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Thread: George's Guitar Emporium

  1. #1
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    George's Guitar Emporium

    Figured I'd restart the thread.

    However, my question I think is more guitar related. I finally got tired of my strings breaking all the damn time, so I picked up some 10s rather than some 9s. Specifically, I got some Ernie Ball Cobalts and then some D'Addario strings, since everyone told me how great they are. So far they're okay, but I'm noticing two things that I didn't seem to get with the 9's:

    1) When I retune the low E string, it throws all the other strings off. If I detune to D from E, for instance, all the other strings go sharp. Goes the other way if I tighten the low E back up to E from D. Makes changing tunings a tremendous pain in the ass. Is this normal, or is it because it's a cheap guitar with a crappy neck? Is this something I can make it stop doing so much?

    2) I'm noticing that the game always says I miss any harmonic on the 7th fret. Seems to pick up 12th and 5th just fine, but 7th never registers. I'm assuming that this means I need to fiddle with the intonation, but I wanted to make sure before I start doing something stupid.

  2. #2
    High Plains Luddite George's Avatar
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    Tom, you wrench on bikes, right? If so, setting up a guitar isn't a big deal. Sure, the tolerances are tighter but adjustments are adjustments.

    I've been assembling and setting up Fender-style (bolt-on-neck) guitars and basses from parts as a sometimes hobby for fun and the occasional tiny profit for years. It's not rocket surgery but like anything else, it takes time and practice.

    Suggestion: get one of Dan Erlewine's books about how to set up guitars. Short of refretting or cutting and slotting a new bone nut (which your guitar probably needs - most do IMO, even 'spensive ones), you can do just about everything yourself without specialized tools beyond a set of allen wrenches and a soldering iron. Nut slots require expensive files and lots of experience using them, so I pay a pro to do that. And I mean a professional guitar tech, not a kid at Guitar Center. More on that later if you wish.

    You say you're breaking strings. Where? At the saddles? At the nut? Always the same string(s), or do they all let go when you start your Pete Townshend windmilling?

    "When I retune the low E string, it throws all the other strings off. If I detune to D from E, for instance, all the other strings go sharp."

    I'm guessing you're playing a Strat or similar with a vibrato bridge. If not, I'll be very surprised, but if not I have some tips there if your truss rod is so loose that your neck is like wet spaghetti. If you're playing a Strat-style, this is really easy to fix. Try this test: Plug in and turn up (or do this in a quiet room). Finger a note on any string in the middle of the neck - I don't mean a middle string, necessarily, but at the middle frets - somewhere around the 12th is fine. Any string. We'll call this String #1.

    You're not going to pluck this string, but you are going to bend it with your left hand (assuming you play right-handed) here in a second. Now pluck any other string and let it ring. Let that note ring and sustain while bending String #1. Bend it up a whole step (two frets) if you can. While doing this, listen to the string that you plucked that is ringing. Does that string change pitch? I betcha it does on your Strat.

    (Boy, will I be humbled if you have a fixed bridge. But that's okay.)

    Let me know what kind of guitar you have, the kind of bridge, and the result of this experiment, and I'll be glad to help at whatever level of verbosity you'd like.

    For your question number 2, when you play the 7th fret harmonic when you're not hooked up to Rocksmith, does it sound nice and loud like the 5th and 12th fret harmonics do? If so, it's the game and not your guitar. I've only heard about Rocksmith so I can't help there but it's either your technique or however Rocksmith picks up the notes you play.

    Harmonics have nothing to do with intonation. Okay, if you're trying to play a melody with harmonics on multiple strings, of course you want them in tune, but in terms of making them sound at the 7th fret, they should do that just fine at whatever pitch the string is tuned to, unless your intonation is so incredibly far off that the guitar always sounds out of tune when you play anything - not just harmonics.

  3. #3
    Senior Member animalica's Avatar
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    Attachment 110

    Last year I bought a bass because 4 thick strings are easier to handle than six thin strings.
    Until a few days ago I had no time to try it out but now it`s much easier.

    Next week my retraining starts and I will also take the bass with me.

    This afternoon I will buy a used 32" LCD so I can play, work with my laptop and watch tv.
    Only need to find a cheap used compact stereo so I can play Rocksmith 2014 lag free.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Wow, George, thanks for all of that! You are correct, it's a Squier bullet, so strat style. When I'm breaking strings, it's almost always up at the bridge. It's generally the high E or B string, though occasionally it's D. It just seems to happen here and there, it doesn't seem to be specifically related to trying to rock particularly hard (last time was during the single-note part of Radiohead's "High and Dry", which is not a particularly crazy song by any means.

    The 7th fret harmonic rings out nice and loud. I'm thinking that it might not be ringing out with quite the right tone, so RS isn't detecting that I'm playing it right. I do know that RS is "hearing" it, it's aware that there's a noise, I think it just thinks it's the wrong noise. This did not used to be an issue with the 9s. As is, it basically thinks that I'm completely useless at playing the beginning of Jeremy. Maybe I should put 9s on it again next time I change the strings and see if that fixes that.

    As far as the bone nut, how often does that need to be replaced? It's a shitty guitar, but it's also only about two years old.

    Not entirely certain what type of bridge, but it looks basically identical to this one: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-D71W3OUeEE...point-trem.jpg

    I'll do the test you mentioned later on today, I'm not near the guitar at the moment, and I'll let you know how that goes. Thanks for your help!

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    Did the experiment and you're totally right. I don't know that I followed instructions exactly, but I bent the low E a full step around the 12th fret after picking the B string. The tone changed probably a good half step.

  6. #6
    High Plains Luddite George's Avatar
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    Cool. Now grab a small phillips screwdriver and remove the six screws holding the plastic plate to the back of the guitar. I like to put the screws and the plate in a zip-lock baggie so I don't lose them while I'm setting up a Strat.

    Behold three springs (you might have as many as five, but you probably have three) going from the "block" of the bridge (where you insert strings) to the "claw" that is screwed into the body on the other side of the rectangular cavity in the guitar body.

    Keeping a Strat-style guitar in tune is a delicate balance of strings vs. springs. That's why this happens:

    When I retune the low E string, it throws all the other strings off. If I detune to D from E, for instance, all the other strings go sharp. Goes the other way if I tighten the low E back up to E from D.
    I'm in the process of writing more about this. The good news is you don't have any problems that millions of Strat owners haven't had to learn about before.

    While I type about guitar setups instead of working much on this lazy Friday morning in a nearly abandoned office, here is some reading for you:

    http://www.fender.com/support/articl...r-setup-guide/

  7. #7
    High Plains Luddite George's Avatar
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    When I'm breaking strings, it's almost always up at the bridge. It's generally the high E or B string, though occasionally it's D.
    This is usually a bigger problem with Gibson-style guitars with Tune-O-Matic bridges. Here’s a pic. See how the saddles are pointy triangles with a sharp edge where the strings rest? Ouch.



    These saddles can saw right through a string as you play and the string vibrates and moves around on the saddle. Consider that when you bend strings (or even grip them to make a chord), the string slides forward on the saddle and when you release, they slide back. That string movement at the saddle isn’t really visible to the eye, but it happens, and it weakens the string where the rubbing occurs. Also, strings stretch as they age. This is why when you re-string your guitar, it’s hard to keep in tune for a while until the strings stretch out and “settle in”.

    Of course Gibson saddles work just fine when properly set up, but I thought a picture of those saddles might illustrate the point (“point” – get it? I crack myself up!) better than when you have on your Strat. Stratocaster bridges have kinder, gentler saddles with a nice curve for the string to rest on, so theoretically they shouldn’t cause string breakage as often, but as you know, it can happen.

    I suggest the next time you change strings or one breaks, take some very fine sandpaper and lightly sand the part of each saddle that the string rests on. You don’t need to go crazy here and blitz all the chrome off the saddles, but just make sure there are no burrs from the manufacturing process. These things are most likely stamped out at high speed in some Chinese factory and they might not all be as smooth as glass. Make sure they’re as smooth as can be and that, hopefully, will stop the strings from breaking at the saddles.

    You’ll still break one every once in a while, especially if you leave them on a long time. Metal fatigues from wear and eventually the thinner strings (especially the unwound E, B, and G strings) will pop if they get ancient, or if you play with metal fingerpicks, or if you’re a wildman on stage. Personal body chemistry (the acid in your skin/sweat) can play a role too, but string breakage should be very rare when the guitar is properly “set up”.

    More to follow...

  8. #8
    High Plains Luddite George's Avatar
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    Not entirely certain what type of bridge…


    That’s called a “vintage-style Strat bridge”. What makes it vintage-style? Six screws attaching the front of the bridge to the body (these are what the bridge pivots on when you use the bar) and thin, stamped steel saddles.

    For comparison, and just to increase your guitar vocabulary, here’s a “modern-style Strat bridge”.



    Note the modern bridges have two screws as pivot points and block saddles. There are many variations on both these bridge designs. Just like with bicycle parts, everyone is trying to build a better mousetrap, but these are the two basic styles of Strat bridges to use as a standard for comparison.

    Don’t worry about vintage vs. modern – both have their pros and cons, depending on who you ask. Your bridge is perfectly fine and is the very same one used by everyone from Buddy Holly to Jimi Hendrix to Stevie Ray Vaughan to millions of players still today (including me, not that that matters).

    Notice in that picture of the modern style bridge the back of the bridge is “floating” above the body. That’s important, and I’m going to talk more about that later.

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    Heh, well, now that I look at that, the modern does look more like mine. Not sure that mine's floating though, that's not something I've noticed. Will take a picture of the actual bridge later.

    I think I need to track down some sandpaper. I do most of my playing on weekend mornings, usually an hour or two. Then I don't do a lot during the week, sadly. Despite that, I've had times where I break a string every weekend. That seems excessive. On average, I'd say I break a string at least once every three weeks. Hoping I can stop doing that.

    Thanks for writing all this up!

  10. #10
    High Plains Luddite George's Avatar
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    Sure thing! It's fun to write. Don't take a pic of the bridge just for my benefit - the type of saddles or number of pivot screws don't really matter in terms of setting it up for what you need. I started writing a bunch of stuff about nuts and how critical they are for a good setup and will hopefully be able to post that later. I do have to do some work at times, sadly.

    About floating bridges: I hope you’ve taken off the back plate and have seen the block, spring, and claw relationship. If you’re going to be drop tuning your low E string frequently, I recommend you tighten the claw further into the body to pull the back of the bridge down so it’s flush with the body. This is called “decking” the bridge. Done correctly, this will let you push down on the whammy bar but not pull up. In addition to tighening the claw, you can also add more springs (up to five) to have even more tension. I have several extra and would be happy to put them in an envelope and mail them to you if want some extras.

    Here’s how to tell if you have decked the bridge enough to keep it in tune but not so much that you can never use the whammy bar - unless you don’t want to use the bar at all. You’ll probably want to be plugged into a good tuner for this. You won’t need an amp.

    Tune the guitar – all strings. Now detune the low E to D and check tuning of all strings. The five you didn’t change should be exactly in tune as they were before. Now bring the low D back up to E. Again, nothing should change. Can you still press down on the bar when you want to? That’s about right. If it's too loose, either screw the claw farther into the body and/or add springs. Too tight? Do the reverse.

    Another test is this awesome-sounding but super-easy country lick. This is one reason that Telecasters are popular among country players – the fixed bridge lets you play multiple strings while bending one (or more) without having the unbent strings them all go flat. Try this on a Strat with a floating bridge and it will go flat and sound awful. But if you have a Tele or a decked Strat bridge (or a Les Paul, etc.), the E and B strings will not go flat when you bend the G string here. Let all notes ring as you play this:

    E-------12--------------------------------------------------
    B--------------12-------------------------------------------
    G-----------------------11 (bend to 13)-----------------
    D-------------------------------------------------------------
    A-------------------------------------------------------------
    E-------------------------------------------------------------

    You can also play that as a chord instead of an arpeggio if you like. I used this all the time, all over the neck. The note on the high E string is your chord.

    To verify this with your tuner, pluck either the E or B string so you can watch the tuner to see if they go flat as you bend the G string. Once you can play licks like this all over the neck AND detune your E string when necessary AND press down on the bar when necessary, it’s decked “just right” – not too tight and not too loose.

    Personal opinion on whammy bar guitars: I play Telecasters primarily and use a bar maybe once a year when I pick up whatever cheap Strat I’ve scored recently in a craigslist trade – I’ve gotten a couple Squiers recently by trading for cheap effects pedals, but that’s another story.

    IMO, whammy bars are great for Eddie Van Halen style playing (he uses a Floyd Rose, which is different animal than what’s on your Strat) and of course for surf music but uncessary for 99.9% of other guitar playing - but that’s just me. I realize whammy bars (or “talent levers”, as they are sometimes sarcastically referred to) are a powerful inducement when shopping – I mean, why buy less when you can have more? But, like everything else, there are tradeoffs, and what you lose with a whammy bar is tuning stability…or perhaps better said: tuning stability without knowing a lot about how to keep a Strat in tune. That’s not my opinion – that’s fact.

    Oh, and does your whammy bar wobble when you screw it in? Wrap a few turns of teflon tape (in the plumbing aisle at the hardware store for a buck or less for a roll) around the threads of the bar before you screw it in.

    Better yet, deck your bridge and toss that bar in the guitar case until you’ve learned more about playing guitar and staying in tune.

    Final suggestion, just for fun: once, before you deck your bridge forever and throw that bar in the trash, try this: Crank up your amp. Switch to the highest gain channel you have or step on your overdrive/distortion pedal. Turn the volume knob on the guitar down about halfway. “Dump” the bar, meaning press it down almost to the body of the guitar and grab a couple of your favorite harmonics, like maybe the high E and B strings on the 12th fret, since they’re easy and loud. While smoothly rolling the volume knob up with your pinky, slowly pull the bar up from the strings and just past what was “normal” and maybe just a little higher. Wiggle it a bit and listen to the screamy goodness! Van Halen tribute band, here you come!

    Okay, now get rid of that bar. It’ll cause you nothing but trouble.

    Next up: All about nuts!

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