Hey. Thinking of a z for a track car....
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Hey. Thinking of a z for a track car....
I have some Z31 projects you can have for CHEAP.
Short sessions at the local kart track, or real track work? If the latter, budget for an oil cooler, brake work (minimum Brembo package with good pads, fluid, and extra air ducting.... or a proper BBK front and rear), and possibly a diff cooler or at least a finned diff cover. Heat management was not the strongest point of the Z33 stock. It's even worse on the Z34 - that one has engine cooling issues as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godson
Other than that, very fun/rewarding car. Lies somewhere between a scalpel Japanese sports car and an American pony/sports car. Z33s are good value right now and will be for a long while - they made so many.
Someone should put a Z34 engine in a Z34.
And drive it on County Highway Z34 in Iowa.
https://goo.gl/maps/TAAmz7ZpAFu
There was an event in California where we got Saab 99s and drove them 99 miles on Highway 99 in 1999. That was a lot of fun. Someone should organize a Z34 on Z34 drive and everyone bring Chevys or Nissans. :lol:
Did you get 99 of them? ;)
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It seemed for a little while that the randomized O2 sensor CELs had stopped after installing the ground wire from muffler to chassis. Then I got a new code in the middle of the autocross last weekend, still O2 sensor related, which has since recurred 3 more times: P0057 HO2S Heater Control Circuit Low (Bank 2 Sensor 2)
Hmm. This is the first time the code has been the same one twice. Maybe something's actually wrong with the sensor or wiring, or perhaps the ground is good enough for everything but this circuit.
Is everything symmetric enough in the engine bay (wiring harness, plug locations) that you can swap the O2 sensor(s) side to side and see if the code follows it/them?
That was the intent, but there were not 99 to be found! ;)
Ain't it a bitch?
Duh. *pokes head* Now that the fault is consistent I can try that again. Will do something shortly and see if the code follows. Interestingly enough the plugs are the same L and R on the HR, but the DE has different ones L to R that prevent swapping sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random
I think that became typical to prevent techs from screwing up. Hey, at least it's not the Volvo where the O2 sensor and knock sensor connectors are the same and right next to each other. Hilarity often ensues.
As I recall there's something very similar to that (maybe even the same thing - I know at least one of the plugs is for the knock sensor) on the 300ZX.
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I think I found the problem.
Attachment 1998
:lol:
These connectors don't lock together either, which seems odd to me. I have a feeling I stretched this wire loom a little taught and during high load maneuvers or bumps (or someone I know sweeping (a) cone(s) under the car ;)) it came loose. Roadtrip to Camarillo tonight and we'll see if it stays put and codes stay away.
Zip tie the connector together.
Those connectors should lock - if they don't, they're broken. Zip ties definitely work in a pinch!
I'd think they should lock but they feel different than other electrical plugs. They don't have a firm "click" into place like others do (resistance and suddenly "we're in!"). These gradually get more resistance as they come together until you think, yeah, that's enough, they're not going any further. Never any click.
So over the weekend all was fine for the drive down and about halfway through the autox (24 runs total). Then P0037 cropped up. Same code as before but on the opposite side (Bank 1 instead of Bank 2). This one has come back on 2 or 3 times after clearing codes, too. Checking today, everything's still plugged in. And I remain befuddled. :)
I would think that when the Bank 2 rear sensor is completely unplugged from the chassis harness, I'd get multiple codes or a more serious code from the ECU because it should be seeing no feedback at all. Now that the sensor is plugged in again the code moves to the other side even though it has been plugged in this whole time... it makes me think it's a mysterious ground problem, again.
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It's a little early to call but it appears the car may be rapidly wearing the insides of other front tires too. This may be bugging my thoughts for a while too - everything up front I can think of is either new or not broken/worn as far as I can tell.
- Same upper A-arms as the old car (bushings cleaned and re-greased, none felt undersized to me).
- Front wheel bearings are only a couple of years old.
- All 6 control arm bushings are new Megan Racing parts (harder rubber)
- Can't detect any tie rod play.
- No clunks up front.
- Zero toe.
- Car drives really well on the street. Front does wander in ruts but that's normal sports car behavior IME especially with stiff springs and lots of camber.
The only other thing that comes to mind is the steering - it's lighter effort on the new car compared to the old one, and the new car feels like it has less castor. [Castor angle is not adjustable on these cars]. Those two things can go hand in hand. When near full steering lock, like in a parking lot, the new car will sometimes either not have any centering force or will even turn the steering wheel more as I creep along.
As if anyone needed any additional proof that RPF1s look good on everything:
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/164219779/large.jpg
When are you selling the other car? And any idea on how much?
Still no idea, heh. Local market seems not great for Zs, especially early ones, but most here are pretty ragged too. I have a couple local people who have expressed interest. Going to be replacing a wheel bearing this week, looks like. Anyway, my estimate has been anywhere from $7k to $10k, and at the moment it looks like it'll serve DD duty for a while. Two to six months, maybe more. Need more money for the DD I think I want - about $12k perhaps.
I don't know if this is relevant but a friend of mine had a brand new '05 350Z and he was annoyed when it was "recalled" (I think actually a TSB) for "excessive front tire wear." I went with him to the dealer to bring him back, and we talked to a tech and not a service writer. The tech told us that the '05 (at least) had "aggressive" front suspension that coupled with the factory "aggressive" alignment would result in premature tire wire. The fix was to mostly zero out the front end, which would alleviate but not eliminate the wear. Peter was really annoyed that the car he test drove was not the car he got to drive, but they did replace his totally dead front tires (at like 9,000 miles IIRC) with new ones, so there was an upside.
I don't keep up with Zs, but maybe your camber wear is unavoidable with anything approaching a good alignment?
Yeah there was a TSB when the cars first came out (2003 or 2004) for front tire feathering. I just looked it up in more detail: http://www.nissantireproblems.com/autoweek-tsb.html
Nissan engineers determined it was a toe-out issue. I gather it's something to do with the dual LCA ball joint design being sensitive to toe out somehow. Nissan's fix in the TSB was to replace/pro-rate tires and perform a precise alignment on a recently calibrated machine. I've been unable to find any documented changes to the front suspension that might have solved this issue for later cars. My best guess is the alignment was more carefully monitored from the factory from 2005 onward, and the specified front toe range was narrowed.
The funny thing is my 2003 has normal sports car tire wear in my opinion. My 2007 is killing tires at an alarming rate even with 0 toe. Possible the Megan bushings allow more deflection in a certain direction? They're supposed to be a harder rubber. I did make certain the radius rod bushings were clocked identically to the way the factory ones were.
If I can't solve this and the persistent CELs I may not keep the car too long. :\ Shame because I really like the color, engine, and a lot of other things about it. I'm kindof in limbo waiting to upgrade the stereo and electronic smart boxes for TC and so on. I don't want to put a ton of work in only to undo it.
Put it this way. The new set of Bridgestone RE71Rs has 72 autocross runs on them and less than 500 street miles on them. They are far more worn on the inside edge than either the outside or middle. So in 500 street miles the tread on the inside is low to the point where, without any rotation or other changes, I think 2,000 miles would see cords there. That's crazy.
And another thing. I've often run cars with ~3 degrees negative camber up front and a smidge of toe out, and gotten much better wear than this. So unless the suspension on the 2007 toes-out dramatically when rolling forward at speed, I'm still pretty stumped. And even the complaints that prompted the TSB way back when weren't of sub-2,000 mile tire life.
Have you thought about measuring bump steer, etc to see if it's something along that line and fixable?
Yeah - or find a friendly alignment shop and have them ratchet down the car while on the rack to see what the suspension is doing under compression. Maybe the stiffer bushings result in a weird deflection that doesn't happen normally or is exacerbated by wide (I presume!) tires... although, if that was a thing you'd think someone would have commented on it by now. I will mention - not that it has anything to do with anything - that the Fiero *murdered* a set of tires with what I thought was slight toe out. Rear tires, 2,000 miles, the insides were down to the cords! I bring it up because Fiero rear suspension is kinda like most cars' front suspension. ;)
What was the solution on the Fiero?
I can't change geometry in my class (well, I could change caster if I bought different upper control arms, but the ones that I know of that adjust caster as well as camber have a design that can slip). I'm not sure what I could do about bump steer if it was causing toe out under compression. But on the highway there shouldn't be much of that going on... just in dips and those are such a brief time period.
I zero'ed the toe, left camber at 3 degrees. After another 3,000 miles, zero appreciable wear. I really don't know specifically what the issue was, some combo of wide tires, moar low, too much toe I guess.I have never seen wear like that in my life!
Update on the tire wear (and possibly related fuel economy?). I checked out the front end today...
- No discernable play with wheels on the ground. (Obviously when you pull hard enough bushings compress, the car moves, etc).
With wheels in the air (and still attached firmly to the hubs):
- No detectable play in ball joints or tie rods.
- Tie rods roughly equal in length.
- I could engage a small amount of mechanical slop by pushing upwards on the tire from underneath it (using my body to lift, enough to cause the suspension to compress against the force of the Hotchkis anti roll bar). I've never tried this with another car. But it didn't seem like a revelation. I wasn't able to feel any play by using a jack handle as a pry under the tire to test the ball joints.
- Each upper control arm has one of its two attachment points to the chassis allow about 1mm of play in the inboard / outboard direction when I push/pull on that end of the arm. On the passenger side it's the front attachment point. On the driver's side it's the rear attachment point. It's tough to see exactly how much play there is because it takes enough force that my head isn't totally stable, but it doesn't take herculean force either. I can also hear this play in the squish-squish noise of the bushing grease. The play is more pronounced with the steering fully right, and less pronounced with the steering fully left.
This would seem to point to an uneven left-to-right problem (tire wear or otherwise) at first. I haven't noticed any. Just symmetrical tire wear. Again, though, I couldn't replicate this play with the car on the ground. And yes, I could reach, as long as steering was at full lock.
The old car had inner tie rod play for a while, and later a rear wheel bearing going quite bad (car shifting laterally when changing gears etc), with no noticeable increase in tire wear. The new car doesn't have anything like this going on, but the tire wear problem persists. So not sure if those are the right avenues to explore.
Here's another strange difference in the two cars that would seem on the surface to point to massively different caster. When parked and steering back and forth, lock to lock, the new car has a pronounced "jacking effect." The front end rolls laterally as the steering moves side to side. It's something I noticed right away with the car when it was stock. I just tested it again now and on the modified suspension it still has more of this jacking effect than the old silver car has on its stock suspension (or ever had, to the best of my recollection).
But the new car's steering is lighter on the road than the old car, which to me would suggest the opposite caster difference that the above phenomenon suggests.
Yet caster is pretty close between the two cars as measured on the same alignment rack.
You understand why I'm confused? :lol:
That jacking is definitely weird, and it certainly does suggest a caster issue, but I don't think caster could ever affect tire wear unless you spent your life driving in circles. I think the only thing that would really affect tire wear to the degree you're experiencing is a static, straight-line problem. The camber seems aggressive but well within reason, I'd really be looking at toe.
I don't know enough about the Z's front suspension to comment on whatever play might be present, but any decent alignment tech should be able to. When the car is on the rack, if they can reliably set the alignment then whatever play might exist won't be severe enough to affect tire wear. If they can't set the alignment, then you have a suspension that may adversely affect wear.
Related, is it possible that alignment was set on stock, worn rubber and now with the new harder rubber something that was marginal got pushed out of whack? Have you tried doing a garage string alignment just to check toe?
I haven't, and probably don't have the tools. I borrowed toe plates at Nationals and found it was 1/16" out. Seems within the realm of normal to me - I've run that on a lot of cars in the past. Possibly even the old Z, I don't remember (it's been 0 toe for a while but may not always have been). After Nationals I had the blue car re-aligned and this time the old pro was manning the machine. He didn't mention anything unusual even though I had pointed out tire wear was a problem. So yeah the car was aligned on the newer bushings. I didn't bother when it was on old bushings as I knew I'd be replacing at least two of them before running the car.
Yeah, 1/16" out isn't crazy no matter what, unless the toe changes radically with compression and you're a big fatso. ;)
I would really find a friendly alignment shop that will let you ratchet down the car while it's on the rack to see what changes under compression. Maybe exaggerating the normal scenario will point out something that is missed when it's unloaded? I take my cars to the shop that does alignments for all the dealers so I know I'm getting people who know how things should be - maybe you've got a similar local shop?
Not local, but I do have a friend in SJ...
Again though, shouldn't be much compression going on during highway driving. Just bumps.
Well, I certainly agree, but if the static alignment checks out then the only other possibility is a dynamic problem, and it's a lot easier to check that out when the car is stationary than when moving... ;)
Took the MR2 out of hibernation for its annual drive today.
Man, I need another one of these to drive around without fear. Every time I take this car out something happens to it, or nearly so. But anyway, these cars are so awesome. It just feels right. The motor is actually the least endearing thing about it; sub-2-liter old school turbocharged laziness moving around 2800lbs. In my dreams I've stroked it to 2.2L, added a modern turbocharger, and upped the boost for a more modern experience. But it's hard to modify a car that gets driven so rarely and is being preserved as one of the few stock remaining examples.
Just need to hit the lotto for that 10 car garage so I can get another one, modify it, and put it alongside a Supra TT for good measure. :sadbanana:
Every winter I think about doing work to the car since I haven't touched it mechanically/cosmetically in years. Every year I don't do anything. Hmph!
How are the rubber bits (both bushings and weatherstripping) holding up?
Pretty well considering their age. I think some of the bushings are just starting to feel a little sloppy (indeed one of the rear arm bushings has several cracks around the visible outer rim). The weatherstripping is doing very well thanks to not seeing much sun, I think. I need to treat it again, though, it's feeling a little dry. One piece of weatherstripping has an oxidation look to it and a few years ago I looked into replacing it - only comes as part of the side rear window assembly, and only '94-95 style is available. Hmph, again. :)
I'm a little surprised the alignment feels off now on the '03 after replacing the right rear knuckle assembly. The bushings in both new (used) and old assemblies looked about the same. The wheel bearing was the big difference, but the car was last aligned when the old bearing was doing OK and it drove straight and true. I would have thought the new knuckle would be located and angled much the same as the outgoing one but something feels off now. Don't feel like spending another $90 on an alignment so soon after the previous one, though. Being a cheap perfectionist sucks. :lol:
Places like Big O will check it for free. At least you could find out if that's the problem or something else.
Here was a fun one from the mad dash STU build process.
The e-brake is a drum-in-hat setup and I had to disconnect the cables to change subframes. Which meant partially disassembling the shoe control mechanism. I know it's hard to see what you're looking at in the pic below, but the brake rotor (aka drum hat) is removed and the green arrow points to the head on the back of a stud. On the right of the photo are the springs for the shoes.
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/16...4/original.jpg
The red arrow points to a little part that I'm not sure of the purpose of. As best I can tell it prevents the e-brake cable from being pushed too far out (I suppose possible if it's misadjusted in a big way?). It's designed to hinge on one end and in this picture you can see it is swung out about as far as it goes. In this position the back of the stud strikes this part when the hub rotates. Ok, so obviously that's not how it's supposed to be. But the way this part is angled even when not pulled out like that, gravity can totally put it in that position. What the...? :) I couldn't (and still can't) figure this one out. Since I didn't have the luxury of time, my solution was to inspect the bracket mechanism from my spare knuckle assembly (purchased for the wheel bearing replacement on the '03!). Lo and behold, this little mystery part is more snugly held in place to the mechanism just by friction. Tolerances! So I swapped mechanisms. Solved.
But this (as seen in the picture) is how loose that part was on the car before removing the mechanism. No issues. But gravity totally should have made that part run into the rotating studs and destroyed something.
I hate engineers who do that.
I tried a spray wax yesterday morning. Very impressed so far. It's much faster than traditional waxing, and cheaper, and the results are better than I expected on the silver 350Z. It hadn't been properly detailed since we've had it - just a light hand polish and a seal probably a year ago, so basically no protection anymore since it sits outside most of the time. That means plenty of contaminants on the paint and light swirls, so far from the ideal surface to apply a wax.
I used Meguiars Ultimate Quik Wax. Pleasant surprise is how it looks - it's only one car and I haven't done an A/B test but this appears to have more of a carnauba glow/rich look than a glassy sealant look to my eyes. They say you can use this stuff on glass and it has a Rain-X effect, too. I've done that but it has yet to rain to test its effectiveness.
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/16...3/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/16...2/original.jpg
It's hard to capture the details of the look in photos but trust me, it's a big improvement.
It'll be a good maintenance wax to keep some protection going on. It takes 10 minutes with this stuff so no excuses for not doing it now!
I'll still properly correct/detail the car this winter or spring though.
Missed this before. I did not know that. I'm fairly certain my feeling is right, that the alignment is off, so I'd probably end up paying for one anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by thesameguy
That wax does look good - I think I will give it a go on the Benz when I'm down in SoCal over T-Day!
Sharp!! :up:
Now the ugly side. :)
Any tips for removing dried up old vinyl? The blue part of the replica Nismo stripe has been flaking off recently. I went to remove the whole thing today. Normally, you get a fingernail under a corner to start it and peel back from there. No problem. Maybe clean up a little adhesive residue after.
This blue stripe is so dried up I only get a tiny tiny piece to flake off at a time. After an hour I hadn't even gotten an inch of it off, and I have about 10 feet to do. Hoping there's a better way without damaging the finish beneath! If this was on glass it'd be easy... Goof Off and a razor blade.
I got nothing. I have a similar problem with old tape on the SPG, and I have tried everything I can think of. If you find an answer, please share with the group. :|
http://m.homedepot.com/p/Astro-Pneum...lYzRoCYT7w_wcB
Used this a bunch. Works great.
I would chuck it in to a regular cordless drill on the low speed. You might follow up with some light hand polish and wax afterwords
I just learned about plastic razor blades. I'm going to go pick one up and try it tomorrow with steam, or Goo Gone. Then if that doesn't do it, might have to resort to this drill attachment... sounds scary. :)
I'll be doing a proper machine polish on the car some time after the stripes are removed anyway. It's going to look so boring. :)
Don't waste your time with the plastic razorblade. Serious.
That eraser is safe on metal backed paint. Do nkt use it on anything plastic backed. Like bumper covers etc. It will take paint and primer with it.
I promise you it is completely safe.
I haven't had a clear day at home with good weather to come back to the vinyl yet, but will update when the time comes.
I did get a chance to come back to the tire wear thing and check tire temps after nearly 2 hours of highway driving. With the probe, it showed 110F on the inside edges of the front tires, going down to about 85 on the outsides. Didn't seem particularly high to me. I checked the rears, too, and they were 105F on the inside.
It would stand to reason the increased tire wear is related to temperature, but this is suggesting temperatures are normal and in line with the camber of the car (-3.5 front, -2.8 rear, roughly).
Also, tire testing is very interesting (and fun! Who doesn't like pounding around on other people's tires?). Nexen invited me to try some experimental stuff and give detailed feedback. Look for an article in SportsCar magazine in the not too distant future.
That is an interesting discovery. I never checked tire temps on the Fiero because it was obviously an alignment problem... which an alignment cured. Is it possible under heavy use that differential/wear grows? Maybe something that isn't a problem on the street but becomes a problem quickly when pushed?
Also, if you ever run into excess tire testing requirements, you know who to call. ;)
I can't imagine a scenario where inside shoulder wear increases as the tire is pushed. The car stops too well for it to be only using the inner edge of the front tires under braking...
Blue car got the spray wax treatment now too. Now you can see the flake in the paint.
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/16...7/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/16...4/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/bryanh/image/16...6/original.jpg
Oh, never updated on the alignment of the silver car. Took it to my nearest Big O in Madera for a free check. It was off, as I suspected. Their alignment was cheaper than my local Sears too. It drove great on the way home. Then I put a different set of wheels/tires on the car and the steering is way off. Strange happenings abound.
That sounds like worn bits - maybe balljoints or tie rods.
The car has had some play in the left front tie rod for ages. First time I've noticed this off-center steering with different tires. It's also the first time I've used these particular tires on the car.
It's completely nuts - I could swear I change wheels and/or tires on a bi weekly basis these days. It's a fricken revolving door of 350Z rolling stock around here. :lol:
P.S. - The Saab wagon in the photo above was left in there for you, Justin. ;)
I'm sure the Tire Rack stickers all over autocrossing windshields is not a coincidence.
Part of me laments the fact that I'm sure Goodyear has little to no presence in that enthusiast market (I have no actual knowledge past their disinterest in racing outside of stock cars). GET BACK ON THE HORSE AND BRING PRIDE TO OHIO!
Honestly, I was too busy staring at the Z to notice. IT'S SO PRETTY!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by CudaMan
I would have figured you could spot a Saab a mile away in a dark corner. :)
Keith, Goodyear owns Dunlop (more or less) and Dunlop has had some players in this market for some years.
NOT GOOD ENOUGH :mad:
Tirerack is the title sponsor of SCCA national-level autocrossing. If you participate in an SCCA national-level autocross, you run their windshield banner (or sticker, for cars not equipped with windshields). :)