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Thread: Nissan will build small RWD car based on IDx Concept

  1. #191
    Bad Taste novicius's Avatar
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    True, the builder on Subaru.com lists a 6-spd BRZ Limited + Performance Pack @ $30,500 USD. That's comparable to a base 370Z.

    Surprisingly enough, I couldn't find a 2017 BRZ vs 370Z vid on YouTube. Post 'em if you've got 'em.

  2. #192
    THE KING IN THE NORTH! TheBenior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by novicius View Post
    The Z looks decent on paper but apparently falls on its face in handling.
    An extra 400-900 lbs, higher forward weight distribution, and an engine with mass higher up may have that effect...

    I sat in this Miata while getting some hatch struts replaced under warranty at my closest Mazda dealer. Judging by the seat bolster wear, it's probably been sitting in the showroom for over a year. Maybe I'll be in the market in another year or two.

  3. #193
    Kindof interesting how the 370Z gets left behind being in the middle. Pony car enthusiasts would decry the lack of power and torque from the BR-S and MX-5 for similar money, and not care the pony car doesn't handle as well. Horses for courses. But the Z is an in-betweener. Jack of all, master of none. Sales are down partly because it's been around 8 years (or really 15 if you count the largely similar 350Z), and partly because the indirect competition has made a lot of progress in that time. A redesign/modernization is needed.

    It's one of the last remaining old school 2-seat sports coupes with a big NA engine and a real manual box. It's a darn good gearbox too - I don't think it gets enough credit. Of all the cars I've owned/driven, I only place the S2000 shift feel higher.

    Having read the MT article, it's not as discouraging as the headline. Still some of the comments are a little scary - short-sighted numbers-driven thinking. Renault-Nissan can certainly afford to invest in their heritage and passion with something that may be a loss leader for a while. It'll add a lot of value to the company as a whole. That kind of stuff is harder to quantify and numbers and justify to non-car-people in places of power.

  4. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by novicius View Post
    Surprisingly enough, I couldn't find a 2017 BRZ vs 370Z vid on YouTube. Post 'em if you've got 'em.
    The model years aren't current, but neither car has changed much...

    Chris Harris: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4

    Probably a bit unfair to the Z given it was on old tires and was a base model with open diff and narrower wheels. Also if it had quality coilovers, a nice exhaust and a Quaife LSD like the Cayman did, he probably would have liked the Z a lot more than he did.

  5. #195
    THE KING IN THE NORTH! TheBenior's Avatar
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    The 370Z had the misfortune of launching in 2009 when the housing market crash was in full swing. Sporty cars tend to sell on novelty with sales declining much more sharply than commuter cars. By the time the economy was recovering, the 370Z was over 4 years old.

    I agree that Nissan could afford to invest in their heritage. Mazda keeps the MX-5 around in spite of it cracking 10k US sales in 2017 for the first time since 2008. If tiny Mazda can develop an RWD platform for those paltry sales, Renault-Nissan could utilize existing hardware (like the VR30DDTT) to update the Z.

  6. #196
    Director Freude am Fahren's Avatar
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    This is one of those self-fulfilling prophecies, just like the current STi. Sales dwindle because they don't update it to compete with others, but they don't update it because sales aren't good enough to justify it. :facepalm:

  7. #197
    Bad Taste novicius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBenior View Post
    I agree that Nissan could afford to invest in their heritage. Mazda keeps the MX-5 around in spite of it cracking 10k US sales in 2017 for the first time since 2008. If tiny Mazda can develop an RWD platform for those paltry sales, Renault-Nissan could utilize existing hardware (like the VR30DDTT) to update the Z.
    The problem with the Z isn't power, it's apparently handling & refinement. Just sayin'.

  8. #198
    THE KING IN THE NORTH! TheBenior's Avatar
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    If they could be assed about to offer a 400 hp engine from the Infiniti Q50, they could also adapt other existing hardware like the optional active suspension and interior trim bits. This, would, of course, be part of an exterior redesign while the FM platform continues to soldier on.

  9. #199
    Bad Taste novicius's Avatar
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    Yeah but then it'd be a $50K Z vs a $30K one.

  10. #200
    They have options. Perhaps a non-turbo variant of the VR30 to keep costs down, or something. The platform is there, that's the easy part. It just isn't a priority, sadly.

    As for the current Z, handling is held back mainly by the VLSD, which is only effective if you have tires with very little grip. We're a decade or two past that point now. The lack of front camber is also a factor. Both of these things are easy fixes for either a new Z platform or by an enthusiast after the fact. I still get amazed at how well my 3100lb front-heavy top-heavy Z slaloms at the autox. The stiff springs and shocks help that a lot, too, but the overall point is you can add grip both front and rear with the camber and diff mods, and make the handling much much closer to world class by those things alone. The suspension geometry is very good, especially for the price, and the chassis is stiff. Steering feel at least in my 350s is very good, I'd rate it up there with anything modern and in fact IMHO it's better than the new MX-5's steering.

    I get angry at manufacturers for not doing simple things to realize more potential from a sports car chassis. Especially when there's very little if any downside. The MR2 Spyder was always begging for the 2ZZ and the TRD Sportivo suspension. It could have been a genuine Elise competitor with more every day comfort and for a lot less money. But noooooo.

    As for Mazda still selling the MX-5, two things: 1) they pin their entire brand on tactile driving involvement, so they darn well better have a halo car for that. 2) The days of hot-selling MX-5s are not all that long ago. It's a car that arguably saved the company in the not too distant past. The Z-car, on the other hand, has not had such market success since the 70s. That was a long time ago. Some (Z32, Z33) have sold fairly well, but not quite like hotcakes. The culture of the company has been changing. We need another Mr. K.

    P.S. - Every time I pine for a used Cayman S I'm reminded of how they're too stable. They won't even tuck the nose on lift-throttle. Understeer persists. Still, the idea has tempted me on occasion.

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