Gun control

[Godson]

You have mentioned that many military are pro 2A.

And what has that got to do with overthrowing a govt you don’t like?

We are not saying it’s “overthrow a govt that is repealing 2A”, just one that is bad and getting rid of democracy.
Hard to say where individuals would land on the topic. Easy to say “I’d be against it”, but if it comes because of terrorism and defending freedom it’s possible to sell it as a temporary (but ongoing) solution.

Scenario - Trump declares that outside powers have corrupted the electoral process, that the next election will be delayed a year while the issues are fixed. The other branches of govt have just enough support that it could happen.
Throw in a war against someone to keep fear up and justify the whole thing.
Now what?

Where would military people fall on this?
Does having a right to a gun help if your govt goes rogue?
How many supporters of the party/people taking control would support it because they don’t want the other side in power?

I don’t see a gun helping in this scenario. You just get labelled terrorist and others with guns would fight you.
The irony is that the most likely scenario people would use a gun against the govt is if they took away the right to have a gun.

Please read up on the 22nd amendment, then get back to me.

Also, the fact Trump was elected is proof the electoral process WORKS. No matter how much it pains me that bumbling baffoon is rapid firing tweets out, he is THE acting president.

[MR2 Fan]

Please read up on the 22nd amendment, then get back to me.

Also, the fact Trump was elected is proof the electoral process WORKS. No matter how much it pains me that bumbling baffoon is rapid firing tweets out, he is THE acting president.

You mean with the tons of gerrymandered districts, voting machines that are a different kind in every area and cause confusion and don't forget the 2000 race....plus a national electoral process where there is no such thing as 1 vote per person?

[drew]

pfft, details.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Please read up on the 22nd amendment, then get back to me.

Also, the fact Trump was elected is proof the electoral process WORKS. No matter how much it pains me that bumbling baffoon is rapid firing tweets out, he is THE acting president.

I don't think DN doesn't know about term limits. He's just saying that in the event that Trump declares some sort of emergency that legally delays elections. After he served 8 year terms, there's still no election taking place to replace him. How would 22A work then? Even if the military forcibly kicks him out, who will the military install as new president?

Anyway, DN's more interested in knowing how will 2A help in that situation. I think in the event some evil dictator corrupts the US government, we can't really count on 22A to continue to function. 2A also probably will be taken away too, but at least guns are already in people's hands.

My take is that should the military continues to assume the evil dictator as "acting" president, then it's time to take matters into our own hands.

[balki]

NYC mayor has similar two 4-year term limits yet Michael Bloomberg served three terms (12 years) using ...
... an amendment /queue dramatic telenovela close-up

[Dicknose]

You have to be more specific, how much is plenty? Is USA overall moving humanity forward or backwards?

Its doing both.
Its a huge economy and moving many things forward due to sheer money and resources.
Its also one of the most backward and least progressive western countries.

From 13 colonies, USA became a global leader in couple of hundred years. It'd be interesting to see in couple of hundred more... where US will be compared to the Scandinavian countries. Even with crazies such as Trump leading this nation, I believe there's a good chance US will continue to lead the world. I just don't see other governments setup as well as the US.

Nothing to do with how well the govt is setup.
The US is a power due to sheer size.
China and India will start to threaten that in the next 50 to 100 years.

[Dicknose]

Please read up on the 22nd amendment, then get back to me.

Also, the fact Trump was elected is proof the electoral process WORKS. No matter how much it pains me that bumbling baffoon is rapid firing tweets out, he is THE acting president.

What Im interested in is... the logic that if someone does break the system that an armed population will fix it.
The logic that 2A is about defending against your own govt gone rogue.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Its doing both.
Its a huge economy and moving many things forward due to sheer money and resources.
Its also one of the most backward and least progressive western countries.

That's possible. Just like financially the rich are getting richer, but the poor are getting poorer. However, I'm talking standard of living here. Is that ticking upwards or downwards over time? It's possible that governments are covering up deflation, but at least personal experience tells me that although raises are small, but I am getting raises! I couldn't drive EVs before, now I can drive one.

I also believe overall, US is leading and pushing humanity slightly in the right direction... eventhough there can be fuckups like financial meltdown... overall, US should still be a positive influence.

US is also one of the most 'conservative' or 'Christian' western nations. I do believe often times liberals tend to like to call that 'backwards'.

Nothing to do with how well the govt is setup.
The US is a power due to sheer size.
China and India will start to threaten that in the next 50 to 100 years.

China and India's have way longer history and way more people to be awesome nations. Yeah, dictator Xi may lead China to an unprecedented prosperity, but unless a nation's king is named Jesus, which king in human history do you know was incorruptible? Even if Xi built China up during his lifetime, there's also no guarantee the next dictator can keep the momentum going.

If we can have a US-like government system in China or India, they don't have to wait 50 to 100 years to beat the US. They would've been way ahead long time ago. Utilizing cheap American labor to build their i-flyingcars or something.

Of course it's not all form of government. Culture surely makes a difference too... since things are 'amendable'. Do a good job of amending it, things will get better. Otherwise, the government slowly gets more and more corrupted. Who knows, after thousands of years of Chinese history, they may end up exactly where they are now I suppose, but I kinda doubt that Chinese and Indians can be that stupid..., but who knows. Founding fathers did also planned for the worst. Things can always go wrong... When it fail to work as intended, what last resort option will people have?

What Im interested in is... the logic that if someone does break the system that an armed population will fix it.
The logic that 2A is about defending against your own govt gone rogue.

To me, 2A just makes having a revolution easier. It'll be extremely difficult to successfully overthrow a corrupt govt without arms.
To you, you just can't believe a bunch of crazy stupid Billis and Roofers could even get the job done.
To Godson, not all possessors of guns are crazy stupid and incompetent like Billi though.

[Rare White Ape]

The idea of needing to overthrow an out of control government in the USA is an outdated one anyway. The reasons for it have moved on from what they were hundreds of years ago when 2A was drawn up. I’m inclined to believe that the logic behind it was flawed from the get-go, but I’ve only a limited understanding of its genesis so I won’t push that argument.

But moving on to my point; the US government gets overthrown all the time. It’s called an election. You get to pick who you want to make the decisions for the next term.

And if you don’t like the person in charge? Well, the majority voted for them, so why do you need guns? You’ll just frame yourself as an outsider to what the rest of the country wanted, and you'll end up on the wrong side of 2A where citizens may use their rightfully held arms in defence of the state.

[Crazed_Insanity]

As long as we have elections, nobody's proposing we shoot up DJT. Definitely need to respect election outcome, even if he won without popular vote. Even with Russian meddling, he still won fair and square. No indication of Russians altering vote counts or anything like that...

As long as he is truly elected into office by the free will of enough # of people, he is by definition not a dictator. Not saying we need to overthrow a government just because I disagree with or don't like the person(s) in charge. That's not the reason for having 2A.

I'm talking about when you know elections are rigged or completely eliminated. When you know the constitution is mutilated and disrespected by those running the government. Then what do you do?

When you know you're dealing with an evil empire, either you just accept and live with that, or you must take up arms to fight it, right? Unless we all know kungfu like Neo, I don't see what other options we have.

You think peaceful demonstration in Tienanmen Square worked out well for the Chinese people?