New sports car - Merc AMG GT

[samoht]

What do you think?

http://resize.gwsrv.net/do.php?w=940&q=80&src=http://cdn.gwsrv.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/launch09092014CR0909141.jpg"]http://resize.gwsrv.net/do.php?w=940&q=80&src=http://cdn.gwsrv.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/launch09092014CR0909141.jpg

Gallery: http://grrc.goodwood.com/road/news/mercedes-amg-gt-porsche-concerned#/1

My opinion:
I really like it, I love cars with these classic FR proportions, love the smooth muscular styling lines, and being more compact than the SLS is great. Next question marks are the gearbox and chassis, especially the steering.

(I think it's ideal to form one's own opinion about styling of a new car, without being influenced by that of others, hence the spoiler tags).

[Freude am Fahren]

I think it looks a lot better than I thought it was going to based on the prototypes/teasers. Though I think it would have looked better in Merc's previous design philosophy with the harder lines. Not a big fan of the current language based on the C/CLA/S.

[speedpimp]

Sexiness.

[Drachen596]

softer SLS with a Porsche back end?

[neanderthal]

softer SLS with a Porsche back end?
I think as much.

Distance from door to front wheel too long, but otherwise, not bad.
I prefer the slightly harder edged previous styling language to this as well.

[The359]

It looks a bit too much like a slightly stretched SLK, at least from the front.

[Yw-slayer]

I think it looks alright, but somehow I prefer the SL and the SLS. Then again, even if I had the money to buy it, I'd never buy it, so I guess the point is moot. :lol:

Having said that, the only MBs I've ever really liked are the first-gen R230 SL, and maybe the current-gen C63/E63 wagons. The SLR and SLS I don't mind, and the rest I generally dislike. If R230 SL maintenance, and parking for a car in HKG, wasn't so expensive I'd seriously look into picking one up.

[Freude am Fahren]

That center console/stack is ridiculous.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/cymanbzso1b55g8iyxem.jpg

[tigeraid]

I like it a lot better than the old SLS, for sure. Shades of some Jaguar in there.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Nice, but not sure if it would be on the top of my list to get even assuming I have the kind of money to buy that kinda car.

[thesameguy]

I don't like it one iota, nor the SLS that came before it. Modern Mercedes styling cues don't translate at all to this type of car. And it's probably just the photo, but that interior looks super cheap to me - like someone glued suede all over an Elantra.

[Mr Wonder]

I think it looks great with the one exception of the screen in the interior. Whoever came up with the "tablet resting in a pocket in the dash" look they're going with at the moment should be shot, it's literally the laziest design choice I've seen on a car interior.
No proper manual though?

[The359]

Merc gave up on manuals for their top of the line stuff years ago. The SLR and SLS were both automatics.

[samoht]

No three-pedal version, however the SLS and this GT are DSG, which at least gives you a direct fixed connection between engine and wheels.

[Fogelhund]

softer SLS with a Porsche back end?

That's basically it... the backend doesn't look like it belongs to me.

[Freude am Fahren]

Completely agree on this tablet in a pocket screen trend.

[samoht]

How else would you integrate a touchscreen into that area of the dashboard?

[Freude am Fahren]

Imagine stretching a thin piece of fabric over it all, and it would look fine. I don't know why it has to be so separate.

[M4FFU]

I think they've ruined the SLS with this. :\

[Crazed_Insanity]

Regarding the tablet look..., I don't mind that at all, it's just that why don't they just freaking use the ipad or allow people to use whatever tablet they want by putting up a docking station up on the dash? Will car makers really make better tablets than Apple or Samsung or whatever other tablet makers?

[KillerB]

No three-pedal version, however the SLS and this GT are DSG, which at least gives you a direct fixed connection between engine and wheels.

I thought Mercedes actually used a planetary transmission (automatic transmission guts) with a robotized clutch replacing the torque converter?

[KillerB]

Regarding the tablet look..., I don't mind that at all, it's just that why don't they just freaking use the ipad or allow people to use whatever tablet they want by putting up a docking station up on the dash? Will car makers really make better tablets than Apple or Samsung or whatever other tablet makers?

I think they're hoping that at some point there will be an industry standard connector.

[Freude am Fahren]

I think they've ruined the SLS with this. :\

I think the SLS is ending production already.

[FaultyMario]

I know, I need to win the lottery before the end of this month and then call up a bunch of dealers and see if there's one somewhere!

[Phil_SS]

Best looking Merc in ages. Other than the big AMG wagons.

[Kchrpm]

Regarding the tablet look..., I don't mind that at all, it's just that why don't they just freaking use the ipad or allow people to use whatever tablet they want by putting up a docking station up on the dash? Will car makers really make better tablets than Apple or Samsung or whatever other tablet makers?
Because, if it can control systems within the car, they need to have a good amount of control over it. If all it's doing is controlling the sound system, that's one thing, but when you can control the HVAC, adjust the suspension and transmission, etc, just having some apps you throw up on an app store is IMO not enough.

[thesameguy]

I'm sure that is the entire argument... I do wonder how true it actually is, like really.

[Kchrpm]

Let's say you start designing the thing in 2014 for a 2016 model. Merc advertises 3 year leases on their site, so you're looking at about 5 years worth of changes from you starting development and testing until the first owners are done with them.

Then you're trying to sell them on as certified pre-owned with the 5th and 6th year of changes, and keeping them working for, what, another 5 years?

How much have iPads changed in 5-6 years? Android tablets? What about 10 years?

Do you trust in Mercedes to keep doing updates to keep up with Apple and Google's changes? Are they going to stick with just Apple, and just hope the resolutions and connection ports don't change again?

IMO the software connection solution, where your iOS or Android device just interfaces with the media and navigation stuff as if it was any other kind of media accessory, rather than making your device control the whole car, is a lot better.

Apple CarPlay: https://www.apple.com/ios/carplay/
Android Auto: http://www.android.com/auto/

[thesameguy]

I seriously doubt Mercedes gives a rip about any 6th year owners on any of their cars. That puts them way past the CPO warranty or anything like that, and Mercedes entire business model is pretty much predicated on people buying new Benzes every 3-4 years. I've got no visibility into it, but I am sure Apple's relationship with big corporate customers is like any technology company, and they provide a roadmap which includes interoperability guarantees and guidelines for some period of time. Usually five years, but maybe more or maybe less. AT&T bought bazillions of iPads for both retail store and carrier field work, and you know they didn't just jump in and say, "Golly, I hope the connectors don't change!" They got guarantees of compatibility and support, and if Benz went down that road, they'd get the same guarantee.

I'm not saying it's a good or realistic or bad idea, I'm just curious about the real roadblocks in executing such a plan. I also really wish car manufacturers would look more heavily towards technology companies for building these devices, too. I personally find it weird that in the past there have been all sorts of standards for cars - especially in Europe where there are common symbols for common functions - but these damned manufacturers feel compelled to reinvent the UI wheel for each generation of cars. It seems like having a common interface for all basic controls is *the* way to go. Even if we'd stuck with Audi's clunkiest designs of ten years ago, we'd be used to them by now. I feel that regardless of whether Apple, Google, or Microsoft executed a UI, if one of them did it rather than relying on car manufacturers we'd have a consistent interface across multiple brands and multiple generations, and maybe drill down on what actually works best. With everything changing every three years, it's taking WAY too long to make any progress. I thought the Microsoft Car initiative (from which Sync and IIRC ChryCo's system evolved) was a very forward-thinking approach to this issue, but ten years later sod all has been actually accomplished. :(

[Kchrpm]

IMO there's a huge difference between retail kiosks and computers you give to your employees, and what you're trying to sell brand new and as CPO to customer in 3-4 years (not customers of 6-year old cars, 6-year old design in a 4 year old car they're trying to sell as CPO). It's not like employees were using their personal iPads as kiosks at AT&T, they just use whatever they're given until they're given something new.

Could it be done? Absolutely. I just don't see many real benefits that aren't more easily fixed by just using the plug-in media stuff that Apple and Android have shown rather than making you plug in your device and have the right app to drive the whole experience.

As for having a consistent interface, we didn't have that with fully mechanical functions! Every person that gets in my car and wants to turn up the volume grabs the big round knob in the center and turns it without a moment of hesitation. Unfortunately that actually switches stations/songs, the volume is the little knob on the far left.

And that's not even getting close to the insanity that is steering column stalks, with cruise control, windshield wipers and turn signals doing all kinds of crazy stuff on different brands.

You have different companies from around the world all trying to make "the best" functional, stylish design, with all of their suppliers and potential suppliers telling them why their design is better. Google's OEMs can't decide which buttons to put on their phones, in what order, and with what icons, and there are basically only 4 potential buttons. Apple has gone from wanting to everything to look like their real world equivalent (e-books sitting on bookshelves, etc) to wanting everything to look as flat and vibrant as possible, to whatever they will want next time.

Having big agreements on general UI stuff would be great, but companies all think they can find something better, and when they do that it will garner them all kinds of riches. There isn't much of a business case to being just like everyone else when you're trying to sell your customers on how special your product is.

[Yw-slayer]

It's simple - you need to face-lift each car and gen to make it easier to sell. BMW goes back and forth between knobs and buttons for HVAC.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Think about it... as the car ages, shifters or knobs can break down. Even Teslas touch panel controls can break down. Replacing broken dash or stolen factory radios or whatever factory equipment can be expensive and painful. Point of allowing users to be able to easily swap out tablet to control car's various function is a good idea IMHO...., as long as car makers provide the right interface/adapters. Further, we really don't need to rely on the auto manufacturers to do these apps too. Plenty of developers/hobbyists can probably do the job cheaper and better. Just take a look a Ford's recent fiasco with their infotainment systems. Brought down their customer satisfaction level for their entire line up simply because they had a lousy infotainment system. Mazda also has great cars, but pretty lousy infotainment systems I think...

I really think automakers should simply focus on building better cars and leave the electronic stuffs to the experts. Plus, I'm sure it'll probably help you sell cars too! Imagine if you promise buyers the newest and latest iphone/ipad with vehicle purchase..., people will be lining up to buy your car!!! ;)

[Kchrpm]

We're not talking about using the owner's tablet just for infotainment, though. Those tablets in the cars control or interface to all kinds of things, seats, suspension, security, backup camera, automatic parallel parking. You can't just open up the API and have hobbyists working on that stuff.

Let the owner plug in their device of choice and get a more advanced media playback from that, but IMO you still need known quantities to deal with the major stuff. Whether via touchscreen or buttons/knobs/switches, there are some things that shouldn't be left to open source and unaffiliated consumer tech companies to take care of. As an option? Ok, but not as the only solution.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Automakers can probably do better when contract these consumer tech companies rather than try to build these things themselves. Just as I'm sure each automaker doesn't make their own special airbags, tires, spark plug, etc. I can understand if they don't wish to share engine mapping data to others or something more proprietary. However, for controlling the A/C, seats, backup camera... or even parallel parking. Why do you think programmers outside of auto industry won't be able to handle them?

Ideally, I'd like to see less # of electrical switches on my dash or door as possible. Less chance of it breaking down on me..., only negative is that sometimes people make like the feel of buttons and knobs, especially when they're driving and don't wish to take their eyes off the road. I did notice how difficult it became to control my iphone when driving over bumpy roads..., but bigger screen/buttons should help. ;)

Anyway, just my thought whenever I see cars with tablet looking screens on the dash. I really think they should just allow users to put in their own tablets. Cars like Model S also scares me... imagine one day the control console screen is busted... surely it'll be expensive to replace, and you'll have no means to control the car until it's fixed. Where as if you have a swappable tablet setup, you can just get another table or perhaps use your cellphone to be able to continue to function...

[Kchrpm]

You said two different things there, though.

Car companies are most definitely already using third parties to design and source their touchscreens and the software behind them. They come up with requirements, look at hardware and UI proposals from potential suppliers vs internal goals, come to an agreement, lock down design and do a ton of testing before releasing the vehicle.

That is incredibly different from telling your customers to plug in their own tablet and giving them a link to iTunes to get the app.

[Kchrpm]

We've had the touchscreens vs mechanical items discussion before, it's a matter of taste: having statically located, tactile controls is better for keeping your eyes on the road, but there's a lot of freedom of design and customization with touchscreens. A good combination of the two seems like the best option to me

[Crazed_Insanity]

I guess I was trying to say that unless an automaker is so bold and honestly believe they can do it better than Apple or Google, then why bother trying to do their own proprietary infotainment system from the ground up? Just as do you really need a proprietary spark plug for your engine? Your engine is really that special? Proprietary sized wheeled that can only fit your particular car and consequently you need special sized tires? I just don't get why they continue to try to reinvent the wheel and it's not like they are inventing better wheels that what's already in the market. It's obvious consumers today do find infotainment systems in cars important nowadays, I just think the automakers are approaching things the wrong way and making their lives more difficult trying to engineer stuffs when there are already stuffs available that's better. Further, lot of car makers are advertising that their systems can easily interface with iphones or android devices... hey, those devices are pretty powerful computers already. Money could be saved so that they don't have to develop their own hardware and just concentrate on the software.

Anyway, I really think a phone could perhaps replace the dash. Maybe a tablet can replace the entire center console controls and can even be used as a backup camera... or turn the dash/phone into a back up camera. We usually don't care for speed info while backing up... For those who still prefer the touch of knobs or switches, we can still have them on the steering wheel, right? Best of both worlds? ;)