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Thread: Gun control

  1. #1251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freude am Fahren View Post


    The NRA, folks.
    Saw one of the suggested videos after the above posted video.



    I think the Sheriff next to the NRA spokeswoman made the most sense.

    But to be somewhat fair to that NRA biatch, existing laws are lacking as well. Why is it okay for states or arm services to NOT report convicts and mental folks to the federal database used to do background checks? If States just don't have to budget to input the data, then background checks should include combing thru data from all 50 states rather then relying on incomplete federal data.

    Nick Cruz shouldn't be able to legally purchase that gun!

    Anyway, NRA should've exercised their lobbying power to get that federal mandate to make sure states and armed forces report these things. It just might have avoided this particular tragedy and get liberals off their asses.

    Of course, regardless of what kind of laws are passed, there could still be failures... such as FBI dropping the ball, frozen sheriff waiting outside until the shooting is done... Even with a ban passed, there's no guarantee that we can prevent the next vegas shooter.

    But anyway, we should've been able to prevent Nick Cruz or saved more lives... that was just some sort of perfect storm... I bet if his mom survived the flu this tragedy probably won't happen... sigh...
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; February 23rd, 2018 at 12:58 PM.

  2. #1252
    High Plains Luddite George's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaultyMario View Post
    If we accept this graph to be a valid representation of The US:

    Have you a link where I can read more about that? I see it came from businessinsider.com but I can't seem to find the accompanying article.

    Thanks.

  3. #1253
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    Yes it is a male problem, but other country have males facing very similar issues.
    I think it’s a culture problem - and it’s a gun culture. Not just the desire to own guns, but that guns = power and control.
    This culture is ingrained and goes very deep.
    It was mentioned in the politics thread that teaches are the unsung heroes.
    Teachers might be the unsung heroes, but do you know who is held up as the heroes in the USA?
    Military personnel.

    Go to a ball game, they ask past and present military to stand and everyone applauds. They are offered preferential treatment at many places.
    Yes it is a tough job and they run a risk of death or injury. But it is amazing just how much they are applauded in the US vs most other western nations.
    I think much of this is to keep a good flow of people coming into a very large military. But it also helps reinforce the “Wild West” notion that guns = power. The USA is powerful because it has the best military. You will be powerful to defend yourself if you have a gun. You will be powerful to make a statement if you have a gun.

    There is a huge culture of worship of guns that is pretty much exclusive to USA. Much of it is subtle to those brought up with it, but much more shocking to those from outside.
    Is it any wonder when the country as a whole prides itself in “force is power” that individuals respond the same way?

    Laws might help. Restrict guns, better checks etc. They can help.
    But unless as a country you start a culture change away from worshipping the power of the gun, the problem will remain.
    Because it’s an illusion, all these guns are not making the average person more powerful, it’s making them powerless when their friends and family are killed, injured or even just threatened.

  4. #1254
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    DN nails it.

  5. #1255
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    Have you a link where I can read more about that? I see it came from businessinsider.com but I can't seem to find the accompanying article.

    Thanks.
    That's a newer version of the ideas contained in "The Nine Nations of North America." The general idea is that the different regions of the US were settled by and had their cultures invented/imported by different groups of people who adapted to their separate environments and resources in different ways. It's a concept that a lot of human geographers and other social scientists find to be pretty valid in a lot of scenarios.
    -Formerly Stabulator

  6. #1256
    Director Freude am Fahren's Avatar
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    Well said, DN.

    Somewhat surprisingly, Our governor here in Florida, Rick Scott, one of the more conservative (as in gung-ho guns and bible pandering, more so than real conservatism) governors announced some thing today, including changing gun laws such as the age to buy a gun from 18 to 21, and preventing people with mental issues from getting guns. It includes something about anyone can provide a sworn statement saying this person is dangerous, and then they would be barred from buying guns (of course with penalties for lying).

    I have to give credit to a man to whom I never have. It is a big step in the right direction considering who he is, and the state I live in. But there is a long way to go.

    That said, I don't think his words mean anything legal, and it will be up to legislature to enact these laws. So we'll see. Maybe he can enact executive powers or something.

    He has had an A+ rating with the NRA. We'll see if that stays.

  7. #1257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dicknose View Post
    Yes it is a male problem, but other country have males facing very similar issues.
    I think it’s a culture problem - and it’s a gun culture. Not just the desire to own guns, but that guns = power and control.
    This culture is ingrained and goes very deep.
    It was mentioned in the politics thread that teaches are the unsung heroes.
    Teachers might be the unsung heroes, but do you know who is held up as the heroes in the USA?
    Military personnel.

    Go to a ball game, they ask past and present military to stand and everyone applauds. They are offered preferential treatment at many places.
    Yes it is a tough job and they run a risk of death or injury. But it is amazing just how much they are applauded in the US vs most other western nations.
    I think much of this is to keep a good flow of people coming into a very large military. But it also helps reinforce the “Wild West” notion that guns = power. The USA is powerful because it has the best military. You will be powerful to defend yourself if you have a gun. You will be powerful to make a statement if you have a gun.

    There is a huge culture of worship of guns that is pretty much exclusive to USA. Much of it is subtle to those brought up with it, but much more shocking to those from outside.
    Is it any wonder when the country as a whole prides itself in “force is power” that individuals respond the same way?

    Laws might help. Restrict guns, better checks etc. They can help.
    But unless as a country you start a culture change away from worshipping the power of the gun, the problem will remain.
    Because it’s an illusion, all these guns are not making the average person more powerful, it’s making them powerless when their friends and family are killed, injured or even just threatened.
    This is exactly my thinking. Bravo.

    Don't even ask me about American Foreign policy coz you'll go away thinking i'm a madman or reassessing everything you know about America.

    For the record, the most noble professions are (in my uneducated and unesteemed opinion) teaching, and the caring of other human beings.
    Last edited by neanderthal; February 23rd, 2018 at 05:47 PM.

  8. #1258
    Ask me about my bottom br
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    Aquí está , Jorge.
    acket.

  9. #1259
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    DN definitely nailed it. Culture change will take some time...

    Thumbs up to Gov Rick Scott.

    Will the current gun culture embrace him or shred him to pieces remains to be seen, but it's certainly a step in the right direction, fingers crossed.

  10. #1260
    Expert daydreamer SkylineObsession's Avatar
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    Have been trying to avoid this topic as i know my opinions may rub people the wrong way.

    As an outsider i honestly see similarities between the USA and all the middle eastern/European countries that are always at war/bombing each other etc. The only difference really being that the USA is a much more advanced country that still manages to have a government and law enforcement etc that can keep relative control of things, so that cities aren't being bombarded every few days.

    It's the fact that people like me in the USA can walk around with (state dependant)/have all sorts of guns in our houses and it's deemed as 'normal'. To an outsider, in a country with really strict gun control laws like NZ, it's really bewildering and shocking that many Americans consider it 'normal/necessary'. Like it honestly makes me compare it to the war torn countries. USA just looks a lot nicer and still has a decent law enforcement/less trigger happy government.

    Don't bash me for saying this, as it's just how things seem from over this side of the world.

    Admittedly when we were in the USA last year the only people we saw with guns were police officers, and only in the airport at Houston (?) and the officers in Times Square. But because that's not what we see every day, the media gives us the impression that things are pretty mental (even though we've been there and remember it differently). Personally i'm pretty sure i've never even picked up a real gun.

    I don't think it'll change much, but i'm pleased to see so many big companies like Chubb, Hertz, United, Delta etc drop support for the NRA and hope it continues to a point where something civilised starts to happen - like better restrictions/checks/requirements etc to purchase/own a gun. Assault rifles though should be goneburger to the public, because there is no fvcking need at all to have them in a civilised country! It's bloody absurd!

    And don't get me started on the 'amendment right' to own a gun (or whatever it is). That was probably fine back in the day when guns took a good minute or so to load and there were civil wars all over the place, but in a first world civilised country it just seems backwards and bizzare. In my (and other New Zealanders i know) opinion.

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