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Thread: Teh Formula 1 Encyclopedia: 2018 Edition.

  1. #241
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    You can't keep costs down then ask to build complex hybrid systems that last 7 races.
    Maybe they'll just say that 6L NA V12s with 9k rpm limits are the 2021 engines

  2. #242
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    It'd be totally boring without real car companies involved in the sport.

    Maybe there should just be some sort of cap for factory teams to develop further if their customer teams are lagging behind. Disparity between Mercedes and Williams and FIs are just too great. Development should cease for the factory team... or perhaps Mercedes can help develop at least one of their customer teams to narrow the gap so they can all advance together!

    For Renault, the factory team should be allowed to develop without caps since they're behind Red Bull.

    We should have more team relationships like the ones with Ferrari and Haas.

    If the factory team is really rich and want to spend, encourage them to spend the money to help out other teams as much as possible.

    For Honda or any new comer without any 'customers', they should not be capped.

    Non-manufacturer teams will also have no caps, but rules should allow factory teams to dial down the engines they supply... if Adrian Newey's design is just too fast for the factory!

    I think as long as teams help each other out financially, there's really no reason to cap budget. Just let them spend as much as they want... as long as we have rules that also encourage them to spend the money on other teams as well.
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; March 28th, 2018 at 10:25 AM.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    It'd be totally boring without real car companies involved in the sport.
    Brrr. The most famous and winning F1 teams are racing teams, not bloody big manufacturers.
    Ferrari (which was for quite a long time independent), McLaren, Williams, Brabham, Lotus, BRM, Cooper, even Red Bull.
    Fuck this bullshit about car companies. F1 has as much to do with road car companies as a wooden cart to a McLaren F1.
    Car manufacturers have come and gone to F1 and often (but not always, yes) got the shaft on the track by real racing teams... or did we forget about Renault in 80s? Honda and Toyota in the 2000s? Alfa Romeo in the 80s too...

    Ban every single aero detail, EVERY single one. Single wing front, single wing back, slick continuous aero (like 2019 F-E) and not a gill, a leaf, a winglet, a razor, a split allowed.
    Also fuck this endurance rethoric with 3 engines per season: only thing it did was to steal F1 from its heritage and not cut costs; it actually levitated expenses.

    So ban any aero and let them go all mental on engine and mechanical grip. We have said for decades, but noone listens.
    And fucking trasparent open canopies like in Indy prototype; Halo is dumb and useless even for TV viewing.

  4. #244
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    I don't know about you, Ilmor and Cosworth just don't connect with fans like me as well as Chevy, Mercedes or Ford.

    Recognizable car badge is kinda important to me. Besides battle of the best driver, there ought to be a battle of technology as well... with well known car companies. (or perhaps for an unknown new company to make a name for itself.)

    Ferrari and McLaren have also established some sort of name for themselves with their super cars. I think they will be able to survive even without F-1.

    If Williams Tag Heuer becomes the next championship car, while I can be happy for them, but where will all the lessons learned be applied to regular cars on the road?

    If pure racing is all it's about, then we might as well just race virtually in Gran Turismo. Super cheap. Fastest driver wins.

  5. #245
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    Getting back to Damon Hillís comment, about letting Ferrari and Mercedes et al split from F1; in response I say this:

    1. The same is said every time someone comes to dominate and Ďruinsí the sport. This happens a lot, like, every decade. The problem is, the rules change far too often and allows for someone to find the magic bullet, while the cheaper teams struggle to keep up.

    2. Every time Iíve seen a split from a sporting entity, be it within ball sports or motor racing, it hasnít gone very well for the sport that everyone has split from, and usually signals the death knell for the originating sporting organisation. Imagine Formula One without Ferrari. It would be F1 in name, and would probably carry the world championship for a while, but it would not attract the money and prestige and eventually it would wither and die. Then the FIA would take its championships and grant them to whatever fills the void left by the old F1, and it will be exactly the same as what it was before.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blerpa View Post
    Brrr. The most famous and winning F1 teams are racing teams, not bloody big manufacturers.
    Ferrari (which was for quite a long time independent), McLaren, Williams, Brabham, Lotus, BRM, Cooper, even Red Bull.
    Fuck this bullshit about car companies. F1 has as much to do with road car companies as a wooden cart to a McLaren F1.
    Car manufacturers have come and gone to F1 and often (but not always, yes) got the shaft on the track by real racing teams... or did we forget about Renault in 80s? Honda and Toyota in the 2000s? Alfa Romeo in the 80s too...

    Ban every single aero detail, EVERY single one. Single wing front, single wing back, slick continuous aero (like 2019 F-E) and not a gill, a leaf, a winglet, a razor, a split allowed.
    Also fuck this endurance rethoric with 3 engines per season: only thing it did was to steal F1 from its heritage and not cut costs; it actually levitated expenses.

    So ban any aero and let them go all mental on engine and mechanical grip. We have said for decades, but noone listens.
    And fucking trasparent open canopies like in Indy prototype; Halo is dumb and useless even for TV viewing.
    I agree in principle.

    Formula 1 must be a high tech, garagista sport. Brawn, codify that.
    It is unsustainable to link F1 as a sport to car manufacturers' interests, they are incompatible. It must be limited to commercial relations, they can be engine suppliers, they can be technology partners, but they have far too much to lose if they're not winning. And they'll eventually win everything.
    Current F1 is boring because they've algorithm'd the shit out of every variable imaginable, hence they've got to put bottlenecks to the data. Teams can't have rooms full of statisticians telling the drivers what the optimal ROI is for every lap, let the drivers figure that out.
    Same goes for sensors, let the drivers cope a feel of the cars balance, tire wear, etc. Give some control back to the drivers. As you can't ban radio communications, nor do we want that, limit the amount of Real Time information the wall can have access to.
    Simplify the aerodynamics. It shouldn't be that hard.
    Put limits to the interconnected-ness of suspensions to aerodynamic loads. You're rocket scientists, you know how to do it.
    Ideally they should be the best drivers in the world working hard everylap, make them be at >95% most of the race, and if they go beyond their skill they should lose positions, get stuck in the gravel, limp back to pits, whatever. We want to see gladiators suffer, we wan to see heroes in disgrace, we don't want see drivers get hurt.

    Finally I think in its quest to be the fastest, F1 has lost focus. It's not about being the fastest. The brickyard should always be the fastest open wheel race. I think something akin to Group B happened to F1 cars, they became too fast and too dangerous, and instead of moving away from that formula, F1 tried to stay near that level of performance but with a reduction of risk, and that is too hygienic to be an easy to sell product. They're practically astronauts, and the only fun they provide is the countdown and the takeoff.
    acket.

  7. #247
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    Don't forget about Ken Ang!

    So much for F1TV to be available before the first race... pfffffttt! Plenty of complaints about ESPN but none about Sky from me. I really liked Paul DiResta's commentary/analysis.

  8. #248
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    I think that the screaming V10's need to come back, the cars need less aerodynamics/downforce, and that the development of the V10's is shared among the teams maybe with perhaps (or perhaps not) a couple of little things teams can do to it to make it unique to them. Something along those lines anyway, then we won't have teams struggling with a shitty engine that is down on power and reliability while those with the most money and best engines lap them race after race.

    But the sport is dead to me without a distinctive V10 or V12 sound, that's where the magic was. I keep seeing old F1 cars pop up in YouTube clips i watch and you almost get chills hearing the V10/12's scream along a track/closed road event. You usually KNOW that the car is an F1 car before you see it... V8's and whatever the shite they have now just put you to sleep.

  9. #249
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    I love those sounds, but to me F1 is not the sound. Sure it's a part of the sport that is missing, but it's just a small portion.

    Considering I've watched hundreds of races on TV, and only two in person, it doesn't bother me that much. When I went to see them in person, it was more disappointing, but on TV, it's not a huge deal.

    Kinda funny thought, back in the early 2000's one of the neatest things in Sportscar racing was how quiet the Audi's were. They were the first race car I'd ever seen that you could actually hear what the tires/undertray/air were doing. It was kinda cool.

    As for manufacturers vs. teams, I like having manufacturers there, but I don't think they are necessary. In F1, Williams and McLaren mean more to me than Honda or Mercedes. When I think Renault, Honda, Mercedes, etc., I think engines, not teams. Ferrari is unique that they aren't a manufacturer than went racing, nor are they really a team that decided to make cars. They are basically 50/50. Or at least closer than anyone else.

    Mercedes could leave F1. McLaren and Williams could fold, but sadly I think as goes Ferrari, goes F1.

    My opinion on the rules?

    Gearboxes should be changed without penalty if it's because of contact with a car or wall in a session.

    Assuming we're not going back to ICE only, PU component numbers should be upped, or even unrestricted (but no changes from the start of Qualy without penalty in race). However, cost for customers should be fixed somehow. If Mercedes wants to spend $100M to make a PU, and Ferrari only $25M, Force India and Sauber still pay the same amount, and get the same equipment as Ferrari and Mercedes proper.

    Chassis rules should be researched to allow better following, however that is achieved. Clearly less downforce, more mechanical grip is key. Ideally we can get ride of DRS, but if not, I think we need to reevaluate the detection zones vs. activation zones. Alternatively, maybe a 'push to pass' or something like Indycar has might be good. Maybe you have 100sec a race where you can exceed the fuel flow limit or something. This would allow more strategy, in that you could utilize it more out of corners rather than just at the end of the main straight. But again Ideally, the chassis rules would eliminate any need for artificial advantages.

    Refueling should come back.

    Two tire compounds per weekend. No forced use of either. Each "pair" is suited to track (so Pirelli, or whoever, would still need to make 5+ compounds suited to the various circuits for the year, but who cares how the option at Monaco compares to the option at China). They should have considerable gaps in performance and durability. Neither should last 50% of race at full performance.


    Just thoughts off the top of my slightly inebriated head.
    Last edited by Freude am Fahren; March 28th, 2018 at 09:27 PM.

  10. #250
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    I've said this a lot, and I'll say it again, these are my ideal rules for F1:

    - Give all teams a limited fuel allocation for each race weekend, or restrict fuel cell sizes (with no refuelling allowed during the race).

    - Over time, balance the need for speed against the need to produce gains in fuel economy. If the average speed/laptime/whatever over a season reaches a certain amount, then take some fuel away to lower that average again and slow the cars down.

    - Any tyre manufacturer may enter, but they must supply the same tyres to all teams - no preferences should be given certain teams for better tires. Teams may pick whichever brand they want, and are allowed to change brands once throughout the season.

    - Cars must be RWD with open wheel bodies and a minimum weight. No underbody aero (i.e. skirts) or fans. All other rules other than sporting and safety considerations are free and open.

    With those four rules in place, we would see some amazing gains in technology, and some unique designs. Eventually the cars will be so good at managing fuel and energy resources that it is inevitable that tech crossover to real-world motoring would happen, possibly at a faster pace than it is at the moment. And yeah, I fully support unlimited budgets for those that have the backing. F1 has always had a budget 'problem' and nothing in the world will fix that.

    The only downside I can see is that cornering speeds will get higher and higher even though straight line speeds stay roughly the same. This is happening in F1 now as it stands, and could lead to a dangerous situation when a car loses traction as the energy is much higher. How to fix that? I have no idea.

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