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Thread: Formula One 2019

  1. #1121
    Severed Member JoeW's Avatar
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    Poor Bottas got screwed by the lack of DRS for nearly half the race. He definitely would have beaten Leclerc to 3rd.

  2. #1122
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeW View Post
    Poor Bottas got screwed by the lack of DRS for nearly half the race. He definitely would have beaten Leclerc to 3rd.
    I believe, with normally functioning DRS, he could have ended contending Verstappen second place, even.

  3. #1123
    Severed Member JoeW's Avatar
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    Yeah I typed that then deleted it.

    The front guys usually manage the pace depending on the threat behind. Hamilton never had to turn it up to 11 so he was cruising. Max knew he wasn't going to catch him so he was cruising to manage the tires...and basically keep Leclerc a safe distance behind.

    I think if Bottas had passed Leclerc 10 laps earlier then Max would have had to turn it up a notch which probably would have been plenty to keep 2nd. Especially with Bottas on old hard tires.

    I used to wonder how someone starting at the back could make it to a podium until I realized (somewhat recently I am sad to admit) that the leaders are just cruising around managing tires so as to keep their strategies in tact. It's not that the chasing guy is so fast...it's that the leaders are going so slow. Of course...the chasing guy obviously has to be a top driver from a top team to make it happen...I think if Hamilton had started from the back he probably could have won this one. Bottas...not so much.

    As an aside...wtf again with Ferrari strategy? Leclerc/Vet pitted so damn early that they never had a chance to fight near the last 50% of the race. I'm guessing they were betting on a VSC or SC?
    Last edited by JoeW; December 2nd, 2019 at 04:40 PM.

  4. #1124
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    Read an article saying that Albon was surprised that his undercut didnít quite work out with Vettel... so Ferrari was not that slow to Albon!

    Anyway, Iím still a bit confused as to how undercuts work... I wish drivers could just race in an old fashion way of passing each other on track rather with all these strategies...

    Need more races like Brazil, but of course minus the Ferrari drama please!

  5. #1125
    Seeing just a brief clip of F1 cars before the turbo hybrid era makes me miss those days. The cars were visibly more nimble - lighter, narrower. The tires more durable with, presumably, a wider window of operation, so the drivers would push more. Nowadays it's all about who can Sunday drive the best. Smooth is admirable, but they've had to go too far on these modern day Pirellis and big heavy F1 cars. I'm not sure what 2021 regs will do to help this, but with any luck the shorter sidewalls might make the cars a little bit more lively.

  6. #1126
    Severed Member JoeW's Avatar
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    The undercut is basically pitting before an opponent in an effort to gain as much as 3-4 secs of track position due to switching to fresh tires and going balls out on the next 2-3 laps. Usually done when within 2-3secs of an opponent ahead of you.

    Unless the driver ahead is on a completely different strategy this will force the lead driver to pit immediately in order to attempt to the keep the following team from having more than 1 lap of running on much fresher tires.

  7. #1127
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    This is assuming that you really have a faster race pace than the leader and assuming you donít have any slower traffic passing you by while you pit, right?

    Currently the top3 teams might be able to pull away with enough of a gap to pull this off? If we have more competitive cars on track, if you end up losing position by putting early, wouldnít fighting with the traffic be problematic?

    To me it seems like a risky proposition but these guys pull it of regularly...

    There werenít any undercuts back in the senna Schumacher days, right? Or I just wasnít paying attention?
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; December 3rd, 2019 at 04:24 PM.

  8. #1128
    Severed Member JoeW's Avatar
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    Well let’s say LeClerc was 3-4 secs behind Max at Monaco. They are 20 laps in on Soft tires. Each team wants to stretch the tires as long as possible. LeClerc wouldn’t normally be able to pass at their current pace on these old tires.

    LeClerc would now attempt an undercut by pitting for fresh medium tires. He comes out of the pits and can potentially do 2-3 secs per lap faster than Max on his worn tires. Even if Max pits next lap he risks losing his position to LeClerc because he's flying on fresh tires.

    That’s why you’ll hear the pit wall tell Max to push hard if the car behind him tries an undercut.

    Of course they will only try and undercut if they have clear track to push.
    Last edited by JoeW; December 3rd, 2019 at 05:47 PM.

  9. #1129
    The tires were designed to wear out quickly in order to open up the possibilities for differing strategies and the undercut is one of the tools they now have on offer. I didn't watch the Senna/Shumacher days but I remember tires being more durable when I did start watching (still in the V10 refueling era). Part of the risk and challenge of "going for the undercut" as they say is finding a gap in traffic to slot into after you come out of your pit stop so that you can take the most advantage out of your fresh tires and have monster pace for a few laps. When two cars are battling for the lead and the pit window is approaching, it can be a real cat and mouse game to see who blinks first and who is forcing the other to make strategy decisions. If you go for the undercut too early, you could be vulnerable at the end of the race when your final set of tires is at the end of life.

  10. #1130
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    Yeah, I really donít recall undercuts back then. Tires were probably more durable..., along with so many cars on track, such strategy probably werenít even feasible. If you have to refuel and add weight, thatíll probably make undercuts even less effective.

    I like the idea of giving teams more strategies to play with, but I kinda wanna eliminate this undercut thing. Besides confusing me, sometimes top F1 drivers may even be surprised to see how they lost their leads after a pit stop ...

    Personally I want to see more actions on track.

    Also, I think these tires are just too temperamental. Both car and driver need to be able to dip into the tiresí sweet spot in order for it to work... this is fine if you allow teams to properly test things. If you want to limit testing, maybe tires shouldnít be so finicky?

    Ferrari and Haas seemed to have a hard time with tires this season. Ferrari has the resources to eventually correct their problems but apparently not Haas. Even with Ferrariís resources, due to test limitations, it took them a long time to fix their problem. This season probably couldíve been a lot more exciting if we ran it with more durable and less finicky tires.

    But of course Mercedes fully deserved their win for optimizing everything to their best. Hamilton also did an awesome job, but frankly itís just not that awe inspiring. Just glad we have Leclerc and Max, otherwise it wouldíve been a super boring season.

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