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Thread: Formula One 2019

  1. #631
    Severed Member JoeW's Avatar
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    Therein lies the problem. History will tell a story of Hamilton’s dominance in the hybrid era. Clearly he is a great driver in the very best car. Unfortunately this how modern racing goes. Even a good driver could win championships in that car.

    Many years ago a great driver could win in privateer cars against factory teams. Those days are over. The truly great drivers of today may never be spoken of in the future because they never had a chance to get a top car. It’s all timing nowadays. If Max doesn’t get a top car then he may just be a few words in a history book.

  2. #632
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    As long as Iíve been watching F1, not even Senna could win the championships without a good car.

    Talent will get you more chances to be in a top ride though. Thereís no reason to believe Max will end up like Alonso, the bridge burning type.

    Only way to compare drivers is when 2 drivers are teammates.

    I find it hard to believe that a driver that could consistently outperform teammates and occasionally win races in inferior machines will failed to end up driving championship winning cars...

    Who since the 80s do you think shouldíve been multichamps but failed to win a single championship? Sure, some like JV were lucky, but I canít think of anyone who deserved to be multichamps but didnít make it due to just bad luck?

    Do you guys recall anyone who shined so brilliantly prior to winning championships and finished his career, without dying prematurely and without any championships?

  3. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaultyMario View Post
    I disagree with you there.

    I think Lewis has earned a spot up there with Clark, Senna and Fangio.
    Yeah, makes me wonder what samoht meant by being league above the top level drivers...

    To make it in F1, probably even as a paid driver, youíre probably top level driver compared to the rest of population. Now, within the F1 community, to be the top level of that, IMHO, youíll have to be able to sign with top teams as the #1 driver and demonstrate that youíre really the #1 in the team.

    To be considered as legend, youíll have to be able to consistently beat other #1 drivers in the same machine.

    Senna beat Prost.

    Hamilton beat Alonso and Rosberg

    Max beat Ricciardo and indirectly Vettel

    Interestingly Schumacher never had a noteworthy teammate, right? Coming out of retirement, he couldnít beat Rosberg... so Iím not sure Iíd consider Schuey as that great of a driver... just an amazing team builder.

    Vettel also never had noteworthy proven track record multichamp teammates...

    I really have no clue about Fangio or the days older than 80s... just my 2. cents from 80s onward.

    Iíd rate Max as up there... I wonder how heíll do with Hamilton as teammate...
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; July 10th, 2019 at 06:10 PM.

  4. #634
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    Kimi should have more than one wdc, but McLaren was a let down in oh five.
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  5. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post

    Interestingly Schumacher never had a noteworthy teammate, right? Coming out of retirement, he couldn’t beat Rosberg... so I’m not sure I’d consider Schuey as that great of a driver... just an amazing team builder.
    Most long time observers of the sport -be it professional competitors or reporters or fans- can't agree on the goat. But they're pretty much sure it's either of Fangio, Clark or Senna.

    And right below them, there's a tier that's generally believed to be occupied by Prost, Schumacher, Vettel and Jys.

    In this second step, there's exceptionally talented, hardworking and well-connected drivers who bested everyone else but were either beaten by one of the top three or didn't really have a chance to win in a less than dominant car.

    I think Hamilton made the jump in the last two or three years.
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  6. #636
    Severed Member JoeW's Avatar
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    I think the era of machinery importance probably happened in the 70s? Maybe when the high downforce became a thing? Prior to that you could have a fair car but an amazing driver could put it in the winners circle. Was Jim Clark in the best car when he drove? I’m not a historian but it would be interesting to know which top regarded drivers were considered to have driven the best car and which drivers drove the wheels off an inferior car.

  7. #637
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    There were always big teams and driving the wheels off a lesser car has almost always gotten you to a dominant car. Or at least to a fast car that broke down like with Mika and Kimi.


    Guys who were politically savvy and got good rides are not generally in the top two groups. Lauda and Piquet cine to mind.
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  8. #638
    Severed Member JoeW's Avatar
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    I really suppose that in the end you can’t compare drivers of different eras. Fangio in his wingless car with a leather cap and goggles can’t be compared to Clark who can’t be compared to Senna who can’t be compared to Schumacher etc etc. Totally different machinery.

  9. #639
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    Think back in the Clark days, the cars were pretty much equal. Reliability was a lot more of a factor then.

  10. #640
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    Fangio- winner of the intro era.

    Clark- winner of intermediate era.

    Senna- winner of modern era.

    I think Hamilton showed that he could dethrone Senna when he beat Alonso...

    Max is showing similar caliber.

    I think the main quality is that this person need to be able to bring the entire sport to a higher level!

    Max has certainly help make F1 way more interesting even without winning any championships...

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