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KillerB
September 3rd, 2014, 05:18 PM
Screen grabs from the live reveal in Monterey, CA. No details yet.

The359
September 3rd, 2014, 05:23 PM
Damnit!

KillerB
September 3rd, 2014, 05:28 PM
793

Mazda confirmed a 220 lb weight reduction from the NC.

Random
September 3rd, 2014, 05:30 PM
Curvy! Not sure I buy the front end completely, but I'm excited to see more pics.

KillerB
September 3rd, 2014, 05:33 PM
LA Times photo gallery (http://www.latimes.com/la-fi-hy-autos-2016-mazda-mx5-miata-photos-20140903-photogallery.html)

I have to say, I'm really, really impressed. Nice tiny lights, well sculpted sheet metal without bizarre lines, and is that exposed metal on the top of the doors?

I see they went back to 4 lug wheels. No need to share bits with the RX-8 anymore, it would seem.

Random
September 3rd, 2014, 06:07 PM
I dig the factory wheels. :cool:

Autoblog gallery, mostly the same shots as the LA Times, but include a couple powertrain pics: http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2016-mazda-mx-5-miata/full/#photo-2899847

Front-midships engine placement: :up:
PPF: :up:

The more first impressions I have, the more I think, "wow, it's clearly a Miata." Nice job by the stylists.

Random
September 3rd, 2014, 06:10 PM
Passenger will get cooked by the cat in the US version, instead of the driver. :D

KillerB
September 3rd, 2014, 06:11 PM
It's a Miata, with Alfa Romeo overtones in the rear quarters. Maybe they decided to keep the big round lights for the Miata after Fiat decided not to sell an Alfa version of this car?

KillerB
September 3rd, 2014, 06:13 PM
Now, for fuck's sake, stick a fastback on, drop in a 16X, and give us a damned RX-7!

Random
September 3rd, 2014, 06:16 PM
The NA and NB both had big round reflectors/lights in a similar location--it's a nice nod to the previous generations, seems like.

KillerB
September 3rd, 2014, 06:18 PM
The NC did, too, actually, but they're definitely the focus of the rear this time around.

I also really like those wheels (reminiscent of Watanabe RS8s) and the sidewall height.

GB
September 3rd, 2014, 06:31 PM
Best looking MX-5 since it's introduction. I like it mucho.

Random
September 3rd, 2014, 06:37 PM
Flyin Miata took a close-up of the tire sidewall: "Tires are a 195/50-16."

Random
September 3rd, 2014, 06:54 PM
FM's got some good shots up on their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/flyinmiata

Freude am Fahren
September 3rd, 2014, 07:36 PM
I like it. That little flair/turn indicator behind the front wheels screams Alfa though. I'd like to see that gone/changed. Not a big fan of the rear end as a whole. But overall, really nice :up:

The rear lights remind me of the Jag XK too.

Yw-slayer
September 3rd, 2014, 07:36 PM
Nice. The rear reminds me a bit too much of the first-gen Z4, but overall that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Phil_SS
September 3rd, 2014, 07:40 PM
I kinda sorta like it. Gotta see it in the flesh to make a final determination.

Random
September 3rd, 2014, 07:44 PM
More from FM:


More on the ND:
- conventional suspension, not adjustable damping. There's a "sport" button on the design model, but it's part of the automatic trans. Yes, that car has a shift knob for a manual. Don't read anything into it.
- chassis engineer says it is going to be much better than the current car. We talked about steering feel and driving fun instead of just high limits. Note the 195 tires on the driving model.
- The final damper specs have not been set, that will wait until they have near-production unibodies for the test mules. The stiffness of the chassis changes slightly. Interesting chat, I want that job.
- specific tires have not yet been decided, but sizes are the same as NC. This means we can run a 255 :)
- 100 kg lighter than current car
- no comment on powertrain specs
- very flat bottom
- inclined radiator like an NC

I think we have some good raw material here.

Godson
September 3rd, 2014, 08:14 PM
I *really* like this car.


Side profile reminds me a bit of the BMW z8

Random
September 3rd, 2014, 08:27 PM
Some nice moving shots (on a turntable) in this video from AutoBild: http://www.autobild.de/videos/video-mazda-mx-5-2015--5292406.html

Also get a glimpse in the trunk--looks huge to this NA owner. :lol:

KillerB
September 3rd, 2014, 11:12 PM
Multiple sources are reporting the official curb weight as 2280 lbs. I wonder what's under that hood? It's obviously a 4-cylinder and there are SkyActiv logos on the decklid, and I see the snazzy tubular exhaust manifold, but no word on displacement or power.

The359
September 4th, 2014, 01:24 AM
I saw somewhere that it is a reworked Skyactiv-G with the Skyactiv-MT transmission.

IMOA
September 4th, 2014, 01:45 AM
Looks good, hopefully they won't price it out of the market like they did with the NC in Aus. Pipedream would be adding a roof and a turbo but sadly that isn't happening.

samoht
September 4th, 2014, 04:58 AM
I like it, will be interesting to hear how it drives.

TheBenior
September 4th, 2014, 05:48 AM
I like it.

Shame I won't be able to afford one new anytime soon.

novicius
September 4th, 2014, 06:24 AM
Same here. :D :up:

tigeraid
September 4th, 2014, 06:34 AM
I think it looks way better than the old Miatas. ESPECIALLY if they do a hard-top for it.

2280 lbs gives me a boner.

Kchrpm
September 4th, 2014, 06:46 AM
I like how they tried to make it look more grown up/high end sports car like. I don't know if it fully works, but I think it works well enough to be a good decision.

That weight is astounding if true, go Mazda!

Obligatory small block Chevy swap comment.

Drachen596
September 4th, 2014, 06:54 AM
i like it.

alot.

pl8ster
September 4th, 2014, 07:25 AM
I kinda sorta like it. Gotta see it in the flesh to make a final determination.

I'm not totally feeling it based on the pics, but I definitely agree with the 'in the flesh' sentiment.

SupraDupra
September 4th, 2014, 08:19 AM
I'm digging the new lines...If it looks that good in pics, I think I'm going to love it more in person.

Crazed_Insanity
September 4th, 2014, 10:49 AM
Not a big fan of the rear end and its cup holder..., but it's not like I'd be using the cup holder nor will I see its butt while driving one! ;)

There were lots of report of it being lighter, but what about HP? Wonder if it'll have comparable performance as the BRZ or the FRS.

Rikadyn
September 4th, 2014, 10:50 AM
I don't like the front mostly think the lights should be done differently right now they kind of disrupt a flow

Crazed_Insanity
September 4th, 2014, 10:54 AM
794

What are you talking about? I thought the front is nicely done. Good for them for getting rid of the stupid grin they had before... and now it has a more aggressive squint, looking like it's ready to swallow its competition!

novicius
September 4th, 2014, 12:08 PM
There were lots of report of it being lighter, but what about HP? Wonder if it'll have comparable performance as the BRZ or the FRS.
This thing is going to eat BRZ's alive.

Freude am Fahren
September 4th, 2014, 05:09 PM
:(

I love the front, but I see the asian jokes strong with this one.

Godson
September 4th, 2014, 06:02 PM
FRS and BRZ are also asian joke capable. Though not as much as this...

Yw-slayer
September 4th, 2014, 07:27 PM
This thing is going to eat BRZ's alive.

We'll see about that...

On one level, I'm obviously not going to be terribly pleased if something is faster and more fun than my car, for around the same price or less. :(

But on a more altruistic level, I welcome such developments, as it's the only way the industry can innovate. :up: :D

Anyway, whatever the MX-5 has, it won't have that sweet, sweet boxer engine. And one thing the twins don't have is the "reputation" that accompanies an MX-5. Or put another way, the twins still make kids go "Whoa" or "Cool", whereas I think even this new MX-5 will only go some way toward changing that.

KillerB
September 4th, 2014, 07:38 PM
I'm going to guess that the new Miata will have ~180 hp or so. If it did have 200 hp, it certainly would torch the 86, since it's carrying 500 fewer lbs, but I suspect they will have pretty similar power-to-weight ratios, with maybe a small advantage to the Miata.

That said, we haven't really seen a performance variant of the SkyActiv engines just yet. 14:1 compression and a well-designed header could certainly be turned for power over fuel economy. With the right cam and beefed up internals, you'd have to think they could make a real screamer out of it.

Rikadyn
September 4th, 2014, 09:44 PM
We haven't?

http://s2.djyimg.com/n3/eet-content/uploads/2014/01/4287Roar14Mazda07sidepan.jpg

Random
September 4th, 2014, 09:49 PM
Haha, that would be a twist..."we're sticking the 2-liter SkyActiv-D in the new MX-5." *sound of jaws hitting the floor*

edit: though if they stuck the 450hp race version in the car, people would probably be ok with it. ;)

The359
September 4th, 2014, 09:52 PM
Have you seen how slow the Mazda LMP2s are? There still isn't a performance Skyactiv out there yet.

As for the 86s, the Miata is still only a convertible and the 86 is only a coupe. Coupe > Vert in my book. There's also no denying that the Miata is a much smaller car, inside and out. I've never viewed the 86 as a true competitor to the Miata, it's compromising a bit too much to compete with a true enthusiasts car. It's close, but it's never been quite the same. Slightly different market they're aiming for.

Jason
September 5th, 2014, 03:10 AM
The design is growing on me... but only in dark colors. In light colors (such as white, posted above) it looks really awkward. O.o

That being said... ~2300lbs and ~180hp? That'd be some damned fun. I assume there will be a hardtop convertible option at some point with a bit more weight?

KillerB
September 5th, 2014, 03:40 AM
When I lived back east, I'd take a coupe over a convertible every time. Out here, however, I'll take the roadster, please.

novicius
September 5th, 2014, 07:07 AM
I'm going to guess that the new Miata will have ~180 hp or so. If it did have 200 hp, it certainly would torch the 86, since it's carrying 500 fewer lbs, but I suspect they will have pretty similar power-to-weight ratios, with maybe a small advantage to the Miata.
I'm not referring to power-to-weight ratios, I'm talking about straight-up handling. The Miata is over 500+ lbs. lighter than the 86; on the metaphorical ride down the Mountain, it won't be the power but the agility that will shine.

Freude am Fahren
September 5th, 2014, 08:22 AM
Weight isn't everything with handling, though. Where that weight is, and suspension matter a lot (given the same size/model tire to put things on a equal playing field).

That said, I don't suspect the ND will fail in those respects, and it will be a great competition for the 86 in the twisties.

neanderthal
September 5th, 2014, 08:35 AM
I think they got the overall right, but some of the details are a bit off.

I'm not completely sold on the front. A bit too sloped? Headlights? Not exactly sure.
The rear is a bit derivative of several other cars as mentioned.

I like the silhouette though.

It's unlikely they will mess up the ride/ handling (although some other automakers have done that in the pursuit of numbers!) so it just remains for us to see what the powertrain will deliver. Hopefully not too much, not too little, just enough.

I'd loved to see a turboed 1.4 in there.

thesameguy
September 5th, 2014, 08:58 AM
I'm not a fan of the front end - the slope + narrow headlights + gaping grill don't fit together right. It looks melty like all the previous gen BMWs did from anything other than straight on or the side, like the pieces aren't fitting together correctly anymore. That would hardly be enough to keep me from buying one, though, and if 2300/180 are the specs that's 100% good enough for me. I'm sure whatever shortcomings might be present will be quickly addressed by the aftermarket anyway. ;)

novicius
September 5th, 2014, 11:09 AM
Weight isn't everything with handling, though. Where that weight is, and suspension matter a lot (given the same size/model tire to put things on a equal playing field).

That said, I don't suspect the ND will fail in those respects, and it will be a great competition for the 86 in the twisties.
That amount of weight at these levels is undeniably significant.

Also, in the interest of full bench racing disclosure, I'm much closer to 86 ownership than a Miata (much less a new one!)... not that I'm close to 86 ownership. :lol:

21Kid
September 5th, 2014, 02:00 PM
:up:

KillerB
September 5th, 2014, 05:51 PM
I like the sloping front end. I'm so tired of bulbous bluff noses on cars these days.

XHawkeye
September 5th, 2014, 07:30 PM
Chris Harris got out his spoon and stirred the pot with this Miata twitter rant


Woke with jet-lagged fuggy head, saw new MX-5, immediately went back to sleep, as world went all fluffy over it. Don't get it. Never have.

Obviously have to drive the thing, which for the last few versions has been pace-less purgatory, but otherwise GT86 all day long.

Because the MX5 is actually just a pretty, affordable roadster for people who can't afford a Boxster. It all goes smelly when Mazda....

.....claims it's some kind of drivers' car. Which it hasn't been since about '92.

MX5 defenders: drive an MR2, back-to-back, on the same road. It's cheap, it's proper fun. Why don't people go all goooeeeey over MR2s?

Note to self- when you're taking flak from the MX5 brigade for being out-of-touch, don't post a vid of yourself driving a £5m Ferrari!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bwsrhl5CYAEwmle.jpg:large

@harrismonkey Your paddock is now ready for tomorrow.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwxB1-WIIAAwcHN.jpg:large

Good to meet @harrismonkey at Goodwood. His MX-5 looked like a giant dog's knob.

Random
September 5th, 2014, 07:43 PM
Seriously? Must be a slow news day for /Drive.

edit: one point in his favor--the US got the Camry-engined Mk II MR-2 (a 2-liter I4 that can't rev past 6k is not "proper fun") and then an MR-S with interesting styling and zero storage. Not surprising that more people don't know about their handling quality.

KillerB
September 5th, 2014, 07:43 PM
Chris who?

Crazed_Insanity
September 5th, 2014, 07:48 PM
The dude is clearly jet lagged and drunk still.

Random
September 5th, 2014, 07:58 PM
The driveable prototype out on the roads at Laguna: http://i.imgur.com/SwUK2jf.jpg

New-fangled "moving pictures:" https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=968140556545798

MR2 Fan
September 5th, 2014, 09:57 PM
MX5 defenders: drive an MR2, back-to-back, on the same road. It's cheap, it's proper fun. Why don't people go all goooeeeey over MR2s?

Well SOME of us do :p

I do agree with him, people raved about the Miata when it came out....a reliable, small, lightweight, inexpensive 2-seater with a good engine and great gearbox from Japan....but it came out in 1990, 5 years after the MR2.

I guess the difference is that the Miata was a convertible and looked more like a jellybean *ahem* I mean timeless.

TheBenior
September 6th, 2014, 01:12 AM
Although convertibles are selling at historically low rates in the US these days, the success of the NA Miata and subsequent luxury roadsters like the Z3/4, SLK, and Boxster show that the roadster segment was definitely set for a revival in the 1990s. I don't think that the importance of it being a roadster can be overstated.

The Miata looked like a British roadster, but one with headlights and wipers that could be simultaneously operational. The W10 MR2 looked like... an even smaller than usual, typically angular/wedgy 1980s Japanese sports coupe missing it's hatch.

The359
September 6th, 2014, 02:06 AM
Probably also did not help the MR2 in that it was so similar to the dismal Fiero in the US.

As for Chris Harris, he's always been a big champion of the 86. He even likes it more than the Boxster.

MR2 Fan
September 6th, 2014, 02:53 AM
Probably also did not help the MR2 in that it was so similar to the dismal Fiero in the US.



Agreed

thesameguy
September 6th, 2014, 09:20 AM
Might note that the Fiero sold nearly 3:1 in half the time over the MR2 in the US, with Fieros moving 350k in five years and MR2s 130k in ten - with production starting at the same time. More Fieros were sold in their slumpy '88 production year that lead to their swift discontinuation than the last five years of MR2 production combined. I think it's more likely both cars were victims of being two seaters, and they vaporized with all the others. GM just had less patience for slow movers than Toyota, and killed the Fiero at the first sign of trouble.

As for Chris Harris, he has the luxury of a) people throwing cars at him and b) not being responsible for maintaining any of them. Not a bad place to be, but hardly a place from which to develop a balanced/contextual opinion about anything. If "fun" is the only metric there are lots of old cars that will out fun new ones, but wrap maintenance, safety, economy, and reliability and you always see a different picture. On that subject, I'll bet a crash test of an MR2 vs. an ND Miata wouldn't end well for the MR2, so there's that, too.

samoht
September 6th, 2014, 10:37 AM
I'm pretty sure that when Chris Harris says "buy an MR2 not an MX-5", he's referring to the final third-gen MR2 Spyder, which was lighter than the MX-5 with similar power, and he prefers the handling of. The third-gens are also super-cheap here now (like £2k). He also said he prefers a 205 GTi to either as a cheap drivers' car.

So, Ferraris and Porsches notwithstanding, he does have a legitimate preference for other cheap fun cars over the MX-5.

TheBenior
September 6th, 2014, 11:12 AM
US used car prices in general are fairly insane at the moment, but here MR2 Spyders have held their value better than Miatas of similar vintage, probably because there are a whole lot more Miatas out there to choose from.

Still, from what I remember, most period reviews liked the peformance of the MR2 Spyder over the NB Miata, but ultimately recommended the Miata for almost as capable while offering a usable trunk (5.1cu ft vs 1.9cu ft, IIRC). And not having cyborg frog styling.

thesameguy
September 6th, 2014, 12:00 PM
That is my recollection as well - although maybe if you're buying a 20 year old car vs a new one, practicality figures in less heavily.

I remember a few years ago when MR-Ss were cheaper than NBs, but it does seem that while they tanked fast, they didn't tank as furiously. ;)

Godson
September 6th, 2014, 12:37 PM
That is my recollection as well - although maybe if you're buying a 20 year old car vs a new one, practicality figures in less heavily.

I remember a few years ago when MR-Ss were cheaper than NBs, but it does seem that while they tanked fast, they didn't tank as furiously. ;)


I see what you did there...

samoht
September 6th, 2014, 02:15 PM
most period reviews liked the peformance of the MR2 Spyder over the NB Miata, but ultimately recommended the Miata for almost as capable while offering a usable trunk (5.1cu ft vs 1.9cu ft, IIRC). And not having cyborg frog styling.

See, someone on the evo forum posted the overhead cutaway of the new ND, and said 'wouldn't it be cool to cut off the overhangs?' And that's basically what the MR-S is, it has no overhangs at each end. And if you do that, it's hard to make the styling work. Plus you probably lose your boot (unless you stretch the wheelbase to compensate, which Toyota didn't). So both the downsides of the MR-S are basically a result of it being so truncated.

MR2 Fan
September 6th, 2014, 07:00 PM
Might note that the Fiero sold nearly 3:1 in half the time over the MR2 in the US, with Fieros moving 350k in five years and MR2s 130k in ten - with production starting at the same time. More Fieros were sold in their slumpy '88 production year that lead to their swift discontinuation than the last five years of MR2 production combined. I think it's more likely both cars were victims of being two seaters, and they vaporized with all the others. GM just had less patience for slow movers than Toyota, and killed the Fiero at the first sign of trouble.

As for Chris Harris, he has the luxury of a) people throwing cars at him and b) not being responsible for maintaining any of them. Not a bad place to be, but hardly a place from which to develop a balanced/contextual opinion about anything. If "fun" is the only metric there are lots of old cars that will out fun new ones, but wrap maintenance, safety, economy, and reliability and you always see a different picture. On that subject, I'll bet a crash test of an MR2 vs. an ND Miata wouldn't end well for the MR2, so there's that, too.

Well the MR2 was a global car as well, not just sold in the U.S., and the MR2 didn't die, just moved to a new version.

Crazed_Insanity
September 8th, 2014, 09:41 AM
I'm pretty sure that when Chris Harris says "buy an MR2 not an MX-5", he's referring to the final third-gen MR2 Spyder, which was lighter than the MX-5 with similar power, and he prefers the handling of. The third-gens are also super-cheap here now (like £2k). He also said he prefers a 205 GTi to either as a cheap drivers' car.


If I recall correctly, new MR2 Spyder was about $4~5k more than a comparable Miata at the time. I think I was considering all of those vehicles when I was in a market for a convertible. It was like ~$20k for a Miata, ~$25k for the MR2 and ~$30k for the S2000. So I went for the maximum performance and maximum of what I can afford. Even if I couldn't afford the S2000, I'm not sure if I'd get the MR2 Spyder though. I did find the MR arrangement appealing, but overall performance #s really weren't that much better than the Miata. How much better in terms of handling can you get compared to the Miata? Toyota should instead focus on giving it more power I think. Plus, Miata has a more practical useful trunk. I also like Miata's looks better. About the only thing in MR2's favor was perhaps Toyota reliability? Anyway, MR2 Spyder didn't sell as well as Miata mainly because it's too pricey IMHO.

KillerB
September 8th, 2014, 11:23 PM
MR2 Spyder had two serious strikes against it - zero storage and ugly styling. I feel like Toyota missed out not installing the 2ZZ engine from the Celica GT-S - had they done that, the MR2 Spyder would have had a real performance advantage.

Conspiracy theory time - the pointy, sloped front end looks like it could be a modern first gen RX-7 with a few tweaks. Hatchback coupe rear + 16X = new RX-7?!!

thesameguy
September 9th, 2014, 10:31 AM
Screw conspiracy theories, I think Mazda is totally remiss not just bolting a 16x and a hardtop onto a Miata, calling it the RX7, and charging +$5k-$8k. Yeah, it's some corny badge engineering, but OTOH Mazda would save bank not having a distinct platform, people would have an option for a hardtop Miata (that they've always wanted), and rotary nuts get their rotary. Hell, even a Renesis in a hardtop 2400lb MRX57 would be awesome. There's no reason a modern RX7 has to be a premium car like the FD, it could be a basic car like the SA. In fact, maybe that SA redux is exactly what people really want.

IMOA
September 10th, 2014, 03:55 PM
Screw conspiracy theories, I think Mazda is totally remiss not just bolting a 16x and a hardtop onto a Miata, calling it the RX7, and charging +$5k-$8k. Yeah, it's some corny badge engineering, but OTOH Mazda would save bank not having a distinct platform, people would have an option for a hardtop Miata (that they've always wanted), and rotary nuts get their rotary. Hell, even a Renesis in a hardtop 2400lb MRX57 would be awesome. There's no reason a modern RX7 has to be a premium car like the FD, it could be a basic car like the SA. In fact, maybe that SA redux is exactly what people really want.

There's a lot of sense on that, hell of a lot of sense actually.

KillerB
September 10th, 2014, 06:27 PM
Sadly, the 13B-MSP doesn't meet modern emissions requirements. But if Mazda can scrape together the cash to finish development on the 16X, it should be a no brainer.

samoht
September 13th, 2014, 07:55 AM
I agree, I'd happily rock an ND-based, hardtop rotary new RX-7. The FD is pretty cramped anyway, as long as I can get behind the wheel I'm fine.

Leon
September 14th, 2014, 11:32 PM
I feel like Toyota missed out not installing the 2ZZ engine from the Celica GT-S - had they done that, the MR2 Spyder would have had a real performance advantage.

I agree. I've got the 140hp 1zzfe (same as the MR-S) in my Corolla daily, and it's a pathetic engine.

Ali
September 24th, 2014, 08:51 AM
Has there been any confirmation of engine? I assumed it'd be the 2.0 160bhp I4 from the 3 but none of our magazines seem to agree. Not all that sold on the styling, in all honesty. Overall shape is fine but the front and rear lights seem fussy for the sake of fussiness. Be interesting to see what Abarth do with it, or if Marchionne changes his mind and lets Alfa have the Spider they desperately need to get back into the US market.

FaultyMario
September 24th, 2014, 09:19 AM
Abarth?, Don't you mean Mazdaspeed?

thesameguy
September 24th, 2014, 09:19 AM
I've read nothing discussing whether it's an "old" Duratec/MZR or a new SkyActiv.

KillerB
September 24th, 2014, 12:04 PM
FCA was working on sharing this platform with Alfa Romeo. Then Sergio decided all Alfas had to be built in Italy, so there was some talk the FCA version would be sold as a Fiat Abarth roadster or something.

Personally, at this point, I don't think the FCA version will ever come out.

It's definitely a SkyActiv, there was a badge saying such on the rear. For the US, at least, the money is on a tweaked version of the 2.0L SkyActiv. In the Mazda3, it makes 155 hp. It wouldn't take too much to get it to 170 hp or so.

I've read they're talking a base 1.5L for other markets.

In other news, while I was checking out the Mazda3 for that power number, I see the 184 hp 2.5L SkyActiv is now available on the Mazda3 with a manual transmission, all the way up through the GT trim. :)

MR2 Fan
September 24th, 2014, 03:38 PM
I agree. I've got the 140hp 1zzfe (same as the MR-S) in my Corolla daily, and it's a pathetic engine.

Doesn't your corolla weigh about 800 pounds more though?

CudaMan
September 24th, 2014, 07:19 PM
I'd expect closer to 150hp for the ND but what do I know. :)

I think Mazda really missed the mark on the styling this time. A Miata is supposed to look like an unfussy, classic roadster. The ND can't decide whether it wants to have smooth curves (middle section) or sharp angles (the ends). The hood sloping up for so long to a high front fender looks ungainly, and the styling details (lights etc) are really going to date the car quickly.

Still, I'm sure it will drive great. Which is what really matters in a car like this.

KillerB
October 2nd, 2014, 09:34 AM
Well, now we know for certain that the Miata is getting a base 1.5L in most of the world, but the 2.0L SkyActiv will be standard in North America. However, we don't have power ratings yet, just that the Miata will get versions of those engines specifically tuned for the Miata.

Freude am Fahren
October 2nd, 2014, 11:25 AM
I can't imagine it would be less than 180ish, right? 100hp/L seems like a good fit for this kind of engine/application.

thesameguy
October 2nd, 2014, 11:36 AM
The outgoing motor was 170, right? It seems the BRZ is going to have to be its target, though maybe they will leave some headroom for a future MSMX5.

The359
October 2nd, 2014, 12:21 PM
The current SkyActiv-G in the 3 has 155hp, so it has to be somewhere north of that.

samoht
October 2nd, 2014, 02:00 PM
Autocar reckon 140hp for the 1.5 and 180hp for the 2.0.

The latter sounds tempting in a 1.1 tonne roadster :-)

Mr Wonder
October 3rd, 2014, 01:17 PM
Yeah the 2 litre lump was always going to be the more interesting of the offerings. 180 horses should provide some open top arse out thrills. I really want to see what kind of price and spec they'll offer for this generation. The lack of folding hardtop is a bit of a deal breaker for my circumstance, but I'm not sure I've ever really been in the market.

Random
January 30th, 2015, 09:18 AM
First Drive event was held in Spain recently, so all the usual sites are posting driving reviews.

Spoiler: they like it. A lot.

Autoblog: http://www.autoblog.com/2015/01/30/2016-mazda-mx-5-miata-first-drive-review-video/
Road and Track: http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/news/a24888/first-drive-2016-mazda-mx5-miata/

Euro:
AutoExpress video review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1422579428&v=JpYuWNxZx8c
Autocar: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mazda/mx-5-2015/first-drives/2015-mazda-mx-5-15-review

Canadia:
http://driving.ca/mazda/mx-5/reviews/road-test/first-drive-2016-mazda-mx-5

XHawkeye
January 30th, 2015, 01:05 PM
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-mazda-mx-5-miata-first-drive-review


Everything we love about the Miata, but smaller.

Freude am Fahren
January 30th, 2015, 01:15 PM
:up: that's like saying everything we love about Kate Upton, but hotter with bigger boobs.

XHawkeye
January 30th, 2015, 06:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpYuWNxZx8c

KillerB
January 30th, 2015, 09:32 PM
It sounds crazy, but the thing keeping me from buying an Alfa 4C is this. I need to drive both first.

As crazy as the Alfa might be, this is still going to be 200-300 lbs lighter and less than half the price.

TheBenior
January 30th, 2015, 09:38 PM
And you can get the Miata with the correct transmission.

KillerB
January 30th, 2015, 09:40 PM
Yes, that too.

neanderthal
January 30th, 2015, 10:26 PM
One review seems terribly like "Turn Your Hymnals To 2002" in it's glowing praise. I think it was the autoblog one.

samoht
January 31st, 2015, 03:20 AM
Sounds great, quite appealing even with the 1.5. After all, my Silvia had ~140hp and weighed more than that (1150 kgs?), and was still fun. I like the way they explicitly recognise the fun of the car moving around and needing to be *driven*, rather than just directed.

All that said... I doubt I can bring myself to downsize, once you get used to more power it's hard to consider going back.

Kchrpm
January 31st, 2015, 03:46 AM
It would be interesting to drive one of these after my time in the C7.

KillerB
January 31st, 2015, 09:38 AM
Well, the nice thing is that the pricing on this means I could have this AND the Challenger. :D

novicius
January 31st, 2015, 09:40 AM
:up:

The new Miata looks damn sharp, Joe, you should pick one up if you're not gonna get a bike. #doitdoit

Sad, little man
January 31st, 2015, 10:46 AM
You know what's 200-300lbs lighter than the new Miata? A used Elise. :D

TheBenior
January 31st, 2015, 03:46 PM
Well, I should hope it's better in some way for the being used and costing more. Or having a salvage title.

Godson
January 31st, 2015, 08:31 PM
Well, I should hope it's better in some way for the being used and costing more. Or having a salvage title.

From just being driven around on the streets...

Godson
January 31st, 2015, 08:38 PM
I'll say it. I am thinking of one of these vs the 86 in 4 or 5 years time tbh.

GB
February 2nd, 2015, 08:51 PM
I want to love this car... I really do. Looks phenomenal. Beautifully engineered for the purpose of driving pleasure.

I know the Miata has never been about power, I'm just disappointed in the output numbers of this much-ballyhoo'd SkyActiv thingy-motor. I don't see why a nice, light 2 liter mill can't have 175hp at 8000rpm and 180 lb-ft at 3000rpm.

thesameguy
February 2nd, 2015, 09:55 PM
I'm a little disappointed with SkyActiv too - Mazdas are broadly down in power these days. There is surely something to be said for "the area under the curve" and that has to be taken into account. But 180 lb ft out of a 2.0l is unheard of - you'd need like an 18:1 CR to do that. Even with DI that's a very tall order. A 3000rpm torque peak and an 8k rev range would also be sorta magical - ~5000rpm of power band is very ambitious even with fancy cams and intake manifolds. Hopefully the Miata is where it is so there will be room for a MazdaSpeed version, but it'll probably be more in line with the Fiesta or Focus ST in terms of power delivery... assuming the MS version is turbo'd and not just a higher strung NA motor.

novicius
February 3rd, 2015, 05:53 AM
Bah, 140 HP is more than enough to get you into trouble in a car like this, much less the bigger 2.0L. #followmetocertaindeath

KillerB
February 3rd, 2015, 09:24 AM
You'd have to think the patents on VTEC have run out by now. Mazda not bothering to build higher-performance 4-cylinders made more sense when the rotary was still an option. I'd rather see a high-wonder in the Miata than a boosted engine.

samoht
February 3rd, 2015, 11:37 AM
Yeah, I'd love a lighter weight S2000 too :-)

I thought they had a 180hp n/a four-pot already, not sure why that can't feature in this car.

MR2 Fan
February 3rd, 2015, 11:57 AM
You'd have to think the patents on VTEC have run out by now. Mazda not bothering to build higher-performance 4-cylinders made more sense when the rotary was still an option. I'd rather see a high-wonder in the Miata than a boosted engine.

Toyota has their own version of VTEC with VVT-i/VVTL-i, isn't that basically the same thing?

KillerB
February 3rd, 2015, 01:35 PM
There are actual physical differences in the implementation. I don't remember the exact details but VTEC and VVTL-i used two different methods to produce the same result.

Random
February 3rd, 2015, 02:04 PM
The SkyActiv engines run a VVT system--I haven't been able to figure out if it is variable lift as well.

thesameguy
February 3rd, 2015, 05:30 PM
I am pretty sure all the variable cam systems in play today are timing and lift. In the '90s, only Honda had lift but since ~Y2K I'm pretty sure both are widely implemented. I think for a while Honda stayed ahead by offering continuously variable valve timing instead of multi-stage, but I think even that is available to all manufacturers (even if they don't implement it in all applications).

GB
February 3rd, 2015, 10:36 PM
Since the S2000 had 245hp 163lb-ft 15 years ago, surely we could get a nice lightweight, high-revving mill with a nice HP/TQ ratio in '15.

KillerB
February 3rd, 2015, 10:49 PM
In a 2200 lb car, I'd settle for 200 hp/140 ft-lbs if it was a revver.

GB
February 4th, 2015, 06:17 AM
In a 2200 lb car, I'd settle for 200 hp/140 ft-lbs if it was a revver.
Sure, I agree. For a little grunt out of slower corners, I'd trade a little HP for TQ is all I'm saying. But this car, FOR NOW at least, is a little lacking in both IMO.

I still love what Mazda has done, though. Just wishing for a tad more oomph.

thesameguy
February 4th, 2015, 09:16 AM
Unfortunately torque is pretty much entirely a product of compressing air, so the only way to get more torque is more air or more compression. Modern-er engines can boost compression ratio with cam tricks (intake resonance and exhaust scavenging, etc.) and get more than expected torque, but that comes up the rev range as air is moving. To get more torque at low revs, you need boost, displacement, or CR. That's why engine torque ratings haven't enjoyed the big improvements we see in horsepower - because horsepower is a function of engine speed and we now know how to build engines that can breathe efficiently. Torque is nice for the street, but once you're really moving all you need is a properly spec'd gearbox. The S2000 wasn't fast-feeling off the line, but once you're going all you ever need is a different gear. ;)

Random
February 4th, 2015, 09:28 AM
In a 2200 lb car, I'd settle for 200 hp/140 ft-lbs if it was a revver.

Early NA + http://www.kmiata.com/about-us.html (http://www.kmiata.com/products.html)

:devil:

thesameguy
February 4th, 2015, 09:35 AM
Indeed. I'm unsure why Mazda just didn't build that to start with this time around.

Random
February 4th, 2015, 09:40 AM
Baruth's take on the power issue: http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/features/a24927/when-it-comes-to-miata-horsepower-155-is-enough/

(Thanks, novi)

thesameguy
February 4th, 2015, 10:01 AM
I see his point, but I don't agree with his all-or-nothing logic. I think it would be quite possible to have a <2400lb 200hp Miata without at all losing the character of the car. That this could exist isn't a negative commentary on what does exist, but rather simply an observation that Miata++ != Z4. There is more room in the middle than he is suggesting. This, however, is where we definitely do not want to be:


With most of these cars, you make speed on a back road like so: Accelerate at escape-velocity speed towards corner. Hit the monster brakes as hard as you can and let off when you think you've judged corner speed perfectly. Get through corner by relying on the massive tires and the stability control. When you see the exit, mash the gas and let the AWD/trick diff/Red-Bull-Racing-caliber traction control figure it out. Rinse and repeat until you're out of brakes, sitting in jail, or burned beyond recognition. If you're brave and skilled, you can make massive pace, but after a while it frays your nerves and drains all of the fun out of your favorite back road.

Strongly agree!

I'm not buying a Miata in any case, so none of this affects me but it does strike me as maybe not the smartest marketing move. Seems the 2016 Miata is going to feel very retro, and maybe not in saleable ways.

novicius
February 4th, 2015, 10:14 AM
Is it too far fetched to conceive of a goal for lightweight sportscar design is to make a car as enjoyable as possible with as little horsepower as possible?

(...and a lot of that judgement depends upon the road, too. #shrug)

thesameguy
February 4th, 2015, 10:24 AM
(...and a lot of that judgement depends upon the road, too. #shrug)

I really think it's this. There are definitely places where actual power means almost nothing, but around here they are few and far between (they do exist, but the roads are in such disrepair they aren't fun - and maybe not safe - to drive quickly). Cars are big and fast today and roads are built accordingly - I think you'd have to find some old abandoned roads to truly enjoy slower & smaller. I could be wrong. Around here, I find the 2700lb/160/200 Fiero and 2500lb/180/133 Celica to be generally good but often not quite enough. A little more planning is required than I'd love, which puts damper on hooning in public. Maybe the Miata's weight savings will be enough to make up the difference, but I have my doubts. IMHO, somewhere between the Celica and the Elise is public road perfection, which is why I think the 2200lb/200hp metric is $money$. A tiny bit heavier or a little less power would work, but hitting that mark would result in a momentum car that also has the ability to escape physics every so often. ;)

novicius
February 4th, 2015, 10:31 AM
I'm just thinking of the type of railing Japanese sportscar enthusiasts grow up on: "coming down The Mountain" as it were.

In that scenario, you really don't need much power because A.) gravity-assist, and B.) hitting guardrails sucks...

thesameguy
February 4th, 2015, 10:40 AM
I'm just thinking of the type of railing Japanese sportscar enthusiasts grow up on: "coming down The Mountain" as it were.

In that scenario, you really don't need much power because A.) gravity-assist, and B.) hitting guardrails sucks...

For real, and agreed! We've just had such big powerful cars for so long there aren't many roads like that, at least on the West Coast. There are a few (Bear Creek Road in Santa Cruz comes to mind), but I don't think most of the US lives near such a trail. ;)

novicius
February 4th, 2015, 10:44 AM
Americans get that thrill by stuffing too many cubes into a flimsy chassis, brakes and tires.

Only now the chassis/brakes/tires are space-age unobtanium that it requires more power than a city bus to get a thrill.

Kchrpm
February 4th, 2015, 10:45 AM
If your goal is losing traction, go to a track.

novicius
February 4th, 2015, 10:50 AM
Well said. :up:

novicius
February 4th, 2015, 11:04 AM
There are definitely places where actual power means almost nothing, but around here they are few and far between (they do exist, but the roads are in such disrepair they aren't fun - and maybe not safe - to drive quickly). Cars are big and fast today and roads are built accordingly - I think you'd have to find some old abandoned roads to truly enjoy slower & smaller.
Hwy 33 through Wildcat Mountain, WI (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wildcat+Mountain+State+Park/@43.6878404,-90.5370041,13z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x87fdd39edabfc2cf:0x2ae658f37a6c2 db0) should give you the type of thrill this Miata is built for, I'd think (amongst some other choice WI roads). Some varying elevation, decent corners here and there, some loping runs, a few suicide corners, etc.

http://klasjm.smugmug.com/photos/205908930-L.jpg

Google Maps is fun. (https://goo.gl/maps/Ioqbe) :)

Godson
February 4th, 2015, 01:10 PM
We have several of those nice roads within 20 minutes of my house

novicius
February 4th, 2015, 01:15 PM
Yeah you do! :up:

Coming into the corner above on a sportbike at even a brisk pace, your ass up higher than your eyebrows, the Pucker Factor starts at 8.5 and goes up from there... :lol:

Random
February 4th, 2015, 01:26 PM
https://goo.gl/maps/OKIC3 :rawk:

novicius
February 4th, 2015, 01:28 PM
Nice!! :up:

(I bet my route has less traffic. ;) )

Kchrpm
February 4th, 2015, 01:51 PM
I saw a line of WRX's and similar parked near of of the best sections while I was in the Corvette in Sedona, for a split second I considered joining them, but saw more negative outcomes than positive.

Random
February 4th, 2015, 01:53 PM
Carlo, possibly, though mine is not actually a heavily travelled route at all (despite being a CA HWY), particularly once you get past the ranchettes just west of Red Bluff. I saw, I dunno, a dozen or so cars when I did that route a few years back in the Miata, and most of them were near the US101 end. The bulk of the east-west traffic in that area of CA stays on HWY299, to the north a little bit.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/v/t1.0-9/580613_10151473898578908_1256387589_n.jpg?oh=c6c05 e04a8921d269ecbe8a842b92482&oe=555B2804&__gda__=1430992843_844b17181dcb48f6601403e0fdee2c7 9
Neeeooowwwww. :D

novicius
February 4th, 2015, 01:59 PM
:up: :up:

Random
February 4th, 2015, 02:00 PM
It's on my mega-Lotto list to fly everyone out and go drive that road, BTW. Wish me luck. ;)

thesameguy
February 4th, 2015, 03:00 PM
Let's go!

KillerB
February 5th, 2015, 07:38 AM
CA-36 is, indeed, one of the best and most intense Roads I've experienced. The traffic is as light as Russ said, and other drivers were quick to pull over and let me by.

...and I was driving a rental TAURUS. I can't wait to drive this road in a proper sports car.

Please note - there are some genuinely full-on dangerous bits, though. The changes in scenery are amazing... The west end is on high mountains with redwoods about; the east end looks like Red Dead Redemption.

thesameguy
February 5th, 2015, 11:00 AM
Let's go!

QFT!

novicius
February 5th, 2015, 11:03 AM
https://goo.gl/maps/OKIC3 :rawk:
https://goo.gl/maps/MgOej

FTFY. ;)

KillerB
February 5th, 2015, 10:21 PM
CA-36 tho (http://www.pashnit.com/roads/cal/Highway36.htm)

GB
March 12th, 2015, 07:41 PM
Has anyone found a firm release date yet?

Seriously considering getting one.

Can use the excuse of 20th anniversary gift for the wife. :)


[EDIT]

Here's an "interesting" Florida road. :(

http://holidaytripper.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Florida-road-tolls.jpg

Godson
March 12th, 2015, 08:40 PM
Look up I80. it makes that thing look like the Nordschleife

novicius
March 13th, 2015, 07:15 AM
Here's an "interesting" Florida road. :(

http://holidaytripper.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Florida-road-tolls.jpg
E. Gobbler Drive - Florida (https://goo.gl/maps/LRRlS)

Ozello Trail - Florida (https://goo.gl/maps/mdsgB)

Yeah, there's slim pickings in Florida for Miata drivers. #camarocountry

Freude am Fahren
March 13th, 2015, 07:36 AM
Yeah, South Florida especially blows. BRZ and R6 and straight, traffic filled roads with stop lights every 1/8th mile, unless you're on 95 or the turnpike, then you can replace the stoplights with cops/truck tires/contruction. I need to move.

novicius
March 13th, 2015, 07:40 AM
You've just got the wrong tools for the job. ;)

Godson
March 13th, 2015, 09:04 AM
I hear Arkansas is nice

KillerB
March 13th, 2015, 01:40 PM
I think we're looking at late summer.

GB
March 13th, 2015, 03:11 PM
Hmmm... I was hoping for mid-year. (June-ish).

Meh, more time to accumulate a down payment.

Random
March 14th, 2015, 11:27 AM
Here's the version they should make (found on tumblr via reddit):

http://41.media.tumblr.com/3fd9a16da5eb73e6639aa2a3e87e8548/tumblr_njs73m6zmg1twr3n9o1_1280.jpg

Headlights go up!
Headlights go down!
Headlights go up!
Headlights go down!

CudaMan
March 14th, 2015, 03:22 PM
Much improved.

Freude am Fahren
March 14th, 2015, 09:13 PM
Since you can have such small lights, they should make pop-ups that only go up like 1/3 of the way...

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/131/399/fry.PNG?1307468855

Ali
March 17th, 2015, 06:24 AM
E. Gobbler Drive - Florida (https://goo.gl/maps/LRRlS)


That's fascinating in that it brings up somewhere called Inverness and, more bizarrely, Inverness Highlands North. If there's anywhere that looks less like Inverness, I have a few hats to eat!

Kchrpm
March 30th, 2015, 06:20 AM
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/30/2016-mazda-mx5-miata-priced-24915/

$24,915

GB
April 23rd, 2015, 09:34 AM
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a25588/all-the-trims-all-the-prices-revealed-for-2016-miata/

Sport: $25,735 (add $1075 for the automatic transmission—here and in all models). The Sport includes 16-inch wheels, a six-speed manual transmission, LED headlights and taillights, Bluetooth, power door locks, a leather-wrapped shift knob, a USB port, and cruise control.

Club: $29,420. The Club model adds 17-inch wheels, a front splitter, a rear spoiler, piano-black door-mirror caps, a seven-inch touch-screen infotainment system, and a nine-speaker Bose sound system. A limited-slip rear differential, Bilstein dampers, and a shock-tower brace are included, too, so long as the manual transmission is selected. Buyers can opt for a $3400 performance package that brings 17-inch forged-aluminum BBS wheels, Brembo front brakes, and aerodynamic rocker-panel extensions and rear bumper trim.

Grand Touring: $30,885. The Grand Touring adds bright-finished 17-inch wheels, heated seats, leather, automatic climate control, a Homelink garage-door opener, rain-sensing windshield wipers, adaptive headlights, blind-spot monitoring, rear cross-traffic alert, and lane-departure warning.


Sport or Club the way to go?

KillerB
April 23rd, 2015, 09:38 AM
If the GT includes all the performance goodies the Club does, I'd go for that, since the price delta is pretty small. Most of the additional features are just electronics so they won't add much weight.

The hot ticket for price/performance would be if a package was available on the Sport that added the LSD and Bilsteins.

thesameguy
April 23rd, 2015, 09:52 AM
I think the answer would have to be wait for the inevitable Spec or whatever name they give it. The one has all the go fast parts and none of the lard butt parts. :D

novicius
April 23rd, 2015, 09:53 AM
Conversely, I'm not seeing the Power Retracting Hard Top option -- no go on this one?

GB
April 23rd, 2015, 09:58 AM
If the GT includes all the performance goodies the Club does, I'd go for that, since the price delta is pretty small. Most of the additional features are just electronics so they won't add much weight.
My wife doesn't like leather seats!

Freude am Fahren
April 23rd, 2015, 12:07 PM
I shopped a Club against the BRZ, isn't that a pretty big hike, as well as a lot of luxo items compared to the previous? Or am I mistaken?

neanderthal
April 23rd, 2015, 02:03 PM
Base model with a few options from the sport; locking diff etc.

The359
April 23rd, 2015, 03:23 PM
I remember looking at the Miata price and it was nowhere near the base price of an FR-S, that does seem like a bit of a hike.

KillerB
April 24th, 2015, 01:19 PM
Well the GT doesn't have the Club's performance options, so Club it would be for me.

Average new car transaction price in the US is now $32k, so I don't really see the price being out of line.

TheBenior
April 24th, 2015, 02:15 PM
My 1997 Miata M-Edition had an MSRP of just under $25k, unadjusted for inflation.

I know part of that was the Yen's strength then, but loaded Miatas have never been econobox cheap.

FaultyMario
April 24th, 2015, 08:56 PM
Clubs sounds good.

Random
May 14th, 2015, 07:52 AM
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/lists/1505-10-more-things-to-know-about-the-2016-mazda-mx-5-miata/

Random
May 22nd, 2015, 09:54 AM
Commercial!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5UjmHOl4pU

Freude am Fahren
May 22nd, 2015, 12:18 PM
Sooo... They're going after the midlife crisis demo now :lol:

KillerB
May 22nd, 2015, 12:24 PM
Pretty sure they always were!

I actually really liked it.

GB
May 23rd, 2015, 09:27 PM
Holy crap, that's a commercial for ME. Except I'm even older, and have never had a previous Miata.

Random
June 1st, 2015, 07:46 AM
Press embargo just lifted, so there are a bunch of articles coming out. :up:

KillerB
June 1st, 2015, 04:50 PM
Apparently Dave Coleman (of Sport Compact Car fame) was one of the leads on the ND.

"'We don’t give a shit about times on a test track.' That’s what Mazda’s engineering guru Dave Coleman told me. And that’s not only what makes the 2016 Mazda Miata an amazing car, but also a great Miata. The definitive lightweight sports car is back and it’s bringing a renaissance along with it."

http://jalopnik.com/the-2016-mazda-miata-will-save-the-sports-car-1707333736

Yw-slayer
June 1st, 2015, 07:05 PM
I'm glad to see that it's good. Iif it's said to be "better" than the 86 in whatever manner, that can only help push the sports car market, which is good for everyone.

KillerB
June 1st, 2015, 07:10 PM
To me, the biggest question would be this vs. a very nice used S2000. But the Miata is close to 500 lbs lighter and with a 0-60 time of 5.9s and the 1/4 in 14.6, it would appear not to be much slower in a straight line.

The VTEC howl is addicting, though.

neanderthal
June 1st, 2015, 08:20 PM
NC.

Flying Miata LS-X conversion.

Done.

KillerB
June 1st, 2015, 09:19 PM
Those conversions cost so much that by the time you're done you might as well just buy a Corvette.

thesameguy
June 1st, 2015, 10:04 PM
How much do they really cost? Canbus adapter, some mounts, crate motor... ? I can't imagine there isn't anything you can't LSx for ten grand, and that's going crate motor and not junkyard motor.

TheBenior
June 2nd, 2015, 12:05 AM
About $18k for an NA if you're buying all the parts from FM, sans engine and transmission.

If you just want the major bits and not all the other bits that add up (exhaust, intake, suspension and brake bits), you're still looking at around $10k before drive train. The NC is about the same.

KillerB
June 2nd, 2015, 07:51 AM
The Tremec six-speed isn't cheap, I think it's about $5k new.

thesameguy
June 2nd, 2015, 10:15 AM
Okay, new I can see big numbers. But you could also buy a GTO or early CTSV or even a late Camarobird and just steal what I needed. A Firebird gets you everything you need, and even a stock LS1 is plenty o' power for a Miata.

Crazed_Insanity
June 2nd, 2015, 10:47 AM
To me, the biggest question would be this vs. a very nice used S2000. But the Miata is close to 500 lbs lighter and with a 0-60 time of 5.9s and the 1/4 in 14.6, it would appear not to be much slower in a straight line.

The VTEC howl is addicting, though.

If engine singing at over 8000 rpm is absolutely needed, then of course S2000 can't be beat.

However, with a 5.9s 0 to 60, it's not much slower than S2000. Com'on, how often will you pedal to the metal anyway?

Further, considering Miata can do 30mpg combined... along with the latest safety features and electronic gizmos... even I would not prefer an used S2000 over the new Miata. Of course I don't think I'd ever trade in my S2000 for the Miata. Just saying that if I were in the market for a convertible, I think Miata would be an easy decision for me over the S2000.

KillerB
June 2nd, 2015, 12:05 PM
One factor to consider is that it appears S2000s are done depreciating. You won't lose money on a well kept S2000.

TheBenior
June 2nd, 2015, 01:14 PM
On the plus side, with a Miata, there's minimal risk of one's car getting stolen and stripped for the wheels and seats. Insurance is likely to be lower as a result of it not being one of the top 5 highest theft rate vehicles.

Crazed_Insanity
June 3rd, 2015, 12:37 PM
One factor to consider is that it appears S2000s are done depreciating. You won't lose money on a well kept S2000.

My 13 yr old S2000 (with hardtop) is about $10k now acccording to KBB. That's probably 50% of a new Miata OTD!

If budget is limited and you don't want it depreciating, then S2000 definitely can't be beat.

If you buy a newer S2000... surely it will continue to depreciate down to around $10k range..., but I guess, S2000 has a chance of becoming a classic and end up appreciating in value decades down the road. Something Miata probably will never be able to achieve. ;)

I guess, it comes down to whether if it's going to be a daily driver, if yes, I'd definitely vote for the safer, more fuel efficient and more comfortable(with more features) Miata. If it's just going to be a spare weekend car, then surely S2000 wins.

BTW, S2000 is pretty cheap insurance-wise.

TheBenior
June 3rd, 2015, 04:36 PM
Sub 60,000 mile S2000s have asking prices of $18-25k around Chicago.

Godson
June 3rd, 2015, 09:06 PM
Mid to high teens in kcmo

Crazed_Insanity
June 4th, 2015, 11:31 AM
My 13 yr old has 120k miles on it.

If a 13 yr old S2000 has only sub 60k miles, you gotta ask what the owner has been smoking! ;)

thesameguy
June 4th, 2015, 11:50 AM
It's not uncommon for specialty cars to keep low miles, especially small cars and convertibles. Hell, my Fiero is 28 years old and has 105k on it. There are plenty ~60k S2ks for sale at any given moment.

Random
June 4th, 2015, 11:56 AM
113k on a 21yr-old Miata, for me. :)

KillerB
June 10th, 2015, 05:26 PM
Hell my 24 year old Mazda truck only has 137,000 miles.

I still think I want Soul Red, but this is interesting. Reminds me of the Suzuka Blue on the S2000, and the amazing but metallic blues on 60s Corvettes.

Am I the only one that thinks this blue would look brilliant with a red interior?

http://i.imgur.com/iKyQHuu.jpg

Random
June 10th, 2015, 06:02 PM
Which red? Like real red (93LE)?

thesameguy
June 10th, 2015, 06:58 PM
That whole rear end situation hurts my eyes. :(

But, check out those cool vintage dealer plates. :up:

Godson
June 10th, 2015, 08:41 PM
That car is damn near spot on.

shakes
June 11th, 2015, 05:56 AM
My 13 yr old has 120k miles on it.

If a 13 yr old S2000 has only sub 60k miles, you gotta ask what the owner has been smoking! ;)

The dealer I work for has a 2000 S2K with 38,000KMs on it. It literally gets driven 5 or 6 times a year and thats it. You don't put a lot of miles on your cars when you've got your choice of 7 or 8 of them to drive around at any given point in time.

I want the new Miata to sell well, really really well so that Honda will finally realize that there IS still a market for affordable sports cars and maybe just maybe they'll make a proper enthusiast's car again.

Rikadyn
June 11th, 2015, 06:58 AM
saw one in the wild tuesday

Crazed_Insanity
June 11th, 2015, 08:34 AM
The dealer I work for has a 2000 S2K with 38,000KMs on it. It literally gets driven 5 or 6 times a year and thats it. You don't put a lot of miles on your cars when you've got your choice of 7 or 8 of them to drive around at any given point in time.

I want the new Miata to sell well, really really well so that Honda will finally realize that there IS still a market for affordable sports cars and maybe just maybe they'll make a proper enthusiast's car again.

Well, I'm talking for poor folks like me who don't got a whole lot of choices when it comes to which car to choose to commute with! :p

Anyway, Miata has been selling pretty well the whole time right? Honda just doesn't care about enthusiasts anymore. Bean counters have taken over... anyway, maybe new management will be different? At least the CEO that pulled out of F-1 is gone... We'll see.

Random
June 11th, 2015, 08:56 AM
Anyway, Miata has been selling pretty well the whole time right?

Depends on your definition of "pretty well."


Mazda MX-5/Miata Sales by Model Year NORTH AMERICAModel year Series U.S.
1990 MY NA(1) 51,658
1991 MY NA(1) 34,610
1992 MY NA(1) 24,847
1993 MY NA(1) 22,350
1994 MY NA(1) 22,705
1995 MY NA(2) 20,790
1996 MY NA(2) 17,984
1997 MY NA(2) 17,381
1999 MY NB(1) 36,450
2000 MY NB(1) 18,121
2001 MY NB(2) 16,165
2002 MY NB(2) 15,956
2003 MY NB(2) 10,547
2004 MY NB(2) 9,629
2005 MY NB(2) 7,760
2006 MY NC(1) 17,730

This other chart fills in the more recent history:



Year

Mazda MX-5 Miata
U.S. Sales


Mazda MX-5 Miata
Canadian Sales




2002


14,392

n/a



2003


10,920

n/a



2004


9356

1146



2005


9801

857



2006


16,897

1582



2007


15,075

1814



2008


10,977

1407



2009


7917

850



2010


6370

736



2011


5674

612



2012


6305

711



2013


5780

554



2014


4745

511



2015 YTD *


2214

209




So, very robust sales (for a niche car) early on, tapering off as the market saturated and other options became available. Little sales bumps when the generation changed (99, 06). For comparison, Porsche has been selling between 5k-12k 911s per year for the last decade.

The really nice thing is that Mazda hasn't given up on a car that is "only" selling 5k units a year.

GB
June 11th, 2015, 09:14 AM
That whole rear end situation hurts my eyes.

Disagree. I'm in lurve.


That car is damn near spot on.

AGREE!


The really nice thing is that Mazda hasn't given up on a car that is "only" selling 5k units a year.

Passion. AND I think Mazda is thankful for every single sale. Other brands (particularly The General) toss their customers aside after purchase and are only interested in you if you want to buy another new car.

thesameguy
June 11th, 2015, 10:11 AM
Disagree. I'm in lurve.

Meh. Different strokes. Looks like some aborted combination of Z8, F-Type, and '90s Kei car to me. I'd still drive one and probably love it, but it ain't pretty.

Crazed_Insanity
June 11th, 2015, 11:27 AM
Yeah, not a big fan of the new butt either, but it'll probably grow on me...

Kudos for Mazda to keep at it with Miata. I thought they're selling at least 10k units every year thus far..., but looks like they're limping along at 5k units for a few years... wonder if they're breaking even with 5k units. 911 probably has huge profit margins, but I can't believe Mazda makes a whole lot of profit like this...

CudaMan
June 11th, 2015, 12:42 PM
Well, the desirable model is up to $33k now... Wasn't that long ago that S2000 MSRP was very close to that.

TheBenior
June 11th, 2015, 07:18 PM
I've said it before, I'll say it again: Miatas have never been econobox cheap.

Adjust the $13,800 power steering, window, and air conditioning optional 1990 NA for inflation, it's a $24k car.

Adjust my $25k 1997 M-Edition for inflation, it's a $36k car.

I doubt Mazda has made more than negligible profits from the Miata for quite a while now.

Random
June 11th, 2015, 07:24 PM
Yeah, in hindsight, the current MX-5 is a huge bargain.

KillerB
June 11th, 2015, 08:43 PM
Which red? Like real red (93LE)?

Yes. :)

KillerB
June 11th, 2015, 08:47 PM
I've said it before, I'll say it again: Miatas have never been econobox cheap.

Adjust the $13,800 power steering, window, and air conditioning optional 1990 NA for inflation, it's a $24k car.

Adjust my $25k 1997 M-Edition for inflation, it's a $36k car.

I doubt Mazda has made more than negligible profits from the Miata for quite a while now.

Yes, this.

Random
June 11th, 2015, 09:01 PM
Yes. :)

Word.

thesameguy
June 12th, 2015, 09:32 AM
Indeed.

Crazed_Insanity
June 12th, 2015, 10:04 AM
Wow! Haven't paid that close attention to Miata pricing over the years... didn't realize they're that expensive!

Hmm... so Mazda surely profited more from Miata than Honda did for the S2000! Probably why Mazda was able to kept going...

Kchrpm
June 12th, 2015, 10:07 AM
Hmm... so Mazda surely profited more from Miata than Honda did for the S2000! Probably why Mazda was able to kept going...
Yep! It's all about the Benjamins.

FaultyMario
June 12th, 2015, 11:49 AM
Yes.


Differences between real and true?

KillerB
August 7th, 2015, 09:55 PM
I've literally seen one ND in the wild (and since I live literally less than 10 minutes from Mazda NA HQ in Irvine, it very well may have not been sold to the public yet), but Flyin' Miata already has a "Little Big Brake Kit" available. The advantage over the factory Brembo system offered as an upgrade on the Club trim level is that this uses the stock 11" rotors and hence will fit under the very attractive RS Watanabe-like 16" base wheels. In fact, they'll even fit under 15" wheels, if you insist.

FM LBBK (https://www.flyinmiata.com/fm-nd-four-wheel-little-big-brake-kit.html)

Yw-slayer
August 7th, 2015, 10:13 PM
C&D or R&T or whatever american mag have done a video face-off between the MX-5 and the BRZ.

Sad, little man
August 8th, 2015, 04:51 AM
Which car's convertible top goes down faster? :assclown:

Godson
August 8th, 2015, 07:27 AM
I saw an ND in the wild. Looked great.

KillerB
August 14th, 2015, 02:14 PM
Configurator is up, not that there's much to choose from.

I think, having seen a few in the flesh with the tan leather, that I'd get the Grand Touring and then just add LSD and some suspension bits from Flyin' Miata. Adding the GT bits would be much harder.

MR2 Fan
August 15th, 2015, 09:40 AM
C&D or R&T or whatever american mag have done a video face-off between the MX-5 and the BRZ.

yeah I watched it. I think the BRZ (and FR-S) is still limited by the stock tire choice. I think changing to the same kind of tires the MX-5 has would make a huge difference (They're Bridgestone Potenzas IIRC)

Yw-slayer
August 16th, 2015, 06:39 AM
I'm biased, but yes, I agree. Pilot Supersports are great. Even something like Pilot Sport 3s would be much better. I have the same stock tyres on the S-Max and fully intend to swap them out for Pilot Sport 3s at some point.

GB
August 29th, 2015, 12:40 AM
Daytona Mazda has 6 2016s in stock, various trims and colors.

All 6 are automatics.

TheBenior
August 29th, 2015, 01:43 AM
When I went to the Schaumburg, IL Mazda dealer, they had one Miata with what looked like every option including automatic :/

Freude am Fahren
August 29th, 2015, 09:35 AM
I was at a couple of Mazda dealers last week. Both had just one ND, both automatic. There was probably a third in the showroom I didn't go in, but that's all. In South Florida of all places too.

BTW, one of the Mazda salesmen drove a green slammed NA. My mom asked him as he was getting in it to leave for the day "How do you go over speedbumps in that.?" "Very slow," he said. :lol: :|

GB
August 29th, 2015, 07:48 PM
*"slowly"[/grammar nazi]

;)

Random
August 29th, 2015, 08:09 PM
Rumor has it that Mazda included too many autos in the first shipment, which might be why they are the ones sitting in showrooms.

samoht
August 30th, 2015, 01:52 AM
Doh!

Godson
August 30th, 2015, 11:09 AM
Every auto is too many.

The359
September 28th, 2015, 07:37 AM
http://jalopnik.com/2017-fiat-124-spider-this-is-it-1733363750

Unmasked Fiat 124 Spyder spotted.

Crazed_Insanity
September 28th, 2015, 12:45 PM
Hmm..., nicer looking than the new Miata I think...

The359
November 18th, 2015, 10:47 AM
http://jalopnik.com/2017-fiat-124-spider-this-is-it-all-official-and-stuf-1743199857

So, thoughts? 160hp in the Fiat versus 155hp in the Miata, but a lot more torque from the turbo. Should sound similar to the 500 Abarth as it is the same motor. However it appears the basic "Classic" edition is the only one with a manual transmission, while the more luxurious "Lusso" is an automatic.

I like the front a lot better than the Miata, but the rear is very meh.

21Kid
November 18th, 2015, 10:49 AM
I think it looks alright.

Jason
November 18th, 2015, 12:31 PM
I like the Fiat's looks more, minus the silver windshield bit, should be interesting to see a comparison on the engines, two different approaches for similar peak horsepower.

samoht
November 18th, 2015, 01:44 PM
Looks like a pocket Viper to me ;-) More Chrysler than Fiat.

Anyway, however good or bad it looks; it's an MX-5 with a factory turbo motor, thus an opportunity to wind up the boost and have a properly fast sports car on the cheap !

TheBenior
November 18th, 2015, 01:53 PM
I like that it's got a factory turbo, but I find the back end all kinds of boring. The back end of the ND Miata looks a little odd to me, but I find boring to be a bigger affront than odd.

Now we just need the ND to sell well enough to get some version of the 2.5 turbo from the new CX-9 (http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-mazda-cx-9-first-look-review/).

thesameguy
November 18th, 2015, 02:09 PM
I'm not a fan of it cosmetically, but I think in my head I kept thinking "Alfa Romeo" and not "Fiat," so maybe I'm letting unrealistic expectations cloud my judgment. ;)

I don't much care for the ND Miata, either. Both cars are fine, but not outstanding by a long shot. Ultimately, there isn't much sheet metal or MSRP to work with, and both cars are more about the drive than the flash so who cares. The 1.4l in a RWD app could be fun, though it's hard to say whether it will detract from the Miata experience too much. For most people, I don't think it'll be a roadblock *at all* and its existence will help Mazda's bottom line so that's all good.

Here's to dreaming about a new RX7... :)

Random
March 22nd, 2016, 03:46 PM
2017 "Retractable Fastback" model just announced, the "MX-5 RF."

It's not really a fastback, it has flying buttresses. :p Looks pretty nice, though. :up:

thesameguy
March 22nd, 2016, 04:14 PM
Whoa, not bad. Not bad at all. I don't care if it's a misnomer, RF sounds way better than PRT.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--EJCS979t--/uvswnq14oduk4oimfbom.gif

BOINGY BOINGY BOINGY!

Random
March 22nd, 2016, 04:19 PM
Since the buttresses stay up, the whole top fits behind the seats and there's no reduction in trunk space. Nice engineering. :up:

thesameguy
March 22nd, 2016, 04:26 PM
Agreed - that thing looks like a lot of win!

FaultyMario
March 22nd, 2016, 07:34 PM
Fap, fap, fap.

Yw-slayer
March 23rd, 2016, 12:04 AM
Effing sweet.

Jason
March 23rd, 2016, 02:29 AM
God damn, that's beautiful.

novicius
March 23rd, 2016, 03:24 AM
Very, very sharp! :up:

(Tho' I still think the PRHT is a damn slick car, too.)

Freude am Fahren
March 23rd, 2016, 06:56 AM
Very nice. I don't like the weird black gloss for the top and side bits that stay, but that may be an option. I'd like to see all that's not glass be body color. Reminds me of the Solstice Coupe (/targa)

GB
May 11th, 2016, 07:44 AM
http://www.daytonamazda.com/new-Daytona+Beach-2016-Mazda-MX+5+Miata-Club-JM1NDAC73G0107725


Took a test drive in this exact car on Monday. First Miata I've been in since a friend (Gilles27, for those who remember) had an '01 15 years ago.
This new car is absolutely wonderful.

Being a bit on the heavy side, I wanted to see if I felt cramped in such a small cockpit. I didn't. Everything is laid out beautifully and falls perfectly to hand. The only thing I noticed was that the A-pillar and windscreen top were more in the field of view than I am accustomed to. I'm only 5'7"... seems like it would be even worse the taller a person is. The center mounted infotainment screen was very hard to read in the intense Florida sun on a perfect Monday afternoon. But visually, the interior is pleasing. I am forced to admit the materials are of a higher quality than my '07 Saab Aero. Only time will reveal how well they hold up, but I don't recall hearing Miata owners complain that their interiors are falling apart, so that's a good sign. (GM-based interiors seem to get rattle-y, and bits and pieces go rogue.)

The clutch and gearbox are, as reviewers have stated, perfect. No other way to describe it. Steering is perfect. Florida roads are flat, straight, and smooth, but I love the way the car handles and feels. It is NOT slow with its "lowly" 155hp. It suits the car. However, if a turbo model was available.... damn. Just, DAMN.

I told the sales guy right off the bat that I wasn't there to buy. I wanted to see if I fit in the car, and wanted to see if they had any solid info on when the RF will start arriving. He was cool about it... a young guy of 22 years.... said it was a slow Monday afternoon, and picked out a nice manual Club with the Brembo/BBS upgrade, just how I would want one. I said, "I know your 'official' test-drive route, and it's fine with me." He said, "Dude, I'm just glad to get out of the building. What do you want to do? Get lunch? Go to the beach? Cruise for Brazilian bikini babes?" lol While all of those sounded better than the grocery shopping I needed to do after the test drive, I declined them all.

I know I said this last summer, but I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get one. I'm going to wait till the RF drops, and compare the soft top with it side-by-side and see which one turns me on more. It's a great automobile.

Kchrpm
May 11th, 2016, 08:07 AM
Cruise for Brazilian bikini babes?
Make sure you buy from this guy, if only for my sake.

Godson
May 14th, 2016, 09:06 PM
I concur. Dude sounds real.

KillerB
August 16th, 2016, 03:19 PM
The Miata is faster than the 124 Abarth.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2017-fiat-124-spider-abarth-vs-2016-mazda-mx-5-miata-club-comparison-test

Also, 14.8 in the 1/4 on a stock Miata... times sure have changed!

thesameguy
August 16th, 2016, 03:29 PM
Meh... loaded test. They even nip it in the bud by disclaiming it, but then dismiss the flaws in their own tests suggesting they have merit. It's a difference drive, drive it differently.

Edit: Which isn't to say I like the 1.4t - it's a dumb motor to put in this car, but still, if you want to conduct an empirical test do so but don't then try to couch it as a real-world simulation.

KillerB
August 16th, 2016, 03:45 PM
I think it's near-as-makes-no-difference, but clearly the weight and gearing differences wiped out the power and torque differences.

What we all really want is a boosted version of the Mazda 2.0L, or better yet, some kinda rotary.

thesameguy
August 16th, 2016, 09:29 PM
I think the big misstep is that the 124 was tiny, loud, and slow and now the 124 is the larger, quieter, slower Miata. :lol: That aside, the new 124 is supposed to be the more, I don't know, refined of the two so, well, mission accomplished. ;) They aren't supposed to be directly competitive, so to compare the two kinda misses the point. It'd be like comparing the Dart the 200 because they're both C platforms. Different cars, different purposes.

In any case, totally agreed, we need *real* MazdaSpeed Miata, or a Miata-based RX... 3?

samoht
August 24th, 2016, 10:01 AM
Fiat possibly planning a fixed-roof version of the 124 Spider:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/fiat-124-spider-get-fixed-roof-coup%C3%A9-variant

Phil_SS
August 24th, 2016, 10:14 AM
YES YES YES!

samoht
December 30th, 2016, 04:05 AM
My favourite car journo, Henry Catchpole, driving a 6.3L 525hp 'Habu' Flyin' Miata at Streets of Willow
https://www.drivetribe.com/gallery/E6Bgc-QIR3GDEOSd4VxCjg/MLrPBObESR2Bv3GO_fumvg/EK29Qn_NR0SL4FGv0oI_pA