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FaultyMario
September 4th, 2014, 02:15 PM
This is the Italian GP thread or I guess we could instead call it, look who's really popular with the ferraristi. (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/raik-2.jpg)

You know the drill

Freude am Fahren
September 4th, 2014, 05:06 PM
By the way, Nico's new nickname is Nipple Cockberg.

Godson
September 4th, 2014, 06:06 PM
:lol:

Alan P
September 4th, 2014, 07:57 PM
'I'd better get your autograph this year Kimi as I don't think you'll be here in a Ferrari next year!'?

overpowered
September 4th, 2014, 10:59 PM
Douchebag could be the name of so many of them.

MR2 Fan
September 5th, 2014, 03:42 AM
...except Kobayashi who is back to race this week, woohoo!

SupraDupra
September 5th, 2014, 08:12 AM
iwouldreallyliketoseekimiwin

But, somehow, I think LH bounces back.

FaultyMario
September 5th, 2014, 08:20 AM
'I'd better get your autograph this year Kimi as I don't think you'll be here in a Ferrari next year!'?

Best one I've read is Mattiaci slipping-in his renewal to Alonso.

XHawkeye
September 5th, 2014, 07:15 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwwXZVlCAAA6di7.jpg:large

But they're still at the front of the stand for first practice? pic.twitter.com/FoOy7DuKpm

Freude am Fahren
September 5th, 2014, 08:31 PM
:lol:

I don't mind the tech that much, including the lack of sound. The only things I mind are

a) The new circuits. They are right. Why do they insist on making these new courses with umpteen hairpins and switchbacks? Monza, A-1, Spa. All fantastic, the first two don't even have 20 turns combined. Spa only has a lot because it's so long.

b) The whole endurance aspect of the rules.

overpowered
September 5th, 2014, 10:08 PM
Agree. The new engine sound was a bit odd at first but I've gotten used to it.


I'm not a fan of most flat tracks. Some elevation change tends to make it a little more interesting.

FaultyMario
September 6th, 2014, 07:03 AM
1. Lewis Hamilton 1’24.109
2. Nico Rosberg 1’24.383
3. Valtteri Bottas 1’24.697
4. Felipe Massa 1’24.865
5. Kevin Magnussen 1’25.314
6. Jenson Button 1’25.379
7. Fernando Alonso 1’25.430
8. Sebastian Vettel 1’25.436
9. Daniel Ricciardo 1’25.709
10. Sergio Perez 1’25.944
11. Kimi Raikkonen 1’26.110
12. Jean-Eric Vergne 1’26.157
13. Nico Hulkenberg 1’26.279
14. Adrian Sutil 1’26.588
15. Esteban Gutierrez 1’26.692
16. Pastor Maldonado 1’27.520
17. Romain Grosjean 1’27.632
18. Kamui Kobayashi 1’27.671
19. Jules Bianchi 1’27.738
20. Max Chilton 1’28.247
21. Daniil Kvyat* 1’26.070
22. Marcus Ericsson** 1’28.562

XHawkeye
September 6th, 2014, 12:36 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw11f9_IEAAmJ4Y.jpg:large

It's Race Weekend!!! #ItalianGP #Monza #Formula1 #F1 pic.twitter.com/NP3bTog1XZ
(pic.twitter.com/NP3bTog1XZ)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw2iXb9IEAEGZ7i.jpg:large

We’re waving. RT @astro_reid: Any #F1 fans out there? I think this is Autodromo Nazionale Monza pic.twitter.com/O33j9y99bY

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw2Vl-qIYAA0rlF.jpg:large

Vettel’s sequence of dreadful helmet designs continues at Monza with this monstrosity.

#F1 pic.twitter.com/LeLCz3QCri

Godson
September 6th, 2014, 12:38 PM
That looks like a Cerwinske design...

Blerpa
September 6th, 2014, 01:31 PM
Oh, the old Parabolica of the oval track section... sigh.

Alan P
September 6th, 2014, 03:42 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw11f9_IEAAmJ4Y.jpg:large



This must be a really old picture as there are no chicanes that I can see? 60's or 70's at least judging by the fairly rudimentary pit complex and tiny amount of gravel trap at Parabolica.

Freude am Fahren
September 6th, 2014, 03:58 PM
Vettel's lid looks like the dazzle camo used on recent prototypes, like the 919.

samoht
September 7th, 2014, 10:26 AM
Enjoyed that, seems like Lewis had the legs of Nico today.

I'd put the championship at 50/50 between the two of them now - Lewis is faster on average, but Nico has a points buffer. With equal reliability to the end of the season, I'd say it's very finely balanced between them.

Great racing by Dan Ricciardo, especially, and Bottas to come back from 11th to 4th. Generally a fun race to watch, lots of overtaking.

Freude am Fahren
September 7th, 2014, 11:03 AM
Assuming reliability for all, I'd put it at about 50/50. Just like you say, Lewis' speed advantage vs. Nico's headstart about evens it out.

Taking into account luck, I'd put it at about 40/50 advantage Nico, with Daniel having about a 10% chance.

As we've talked about, Red Bull has some circuits that should suit them left, including the double points finale at Abu Dhabi. If circumstances allow Daniel to stay within 20-30 pts. of the leader by then, I'd put my money on him.

Somethign we haven't really talked about, and I'm not sure of the answer, is how the circuits suit the two Mercedes drivers vs. each other. I think outright speed they are very close, with Lewis generally being given the advantage. Nico's always been good at Monaco, so maybe tracks like Singapore and Abu Dhabi will be his advantage. Tough to say.

samoht
September 7th, 2014, 01:41 PM
I agree, if reliability / luck continues as it has so far, then Nico is more likely to win.

Dan is really impressive, especially getting past several Mercedes-powered cars at a 'power' track. He's arguably shown himself as the best driver of 2014 - however even he can't overcome the Mercedes pair's car advantage. He's only ever picked up the pieces when Merc have messed up, he's never beaten them outright on pace. Even if Mercedes trip over themselves a few more times, I really can't see him being able to 'do a Kimi' a la 2007, I'd say that's <5% chance.

I do see him being WDC in the future, though - once the anomaly of the new regulations evens out, and RB are back near the front, I can easily see him winning it in future, and he has plenty of years ahead.

Freude am Fahren
September 7th, 2014, 02:45 PM
He's really made Vettel look pedestrian.

overpowered
September 7th, 2014, 06:58 PM
Vettel should have gotten used to the car by now.
Kimi should have gotten used to the car by now.

They've both had some bad luck but after this many races, you can't blame it all on bad luck. They both get outclassed by their teammate in pretty much every race.

I was glad to see Massa finally get a podium. It's been a while for him.

Nico vs. Lewis is not over by any means.

F Alonso.

Godson
September 7th, 2014, 09:07 PM
Interesting race. Still trying to figure out why Vettel and Kimi can't get the cars to respond the way they want. It is a little disconcerting.

overpowered
September 7th, 2014, 11:21 PM
I do see him being WDC in the future, though - once the anomaly of the new regulations evens out, and RB are back near the front, I can easily see him winning it in future, and he has plenty of years ahead.Are they going to be able to update the engines next year?

Vettel and Kimi have each only beaten their teammate in one race this season where both drivers on the team finished. They also each have a points finish where their teammate did not finish.

IMOA
September 8th, 2014, 12:28 AM
The frightening thing is that in those two cases Kimi won when alonso had a 5 second penalty (I think Kimi would have beaten him anyway) and Vettel won when Dan had to avoid the first corner accident (I think Dan would have finished 20-30 seconds in front). 10 laps in I thought that this was the race that Vettel was going to beat Dan and I thought that Red Bull left Dan out 3 laps too long but the way he came back through on the primes was quite amazing. Yes his tyres were newer but when the roles were reversed and he was on 23 lap old options and everyone else was on 1-4 lap old primes he was only giving up 0-0.3 seconds a lap. Give him 5 lap newer tyres and he's taking a second a lap off them.

I've followed Dan for a long time so I do try to temper my fanboyism but he's just been so good this year. He's completely schooling Vettel and I reckon almost every driver on the grid could learn a lot by sitting down and watching his overtaking moves. No fluffing about, no waving front wings around in no mans land, no trailing about burning tyres up, he just arrives, makes an immediate decisive move, puts his car in the perfect place and gets the job done. And when the other driver manages to pull a defence out Dan seems to have plan B, C and D in his pocket ready to play.

So, race. I'm glad Lucy managed to pull the win, he was better than nico all weekend and I'm hoping for a proper contest for the WDC.

I'm not a big Perez fan but what he did to Button was some real top shelf driving.

I thought they were a bit tough on Magnussan given the 'let them race' stewarding we've seen most of this year. Imo it was a racing incident and Magnussan was a bit naughty as Bottas had made it half a car in front but he wasn't so naughty that he deserved a penalty.

I know everyone generally hates Massa but I still retain a bit of a soft spot for him and was happy to see him on the podium.

Kimi. It's just embarrassing really. I don't think he's going to get a handle on these cars at all so if they might as well have a go with someone like Bianchi imo.

samoht
September 8th, 2014, 04:58 AM
Surprising quote from BBC - "Hamilton's minimum speed at the first Lesmo in qualifying was an eye-opening 15km/h faster than Rosberg's". I mean, 15kmh is 10mph faster, that's more than the difference between say me and Cudaman. I imagine partly Nico was deliberately slowing the car more and hoping to get better drive out, it can't just be skill, but it's still a surprise.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29102305


Are they going to be able to update the engines next year?

I heard something like they can change 48% of the engines over the winter, no idea if it will be the right 48% to let them get on terms. Overall I think it's a pretty sure bet that the differences between engines will reduce over the next three years - if Renault and Ferrari can't sort their issues within the regs, the pressure to reopen the freeze will become unstoppable - otherwise F1 would become a spec engine series.

Freude am Fahren
September 8th, 2014, 07:21 AM
Wouldn't it be better to not freeze engine regs, and just mandate a price/allowance from each engine manufacturer to the customer? I mean it's not like there are any "little guys" to protect in the engine supplier department.

SupraDupra
September 8th, 2014, 08:23 AM
It was great to see Massa on the podium. Good for him. And good on the fans for their super warm response.

Crazed_Insanity
September 8th, 2014, 08:36 AM
Difficult to mandate price/allowance/spending..., one can always cook the books...

Perhaps FIA can limit sponsorship amount and cut things off at the source! Limit an maximum amount of money a team can raise... and then the 'extra' amount team raised can then be 'donated' to smaller struggling teams of their choice.

Anyway, regarding Kimi and Vettel's performances this year, yeah, not sure what happened to their mojo. So uncharacteristic of them... I can sort of understand Kimi, new team... and he doesn't care for the politics of big teams and he's old and he's up against one of the best. But what's Vettel's problem? Makes me wonder if Massa was still with Ferrari, would he score more than Kimi? I'd think so. Likewise, if Webber didn't retire, would this year be the year that he kicks Vettel's ass? (Even though he most likely won't be in contention for the championship!)

Interesting, but odd season.

XHawkeye
September 8th, 2014, 09:12 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw8OBr_IMAAk15n.jpg:large

XHawkeye
September 8th, 2014, 09:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCKILnnohUs

Alan P
September 8th, 2014, 03:17 PM
Judging by the fuel usage figures we occasionally see on the TV, Lewis managed to be faster than Nico all while using less fuel, and seems to be consistently so at every track. There's not a huge amount in it, usually around 2-3% better, but on some tracks, if it means he can start a bit lighter you will see a benefit, even if it's only 0.05 of a second per lap.

overpowered
September 8th, 2014, 05:05 PM
if Renault and Ferrari can't sort their issues within the regs, the pressure to reopen the freeze will become unstoppable - otherwise F1 would become a spec engine series.It is a bit frustrating that they can't do anything to develop the engine. It's feeling like a spec engine series except that there's 3 different specs.

IMOA
September 8th, 2014, 08:05 PM
The 'no development to engines' thing is a bit of a myth, there's actually quite a bit they can do and quite a bit they have done. From this year to next they're able to change 48% (I've also read 44% but either way it's quite a bit) and this is calculated by weight so if you're keeping things like the block and the crank you've got pretty much carte blanche to do whatever the hell you want.

FaultyMario
September 9th, 2014, 05:21 AM
Judging by the fuel usage figures we occasionally see on the TV, Lewis managed to be faster than Nico all while using less fuel, and seems to be consistently so at every track. There's not a huge amount in it, usually around 2-3% better, but on some tracks, if it means he can start a bit lighter you will see a benefit, even if it's only 0.05 of a second per lap.

Isn't Rosberg the one who underfuels? you know, to close the gap to the faster Lewis.
What I've read is that Lewis is around 4 or 5 tenths quicker, and Nico's setup brings it down 2 tenths. And that whenever Nico's FP runs get shortened, he really struggles to even things out.

FaultyMario
September 9th, 2014, 06:30 AM
Great Gallery. Shame It's missing Dan's pass on Kimi from the front. (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/09/09/top-ten-pictures-2014-italian-grand-prix/)

Ric around parabolica and the start are petrol-fap material, IMO-

tigeraid
September 9th, 2014, 07:23 AM
Ric is a boss, he is ruining Vettel this year. I'll go ahead and voice the unpopular/unspoken opinion that I think Vettel was massively overrated up to this point, and we're seeing why now. He took proper advantage of the CAR'S advantages in the seasons where they were unstoppable, but he frequently looked human against Webbo, and now looks downright slow against Ric. It's a Schumacher-esque scenario if I ever saw one. One of the best of the era, but if you ignore pure number of victories, it's hard to say "best." His car was best. He was merely good. And his teammate is showing that now.

FaultyMario
September 9th, 2014, 10:00 AM
I'm gonna go against that and say that these rule changes are only highlighting the best of Dan's abilities: attacking.

Look at Hamilton.. he's an aggressive driver the current regs also show him in a better light. Is he that much better than Rosberg? 15 km/h mid corner faster, always?

I'll elaborate more on how the current shakeup empowers attacking drivers. now I got to get my best buddy from daycare.

Crazed_Insanity
September 9th, 2014, 12:59 PM
Yeah, something about the new rules/cars that's causing Vettel's problem. I don't think Webber is a lousy driver. Forget about RB superiority in the past, Vettel beat Webber fair and square consistently. And that was not like Schuey era where his teammates were designated as or contractually required to be #2 drivers.

Anyway, I think we're witnessing just exactly how good Ric and Alonso are... at least in the adaptability department. Once Kimi and Vettel sort their shit out, I'm sure they'll be back in the game soon... anyway, look forward to read whatever Mario has to elaborate on why attackers benefit more with this year's cars...

Reynard
September 9th, 2014, 01:35 PM
We just need to see Daniel drive a Liana around some runways & taxiways to know where he really stands. ;)

Godson
September 9th, 2014, 02:22 PM
:lol: with family and new pup to boot.

Tom Servo
September 10th, 2014, 09:11 PM
For those of us in the US watching on NBC, anyone else notice that on the results screen they had a Danish flag next to Massa's name and a Brazilian next to Raikkonen?

I would have understood if there was a Finnish flag next to Massa, just simply transposing things, but where'd the Danish one come from?

samoht
September 11th, 2014, 04:54 AM
Magnussen?

Freude am Fahren
September 11th, 2014, 07:21 AM
Yeah, I would guess in their graphics program they check a drivers name for the flag. Magnussen would be righ above Massa.

Anyone have a screen grab? Working in TV, I can maybe give a complete theory.

Tom Servo
September 11th, 2014, 07:16 PM
I deleted it, but I can see if it's still in the Tivo deleted items folder. I can't screen grab from there, but I can take a high tech picture.

Edit: Nope, Tivo already killed it.

overpowered
September 11th, 2014, 09:50 PM
It was still in my Tivo's trash. I don't have the equipment to do screen grabs from my Tivo.

Flags look correct on race results screen shown at 2:06. Massa's got a Brazilian flag, Kimi's got a Finish flag.

Driver's standings at 2:16 and 2:23 is where they screwed up. Massa's got a Danish flag and Kimi's got a Brazilian flag as you noticed.

They only showed the top 11 in the driver's standings so they didn't show Magnussen