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Thread: We're all gonna die (The climate change thread)

  1. #141
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    google dot com, how does cap and trade work.
    acket.

  2. #142
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    Cap and trade doesn't really involve average people, right? As far as I know, it's all between companies, right Google?

    So if prices of goods increase due to cap and trade, too bad for the people, right Google?

  3. #143
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    Well, ideally the prices of goods that result in more emissions would increase while the prices of goods that result in fewer would decrease, right?

  4. #144
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    One of the big problems is media attention to issues....as seen in a nutshell in this Apple news feed (via Veronica Belmont on Twitter):

    ║]=(86)=[║ Venturi3D.com

  5. #145
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  6. #146
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    Sadly, that basically all comes down to the internet advertising model and analytics. The only thing that matters is that engagement graphs move up and to the right, because that means increased ad revenue.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    Cap and trade doesn't really involve average people, right? As far as I know, it's all between companies, right Google?

    So if prices of goods increase due to cap and trade, too bad for the people, right Google?
    The principle of cap and trade was just amounting for positive externalities in private industry, uncovering hidden costs (which were making goods artificially cost less) whilst the general public was paying for those costs, not the producers or consumers of that particular industry. So, You're right in that C&T doesn't involve indivual consumers, but the point of taxation has always been the common good.

    IMHO good policy should provide incentives or penalties for industries, and not banning or imposing certain activities. For example, to make transportation less energy-intensive it's good to make ICE powered vehicles less appealing, to build safer cycling infraestructure, make rules that allow businesses to telecommute and such.

    Because if we don't let experts categorize and weigh and tax those human activities that consume our common resourcers according to a common good and we let self-interested individuals decide we end up with shit like what Chris posted.
    acket.

  8. #148
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    I'm not saying we should prevent experts from weighing in, I'm just saying if we're going to play this 'game', it ought to be all inclusive.

    Why should only companies like Tesla stand to gain from cap and trade? Why shouldn't Swervo who bikes to work also receive some benefits as well? And price of goods will inevitably rise when we play this 'game', and we need to compensate people who actually need to buy gas to get to work because biking isn't an option! Riots are not just a possibility anymore. It actually happened in Paris! It's not just Trump who's not happy about it. There's no real accord even in Paris.

    Similar to financial crisis. I don't know, perhaps bailing out the banks was the most effective way of rescuing the economy. I don't know that for sure, but let's just pretend that's true. In the end, regular folks still lost their jobs, their houses, but those mother fucking bankers still got rich and not one went to jail. Even if that solution IS the most effective way to rescue the situation, but it simply doesn't feel fair. I don't want cap and trade end up in a similar boat.

    You regular Joes are just too dumb to understand, let's let the 'experts' figure this out and save the planet. Trust me, when there's huge load of money involved, experts can be bought. Games could be rigged. In the end, planet won't be saved, rich get richer, poor get fucked more and that's my fear for the current cap and trade game.

    I just think we need a more inclusive plan that involves everyone. Not just big companies.

    We are all emitting CO2 here. We all need to be able to make sometimes hard choices. We all need to be playing this 'game' and win it. Forgive me if I don't trust politicians and big corporations to be able to save our planet all by themselves. I have nothing against experts, but experts are not the ones running governments nor companies.
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; June 5th, 2019 at 12:28 PM.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    Why shouldn't Swervo who bikes to work also receive some benefits as well?
    Well, I mean, I do. I save a ton in not buying gas. I still pay for insurance, but the amount of miles I drive is so low that my insurance is pretty inconsequential. I also get $200 a month from my work for not using a parking space. On the other hand, people moving off fossil fuels for their transportation ends up also helping me in that I'm breathing in fewer pollutants while I ride, so that's a nice side benefit.

    I haven't watched the Ted talk because ain't nobody got time for that, but giving benefits to people to make it easier to buy more expensive gas that, by all rights, should be more expensive seems like a huge footgun if you're trying to reduce dependency on fossil fuels.

  10. #150
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    Either way, cost of living is going to rise if we choose to fight carbon emission.

    When costs increase too much, people will whine and possibly start riots.

    This extra cash is simply to help keep people somewhat happy. If you insist on using fossil fuels as usually, I'm sure this 'benefit' won't cover all of the price increases. Only if you make wiser choices, then perhaps your benefits check might help you net some extra cash.

    Anyway, if you think cap and trade will work for big greedy companies, I'm pretty sure this all inclusive cap and trade will work for everybody too.

    If you really think average person will just blow the money and buy more fossil fuel, what do you think GM will do when SUV sales go thru the roof? Just keep on paying Elon Musk more money will help save the planet?

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