Windows 10

[21Kid]

http://az648995.vo.msecnd.net/win/2014/09/Windows_Product_Family_9-30-Event-741x416.png
What about 9? :?Windows 8 must have been so bad that they're just skipping ahead to 10.

http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-jumps-to-windows-10/

The goal with Windows 10, Belfiore stressed, is to "find UI approaches that use the same mouse and keyboard experience evolving from Windows 7 so the touch users get something natural."

Belfiore, during his demo, offered insight into what went wrong with Windows 8. The goal of that OS was based on "the effect that two-in-one's can have for the productivity of Windows to help people get things done," Belfiore said. Two-in-one devices can shape-shift from laptop to tablet, and Microsoft has hoped that Windows can dominate that dual form factor in a way that competitor Apple cannot, with its separate iPad and laptop lines.

"Windows 8's focus on touch, the large start screen, the notion of apps running full-screen as they do on tablet devices...that was to salute the idea that this would be more productivity," Belfiore added. "But we didn't get it right. With Windows 10, we think we got it right."

Some cool new things added too.
http://lifehacker.com/the-coolest-windows-10-features-microsoft-didnt-announc-1642802880

[Freude am Fahren]

I've read that they skipped ten because of a programming oversight on loads of software that will look for something like "If windows version start with 9" ie Windows 95/98. True? Who knows, but it kinda make sense. Was supposedly from a microsoft programmer.

Then again, XBox>XBox 360>XBox One.... So who knows.

[21Kid]

I also read that they wanted to keep with the One theme. But, apparently there was already a Microsoft windows 1.

I just hope that they improve the office suite of products. I really don't care for the current iteration. Not being able to change the colors from foreground and background or the border is annoying.

[thesameguy]

Maybe OSX was so successful they want a Windows X. ;)

I still think 8 got a bad rap. A bunch of know-nothing journalists passed judgment without actually using it, or considering for one second how most people use computers. For most people, 8 is a great product. Microsoft screwed the pooch by taking away features that power users would legitimately miss, however, resulting in bad press from both sides. All those power users never bothered to sit back and think how much better their lives might be if average people stopped asking them for help, though, so they kind of cut off their nose to spite their face... I find it funny to hear random people whine about how terrible 8 is when I know damned good and well they couldn't use 7 either - clearly they read the articles and jumped on the bandwagon. Oddly, I haven't heard much negativity about the last several iterations of the xbox OS, which, duh, is pretty much 8. I think 8 isn't quite as flawed as everyone has been lead to believe by reactionary idiots. I like 8 in a bunch of environments, but my main desktop (where I do work) is still 7.

That said, I seriously hope Microsoft can beat Apple to the punch unifying devices. I bought a Windows tablet because the last thing I need in my life is another platform. Microsoft really missed the boat by not putting RT on phones, or putting Phone on tablets, or by not providing an x86 platform for running Phone or RT. They confused users, they confounded developers, and they incurred development costs on products more or less everyone made fun of them for. All the things that have made x86 and Windows great since the '80s - broad forward and backward compatibility - went out the window in one generation of product. Microsoft could totally redeem themselves with 10, especially if it can trickle over to gaming platforms. Phone, games, tablet, and computer where all things interact and interoperate the same would explode minds. Making spreadsheets at work on an Xbox X and phone calls in bed on a Surface 10 and playing games on Windows Dix? Sign me up.

[thesameguy]

I just hope that they improve the office suite of products. I really don't care for the current iteration. Not being able to change the colors from foreground and background or the border is annoying.

It's probably annoying for home users, but it's keeping my sanity. It's impossible to run an efficient IT department when 99% of your luser problems are "how do I set my background?" and "how can I make Outlook neon?" Win8+O13=Win for me.

[21Kid]

But, I want my neon Outlook. :( But, no.. .Just being able to see the which app is active by having a blue border, while the ones in the background are gray or faded would be a big help. It's difficult to see what is active and separate them when you have outlook, word, excel all open and overlapping. (Or maybe I should just maximize everything. :() Just as long as I can arrange all of my icons in the shape of a dick on my desktop, I'll be fine. :D

My wife has had 8 for about a year now and I still don't like it. I can't find stuff. Granted I'm not the main user. But, when I'm trying to help her out it's like trying to learn something completely new. :| I'm also not the most computer literate... But, I would think that most people aren't either.

Having one unified platform would be nice. Like how I have across my google products. It's very helpful having my internet bookmarks, apps, contacts, etc... on my browers, tablet, phone.

[thesameguy]

I've been in IT for a long time, and I'm pretty sure you still can't sort by penis.

[21Kid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEdiC-W4L7c

[thesameguy]

THE WEBSITE IS DOWN!

[overpowered]

I got the icon today for free upgrade from Win 7 to Win 10. Not sure I want to do it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/06/02/windows-10-features-removed-windows-7-windows-8/2/

[Random]

Ditto.

"Multitask like a master with the ability to snap up to four things on the screen at once." Huh? :erm:

edit: oh, that must be for the tablet market. I wonder if my Venue has enough horsepowers to run it?

[Yw-slayer]

Gotta do it. Admittedly, I'll probably test it out on computers other than my main work computer first. It should rock hard on my Surface Pro 3 though.

[Blerpa]

I did reserve it, instead. You just buy yourself into the reserve program, to be sure to have upgrade availability to Win 10 within the promotional free upgrade year, not to *have* to upgrade no matter what and right away the 29th of July when Win 10 will be available finally to the public.
I will not upgrade right away, I will comfortly wait when the day one issues will be solved.
Right now, with the latest release to testers (I'm in to, but I haven't had the time to burn the ISO and create a big enough partition to put Win 10 there) there are a lot of drivers' issues.

[21Kid]

I'll definitely get it on my two Win 8.1 machines. The wife and daughters. :p I'll wait and see before I put it on my Win 7 machine.

[Freude am Fahren]

I'm going to be updating my laptop (8.1) right away. I'll hold off on my Win7 desktop.

By the way, hat Forbes article is a bit overkill. Oh no! No more USB floppy drive!. Who the hell is using floppy disks?!

[overpowered]

If I had Win 8, I'd probably go for it. I'm pretty comfortable with 7 though.

[Yw-slayer]

Who the hell is using floppy disks?!

Plus, couldn't you use a free Linux distro to read floppy disks off a USB floppy drive anyway, since they'd all (obviously) be FAT?

[thesameguy]

Definitely. And no native USB floppy support doesn't prevent someone who makes a USB floppy drive from providing their own driver. Clearly, the software exists somewhere! :)

[Rare White Ape]

On the subject of no disk drives, I was asked to help a friend set up a new laptop last month.

"Mick, you know computers. Can you help my wife set up her new laptop?"

Sure. I go over there, switch it on, run them through the initial screens (people who can speak English seem to suddenly lose the ability to read said language when it's presented to them in a series of dialog boxes).

After a while, setting them up with Chrome and 'the Google' she presents me with a DVD-R with Office 2007 scrawled on it in marker pen. "Can you set this up?"

"Of course I can," I say, "if…"

"If what," she asks me, suddenly worried.

"Now here's a question for the new millennium; has it got a disc drive?"

I flip it over. No disc drive. Heh.

She then looks at me like I've stabbed the family dog.

[thesameguy]

(people who can speak English seem to suddenly lose the ability to read said language when it's presented to them in a series of dialog boxes).

Why there have been no research grants to find the root of this problem, I cannot understand. People literally lose the ability to distinguish Yes from No when a computer presents a simple question. "Do you wish to continue?" ZOMG, which do I choose?????

[Kchrpm]

I was on Sony's website looking for something else, and noticed they have suggested people (with my laptop, I presume others as well) not take the upgrade to Windows 10 until they can confirm it will work well. I'm still not sure if I want to take the upgrade, if it will be worth it on a non-touchscreen laptop.

[thesameguy]

I have concerns about lack of a touchscreen too - though I think a touchpad with even primitive multi-touch/gesture support will get the job done ok. And, there is always just going to desktop mode, which totally removes the need for a touchscreen anyway. All those things being true, I'm still on the fence on my older laptop.

[Yw-slayer]

I'm running 8.1 on more computers without touchscreens than with. I don't see what the issue would be with 10.

[thesameguy]

I don't think there is an issue so long as you know what you're doing, but I've found a lot of people get very frustrated by 8 sans touchscreen. Lots of "move over here" and "wiggle the mouse like so" to get things done that nobody has ever done before, and are ultimately poor approximations for "just touch here."

[Blerpa]

I don't think there is an issue so long as you know what you're doing, but I've found a lot of people get very frustrated by 8 sans touchscreen. Lots of "move over here" and "wiggle the mouse like so" to get things done that nobody has ever done before, and are ultimately poor approximations for "just touch here."

I've Windows 8.1 with Pokki free Start program (with options set as "visualize desktop instead of [crappy Win 8.1] Start screen") and... it's basically Windows 7 with a facelift. Same old totally awesome Windows.
Aside from different menu structure in the windows it's totally the same OS as it has been lately.

And I've looked only twice in my life at that goddamn horrid Win 8.x Metro ahem Start screen... so really, I can't see the problem.
If Pokki doesn't rock your boat (I found it pre-installed by Acer - thank you Acer, for once!) there are plenty of free classic start programs which recreate the classic fashioned Windows Start and give options to deactivate that awful Win 8 stuff, really.

[thesameguy]

Man, I remember when people use to put progman.exe in their Win95 registry's Run section to get rid of that awful Start button. There were plenty of free options to recreate that good Windows 3.1 interface for those who didn't want to step backwards to Window 95's native interface. I also remember a tool/reg script for Windows XP that would recreate the My Computer and My Network Places etc. icons on their desktop because they were outraged that Microsoft moved them onto the Start menu.

I would buy into the notion that each new iteration of Windows is more flawed than the last, except nobody puts Control Panel shortcuts on their Win7 desktop and nobody put Program Manager on their XP desktop. People like to complain about change. The previous thing is always better than the next. Always.

[Blerpa]

I've Control Panel shortcuts on my Win 7 machines and my Win 8.1 machine. Always have had. I don't give a damn about change, everything must be the same: to me Windows is like a car with three pedals, a steering wheel, a gear stick, engine and 4 wheels.
Same same same. Fuck I care about Metro crap and new idiotic Win 8.1 windows menus. Guess what? I still install Office 2003 on my machines.

Change is NOT needed.

[overpowered]

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/how-remove-windows-10-nag-messages-3614204/

[SkylineObsession]

I have finally gotten used to Windows 7, and i'm very sceptical about whether Windows 10 would be worth upgrading to or not. I can't really see any benefits over what i have now to be honest, but at the same time i wonder if it will be silly not to upgrade to a free Windows - after all how often do they give it away?

:?

:|

:(

[thesameguy]

The boot time is almost worth the price of admission!

[mk]

I've installed it to couple of low end machines.
Starting from AMD 3k+ single cpu machines with 1G RAM.

Surfing with newest Firefox is fine.
Performance graph is quite full even if left alone but true idle level is unknown.

Only real problem has been unknown network hardware.
And only hickup has been HP dv6 laptop boot but even it is solid and goes on after second try,
probably something with machines drop/park/slap/what HD protection thingy.

[Jacee]

You can find excellent tutorials for Windows 10 here: http://www.tenforums.com/tutorialindex.php

You can ask all questions related to Windows 10 by registering here: http://www.tenforums.com/

( I just happen to know Shawn Brink :up: )

[Yw-slayer]

I think one advantage of Win10 is that you will get the latest version of DirectX12. But that's only relevant if you game on your PC.

[Blerpa]

Thanks Jacee!
Good point YW... I nearly forgot about that.

[mk]

More digging and I've found a non booting Packard Bell with VIA chipset.
It's also solid, no boot is no boot.
Maybe I've just exhausted my installation(DVD-R) privileges.

Also found a CRT.
It made me use boot options(low graphics) and only vsync was odd 64Hz.

Do nothing idle with Pentium 4 was 3% and around 500M RAM.
Downloading OS something was less than a half CPU and 750M RAM, 8M ADSL was limiting for sure.

Used build is 10130 and no extras, if there even is any.
From Cookie's links I think machines, again, are not the true problem.

Seems that many many machines can handle W10.
My prediction is that pre W7 will be getting a discount in a near future.

[Random]

Ditto.

"Multitask like a master with the ability to snap up to four things on the screen at once." Huh? :erm:

edit: oh, that must be for the tablet market. I wonder if my Venue has enough horsepowers to run it?


Well, MS thinks so...got my notification to reserve the upgrade on the Venue.

[thesameguy]

I don't think they discriminate. :)

If it can run 8 it should run 10 regardless. Not much separates them.

[Rare White Ape]

I've got Win 10 installed. Not been a happy process so far.

As soon as it gets to the desktop the laptop waits 1 minute, then reboots.

As annoying as someone saying "Legos"

[Rare White Ape]

I've seen two BSODs as well!

One had a big frowny face on it ):

[Rare White Ape]

OK, it's all up and running. All hunky-dory.

There's not much different to 8.1 so far, except the chime bar is gone, the metro screen is gone, the settings menus don't take up all of your screen, the flipping Start menu is back and is easy to use and holy flipping shit does it look great too?

Worth it so far.

[Rare White Ape]

It's got a nifty little Task View button next to the search bar. Click it and it opens thumbnails of all of your active programs. I think OSX does the same.

In task view, you can open a second desktop. From there you can drag apps to other desktops, or even open the same app (like a browser) on two desktops and have them run separately.

I haven't had a go with Cortana yet because it's not available in my region, but I'll find a way to fix that.

[Kchrpm]

I've seen a shot of the notifications screen looking all cool and full of stuff. Used it yet?

[Yw-slayer]

I've jumped the queue by installing it on my 2600K, my X301, and my SP3.

2600K: Screen resolution messed up, can only do weird 2560x1440 compressed(?) or just 1024x768. Probably a graphics driver issue. Will try and fix it sometime.

X301: Seems to hang every 4-5 hours but otherwise OK.

SP3: Seems OK so far, and it'd better be since I'm taking it on a trip starting tomorrow...

[Jason]

I installed it last night in hopes of using the Xbox streaming... Of course it doesn't see my Xbox. Entered the IP manually too, and nothing.

No strong theories as to why.... Could be because my Xbox isn't set as my home console, since I 'share' games with a friend. Or maybe it's because Windows is pirated, though everything says its activated and all.

Hm...

The rest of the OS seems nice... Basically a redesigned Windows 7. My experiences with Windows 8 were short because of how fucked up it is :P

[Rare White Ape]

I've seen a shot of the notifications screen looking all cool and full of stuff. Used it yet?

Nah, but I might one day. It does look slick, though.

[Yw-slayer]

A manual NVIDIA driver install didn't work, but I fixed the 2600K problem by opening Device Manager and asking it to find the best driver for the device.

[Blerpa]

Ok, now this is weird. It's like a month the W10 reservation icon sits in my notification area (the one by the clock), now I get back home, I update my Nvidia Geforce drivers, then check for Windows Updates, and it finds an optional one: I do install that one. Reboot and... the W10 reservation icon is gone. I rebooted the system again: no joy. WTF??? I've no idea what happened. :(

I even got some 58GB free on C: to be sure to have plenty to update the system.
It's an Acer desktop with legit Win 8.1. Damn, I was looking forward to updating it soon.

[thesameguy]

It gets rolled out in waves, not everyone at once. There isn't enough bandwidth to support that.

The icon is gone because you can no longer reserve it.

[Blerpa]

Yep, I *already* reserved.
But it went anyway.
I know about all the staggered rollouts and so on, but I believed the icon would stay there till it would pop up something like "Ok, your Win 10 copy is ready. Do you want to download it now?".

I'm using the Download Tool from the Microsoft site to download the OS. Let's hope all goes well.

[thesameguy]

It downloads in the background and applies like an update... you don't need the icon anymore. :)

[Jason]

Figured out my problems :up:

I'm liking Windows 10 so far... very clean and well put together. Performance is there as well. Kudos to MS

[Freude am Fahren]

updated my notebook. Came up with a Samsung Patch dialogue saying it needed to update to support W10. Problem was the buttons were in Korean :lol: Then it froze when I guessed on which one was YES :(

[Rare White Ape]

I'm using the Download Tool from the Microsoft site to download the OS. Let's hope all goes well.

That's what I did.

Jumped the queue like a boss of bosses.

[OldTimer]

I'm surprised hat so many people dis Win 8. I have been using Win 8 for the past couple of years and had no problems. I have a few clients left that I support on old legacy database programs and it hasn't caused me much heartache at all.
Seriously thinking about the upgrade but I would like to be certain all my hardware is supported first. I have a seen a few recommendations to upgrade gaming PCs to use the new Directx12. Apparently there are some good performance pickups to be had.

[Yw-slayer]

I found 8 to be ok too.

[thesameguy]

Yep, zero problems. Use it daily. People just like to complain about change.

[Kchrpm]

I had very limited use with Windows 8, my biggest problem with it was the attempt to graft on the tablet interface to "simplify" things and how it actually made things more complicated by making everything bigger and therefore more spread out. Had I spent more time (and it been my personal computer), I assume I could have done some amount of customization to it, but having a Start menu that actually just took over the whole screen and brought up 20 widgets and huge icons is not, to me, a better solution to "where do I find stuff I don't want on my desktop."

[thesameguy]

I had a, shall we say, protracted conversation with my dad about this. He's a manual type of guy - I don't know whether he feels like it's lazy to not try or he doesn't trust anything he can't see, but the answer to Metro is just "start typing." Don't dig around in Metro to find Word, just type Word and let Metro figure out where the icon is. I think that's really the brilliance of the design - the tiles make it easy to use on a tablet and the search makes it easy to use on a desktop. I like PC Metro for the same reason I like Windows Phone Metro - I can catch a headline or the weather just at a glance - live tiles are just a great concept. Functionally I think the breakdown for Metro is no wallpaper (makes people IRATE), and it obfuscates multi-window working. On a PC, the non-floating windows are a PITA. Obviously you have the desktop still, but it's an extra step to get there. For me, it's boot, type des, hit enter, and voila, I'm in Windows 7 again. :) Not worth a hissy fit. ;)

[Kchrpm]

Ha, yeah, my normal use case would be bad for Windows 8, then. My computer desktop typically has zero icons on it, just the background image, and the apps I use often on the taskbar. I don't care about generic headlines, and I let notifications deal with personal info. I don't mind using text search to find an app I barely use, but I don't want it for every day use.

And I do a lot of multi-window use, especially now with a 1920x1080 screen. I'm actually getting kind of frustrated by the fact that Chrome OS doesn't seem to want to show more than one window on top of a full-screen window. It switches between visible windows on top of another, instead of just resorting them in the order you select them.

[thesameguy]

I don't mind using text search to find an app I barely use, but I don't want it for every day use.

Okay, dad. :P

But, seriously, I barely even touch the mouse when using any Windows. 7 was a damned revelation for me since the second I have Windows, it's CTRL+ALT+DEL, password, enter, a desktop, Windows Key with left left thumb, type a fragment of an app name, and hit enter. I hate looking for icons, I hate managing icons! It probably stems from the fact that I use numerous computers - many of which aren't mine - and I don't want to know what weird places people have stashed or inadvertently dragged things. Start Menu search is the bees knees! CTRL+ALT-DEL -> PASSWORD -> ENTER -> WINDOWS KEY -> INT -> ENTER -> CTRL+L -> GTX -> ENTER gets me where I need to be FAST. ;)


And I do a lot of multi-window use, especially now with a 1920x1080 screen. I'm actually getting kind of frustrated by the fact that Chrome OS doesn't seem to want to show more than one window on top of a full-screen window. It switches between visible windows on top of another, instead of just resorting them in the order you select them.

I have oddly not yet run 8 on a desktop, but I wonder if Metro on one screen and desktop on the other might not be a good environment. Honestly, probably not, but it's an intriguing notion to me. Unfortunately, I just haven't felt adequately motivated to try... I didn't even register for 10 on my desktop. Both laptops will have it, though - I'll give it a go on a "legacy" laptop and on the convertible/touchscreen. See how that does, maybe wrap 10 into a future desktop upgrade.

[Kchrpm]

But, seriously, I barely even touch the mouse when using any Windows. 7 was a damned revelation for me since the second I have Windows, it's CTRL+ALT+DEL, password, enter, a desktop, Windows Key with left left thumb, type a fragment of an app name, and hit enter. I hate looking for icons, I hate managing icons! It probably stems from the fact that I use numerous computers - many of which aren't mine - and I don't want to know what weird places people have stashed or inadvertently dragged things.
A-ha! Now I see where we diverge :)

I, presumably like most people, am used to using only my computers, so I set them up and use them how I want. Designing a computer so the IT admins are most comfortable using everyone's, vs the average user being most comfortable using their own, is not going to result in a positive impression from the masses.


I have oddly not yet run 8 on a desktop, but I wonder if Metro on one screen and desktop on the other might not be a good environment.
I can see the appeal to that if your normal setup is 2 or more screens. I think I'd still rather have something simple and more notification like than live tiles taking up the whole screen, though. If I really wanted to read headlines, I'd pull up my RSS reader. If I don't want to read them, why are they taking up such a huge chunk of screen? I like mah desktop images, dammit!

[thesameguy]

I remember when I had a desktop image in like '92. That was pretty cool. :P

[thesameguy]

My favorite thing about the Windows 10 rollout is the outrage that they make you pay for Solitaire. People threw fits when Microsoft gave away the web browser, the file explorer, the antivirus, and all sorts of other bundled features as being anti-competitive. Now that they've stripped down the OS and it basically comes with nothing, people are upset Microsoft doesn't bundle. It's even more insane in the face of Windows 10 essentially being entirely free - it comes on your new computer and they'll retrofit your old. "You guys did exactly what we wanted by unbundling everything and lowering the cost, but now we want something different so you're evil!"

Morons.

[Random]

:erm: There's a free Solitaire suite (four different kinds of Solitaire!) in the Windows store right now.

[thesameguy]

Exactly. And dozens of choices that may be superior to MS's historic offering for a couple bucks. There is literally no point for the upset. It is 100% bellyaching for no good reason. For the price you're not paying for Windows, you could buy probably every reasonable variation of Solitaire ever written.

[Kchrpm]

The Solitaire in Windows 10 is free, it just has video ads. The other free games in the store may be the same way, I don't know.

There were other reasons people complained about Microsoft including all software on computers (ignoring standards, preventing other companies from writing software that was compatible, etc), they had a massive market lead and were doing some monopolistic things and it affected businesses as much as it did consumers.

But all that being said, I still just want someone to tell me about their experiences with the notification thing. The other stuff is just same ol same ol enthusiasts/admins vs users stuff.

[Rare White Ape]

I still just want someone to tell me about their experiences with the notification thing.

OK fine. Every time I click on it, it says "No new notifications"

And it looks like this:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/359/19996652670_20d110dac4_o.png

[KillerB]

At this point, I think MS has the superior desktop and tablet OS. You can do actual work on a Surface, and there's no iOS/OSX divide. But the Windows phones are still mostly mediocre. C'mon, Microsoft, get us a first class device so I can say sayonara to Apple. You've got until November, when I'm up for a new phone.

[Kchrpm]

Thanks, RWA. That looks like it could be sweet, with quick simple access to all those settings/features.

[Rare White Ape]

Well, I don't know really.

I only clicked it because you asked for it, and those settings are things that you can find in control panel anyway, just in a different GUI.

I guess if I had my emails set up in Outlook (I don't) and if I used programs that took a while to render graphics like Photoshop did in the 90s (I don't... currently) and if I used a bunch of other things that wanted to tell me a bunch of stuff via the notifications panel, then I'd have a need for it.

But right now it's use is confined to conneting to my VPN, but that's also found via the network connections button which has always been there in previous OSes and I'm used to doing it the old way and it only takes one more click.

It's a nice feature, for me it will go unused unless I'm forced to use it.

[Kchrpm]

Having single button toggles on a pop-up notification is much more useful than only having them in a Control Panel, to me. I am picturing the notifications area ending up getting used like it would on a mobile OS, or the way Chrome does desktop notifications but if it's not easy for any app to plug into and to customize what shows up, that would suck. I guess I'll just have to read up more on it, see what they plan on doing with it..

[Kchrpm]

http://www.howtogeek.com/223503/how-to-use-and-configure-the-new-notification-center-in-windows-10/

http://www.cnet.com/how-to/exploring-the-notifications-center-in-windows-10/

Ok, so you can control which of those toggles show up, and the notifications sync with your Windows Phone. If they can get that working with Android phones, like Pushbullet does in Chrome, that will be fantastic. Need to get Google Now plugged into there as well.

[stephenb]

Does anyone know where all the user account/parental control settings have gone? Just upgraded my laptop from Win 7. Under that install I had a restricted account which was good for surfing he internet and nothing else. I can't find the options which will allow me to specify what programs an account is allowed to run.

[Rare White Ape]

I would say it's under Control Panel > User Accounts or under Settings > Accounts.

To get to Control Panel, right-click the Windows/Start button.

To get to Settings, click the Windows button and you'll find it just above the power button... Oooooooorrrrrrrr (Keef watch this) click the notifications button, which is next to the volume button, and you'll find it there!

[Alan P]

Still don't have the option to download but don't really mind. Will wait a while I think, let some kinks be ironed out.

[stephenb]

Thanks RWA but I've gone through all of that. What I can't find are the options to restrict which programmes/apps a given account can run or not as the case may be.

Edit: Just reading another forum it sounds as though all the inbuilt parental controls have been removed.

[Jason]

Whatever update they did to the Xbox App makes it work even better... less slowdown, instead the quality drops for a second, which is definitely preferable.

[thesameguy]

I let 10 install on my cheapo 2 in 1 while doing man shit outside. No idea how long it took, but it took zero involvement from me so I'm not mad at it. It installed, it's working. So far, so good. Feels *really* weird using a start menu on this machine, though. :lol:

[Blerpa]

It finally installed... 50 minutes of No Signal on the monitor from my GTX 650Ti Boost and then suddenly it went!
Liking it so far, but I've to understand how to use Cortana (Does not work well with the mic in my webcam) and the Notification Center.

[Random]

Waiting...*twiddle*

[stephenb]

What for? https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

[Random]

My turn. :p Aren't you Brits supposed to be the patient queueueueueing types? :D

[Jason]

For the folks concerned about privacy.

http://lifehacker.com/what-windows-10s-privacy-nightmare-settings-actually-1722267229

[Random]

Tablet reports that it is downloading the update. :up:

[Random]

Desktop updated. :up:

[thesameguy]

For the folks concerned about privacy.

http://lifehacker.com/what-windows-10s-privacy-nightmare-settings-actually-1722267229

My moderately paranoid father sent me an article about how scary all these settings were and how Microsoft went to great lengths to bury them where nobody could ever find them... totally overlooking the fact that when 10 first boots up it gives you the opportunity to change all of them right up front.

I really cannot stand fearmongering. It's even worse when it's based on erroneous information.

[Random]

Deleting the garbage...tralalala.

Gotta go get a microSD for the Venue--not enough "disk" space.

[thesameguy]

Good to know... that one is on my to do list!

[Random]

You might be ok, since you run a pretty stripped down system. You need 5G free space on the system drive or 13G on an external drive (which I assume the microSD card counts as).

[thesameguy]

Ah, that should be ok. If not I guess I have an OTG adapter I could pair with a big fat flash drive. :up:

[mk]

I think I'll wait.

Next spring feels good.

[Yw-slayer]

Worked well on my main work laptop (LIVING ON THE EDGE even though I waited for it to be OKed by MS). Even though the screen and keyboard are crapped out (not very long, but a rather weird, story) it pulled up my external monitors without a hitch after all the usual stuff and Windows login.

[Alan P]

Got offered the update but seeing as I really want to use my PC to play games in what little free time I have I put it off for now. Should it go wrong (and I know it's unlikely) I don't really want to spend hours fucking about with it when all I want to do is dominate on BF4 or fly around the known universe on Elite Dangerous.

[Yw-slayer]

I think it'll be fine. It'll take maybe 45 minutes max. Save it for the weekend?

[OldTimer]

Updated my games PC 48 hours ago and happy so far with the results. Certainly seems to be an improvement in the graphics although I am not clever enough to be more definitive. After the update I had lost around 9GB of the available space on my SSD so pretty pleased with that as well. It also runs one of my old legacy apps which I was testing in 8.1 so all looking good so far. Cheers

[overpowered]

Windows 10 upgrade bug makes some PCs unusable

http://www.siliconbeat.com/2015/08/04/windows-10-upgrade-bug-makes-some-pcs-unusable/?source=facebook

[Yw-slayer]

I'm sure things like this happen, and will continue to happen.

[Rare White Ape]

25 people reported the issue.

OH MY GOSH

It's as serious as iPhone 6's bendgate from last year.

[21Kid]

updated my daughter's desktop yesterday. Didn't have much time to mess around with it.

[thesameguy]

25 people reported the issue.

OH MY GOSH

It's as serious as iPhone 6's bendgate from last year.

:lol: I can't decide which is more insane, that 25 people is enough to warrant print space, or whether the managing editor of a tech blog took a computer to a Microsoft Store.

[Rare White Ape]

I think people are out there looking for issues to report on. Sort of a confirmation bias news cycle, if you will. If it bleeds it leads, and with Windows 10, if it makes a few computers (out of millions) buggy then it's front-page-of-tech-blog news.

I've seen people on other forums try W10, but then for one of them it made their computer crash once after 40 minutes so they reverted back to 8.1 "because 10 is fucked." I suggested that a fix for their specific problem is but a Google search away, but no. Someone tried to lead me on to an argument that Google is impossible to access without a computer, a response which he probably typed from his smart phone.

I guess creativity in problem solving suddenly disappears when one is faced with a "fucked" OS and a lack of patience.

For others it "steals their data" according to the EULA, which is probably no more sinister than the same functions of previous OSes which are designed for bug reporting. So they get all tin-foil-hatty and complain that they can't hide their private lives from MS. So they stick with 8.1, which they hate, which also tracks their usage, and complain from its safe haven.

[thesameguy]

I don't know if you're aware, but everything old is better than everything new - especially when it comes to operating systems.

Still very happy with 10, although I did have to revert my main laptop back to 7 as our ancient VPN client is not compatible with 10 and I cannot l live without it. I will scrape together the budget to upgrade the host soon, unless YW somehow manages to knock out all my 3tb drives and I'm forced to buy new ones.

[Freude am Fahren]

I have 10 on my laptop now, only used it briefly. May have to use it more now, but first glance, it's definitely and improvement over 8.1. Now I have Win7 running on my desktop gaming/media machine, and have it all setup the way I like it. Debating on whether or not to switch. Either way I'll give it time for various drivers and programs to catch up and work out bugs.

[Blerpa]

RWA: ROFL.
And yes, goddamn people... they go look for help on Facebook, on whatsapp, on Hangouts chats... but goddamn let them forbid themselves to google up some solution to the problem.

If they complain about Win 10 stealing their data and they do use an iPhone or an Android phone I feel there should be a law to automatically kick these people in the nuts everytime they bring up the matter.
But we do all know people are demented, as per the explanation TSG gave us: people look at me weird when I say that Win XP is shit, Vista slighty better, Win 7 decent, Win 8.x more put together albeit with a stupid UI (the offence they take at this is incredible!) and Win 10 is the best of the crop so far. I must look like an heretic rambler! :blahblah: :finger:

[mk]

I don't know if you're aware, but everything old is better than everything new - especially when it comes to operating systems.
And GOP indeed.

[Alan P]

I keep being offered the update every time I start the PC up. I have no interest in upgrading right now so I really with it would bugger off.

[thesameguy]

There are some hoops you can jump through to cause it to abort the upgrade, but I don't remember what they are. It's easy enough to Google. But, the prompts will not go away by themselves.

[Random]

Upgrading the Venue has not gone well. :(

[Yw-slayer]

Why?

In other news, I think the upgrade corrupted some part of Google Apps Sync and Outlook. But it's OK, reinstalling now to resolve the problem (and my personal account syncing was being a bit funny anyway).

[Random]

It's stuck in an unrecoverable boot loop. I'm going to have to d/l Win10 onto an external drive and install it from there, I think.

[thesameguy]

That sucks. I haven't had a chance to focus on that, but I will do it this weekend and see how it goes.

[Random]

It took a bunch of tried to even get a clean download. Make sure you 1) have a full battery, and 2) disable sleeping.

I would not use a USB2.0 key as the external drive, either. :|

[thesameguy]

ROFL & NOTED! :)

[Blerpa]

Russ, I got the infinite boot loop on my desktop like 30 minutes ago. Do you know how I solved? I restarted for the nth time (after 30 minutes of progressive cursing) with the ethernet cable ripped off the PC.
So I basically sent Win 10 in offline start and... it started like a charm.
Fuck you, Microsoft, what the hell are you doing with your stupid "booting into windows along with Microsoft Account online" crap??? Goddamn.

[thesameguy]

Being awesome is the answer to your question. Unified login makes using cloud apps much more convenient.

[Blerpa]

Less convenient when your PC is stuck in a booting loop.

[thesameguy]

I think it's fair to say everything is less convenient when it's not working right. :)

[Random]

In my manual reading tonight, I'll try to figure out if I can disable the WiFi during boot.

[Rare White Ape]

It'll be in BIOS somewhere.

If not, you can fix it cheaply and easily with a hammer and a screwdriver*

*This option may result in holes

[thesameguy]

I imagine you can do that in the BIOS, right? Turn it off, then hold down the Volume Down button as you power it on.

[Random]

Tunring WAN off didn't change anything.

Removing the USB got me a prompt to reinsert it, so that's something.

I think I need to install from a drive, unless someone knows a way to recover based solely on access to the BIOS screen.

[Random]

Interestingly, MS says you can install Win10 from a USB key and it only needs 4G of space on teh key. What was the upgrade process doing that needed 13G?!

[thesameguy]

Probably the source, some space for decompression, and some space for temp/backup files. It's not uncommon to see usage balloon during an install and then shrink back down when it's done. Installing from external media will eliminate some destination space needs, but surely not reduce 13g to 0g.

[The359]

So far Windows 10 has been OK, had a few stupid issues that cropped up or haven't been resolved:

* My Seagate FreeAgent 1.5TB external drive is recognized by Windows, but my Seagate Manager software doesn't recognize that the drive exists, meaning I can't back anything up the normal way thus far. My thinking may be that since system images of Windows 7 exist on this drive, this might be the dilemma.
* Installed an update (which Windows had magically set to reboot automatically on despite me having it set only to notify on Windows 7) to find that my sound no longer worked. Took me an hour to figure out that I literally had to disable my soundcard and turn it back on for it to work.
* Today, 90% of my Apps stopped working. They tell me they can't open and to go to the App Store. Open App Store, window disappears immediately. Cannot find a solution.

[thesameguy]

WRT to #1, I'd suspect that the method the software uses to find the drive is not supported in the same way under 10. Enough changed in the storage subsystem that seems pretty likely.

The other two, no idea. :)

[OldTimer]

So, touch wood, everything on the upgraded games PC continues to work okay. I just have one annoying issue where the Driver Tuner keeps wanting to update the Logitech drivers (for the G27) even though it is up to date. I let it update a few times hoping it would go away but so far no luck. Every time I turn on the PC I get nagged to update the Logitech drivers. A bit annoyed as I paid the extra for the driver tuner and now feel cheated, sigh ... MS got me again!

[Rare White Ape]

I can't open the Windows App Store either. Or the Xbox app. Or the MS account sign-in app. Exact same symptom: window opens for half a second then goes away.

Do you want to see how much I care about it?

[thesameguy]

Eh? Driver Tuner is not Microsoft Software... it's adware from Lionsea. The nags are not from Windows, they're from bum software.

[Random]

Well, I can get into the BIOS and the boot loader, but not get the damn thing to do a hard reset, like the Internetz say I should be able to. Arg.

edit: next problem, don't have a fucking product key. kasljdhfl;skdfj;saldjfa;slfdkajsdf

tsg: wanna buy my brick so I can go get a Nexus tablet? Fuck. :(

[thesameguy]

You shouldn't need a product key - it should pull that from the BIOS. I have a page bookmarked at work from MS about exactly these upgrade scenarios. You may be able to find it with a Google search, but I don't remember exactly what I was looking for when I found it.

If you run into a roadblock, I do have a Dell Windows 8.1 on a USB flash drive that should reinstall on the Venue. I think I could also generate a recovery image right off my Venue since it's still 8.

[Random]

The media creation tool won't run on my desktop. I get a blank window with an [OK] box. What in the actual fuck.

If my desk didn't weigh about 500 lbs I would have flipped it over about half an hour ago.

[Random]

Well, after removing the back cover to see if I had a Windows key inside, now the touch screen doesn't work, so it's all moot.

FML.

[thesameguy]

Probably one of those annoying flippy crimpy cables got moved. Done that on a bunch of iPhones. A time consuming but easy fix.

Unlike earlier versions, Windows 8 (and later) does not have CD keys for OEM copies. There is a security certificate in the BIOS which activates Windows. They did it to cut down on the illegal resale of COA certs. That's why there has to be a way for 10 to authenticate off the BIOS alone, because there literally is no key on OE OS Win8++ devices.

[Random]

Aaaaaaand the screen cracked when I tried to get the case back off to fix the cable. :(

Oh well, more waste for the landfill.

[thesameguy]

25 ebay dollars? :(

[OldTimer]

Eh? Driver Tuner is not Microsoft Software... it's adware from Lionsea. The nags are not from Windows, they're from bum software.

Ugh, should have known. How did it get to be part of the W10 upgrade then?? Oh well, I need to uninstall it then. Ta tsg for the heads up.

[Kchrpm]

Aaaaaaand the screen cracked when I tried to get the case back off to fix the cable. :(

Oh well, more waste for the landfill.

Hey. Russ. Be you. Not me.

[Jacee]

I'm not at all interested in "endearing or rushing" into Windows 10 at this point. I'm thinking about waiting for a couple more years. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/jcee/smiley_bored.gif

[thesameguy]

Ugh, should have known. How did it get to be part of the W10 upgrade then?? Oh well, I need to uninstall it then. Ta tsg for the heads up.

It didn't. You clicked on something somewhere else, or it installed with some other program when you weren't looking. Microsoft is definitely not distributing Lionsea's crap products. :)

[thesameguy]

25 ebay dollars? :(


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BN8wS8J8fs

Doesn't look too bad. Easier than an iPhone 4 screen replacement, which is like hell on earth.

[Random]

If you want to fool around with mine, you're welcome to it.

[GreatScawt]

So I still haven't had the chance to upgrade on either of my computers. I really wanna throw it on the new one... hmph.

[Yw-slayer]

DO IT.

[GreatScawt]

Cool, well my dad got me a utility to force-download Win10. Pretty cool so far.

[Freude am Fahren]

http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/407894,microsoft-can-disable-your-pirated-games-and-illegal-hardware.aspx

Windows 10 can hunt out and disable pirated software and illegal hardware?

[Jason]

Oh boy :lol:

[Yw-slayer]

They're just reserving the right to do it. Whether and how they will do it is another matter entirely.

[thesameguy]

I am too lazy to look, but I am virtually positive this ambition goes back to Windows XP. I think one of the "Genuine Advantage" tools also reserved the right to do this. I think this revision probably doesn't introduce a new right, but rather calls out new targets (games and hardware). There was a big outcry that GA was going to kill pirated versions of Office way back when, but it never happened. Maybe it will this time, who knows? Regardless, the idea that Corporate America might reserve the right to enforce the rights of Corporate America's IP probably shouldn't come as a surprise. People should be well over the idea that anything on their computer is theirs. Well, their Microsoft or Apple PC. Linux users don't give two shits about Corporate America! You've got to pay to play, so to speak.

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah nah.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3h5wwg/windows_10_disabling_pirated_software_not_so_fast/

The fine print is both alarming and confounding to some people.

[thesameguy]

Heh. People suck at reading comprehension.

[OldTimer]

It didn't. You clicked on something somewhere else, or it installed with some other program when you weren't looking. Microsoft is definitely not distributing Lionsea's crap products. :)

Good news tsg ... I received a full refund from Lionsea. Yep, I did click on something which was Lionsea's offer and it stated that they were MS Partners (which they may or may not be). In any case it all started after I checked the driver for my Asus monitor using the display properties from device manager. Lionsea appeared after that pretty much as if it was a logical follow on from the MS driver check. I'll look at how it works when I upgrade my laptop and try and get some screen shots. All in all it seems pretty shonky to me.

[thesameguy]

Everyone wants your money, that's a fact!

[Random]

tsg will be happy know that the built-in DNLA server seems to have disappeared. I'll look around and see if there's a switch. My 3rd party solution is working fine (Asset UPnP), so I'm not fussed.

[thesameguy]

DOWN WITH DLNA!

You know, I spent time & money converting my WHS box to Windows7 so I could stream more easily to the Xbox and then never did it. I wonder how 10 interacts with the Xbox in this capacity.... but not enough to expend any energy finding out. :lol:

[Random]

Given that the Windows games are all XBox branded, I would be surprised if they didn't play nicely together.

[Yw-slayer]

Our Google apps vendor helped me (after threatening to move to Microsoft) the Google Apps Sync with Microsoft Outlook problem I was having. Joy.

[SportWagon]

My comment was more mobile-specific.

Actually deleting posts seems to cause problems on the board, so this is a virtual delete.

[Freude am Fahren]

First time really using my W10 notebook for something meaningful, battery life seems pretty good. I was video calling (4-way) for my fantasy draft, while doing a lot of surfing for last minute researching. About an hour of it only cost me about 13% of the battery. :up:

[LHutton]

Just got an option to upgrade to Windows 10 for real. Is it legit? Is it worth upgrading from Windows 7?

[Rare White Ape]

No, avoid at all costs. It basically turns your computer into a Mac.

[thesameguy]

Too bad it doesn't turn your Mac into a computer. That would be worth something.

[Alan P]

So far, on a desktop and laptop upgrading to W10 from W7 has been a disaster on both machines and resulted in a complete format and reinstall of Windows 7.

[Yw-slayer]

I see pub bore felt the need to create his own thread in aa desperate cry for attention despite this thread being the obvious place to ask a stupid question.

[Rare White Ape]

He reminds me of Ken M, but not as smart.

[LHutton]

Too bad it doesn't turn your Mac into a computer. That would be worth something.
:lol:

[LHutton]

I've noticed that Dell are charging £30 more for Windows 8.1 over Windows 10. 10 must be really dire.

http://www.dell.com/uk/p/alienware-x51-r3/pd?ref=PD_OC

[thesameguy]

That has nothing to do with it. Microsoft charges Dell more for the old OS than the new one. They did the same thing with Win7 and Win8. Why would they not offering a cost-upgrade for those foolish enough to choose it?

[Cam]

Dare I click?
1689

[thesameguy]

I dunno... what's on the line?

[Cam]

I dunno... future functionality of my computer?

[thesameguy]

It's probably safe to say the computer will work - I think more on the line would be programs or peripheral hardware you have that don't run right under Win10. I would make a list of that stuff and see if it'll all be ok or not.

[Cam]

The only thing I would be really concerned about is my Cintiq. It's very important that it continues to work properly, so I guess I won't risk it.

[thesameguy]

It seems like Win10 and the Cintiq get along, unless you have a Companion 2, in which case there is a caveat:

http://community.wacom.com/inspiration/blog/2015/august/wacom-and-windows-10

Do you have a name-brand, prebuilt system, or is it home-built?

[Cam]

Custom, but I didn't build it.

[thesameguy]

Ah, that complicates things a bit... the recovery process if 10 doesn't work is potentially more problematic. Still, maybe worth a shot. You can download a trial of Acronis or Macrium Reflect, image your existing hard drive, upgrade to Windows 10 and see how it goes. If it sucks, buy the full version of the product you used to make the image and then put back the original Win7 OS. That way there's no risk, just a $50 expense if you don't like it. And, you net quality backup software in the process. ;)

[Rare White Ape]

Or get a spare HDD which you're bound to have laying around and install it on that.

[thesameguy]

Unfortunately that does not work. Win 10 will only install over an existing, activated copy of Vista, 7, or 8.

[Rare White Ape]

Yeah, but the logical process is to have Win 7 (or whatever Cam has) running on it with full drivers, then go through the upgrade process like you would if it was your normal HDD.

[Freude am Fahren]

Find another PC with 10 on it (or with an upgrade available) and test it out?

[Cam]

I'll pass for now.

[Kchrpm]

http://www.neowin.net/news/like-seeing-promoted-apps-in-the-start-menu-youll-love-the-windows-10-anniversary-update


Possibly the most despised feature of Windows 10 is advertisements. They show up in your apps list, lock screen, and even the Start Menu. Sadly, Microsoft plans to double the amount of Promoted Apps that you'll find hiding in the Start Menu when the Windows 10 Anniversary Update is released this summer.

More specifically, the number of Suggested Apps will increase from five to 10. At the same time, the number of "static" apps (stock apps that are pinned to the Start Menu by default) will decrease from 17 to 12.

-------------
Update: To be more clear, based on the slides, this should only apply to fresh installs of the Windows 10 Anniversary Update. We have reached out to Microsoft to confirm this but at this time, haven't received a response.

:|

[thesameguy]

That is an insane thing to even write an article on it.

1. Install Windows
2. Delete 10 items off Start Menu

It's less than a minute of work. Who cares?

If I were Microsoft, I would write a response that says something like, "Look you fuckers, you sue us when we bundle stuff, you complain when we remove stuff, and you complain when we show you how to get stuff back. WHAT DO YOU WANT?"

[Blerpa]

That is an insane thing to even write an article on it.

1. Install Windows
2. Delete 10 items off Start Menu

It's less than a minute of work. Who cares?

If I were Microsoft, I would write a response that says something like, "Look you fuckers, you sue us when we bundle stuff, you complain when we remove stuff, and you complain when we show you how to get stuff back. WHAT DO YOU WANT?"

THIS.

[Tom Servo]

Given the GTX 1080 thread, which is really intriguing, and the fact that Windows 7 won't do DX12, anybody have any horror stories of Windows 10? I haven't upgraded because I snuck in on a volume license, but I've been considering doing the update for a while now, but want to know what I'm getting myself into.

FWIW, specs are reasonably decent, core i7-2600 @ 3.4, 16 gigs of RAM, main drive is a Samsung Evo 850 SSD, and currently have a GTX 970. I don't anticipate hardware performance being an issue with Windows 10.

[Random]

My bargain build hasn't had any issues. i3, 6G RAM, 128G SSD for a system drive, on-board graphics.

Edit: I upgraded from 7 to 10.

[Tom Servo]

Huh, wonder if I can upgrade from my volume license 7. I know it won't give me a free upgrade, but not sure if a paid upgrade is an option or if I have to reinstall...

[Jason]

I've yet to see any system level ads O.o

Or are we saying that included apps are now ads? I'm a bit confused.

[Kchrpm]

The article is suggesting that icons for apps that look like they are pre-installed, but are actually icons that lead you to install the app, are ads.

[Jason]

Ah, I feel like this isn't much different than past Windows installs, imo. MS has always had deals like that, as far as I can remember.

Hell, I think those sorts of things even end up on Mac OSes from time to time.

[Blerpa]

I've been on Windows 10 since I got my new desktop. No issues at all, I've to say, smooth as butter. I haven't seen any ad, but I rarely use the Start button and I never use the old-windows-8.x-like Start Home Screen.

[21Kid]

Yeah, I've seen some "Install Skype" or "Minecraft" icons that are suggestions. I just delete them. :shrug:
The one thing I don't like about Win10 is how minimal the options menus are. Like the display setting screen has like 2 options. You can go to the advanced settings, which is like the previous ones. Almost anything that I really want to adjust is in an advanced menu. The default adjustments are not helpful. Other than that, I really like it. I like the notifications, the new start menu, the tiles. I think it's a good improvement overall.

[thesameguy]

I have been on 10 since before Day 1, and two weeks ago replaced my Windows 7 laptop with a Windows 10 machine (XPS 13 w/ QHD), leaving me with the server and my main desktop running 7. Probably won't change the server til the next hardware refresh, but my desktop is definitely next on the chopping block. I am just deciding whether to use this existing machine or drink my own Kool Aid and buy an XPS 8900 from the Dell outlet. (Strongly leaning towards the 8900 ATM). I have had a few issues with Windows 10 over the last year, but most have been fixed. The only issue that continues to plague me is a screwed up start menu/task bar/Cortana on the Venue Pro 11. It affects a number of VP10 and 11 users, so I suspect it's a Dell driver issue (maybe like the touchscreen driver) and not 10.

I really like the OS in general - whether you use it in legacy 7 mode or the tablet mode (which I do on the VP11, and the girl does on her Inspiron 13 2in1) it works really well. Fast, responsive, and zero unexpected compatibility issues. It runs superbly on light hardware. This weekend I am going to upgrade two old C2D laptops to 10 and see how they do. I've also begun the process of getting my office ready for it. It's good stuff.

I don't know whether you can upgrade a volume license, but I suspect so. You can download the ISO directly from Microsoft (Pro for Pro or Ultimate, Home for everything else) and try. It'll ask you the Upgrade? question before it asks for a key, so you can abort once you know it works - or just continue on and then buy a key off Amazon. :) I'd HIGHLY recommend imaging your machine with Ghost or Acronis or Macrium or whatever before doing the upgrade just so you have an out. The uninstall has proven unreliable IME... I have had to recover a few machines for people who clicked GO by accident and couldn't handle the change. :smh:

[George]

I am just deciding whether to use this existing machine or drink my own Kool Aid and buy an XPS 8900 from the Dell outlet. (Strongly leaning towards the 8900 ATM).

I imagine TSG is aware of this already, but for anyone else (and me, if I could just bring myself to spend the [relatively little] money), Dell has some kickass coupons at delloutlet.com. I've been watching the outlet for a while now but finally clicked on the coupons link(s). Duh!

Right now they're offering 35% off any XPS system and another coupon for 35% off any refurbished monitor. Both are on my shopping list. I imagine one must make two separate purchases to use two coupons, but I'm running out of excuses not to buy a more modern computer. Linkage: http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/22/campaigns/dell-coupons-codes-us-outlet

Stupid question that only needs a reply if negative: Dell computers come with an official copy of whatever OS (Win 8, Win 10 Home, Win 10 Pro, etc.) is factory installed on a CD, should the need arise for future re-installation, right?

I'm thinking they must, because they always have, but then again I'm often surprised with how things change without my knowledge (how dare they!) and I could imagine that one might have to download the OS from "the cloud" or some other newfangled nonsense.

[George]

More stuff everyone knows except me: I watched the Dell Outlet all day at work today and realized that thing moves like an auction site! I saw a XPS 8700 with 16 GB of RAM and a 1 TB HD priced at six hundred something, which after the 35% discount came to $449.xx. In the time that it took me to think about it some more and click on it, it was gone.

Reckon I gotta git set down in front o' that thang and git busy buyin'...either that, er shaddup fer once't in fur all.

[thesameguy]

Few things:

*Don't* rely on the coupons. You need them, but the % means nothing. Dell messes with the base prices all the time so the final price with coupon is not fixed. A 35% off coupon is not inherently a better deal than a 25% off. You have to strike when the base price and the discount are best. For example, Kid's machine was like $430, but right now that same machine with the 35% off is $460. Not the same score. :) I keep my eyes out on the $430 i5 and $500 i7 models. That's usually when I let people know who are looking the time is right.

If you find something you think we want, add it to your cart immediately. Once added you have 15 minutes to complete the purchase or you lose it. 15 minutes is enough to do some comparison shopping. :) It's really more like Ticketmaster then Ebay. :D

Inventory changes frequently, so if you don't see that good deal or that specific configuration, check back. Just make a note of when the coupon is valid so you know your window. Related, if you find a configuration you like but miss it, wait a little bit then use their chat system. The chat operators have access to inventory that isn't posted, so if you tell them what you're looking for they will try and find it for you.

I use Dell Outlet a lot - it's kind of a pain, but it saves me a fair amount of money so I don't complain. ;)

[Kchrpm]

And make sure you post about whatever you buy on here immediately. Many years ago I bought a Dell PDA and mentioned it in the forum or on our IRC, and someone (jp) pointed out they had seen a coupon for a large discount on the higher spec model. I ended up saving money and getting a better spec because of it :up:

[George]

And make sure you post about whatever you buy on here immediately.

I always comply with that most primary function of the internet! :D

[overpowered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXTWCqTRIag

[thesameguy]

I kinda don't like it when consumers pose as experts. :(

[FaultyMario]

How do i avoid having to sign in via a microsoft account? I used to not have to type a user/password on startup but ever since I logged in to my hotmail account it always asks for the password. I don't want to to do that.

[thesameguy]

On Windows startup?

Once you tell Win10 to use your Microsoft account instead of a local account I don't think there is a way to divorce them again. But you can go into the Users control panel applet and create a new local user with no password, then log in using that.

[drew]

Just now getting this thread. Is an upgrade to 10 from 7 "worth it"?

I used XP for a lot longer than one probably should have, and went to 7 from it. I've never been interested in 8, or 10, really. New OS makes me nervous.

[Jason]

10 is pretty solid imo.

That being said, if your existing OS works, and none of the programs you use are giving you shit about upgrading, then why bother?

[FaultyMario]

What skellington said.

[FaultyMario]

On Windows startup?

Once you tell Win10 to use your Microsoft account instead of a local account I don't think there is a way to divorce them again. But you can go into the Users control panel applet and create a new local user with no password, then log in using that.

I chose the "use local account" option, I think that forces applications that have access to other microsoft services to prompt whoever is using the computer for the MS password.

[drew]

That's what I thought. 7 it is, indefinitely.

I love you guys :finger:

[thesameguy]

Sort of.

If you use a Microsoft Account for your login, your credentials will automatically be passed through to various Microsoft web-based services like Hotmail and Onedrive so you don't have to enter those username/passwords. If you use a local account, you will still be prompted for those username/passwords, however you can still save those credentials either via the password vault or web browser saved forms, just as in Windows XP/Vista/7.

If you are using a local account to log into Windows and it's requiring a password, it's not for your Microsoft account, it's just coincidence you typed the same thing. You can change your password to blank with CTRL-ALT-DEL.

If you originally set up with a local account, you may have been prompted later on to merge the local an Microsoft Account, and now you sign in with a Microsoft account instead. You can merge a local->Microsoft account, but you can't unmerge Microsoft->local account as far as I know. But, I've never tried it, never looked into it. Passwords are a good thing. :)

[thesameguy]

10 is pretty solid imo.

That being said, if your existing OS works, and none of the programs you use are giving you shit about upgrading, then why bother?

Tend to agree, but 10 is faster and more secure, has some very good UI elements that make working more efficient, and will get all the future support from hardware and software. I'm typically of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mindset, but I would look at 10 as a new product that might be worthwhile to get, rather than a "fix" to repair some shortcoming. Sure, your X360 works fine, but the Xbone is fancier.

[drew]

Now that you said that, I see it like "I don't need to buy a GTR because my Sentra is fine."


Damn it!

[thesameguy]

I was going to use a car reference, but it's so damned obvious. :D

If we're gonna do that, though, it's not so much Sentra->GTR but more like Sentra->Altima. Like, the Altima is nicer, but is it going to change your life? Probably not.

I like 10, for things I do it absolutely makes me more efficient. Coming to work and using 7 feels fine, but I am definitely aware of things that aren't as nice.

if you've got the time to commit to the upgrade, and you've done your research to ensure things you do won't break, I wouldn't hesitate on 10.

If you don't have the time or energy to ensure everything will keep working, I'd stick with 7. Staying put is definitely easier. :D

Edit: I will add: Eventually you'll have to move to 10. When you do it is up to you, of course.

[drew]

Considering I'm doing sweet fuckall at the moment, time really isn't a concern.

Also considering I'm not doing a lot with the PC (beyond normal office stuff, CAD (probably the one thing I'd have to check), I'm sure there's no potential issues.

I guess, as long as my CAD program works, and the Lego designer, it's all fair game :)

[Jason]

10 may be more secure, but Drew isn't exactly a target, and he's not dumb, so I don't think there's any large real world impact on his security, imo.

But, 10 does have some neat features, that I agree on. I'm just a fan of not upgrading OSes as a general rule, unless there's a real functional purpose. Inevitably something won't work when upgrading an OS, and if you did it for no reason at all, then it's a net negative. If you upgraded for specific reasons, and something else doesn't work, its likely a wash, or a potential positive.

[stephenb]

The way I see it is if you don't like change then you're best of upgrading in the next 25 days, while it is still free, as that way you won't have to upgrade again for the next 9 years. Windows 7 has already ended mainstream support and extended support ends Jan 2020. 10 will have extended support until Oct 2025. With 10 now available for a clean install right off the bat what are you waiting for?

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/gp/lifeselect

[thesameguy]

That's my general thinking as well.

Plus, everyone is a target for exploits. Ad brokers are routinely hacked and exploited, and all it takes is visiting mlb.com or some other mainstream site that's accidentally running malware ads or visit a totally legitimate site that's been hacked to be victimized by a driveby your OS can't protect against. You don't have to go anywhere "bad" or be a super special person to get hacked. If you're on the internet, you're a target.

https://itsecuritything.com/malvertising-ad-blockers-revenue-streams/

https://blog.malwarebytes.com/101/2015/10/advertising-brokers-background-information/

https://blogs.sophos.com/2014/03/26/how-malware-works-anatomy-of-a-drive-by-download-web-attack-infographic/

I would definitely consider improved security to be a selling point for 10, even for a cautious home user.

[FaultyMario]

I did it for the reasons Stephen presented. I'll stay put until the computer can no longer be updated.

[overpowered]

OK. I've cleared off my mSATA drive (256GB). If I'm reading this correctly

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/how-dual-boot-windows-7-or-8-with-windows-10-3633084/

then I can just boot from a Win10 DVD and select a custom install and install on the mSATA (which wants to be the boot drive due to my stupid BIOS no matter what anyway) and set up my laptop to dual boot Win7 and Win10. Anyone see any obvious flaws in that idea?

My other idea was to remove the regular drive and install Win7 again from the HP recovery disks and run the Win10 upgrade on it and then put the Win7 disk back in.

[dodint]

If you're going for the free Win10 upgrade using the Win7 key your installation of Win7 may switch to not-genuine.

That's such a specific use case that I can't actually say whether or not that's a valid concern or not, though. Just something to look out for.

[thesameguy]

Need more info. Are you intending to use the free upgrade, or did you buy a retail copy of 10?

[overpowered]

I was going for free. Is there some weird licensing thing with dual boot that site didn't tell me about?

[thesameguy]

It does actually tell you, but you may not have noticed. I guessed that was the case by the nature of your question.


Microsoft provides a downloadable version of the Windows 10 ISO on its site, although you’ll still need to activate the OS if you intend to use it permanently.

The free Win10 will only install over an activated copy of Win7 or newer. Installation is done from within the existing, running copy of Windows. If you want to dual boot Win10, you need to buy a retail copy or at least a retail key to activate your install.

If you are planning on dual booting just to see if you like 10, I'd recommend using an imaging tool to backup your current install and then doing the free upgrade. If you don't like it or it doesn't work for you, just replace the original 7 image. You could also back up the 10 install for use later if you think you might return to it. That should work - although obviously it's too early to be sure. :)

[dodint]

Your Win 7 key is used to activate Win 10, where it's turned into a Win 10 key (the key itself is also changed).

Again, I can't confirm 100%, but I doubt they'd let you upgrade for free and then continue using the original Win 7 key. It's basically 'turned in' to generate the Win 10 key. Our caution is that you may lose your valid Win 7 installation the next time it checks.

[thesameguy]

Your Win 7 key is used to activate Win 10, where it's turned into a Win 10 key (the key itself is also changed).

Again, I can't confirm 100%, but I doubt they'd let you upgrade for free and then continue using the original Win 7 key. It's basically 'turned in' to generate the Win 10 key. Our caution is that you may lose your valid Win 7 installation the next time it checks.

You can't dual boot, but you don't turn in your 7 key per se. That might be the case for retail copies of 7 (never tried, but I might), but since most OE (HP, Dell, etc.) keys are stored in a BIOS certificate, there is nothing to turn in or convert. You could reinstall 7 at any time and it would still activate as MS has no way of distinguishing your computer/key/install from any other Dell/HP/etc. computer/key/install. I've done that a lot lately while testing 10 for a large deployment.

(This is part of the reason they changed the system with 8 - people were removing the COA stickers from mass-produced machines and selling them on ebay, etc. Since that COA was a sticker with a unique number people would sell those off since the functional, fixed number cert was stored in the BIOS. Every mass-produced system effective came with two keys. With 8, they abandoned the COA/second key.)

[overpowered]

You can't dual boot, but you don't turn in your 7 key per se. That might be the case for retail copies of 7 (never tried, but I might), but since most OE (HP, Dell, etc.) keys are stored in a BIOS certificate, there is nothing to turn in or convert. You could reinstall 7 at any time and it would still activate as MS has no way of distinguishing your computer/key/install from any other Dell/HP/etc. computer/key/install. I've done that a lot lately while testing 10 for a large deployment.

(This is part of the reason they changed the system with 8 - people were removing the COA stickers from mass-produced machines and selling them on ebay, etc. Since that COA was a sticker with a unique number people would sell those off since the functional, fixed number cert was stored in the BIOS. Every mass-produced system effective came with two keys. With 8, they abandoned the COA/second key.)I can't dual boot but I can reinstall Win7 if I want? Weird.

Yes, my Win7 came from HP with the laptop (January 2012) and the key is printed on the flap that goes over the hard drive.

Thanks for the info. Glad I asked. I'm obviously not an expert at this stuff. Not sure if I want to bother if I can't dual boot. Have to think on it (quickly, apparently).

[thesameguy]

It's not by design you can reinstall, just a happy side effect of previous licensing schemes. You can also uninstall 10 - I've had to do that twice, it seems reliable.

[overpowered]

Out of curiosity, what happens if I try to dual boot like that article says? I assumed I would have to enter my Win7 key and it would work and that's apparently not the case?

[thesameguy]

Nope. Windows 7 keys and Windows 10 keys are not the same - you can't activate Windows 10 with a Windows 7 key. If you follow the article, you'll have an unactivated copy of Windows 10... which is what the article says. That unactivated copy will initially bug you and ultimately stop working.

During the Win7->10 upgrade the installer reads and verifies your activation status (which is why the upgrade is done from within Windows, and not from a boot disk) and generates a unique hardware ID. That ID is used to create an activation key for your upgraded 10 and is not transportable.

The upgrade installer only offers three options - install and keep everything, install and keep files (you reinstall apps), and install and erase everything. Those are your only choices, everything else is automatic. There is no facility to install elsewhere, dual boot, etc. It's an upgrade, not another copy. But, being an upgrade you can uninstall. Like I said, that seems to work.

This behavior consistent with previous upgrade versions of Windows, all the way from 2000, and it's for these reason I don't think your 7 key is "consumed" - I don't think it's ever transmitted or blacklisted. It could be, but that's not described. I think you could do the upgrade, nuke your computer, and reinstall 7 using the original key without incident. Further, I think this is what you'd need to do to reinstall 10 in case of catastrophe, just like the XP, Vista, 7, and 8 upgrade versions... you need your original OS/key available. Of course, you'd be foolish to do this - first thing you should do after upgrading to 10 is create recovery media... or run an image backup. Something to prevent you from having to reinstall two OSs.

Remember, this is an upgrade to your existing OS, not a free copy of Windows. You only get one OS as a result, not two.

[overpowered]

Thanks for the info.

[Freude am Fahren]

So I finally decided to upgrade my main PC before the free upgrade runs out. First thing I noticed is it deleted some programs (CPUID, HWMonitor, CCLeaner) without asking. Jerk.

Also, I'm running 3 screens and see the start bar (minus the task bar area) on the two side screens.

[thesameguy]

The removal of CPUID et al is documented... lame, but known. I don't agree with that particular policy, but nuking ccleaner makes sense. Plenty of dumbasses out there would run an old version of ccleaner for Win7 on their 10 box and blow something up. I can get behind a pre-emptive strike, although it would have been preferable to alert people it was happening and/or give the option to override.

I can't stress the importance of a backup before such a big upgrade enough. Always have a backup.

[mk]

Always have a backup.
Verified one.

[dodint]

Also, I'm running 3 screens and see the start bar (minus the task bar area) on the two side screens.

You can turn them off individually.

[Freude am Fahren]

Yeah, I figured that out quick enough. I ran a back up the day before :up:

[Rare White Ape]

Out of curiosity, what happens if I try to dual boot like that article says? I assumed I would have to enter my Win7 key and it would work and that's apparently not the case?

What about...

(crazy idea ahead)

Dual boot Win 7/Win 7 (is that possible?) and upgrade one of them to Win 10?

I've never set up a dial boot install before so I'm sure you'll all be quick to tell me it's a really silly idea :lol:

[thesameguy]

Actually, that might work. As long as the computer has a key certificate in the BIOS, you could essentially activate an unlimited number of copies of it on the same machine. Now, I don't know what would happen during the 10 upgrade in terms of messing with your boot loader, but if you have two drives (I think that was implied), you could put 7 and your boot loader on one drive, remove it, put 7->10 on the other drive, then reinstall the removed drive and reconfigure the boot loader.

That's some hardcore outside the box thinking! :up: OP has about 23 hours to try it before 10 isn't free anymore. :lol:

[overpowered]

OK. I've cleared off my mSATA drive (256GB). If I'm reading this correctly

...

My other idea was to remove the regular drive and install Win7 again from the HP recovery disks and run the Win10 upgrade on it and then put the Win7 disk back in.


What about...

(crazy idea ahead)

Dual boot Win 7/Win 7 (is that possible?) and upgrade one of them to Win 10?

I've never set up a dial boot install before so I'm sure you'll all be quick to tell me it's a really silly idea :lol:


That's some hardcore outside the box thinking! :up: OP has about 23 hours to try it before 10 isn't free anymore. :lol:

Um...

I may try that tomorrow.

[Rare White Ape]

Dooo eeet.

I want to see what happens.

[overpowered]

First attempt failed. I ran into this:

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-System-and-Recovery/quot-Detect-some-error-during-PININST-BBV-quot/td-p/2593075/page/5

I reset the BIOS settings to default like they say in that thread. I'm attempting a second install. It apparently works for some and not others. The bitch of it is that it doesn't fail until it's practically done. It's already configuring Windows Update by the time it hits that error. If it fails like that again I'll try putting the hard drive back in, boot it and downgrade the BIOS to what it had when it came from the factory. Sigh.

[overpowered]

Resetting BIOS settings to default worked. Had to reinstall Windows 7 from scratch again. Network drivers didn't install. Fortunately I had them on CD. Updating Windows Update right now. Bracing myself for several hours of Windows Updates to get the system ready for the upgrade.

It never asked me for my Windows key. I'm guessing that's because it's in the BIOS like TSG was alluding to?

[overpowered]

The update to windows update is taking forever to download. I don't think it's downloading.

I installed Speedfan and this new install appears to be able to see the fan for the GPU (but still not the CPU). On my other drive it couldn't see either one.

[thesameguy]

Yeah, you shouldn't need the key on any mass-produced computer. In fact, there are some hacks to put mass-produced BIOS certs in homebuilt computers. Certain Dell and HPs share adequately compatible BIOSs with mainstream components. Teehee.

I have noticed that in the past month or two Win10 via upgrade takes a LONG ASS TIME. Maybe they are getting slammed with requests. If you're in a hurry, download the MS Media Creation tool, make a USB flash drive (don't do DVD, trust me) and then install from the flash drive from within Windows. It's the exact same process, you just have the files beforehand. Using the Media Creation tool takes about 20-30 minutes, consumes an 8gb IIRC flash drive.

[overpowered]

The C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution directory has not grown in over 4 hours.

The WindowsUpdate.log hasn't had anything substantive in over 4 hours (just something about piggybacking on an AU detection already in progress).

I don't know if Windows Update is ever going to do anything and time is running out. It just keeps saying "checking for updates"

[thesameguy]

I had a system do that for 15 hours a week ago. I'd kill it and use a flash drive.

[overpowered]

I tried that a few hours ago and it wanted a Win 10 key.

[dodint]

https://www.microsoft.com/en-in/software-download/windows10ISO

Download it by telling it you just want the ISO, don't have it create media.

Use ISOtoUSB or Rufus to make a bootable flash drive.
http://www.isotousb.com/

Boot it.

[dodint]

This link may work for the next 24hrs: http://software-download.microsoft.com/pr/Win10_1511_2_English_x64.iso?t=9e408e6e-30df-44ef-89a8-891353503598&e=1469941054&h=2bb8b99b22ab417b49fdf74a0436882d

Win10 English x64

[overpowered]

I made it bootable using the tool TSG mentioned. It booted and it seemed to want to do an install rather than an upgrade.

[dodint]

Ok. Good luck.

[overpowered]

Hmm. Looking at the web page again I downloaded UpgradeAssistant. That seems to be setting up an upgrade. It's downloading right now.

[overpowered]

Clearly, I was confused about how install from USB worked. I didn't realize that you just run setup. I finally got to the right path to select upgrade. I could have gotten to that point hours ago if I had realized.

It upgraded; just under the wire. There seems to be some issues with HP drivers and software, much of which got removed. I had no real data to lose on the drive.

Going to bed. I'll try to figure out multi-boot tomorrow.

[mk]

Is this the machine with boring fans?