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Thread: Billi vs the World

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    The search for truth shouldn't be about compelling others to dance for you. Peterson shouldn't do that... nor should trans people. People should just be allowed to freely have their conversations... and be allowed to choose to be nice or assholes on their own accord without a law hanging over their head.

    Okay, let's just say Peterson is the asshole and move on...

    What about that piece of Canadian law? Do you think it's necessary?
    When these arseholes can lead to serious issues and mental health troubles - yeah why not use the law to protect people.
    We have plenty of other laws against being a dickhead - like defamation. As long as the punishment fits the crime, I dont have a huge problem with putting some legal weight against people being arseholes.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Heh, it ultimately feels a little futile as Billi is world-class at digging his heels in, so most of the time when you're going back and forth with him it's in an attempt to make your point to onlookers rather than to each other. Still, glad to be able to go toe to toe without pissing too many people off.
    I enjoy seeing others perspective, even when we basically agree. I can put a different spin on things.
    But I also enjoy thinking over and clarifying my concepts. Why is X a good idea? What is wrong about Y?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Heh, it ultimately feels a little futile as Billi is world-class at digging his heels in, so most of the time when you're going back and forth with him it's in an attempt to make your point to onlookers rather than to each other. Still, glad to be able to go toe to toe without pissing too many people off.
    Oh com’on, my heels have definitely been moved over the years… by Doc Love, Jesus and now Jordan Peterson… well Peterson never drastically altered my world view, I just thought he’s very smart, with broad knowledge and also just very motivating… he has also talked about women and relationship stuff because he’s a psychologist… so I guess seeing him on YouTube is like me finally seeing Doc Love and Jesus all at the same time where as I usually just read about them…

    Anyway, I really think political orientations are very similar to sexual orientations…, we just won’t be able to convince each other to actually switch sides. I do quite enjoy our discussions though. Thanks for spending the time. Roofer for sure won’t have sufficient patience to have such in depth discussions with me when we talk about what’s fucked up in the right side of the world.

  4. #54
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    Billi - one thing you mentioned above, that we shouldn't cancel/shut the door on people.
    People who are behaving outside what is socially acceptable shouldn't just be punished. Think racist, sexist, phobic people. Esp ones that might end causing real harm.
    Its much better to have an environment where they can feel that they can be encouraged to change/grow, rather than be outcast. Ostracising can result in people going rogue or worse joining a group.

    There is still a big issue with sexual assaults and men who are sliding down a slope from yelling, threats that will lead to increasing violence. Its good that we are encouraging society to say a big NO to this behaviour, but if it means we cut off people who are at the lower levels of harm then it doesn't help them move in the right direction.

    So yeah - we shouldn't just "cancel" people, we should give second chances and help. But they do need to accept this help.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dicknose View Post
    When these arseholes can lead to serious issues and mental health troubles - yeah why not use the law to protect people.
    We have plenty of other laws against being a dickhead - like defamation. As long as the punishment fits the crime, I dont have a huge problem with putting some legal weight against people being arseholes.
    I can agree with what you said here if there’s really an asshole causing people mental harm. However, situation is never that straight forward. How far would you go with that?

    So you believe it’s a good idea to criminalize people for refusing to ‘dance’ with the trans community by addressing them properly?

    Protecting the marginalized is perfectly fine, but if a law compels people to refer to them with more special pronouns, we really need to criminalize people for refusing to play nice? What kind of punishment would fit that crime?

    Or you’re just making a claim that Peterson the psychologist is just a bully asshole causing problems for Canadian trans people mental health? So should an asshole like that be allowed to teach at any schools?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dicknose View Post
    Billi - one thing you mentioned above, that we shouldn't cancel/shut the door on people.
    People who are behaving outside what is socially acceptable shouldn't just be punished. Think racist, sexist, phobic people. Esp ones that might end causing real harm.
    Its much better to have an environment where they can feel that they can be encouraged to change/grow, rather than be outcast. Ostracising can result in people going rogue or worse joining a group.

    There is still a big issue with sexual assaults and men who are sliding down a slope from yelling, threats that will lead to increasing violence. Its good that we are encouraging society to say a big NO to this behaviour, but if it means we cut off people who are at the lower levels of harm then it doesn't help them move in the right direction.

    So yeah - we shouldn't just "cancel" people, we should give second chances and help. But they do need to accept this help.
    I agree.

    However, current cancel culture isn’t what you are describing here, right?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    So you believe it’s a good idea to criminalize people for refusing to ‘dance’ with the trans community by addressing them properly?

    Protecting the marginalized is perfectly fine, but if a law compels people to refer to them with more special pronouns, we really need to criminalize people for refusing to play nice? What kind of punishment would fit that crime?

    Or you’re just making a claim that Peterson the psychologist is just a bully asshole causing problems for Canadian trans people mental health? So should an asshole like that be allowed to teach at any schools?
    I think he is an arsehole. Actually I think that's pretty clear.

    Punishment - I think it should be a bit like defamation. The punishment is monetary and fits the scale of the crime, which includes the size of the audience and the harm caused.

    I can understand people making mistakes or assumptions, but once someone has said "please call me X" you are just a dick if you dont. Im sure even Peterson would get annoyed if people starting call him something he didn't like.

    As for teaching... if he does that inside a job then it could be covered by workplace bullying. I have no problem with someone losing their job from deliberately being a dick to annoy others.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    I agree.

    However, current cancel culture isn’t what you are describing here, right?
    Wasn't saying anything about cancel culture. Was just saying that people who are outside acceptable behaviour (esp behaviours that were ignored or accepted previously) shouldn't be just hung out.

  9. #59
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    Anyway, I was talking about cancel culture. like I said, I have no problem with your suggestions.

    Cancel culture is essentially mob taking over as judge and executioner… the equivalent on the right is of course authorities taking over as judge and executioner such as just shooting someone dead… both extremes are just wrong.

    As for Peterson, I really don’t believe he’ll be an asshole to a trans person. He’s just being an asshole to a liberal govt which he felt like it’s ready to criminalize him if he doesn’t speak more politically correctly…

    I personally place Peterson as high regard as Bernie Sanders. I don’t always agree with them on everything but based on all the old videos of them, you can tell they haven’t changed much over the years. That’s a sign of a person with high integrity. Whatever they said, they really mean it!

    Can’t say the same for Andrew Yang or Obama. Both I also held in high regard at 1st, but it’s obvious to me now that although they sound good, they don’t alway mean what they say…

  10. #60
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    Not changing at all is also a sign that someone doesn't listen or learn as they go through life.

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