2016 Formula 1 Verizon GP at Milwaukee Mile

[FaultyMario]

...or something like that. This is the F1 silly season thread.


It seems official that Haas has had the haste your efforts for Formula 1 notice.

Will they be the new Super Aguri (Haas-Honda, anyone?), will they flop like Hispania or flourish like... shit, I don't remember the last successful independent entry!

[The359]

At the very least, Haas has experience. He already had an F1 team in the 80s.

[FaultyMario]

No joke, I hope McLaren, Sauber and Haas are Honda-powered next year.

[Denetti]

That was a different Hass.

This is Gene Haas, of NaaSCAR. (Tony Stewart's business partner.)

That was Carl Hass of CaaRT. (no relation)

[Alan P]

I'm sure McLaren have a one year exclusivity deal on Honda engines and I've heard rumours that Haas might have Ferrari engines too.

[FaultyMario]

Damn it, I want Sauber at the toop of the midfield, and it's never gonna happen with that deal with Ferrari.

[Rare White Ape]

shit, I don't remember the last successful independent entry!

Brawn GP perhaps?

[tigeraid]

Oh I fucking hate you. I saw, and had hope beyond hope that F1 cars were indeed coming to the Milwaukee Mile. :(

[Godson]

:lol:

[Godson]

I didn't know where to put this, so I am leaving this here.


Domenicali out (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/27023145)

[2ndMoparMan]

After the last race, this doesn't surprise me at all. For the talent of the drivers that they have, the performance is hugely underwhelming.

[Freude am Fahren]

Noooooo, reaaaallly? Never would have seen that coming....



:lol:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bkn90ejCIAA5v4T.jpg

[Crazed_Insanity]

So the new replacement is some sales guys from North America..., anyone here familiar with Marco Mattiacci? Supposedly this guy knows Ferrari inside and out and will be able to take advantage of all of Ferrari's resources and also be able to play the politics to get things done inside the company, but his lack of experience in F-1 should be a concern, no? Unless he's also a super quick learner?

Anyway, at least it'll be interesting to see Kimi racing with Alonso this year. So far, Alonso clearly has the upper hand. When Kimi get's more comfortable with his car, let's see if he can really challenge Alonso later on...

[Godson]

Kimi has also been hit twice in the first lap.

[Blerpa]

From Autosport.com

"Ferrari's bosses are convinced that the relatively unknown Marco Mattiacci is just who its Formula 1 team needs to lead it to the front of the grid. Mattiacci has already been involved in lengthy meetings in Maranello this week, and he starts work immediately on the pit wall at this weekend's Chinese Grand Prix. While big name figures from inside the sport would have grabbed headlines as the replacement for Stefano Domenicali, Ferrari instead felt it was more important to have someone who understood the Ferrari organisation rather than simply having a knowledge of F1.

It has been suggested that while learning how the sport works is a big task, it is not as complicated as getting on top of the machinations inside Maranello. In Mattiacci, Ferrari has someone who excels in the latter - for he has become a golden boy through his achievements in expanding Ferrari's road car business in the Far East and the United States. Having originally moved to Ferrari from Jaguar in 1999, Mattiacci worked in the Middle East before heading the product launch for Maserati in the United States.

A promotion to become President and CEO of the Ferrari Asia Pacific Region in June 2006, was following by a switch to a similar role in North America. His drive and management skills helped Ferrari increase its sales by 20 per cent in the United States, with it become the Prancing Horse's biggest market. Those efforts were rewarded with the 2012 Automotive Executive of the Year Award. Mattiacci's work there brought him in to contact with Ferrari's worldwide motorsport programme, especially in sportscars, and also marked him out by di Montezemolo as one of the Italian company's brightest young managers. Di Montezemolo believes his skill set will be well placed to help the Ferrari F1 team move forward and recover from its disappointing start to the 2014 campaign.

And beyond just improving how Ferrari works, it is hoped that Mattiacci will be able to help the F1 team maximise the commercial and structural resources of its road car division - just as Mercedes has done - to help push its team on to success. Crucially, Mattiacci arrives highly trusted by senior management, which will make life easier for him to make changes that he feels are necessary. He also comes with no F1 baggage, which means he can approach matters with a fresh perspective to help the team become more reactive to the sport's current needs."

Unless he pulls a Flab, he's going to suck or not doing that much better than Domenicali, IMHO.

[FaultyMario]

F1 is a room full of assholes. Who've known each other for a long time. It's gonna be tough for Mattiaci. As Horner inherits the commercial rights' owner chair. Once Bernie dies.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Kimi has also been hit twice in the first lap.

Anyway, feeling sorry for Kimi for sure..., but at least he IS still better off driving for Lotus while not getting paid. ;)

[FaultyMario]

WTF :twitch:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Let me clarify... He is better off driving "Ferrari" rather than "Lotus", right?

[FaultyMario]

Has anybody driven a Lotus F1 car in 2014?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Which team is Grojean and Maldo driving for this year?

Which team was Kimi driving for last year?

WTF? :twitch:

[Freude am Fahren]

Apparently the scuttlebutt in Italian media is that Haas F1 would be a bit of a Junior team for Ferrari a la Torro Rosso/Red Bull. This according to Will Buxton's reporting of Italian media reports. Hearsay be damned.

I don't know if there's any evidence outside of Haas Automation's sponsorship showing up on the Ferraris? And The rumors were already strong that Ferrari was the engine they were looking at, right?

Could be both good and bad. Anyone that thinks American owned team=American drivers getting good chances at seats, I would think this would ruin that, as it would ultimately be Ferrari's decision who is driving. That said, I don't think the original assumption would be that true anyway, only slightly. Obviously the wealth of knowledge they could possibly gain from Ferrari would put them ahead of where they might be otherwise at race 1 in 2016. Did they ever say where they were going to base the team. Obviously the UK make the most sense since that's where everyone else is, and now Italy seems a possibility if this is true. Did they ever say they wanted to be based in the US? If so, this might actually help that. With the US being so important to Ferrari (and their former US guy now heading the team), they may see this as a way to further their brand in the US as more than just a status symbol.

Eh, just a bit of stream of consciousness from me there. Thoughts?

[Random]

I thought Haas was making the same noises that Windsor, et al, made about locating in the Charleston area.

[Drachen596]

rumors keep popping up of Danica racing for the Haas F1 team...

[Freude am Fahren]

Of course. And they're based on nothing, I'm sure.

[Alan P]

I wouldn't mind Danica being given a decent test opportunity but I can't see it happening. And there are perhaps more suitable ladies.

[Godson]

She's good no doubt, but I don't think she would fare well with the f1 mindset. If she tried walking into Lewis' or Button's pit stall to discuss race antics, she would be in hot water pretty fast

[Drachen596]

Di Silvestro is already testing with a team in F1 isn't she?

[FaultyMario]

I'm pretty sure that Alexander Rossi, who tested in Canada, is the more likely choice.

[FaultyMario]

Angelo, remember when you said I was on meth because I said that there was going to be a Mexican GP? (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/22/mexico-gp-2015_n_5610427.html?utm_hp_ref=uk)

Mwa.ha.ha.

[Kchrpm]

http://www.alexanderrossi.com/news/289/


The Marussia F1 Team is pleased to announce that Alexander Rossi has been appointed to the role of Official Reserve Driver for the remainder of the 2014 season.

[Freude am Fahren]

I thought he was already Caterham's reserve driver? Or was that only on a few race-by-race basis? Marussia might be a step up at this point anyway. Plus, Bianchi is a possibility to go to Ferrari next year if there's a shakeup in Marinello, so that could mean a race ride (or even if they give up on the Brit.)

[The359]

He departed Caterham (both the F1 team and GP2 team) for undisclosed reasons. Im not sure how this move is a step up for him if Marussia even exists next season. The Marussia "car company", if it ever really was one, is dead.

[Freude am Fahren]

Well, I don't see them as any better or worse than Caterham in terms of longevity, but their perfomance seems to have been steadily (though slowly) rising, where Caterham has leveled out.

[Random]

They explained the Rossi deal during the race broadcast...something about his contract being with the prvious owners, not the current management?

[Freude am Fahren]

Adam Parr (I'll admit I had to look up who he was) says that only 8 teams will be in F1 next year. I'm assuming he thinks Caterham is out. The other two? I would think Sauber and Marussia of course. Would Ferrari step in to help either of the latter two? Or even ramp things up with Haas to get a hybrid team on the grip next year?

If it is true, that means (all?) teams will need to run 3 cars. That honestly could be pretty interesting.

Or he could be talking out his ass?

[Alan P]

He was the only 'journalist' to mention it at all and it seemed to take everyone by surprise on BBC and on Sky that I saw. Hence I believe he was talking out of his arse. I can't see Caterham lasting to start next season. The whole 'secret Swiss and Middle East investors' thing sounds like a load of crap to me. Why would they want to remain unknown? Also the fact that Albers resigned as Caterham CEO, apparently because of money and investment towards the running of the team THIS year wasn't forthcoming.

Sauber apparently have a buyer in the wings. Marussia I can't really see lasting either sadly. If both Caterham and Marussia get forced out then next year could be interesting. Last time it was mooted teams would draw lots and a team (or two!) with the short straw would have to run an extra car.

[FaultyMario]

But won't Marussia have a big boost on prize money coming?

[Alan P]

But won't Marussia have a big boost on prize money coming?

They do, but it's lasting until then. You have to feel sorry for them.

Bernie, 'Yes, yes, there will be a £40 million cap, don't worry, same rules for everyone! Welcome aboard!
Six months later, Bernie says 'Er, remember that conversation we had about there being a £40 million cap? Well, er, there isn't one anymore.'

Tony Fernandes and Graeme Lowden both ask, 'Oh so it's now £50 million? maybe £60 million? I think we could still be competitive.'
Bernie, 'Er, actually, there isn't a cap. At all. keep trying your best though, stiff upper lip and all that!'

Tony and Graeme, 'SHIT!'

[Fogelhund]

Not even sure where to post this, but here it is.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29138322

Ferrari chairman Luca Di Montezemolo to quit after 23 years

[Kchrpm]

I was about to make a new thread in the Open Road, but figured it might have gotten posted here.

I hope Ferrari's road car division can continue the momentum that he has established. For racing, I'm not really worried about the F1 cars either way, I just hope that some factory LeMans entries show up.

[XHawkeye]

Peter De Lorenzo hates Marchionne so here's the negative view of Montezemelo's departure.

What's the over/under on how many years until a Ferrari sells a SUV/CUV, 6?

<QUOTE>

http://www.autoextremist.com/storage/arrowdown.gif http://www.autoextremist.com/storage/arrowdown.gif http://www.autoextremist.com/storage/arrowdown.gif Sergio Marchionne. Editor-in-Chief's Note: I've written about The Great Sergio's unmitigated arrogance, his runaway ego, his relentless micromanaging, his unflinching belief that he's the smartest guy in the room and that all others are mere poseurs and annoying trolls, his taking credit for products he had nothing to do with, and his constant, quixotic bleating about the promise of Alfa Romeo, but even Sergio has outdone himself this time. As reported by Bloomberg, Marchionne had the temerity to criticize Ferrari Chairman Luca Cordero di Montezemolo, saying that the F1 team must improve its unacceptable performance, after speculation was rampant that Montezemolo might be departing to run Alitalia, the Italian airline. For his part, Montezemolo insisted that he would be the one to announce any news regarding his future “if and when” it was necessary, in other words, no one at Fiat SpA was going to tell him what to do. Well, Sergio took great umbrage with Montezemolo's tone, telling reporters in Cernobbio, Italy, that, “Everybody is needed, nobody is indispensable. Nobody should ever get it through the head that you could threaten or suggest that the house should be in trouble if you don’t run the company." Oh really, Sergio? Aren't you the genius executive who has set-up Fiat Chrysler to fail after your departure, creating inevitable, long-term havoc with your 30-something direct reports and your heavy-handed micromanaging, so that you can say, "See, they can't function without me" after you retire to a life of smugness and I told you so's? And commenting on Formula 1? Uh, excuse me, but what the hell do you know about F1 besides n-o-t-h-i-n-g? Saying that Ferrari had the "best" drivers and should be winning? Best drivers? Please. Alonso is still great but beyond that Ferrari is getting their asses handed to them because technically they're also-rans. Simple as that. I gotta hand it to you, Sergio, your blind arrogance truly knows no bounds, and every time I think you can't look more foolish, you manage to take it to an entirely new level. Truly pathetic. And memo to the powers that be whose charge is protecting the Ferrari brand? Keep Sergio far, far away from it. - PMD

UPDATE: Bloomberg is now reporting that Montezemolo, who has led Ferrari for more than 20 years, may in fact be out. Marchionne wants to get his hands on Ferrari, which is 90 percent-owned by Fiat, so he can expand production and make more money. Montezemolo, who took charge of Ferrari in 1991, wants to maintain Ferrari's autonomy and limit sales to about 7,000 cars a year to preserve the brand's exclusivity. Montezemolo's disdain for Marchionne has now come to the surface. "Ferrari is now American," which represents "the end of an era," Montezemolo told close associates, Il Corriere della Sera reported today. So the mercenary deal maker, who has no respect for the integrity of the product or the brand exclusivity of Ferrari, wants to expand production to make more money so he'll look like even more of a genius, at least in his own mind. In other words, Marchionne is fulfilling his mission as the consummate stronzo. I've seen this movie before at other car companies, and it never ends well. - PMD

UPDATE: As feared, it was announced today (September 10th) that Luca Cordero di Montezemelo will step down from his role as chairman of Ferrari effective October 13th. He will be replaced by FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne. Not Good doesn't even begin to cover it. - PMD

http://www.autoextremist.com/on-the-table1/

</QUOTE>

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxJ2-wqIgAAYhRd.jpg:large

[Godson]

Wow, just wow.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Clash of the egos?

Maybe such a change can do Ferrari some good?

[FaultyMario]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/montezemolo-lauda-ferr.jpg

Crazy that this mofo spent 40+ years at Ferrari. He was appointed to the race team by Enzo, who obviously had a say on who his assistant should be. Anyway, may he spend his €27M liquidazione sprezzatura-ingly.

[FaultyMario]

Ross Brawn... said he needed major changes to accept the offer back to Ferrari... would this be change enough?

[Alan P]

I guess it depends how he gets on with Sergio. No doubt he knows of him and has met him but I doubt Ross will stand for weekly conference calls to brief the boss on progress. Ross will want complete control over everything, something he couldn't get at Mercedes which, IMO, prompted him to say 'no thanks' and to resign.

I was hoping we might see Ross at McLaren because they do need a kick up the backside.

[Blerpa]

"Peter De Lorenzo hates Marchionne"

In Italy EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE, hates Marchionne.
I think he is even more loathed than Briatore, just to put things in perspective.

[FaultyMario]

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/project-brabham

[samoht]

There's been more noise around three-car teams, apparently coming from Bernie.

Basically the tracks have a contract that the organisers will deliver at least a 20 car grid. This means that if more than one team folds before next March, contractually someone has to fill the 19th and 20th slots on the grid. Big teams fielding a third car would be more easily done than making a whole new team at short notice, so it seems that if more than one team closes down, we will see at least some third cars.

I'm actually inclined to think this would be a good thing. At present, many good drivers don't have a chance to compete for victories because they don't have one of a small handful of competitive race seats. With three-car teams there would be at least three, and possibly nine or more, drivers with a real chance of winning each race. (This year, Mercedes, Red Bull and Williams all look plausible race winners, for example). The championship battle could have been a three-way fight between Mercedes drivers, rather than a duel.

I think it would also make it more likely for major teams to put a young driver into a competitive seat, seeing a new talent debut in a competitive car is always exciting (Hamilton in 07, Ricciardo this year).

Only other thing I'd do would be to re-ban team orders, which only makes sense given the thrust of the regulations against teams telling drivers what to do at present anyway. Otherwise, a team having 'control' over three cars in the field would be too much power.

The biggest problem I see is that if only the top teams run a third car, that's another advantage to the rich teams. If all teams did, you could have either seven or eight teams (21 or 24 cars). I think that would lead to more exciting racing than what we have now (which isn't bad).

However, I've heard more negative opinions than positive, I'm interested in what people see as the drawbacks.

[FaultyMario]

What is the incentive for teams to field 3 cars if by dropping to 9 (or even 8 teams as Kalterborn has hinted) the commercial rights holder (Ecclestone) breaches contract and relinquishes its 100-year contract back to FIA. Wouldn't teams want to corner Bernie and thus renegotiate a better revenue-distribution scheme?

[Freude am Fahren]

I'm sure he has some shit on at least one of two teams to convince them to fall in line.

Also, how do constructor's points work with three cars? 2 best? Averages? Total?

[samoht]

My understanding is that while yes, it is Bernie who is on the hook for 20 cars to the track owners, he has some kind of secret rules that give him the power to oblige the teams to cough up a third car if required. Bernie said: "We have a regulation that says if we lose three teams the other teams will run three cars" - http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/9489556/-Teams-need-six-months-for-third-car-

[G'day Mate]

It'd be great to see three-car teams across the board, but I don't know if that's possible.

Which teams could do it? Presumably Ferrari, Red Bull, Mercedes and McLaren. Toro Rosso too? Are Williams still struggling for money these days? Do Force India have much behind them? Could the others happily combine and get along?

[Freude am Fahren]

I'd say Torro Rosso probably could with help from the Red Bull enterprise, which I presume is pretty much a blank check, as long as they stay behind the big boys.

Williams I couldn't see being able to do it without some huge deal being done, which given this years performance, could be a possibility. I would also assume that outside of maybe Ferrari, Mercedes, and Red Bull, the third drivers would likely be pay drivers.

[Alan P]

TBH it's WAY too late to even consider third cars for next year. The new car is more or less designed and all the Carbon Fibre stuff has been baked and cured already. To suddenly tell them to go back and make dozens more components for a third car is something that would normally take months. It's just not feasible at all to run a third car next year for the flyaway races as a minimum.

I'd expect Marussia to manage to stay on thanks to the points (point?) they got at Monaco meaning a significant amount of income at the end of the season. They're still teetering on the edge though. Caterham won't make it and will likely be sold to someone else and the 'mysterious and secret' buyers will try and make a profit on it but likely fail, Sauber have money problems too (although money from Russia is supposed to be coming in for Sirotkin) and Force India are nearly always skirting around going bust too.

TBH if they just allowed the selling of central tubs and floors to other teams they could have avoided all this. Part of the problem is the rules ('constructors' implies they construct the car themselves and there is other wording that would need removed to make it possible) and some teams, most noisily Williams recently, have always been dead set against it. It would be a bit crap to put your heart and soul (and £100's of millions) into a new car only for Dave Richards and Prodrive to buy the Red Bull from this year and beat them next season. They might see their folly when their budget jumps up by a third because they need to run 3 cars.

[FaultyMario]

I'm with the Scot on this one.

Lotus seem to be pretty bankrupt, too. The dismal season they're having is not what they had budgeted for, me thinks.

[Freude am Fahren]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the current rules prohibit a third car to be available ("T-Car"), but at least the big teams surely have the entire components to build a new car at each weekend if they need too. Other than the "chassis" monocoque, which I think they can only bring two, they have all the parts ready to go I'm sure. And surely the big teams have more than one spare monocoque at the factory, right? For Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull and maybe McLaren (though they deny), making a third monocoque and a 4th bit of spares race ready for 2015 would be doable I think, even if they means they don't have enough spares early in the season should they write one off.

I don't think that any 2015 chassis are made yet, and the components (wings, body panels, floors, etc) are updated on a monthly basis even for the middle of the road teams. I don't think it's too late at all. I think the limiting factor is money, not time. If only a couple of the teams need to field a third car, I don't see real problems. These are the top F1 teams. They operate at the very highest levels compared to any industry.

[Blerpa]

Fuck the third car, fuck the sales of satellite (like in MotoGP and WSBK) cars. Fuck road car manufacturers too. That's only I've to say about this crap.
Outlaw wind tunnels and ANY aero bit that isn't the essential down-to-the-chassis-a-5-year-old-can-draw-on-a-school-paper and be done with it.

[samoht]

Caterham won't make it

Indeed, it seems to have gone beyond rumours now:
http://thesheriffsoffice.com/articles/breaking-news-impending-sale-of-a-formula-one-vehicle-and-equipment

I hope very much that KK gets one last outing in front of his home crowd this weekend, at the least.

[XHawkeye]

@harrismonkey (https://twitter.com/harrismonkey/status/518310199590154241)
So Marchionne's first big move is to replace the best all-round driver in F1 with not the best all-round driver in F1. SUVs must come soon.

@harrismonkey (https://twitter.com/harrismonkey/status/518313459671240705)
RT @stuartg917: To be fair, I'd leave Red Bull if people started claiming I had anything to do with Infiniti road cars.

@willbuxton (https://twitter.com/willbuxton/status/518318461483626496)
Very, very good piece on Vettel's move to Ferrari and Alonso's final roll of the dice. Bravo @andrewbensonf1. http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29487931 …



http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29487931
Fernando Alonso's departure hands Sebastian Vettel big chance

How did it come to this?

The man most within Formula 1 acknowledge to be the best driver in the world should have been a natural fit with the sport's most famous team. Yet after five frustrating years, Fernando Alonso and Ferrari are divorcing.

And it is not as if Alonso has swapped his former dream partner for a younger, more attractive model, as he tried to do last season when he held serious talks with Red Bull, from where Ferrari have sourced his replacement in Sebastian Vettel.

Alonso has lost faith in Ferrari's ability to deliver him the third title he so desperately craves. But the sport's most formidable - and demanding - competitor has apparently cast in his lot with another struggling team, McLaren, where he already has a painful history.

The fact that he appears to be going back to the team with which he spent such an acrimonious season in 2007 is a measure of how badly things have gone awry between Alonso and Ferrari.

Seven years ago, Alonso had a major falling-out with McLaren chairman Ron Dennis, and was instrumental - inadvertently, to a degree - in the team being clobbered with a $100m fine for the infamous spy-gate episode, when their chief designer was found to be in possession of confidential Ferrari technical information. The two parties split only one year into a three-year contract.

Clearly, though, Alonso felt he had no choice but to leave Ferrari, despite the team embarking on a major restructuring under new team principal Marco Mattiacci and their highly rated English technical director James Allison, who rates Alonso as the best driver on the grid and was at Renault when he won his two world championships.

With Mercedes and Red Bull not interested in signing him, Alonso was left with only one place to go, unless he wants to retire or take a sabbatical.

In this, Honda has been instrumental. The Japanese company, which is returning to F1 with McLaren in 2015, had tried to sign Alonso for its own team last decade, before quitting at the end of 2008. Finally, it seems Honda has got its man, at the cost of a reputed $50m (£32.3m), which would make him the best-paid driver in F1 by a long way.

For all his frustration at Ferrari, Alonso will know that McLaren, chassis-wise, are in a much worse state this year - the Ferrari is quicker, at least in Alonso's hands, despite at least a 50bhp power deficit to the Mercedes engine McLaren will abandon in five races' time.

But having realised he cannot get a Mercedes engine, and believing Ferrari will not be competitive again in the near future, Alonso has decided his only chance to beat Mercedes is to bank on Honda getting it right, and on McLaren - in the midst of their own restructuring - sorting out their woes before Ferrari do.

On the face of it, abandoning Ferrari looks like a poor choice, but the same was said of Lewis Hamilton's decision to leave race-winning McLaren for struggling Mercedes at the end of 2012. And look how that turned out.

Equally, Ferrari insiders make no attempt to disguise how big their rebuilding job is, and talk privately about it being 2016 or 2017 before they can even hope to be properly competitive.

Alonso, at 33, realises time is beginning to run out on his career and felt he could not wait that long.

Vettel, on the other hand, can afford to do just that. He already has four titles in the bag, and at 27 has time on his side to invest in building a title-winning partnership with Ferrari, in much the same way as his compatriot and friend Michael Schumacher did 20 years ago.

Vettel has other reasons to leave the team that nurtured him from the age of 12.

He has been overshadowed by his new team-mate Daniel Ricciardo to an extent no-one could possibly have imagined this season, the Australian winning three races to Vettel's none.

For now, Vettel's four titles have won him some currency and his reputation remains reasonably intact, but another year of being humbled by Ricciardo and he would not have much of a value left to put on the market.

His relationship with Ferrari goes back a long way, though. Italian sources close to the team have insisted for some years that there has been a long-standing agreement between Vettel and Ferrari that he would go there in the near future, despite repeated denials by Red Bull and Vettel of any such arrangement.

From Ferrari's side, they have wanted to action it before, but this was the first time it suited both parties. Once Alonso made clear his wish to leave, Ferrari were happy to let him go as long as they could secure Vettel.

Vettel has a much sunnier demeanour than the broodingly intense Alonso. That should not be taken to mean he cannot throw his weight around when he feels the need - as numerous stories from inside Red Bull attest - but he is far less likely to make the sort of pointed comments in public that have sometimes caused friction with Alonso.

Ferrari do not like to be criticised in public, and in that sense one imagines a far more harmonious relationship with Vettel than has been the case with Alonso.

Alonso the driver is virtually peerless. But outside the cockpit his skills have been lacking. For all his undoubted intelligence and cunning, Alonso has not exactly excelled when it comes to making career choices over the years.

At the end of 2007, he turned to his McLaren colleagues as he walked out for the last time at the final race of the season and admitted it had all gone wrong because he had "lost it" during the year.

Had he kept himself under control that summer, and calmed the situation rather than worsened it, he may well have won the title - and the following one in 2008 as well, given Hamilton's up-and-down season that year.

Likewise, when Alonso left McLaren, he chose to go back to Renault, knowing a Ferrari deal was waiting for him a couple of years down the line. At the time, Red Bull - then still 18 months from the first win - wanted him, too. But they were insisting on a two-year commitment and Alonso wanted to make only one, so he turned them down.

Now he has made another critical choice and already there are those who know him well - both his fortes and his foibles - saying this is another example of Alonso acting on bad advice from those closest to him, whether it be his father, his adviser Flavio Briatore or someone else.

How can he expect it to work, many wonder, going back to an uncompetitive McLaren, where Dennis is again a key figure?

Alonso is a difficult and demanding character - some in F1 even say poisonous - and what he probably sees as requiring his teams to match the levels of effort and unstinting commitment he puts into his driving, some see as him being overly tough and unpleasant.

Dennis, although in many ways very different to Alonso, shares some of those characteristics. How can they not, many wonder, end up rubbing each other up the wrong way all over again?

But there is another potential end to this story. Perhaps, realising this is his last roll of the dice, Alonso will be different this time, aware that there is nowhere else to go, no other team who will have him.

With McLaren racing director Eric Boullier as a buffer between Alonso and Dennis - what the driver has been promised, I hear - perhaps the two men can rub along after all.

McLaren and Honda will not want for money and resources, and in Alonso they have a driver who can do things almost no-one else on the grid can.

If they worship him for that, and they each commit to each other, perhaps it will work after all.

If it doesn't, Alonso is likely to end his career with 'just' those two titles to his name, won long ago, when he emerged at the head of the new generation finally displacing Schumacher.

In some ways, the numbers mean nothing. The consistent excellence of Alonso's performances over the years - his speed, his repeatedly breathtaking overtaking moves, his sheer, bloody-minded relentlessness, his forcing of uncompetitive cars into places they don't belong - has long since rendered irrelevant the statistical disparities between his career and, say, Vettel's.

But in other ways, especially to Alonso himself, the statistics mean a lot.

It is the fact that his hero Ayrton Senna won three championships that makes the number so important to him, so it is fitting that it is to the team with which Senna achieved his greatest success that Alonso now turns to achieve his own aim.

He admitted in a BBC Sport interview earlier this year that to end his career without winning another title would be "sad".

Given the level of his ability, it would be more than that; in many ways, it would be a travesty, one that meant when he looked back on his career there would always be regret mixed in with the justifiable pride.

@AxisOfOversteer (https://twitter.com/AxisOfOversteer/status/518400904639574017)
Lauda was awesome: We need wide tires, huge wings, 1000hp so you shit yourself through EauRouge. then 17yo will not be able to drive them


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mK_cTgOzlo0

[FaultyMario]

How about this: Domenicalli grows a VAG and would possibly head a F1 project (Bugatti, maybe) or a Ducati effort into MotoGP.

[FaultyMario]

Does that mean that Fred can sit 2015 out and driving WEC?

[Alan P]

How about this: Domenicalli grows a VAG and would possibly head a F1 project (Bugatti, maybe) or a Ducati effort into MotoGP.

If VAG were going to do F1 (and they've made noises but never have done anything truly meaningful about it) it would either be Audi against Mercedes or Lamborghini against Ferrari. Although seeing Skoda in F1 would be quite amusing.

[Freude am Fahren]

Audi has officially denied rumors of imminent F1 involvement on facebook, mentioning their commitement to WEC, DTM, and GT racing.

So that pretty much settles it. Expect to see them on the grid in 2016.

[FaultyMario]

This happened.

919

Oliver Turvey's shakedown of a brand new McLaren-Honda.

[The359]

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/bahrain-pre-race-notebook/

Alonso's hanging out at the FIA WEC race in Bahrain with the series organizers, chatting it up with Webber.

Porsche's line-up is set, but Toyota may be shuffling things around, and Nissan need drivers.

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B25lDUzIgAEHiP1.jpg:large

That internet, it's cruel and heartless place :) #F1

https://twitter.com/AxisOfOversteer/status/535476514285162496

[Crazed_Insanity]

That's awesome! :D

However, Kimi for sure made the right move to leave Lotus. As for the 4 time champion, he probably doesn't care if he wins more or not. Winning more certainly would be a nice bonus. Worst case scenario, he probably wouldn't mind retiring in a Ferrari... plus, I think Vettel doesn't want to face another repeat of getting beaten by his younger teammate.

Personally I think Vettel's career is finished..., yeah, RB has let him down on several occasions this season, but to be completely beaten by a younger teammate certainly ruined his confidence a bit. Now that he left, I guess we'll never know if this season had been Vettel's off season or perhaps Ricciardo is just really that good!

[FaultyMario]

Eddie "The Insider" Jordan claims that there is indeed a Vag rocket in the pipes, thrusting forward to come in 2017 and is headed by a certain Mr. Brawn.

[Freude am Fahren]

Brawn? Didn't they just pick up Domenicali (with rumors for that purpose)?

Certainly would help fill the field as it seems like only manufacturer budgets are going to thrive in this formula (which is never a good thing).

[Alan P]

Domenicali was indeed hired by Audi but not for any motorsport related job they said. Of course they can give him whatever title they like and ask him to do just about anything.

Personally I won't believe it until I see Audi's name on the FIA Entry list as then they'll have paid their bond to the FIA to guarantee entry.

[XHawkeye]

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/ferrari-in-2014/


Mattiacci and Alonso – the real story

There are obvious parallels between Ferrari’s 2014 season and that of 1991. In both cases the team boss left part-way through the year and was replaced by a man who then opted not to continue with arguably the team’s biggest asset, its superstar lead driver. Even more bizarrely, the new boss was gone within weeks of losing the driver, replaced by yet another boss.

Going into ’91 team boss Cesare Fiorio and Alain Prost were openly hostile, this going back to the latter being quoted the previous year as saying Ferrari didn’t deserve to win the championship after Fiorio refused to apply team orders to aid Prost’s cause. Into ’91 championships weren’t the bone of contention – the Ferrari 643 was not a car even Prost could make into a race winner, let alone a title challenger. Fiorio was fired mid-season, replaced by Marco Piccinini, who was presiding over the running of the team when Prost was fired, ostensibly for daring the criticise the car. A few weeks after that and Piccinini was gone – to be replaced by Luca di Montezemelo. The parallels with 2014 are remarkable, are they not?

The circle of time has taken 23 years to complete a full revolution. In 2014, substitute the F14T for the 643, di Montezemelo for Fiorio, Fernando Alonso for Prost, Marco Mattiacci for Piccinini – and Maurizio Arrivabene for di Montezemelo! It illustrates that things work in a very specific way at Maranello regardless of who the actual people are. The dynamics of Italian corporate politics remain the same and the pressure for the team to be competitive is enormous; both from within Italy and from the powers of F1. More than any other team, a fall from competitive grace is intolerable. Its name carries too much weight for that to be OK.

But in 2014 there has been an additional pressure: the floatation of the Fiat-Chrysler group on the New York stock exchange. Ferrari is the halo brand of that corporation, F1 is the main shop window for Ferrari. It was a bad, bad time to be seriously under-performing, potentially costing billions. Had it been competing at the level it did at any time from 2008 onwards – competitive and race-winning even if the world title proved narrowly elusive – the team could probably have withstood this level of scrutiny. But the F14T was too far off for that to be possible and so the structure began to buckle.

Just as in ’91, the instrument of that pressure was the management of parent company Fiat; substitute Sergio Marchionne for Gianni Agnelli. Into such a combustible mix, having one of the world’s greatest drivers trying only to get things how he needed them to be from a racing perspective provided the lethal spark. Alonso, just like Prost, was seeing the prime time of his career being squandered by poor management decisions and was feeling understandably frustrated and powerless. Alonso, just like Prost, responded by demanding more of a say in how things were run.

The Ferrari management of 2014 – just as that of 1991 – could not tolerate, nor be seen to tolerate, such a threat to their authority when they themselves were under such scrutiny. Furthermore the very stature of the driver, the widespread recognition of his level as one of the greatest, was only adding to the intolerable pressure upon the under-performing team. So Mattiacci let Alonso go, just as Piccinini had done Prost. For reasons seemingly unrelated to the loss of the driver, Fiat then decided it had an agenda for Ferrari that someone else could better fulfil than the current chief. Lots of blood and intrigue, just as in all the best Italian dramas.

There are a couple of crucial differences this time around – and the following comes from talking to many of those involved behind the scenes on condition of non-attribution (i.e. OK to use the information, but not to be quoted). One difference between the 1991 and 2014 situations is that Alonso had already been trying to leave the team. However, by the time of Montezemelo’s departure Fernando was beginning to think he might be better placed staying around for at least another year. The logic of that thinking was easy to understand: there was nothing available in 2015 at Red Bull or Mercedes, the obvious prime seats for him.

His manager Flavio Briatore had through the summer tried in vain to engineer an exchange deal – Lewis Hamilton for Alonso between Mercedes and Ferrari – that foundered on Mercedes boss Toto Wolff not wanting to disturb the equilibrium of the Hamilton/Rosberg line-up. For all that they had their competitive niggles this year, there was no poison between Lewis and Nico; neither of them has the sort of dominating personality that leads to that. Bringing Alonso in would, believed Toto, have ramifications upon the functioning of the team that didn’t fit in with how he wanted to run things.

Furthermore, Hamilton himself would have been unlikely to have agreed to the deal even had it been suggested to him. As Briatore had been working on this deal, Mattiacci was trying to get Alonso to extend for an extra three years beyond 2016. The Ferrari boss absolutely understood the value of having arguably the world’s number one driver on side, but Alonso consistently declined to take up the extension offer.

Alonso was therefore left with the McLaren option. One year deal, suggested Fernando. Multi-year or no deal responded Ron Dennis. That potentially left Alonso out of sync should a Mercedes seat become available after the end of 2015, as Hamilton’s current contract expired.

So there was a very sound logic to his trying to repair the bridges at Ferrari, to stay there for one more year. Besides, the 2015 Ferrari has every chance of being much more competitive than the F14T; the more obvious of the power unit’s shortfalls are an easy fix but just couldn’t be done during the season because of the homologation rules whilst the car itself will be the first to have been conceived from the start under the aegis of James Allison, the gifted technical director.

Hence Alonso’s meeting with Mattiacci between the Singapore and Japan races. But going into that meeting there was a vital piece of information Alonso and his manager did not possess, but Mattiacci did: Sebastian Vettel – who had a long-term informal agreement that he would give Ferrari first call on his services should he leave Red Bull – had a clause in his Red Bull contract that would allow him to leave a year earlier than its full term (which was until the end of 2015) if he was below third in the championship before a specified cut-off date. That contractual window was about to close shortly after the Japanese Grand Prix. Alonso and Briatore incorrectly assumed that Vettel was committed to Red Bull until the end of 2015.

.......

[Freude am Fahren]

So have the rumors of Seb sandbagging it this year in order to leave for Ferrari started heating up yet? :assclown:

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, it really doesn't make sense to see the 4 time champ to be so badly beaten like that. Still, sandbagging it to get a Mercedes ride would make more sense. Yeah, Ferrari is a big name, but not doing very well at the moment and probably won't be for a while considering all the changes that had happened recently... I don't think he is the kind of team leader/builder Micheal Schumacher was...

True racer probably would want to sign up with the most competitive team, right? Further, if I were him, I'd want to stick around and kick Daniel's ass next season rather than running away like that... anyway, if he really could just hop over to Ferrari and deliver 4 more titles and beat Schuey's record, then I'm sure nobody will remember that Riciardo kicked his sandbags this year...

[Blerpa]

Esteban Gutierrez is officially the new Ferrari F1 team tester and 3rd (reserve, then) driver.

[FaultyMario]

Gene Haas to bid on Marussia's assets auction.

Nice play, me thinks. Now he should go and grab a couple of ex-Manor employees to make the reverse-engineer faster.

[overpowered]

Button manages to keep his seat. It's Magnussen who's having to give up his seat to Alonso. A lot of people were predicting otherwise but Button did outscore Magnussen by more than 2:1. Still, he did a very good job for a rookie considering that the car wasn't all that great. He only had one retirement all season and that was a mechanical. I suspect he'll find another drive, though maybe not this year.

I feel a little sorry for Vergne. He did quite a bit better than Kvyat this year but Kvyat still got the promotion and he got the boot.

[Alan P]

Apparently Jenson is on a 1 year drive and 1 year option deal. Could be they'll say 'no thanks Jenson' at the end of next season.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, two opposite plans there, with McLaren going on the numbers, and Red Bull going for youth (not that JEV is young, but he's not 17 :lol:). Tough call for McLaren (no wonder it took so long). Yeah Jensen out performs Magnussen, but Kevin did really well for a rookie, and should have a promising future in the sport. With bringing in Alonso, I'm kinda surprised they didn't go for the combo of Experience and Youth, rather than just too experienced drivers. My guess is they need all the help they can get next year to develop a car and score some points to try to return to better form. Had they had more relative success in the last five years, they could have gambled a bit, and I bet the kid would have stayed (and maybe no Alonso). Also, I wonder about Honda's input about the same idea: results now.

[Random]

Magnussen's got a great learning opportunity here, if nothing else. :)

[Blerpa]

Magnussen is the official McLaren tester and third (reserve) driver, so I don't get why you are all getting worried about him.
In 2 years time both Alonso and Button will be out of McLaren, Button maybe even before. So he is covered.
And Vandhoorne too. McLaren team right now needs only to develop a great car and a good engine.

[Freude am Fahren]

Ah, missed that bit where he was still with them.

[Reynard]

I feel a little sorry for Vergne. He did quite a bit better than Kvyat this year but Kvyat still got the promotion and he got the boot.

Am I the only one watching Formula E? Well JEV was on pole in his debut last weekend and was taking it too is former rival Seb Buemi but had a mechanical right at the end and DNF'd unfortunately. He might have to work on his power management a bit though as even if he didn't have the problem, I think he may have run out of juice before finishing anyway. Anyway I like the guy and am glad to be able to still see him race.

[overpowered]

I'm also curious about how Alonso and Dennis will get along. They didn't the last time around.

[Freude am Fahren]

Nurburgring out for 2015. Hockenheim will probably host.

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/nurburgring-loses-2015-formula-one-german-grand-prix

[FaultyMario]

Rumors say Hirohide Hamashima was working for Alonso and not necessarily for Ferrari. And thus his departure. From the sounds of it, they're embracing the changes SV has asked of the organization.

[FaultyMario]

I don't know if it's going to be Panamerican or just mostly in the U.S., but there's a FIA Formula 4 America coming our way.

[FaultyMario]

Nurburgring out for 2015. Hockenheim will probably host.

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/nurburgring-loses-2015-formula-one-german-grand-prix


Forgot to comment on that bit. I'd rather see the Nurburgring survive as a track/motorsports complex than take on a limited viability enterprise. F1 seems like way too much money for very little in return.

[Kchrpm]

I figured this fits better here than the F1 launch thread. Looks pretty Mach 6-ish, which means I like it.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/nl6oyfbmkrmthq3zffm0.jpg

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/zfllro9nv7i547nzhk3j.jpg

[FaultyMario]

No, it's not from a DeviantArt user. (http://f1concept.ferrari.com/)

[Kchrpm]

Red Bull replied to Ferrari posting that by re-posting their Gran Turismo car.

[FaultyMario]

Saisón sillý:

MAMGF1 - HAM : ROS
SF - VET : RAI
WMF1 - MAS : BOT
RBR - ??? (RIC : KVY)
SFI - ??? : HUL
Enstone - ??? : MAL
STR - ??? (SAI : VES)
Sauber - NSR : ERI
McLaren - ALO : MAG
Manor - ??? (Palmer : Rossi)
Haas - GRO : GUT

[FaultyMario]

Haas - GRO : GUT

First half confirmed.

American F1 team with freedom driver?

[Alan P]

Saisón sillý:

MAMGF1 - HAM : ROS
SF - VET : RAI
WMF1 - MAS : BOT
RBR - ??? (RIC : KVY)
SFI - ??? : HUL
Enstone - ??? : MAL
STR - ??? (SAI : VES)
Sauber - NSR : ERI
McLaren - ALO : MAG
Manor - ??? (Palmer : Rossi)
Haas - GRO : GUT

If, as expected, Manor get a tie in with Mercedes it's expected that Pascal Wehrlein will get the drive. Talk that McLaren and Button are just arguing over wages and Jenson is calling Ron's bluff. Two world champions has a lot more sponsor clout than one and a relative unknown to the general public.

[FaultyMario]

You think there's any real possibility of JB going to Enstone?

[Freude am Fahren]

Nah. IF he was going to go anywhere else, maybe. He has a history, they could use a good seasoned driver to go along with Crashtor. But I think he'd retire first.

[FaultyMario]

He wants to keep racing and he knows it'd be his last season.

Thus why he didn't announce anything in Japan. He feels he deserves a certain level of salary plus he doesn't want to race Manors again. He's holding out because he knows that McLaren sponsors are paying for a team with WDC-driven cars.

On a related note, Arai needs to go, yesterday.

And the other development related to engines, RBR would accept 2015 Spec-B Ferrari engines but would then vote against in-season engine development past Feb-28, so as to not have too large a deficit against Mercedes/Ferrari, they know they did succeed with a Renault V8 that was 5~10% down on power. If they can't do that, they will leave.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If I were Jenson, I'd add an exit clause stating that if Honda is still around back of the pack after 1st couple of races, then I'm free to go.

[FaultyMario]

F1 driver contracts are said to be around 80 pages long. I'd assume if you are getting seven figures in € you can afford some lawyer time to have those kinds of clauses in.

[Alan P]

I'd imagine a lot of that will be stuff about image rights, how many days they have to devote to sponsor duties etc. McLaren have always been big on their drivers not having many personal sponsors and doing a lot of Sponsor work for the team rather than personally. That was apparently one of the issues Lewis had with McLaren, personal image rights.

[FaultyMario]

And the reason why Button is calling Ron's bluff. Driver salaries are paid for by sponsors and team 50/50 at McLaren.

[Alan P]

Button confirmed for next season.
Manor to have Mercedes Engines, and 2016 ones too, all season. Also buying rear suspension setup and gearboxes from Williams.
No word on drivers as yet but there's talk of Wehrlein, Merc's test driver getting a seat but both Manor and Mercedes have said the deal isn't conditional on him getting one of the seats.

Could also mean that Mercedes did it just to say to Red Bull 'sorry we don't have any spare capacity to produce more engines' and if as expected engine costs become fixed then Mercedes could conceivably say 'sorry, we'll lose too much money so it's not financially viable for us'.

The potential 'Current-1' rule looks to be dead in the water as it wasn't mentioned at all in anything that came out after the recent meeting. Compare that to a way to make cars louder which was discussed.

So, what will Red Bull do next? There was talk that Torro Rosso had already signed an engine deal with Honda, but I'm not sure about that at all.

http://www.thisisf1.com/2015/09/23/toro-rosso-could-race-with-honda-engines-in-f1-2016/

[Godson]

What's the deal with arai????

[Freude am Fahren]

Kevin Magnussen has been released by McLaren. Haas rumors point towards Esteban Gutierrez, but I wouldn't rule out the Dane.

[FaultyMario]

Does anyone know who has to fulfill rbr's 2020 commitment?

B/c james allen says that a deal could be brokered to have horner take care of a skeleton crew'd milton keynes squad in order to let mateschitz not pay the huge fines.

[Freude am Fahren]

Can't they just sell like so many before them. Surely there's someone out the with too much money ready to jump in. ie Stewart, Brawn, Honda, Jaguar, Toyota, Renault, etc.? I doubt the Milton Keynes outfit would just disappear, right?

Or does Red Bull actually have a sponsorship contract or something?

[FaultyMario]

It kinda evens out between historic payments, wcc bonuses and the reported 50M/year fine.

[FaultyMario]

Make it so Porsche. Fatso equaling Lord Mustacho (http://cdn-2.motorsport.com/static/img/amp/600000/650000/651000/651300/651302/s6_665806/wec-austin-2015-alexander-hitzinger-lmp1-technical-director-with-juan-pablo-montoya.jpg) would be the tits.

[FaultyMario]

Bernie asks Honda for a favor, supply RBR with 2016 engines and I will give you more tokens. Maybe more money to Ron to appease him? STR takes Ferrari 2015 B-spec engines. For 2017 RBR makes the quadruple "O face" or put the other prancing horse on their nose, they're supposedly working on a deal to pay for the development of the F1 PU. Or so says AMuS (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/red-bull-honda-motor-2016-10214736.html)

[Crazed_Insanity]

What a mess. Imagine if Honda excels next season, it won't just be McLaren that's pissed, but also Mercedes and Ferrari due to the extra tokens Honda received!

However, chances are, Honda will likely still be running near the back... and how will Red Bull feel running behind Torro Rosso all year long?

From Red Bull's perspective, you already refused a proven Ferrari B-spec engine, but you're willing to accept Honda engine? Why would you choose a higher risk option as an interim solution?

Red Bull really should just stick to designing a superior car and employing fast drivers and accept a slightly inferior but proven engine for now.

[Freude am Fahren]

Perhaps they don't want to play by some of Ferrari's rules for being a customer, and Honda is more open (or cheaper) given the possibility of leeway by the FIA.

So apaprently it's rainy down in Austin (I think it's even become part of this superstorm off Mexico), which could be very bad. Rainy F1 races are good, but monsoons are bad, and if the WEC race a year or two ago is what we have to look forward to, it wont be good. Also, flash flooding/landslides are bad in that area.

[overpowered]

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/red-bull-boss-keeping-teams-2016-engine-manufacturer-mystery

[Freude am Fahren]

Some interesting wording there. See what it will be "called" and that Ron Dennis won't be happy. If in fact Honda can't supply them, which it would seem. Maybe we'll see a Honda badged something else, or a something else badged Honda?

[Crazed_Insanity]

Switching from Infiniti to Acura... maybe Lexus will come back in the future? ;)

[Alan P]

Some suggestions Ron may not be happy as the engine might be badged a Nissan and therefore might tempt some Japanese sponsors that he would like on the McLaren with the Honda link.

[MR2 Fan]

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/the-mclaren-mp4-x-concept-is-a-radical-vision-of-racing-1745967018

[Kchrpm]

Lovely of them to draw it up, similar to Red Bull's effort at the same thing, hopefully it will likewise make it into a video game.

Hopefully the true effort of this, to show off their design and engineering ideas in an effort to get additional customers outside of racing, will pay off, and they'll have even more money to invest into their racing and road car development.

[FaultyMario]

1536

[XHawkeye]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVqvtfYUwAAPwWz.png:large

2017 F1 cars will be wider, longer and run with bigger tyres. #F1 #Formula1
https://f1source.wordpress.com/2015/12/08/2017-formula-1-cars-will-be-longer-wider-run-bigger-tyres/ …

[CudaMan]

Overtaking will be more difficult. (DRS aside)

But, they'll be proper fast, so there's that. :up:

[Phil_SS]

Hopefully the wider tires and wider wheel to wheel track will provide more mechanical traction and lead to more overtaking.

[Alan P]

Hopefully the wider tires and wider wheel to wheel track will provide more mechanical traction and lead to more overtaking.

Sadly it also includes wider front wings and a return to the wide and low rear wings which meant that DRS had to be introduced to try and get more overtaking done on track. I can't see much changing and, if anything, it getting worse.

[FaultyMario]

I don't know why they couldn't keep the car length or shorten it by a couple of inches. Also the high, narrow rear wing was a must.

[FaultyMario]

Also, wouldn't less aero reliance on the front wing and more on the nose-keel-splitter assembly be desirable for closer racing? I say trade front wing width for more open rules on midship aero.

[FaultyMario]

They say Haas's car will be:

Giallo Fly Yellow

[FaultyMario]

2017 Teams and drivers:

Mercedes -
Hamilton
Rosberg

RedBull -
Ricciardo
Versappen

Ferrari-
Vettel
Raikkonen

Force India -
Hulkenberg
Perez

Williams-
Bottas
TBA

McLaren -
Alonso
Vandoorne

Toro Rosso -
Sainz
TBC

Haas -
Grosjean
TBA

Renault -
TBA
TBA

Manor -
TBA
TBA

Sauber -
TBA
TBA

[Freude am Fahren]

Are these confirmed, rumored or your thoughts?

[FaultyMario]

Confirmed. I think Grosjeand does not have a contract yet.

[FaultyMario]

Also, the case for Gutiérrez should be sound in terms of sponsorship money and merch revenue.

[Kchrpm]

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/formula-one-just-got-bought-1786342443

Formula One purchased.

[dodint]

Shenanigans.

18.7%? Not enough to kill off that crotchety old bastard.

This is a non-event.

[Alan P]

Apparently he was asked to stay on for another three years. :(

He was exactly what F1 needed when manufacturers and private teams couldn't agree on what time it was, never mind about Formula 1 but he should have left years ago. Thanks to him F1 has very little Social Media presence and he has no interest in 'yoof' because they don't by Rolex's or drive Mercedes cars. He doesn't care that it's building the brands so when they CAN afford a hideously expensive (and likely hideous) watch they'll think of a Rolex, because he's 86 (or close to it) so is only interested in now.

[FaultyMario]

2017 Teams and drivers:

Mercedes -
Hamilton
Rosberg

RedBull -
Ricciardo
Versappen

Ferrari-
Vettel
Raikkonen

Force India -
Perez
Ocon

Williams-
Bottas
Stroll

McLaren -
Alonso
Vandoorne

Toro Rosso -
Sainz
Kvyat

Haas -
Grosjean
[Kmag, likely]

Renault -
Hulkenberg
Palmer

Manor -
TBA
TBA

Sauber -
TBA [Ericsson, with chance]
TBA [Nasr, mostly]

[Alan P]

Hearing that Ocon is as good as confirmed at FI. Not sure what that means for Wehrlein mind you. He was previously Mercedes' golden boy so if anyone I'd have expected him to go there. Unless Benz have helped Manor out more than just an engine deal and they expect them to be far more competitive next year and will leave Pascal there.

[FaultyMario]

If I were MB I'd give him 3rd driver status at the factory team, to get him up to speed with teamsteem if there's chance of a promotion in '18.

[FaultyMario]

You are correct about Ocon.

[Alan P]

If I were MB I'd give him 3rd driver status at the factory team, to get him up to speed with teamsteem if there's chance of a promotion in '18.

Then he likely won't actually drive next year at all. They could leave him at Manor.

[Freude am Fahren]

Magnussen has been confirmed at Haas. I hope he can live up to the promise he showed earlier in his career. His name also carries some weight in the US with Jan's huge success in Corvettes.

[Alan P]

All Gunter Steiner would say was 'multi year deal' which usually means 2 years with a years option in the third year.

Also it seems that FI were offered Pascal or Esteban and decided on Esteban, saying he was better to work with and get feedback from.

[Kchrpm]

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/formula-one-wont-be-double-booked-over-the-24-hours-of-1789524513

No F1 race on LeMans weekend next year :up:

[FaultyMario]

Yes. and it seems that Tavo Hellmund (original promoter and builder of COTA) is buying Manor. He wants to setup a Tex-Mex team. That probably means British Engineering, American Marketing and Slim's funding.

[Freude am Fahren]

So with Nico gone, who's in at Mercedes? Wehrlein?

[FaultyMario]

Or Ocon.

Stopgap measure.

He's been suggested as the comedy option, but I think Pastor would be a sensible choice.
Make it clear to him he's #2 driver and give him a fast car.

[dodint]

If I could pick anyone it'd be the other Nico, Hulkenberg. The guy deserves a legit ride, he's becoming the new Heidfeld.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, I'd agree, but he already signed with Renault, right? I suppose that doesn't mean much these days.

[dodint]

I don't think anyone is off the table really. I mean, the biggest issue is who plays the nicest with the baby in the other car.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, though you would have thought quite little reliable Nico Rosberg would have been a good fit a few years ago...

[Alan P]

It will either be Bottas with an engine discount/Wehrlein for Williams, maybe even both, or Pascal straight into Mercedes. Apparently Lewis did eight laps at the Abu Dhabi tyre test and the Pascal completed the rest of the test. Lewis put a line in the sand and then Mercedes get to see how fast Pascal is? He's known by the team, has done a few tests with the team and is a Mercedes young driver.

[FaultyMario]

The problem is that Wehrlein is not very good at giving engineers the feedback they need. Or at least that was the reason Force India gave for taking Ocon instead.

[G'day Mate]

I hope it's Alonso - that will be fun

[Alan P]

As much as I would like it to be someone, it will either be Bottas or Wehrlein. I really cannot see anyone else being free or able in Mercedes' eyes. The only potential issue is Williams will want an experienced driver alongside Stroll so may be unwilling to let Bottas go. Wehrlein doesn't count as experienced too me.

[The359]

I wonder if any serious consideration is being made for Audi LMP refugees. Lucas di Grassi has F1 experience, and Loic Duval is a former Formula Nippon champion.

[FaultyMario]

Out of the non-F1 crowd I think they'd go with DiResta or Maldonado first.

[balki]

(if they still had their 2014 and 2015 advantage) they should get a chimp to stick it to Ferrari when it finishes as part of a 1-2 ahead of a ranting Vettel

[Reynard]

My wish, however improbable, is that Lance somehow buys his way into that Merc seat. Then I would relish the thought of seeing if Lewis handles that situation any better then Fernando did 9 years ago. ;)

[Godson]

Money is on....Bottas.

Which sucks, because I like Bottas.

[Crazed_Insanity]

My money is on Jenson Button returning to his 'home' team, but if they are really going to make a 'brave' decision, then it sounds like they're really interested in Alonso..., but Jenson is really the most ideal choice. A Proven champion able to work well with Lewis.

[Alan P]

Bottas seems to be the place most people are moving towards. Which leaves Williams in a bit of a bind because they'll want an experienced number 1 in their team. I suppose it could be Button going 'home' but I can't see that he'd be up for it. He seemed very happy with his decision in Abu Dhabi. Which still leaves Williams struggling. Wehrlein is not experienced enough. Or, I think, actually good enough.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Button just can't be bothered by another struggling team I don't think..., but might be motivated enough with a winning car.,. The perfect interim solution.

[FaultyMario]

2017 Teams and drivers:

Mercedes -
Hamilton
Bottas (he's been fitted, I'm sure it's a lawyercraft now)

RedBull -
Ricciardo
Versappen

Ferrari-
Vettel
Raikkonen

Force India -
Perez
Ocon

Williams-
Massa
Stroll

McLaren -
Alonso
Vandoorne

Toro Rosso -
Sainz
Kvyat

Haas -
Grosjean
Magnussen

Renault -
Hulkenberg
Palmer

Manor -
TBA
TBA

Sauber -
Wehrlein - Confirmed
TBA [Nasr, Ericsson]