Solar battery electroluminscent dynamo charger lighting system.

[thesameguy]

I was going to post this in the cycling thread, but it really seems like that place is more about riding bicycles and less about turning them into light shows.

I'm fairly decent with electrical things, but I really don't know that much about electrical circuits and I'm trying to figure out an optimal way to power a light using some combination of generated and stored energy. Obviously, I could just use batteries - that's a given. But that means having batteries and changing them, which sounds annoying.

Originally my plan was to use LEDs for light, but now I am thinking about using EL wire or panels instead - because my need for light is more about being seen rather than being able to see. EL wire seems a lot more energy efficient for the level of brightness it produces - it won't cast usable light, but it makes easy to see light. I've read that four AA batteries can drive 8-16' of EL wire for 6-10 hours - EL wire taking less than 10ma per 3'. That covers me. Now where I am left is how to keep the power coming...

I was originally thinking about using an old school tire-driven dynamo to run the wire and/or charge the batteries... the batteries being useful when not in motion or moving too slowly - seems like 6v dynamos only need about 4mph to start producing voltage. What I don't know is if anything special has to be done in the dynamo -> batteries -> inverter circuit to prevent the dynamo from draining batteries when it's moving slowly or to actually charge the batteries once the dynamo is producing current. Anyway, that's one idea.

My second idea is to use a solar panel on the bike to charge the batteries during the day, and just run the EL off batteries at night. That's a lot simpler, but totally eliminates the possibility of recharging the batteries if it comes down to it.

Anyone have any other ideas or know enough about electrons to help with this?

[George]

I got nuthin' but you might try this place:

http://www.bikeforums.net/electronics-lighting-gadgets/

[thesameguy]

Seems there are a mess of instructables for people doing this - converting small AC voltages to DC, often in this exact scenario. I have about zero doubt I could build one of them, but I've got three weeks to assemble the parts and make it work and lots of other stuff to do. But I did find this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150668573310

which *looks* like it's all the guts of one of those instructables already made, for about $10 more than the parts cost. I like that. If it can really produce 3-5w it's more than enough to drive, say, 12' of EL and still charge the batteries. That's dope!

If that works, I'd be stoked. Otherwise, it's going to be some sort of portable solar battery charger.

[thesameguy]

Maybe some stuff from here...

http://www.adafruit.com/categories/67

[Random]

Using those flexible panels on (or as) a hat would be sweet.

[thesameguy]

What I wanted to do way back when I first started thinking about this was make something like this:

http://crispgreen.com/files/2011/05/bike-canopy-1.jpg

covered in those flexible cells. Drive around in the shade charging things. :D

I don't think I have the time or money for that level of creativity at this point. :(

[Random]

A coolie hat with panels might work.

They are a bit of a sail, though, which would suck on the playa.

[overpowered]

If you just want to be seen, then cheap tire driven dynamos will work.

If you actually want to see where you're going and you're willing to spend a bit of money on a hub generator and a good light, you can do much MUCH better though.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Schmidt.asp
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt-headlights.asp

Hub generators are far more efficient and quieter.

On the other hand, battery powered LED's are pretty cheap these days and also very bright, but you do have to deal with the hassle of keeping them charged.

http://www.niterider.com/2015-sport-led-bike-lights/lumina-750/
http://cygolite.com/products/hotshot_2w.html

[Random]

http://robreiz.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/bicycle.jpg

I think that's the type of effect he's going for.

[Crazed_Insanity]

A Tron bike? Cool.

Wish I know how to help... ;)

[thesameguy]

Talked with the guy selling that thingy on ebay - it's exactly what I thought it was. You take a dynamo (bottle, hub, chain, whatever) and it converts the vac output into vdc at fed into four AA NiCads. The batteries can power the lights when the bike isn't moving, and the dynamo can recharge the batteries when the bike is moving.

It's exactly what I wanted. I feel bad about not building it, but getting together all the supplies seemed like a big distraction. Paying someone $10 per box to do it for me. Plus, I had $80 "ebay bucks" expiring on Saturday - "earned" from buying a server for work a few months ago. FRIZZLE!

OP: Seeing where I'm going isn't a requirement - the playa is pretty brightly lit. The goal is for other people to clearly see a bike at night. That's why I decided to switch from LEDs to EL - I don't need to cast light, and for ambient brightness EL is very efficient.

Now I just need to find a pair of dynamos... and decide whether to go 12v or 6v. Either would work, but a 12v dynamo would charge the batteries faster.

... and if this goes as easily as I think it will, maybe consider how to get electricity onto a spinning wheel. Some sort of contact finger, no doubt.

[Kchrpm]

Sometimes I think tsg is my spirit animal.

[thesameguy]

NEAT STUFF FOR EVERYONE!

[Kchrpm]

You need to have the lights pulse to whatever music is playing, too.

[thesameguy]

I looked into that - it's too expensive. With LEDs it would be easier, but creating that much ambient light with LEDs is electricity-expensive - I can get a lot of light from EL for 7-10 hours out of 4 AAs, whereas the same power would only run LEDs for 2-4. Unfortunately, EL wire can't really dim dynamically, it's on or off. I thought about doing an animation effect by turning strands of wire on or off sequentially, but the quickest way to do that costs about $60 (using an Arduino) and that makes my lighting project just too damned expensive... and then I'm back to time-consuming soldering and programming.

On the subject of project creep, I wish the dynamo rectifier put out 12v, because I would LOVE to integrate this thing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-2-4G-Bluetooth-Relay-Android-Mobile-Remote-control-for-Light-Switch-Lock-NET-/281213623888

Turning on and off the lights remotely with Bluetooth would rule.

I thought about strapping a 12v lead-acid battery to the bike to power everything, but even small UPS batteries weigh 3-5lbs, and they would totally mess up the bike's CoG. Heh. I'm Lame.

[thesameguy]

I'm thinking copper foil tape along the rim, with a 'spring' of copper from the fork riding on it. I wonder if the spring will wear the tape, and/or if a spring delicate enough to not wear the tape will carry 100v/10ma? I think the answer is yes, as I recall that wire gauge is only relative to amps, not volts. Shouldn't need much wire to carry 10ma. I wonder if a bare aluminum rim would actually be an adequate conductor for that... maybe just use the brakes!

[overpowered]

http://robreiz.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/bicycle.jpg

I think that's the type of effect he's going for.Are you required to be on ecstasy while riding that?

[thesameguy]

Man, it's really hard to buy a good dynamo in this country. In Europe, no worries... all we have here are rebrands of the same imported, stuff.

For one week it's really not that big of a deal, but the price difference between what we've got and what's available in Europe is so small it makes me sick. Bah.

[Random]

Dynamo-powered lights were required on all our bikes in Switzerland...in the late 80s! :) Most locally sourced bikes had a boss welded onto the frame, in fact. Our lame-ass American bikes had to use a dorky universal mount. :(

[Rare White Ape]

I guess this is the sort of 'thing' that rampant freedom allows.

[thesameguy]

NOW YOU GET IT.

MonkeyLights look pretty cool:

http://www.amazon.com/Monkey-Light-M232-Bike-Waterproof/dp/B0081UDLDY/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1406825307&sr=1-1&keywords=monkeylight

[Kchrpm]

You HAVE to get those.

Now I want a bike...

[thesameguy]

I am pretty sure that's a done deal.

Actually, this bike project has been on my to-do list for a long time. We've wanted comfortable cruiser bikes (we have mountain bikes) for riding around downtown for years, but never pulled it together. Now we legitimately need them, so they'll find future use for sure. MonkeyLights are just way too awesome to not have.

They sort of solve the need to get electricity to the wheel, but they add additional batteries to manage. It's a mixed blessing. But, as long as the "main" dynamo powered lights are always available it's okay if the MonkeyLights eventually go dim.

[21Kid]

NOW YOU GET IT.

MonkeyLights look pretty cool:

http://www.amazon.com/Monkey-Light-M232-Bike-Waterproof/dp/B0081UDLDY/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1406825307&sr=1-1&keywords=monkeylight :cool: :up:

Heh. This just came up in my feed today.

Commuter X4: Powerful Strap-on Fiber Optic Light Makes Cyclists Super Visible at Nigh (http://inhabitat.com/commuter-x4-powerful-strap-on-fiber-optic-light-makes-cyclists-super-visible-at-night/)t

[thesameguy]

Man, with all the stuff I've got to work with, I could build that in a heartbeat!

Today I got my 12v dynamos, AC-DC rectifier/converters, and MonkeyLights. I missing my 12v batteries (due on Friday) and most importantly my EL wire. The wire has not shipped yet which is disappointing, but it's from San Jose so when it does it'll be quick. I can at least play around with the MonkeyLights, so I'm excited about that!

I also got my 27w solar panel, 12v solar regulator, AC/DC battery charger, and 32 AmazonBasics AA batteries. Although the EL stuff will be powered by the 12v battery and dynamo, the MonkeyLights run on AA batteries. We'll need six AAs per bike and each set of twelve batteries (yeah, I got MonkeyLights for both wheels for both bikes! :rawk:) should last two days - so we can easily get through four days with on-hand batteries. We should be able to recharge eight batteries per day with solar. Twelve used batteries every two days and sixteen charged batteries every two days seems like we're winning, even if batteries don't last quite as long as we thought or the sun isn't quite as bright as I expect. :D Worst case we can charge batteries faster off the motorhome's AC. Or simply not have MonkeyLights on a couple nights. ;)

I found this site:

http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.ACCT88394/sc.2/.f

which has sound-activated EL inverters, so I got those to run the EL lights. The inverters have off/sound/on, so if the sound activation turns out to suck we can just leave them on. I am strongly considering taking one of them apart to extend the microphone so you could talk into it to activate it, or connect it to a headphone jack and power it directly off an ipod or whatever. Maybe get a small external speaker too so the lighting makes sense. :D I'm just not sure how obnoxious driving around playing tunes would be. Having a 4.5ah battery onboard means driving a speaker would be *no problem*. That's still on the table, given the time.

[thesameguy]

YEAH! EL just shipped. Construction is on this weekend!

[Random]

My impression is that some dude riding around on a bike playing tunes through an iPod speaker is going to be small potatos.

http://www.elementalled.com/academy/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/robot3.jpg

[thesameguy]

You haven't seen my ipod speaker.

Got the MonkeyLights installed last night. Didn't have much time to play with them, but they mostly work as advertised. I can see why people like to use two per wheel, but I think that while more colorful would muddy the images. Not sure, don't care. The lights cast great light in every direction even at low brightness which is a surprise. I'm sure we'll keep them on low, which supposedly nets 20 hours per battery set - dope! We only checked a few of the themes and color combos and some of them are seizure inducing, but most of them are pretty cool. Actually, the seizure inducing ones are pretty cool as long as you're not the one looking at them. ROFL! Very satisfied with them in any case and I have strong hopes they and the bikes will survive the desert and we can use them downtown in the future - it'll be fun!

[Kchrpm]

You haven't seen my ipod speaker.

http://store.sony.com/SNYNA_27/pimg/pSNYNA-RDHGTK37IP_alternate1_v500.png

[thesameguy]

Yep, exactly!

With two weekends to go, one of which I'll be working, I'm not sure how creative I'm going to be able to be... I'm going to get everything I have installed and working Sunday, and then do modifications as time allows. I've been told some of the art can be pretty spread out so I see the value of having music to ride to. OTOH, maybe there is something to be said for quiet midnight bike rides into the desert. Which reminds me, I need to see if my tire pump still works and find my flat repair kit. Last thing I want to have to do is walk a bike back to town from the middle of nowhere.

[thesameguy]

Got the EL wire installed on one bike. I tried initially with just a 9v battery powering them - they are much brighter with 12v. Glad I decided to go that route. The sound activated inverter seems to work pretty well. It does a remarkable job of ignoring background noise, so if there is a radio playing in the background and you're having a conversation right next it, the lights pulse with your words. Kind of a neat effect. I'd still like to take one apart to mess with the mic, but time is getting really short. My testing was done with an extra UPS battery - the real ones show up today. I mocked up one using cardboard to get some idea on placement, and there are plenty of options on both bikes. I think they'll fit right on top of the bottom bracket, which makes me happy as it will keep the weight (2.8lbs) low and hopefully not upset the kickstand. Not exactly sure how to keep them in place at this moment but I have some ideas. Worst case they actually fit perfectly on the racks over the rear tires and a single zip tie would keep them in place. Unfortunately I'm out most of today and all day tomorrow, so I'll have to get back to this on Sunday.

[Random]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Duct-tape.jpg/220px-Duct-tape.jpg

[thesameguy]

Absolutely on the table. I'm hoping to avoid it, though, because honestly the whole thing is looking pretty darned elegant so far. Maybe black duct tape. :D

[thesameguy]

Battery placement on the bottom bracket was problematic, so the battery is going between the seat post and the rack, mostly under the seat. It seems to work great - the extra weight doesn't affect the kickstand much if at all. One bike is now totally done and everything works great. With the battery disconnected, the dynamo makes more than enough power to keep the EL on at full brightness as long as speed is kept up. At a walking pace, no light - but at a slow riding pace, full brightness. I'm pretty confident we'll be able to charge the batteries during the day and run the EL all night every night without issue. That makes me happy, as it means we'll be able to leave the bikes lit even unattended. In sound-responsive mode, I'm hoping they will flicker and flash so we can find them again. :lol:

Onto bike #2...

[thesameguy]

Bike #2 is done. These are terrible pictures, but give an idea of how they went -

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/redbike.jpg
http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/greenbike.jpg

I learned a lot of running, soldering, and planning EL. The green bike went way better than the red bike. If I had to do a third, it'd be pretty awesome. Maybe when we get bike I will redo them. The EL wire itself is cheap so it wouldn't be a big deal.

The batteries ended up on the rear racks, right under the seat. I make little brackets out of bar aluminum then polished it up nice and pretty. Looks pretty good!

[21Kid]

:) :up:
Cool!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hmm, for some reason my company blocked your pictures...

Anyway, I think your 3rd bike should have red and white wrapped around during the holiday season so you can look like you're riding on some sort of candy cane bike! :D Well, you can also add additional blue light to ride during July 4th! ;)

[Random]

How To Survive Living With Your Burner Roommate (http://www.thebolditalic.com/articles/5509-how-to-survive-living-with-your-burner-roommate)

It appears you missed the boat by not installing dildos on your bike wheels.

There's still time!

[thesameguy]

Based on some people I know, that's a very real phenomenon. It's absolutely a lifestyle. A friend of mine got wrapped up in it for two years and had to extricate himself from the non-stop parties, fundraisers, prep sessions, planning sessions, etc. I definitely get some of the stuff involved is very intense - designing anything to handle in some way, shape, or form 60,000 people is serious business. But turning any sort of celebration into a year-round duty is not for me. Dildos in spokes might be, though. I'll have to think about that.

[thesameguy]

Not exactly the right place to put this, but I really enjoyed this article -

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/08/the-wonderful-weird-economics-of-burning-man/376108/?single_page=true

[thesameguy]

The weather has gotten quite nice, and it's started bumming me out that we can't use our sweet glow in the dark bikes in town because they don't have road-legal lights. I spent a few hours over the weekend cleaning up the wiring on both of them and making accommodations for proper head and tail lights. Because I'm a nerd, I probably went a little overboard:

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/redbike_fusebox.jpg

Proper weatherproof fuseholder installed, along with a pair of weatherproof switches to turn everything on & off. Dope.

This is the dynamo kit I bought last year to run the EL lights:

http://img1.r10.io/PIC/65238302/0/1/300/65238302.jpg

It came with a proper vintage looking head & tail light. Unfortunately, the light bulbs are really dim incandescents as they need to be powered by only 3w, or 1/3 an amp. No problem, LEDs can address a lot of the draw issues, and of course I have a big ol' battery to float them. Unfortunately, both of the head and tail lights are wired backwards - the body is the (+) and the tip the (-). LEDs don't like that. I had to repolarize them, but no worries. With an 18 SMD LED up front and a 5 SMD LED out back, I have a LOT of light.

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/bikeslit1.jpg
http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/bikeslit2.jpg

That was taken late last night with no flash - all that light is off the headlights.

So awesome. Am excite!

[21Kid]

:eek: Dang!!!

Nice!! :cool::up:

[thesameguy]

Should be a nice improvement for cruising around in the desert, too. I have pretty good night vision and never had an issue, but the same cannot be said of the little lady. She was struggling to see things and it made night rides nerve wracking. There is always the chance you'll hit some patch of soft sand so vigilance is always called for, but having a better view of the landscape will be nice for her. I think the whole shebang takes about .5a (my math is screwy and my memory fuzzy - I should actually measure it) so the dynamo can almost power the whole thing. The battery is 4.5ah, so even without a recharge it can get through a good two or three days of night riding. I wish I could have had a low & high beam headlight, but I couldn't figure out a good way to use an 1157 bulb. That can be a project for another time. :)