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Thread: Gun control

  1. #1491
    What does the Bat say? Jason's Avatar
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    Sure it's a right, but it was also at one point, a right to own people (as inferred in the original constitution), so "taking away a right" isn't wholly new. Separately an Amendment has been repealed before*. IMO, there's nothing wrong with pursuing a removal of the 2nd Amendment on principle.

    * ironically, prohibition

    As far as my own opinion on it, I'd love for us to have a gun free society, but at this point it's pretty impractical. We aren't there socially, there's way too many people who still very much love guns here. Supply wise, there's just way too many out there to "find them all". There's just no way to get there right now without it being a bloodbath at the hands of a fascist government, and no reasonable person wants that.

    Realistically, we absolutely can do more to improve people's lives so that they don't turn to violence. Better social safety nets, better healthcare, higher minimum wages, more accessible education, etc would do a lot of good. But, again, we're not there socially yet, but I think we will be in the near future. A lot of people are scared of anything remotely considered "socialism", but I do think most people generally wish their neighbors well, we just need to figure out a way to "sell" it to the masses better. I'd also like to see guns treated like cars. I know, I know, cars aren't a right, so it's not the "same", but let's be real... if you operate something that is dangerous, usually you should be licensed and insured in some fashion, it just seems like the responsible thing to do and we, as a society accept that idea in many ways currently.

  2. #1492
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodint View Post
    the anti-2A crowd keeps taking
    That's 'cause lots of innocent people keep being killed.

  3. #1493
    Dead Brand Ambassador dodint's Avatar
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    I wouldn't oppose a 2A repeal via Constructional Amendment. That's the process at work. Proposing more unconstitutional gun laws while ignoring the ones on the books not being enforced is a waste of time and resources.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    That's 'cause lots of innocent people keep being killed.
    Lots? Debeatable. Violent gun death is a very rare occurance. As long as we're being disingenuous I will dust off the old 'ban cars' trope if the sanctity of life is your genuine motivator. They're absolute killers.

  4. #1494
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    It's common enough right now that we don't seem to be able to get past the "it's too soon to politicize this" stage before the next one happens.

    What's interesting is that language, that law-abiding gun owners have done all these things but the anti-2A crowd keeps taking. Like it's this contrived plan to just make life difficult for gun owners, and has nothing to do with people wanting to try to stop people from being shot to death. The fact that you think that I'm being disingenuous because I don't want to see schoolkids get shot is troubling. What do you think my real motivation is?

    But, to go back to the car thing, I'd like to see it be way harder to get a license, way easier to lose one's license, and for us to take driving and the law a hell of a lot more seriously in this country, and then regulate guns just as much as that. A hell of a lot of people are allowed to drive cars right now that shouldn't be allowed to.

  5. #1495
    What does the Bat say? Jason's Avatar
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    Not only that, we've regulated the way cars are made and roads are designed over and over and over for the sake of improving safety for the general public, so "we've already regulated enough" isn't really an argument in terms of guns, imo.

    As far as failures to uphold current laws, I absolutely agree that needs to be worked on as well.

  6. #1496
    What does the Bat say? Jason's Avatar
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  7. #1497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    A lot of people are scared of anything remotely considered "socialism"
    What it means in practice, starving?

  8. #1498
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    The USA has a complicated history with socialism, partly due to the scare of communism and a long Cold War, partly due to the ideal of freedom to be a self made rich person.
    But first world countries that are relatively socialist often top lists of best places to live.
    It can help with things like gun crime by giving most people better support and opportunity. Lots of gun crime is by people who are (or were) living below the poverty line. Oddly this is not true for mass shooters, they tend to be middle class.

    China is socialist, but also communist.
    But socialist countries include the Scandinavia countries, New Zealand and Canada. As I said - ones that often top lists of best places to live.

  9. #1499
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    It is interesting that on one hand there are propagandists who will happily remind us that the Nazis were socialists, then immediately jump on board with the idea that we really should be letting more Norwegians immigrate here.

  10. #1500
    THE KING IN THE NORTH! TheBenior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dicknose View Post
    The USA has a complicated history with socialism, partly due to the scare of communism and a long Cold War, partly due to the ideal of freedom to be a self made rich person.
    But first world countries that are relatively socialist often top lists of best places to live.
    It can help with things like gun crime by giving most people better support and opportunity. Lots of gun crime is by people who are (or were) living below the poverty line. Oddly this is not true for mass shooters, they tend to be middle class.

    China is socialist, but also communist.
    But socialist countries include the Scandinavia countries, New Zealand and Canada. As I said - ones that often top lists of best places to live.
    All of those countries are barely socialist these days, with minimal if any collective ownership of the means of production. They're capitalist with strong social safety nets (relative to the US), except for China, which is closer to state capitalism.

    Mass shooters in the US also only tend to be middle class if you group the vast majority of incidents with multiple people shot into the category of 'gang violence.'

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