Politics II (was: State of our Gran Turismo)

[Crazed_Insanity]

Hey not my fault!

Anyway, why do we need to rename this thread, is that what people wanted?

I thought some just want it merged or locked? Or kindly remind folks to cease political discussions?

Maybe this can be an exercise for empathic discussion? Whatever you're against, can you try to step into their shoes?

For example, Neanderthal can pretend to be a white king and think about what he will do for all the black people in his kingdom? Is there really a simple solution?

We most definitely don't need another same old politics thread.

So I suggest we rename this thread 'empathic discussions'. If you refuse to think about others, you can go vent under the original politics thread.

[Kchrpm]

The way you slowly get rid of racism (because there is no fast way) in a system and a people is you make them realize where it was happening when they weren't even thinking about it. You make them stare it in the face, realize what it looks like, and then they have to choose to actively avoid it. It's not about taking away guns, it's about making people realize that their knee jerk reaction to someone of a different color should not overcome the fact that person is a human being just like them, with their own struggles, successes, family, and friends.

Then as racist actions and words are thought but then questioned internally rather than being done or said, children and peers don't see or hear them. They are less likely to have those thoughts, because they have little reason to (especially if they grow up in a diverse environment). When they ask questions or make questionable assumptions, they should be taught appropriately.

It doesn't require minorities being in charge of everything, it requires people deciding that they will honestly evaluate their own thoughts, and what they've been taught directly and indirectly from their family, friends and life experiences. That's just as tough, though.

[Godson]

Yes, apprehension vs racism are also completely different things.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, Kchrpm, not saying blacks absolutely have to take over everything in order for us to change, but just an empathic exercise for Neanderthal that if he no longer has to fight for it, if he actually has to power to do something about it, what would he do?

Racism is indeed a tough nut to crack... And there might be other issues as well. I've seen a social experiment video of dressing up a kid as a homeless vs dressing her up nicely and let her alone in the streets and people's reaction to her was amazingly inappropriate...

Anyway, I hope Neanderthal will realize that hatred and guns can on add more problems than solving them. Civil rights movement had a clearer and more achievable objective, change the laws to treat us like human beings please! As for BLM, what can white people or the politicians do to fix things quickly?

I can only think of removing all white cops from black neighborhoods for now to eliminate the racial elements... Until we have all officers retrained to not react too harshly against minority or mentality-illed suspects...

Of course in the mean time, my 'solution' might cause black communities to not have enough cops to maintain order...

Point is that I don't think there are any quick and easy fixes. Hatred and gun will only make things worse, right Neanderthal?

[neanderthal]

Billi, thanks, but fuck off. I don't need to realise anything. You don't know me. You don't know my life. You don't know my struggle. You don't know what I hate. You don't get to frame what I like or hate.

[Crazed_Insanity]

So please you frame it for yourself. Explain to yourself why your way is the best and most effective way for our kids' future. Heck, fuck my kids, just think of your own kids' future.

Of course, we also need white folks to know how you feel too. Not trying to say its right for white folks or for me to ignore your feelings...

Without mutual understanding things will only deteriorate further.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Okay, was really inclined to just let the point I was arguing for go, but after hearing my pastor preaching about political polarization last Sunday, I felt the desire to carry this discussion further...

Good thing we have 2 political threads so I won't contaminate the official one. If nobody here wish to discuss this with me further, then of course we can just let this thread drop.

Anyway, my pastor's sermon was naturally directed toward Christians, he was saying we all can naturally take on certain personal political positions; however, should we really be so disgusted by our political oppositions to the point that you think that they can all just goto hell? This is clearly not something Christ would want for he's here to save all, not just to save your half of the population who agrees with you.

Yes, clearly most of you are not Christians, so I’d like to examine this same point on a more secular level. Let's just stick to politics in general and not dwell on any specific issues or any of Billi’s personal shit for the past 150 years… because I want to avoid being side tracked again...

Political ideology is clearly adopted by choice whether if you're left or right leaning or just sitting on the fence. Yes, you could be born on one side and therefore you end up leaning on that side, but there are also plenty of cases where people can make a choice to venture out to the other side...

So my point is that should we really be SO disgusted by our political oppositions to the point of never cooperating with them? Such as blocking/protesting/deriding everything that they propose or do because I know I’m right because facts are with me and I know I can’t possibly be wrong and they are absolutely wrong!

I think our nation’s at a point like we’re a disillusioned couple ready to get a divorce...

Should our nation just get a divorce or separate? Just give up the idea of a united states… That might be the easiest solution to our current problem, but is that really our best solution?

Can liberals and conservative get some sort of ‘marriage counseling’ in order to get along better? Or are we better off with a ‘divorce’?

Of course I personally want some sort of 'marriage counseling' and to be able to work things out, but perhaps Abraham Lincoln's desire to preserve the union of a bunch of states with conflicting interests just wasn't a good one?

What would you do if you're the Abraham Lincoln of modern day America?

[Rikadyn]

Well given that the states the seceded from the Union are now the poorest states most dependent on Government aide to stay afloat...

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, not all southern states are poor and not all northern states are rich:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/samantha.../#1254594c5b03

Also, considering that more blacks are migrating back to southern states..., surely they were not attracted by KKK's southern hospitality, but by the economic pulls of the region. Maybe black folks are just sick of the cold weather of the north, but then again California has been steadily losing black folks to southern states too. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...rsal/21818127/

Maybe some southern states won't survive without federal dollars, but if the south forms their own union, I'm sure the richer southern states will be able to pick up the slack.

Anyway, so you think it's best to just 'divorce'?

[Kchrpm]

I think a lot of the people moving south are moving to places like Atlanta where there is already a large number of like-minded (and like-colored) individuals*, kind of like how a lot of trendy/hipster/whatever people move to Austin or Portland. "The South" and "The North" are not ubiquitous places that we can assign an entire mindset or situation to.

*This is based on the discussions I've seen and heard between friends on if/why they should move to Atlanta, including the idea (I've never checked the numbers) that black women largely outnumber black men and therefore a black man with a job can do quite well in that department.