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Thread: Pandemic Thread (CoronaVirus etc.)

  1. #2361
    Senior Member Leon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CudaMan View Post
    You guys seem to be doing just fine down there. Are the narcissists outnumbered? Is social media (and the conspiracies/disinformation that seem to go along with it) less widely used? I'm broadly aware of the more sound governance in NZ during these times. That requires cooperation from the people, too, which is where I'm going with this.
    There's a few factors involved, and I don't claim to be able to provide a very intelligent analysis... so apply that filter to my reply here.

    We in NZ were *incredibly* lucky that we have a left leaning government, who is deeply invested in looking after people, ahead of profit. So despite the inevitable massive cost to tourism (massive earner for NZ), they decided quickly that we were shutting the borders hard and fast, and fund businesses to close everything non crucial for a month. It was unbelievably easy and fast for businesses to get funding, to be closed. So, much of NZ had a paid holiday for a month. Apply various disclaimers that it wasn't perfect, and some businesses folded, and some people lost income.

    Then I think fundamentally NZ (as a collective, not every single individual) thinks very differently from how USA (as a collective, not every single individual) thinks as a society. USA appears to be very focused on freedom for the individual. "I have a god given right to do what the f**k I want, and the overall good of the people around me as a community can eat a massive bag of dicks". For example: I want a machine gun, in fact I want 100 machine guns, because FREEDOM. The fact that this directly means a lot of complete psychopaths will also have machine guns, well, that's tough luck for the community in general, because I will have my FREEDOMS. NZ still has a fair share of people who want big guns, sometimes because they're psychopaths, sometimes because they like guns. NZ society has gone "No. No, we don't need machine guns, because the only thing you hunt with those are human beings". So, nobody gets machine guns legally. Then we had that mosque shooting nutjob white supremacist (I'm not going to name him, he's not worthy of having a name). A month later, massive crackdown on gun rules. Government buyback of guns. Because the greater good needs to be served. Then there's free public health. Again, not perfect, but look at the number of people living on the streets here, or dying untreated on the streets here, because of medical bills, compared to USA. It will be a number as close to zero as you can get. Because that's what serves the greater good. Enough of NZ agreed, for the greater good, we're giving up our FREEDOMS, because there's a global pandemic, and fuck it, we don't want to kill everyone's grandma.

    So, again, with huge amounts of disclaimers applied, that this is just the opinion of one not particularly well educated Kiwi, it appears the difference between the USA and NZ during the pandemic is better leadership, and more focus on the greater good than on individual freedom.

    Time will tell if we screwed the pooch or not. At this point in time, it appears we here have come out better, through a combination of better management, and better luck (geographical isolation, no land borders, low population).
    Last edited by Leon; February 3rd, 2021 at 07:50 PM.

  2. #2362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leon View Post
    We in NZ were *incredibly* lucky that we have a left leaning government
    Australia has a right leaning federal gov (and quite a few states)
    But they are all probably to the left of the US left!

    I do think this mindset of where the balance between individual and group does tend to change from country to country.
    I know a few aussies who moved to the US because they thought it was too socialist here (they also supported trump!)

  3. #2363
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    I think it’s clear NZ has done a much much better job than USA when it comes to taking care of each other in this pandemic. Socialism is clearly the winning way under such circumstances...

    As far as USA is concerned, well, only bright side I can see is that we'll probably reach herd immunity faster? We also beat Kiwis and came up with vaccines first! But we can probably learn from kiwis regarding how to effectively distribute vaccines...

    Anyway, hope america will take the opportunity to learn the benefits of socialism...

  4. #2364
    Senior Member G'day Mate's Avatar
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    I think as Australians we are very proud of our low numbers, and as such people are mostly happy to do what's needed to keep it that way.

    Apart from the three-day panic we had in South Australia over a pizza shop employee, I've been living my normal life since ... about June last year when we went back to work in the office? There's a few quirks here and there such as venue limitations, more traffic and covid check-ins, but meh. Feels 98% normal.

  5. #2365
    Senior Member G'day Mate's Avatar
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    Oh, this is an interesting read about contact tracing if anyone is interested ...

    Why many countries failed at COVID contact-tracing — but some got it right

  6. #2366
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    Quote Originally Posted by G'day Mate View Post
    I think as Australians we are very proud of our low numbers, and as such people are mostly happy to do what's needed to keep it that way.

    Apart from the three-day panic we had in South Australia over a pizza shop employee, I've been living my normal life since ... about June last year when we went back to work in the office? There's a few quirks here and there such as venue limitations, more traffic and covid check-ins, but meh. Feels 98% normal.
    Not sure how much you hear about us Mexicans in Victoria, but there is a lot of vocal dipshits always trashing Dan Andrews for his handling of Covid down here.
    I personally think he's done a good job.
    NSW dropped the ball with the cruise ship debacle last year, then had the nerve to blame Victoria for their outbreak.

  7. #2367
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    And then see the complaining from the NSW govt (and the media) about Victoria locking down in July/August, nek minnit they have to do the same because of the Sydney outbreak just before Christmas!

    It would be a lesson to us all if we didn't have such short memories.

    Meanwhile in WA, they're near the end of their short and sweet lockdown, and the Premier has asked their Governor to issue writs for their election, which is in March. It'll be interesting to see how it goes for McGowan, seeing as how Labor governments come under so much pressure when they do anything, and COVID has empowered the Liberals Australia-wide to demand open borders etc.

    (For readers in right-way-up countries who may be unfamiliar, WA and Victoria are led by the centre-left Labour party, and NSW is led by the right-wing Liberal party).

  8. #2368
    Ask me about my bottom br FaultyMario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yobbo NZ View Post
    Not sure how much you hear about us Mexicans in Victoria

    Nice!
    acket.

  9. #2369
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    Quote Originally Posted by G'day Mate View Post
    Apart from the three-day panic we had in South Australia over a pizza shop employee, I've been living my normal life since ... about June last year when we went back to work in the office? There's a few quirks here and there such as venue limitations, more traffic and covid check-ins, but meh. Feels 98% normal.
    We've lost almost a year of our lives here. Two concerts we planned to go to, who knows how many that would have come up in the past year, those are just the two we had tickets for before the pandemic started. Canceled 45th birthday trip to Hawaii for my wife. Canceled trip to Barcelona with my parents. Haven't seen my parents since late Feb., no visits with family for any of the holidays. Haven't seen the inside of an office since early March. Haven't seen a co-worker face-to-face since early March. Haven't been to a bar since March. Outside of my wife, I've seen four of my friends, in total, outside of Zoom meetings in almost a year. My father's birthday came in under the wire at late Feb, but it's likely my wife, me, and the rest of my extended family will have second one go by without being able to celebrate with anybody. Lost three relatives and wasn't able to go to a funeral for any of them.

    It's easy over time to just get used to this, but when I think about how we've literally just lost nearly a year, and will more than likely lose many more months, because a man-child in charge couldn't admit there was a problem it's pretty infuriating. It's so foreign to think that life could be 98% normal.

    It's heartening to know that my father should have gotten his first vaccination shot today, and my mom will get it on the 8th. I also still know that you apparently can be a carrier even with the vaccination, so we'll have to wait until us younger, less vulnerable folk get them for life to even start approaching normal again.
    Last edited by Tom Servo; February 4th, 2021 at 10:28 PM.

  10. #2370
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    The point you make at the end about vaccination is an important one: it's not a magic bullet, and it only really helps the person who's been vaccinated, unlike say Measles vaccine which stops it spreading from the host.

    It's to be used in conjunction with other measures such as physical distancing, mask wearing, personal hygiene, contract tracing, reduced travel and work hours, and people limits in enclosed venues.

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