Yea or Nay?

[KillerB]

- Length of gig: 2 years
- Location: Saudi Aramco, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia
- Pay: $US 240k-300k
- The question: do I give up two years of my life to live in Saudi fucking Arabia for half a million USD? Especially considering the first $100k or so each year will be untaxed?

[thesameguy]

Yes. My friend did an internship there and it was great. My sister works in worse places for similar money and says it's well worth it.

[KillerB]

Hmm, what did your friend have to say about what it was like there? I understand it's a compound of about 30,000 westerners, but I don't know too much else about what it's like there.

[G'day Mate]

Bloody hell, that's one hell of a decision.

Don't turn into what we Aussies refer to as a "cashed-up bogan" - make sure you have a plan for what to do with it. In fact, don't touch it at all!

PS. What do you do?

[KillerB]

Healthcare IT - I implement electronic medical record systems.

The plan for the money would be to return to California and either put down payments on several rental properties, or just buy a house with cash monies.

Also understand that my housing and food would be paid for as well, so basically everything I make can go straight in my bank account.

[EDIT: Okay, not gonna lie, I'd probably also buy a Hellcat]

[IMOA]

I'll make a few random comments

You'll spend more money than you think. You should still be able to save a decent amount but you're not going to live like a student

Living in a compound sucks but the nice thing about the location is is close enough for long weekends in europe and asia (see previous comment about spending more than you think)

Personally I find that the team you're working with matters more than the job or the money (well, within reason, good money helps quite a bit but it isn't as big a deal as you think)

Having an interest in the location and the local people makes working in different countries a hell of a lot easier. If the location or the people don't interest you it can make it a long hard haul.

If you go make sure you enjoy yourself and do things that you otherwise wouldn't have the opportunity to do. That will cost you money but it will be far more worth it than saving a bit extra.

[Mortavian]

The question: do I give up two years of my life to live in Saudi fucking Arabia for half a million USD? Especially considering the first $100k or so each year will be untaxed?

Hell yes, absolutely.

[thesameguy]

Hmm, what did your friend have to say about what it was like there? I understand it's a compound of about 30,000 westerners, but I don't know too much else about what it's like there.

My friend comes from money so he was able to come home every so often and it didn't feel like being away forever. That said, he was working for a bank (not sure which, maybe Credit Suisse though I may be getting his career path screwed up) and working with other transplants mostly. I actually don't know what his living situation was other than provided. The comment he made that stuck with me was that it felt like Vegas in that nobody actually lives there, so he was simultaneously an outsider and just like everyone else. Although from money, he wasn't living it up as he is pretty darned responsible - work, sleep, etc. I can't comment on the nightlife. He is in Chicago now but we still talk, so if there is anything you'd like to know I am happy to pass it on.

[neanderthal]

yes.


With the caveats given.

[G'day Mate]

Healthcare IT - I implement electronic medical record systems.

Hah, I build those things. I should jump across into your line of work

[overpowered]

On the one hand, I would hate living in Saudi Arabia. On the other hand, that's a ridiculous crap load of money. For two years, I'd suck it up. It's too much money to pass up.

[FaultyMario]

Yes. Just make sure to invest some of your earnings on wild, wild vacations.

[MR2 Fan]

Saudi Arabia is relatively safe, oddly. I have a few filipina friends who live there for work. Mostly they complain about sandstorms, bad weather and missing some of their favorite foods...but other than that, not many complaints....and they're females, so it's surprising.

[Cam]

Yea.


On the one hand, I would hate living in Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia has not been tried and found difficult. It has been deemed difficult and not tried. :P

[overpowered]

No beer.

[KillerB]

Thanks for the input.

tsg - I'd definitely like to hear more about your friend's experience. When did he do this? Honestly, right now, nightlife is not super important to me.

IMOA - Yeah, thinking I'd be a total hermit is probably wishful thinking. Travel would definitely be the #1 thing I'd be looking to spend money on. I could afford to use basically whatever time off I get traveling to parts of the world that would be a much bigger production coming from the US. I'm thinking a long weekend in Germany or Japan would be no huge deal flying from the Middle East, right? As far as the team, regardless of the overall makeup of the compound, at this stage nearly everyone with experience implementing this EMR comes from the US (with the Netherlands being the only other country with implementations that have been live for a while), and considering the small size of the industry, I would expect to run into at least one other person I've worked with before. I'd definitely be interested to interact with locals (do you call them Saudis? I thought that was the name of the royal family?) but I don't know how much opportunity I'd get. It sounds like a fair number of the hospital staff will be from south and east Asia, but the lingua franca at Aramco is definitely English. I definitely intend - if I go - to make it an adventure of a lifetime.

G'day - send me a PM and I'll shoot you my email; you can let me know exactly what you're doing and I might have some ideas on how you can break into this.

MR2 - Good to know. The only woman I know personally who worked in Saudi Arabia came back in 4 months and hated every minute, but she worked in Riyadh.

op - I've quit drinking for the time being, for various reasons including overall health and losing weight. I'm sure I'll go back to having a beer now and then but I'm surprised how little I miss it right now.

I've submitted my resume and I've got a colleague who has done a lot of work with this recruiter and is writing me a glowing recommendation. So, we'll see.

I'm probably at the best point in my life to do this - no significant other, no pets, no house... honestly I'd be most sad to have to give away my lemon tree. :( Also I'm guessing if they'll ship my car, they certainly won't ship two, so the Mazda will need to get stored.

[thesameguy]

I wanna say three years ago, maybe four now. Time slips away. It was part of a college program - an ROP for bankers. ;) I don't actually know how he came upon it exactly, but the deal for him was it was an opportunity to do real work very early in his career, so while the pay wasn't anything to write home about (literally), when he got back he slid right into an awesome job having had experience nobody else his age could boast. His program was two semesters, so, what, eight months? Not two years, but he also wasn't getting paid. If you can nose to the grindstone (as my sister does) you can sock away huge amounts of money and time will fly by. She comes home for less than one month out of the year (some income/residency restrictions I don't recall) so 11 months out of the year she is making six figures and has zero living expenses. Or, rather, that was the deal - she came home, then moved to Texas (husband's job) last year. A two year run even making 100k of tax-free income while someone else pays your living expenses is an enormous leg up - you don't generally get huge chunks of money in life, and it's those windfalls that are the building blocks of solid wealth. Even if it was the worst two years of your life, I'd *still* do it.

[Alan P]

If an opportunity like this came up for one of us, a friend, relative or colleague, what would you say? Probably 'go for it' right? In which case I would. It's a different country, a shortish hop to Europe, gas is cheap and you could come back with $100k or more in the bank. IMO you'd be daft not to. Do it.

[Dicknose]

Japan from Middle East, about same distance as from US.
Tokyo - Riyadh is almost the same as Tokyo - LA

Southern Europe is close.

I'd do it, but be prepared to have some bad times. It is a big change and can have ups and downs.
Try to make it enjoyable rather than something to suffer for money.
Internet makes it easier to keep in contact with friends! My time working in another country it was still letters and phone calls. Parents would mail me newspaper clippings so I could keep up on sports results!

[IMOA]

Long weekend in germany would be no problem, as dicknose said Japan is still a long way away. In regards to the team it's more about the specific individuals you'll be working with, you'll be spending a lot of time with them and you'll have a lot less opportunity to spend time with others so the people you're directly working with have a much bigger impact on your sanity than the team you're working with back home. That said, the most important thing to do when travelling for work is to get some friends outside of work and do that quickly.

All that said, I thought your living situation was somewhat different so given what you've said in that regard it changes it significantly towards the 'go and do it' side of things. But I'd strongly urge you to do it for the experience and to leap at any opportunities to enhance that. With your stuff I'd be surprised if they moved anything over for you, from what you've described this is an expat thing, not a relocation thing, so normal practice would be that you take what you carry on the plane and maybe chuck in a token amount for shipping a couple of boxes of stuff.

So short version is go for it, but do it for the experience, not the money as quite frankly it's not that much money but it is a great opportunity to have experience a bunch of things that you could never see or do in the US.

[JoshInKC]

I believe that "Saudi" is the accepted nomenclature for the people. The royal family(which, by the way, is pretty close to a clan, with something like 12-13,000 members) are either "al-Saud" or "The House of Saud."

[GB]

No wife?
No kids?

No problem. Go.

[TheBenior]

No wife?
No kids?

No problem. Go.

This.

[drew]

Thirded. Dude, don't end up down the future road saying the two most horrible words in English "what if" (or the three most horrible "if only I'd...)


This sounds like a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

Maybe we can put it another way for you:

If you don't do it, everyone here that would never be given such an opportunity will mail you dogshit for the two years you should be there. :)

In all honesty, I see no downside to this at all. It sounds like a great opportunity on almost every facet.

[George]

No wife?
No kids?

And, no desire to change that situation for a couple/few/several more years?

Other benefits of going (I'm guessing) include the professional contacts you'll make there, the professional knowledge you'll gain, the awesomeness (I assume) of having this experience on your resume, the ability to use your time there in future job interviews and sales pitches about why you are The Man, and the whole "moving up the income ladder" principle.

It seems to me most folks who make the jump from mediocre cube farm inmate (like me) into jobs with Really Nice Compensation Packages tend to stay there for a good while, and often for the rest of their careers.

Congratulations for getting yourself into a situation where you have a decision like this to make. A lot of us troglodytes never do.

[George]

Saudi Arabia has not been tried and found difficult. It has been deemed difficult and not tried. :P

I see what you did there. :lol:

[Random]

In all honesty, I see no downside to this at all. It sounds like a great opportunity on almost every facet.

Moving to a medieval country seems like a downside to me, personally.

[Yw-slayer]

Do it, man.

[KillerB]

So there are a few downsides:
- Giving up a pretty cushy job in where I'd really like to spend the rest of my life (Southern California), though I've spoken to my boss and he is willing to do everything he can to make it possible for me to return to the same company
- What Russ said, though from what I've read online, Saudi law isn't enforced in some ways in the compound (women dress as they please, pork and alcohol are available, yadda yadda)
- Erm, that's about it

[Freude am Fahren]

I'd say go for it. But it is relative. I don't know what you make now, but for me that is a ton of money in two years, and it'd be no question.

Plus, who knows, maybe it leads to a stint in a country you'd really like to go to?

[KillerB]

It's about double what I make now, not counting the tax benefits and the fact that I won't be paying for housing or food.

[Alan P]

I'm still surprised that you're still only considering it. I've been put off moving 400 miles away for work by my kids and associated ex wife. You have none of these things.

[Leon]

I would give it a go if I was willing to uproot my life.

If I was content, I would stay put.

[neanderthal]

You're not held here by anything.

You can weekend in Europe (you're pretty much next door!) once a month.

Trips to the Nurburgring, Eiffel Tower, Louvre, Piccadilly Circus, Hungary, The Wailing Wall, The Pyramids, cycling in/ through Belgium and Holland, clubbing in Corfu or Cyprus if that's your thing, ancient Greece, fly a MiG in Russia; all this stuff will be close to you. You'll have the disposable income to do it all.

As others have said, I really can't fathom what is holding you back. The furthest places will be far Asia, Australia and back home.

[21Kid]

Yay! I would do it if I were in your shoes.

Just from the food/housing/tax-free $100k savings, you could live it up or travel a lot... without even touching the $500k salary. Just guessing, you'd probably have around $60k in "fun money" from those 3 things that you can spend on making the most of the time.

Plus, being in a small field, you'll meet a lot of important contacts. Which might be more important than the salary in the long run. Don't be a hermit, mingle/schmooze, meet new people.


P.S. I can't believe you didn't include a poll. :finger:

[Alan P]

If he included a poll he'd be on his way to Afrika by now! :)

[21Kid]

Good point!

[Crazed_Insanity]

Moving to a medieval country seems like a downside to me, personally.

I'd 2nd that.

If accumulating wealth is one of your top life goals, then yeah, do it. Or if this can help further advance your career..., then yeah do it.

Otherwise, I'm not really sure if it's worth it wasting 2 years of life... plus, better be sure you can stay the hell away from ISIS.

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/international/Screen%20Shot%202013-04-02%20at%2012.16.19%20PM.png

[JSGeneral]

Do your research. If you're okay with all of this then you should be good to go:

Saudi Arabian Invertebrates (or 'Are There Camel Spiders in Saudi Arabia?') (http://www.northwestwildlifeonline.com/Saudi%20Arabian%20Invertebrates%20Homepage.htm)

[FaultyMario]

Wouldn't that be like saying "careful with them gators in Miami!"?

[George]

So what is that map telling us about Canada?

[KillerB]

Well I'm "only considering it" in that I'm waiting to hear the full scoop on the project, the rate, the accommodations, the full federal and state tax implications, etc.

If those all check out to my satisfaction, and I get the job, I'm going.

[MR2 Fan]

So what is that map telling us about Canada?

I'll take a wild guess and say the map was sourced from a Canadian website, which means Billi is secretly a Canuckian

[Crazed_Insanity]

Canada, the final frontier. Go at your own risk.

[Fogelhund]

I'd say go, enjoy, save, and good luck.

[KillerB]

Starting serious discussions tomorrow. Stay tuned.

[Alan P]

I have no doubt there will be several sites for Americans staying in Saudi as there are quite a few for british and english ex pats.

[Conman]

Do it. It will be better than my two years in the Middle East, and you'll make a buttload more money.

Seriously, do it. No downside. None. Nada.

Spend a little and enjoy the time and when you are 50 you will look back and say it was two of the most enjoyable years of your life.

[KillerB]

Well, the process is started. We'll see where it goes.

My biggest concern is whether I'll be able to find work in my field somewhere I want to live when I return!

[MR2 Fan]

Well, the process is started. We'll see where it goes.

My biggest concern is whether I'll be able to find work in my field somewhere I want to live when I return!

Well with a good enough financial cushion I wouldn't worry too much

[KillerB]

I'm not banking this money so I can spend it being unemployed when I return. ;)

[Kchrpm]

Listen to this while reading the thread.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqH21LEmfbQ

[Crazed_Insanity]

My biggest concern is whether I'll be able to find work in my field somewhere I want to live when I return!

That is indeed a concern. If this doesn't further your career, maybe it's not a good move.

Money really shouldn't be the only reason to make to move... unless you can be independently wealthy after 2 years, then maybe I'd go. Otherwise...

[Yw-slayer]

Why wouldn't you be able to? In certain professions like law, if your contacts may go stale, but it doesn't sound like that's too likely to happen in your profession(?).

[ettsn]

Just got back from UAE, and loved it! Could easily be happy there for a couple years, especially for $300k/yr.

Going to Saudi in probably February. I have to assume it won't compare to Dubai, but it's still nothing like visiting Iraq, Iran, Syria, etc.

I say go for it!

[Alan P]

Not entirely Sure Iran is a good place for an American to visit?

[MR2 Fan]

Not entirely Sure Iran is a good place for an American to visit?

On this topic, a few weeks ago, on TV, Anthony Bourdain visited Iran for his "Parts Unknown" series and had a great time...said he met the friendliest people there. It's the goverment that's messed up, just like most places.

[KillerB]

Needless to say, I'm still in California. It seems a few things got in the way - a global oil crash, the death of the King, yadda yadda... still might happen but it's been postponed.

[Random]

Needless to say, I'm still in California.

That's an ok fall-back. ;)

[KillerB]

I know, right?

[Yw-slayer]

Tough, BRO, I feel for you.