AWD.

IMOA
March 14th, 2014, 08:53 PM
Subaru US seemed to embrace the car though, not sure why subaru aus got so weird about it but there was months and looking at their feet and going umm every time someone asked them if they were going to sell it. Most people got jack of it in the end and just bought the Toyota.

SkylineObsession
March 15th, 2014, 01:59 PM
That is shocking news about the Tesla.










Well, someone had to.

Crazed_Insanity
March 17th, 2014, 09:30 AM
I think the real Tesla was screwed over in NY, not NJ. Maybe Musk should rename the company to Edison anyway? ;) Whatever, I do hope this modern day Tesla will eventually make it!

Anyway, back to the BRZ in Australia..., so does that mean you have to take it to a Toyota dealer to have it serviced? I kinda doubt that. Most likely it's probably like what DN said that Subaru just don't have that many cars for all the dealers?

IMOA
March 17th, 2014, 09:45 PM
Cars go to Subaru for servicing but in terms of supply Subaru were a bit better than Toyota, they got less cars but they've also got a much smaller network. And while the cars are ordered online they are still delivered through the dealer network.

In effect Subaru aren't actively selling the BRZ in Australia, they are making it available for sale but not actually selling it.

Random
April 9th, 2014, 06:39 PM
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/when-life-gives-you-lemons



Another issue was that the car's fuse blew on numerous occasions. Each time, our engineers explored all possible explanations and were never able to find anything wrong with the car. Still, just to be sure, we replaced several parts that could have been related to the alleged problem – all at no expense to the customer. When the fuse kept blowing despite the new parts, and faced with no diagnosis showing anything wrong with the car, the engineers were moved to consider the possibility that the fuse had been tampered with. After investigating, they determined that the car's front trunk had been opened immediately before the fuse failure on each of these occasions. (The fuse is accessed through the front trunk.) Ultimately, Tesla service applied non-tamper tape to the fuse switch. From that point on, the fuse performed flawlessly.


Haha, wow. :smh:

MR2 Fan
June 12th, 2014, 03:13 PM
Elon Musk/Tesla released an important news story and is trolling hard on Twitter to go with it!

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you



Tesla Motors ✔ @TeslaMotors

For questions regarding our blog post headline: somebody set up us the bomb.

2:15 PM - 12 Jun 2014


Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk

Apparently, lots of confused media inquiries about blog title. Look, we just to make sure they don't set us up the bomb.

6:57 PM - 12 Jun 2014

thesameguy
June 12th, 2014, 03:21 PM
Wow.

Yw-slayer
June 12th, 2014, 06:55 PM
FOR GREAT JUSTICE

WOW MUCH IMPRESS

MANY PATENT

AMIRITE

Godson
June 12th, 2014, 07:38 PM
Well done sir. Well Done.

Sad, little man
June 12th, 2014, 08:08 PM
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/when-life-gives-you-lemons



Haha, wow. :smh:

Hey, tampering with your car and getting it bought back as a lemon is so much easier than admitting you bought a car you didn't want.

21Kid
June 13th, 2014, 04:45 AM
Tesla open-sources all its patents (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/06/12/tesla-open-source-patents/)

In the statement, Musk also philosophizes about patents in general. When he was younger, he thought they were valuable to protect a business. Today, "they serve merely to stifle progress, entrench the positions of giant corporations and enrich those in the legal profession, rather than the actual inventors." Even his company SpaceX avoids patents, reportedly to protect its ideas. Scroll down to read the entire impassioned announcement, titled All Our Patents Are Belong to You.

:D Bravo!!!

Crazed_Insanity
June 13th, 2014, 06:51 AM
No way Apple's gonna hire Elon Musk as the CEO and buy Tesla as the next new iCar and SpaceX as the iRocket now. ;)

Lawyers must not like Elon very much. Imagine if Apple and Google opened up like this..., I guess if you're in the lead and you know that you'll stay in the lead, it probably doesn't make too much sense worrying about others infringing upon your patents. Might as well utilize and focus all your resources to continue to stay in the lead.

Bravo, Mr. Musk! :up:

FaultyMario
June 13th, 2014, 08:15 AM
Wasn't that the whole point of buying (and then unloading) Motorola?

Crazed_Insanity
June 13th, 2014, 09:19 AM
I think Google was primarily interested only in Motorola's patents, right? What would be the point for Apple to get Tesla's or SpaceX's patents? Further, even if they do find those patents attractive, why would you hire a CEO who'd end up open source everything in your company? Apple traditionally hasn't been a very open sourcy company. Can't even open its devices up to change out the battery! Do you get my point that although I think Apple needs leadership like Musk, but their philosophies are just too contradicting?

Personally, I think Elon Musk is pretty awesome both with his philosophy and what he has managed to accomplished..., hope his companies will continue to innovate and change the world for the better.

thesameguy
June 13th, 2014, 10:41 AM
Tough to say what a company like Google is really up to. Obviously there is "Do no evil" but these days that seems to be more hype than promise. Personally, my belief is that Google and, say, Apple are probably equally evil, but because they have such incredibly different revenue models Google can do more things that appear less evil than Apple. Nobody pays Google anything, they make all their money from consumers passively. Nobody writes a check to Google. it makes very good sense for them to invent or buy a bunch of great technology and then give it away. The more people who use their stuff the more money they make.

Tesla doesn't really have the same position. They're selling a product. Sure, if more people make battery powered cars the technology will get better and cheaper faster, but that isn't a sole benefit to Tesla the same way more people using Android is a sole benefit to Google. I think Musk's move demonstrates not only a commitment to the technology (and maybe thus the planet) but also a confidence in his ability to meet his goals even when his company has no secret sauce. That's neat. Of course, maybe Tesla doesn't have any patents worth having and they just gave away a bunch of crap... time will tell.

I'm inclined to believe that Musk is more of a Warren Buffet or, heh, Nikola Tesla than a Steve Jobs, though, just based on his actions. He strikes me as a guy who is more interested in doing neat stuff than being king of the world.

Crazed_Insanity
June 13th, 2014, 11:47 AM
If we have to find a selfish motive for Musk, it could be that he wants to set the 'standard' for all future EVs. If that standard is set, people will be buying his batteries and his hardware/software... and against competitors who build their own, he will still be able to sell these things cheaper than others because he is way more ahead of the game than other people. Of course, if the Chinese get a hold of his tech... with factories that don't have to worry about any sort of environmental restrictions, perhaps eventually the Chinese will be able to build more affordable Tesla like cars. Actually for a nation who doesn't really respect intellectual property anyway, suing them for patent infringement can only be a waste of time and resources anyway... so perhaps it'd be more productive for Tesla to continue work on next generation of EVs.

Anyway, yeah, considering Musk is offering free charges to his customers and now giving away patents... he is acting more and more like Tesla. However, based on past history, Tesla was not rewarded appropriately though and still eventually crushed by bankers. Anyway, Musk is probably no Tesla in terms of intellect, but at least he doesn't have to rely on any evil bankers to finance his projects. So maybe he won't suffer the same fate as Tesla.

The only thing I don't like about Musk so far is that his marriages suffered because of his ventures. For sure he doesn't have enough time for his wives and kids, but perhaps that's the price to be paid for having to awesome companies that many predict would have failed long ago... I really hope he'll continue on with his vision and continue to have success. I also hope I can work for him someday... whether rockets or cars, doesn't matter! I love both! ;)

thesameguy
June 13th, 2014, 12:00 PM
But that's exactly it - if he is giving away his patents, then people won't need to buy his batteries and chargers. Anyone will be free to not only use the technology he's made thus far, but also brand it as their own and potentially improve it. I think that speaks volumes about his confidence in his engineering and his approach to engineering in general - it's statement to the effect of, "I think this is the best it can be and you're going to want to use it, but if you can improve upon it we'll all benefit so go ahead." That is a refreshing approach, reminiscent of Google in the early days.

Yeah, his home life is a disaster, but the dude is a bazillionaire and a rockstar technologist and now an EV benefactor. You can't be all things to all people and I'm a believer that doing the right thing globally is more important than doing the right thing in your house. That's not an excuse to be a cockbag, but if it's one or the other helping humanity seems somewhat more important.

IMOA
June 13th, 2014, 06:55 PM
Selfish motive is simple, Tesla are trying to grow the market. They are far and away the leaders in the electric vehicle space, it's daylight 2nd, 3rd and 4th and that includes the big manufacturers. What they want is more people selling cars in this space which will increase acceptance of electric vehicles and accelerate building the infrastructure required to support it which will in turn lead to a massive increase in their sales. I think it's a good play, establish yourself as the market leader, massively expand your market and given how many vehicles are produced and how few of them are electric there's an enormous potential for expansion.


Tough to say what a company like Google is really up to. Obviously there is "Do no evil" but these days that seems to be more hype than promise. Personally, my belief is that Google and, say, Apple are probably equally evil, but because they have such incredibly different revenue models Google can do more things that appear less evil than Apple. Nobody pays Google anything, they make all their money from consumers passively.

To me the pricing model makes Google seem far more evil. Apple's customers are consumers who are after a certain degree of privacy so there is a direct monetary incentive for Apple to protect it. Google's customers are businesses who want to breech an individuals privacy so there is a direct monetary incentive for them not to protect an individuals privacy. For me that makes Google more 'evil'.

Dicknose
June 13th, 2014, 07:56 PM
Agree with IMOA on the logic. Was going to post the same.
How many people would think "if electric cars are that good, why isn't everyone making them?"
So what if your market share drops from 90% to 50% if the market is 10 times bigger, you are still ahead.

One other thing, opening up patents doesn't mean others can make the stuff easily.
You might still have people buy your technology knowing you won't mark it up with license costs.

As for Google, they also play lose and free with tax. Maybe not evil, but certainly not good (ie socially responsible)

thesameguy
June 13th, 2014, 08:20 PM
To me the pricing model makes Google seem far more evil. Apple's customers are consumers who are after a certain degree of privacy so there is a direct monetary incentive for Apple to protect it. Google's customers are businesses who want to breech an individuals privacy so there is a direct monetary incentive for them not to protect an individuals privacy. For me that makes Google more 'evil'.

Well, Google never hides from the consumer what they are doing - they make it clear in multiple ways that your data is being collected. They generally open their standards, expose their APIs, allow their software and services to run anywhere someone can make it run, and in several circumstances have released to the public or for the public items of provable worth. Apple runs a business largely predicated on trivial inventions defended with a giant legal team, releases and insists on proprietary equipment when the remainder of the world shares a common standard, and never contributes through any way other than licensing to the state of public domain technology. Google may share your personal information, but generally speaking Google shares everything with everyone. Apple does nothing but protect its massive widget business. It doesn't make sense to speculate on the possibilities of reality, but Google's philosophy is a hell of a lot more appealing than Apple's, at least to me.

IMOA
June 13th, 2014, 11:52 PM
Well, Google never hides from the consumer what they are doing

Can't be arsed doing the line by line point out the complete bollocks in your post thing so I'll just start with your first assertion

http://www.wired.com/2012/05/google-wifi-fcc-investigation/

Yw-slayer
June 14th, 2014, 03:20 AM
ANYWAY, Teslas are great cars. I'm eagerly awaiting details of the Model X.

thesameguy
June 14th, 2014, 08:25 AM
Can't be arsed doing the line by line point out the complete bollocks in your post thing so I'll just start with your first assertion

http://www.wired.com/2012/05/google-wifi-fcc-investigation/

Re-read that article, up to and including the point where Google voluntarily forwarded the unredacted version of the entire report to the LA Times, and Engineer Doe's defensible and reasonable position that the amount of unsecured wifi data collected as a motor vehicle drives into and out of a coverage area would be no more useful than the scan of other publicly obvious wifi data itself. Google didn't collect any data that any other individual or group couldn't collect - their actions are in no way different than anyone walking around recording video on a cell phone and getting images of people or copies of their conversations. If you want cuddle up with Judge Ware and make a distinction between publicly accessible wifi data and publicly accessible audio, video, and radio data then go right ahead. As far as I'm concerned - and remember I'm the guy who says don't use Facebook and don't use Google services due to privacy concerns - drawing that line is splitting hairs. Suggesting that the transmission method is somehow integral to the legally-defined privacy of the communication is, as you say, bollocks.

IMOA
June 14th, 2014, 07:21 PM
Thats not how I read it but we're way off topic so I'll leave it here

Yw-slayer
June 14th, 2014, 11:40 PM
Get Russ to separate this part of the thread from the Tesla stuff?

Crazed_Insanity
June 16th, 2014, 08:25 AM
Hopefully Tesla will learn to do better than Google. Considering its reach, Google will for sure have a harder time to avoid doing evil to the world. ;) I don't think Musk really wants complete world domination. He just wants to build things that don't quite exist yet and then build it better than everyone else...

Anyway, I hope someday Tesla can eventually get Model E into production without Ford lawyers getting in their way. With those 3 models, I think that should be a pretty complete and awesome lineup. ;)

21Kid
June 17th, 2014, 05:18 AM
If we have to find a selfish motive for Musk, it could be that he wants to set the 'standard' for all future EVs. If that standard is set, people will be buying his batteries and his hardware/software... Seriously?!? :smh: That's the exact opposite of what he's doing.



But that's exactly it - if he is giving away his patents, then people won't need to buy his batteries and chargers. Anyone will be free to not only use the technology he's made thus far, but also brand it as their own and potentially improve it. I think that speaks volumes about his confidence in his engineering and his approach to engineering in general - it's statement to the effect of, "I think this is the best it can be and you're going to want to use it, but if you can improve upon it we'll all benefit so go ahead." That is a refreshing approach, reminiscent of Google in the early days.Precisely.



Yeah, his home life is a disaster, but the dude is a bazillionaire and a rockstar technologist and now an EV benefactor. You can't be all things to all people and I'm a believer that doing the right thing globally is more important than doing the right thing in your house. That's not an excuse to be a cockbag, but if it's one or the other helping humanity seems somewhat more important. Tony Stark. :lol:

Godson
June 17th, 2014, 06:58 AM
Nice analogy...

Crazed_Insanity
June 17th, 2014, 07:24 AM
He is the closest thing to being a real life Iron Man! Who knows, maybe SpaceX will end up developing rockets small enough for personal transport! ;)

21Kid
August 29th, 2014, 08:37 AM
I thought we had a generic Tesla thread... Must have been at that other place. ;)

Anyway, more good news for Tesla.
Tesla Model S now the least-stolen car in the US (http://green.autoblog.com/2014/08/28/tesla-model-s-now-the-least-stolen-car-in-the-us/)

TheBenior
August 29th, 2014, 05:25 PM
No market for used parts, easily tracked, and owned by rich people leads to low thefts? No shocker there.

Drachen596
August 29th, 2014, 08:06 PM
since this started off as being unable to buy without a dealer...

i saw a tv ad somewhere the other day about ordering a car online and having it delivered to your door. apparently an online only dealer is legal but not the manufacturer selling directly to customers. stupid stupid stupid. seems like every other industry will let you do it though, mattress factory here in town has a store AT the factory..

MR2 Fan
October 10th, 2014, 04:13 AM
Tesla unveils the D: 2 motor AWD, 0-60 in 3.2 seconds and autonomous driving

http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/10/autos/tesla-model-s-dual-motor/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

21Kid
October 10th, 2014, 06:26 AM
Tesla unveils the D: 2 motor AWD, 0-60 in 3.2 seconds and autonomous driving

http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/10/autos/tesla-model-s-dual-motor/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Phrasing! :lol:

The letter “D” stands for the new model’s dual-motor system, which will power the front wheels and give the car a significant boost in speed. It will match the 3.2 second 0 to 60 mph time of the McLaren F1, one of the fastest cars ever made. And it will be even more efficient than the current, already terrific, Model S.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/264/200/acb.jpg

MR2 Fan
October 10th, 2014, 06:45 AM
I wonder what the weight difference is

novicius
October 10th, 2014, 06:57 AM
The letter “D” stands for the new model’s dual-motor system, which will power the front wheels and give the car a significant boost in speed. It will match the 3.2 second 0 to 60 mph time of the McLaren F1, one of the fastest cars ever made. And it will be even more efficient than the current, already terrific, Model S.
Great launch but runs out of steam (relatively) quickly, as its quarter-mile time is high 11's/low 12's.

Musk was saying how the D is quicker than the Hellcat Charger -- uh, you're gonna get the Charger off the line but after the first 60' it's going to be all-Hellcat. :twisted:

21Kid
October 10th, 2014, 07:18 AM
But, the Hellcat isn't a 4-door family car that can drive itself either. ;)

The D can also park itself and, when on private property, an owner will be able to summon the car.
The car will also be able to connect with the owner's calendar so that it can be ready when needed.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080209010753/knightrider/en/images/9/96/KITT2000.jpg

We should probably change the name of this thread now also. :random: It's not really relevant any more.

MR2 Fan
October 10th, 2014, 08:37 AM
We should probably change the name of this thread now also. :random: It's not really relevant any more.

Agreed

Freude am Fahren
October 10th, 2014, 10:59 AM
It will match the 3.2 second 0 to 60 mph time of the McLaren F1, one of the fastest cars ever made. And it will be even more efficient than the current, already terrific, Model S.
Certainly a cool little anecdote, but let's face it, 3.0 or less is the real performance number now for 0-60 (911 Turbo/GT3, GTR, Z06, Hellcat?). But still, damn.


I wonder what the weight difference is
+291 lbs for the P85D. -10 mile range. Non P models actually gain range and add a bit less weight


Great launch but runs out of steam (relatively) quickly, as its quarter-mile time is high 11's/low 12's.

Musk was saying how the D is quicker than the Hellcat Charger -- uh, you're gonna get the Charger off the line but after the first 60' it's going to be all-Hellcat. :twisted:

High 11's... meh. :lol:



But, the Hellcat isn't a 4-door family car that can drive itself either. ;)
Half-right ;)

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/crop/779x517+325+181/resize/628x417!/format/jpg/quality/85/http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/6751038560b72c67a47e1e381329aa08/200582848/hellcat.jpg

novicius
October 10th, 2014, 11:05 AM
On stickier tires, the Hellcat Charger is going to turn 10's in the quarter, just like the equal weight Hellcat Challengers.

overpowered
October 10th, 2014, 11:32 AM
We should probably change the name of this thread now also. :random: It's not really relevant any more.Agreed.
Great launch but runs out of steam (relatively) quickly, as its quarter-mile time is high 11's/low 12's.
High 11's... meh. :lol::lol:

MR2 Fan
October 10th, 2014, 12:34 PM
one of the crazy things I'd do if I was filthy rich is take one of the new models, and strip out as much weight as possible....just to see the performance difference :)

novicius
October 10th, 2014, 01:04 PM
Low 11's... meh. :lol:
This comment is both nonsensical and factually incorrect in reference to either car. #doesnotcompute

Freude am Fahren
October 10th, 2014, 03:25 PM
Mistake, fixed. First wrote Low 12's, meh, then changed it, but only half of it.

Yw-slayer
October 10th, 2014, 04:22 PM
Not a TEN SECOND CAR, BRO

thesameguy
October 10th, 2014, 04:35 PM
It sounds like luxury to be able to live your life over 12 instead of 10 seconds or less.

overpowered
October 16th, 2014, 02:15 PM
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1094966_michigan-car-dealers-slip-one-over-on-tesla-ban-direct-sales

Drachen596
October 16th, 2014, 11:53 PM
i thought the article said that the only self driving the Tesla does right now is that auto parallel parking. the other part was an update they were still working on.

21Kid
October 17th, 2014, 07:50 AM
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1094966_michigan-car-dealers-slip-one-over-on-tesla-ban-direct-sales

We just changed the title and now we need to change it back? :(

KillerB
October 18th, 2014, 09:13 AM
My director at work has one of these. I got to ride in it a short way last week. Not really far enough to form any solid impressions, other than the sound wide tires make when the steering wheel is turned and the car is stationary is really damn loud when there's no other sound to drown it out!

Yw-slayer
October 18th, 2014, 05:52 PM
#firstworldproblems amirite

overpowered
October 21st, 2014, 10:48 PM
http://blog.caranddriver.com/unplugged-michigan-governor-signs-gm-supported-anti-tesla-bill-into-law/

thesameguy
October 22nd, 2014, 09:10 AM
Sadly, as someone who won't afford a Tesla, doesn't live in Michigan, and probably wouldn't buy a new car anyway, I find it hard to care about any of this. The plights of the wealthy in foreign states really don't raise my ire.

Crazed_Insanity
October 22nd, 2014, 11:38 AM
Couldn't the wealthy just buy a Tesla from another state?

MR2 Fan
October 22nd, 2014, 02:58 PM
Couldn't the wealthy just buy a Tesla from another state?

Yes, I think part of it is just the principle of the whole thing...craziness that there's laws basically REQUIRING a middle-man to sell an item

Drachen596
October 22nd, 2014, 10:15 PM
but in the case of Michigan its that they changed a single word in the bill(or added) and that's what is going to stop Tesla there. the articles i've read all seem to say that the wording would actually prevent Tesla from opening a factory owned dealer there as an alternative to selling online or such.

thesameguy
October 22nd, 2014, 11:13 PM
I believe that's the case - the bill prevents any manufacturer to consumer relationship - there has to be an independent dealer in the middle.

It's unclear who Michigan thinks they're helping or hurting here. Rich people are not going to let state line get in the way of what they want - Michigan isn't a terribly large state anyway. And the bill doesn't prevent Tesla from opening a place where Ss are services, so it's not like there are actual roadblocks to owning a Tesla, just minor ones in buying one.

Random
November 3rd, 2014, 10:04 AM
First Test of the new AWD P85, by Motor Trend: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1411_2015_tesla_model_s_p85d_first_test/

TL;DR: Yeehaw! :D

thesameguy
November 3rd, 2014, 10:31 AM
Rad.

21Kid
November 3rd, 2014, 02:37 PM
:drool:

Sad, little man
November 3rd, 2014, 05:55 PM
I believe that's the case - the bill prevents any manufacturer to consumer relationship - there has to be an independent dealer in the middle.

It's unclear who Michigan thinks they're helping or hurting here. Rich people are not going to let state line get in the way of what they want - Michigan isn't a terribly large state anyway. And the bill doesn't prevent Tesla from opening a place where Ss are services, so it's not like there are actual roadblocks to owning a Tesla, just minor ones in buying one.
The argument from the lobby representing dealers is that allowing multiple independently owned dealers sell the car as opposed to just manufacturer owned dealers is that it encourages competition between dealers, which in turn gives customers a lower price.

Of course, this argument is fucking stupid since essentially all dealers are doing is competing to see who can put the smallest markup on the price that the manufacturer could sell directly to customers for.

It's like banning people from visiting apple orchards and paying the farmers directly for the ability to pick their own apples, and then claiming that since there are multiple different third party fruit vendors, customers are somehow getting a better price that way. :rolleyes:

Godson
November 3rd, 2014, 07:41 PM
I'd rock that.

21Kid
November 4th, 2014, 01:47 PM
Their argument is that a middleman makes something cheaper? :lol:

thesameguy
November 4th, 2014, 03:04 PM
Somewhere there is a "sell it a little bit at a time" joke in there, but it's not coming to me.

Drachen596
November 4th, 2014, 11:42 PM
thats basically the argument.. that and somehow having a middleman protects the customer as well.

Sad, little man
November 5th, 2014, 02:39 AM
Well, actually the argument is that having multiple middlemen somehow protects the customer. Not just one middleman.

But yeah, basically.

Dicknose
November 6th, 2014, 01:22 PM
Meanwhile in Australia

Looks like they are opening a show room.
This is near my work
915

Crazed_Insanity
November 7th, 2014, 07:18 AM
Just like iphones/ipads can be sold in apple stores or at&t stores... I think Tesla should just try to sell their vehicles as electronic devices. Besides selling online or in their showrooms, they also should utilize Best Buy and Costco or whatever retail stores as their 'middlemen' to satisfy that 'requirement'. Maybe even AT&T stores... sign a 2 yr contract and you get a bit of discount with your Tesla tablet with wheels! ;)

Sad, little man
November 7th, 2014, 12:14 PM
Except, you know, that wouldn't work.

Drachen596
November 7th, 2014, 12:49 PM
Doesnt or didnt best buy sell the Brammo elertic motorcycle?

The359
December 13th, 2014, 01:26 AM
So the other day I was driving past a Model S P85 on the highway and noticed two things wrong with it, might have been having electrical gremlins. The first, the rear door handles were stuck out while the front handles were flush. Second, the headlights came on from the car driving under a highway bridge at ~65mph. Seems a bit overly sensitive for something like that to be triggered.

thesameguy
December 13th, 2014, 10:25 AM
The CTS-V had sensitive auto headlights like that. Drove me up the wall so I turned them off.

Crazed_Insanity
December 15th, 2014, 09:45 AM
Our Santa Fe has a bit of delay... so if the overpass is short or if I go thru it fast enough, it won't trigger the headlights to turn on. If it's a long tunnel or if I get stuck under it for a while waiting for traffic light, then it'll turn itself on. Once in broad daylight, after a bit of delay, it'll again turn off. I thought it's a cool feature... that I never have to worry about turning the head light on or off ever again! ;)

As for Model S's door handle... I think Tesla is just asking for trouble. Not sure if it'll really gain all that much aerodynamically, but chances of glitches happening is just too great. It's one thing to have our computer or phone freeze up once in a while, but to have a door opener freeze up won't be fun... And batteries won't ever die for Model S? Seems more like it's for gimmick rather than serving a real purpose.

Similarly with the Model X gull wing doors. Introducing unnecessary complexity IMHO. It's also probably what's causing their production delays.

overpowered
December 15th, 2014, 05:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsI_3wR4N28


I got a chance to drag race a 691-hp Tesla Model S P85D against a Ferrari and a Lamborghini today, and this is what it felt like:
First impressions: The acceleration is ridiculous. I daily drive an Aventador, and I thought I got used to fast accelerations. But no, the Tesla Model S P85D hauled some serious ass. As a passenger, you do not get a chance to get ready for it at all. My internal organs were glued to the back of my body. I've done the P85+ test drive before, and it was already pretty fast. But this P85D is on a whole other level.

We pitted the car's acceleration against other cars. It pretty much beat everything at the car show (Ferraris and R8s didn't stand a chance). So I had to pit it against my Aventador, which does 0-60 in 2.8-2.9 seconds. Tesla P85D does it in 3.1-3.2 seconds. Right off the bat, the Tesla got ahead. It gets a good maybe half a car length ahead before the Aventador grips fully and starts hauling. So we decided to make it fairer and only accelerate the Tesla when the Aventador grips and starts moving. That's when we truly got both cars to start moving at roughly the same time.

Drag Race Results (Note: This was completely casual and not in anyway in ideal, scientific conditions - the Aventador was not doing launch control): The Tesla pulled ahead in the beginning by about the hood length. But Tesla never got a chance to pull away. Instead, the Aventador kept up and was slowly cutting the difference between them with each gear shift. By the 50-60 mph, the Aventador caught up. By the 85 mph mark, the Aventador was half a car length ahead and the Tesla was only at 70-75 mph. So from around 0-60, the Aventador and Tesla P85D were pretty much neck and neck. But from 0-30 or so... the Tesla beat the Aventador. This gives you a general idea of how ridiculously fast the P85D is at the jump.

More observation: It feels different as a driver. Since I can anticipate the acceleration, I don't get the same scare/thrill that I get as a passenger. It's to a point where I actually enjoyed being a passenger rather than a driver. But after about a dozen of those 0-60 accelerations, I felt like I had to puke - probably the first time I felt this way in many years. It was a different feeling than what I got from an internal combustion engine car, because when you hear the engine roar, you can kind of anticipate the acceleration that comes after it. But since the Tesla is silent, there's no warning. I think I almost got a concussion from my head suddenly banging into the headrest because of how little anticipation the car gives you. At one point I was in mid-sentence when my driver floored it, and I had trouble getting the words out of my mouth. It really takes your breath away (literally). The acceleration is at the border between fun and frightening.

Needless to say, I'm having one delivered to me on Christmas.

MR2 Fan
December 15th, 2014, 05:26 PM
They're on Disney World property...they should be careful or they'll end up in Disney jail

Edit: that whirring sound....I KNOW What I'd do if I owned that Tesla, I'd put a big arc reactor on the frunk :hard:

overpowered
December 20th, 2014, 10:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faHIEpZf4LE

Drachen596
March 1st, 2015, 11:29 PM
Saw one of these in a Youtube video from a guy in London.

Something that had never really occurred to me is that an Electric car would be much easier to swap RHD and LHD in because you're not working around the engine and its intake and exhaust systems.

Freude am Fahren
March 19th, 2015, 08:37 AM
Question:

Despite the failure of Fisker, the idea of making the roof out of solar panels seems like a good one. I wonder why Tesla hasn't tried it. Cost? Effectiveness? With the announcement today that their cure for range anxiety is just an upgraded nav system that find charging stations for you, it got me thinking.

Lets assume you're driving a full charge's worth in the sun, how much more range could you get from about 15-20 sq ft. of solar panels?

Kchrpm
March 19th, 2015, 08:51 AM
Toyota has put solar panels on the roofs of a Prius before. Apparently it only generated enough power to drive a fan to vent out hot air.

thesameguy
March 19th, 2015, 09:53 AM
Audi did the same on the A8. Saab did it on a prototype in the '80s. A roof-sized solor panel would generate less than 100w (very expensive, efficient panels), not enough to do anything useful with.

Edit: http://www.saabplanet.com/back-to-the-future-saab-ev-1-prototype/

heh.

21Kid
March 20th, 2015, 10:11 AM
Governor Christie has signed into law a bill that allows Tesla to sell directly to its customers in the state, bypassing the auto dealers that have been fighting so hard to block the company all around the US (for example, see Texas, Ohio, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, etc). Of course, there are some strings attached: the Californian EV maker can only open a total of 4 direct sale stores and has to operate at least 1 service center in the state. But that's a big step forward, and with 4 stores, Tesla can cover most of the population centers easily.

Drachen596
March 20th, 2015, 04:31 PM
the catch is 4 stores and a service location?

that kind of catch almost sounds like Tesla got asked "hey.. whats the minimum you plan on opening here?"

21Kid
March 25th, 2015, 09:53 AM
To start with... I'm sure that will expand in the future.

overpowered
May 14th, 2015, 06:10 PM
The FTC is on the side of Tesla:

http://techdrive.co/FTC-Tesla

Drachen596
May 14th, 2015, 08:22 PM
can the FTC nullify the law requiring a dealership at the state level if they deem it illegal in some way?

overpowered
June 8th, 2015, 09:42 AM
Mercedes copies Tesla:

http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/daimler-enters-energy-storage-market-with-mercedes-benz-branded-batteries--_100019715/#axzz3cUC7JCDY

TheBenior
June 8th, 2015, 02:24 PM
With Germany's turn against nuclear and their acceptance of solar power, it makes a lot of sense for a domestic company to do so.

If a subsidiary of MB wasn't doing it, I'm sure some other company would get government subsidies to do so.

Crazed_Insanity
June 9th, 2015, 10:58 AM
I really don't understand why the need for lithium ion batteries for residential applications. Why can't we go with cheaper alternatives for home use? Just because governments' subsidizing it doesn't mean we should be wasteful! :p

BTW, I'm having doubts about Elon Musk's Solar City. Recently a sales rep at best buy wanted me to sign up for solar at home... so I did. She seemed friendly enough and solar does make sense and it'll cost me nothing. Just a free in home consultation/estimate. So later on, the guy they sent to our house deemed that it probably won't work out because of a big tree that casts a huge shade on most part of our house. The only always sunny part of the roof is over our garage, but they have policy against installing panels over garages for some reason. Okay. Whatever. Thanks for coming.

Later on, I continued to receive calls from Solar City asking me if I'm interested in solar power?

Hello? You rejected my house remember? You guys kept my info and don't keep track of which houses you have visited?

Anyway, I guess Elon Musk is just too busy running SpaceX and Tesla.

Random
June 10th, 2015, 09:16 AM
We've had the local solar places forget that they already talked to us as well. I guess their marketing databases aren't very well set up.

Crazed_Insanity
June 10th, 2015, 10:06 AM
Yeah, I guess it's 'normal' that departments within companies don't really talk to each other. The most amazing experience I had was at my local Hyundai dealership... somebody called me and ask me if I'm interested in some special maintenance deal they're having and would I like to make an appointment? And I had to tell her... thanks for letting me know, but no thanks because my car is currently being serviced at your dealership! :p

Anyway, it's just that I was expecting better from Elon Musk. Like I said, he's probably just too busy making rockets and cars and couldn't focus too much on solar panels...

21Kid
July 17th, 2015, 11:45 AM
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--Vj_GtoSf--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/1344920183736282983.jpg

Cam
July 18th, 2015, 04:41 AM
http://i.stack.imgur.com/mNA4dm.jpg

MR2 Fan
July 18th, 2015, 07:04 AM
it would be awesome if Tesla did some kind of "gone to plaid" video...I wouldn't put it past Elon Musk.

21Kid
July 20th, 2015, 10:56 AM
Next Tesla Roadster coming in 4 years, will go plaid (http://www.autoblog.com/2015/07/18/next-tesla-roadster-four-years-maximum-plaid/)

Buried in the press release for Tesla's humorously named Ludicrous upgrade for certain Model S sedans is a short blurb about the next Roadster. "There is of course one speed faster than ludicrous, but that is reserved for the next generation Roadster in 4 years: maximum plaid.":lol: I <3 Musk.

MR2 Fan
July 20th, 2015, 06:50 PM
there we go!

overpowered
July 20th, 2015, 08:18 PM
Good news. I was sad that the roadster got discontinued, but I understood why. Glad to see it coming back.

MR2 Fan
August 6th, 2015, 10:42 AM
This is....um...(charger prototype)

https://twitter.com/TeslaMotors/status/629305813912326146

Mr Wonder
August 6th, 2015, 11:19 AM
Holy shit! That is how skynet is going to recharge terminators. :eek:

Godson
August 6th, 2015, 01:36 PM
Buddy posted about that before Tesla made the video. Hehe

overpowered
August 17th, 2015, 10:41 PM
Tesla so safe it broke the crash test equipment

http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/tesla-so-safe-it-broke-the-crash-test-equipment-22541#.VdLTG_lVhBf

21Kid
August 18th, 2015, 07:33 AM
We already knew that it was the safest car around.

21 August 2013 by Richard Read · Car Connection

overpowered
September 22nd, 2015, 10:42 PM
Model 3

https://www.minds.com/blog/view/443508465227272192/tesla039s-model-iii-goes-200-miles-per-charge-and-costs-35000

Dicknose
September 22nd, 2015, 11:36 PM
Not what I want (which is an updated/cheaper Roadster or sporty equiv) but I can see that being a game changer.
Mid price car with the Tesla goodness, rather than a luxury car (or at least luxury price)

overpowered
September 29th, 2015, 09:00 PM
Model X

http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx

Yw-slayer
September 29th, 2015, 10:41 PM
Waiting for them to post dimensions. I'm getting one if it's not too far off the S-Max in terms of width.

LHutton
September 30th, 2015, 02:25 AM
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/30/9421719/tesla-model-x-bioweapon-defense-mode-button


Tesla's new Model X has a 'bioweapon defense mode' button

21Kid
September 30th, 2015, 05:21 AM
Waiting for them to post dimensions. I'm getting one if it's not too far off the S-Max in terms of width.

Nice! :D:up:

Yw-slayer
September 30th, 2015, 06:58 AM
Well, with an EV I don't have to pay the 100% or more tax that I have to pay on a petrol car. For the same money I can buy a E250 (and look like a clueless sheep) or a Model S/X. It's a no-brainer.

thesameguy
September 30th, 2015, 08:19 AM
I am strongly considering one as well... they should be out about the time the lease on the Fiat is up. There will be a several month gap, but she can drive the Jag or the Suburban for a few months if necessary. Assuming the price is close to what they say it'll be, I don't know how I could say no. If not, I guess we'd get two Ss? :lol:

21Kid
September 30th, 2015, 11:54 AM
First Drive: Tesla Model X is awesome way to spend $132K (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/09/30/tesla-model-x-first-drive/73089304/)

Just sitting in the driver seat of the Model X is a thrill. The panoramic windshield that extends back over your head gives the driver not only a clear view of cars ahead on the road, but passing birds, clouds and aircraft. Drone attack? You'll see it coming.

Normally, a windshield is nothing to crow about. But, again showing the complexity of this vehicle, the sun visors are works of art -- swiveling out and locking in place with magnets.

We could go on and on. It's going to take months to dissect this vehicle. So here's our bottom line:

A practical car buyer will take a pass on the Model X. It's so easy to go with a BMW X5 or Lexus RX, luxury SUVs that have been built for years and will be relatively or completely dependable. Yes, maybe a bit boring. They are are nice cars, but they are just cars.

thesameguy
September 30th, 2015, 11:56 AM
That last line is what I get with a lot of folks here on the S. "I'm sure it's great, but the alternative is a known quantity."

Yw-slayer
September 30th, 2015, 04:53 PM
Well, the guys I know who have an S say that once you have one you'll never want to buy another ICE car. I can see the point of that as long as you're talking about a daily driver, and not a "fun", or sports, car.

21Kid
October 1st, 2015, 09:48 AM
What YW said.

After reading that article (http://teslaclubsweden.se/test-drive-of-a-petrol-car/)suggesting the opposite, from an alternative universe. I can see why it would be difficult to go back.

What are we going to say instead of Vroom Vroom! though. :( Whooosh?

Yw-slayer
October 1st, 2015, 12:49 PM
I'm not fussed about engine noise. I'd keep a BRZ for fun and use the Tesla for everything else, including rocking out to your awesome music in silence.

thesameguy
October 1st, 2015, 07:57 PM
Having driven a totally entry level electric car, I completely understand the "won't go back." I don't think we could. It *is* tough to decide whether we want physically small in addition to electric or not, but electric is virtually non-negotiable. I get that.

What *appears* to be tough, though, is taking the plunge. I've lost track of the number of people I know who bought electric after we got the 500e. The number is like a dozen. But the only reason they ever considered it is because they spent time with us and/or in ours and saw what it was all about. The people I know who could just go buy an X (and would be thrilled with it) haven't spent time with an electric, and won't take the plunge.

Yw-slayer
October 1st, 2015, 11:53 PM
That's fair enough. I'm lucky in that my car park space can have a charger installed. I'm less lucky in that it's a bit tight by American standards (although pretty good by HK standards) and it's tough enough getting out of it with an S-Max due to the 2 S-Classes next to it and the Bentley that I must avoid as I leave.

thesameguy
October 2nd, 2015, 06:20 AM
Consider getting some old shitbox for a year and *not* avoiding them? :lol:

Yw-slayer
October 2nd, 2015, 06:43 AM
... I think they might have something to say about that. Plus the S-max is probably already a shitbox to them.

Realistically it's better to wait until they release an X with second row seats that fold and a bunch of bugs ironed out.

thesameguy
October 2nd, 2015, 06:57 AM
Possible your garage has become beset by vandals nobody has seen?

Yw-slayer
October 2nd, 2015, 05:23 PM
It's possible, but it's highly improbable. Given that I have usd6k worth of bikes next to the car, which on one view is in breach of the deed of mutual covenant, it might not be the best argument...

Yw-slayer
October 3rd, 2015, 07:54 PM
What do you guys think? Enough space for an added 10cm on either side? It could be done, but is a bit tight. I guess the guy with the old S might be pleased that I'd no longer have normally-opening doors to ding his car with, but then again he could still ding mine when he gets out of the driver's seat (which is of course on the right here).

14861487

That said, maybe it's actually less wide. This is so confusing, come on, just publish the fucking widths already.

S-Max Width:
Either 2154 mm http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/ford/s-max/estate-2006/dimensions/
or
1885mm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_S-Max

Maybe the difference is due to the mirrors?

Model X width on Google: 2,083 mm
or apparently some service centre material from earlier last month:
Overall width (mirrors extended): 89.4" (therefore 2271mm)

I suppose an extra 11cm total might not hurt too much. But I'm not keen on losing three folding second-row seats. It's god to be able to just throw bikes in the back of the S-Max and not give a crap. Plus it was sooooooo cheap (apparently Ford HK messed up the calculation/pricing and were forced to sell it as though it qualified for an environmentally friendly tax deduction, even though it didn't, so we got AWESOME VALUE) and works so well now that it seems almost a crime to move it on.

Mr Wonder
October 4th, 2015, 12:23 AM
I'd be very careful with published dimensions, some include mirrors and some don't. It's like weights, some are with all fluids, 70kg driver and half a tank of fuel. Others are bone dry with no options, AC, electric seats, etc. on the car.
That said if it's 110mm overall you'll be fine in that space, 100mm each side is probably pushing it a little. How much space does the S class have on the other side of his bay? Though you could always go in forwards and hug the post on the left, leaving both yourself and the S class room to open drivers doors.

Yw-slayer
October 4th, 2015, 05:29 AM
He has more space on his left, I think about 5-15cm more on it than on my side, but it's tough to "force" him to move over as it's his passenger side and as HE has a more modern S Class on that side.

I used to park front forward but backing out with the S Max was an issue (no problem with the BRZ obviously) due to the pillar on the left and the relatively new Bentley diagonally behind me which will cost slightly more to repair than a 90's S Class and is not always parked far back enough to make backing out easy. As in, I had to do a 9 point turn - guided by front and rear sensors - just to get out of the bloody lot. Given that the X is longer I suspect it'd be even worse, so front facing out is probably better.

Either way, the sensible thing to do is to wait for final specs AND a folding second row seat option. By which time the Govt will probably have revoked the tax exemption for electric cars, making t far too expensive for me to buy anyway. :lol:

overpowered
October 6th, 2015, 03:24 PM
Right wingnuts go off on Tesla.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/02/1427064/-Tesla-introduces-new-supercar-right-wing-goes-nuts?detail=email

MR2 Fan
October 14th, 2015, 07:20 PM
Info on the self-driving (sort of) mode now available:

http://jalopnik.com/teslas-autopilot-system-is-awesome-and-creepy-and-a-sig-1736573089?rev=1444858879748


I think its kinda cool, but yet not sure WHY it's necessary really, as it's designed for highway cruising and you're still supposed to be paying attention. Once you control the wheel or press the brake it will give control back to you.

Crazed_Insanity
October 15th, 2015, 09:06 AM
That's amazing. Just a software update without any sort of added hardware?!?! It changes lane too? Wow.

MR2 Fan
October 15th, 2015, 09:22 AM
That's amazing. Just a software update without any sort of added hardware?!?! It changes lane too? Wow.

well, technically they added the hardware starting with the 2014 models, just didn't enable it until now

overpowered
November 7th, 2015, 07:53 PM
Elon Musk Admits Humans Can’t Be Trusted with Tesla’s Autopilot Feature

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/543241/elon-musk-admits-humans-cant-be-trusted-with-teslas-autopilot-feature/

Godson
November 7th, 2015, 08:37 PM
I have a test drive in a p90d on Tuesday...

Yw-slayer
November 8th, 2015, 04:53 AM
DO IT

Godson
November 8th, 2015, 06:43 AM
It'll get GOT

Freude am Fahren
November 9th, 2015, 08:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I5WylWtkaE

Crazed_Insanity
November 10th, 2015, 01:21 PM
If it were a black family, surely the entire family would've been shot by the PO-lise!

Godson
November 10th, 2015, 02:19 PM
Ffs

Godson
November 10th, 2015, 03:14 PM
P85d is fucking redonkulous. I need a model 3

Freude am Fahren
December 25th, 2015, 09:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkT2fozqPjc

overpowered
January 19th, 2016, 09:42 PM
Electric vehicles beat gasoline cars in cradle-to-grave emissions study

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-ucs-electric-vehicles-emissions-study-20151110-story.html

21Kid
January 21st, 2016, 06:40 AM
:cool::up: And it will only get better as they get better and more efficient. It's still an early technology, and it's got huge potential. Just imagine when Tesla's gigafactory is open, when more people adopt solar, and can store their own energy at home, etc... I'm excited. :D


I picture the scene from I, Robot where the girl is shocked to see he has a gasoline motorcycle.

Please tell me this doesn't run on gas! Gas explodes, you know?

novicius
January 21st, 2016, 07:40 AM
I want to see Leno (or anybody) build a custom '57 Chevy with the P90D drivetrain. :hard:

Freude am Fahren
January 21st, 2016, 08:20 AM
Please tell me this doesn't run on gas! Gas explodes, you know?

So do batteries :D

thesameguy
January 21st, 2016, 10:35 AM
Yeah. Some local kid lit himself on fire when his vape failed!

overpowered
January 21st, 2016, 11:33 AM
:cool::up: And it will only get better as they get better and more efficient. It's still an early technology, and it's got huge potential. Just imagine when Tesla's gigafactory is open, when more people adopt solar, and can store their own energy at home, etc... I'm excited. :DYeah.

I find it interesting that even in places with the dirtiest electricity production, they're still doing the equivalent of a 35mpg car in terms of pollution, which is actually not bad. In places with clean electricity generation, it was off the charts.

Solar is growing rapidly. I see more panels in more places all the time. Even the local Walmart has solar panel canopies in their parking lot providing shade to the customers and power to the store.

MR2 Fan
January 21st, 2016, 01:59 PM
Yeah.

I find it interesting that even in places with the dirtiest electricity production, they're still doing the equivalent of a 35mpg car in terms of pollution, which is actually not bad. In places with clean electricity generation, it was off the charts.

Solar is growing rapidly. I see more panels in more places all the time. Even the local Walmart has solar panel canopies in their parking lot providing shade to the customers and power to the store.

Side note, I recall when i was in Kyoto (Japan) I saw lots of the traditional style houses with big solar panels on the roof...and they were everywhere. I saw some solar farms as well, super cool

21Kid
January 28th, 2016, 05:14 AM
unofficial, but pretty cool.


https://vimeo.com/152927644


Not a Dream

It is rare to see talented filmmakers donate their talent and time to make ads for products without any compensation, but the Californian electric car maker Tesla Motors seems to bring out that kind of passion from its supporters. Twin brothers Adam and Nathan Freise fall into that category. They like to make films to feed their passion "for design & fiction, & for fusing the real with the unreal", and this is exactly what they've done in their new short featuring two Teslas

overpowered
January 28th, 2016, 11:01 AM
Also, that's a speech made by Nikola Tesla himself.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI0eZdw0_AM

overpowered
February 11th, 2016, 02:26 PM
Tesla Crushing Incumbents In Large Luxury Segment

http://evobsession.com/tesla-crushing-incumbents-large-luxury-segment/

Godson
February 11th, 2016, 05:34 PM
only 1k down?


looks like I may need to piece together my deposit.

GB
February 11th, 2016, 08:08 PM
I need a model 3

I'm starting to think that for myself as well.

21Kid
February 12th, 2016, 10:18 AM
Tesla Model 3 reveal will happen March 31 (http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/10/tesla-model-3-reveal-march-31/)
The car itself will launch in 2017.

Godson
February 13th, 2016, 02:52 PM
After number crunching, and playing with various ideas. I am going to pass on the Tesla. I would, essentially, have a maintenance free car but back to a monthly payment. Yes I would save on gas, but this is after getting the charger installed on my house, the ~500/month car payment for an additional 5 years starting next fall. It just doesn't make sense to me, especially at the current gas prices.

Yes, I am aware the price of fuel is going to increase. It always does, but driving the 911 will actually be cheaper for quite some time. Some could say it will be more enjoyable too.

novicius
February 13th, 2016, 03:52 PM
Seriously this is the best move. :up:

Godson
February 13th, 2016, 03:55 PM
Kinda my thoughts. It also moved me one step closer to an RSV4.

TheBenior
February 13th, 2016, 05:07 PM
I've done this calculation my motorcycle. Even if gas was $5/gallon, the fuel savings from riding instead of driving for 6 months wouldn't even pay for the helmet I just bought.

The cheapest car is the one you already own. Unless that car is an out-of-warranty Range Rover.

thesameguy
February 13th, 2016, 05:33 PM
Maybe, but there is something to be said for cost control. The Fiat has proven to have been an excellent use of money.

samoht
February 15th, 2016, 01:41 PM
only 1k down?


looks like I may need to piece together my deposit.

Yeah, 1k down from April 1st.

They're aiming to start production by the end of next year, so realistically you're looking at a two year wait.

That's the best case, depending on how their development program and production build-up go. An independent view is less optimistic:
"our expectation of a Model 3 launch in late 2018 (unchanged), at least 1 year later than the company is targeting, Morgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas wrote earlier this month."
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-predicts-rosy-2016-but-can-elon-musk-be-believed-2016-02-10

Also, I don't believe they are guaranteeing a price now, so it may not come in at the $35k we're all hoping for.

And there's always the risk that Tesla, which has burnt a lot of cash, might not last the two-three-plus years it'll take to build your car.

I'm not going to say 'April Fool', but I will say that it sounds more like a kickstarter to me than a normal car deposit. Which is fine if you're up for that kind of risk, but if not I'd say you're better off waiting to nearer the time, seeing what the conventional carmakers come up with in the next three years, taking an actual test drive, and then deciding.

Crazed_Insanity
February 15th, 2016, 03:17 PM
Kick starter analogy is too extreme IMHO. Surely Musk doesn't really need $1000 from us to get going. I can't imagine tesla folding at this stage. Even if Musk ran out of money, surely somebody will buy it up.

The main uncertainty is probably when model3 will be ready.

novicius
February 15th, 2016, 05:05 PM
The cheapest car is the one you already own.
Yup. My Exploder V8 4x4 is still cheaper to run from week to week than just about any new car payment.

Of course I need to get the AC serviced by summer. :D

thesameguy
March 23rd, 2016, 08:55 AM
How to get a deposit on a 3 in...

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2016/0322/How-to-reserve-a-Tesla-Model-3-online?cmpid=ema:nws:BizTech%2520Weekly%2520%2803-23-2016%29&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2016-03-23%20BizTech&utm_term=BizTech

Guess deliveries are now officially pushed back til late '17. I think that probably wipes the 3 off our list.

Fogelhund
March 31st, 2016, 03:07 AM
So launch is still today? This should be interesting.

Rare White Ape
March 31st, 2016, 05:27 AM
A friend of mine reserved two Model 3s today. I dunno why the fuck for. I think he's banking on selling one straight away to make a profit on the demand.

Currently he owns a home in Mackay but lives in Brisbane on his off weeks from work (he does fly-in-fly-out mining from Perth). When he is off he has to occasionally make a treck to Mackay, which is a 12-hour drive. Without a tenant, it is an expansive home to own, plus it is halfway through a renovation so he really needs to get his butt in gear and fix the damn thing up.

I don't think he has fully thought this through yet. But it would be perfect for him if he lived near the city and didn't have to drive a thousand kilometers on a regular basis.

novicius
March 31st, 2016, 05:32 AM
Probably looking to flip both.

21Kid
March 31st, 2016, 06:30 AM
It's not until 8:30pm on the left coast??? :eek:

Did he have to wait in line?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ce1Ew7MUIAAeXwB.jpg

Kchrpm
March 31st, 2016, 06:38 AM
I wonder if they counted each other to try and go to sleep last night...

Yw-slayer
March 31st, 2016, 09:07 AM
The availability of the 3 should push used S prices down.

Yw-slayer
April 1st, 2016, 12:01 AM
Not bad. Should I put down a deposit?

Rare White Ape
April 1st, 2016, 12:45 AM
Probably looking to flip both.

Nope, he's an electrician who's had a stiffy for a Tesla for ages. He's definitely going to keep one (along with the Power Wall that he's ordered), it's just a matter of where he's planning on installing the gizmos required to charge it up.

Jason
April 1st, 2016, 03:28 AM
$35k, and 215+ mile range? Well done, Tesla :up:

By the time I'm done paying off the FiST, things might be very different in terms of on the road vehicle makeup.

MR2 Fan
April 1st, 2016, 05:12 AM
I'm not a big fan of the looks....reminds me of the Panamera a bit

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ANqsUqs3VGs/Vv3yJRDO1EI/AAAAAAABXU4/MefyGcmEi1EtTL7INgAYd5t6TrMjMYyWw/s1600/Tesla-Model-3-4.jpg

Kchrpm
April 1st, 2016, 05:49 AM
Tesla Model 3 vs Chevrolet Bolt. Mainstream midsize melee!

21Kid
April 1st, 2016, 06:22 AM
I like it. :D And with the current supercharger locations (https://www.teslamotors.com/findus/supercharger/us), it is becoming more viable by the day. :cool:
Just wait until other companies start developing charging stations. Although, I don't know if that will be a very viable business if you can just charge them at home.

novicius
April 1st, 2016, 07:19 AM
Yeah looks sharp, thumbs-up. :up: :up:

Freude am Fahren
April 1st, 2016, 07:23 AM
That gray one does not look very good. But some of the paint/wheel combos make it looks much better. The angle matters too. I'd say it looks like it could be a homerun.

And look at the interior... It's, different, for sure. I hope that isn't final. I hate these tacked on tablet style screens. And that is just too big. I assume HUD, since there are no gauges. Is that even legal?

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--OYKSN2S0--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/sdk4aer5dfha45bxrmqt.png

MR2 Fan
April 1st, 2016, 07:33 AM
That gray one does not look very good. But some of the paint/wheel combos make it looks much better. The angle matters too. I'd say it looks like it could be a homerun.

And look at the interior... It's, different, for sure. I hope that isn't final. I hate these tacked on tablet style screens. And that is just too big. I assume HUD, since there are no gauges. Is that even legal?

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--OYKSN2S0--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/sdk4aer5dfha45bxrmqt.png

Wow, I hadn't seen the interior yet....definitely looks like halfway through concept stages and not final

Freude am Fahren
April 1st, 2016, 08:22 AM
Not a hatch.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--uaROKJL5--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/ei5n4agxis4bs0i56tps.jpg

Godson
April 1st, 2016, 10:42 AM
It looks like a mix of the panamera, and the focus St.

novicius
April 1st, 2016, 10:45 AM
Not a hatch?! :twitch: #aww

thesameguy
April 1st, 2016, 11:18 AM
Yeah, that's a *major* bummer for me.

You know... I wonder... if maybe Tesla is actually considering multiple body styles for the 3. If this is truly the everyman's car, they really should consider a wagon or even cute ute version. A Tesla 3 wagon? Be still my heart.

Freude am Fahren
April 1st, 2016, 11:25 AM
Well, that's kinda what they did with the S/X. So maybe. The body as it is now wouldn't really benefit from a hatch because there so little unused room there anyway. Unless you're putting down the seats of course, then it does greatly.

novicius
April 1st, 2016, 01:43 PM
Heh, having a hatch and not able to put the seats down? Hasn't happened since the 4th gen F-body, I'll bet.

Crazed_Insanity
April 2nd, 2016, 10:13 AM
Model 3 and Bolt don't look like they're in the same class! For the same money, it's a no brainer to go with model 3!

However, I think I personally still prefer the Volt more at this stage of the game. Depending on the price of gas or electricity, I can just run whatever's cheaper. I just wish Volt can deliver the mpg #s of prius.

Hyundais Ioniq also looks interesting with better looks and better mpg but doesn't have Volts EV only range though...

Anyway, thanks to Musk, EVs are more and more viable, but until we run out of gasoline, it'll probably continue to occupy small percentage of auto market!

21Kid
April 28th, 2016, 06:10 AM
This (http://www.autoblog.com/2016/04/28/tesla-model-s-amazon-echo-voice-hack-video/)could be pretty cool, if it weren't an attached garage.

21Kid
May 9th, 2016, 01:31 PM
Spectacular Tesla Model S crash after flying 82+ft in the air (http://electrek.co/2016/05/06/tesla-model-s-crash-large-crumple-zone-gallery/)
https://electrek.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/model-s-crash-germany-6.jpg?w=368&h=232&crop=1
:eek:

It takes a lot of speed to flip a 5,000 lbs Model S with a low center of gravity, but fortunately and despite the severity of the crash, none of the 5 occupants in the Model S died.

In fact, all five were all able to exit the vehicle without the help of the first responders, though their injuries were described as “serious but non-life threatening” and they were transported to the hospital by helicopter.

For people wondering how it flew 82 ft through the air, here’s the ramp it hit at full speed
https://electrek.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/tesla-crash-ramp-germany.jpg?w=590&h=393

Godson
May 9th, 2016, 02:50 PM
Safe fucking vehicle.

Yw-slayer
May 9th, 2016, 03:37 PM
Lucky for them that it wasn't a Merckey Mouse.

overpowered
June 11th, 2016, 01:04 PM
Tesla is doomed, again.

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/9/11880450/tesla-doomed

21Kid
June 13th, 2016, 11:16 AM
Yeaaaaaah, that isn't an opinionated hit piece. :rolleyes:

overpowered
June 14th, 2016, 11:30 AM
How many times have they been doomed so far?

Dicknose
June 14th, 2016, 10:14 PM
It is an interesting angle, that Tesla could struggle to go mainstream (which means a bit down market from where they are now) and that quality rather than any electric issue could be what becomes their main blocker.
But it's also something you can work on improving over time. That some companies haven't improved quality as quick as their competitors doesn't mean Tesla will be the same.
It's a challenge, Musk seems good at challenges.

Drachen596
June 15th, 2016, 01:22 AM
Sort of on this topic.. Harley has announced they will be building a production Electric motorcycle within 5 years.

Also i kind of wish Musk and Tesla would enter or at the very least advise in the motorcycle market as well.

MR2 Fan
June 15th, 2016, 07:04 AM
That vox article is really crap

21Kid
June 15th, 2016, 08:08 AM
Especially since they were interviewing Edward Niedermeyer


Finally, it is worth noting that the blogger who fabricated this issue, which then caused negative and incorrect news to be written about Tesla by reputable institutions, is Edward Niedermeyer. This is the same gentle soul who previously wrote a blog titled “Tesla Death Watch,” which starting on May 19, 2008 was counting the days until Tesla’s death. It has now been 2,944 days. We just checked our pulse and, much to his chagrin, appear to be alive. It is probably wise to take Mr. Niedermeyer’s words with at least a small grain of salt. https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/grain-of-salt

Godson
June 15th, 2016, 08:40 AM
The real leader in electric was motoczysz. But since Michael's passing, I don't think what he was working on will ever make it to a production bike.

thesameguy
June 15th, 2016, 04:40 PM
There is so much wrong with that article it's not even funny. The basic premise that "once software works, just copy it" is so grossly flawed it calls everything else that analyst says into question. He's clearly never done any sort of software work. I can't believe a damn thing he says. Scaling is ALWAYS the problem. Always.

overpowered
June 20th, 2016, 09:49 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/20/tesla-model-s-electric-car-floats-water-boat-elon-musk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FszARiU_jRI

21Kid
June 20th, 2016, 10:06 AM
We *def* don't recommended this, but Model S floats well enough to turn it into a boat for short periods of time. Thrust via wheel rotation.
10:25 AM - 19 Jun 2016:lol:

Kchrpm
June 30th, 2016, 01:16 PM
I had heard that no company wanted to be the first to have a death in their autopilot vehicle because of the negative press that would arrive from it, and unfortunately it seems that burden will have to be carried by Tesla.

http://electrek.co/2016/06/30/tesla-autopilot-fata-crash-nhtsa-investigation/

A tractor-trailer was crossing/coming onto a divided highway perpendicular to the flow of traffic, and, according to Tesla, the car could not "see" it due to the bright sky and the white trailer. They made sure to point out that the driver must not have seen it, either, because the car specifically tells you that you should be paying attention and be ready to take control, with hands on the wheel, at all times when autopilot is on.

Now to see how media sources handle this.

MR2 Fan
June 30th, 2016, 02:10 PM
This makes me wonder...is Tesla able to sense or show what the driver was doing at the time of the impact? They can sense if the driver has his hands near the wheel, so they should be able to sense whether he was paying attention or sleeping in the backseat or something.

Speaking of which I saw a video or gif of a couple who were doing random things in their Tesla using auto-pilot...none of which was paying attention to the road. It was satire I think but still a bit disturbing for the idiots who will take it seriously to mean complete autopilot

thesameguy
June 30th, 2016, 02:12 PM
I have no idea, but at the very least "steering wheel sensors" would make a lot of sense - even if it wouldn't divert liability, it would at least show the driver wasn't following the rules.

Kchrpm
June 30th, 2016, 02:52 PM
There is already a sensor for if your hands are on the wheel, and it warns you to put your hands back on the wheel when you take them off. If you leave them off, it will gradually slow the car down. If he was sleeping in the back seat, having the windshield get hit might not have killed him. He may have just been just in the front seat and not paying attention, which you can detect using eye-tracking cameras, but I don't think I've ever seen those in production, only in human factor testing and concept vehicles.

thesameguy
June 30th, 2016, 03:01 PM
Nice! :up:

Freude am Fahren
June 30th, 2016, 03:14 PM
On the one hand, considering the number of fatal traffic accidents by actual humans, I'm not that worried. On the other, this is a public Beta, where the general public, having not agreed to it, are participating as bystanders. Luckily this truck wasn't a bus or something and no one else was hurt.

thesameguy
June 30th, 2016, 03:37 PM
Meh. It's not like the gearshift doesn't work right or the ignition switch turns itself off. People have been "beta-ing" automotive designs since the first cars. This situation actually seems pretty mild, and mostly the driver's fault.

Drachen596
June 30th, 2016, 04:22 PM
the comments on that article remind me of something i read maybe two years ago.

Article basically said that as cars get safer and more safety features get introduced that we're having MORE accidents even though there are less fatal ones. yeah correlation is not causation but the article was implying that as we add safety people ignore the danger more because they believe themselves to be perfectly safe.

thesameguy
June 30th, 2016, 04:52 PM
I don't know whether that's true or not, but it certainly matches with my experiences. Not only do people think their conveyance will keep them safe (passively, somehow) but their conveyances are so good people are lulled by them. Quiet, insulated, soft-touch bullshit.

pl8ster
June 30th, 2016, 06:14 PM
Lawsuit in 3...2...1...

Drachen596
June 30th, 2016, 07:10 PM
Its not a lawsuit they'd win. It'd get tossed faster than Walkers daughter/fathers suit against Porsche.

thesameguy
June 30th, 2016, 09:10 PM
You never know with juries, but I have some great ideas for exhibits that would make the plaintiff look real dumb.

Drachen596
June 30th, 2016, 10:21 PM
Tesla has been pretty adamant that the driver must continue to pay attention. Its been in nearly every news article about the autopilot feature. Telsas Lawyers wouldn't overlook that I'm sure.

The main thing is I don't believe a Judge would allow it to even go that far though.

overpowered
June 30th, 2016, 11:21 PM
The thing is, a partially autonomous system like this invites drivers to think of it as fully autonomous, which it isn't. This was kind of inevitable. Yes, they've got all kinds of warnings that you still have to pay attention. That isn't human nature.

Self driving cars pretty much need to be all or nothing. If I had a Tesla, I would not use this feature. It leads to complacency.

MR2 Fan
June 30th, 2016, 11:30 PM
The thing is, a partially autonomous system like this invites drivers to think of it as fully autonomous, which it isn't. This was kind of inevitable. Yes, they've got all kinds of warnings that you still have to pay attention. That isn't human nature.

Self driving cars pretty much need to be all or nothing. If I had a Tesla, I would not use this feature. It leads to complacency.

I agree mostly, the problem is how to beta test something and have enough of miles of data for it to be truly autonomous, without letting the users put those miles on for you, then the question of "how many beta testing miles are enough?"

It was never going to be a 100% perfect process. I think Tesla's done well so far, but like it was mentioned, the first fatality is going to be bad news for that company.

overpowered
July 1st, 2016, 12:19 AM
Google's been going for the fully autonomous thing for a while now and they have trained paid testers logging lots and lots and lots of miles. That's a bit different than having your customers do your beta testing.

Kchrpm
July 1st, 2016, 04:43 AM
Driver may have been watching a movie, but it might have just been an audiobook: http://jalopnik.com/man-killed-in-self-driving-tesla-was-watching-harry-pot-1782935648

21Kid
July 1st, 2016, 06:52 AM
In an earlier video (http://jalopnik.com/man-killed-in-self-driving-tesla-recorded-video-of-auto-1782918905)from him, you can hear an audio book playing in the video, and he mentions it in his comments.


Note 2: In case you’re curious, I’m listening to an audiobook in the background. It’s a Malcolm Gladwell book (excellent book).


It's sad that this happened. But it seems to me that the fault was human error (once again) by the semi-drivers, if he wasn't clear of cross traffic and cut him off.

Drachen596
July 1st, 2016, 08:36 PM
Truck driver would have been driving in the direct of the sun and possibly didn't see the car.

Good idea to blame him instead of the guy that was seemingly watching a movie instead of traffic.

thesameguy
July 2nd, 2016, 12:16 PM
The truck driver said he heard Harry Potter playing in the car after the accident, which is a pretty specific claim to make. If that's the DVD they find the portable player then that doesn't speak well of the occupant (can't really call him a driver now, can we?). Even though he could have just been listening to it, the fact that there was a DVD playing a movie in view of the operator really lends credence to the concept he wasn't paying attention. We gotta wait for the facts to come out. Right now it's impossible to assign fault, it's just a sad thing that happened.

speedpimp
July 4th, 2016, 11:51 AM
Here (http://safer.fmcsa.dot.gov/query.asp?searchtype=ANY&query_type=queryCarrierSnapshot&query_param=USDOT&original_query_param=NAME&query_string=1065141&original_query_string=OKEMAH%20EXPRESS%20LLC) is the company safety snapshot for the truck involved in the accident.

21Kid
July 5th, 2016, 07:10 AM
Update: Police report a DVD player was found inside the vehicle.
Yeah, definitely sounds like he wasn't paying attention. :(

SportWagon
July 6th, 2016, 10:44 AM
So the other day I was driving my new Subaru, and some slick-looking white car was hanging around, sort of in my blind spot, in the lane to my right. All of a sudden it accelerates rapidly to be in front of me, allowing me to change lanes and end up behind it. I can't remember whether I signaled before it moved up, or not.

Took me a while to recognize what it was. I thought I recognized the the T-symbol, and it said "Model S". And had a special G-series Ontario license plate with green letters. Only later could I make out the "T . E . S . L . A" in the rear chrome. I trailed it for a while, until it turned off to either make the illegal left turn into Conestogo, or end up in one of the exclusive neighbourhoods near the Grand River, or perhaps the new less exclusive ones in the recently repurposed corn and dairy farms.

Funniest thing. I dropped in at work to do some banking and ended up parking right beside a similar car, probably the same one. I actually have pictures of that which I might extricate and process and post some day.

MR2 Fan
July 6th, 2016, 10:45 AM
So the other day I was driving my new Subaru, and some slick-looking white car was hanging around, sort of in my blind spot, in the lane to my right. All of a sudden it accelerates rapidly to be in front of me, allowing me to change lanes and end up behind it. I can't remember whether I signaled before it moved up, or not.

Took me a while to recognize what it was. I thought I recognized the the T-symbol, and it said "Model S". And had a special G-series Ontario license plate with green letters. Only later could I make out the "T . E . S . L . A" in the rear chrome. I trailed it for a while, until it turned off to either make the illegal left turn into Conestogo, or end up in one of the exclusive neighbourhoods near the Grand River, or perhaps the new less exclusive ones in the recently repurposed corn and dairy farms.

Funniest thing. I dropped in at work to do some banking and ended up parking right beside a similar car, probably the same one. I actually have pictures of that which I might extricate and process and post some day.

funny, I see them around here all the time

21Kid
July 6th, 2016, 11:03 AM
Yeah, there are a bunch of them in Chicago too.

Yw-slayer
July 6th, 2016, 03:05 PM
They are now one of the most common cars on the road in Hk. I seriously think there are more of the, around than there are Accords, and maybe Civics. Definitely more of them than are Subarus.

thesameguy
July 19th, 2016, 11:40 AM
Boss bought a P90D - finally.

Actually, he bought it for his wife, but whatever.

Had a chance to try it and autopilot out... anyone who relies on autopilot is an idiot. Watching it flounder on even mildly trafficky roads is hilarious. No way I'd ever trust it completely!

Crazed_Insanity
July 20th, 2016, 07:59 AM
How does it drive?

Co-worker of mine said he didn't like the heavy sluggish driving dynamics at all... said that he prefers his wife's i3 than the Model S. Not sure if it's true or just sour grapes... ;)

thesameguy
July 20th, 2016, 09:51 AM
Sounds like sour grapes. It's not a sports car, it's a 7-seater behemoth. Still, the i3 (and our 500e) feel much lighter than they are, whereas the Tesla feels heavy like an S-class or 7-series. I would imagine it's supposed to, those are the buyers it's trying to steal. I think the tall & short wheelbase combo of the i3 (again, like the Fiat) make it feel more dynamic and quicker than it actually is - limits are low, you approach them quickly. The BMW people were not keen on me thrashing the i3, but I think I got enough wheel time to liken it to the Fiat in terms of dynamics (though I think the Fiat feels more planted). Like Clarkson said about the Abarth, you're not going very fast but you feel like a racecar driver. The Tesla is long and low and heavy and even though it has a lot of power you can't escape the feeling of size. My other boss has an S55 AMG 4matic, and IMHO the two are similar in overall, um, ambience.

Ludicrous is exactly like it sounds. I didn't try it, but I passengered while the owner demonstrated. It's butt puckering, and even at 70mph no indication it's going to stop even though intellectually you know it will. Hopefully.

On a large, average, suburban surface street autopilot looks like a video game with cautions and warnings advising it's not sure what it's doing. We didn't die, but it wasn't confidence inspiring at 35mph. I certainly wouldn't check out at 70mph. It's clear it's reactive, lacking human intuition. Seems it really doesn't like narrow lines or wandering roads. Definitely neat that it exists, I might flip it on in an space if I needed something in the back seat or wanted to kick off my shoes (versus steering with knees & hoping for the best), but tbh like cruise control I'd probably never use it. You can't check out, you might as well actually drive.

Crazed_Insanity
July 20th, 2016, 03:05 PM
Cool. Thanks! :up:

21Kid
July 21st, 2016, 10:32 AM
This week the world noticed that Tesla officially dropped the “Motors” portion of its name, but we had no idea why. Now we may have a reason – Tesla has just unveiled its new master plan, which will see the automaker branch out from just producing electric cars. Tesla CEO Elon Musk has revealed that Tesla will soon start building heavy-duty trucks and buses, which will be unveiled as early as next year. In the “Master Plan Part Deux“, as Elon Musk described it on his website, he also outlines his plan for combining battery technology with solar infrastructure to move the world away from unsustainable fossil fuels.:cool::up:

Freude am Fahren
July 21st, 2016, 10:41 AM
Didn't Tesla always dismiss putting solar cells on the roof?

thesameguy
July 21st, 2016, 10:54 AM
Of the vehicle? Yes. But I think he is talking about solar cells on buildings to support electric vehicles.

overpowered
July 21st, 2016, 02:28 PM
There isn't enough space to provide a useful amount of charge from solar panels on the top of a car. There was some car a while back that had them to run a fan to cool the car while it was parked in the sun. I can't remember what car it was, but it seems like it would work. A ventilation fan uses a lot less power than a car motor.