Isn't plastic fantastic?

[George]

Speaking of replacing plastic bags with something else...in our house, we use plastic bags from grocery and other stores as trash can liners and for scooping cat litter. My wife uses re-usable bags at the grocery store and gives me grief when I come home with stuff in plastic bags, but it seems to me if I don't get at least a few plastic bags once in a while for the specific purpose of using them as trash bags later, then I'll have to purchase some kind of trash bags instead.

Seems to me it's sort of a break-even situation if I'm using free-to-me plastic bags again after their original intended use.

I await the wrath of the anti-plastic faction.

[Dicknose]

DN, banning littering and it doesn’t quite get enforced as well as in tiny Singapore is precisely the reason why I thought more bans won’t really be more effective.

People also tend to become more rebellious if it’s forced upon us. Whereas if becoming more environmentally friendly could somehow become more fashionable or more financially incentivized, or become the more socially accepted norm, then it will work out. I just think that bans are the least effective way to motivate people to change.

Whats your logic there?
Rebellious - you going to go out and source banned items from somewhere else and throw them on the ground?

Bans on this sort of stuff works - you cut out the source of the litter and rely less on people changing their littering behaviour - they have to change their ways to cope with no straws or plastic bags.

Yes its "big govt" in that its done by laws, but it shouldnt be political in terms of which side of politics. Its about managing a problem.

[Tom Servo]

For scooping cat litter I use these: https://smile.amazon.com/Pogis-Poop-...gateway&sr=8-4

Supposedly they're a plastic that's been treated to make it break down in 18 or so months.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Yeah, I’ve seen markets with more biodegradable plastic bags, probably should steer the market toward such bags more rather than a complete ban.

Speaking of bans, DN, we are not computers, not trying to solve issues by pure logic. Just trying to be realistic. US has banned alcohol and drugs... did it really work out? CA has also banned certain assault weapons, but our latest mass shooter managed to legally get it from a neighboring state. Can we really ban the source? At what cost?

Given current political climate, it’s also super hard to achieve bipartisanship. When only liberals are supporting a cause, chances are the conservatives will break out in some sort of allergic reaction... and we’ll be left with dealing with the allergic reaction rather than the core problem itself.

[Tom Servo]

Well, in fairness, the ban on plastic grocery bags is what lead me to find another solution.

[Crazed_Insanity]

That’s fair. But what would be even more fair is that stores could just automatically transition to such bags without any political fight over it. Sure ban something, but please also give people appropriate substitute as well.

I think I heard it on NPR this morning that Mongolian children are dying of pollution by coal. So government planned to ban it as solution. So I guess now children will have fresher air to breath but might freeze to death or starve to death... because they not only use coal for heating but also cooking.

[Rare White Ape]

Whats your logic there?
Rebellious - you going to go out and source banned items from somewhere else and throw them on the ground?

You may be forgetting that he’s from America, where for some people, going against the government for the hell of it seems like it’s a regular pastime.

[Rare White Ape]

Cotton totes have to be used 131 times before they're more environmentally friendly than a plastic bag in terms of carbon emissions since and water usage they cost more to manufacture and transport.

Well here’s a thing that doesn’t really get mentioned or covered, as far as I’ve seen.

I’d like to know if there’s been any study on it, but the specific impact on an ecosystem of discarded plastic, vs the increased emissions from manufacturing and transportation of reusable bags.

I’m thinking that carbon emissions are less harmful than plastic on our oceans and waterways, at least in the short term. Don’t get me wrong, they’re still bad when you accumulate enough over a long period of time, but the carbon dioxide that is used to make them is shared with the worldwide carbon dioxide problem. And if you look at the single-use plastic itself, it’s devastating with a smaller amount over a very short period of time.

Plus, let’s say we completely halt carbon intensive energy production within ten years. Time enough that we may be able to reverse the damage on the environment by allowing nature to absorb the chemical and avoiding a runaway greenhouse. How long before CO2 levels are back to within an acceptable range? 100 years? 200?

How long will it be before all of the plastic in the oceans is broken down and turned into a compound that can be absorbed into the ecosystem? I’ve seen 25,000 years being quoted as a half-life for that shit.

I’m in the camp that will happily accept a slight increase in CO2 production to save the environment for now, as long as the view to the future is to switch to renewable electricity to fully wipe out the cost to the environment.

[Crazed_Insanity]

If plastics can trap and keep carbon away from the atmosphere for 25,000 years, climate change worrier might think that's a good thing?

Everyone will accept different things differently. We'll never all agree to anything. This is why I don't think we should mix politics with saving our environment. We'll be so busy fighting each other rather than fighting climate change or saving our environment.

Isn't it very logical that if we ban something that's being used widely, we also provide another substitute to make the transition easier for everybody? If no viable alternative is available, then maybe the focus need to be on developing viable alternatives along with reduction of plastic use rather than out right ban or political fights. No system likes to be shocked. Slamming on the brakes may or may not be the most logical solution.

Governments should just work with retailers to transition into more biodegradable bags along with cotton reusable bags to allow customers to choose. Reusable plastic bags really make no sense to me. As if we'll never ever throw those bags away? Those are thicker and sturdier and probably will take 25million years to decompose.

[SkylineObsession]

Over here there's a small company turning recycled plastic into fence posts (mix of plastic and other stuff i think), and i think i've heard of plastic being put into roading material too. If people keep coming up with good ways to reuse it, hopefully more will get recycled.