Not only that, but if they fail, they usually get millions of dollars in buyouts somehow.Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Not only that, but if they fail, they usually get millions of dollars in buyouts somehow.
Resistance is futile. You just can't ignore Billi.
Anyway, upon thinking about this problem of avoiding responsibility some more, I think perhaps this has become a pretty pervasive 'cultural' issue? We all know about the CEOs usually don't pickup their responsibilities... if we look at average folks in our nation, it's obvious most conservatives would champion rights and freedom without considering the consequences that might follow by refusing masks and vaccines. We just can't achieve true freedom, and rights, if we ignore responsibilities!
The left isn't immuned to this benefit seeking and responsibility avoiding type behavior... particularly with social justice warriors. Let's just take fighting climate change for example. SJW would typically want giant corporations to cut things back, but wouldn't personally take up responsibility to do anything himself to help fight climate change. One might justify by saying hey, I'm just one poor person, I don't impact the environment much, we just need to get the rich corporations to do it! While that is a true statement, but again that is avoiding personal responsibility. Imagine if everyone takes on personal responsibility to fight climate change... to just compost food waste... we could collectively make a lot of difference!
I'm just glad Greta isn't a hypocrite like that. At least she travels by sailboat... not flying around on jets to make her appearances. Most SJW love the attentions but rarely live up to their own standards that they're fighting for.
I really think our entire culture has been trained to avoid responsibilities rather than pick it up... warning labels on products... frivolous law suits... Not really sure how we can fix that. It's always much easier to tell others to be more responsible. I guess the only way to fix it is to remind ourselves that we need to be more responsibly with our own lives. That way, you can be a more convincing and effective SJW or CEO or whatever it is that you do.
Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; November 18th, 2021 at 09:02 AM.
Well I think we can find hundreds of examples of companies that do this and are doing well enough to survive.
And I think that's a problem with your logic - it assumes that capitalism and a company doing well is a good enough excuse to justify most behaviours. But history has shown that the powerful will exploit others to make money (and more power) for themselves.
Setting a min wage would be good, but the USA has such a terribly low min wage that it barely protecting these workers.
And ignore Elon - that's one wage of a guy who owns a decent chunk of the company and doesn't need income.
Id guess that there are plenty of high paid senior people at Tesla and SpaceX.
I think its good that athletes that bring in the dollars are rewarded.Besides CEOs, what about athletes? Should their pays be capped?
But this can also end up with a bad balance. We had an issue a few years back (10?) where the 2nd tier cricketers were complaining that they weren't paid enough. Not enough to live and put up with the stress and demands of the job. Unfortunately this level of the sport runs at a loss, it doesn't generate much income and costs a lot to run. Its funded from the top level. Now a few of the top level players came out and pushed this issue so they public were aware. But hey, were they willing to take a 10% hit of their million a year to top up some people who were on 50k a year?? They just wanted the players to get a bigger pie, they wouldn't consider how the pie was distributed.
So not capped - but the distribution of the funds should be reasonable.
I think some of the min wage earners working for them might have a different view...Let companies experiment however they want provided that they don't hurt folks... entrepreneurs should be allowed to try new things without their hands tied behind their back such as bunch of govt red tape. Government can then regulate things that may be harmful to society. CEO's and Sports athletes high salaries are not that harmful to society I don't think.
And Id definitely say that this hurts society. A wealthy nation with people living in poverty, even people working who live hand to mouth, that's seriously messed up.
If the US would tie min wage to actual living wage, maybe things won’t be as messed up.
If we’re talking about a boss exploiting his workers to enrich himself, that of course would immoral even in my eyes. However, if it’s the board of a company who willingly pays super high salaries to hire someone, that should be a different matter, right?
Also, athletes or f1 teams who can’t pay their bills should just get out of the way rather than expecting hand outs from top teams, right? Nobody’s exploiting these lower pay athletes and nobody is exploiting Williams Or Haas… if they just can’t go on any longer, just quit! Or sell your team or whatever else of value, right? Do they have a right to exist and to perform at such low levels? Who wants to watch that?
Budget cap is the right thing to do, it’s also to FIA’s(government) interests to help smaller teams if it want to give financial assistance to smaller teams, but I don’t see why Mercedes(rich company) needs to distribute their wealth and successes? FIA can use its own profit(tax) to help the little teams.
In my mind, company’s singular mission should be to turn out great products ( money will naturally follow). It’s governments job to look after those who need help. Of course ideally the government probably should NOT tax the money making companies so much that it stifles their growth.
Companies (capitalism). Government (socialism). Companies should not be distracted and be forced to take care of the poor. Governments should just focus on setting up sufficient safety net for folks who might need help and not use the net to trap rich companies.
Problems with the US is not because our companies are too rich, but our government, even democrats, cannot pass laws to make sure workers can have living wages! It’s our government failing it’s job because it’s hi jacked by the rich.
Even if I agree with you to cap CEO pays, there’d be no way that can be implemented. So why not 1st thing 1st? Let’s aim for living wage for all and make the most basic healthcare as affordable as Covid vaccines? If that doesn’t fix things, then maybe we can try your idea?
I think I can bring this back to SJW thing that I was talking about. Yeah, we want to rich to cut back pollution, to feed the poor…, but who’s really gonna make them? Might as well just take matters into our own hands. Help the needy and fight climate change ourselves rather than counting on the rich. The people could also just revolt and riot and trash the rich and make everyone suffer if the rich became too out of touch I suppose…
Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; November 18th, 2021 at 11:02 PM.
Okay, I finally found the source of what Neanderthal was talking about regarding Andrew yang. Apparently he was talking about that on David Pakman…
Anyway, so I’ll just reiterate this Billi vs Dems topic here in this thread rather than stuffing RWA with too much salad in the political thread…
I think it’s pretty clear in the show that Yang was not really seeking help from white supremacists. He was just hypothetically asked the question and Yang stated that he’s not going to exclude anybody as long as this can help our democracy. (IMHO, that’s real diversity!)
I know Neanderthal is probably the minority dem ‘extremist’ around here, but he does represent the DNC pretty well. He would rather tell Billi, Yang, Tulsi, Bernie, AOC, Jordan Peterson… or anyone who doesn’t nicely fit under the liberal ideology to fuck off and lose the election… than to win with the coalition of a truly diverse group of folks.
Look, nobody is really with the white supremacists, okay? Once we get rid of this stupid lesser of the 2 evil 2 party system… in a more healthy democracy, do you guys really believe white supremacists will actually win any elections in America?!?!? Do you guys really believe white supremacists will take over in a nation when whities are now a minority? And the only human race /minority group NOT allowed to be proud of themselves?
I know CRT isn’t being taught in schools officially, but this ‘politically correct theory’ is definitely being shoved down people’s throats. If you dare go against that, then the dem collective will reject, ignore or cancel you. Whether it’s Andrew Yang or Kyle R or Dave Chappelle… if your speech isn’t PC enough… then it’s hate speech and so you must to be cancelled!!!
Look guys, the right is already crazy enough. I hope the left will also soon ‘awake’ from its own craziness…
Oh boy, I can't wait to revisit this tomorrow morning!
Okay, to start, I think it's always been clear he wasn't "seeking help" from white supremacists, but that he was more than okay with it and willing to look past their white supremacist viewpoints if they helped further common goals. At least that's my takeaway from that quote.
Real diversity doesn't mean accepting in white supremacists. I know you think it's not real, but the paradox of tolerance is a thing, and not excluding people who want to exclude others leads to further exclusion. I think the only reasonable response there, much like if, say, ISIS wanted to join in on your coalition because they were also pro universal healthcare or something, would be "we neither want nor need their help, and they can fuck off."
Aside - I'm not sure where you got hung up on this idea that anybody said that someone should give up on a goal if a group like white supremacists also have that goal. You kept pushing that in the politics thread, but you were the only one who ever said it, and you kept doubling down on it when myself and others tried to point out to you that nobody else was talking about that. That's a common thing with you, basing your arguments on something that nobody else said and fiercely sticking to your guns as you argue with only yourself, what's up with that?
Uhhh... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_...right_politics
Let's also not forget Paul Gosar.
That's nonsense. The default state here is pride in white males - look at the vast majority of statues, holidays, Mt. Rushmore, etc etc etc. Having "white pride" rallies is a lot like "blue lives matter": It's the default state and it exists only to further the status quo. Everybody knows blue lives matter - when a police officer is killed in the line of duty, the police response is overwhelming, there's tons of news coverage, funerals get carried live on TV. When some black guy gets killed, you're lucky if it makes the news at all. That's why "Black Lives Matter" is important, because a lot of people literally treat a lot of black lives like they *don't* matter. Very few people do the same with cops.
Can you give an example of this 'politically correct theory' being taught in schools? Can you give an example of, say, Dave Chappelle getting cancelled? How about pretty much anybody being "cancelled"?
‘Politically correct theory’ is just something I coined and it’s should be very apparent that in most universities and even quite pervasive in our culture already.
Dave Chappelle is not under threat of cancellation? You also know how I thought cancellation of senator Al Franken was pretty stupid. Jordan Peterson fighting against the law compelling people to use certain pronouns was being viewed as him being hateful… but that’s Canada, let forget about that for now…
These are the kind of stupid fights we don’t really need to have!
Back to our original discussion, I don’t mind ISIS fighting along side me for a common cause. ISIS better not tell me that this is ‘their’ cause. If they wish to hijack the cause and make it theirs, then I’ll fuck them off too. However, the more important issue really should be winning the cause.
We can’t claim to be a free and diverse society if we selectively pick and choose who can join. Intolerance is intolerance. Be open about it. Let stupid ideas naturally die off by themselves! Harsh ‘bans’ rarely works… Didn’t work for alcohol, drugs nor terrorism… lastly, what are we to do with fellow Americans who got suckered into believing stupid ideas? Similar to Americans got sucked under poverty line, we ought to find ways to help them out, rather than cast them away in Florida!
Especially in universities, there ought to be opened intellectual discussions rather than just outright ban for pretty much most conservative speakers.
If your idea is so superior, why can’t others bring up other ideas? We don’t all have to agree on everything but at least to me, it felt like most liberals cannot handle other ideas very well. Things will quickly degenerate into accusing the other person as some sort of phobe.
An back to KR, I really thought he’s just a white supremacist and really had no desire to get to know him until recently in this forum… that’s when I realized he didn’t kill any black lives! So how does he become a white supremacist? It’s just a tag the left gave him. I also learned that KR is actual a fan of Andrew Yang! He also declared himself as a BLM supporter on FOX! He only votes Trump because who else is he going to vote for in our 2party system? I also learned that the liberal group in ASU want the school to expel KR the mass shooter…
Okay, so the right likes alternate facts, but the left wants alternate verdicts now? I really don’t think we need to have Cancel Court around.
To me at least the jurors have been consistent. The losing side is the more aggressive/chasers. The videos are pretty clear who’s being chased and attacked 1st in both KR and Artery’s case and the jurors decided accordingly.
Look, conservatively guessing, let’s assume we have 2/3 of republicans as white supremacists… that means the other 1/3 might end up supporting a future Hitler because they have no other options to vote for.
So back to Andrew, if we can somehow get more than 2 parties going, I just don’t believe white supremacist could ever gain majority control. It’s not to the white supremacists advantage to help Andrew or help create other parties. So we also don’t need to have this hypothetical fight too!
Our current 2 party system is really killing us and forcing Americans into false dichotomy in pretty much every issue…
And to Neanderthal, I just want to say that the right is definitely more fucked up than the left. It’s just that this forum has already managed to exclude all those hateful righties so I can’t preach to them here!
Do you have an example? Also, what if it's not just politically correct but also just correct? What then?
No, I don't. He still is making tens of millions of dollars, still has a contract with Netflix, and was nominated for a Grammy. I don't know how you can get less cancelled by the mainstream than being nominated for a Grammy. He got criticized for his latest work. Some people wanted Netflix to pull it, but weren't calling for *all* his work to be pulled. He's not even remotely close to being "under the threat of cancellation." Al Franken wasn't cancelled, h's literally embarking on a comedy tour. Jordan Peterson isn't cancelled, he appears to be quite successful all things considered. Being criticized or losing your job isn't being "cancelled."
This is one we'll just have to disagree on. To me, it's morally reprehensible to accept their help.
1930s Germany would like a word with you.
As far as KR goes, there were two people were literally and irrevocably cancelled that night, and he's the one that did it.
Only the left? I wonder how most people (honestly, on both sides) would answer "Is OJ Simpson guilty of murder?" Mike Flynn and George Papadopoulos both plead guilty, but plenty of Trump supporters think they're innocent. It is incredibly common for people to disagree with verdicts, this isn't just a "left" thing.
Putting the discussion as to whether Trump is a white supremacist or supports them or whatever, I think it's really clear that one man with bad ideas *can* basically take control over the whole party. Even the "stronger" members of the party like Mitch McConnell and Lindsay Graham fall in line real fucking fast after they dare criticize dear leader.
For the record, I am also not a fan of the two party system, but that's basically how our political system generally shakes itself out. Unless we go with more of a parliamentary style system, I don't see that ever changing, just the parties themselves change every once in a while.
Finally, maybe that's a good use of this thread. When things start getting off the rails in another thread, just start something here and post a link to it in the other one to avoid just taking over the other thread.
Example of political correctness? Here's a dictionary example:
the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.
"women like him for his civil rights stand and political correctness"
Also pretty much every Ivy League school began because of Jesus, but today, are these universities more conservative or more liberal? Are you really going to tell me university students and professors are all politically neutral?
Isn't it clear that most 'intellectual prof and students' believe liberal ideology is 'correct'? Profs like Jordan Peterson can't possibly be the norm in Western universities.
Also, I believe the Bible is correct, but that doesn't mean I need to ban all other 'wrong' religious texts. We don't need to be like CCP and censor all the wrong things to protect the mass. Especially college level students. Do they have critical thinking skills to differentiate good or bad ideas or not? Why do they need such protection?
The cancel attempt wasn't that successful, doesn't mean nothing happened. I have no problems with critics, but if you believe he was only 'criticized' and nothing more... then let's just agree to disagree right there. I just think if it was Senator Chappelle in congress, maybe he'll be able to manage to save his seat from the dems. Al was just a bit too slow, maybe too old, to fight back IMHO.No, I don't. He still is making tens of millions of dollars, still has a contract with Netflix, and was nominated for a Grammy. I don't know how you can get less cancelled by the mainstream than being nominated for a Grammy. He got criticized for his latest work. Some people wanted Netflix to pull it, but weren't calling for *all* his work to be pulled. He's not even remotely close to being "under the threat of cancellation." Al Franken wasn't cancelled, h's literally embarking on a comedy tour. Jordan Peterson isn't cancelled, he appears to be quite successful all things considered. Being criticized or losing your job isn't being "cancelled."
I can respect that, but please just don't judge others when they fight side by side against some sort of existential threat.This is one we'll just have to disagree on. To me, it's morally reprehensible to accept their help.
The rest of the world was fucking with the Germans...making them pay for their past sins... because they're just such hateful assholes...1930s Germany would like a word with you.
Just as today, we are now fucking with the Rednecks... making them pay for their slave owning past... because they're just a bunch hopeless assholes...
When a groups of folks are miserable and suffering and a guy offered to help make them great again... it'd sound very appealing.
We need to learn to give people some breaks okay? Stop creating the conditions that help people like Hitler and Trump to gain popularity. The hunt for the rednecks need to stop. IMHO, most privileged white people live in blue states. From Elon to Jeff..., these asshole white privileged billionaires didn't exploit anybody in red states.
KR shouldn't be guarding stores that ain't his... and those protesters should not be chasing a kid with rifles. 2 wrongs will never make anything right.As far as KR goes, there were two people were literally and irrevocably cancelled that night, and he's the one that did it.
There's no argument there. We can't laugh at their alternate facts if we believe in alternate verdicts. Disagreeing on verdict is one thing, but to actively push somebody out of an university is quite another... not to mention KR is attending online and would not be able to shoot any of his classmates.Only the left? I wonder how most people (honestly, on both sides) would answer "Is OJ Simpson guilty of murder?" Mike Flynn and George Papadopoulos both plead guilty, but plenty of Trump supporters think they're innocent. It is incredibly common for people to disagree with verdicts, this isn't just a "left" thing.
no disagreement there. This is why we need more than just 2 major parties.Putting the discussion as to whether Trump is a white supremacist or supports them or whatever, I think it's really clear that one man with bad ideas *can* basically take control over the whole party. Even the "stronger" members of the party like Mitch McConnell and Lindsay Graham fall in line real fucking fast after they dare criticize dear leader.
No disagreement there either.For the record, I am also not a fan of the two party system, but that's basically how our political system generally shakes itself out. Unless we go with more of a parliamentary style system, I don't see that ever changing, just the parties themselves change every once in a while.
Yeah, I don't agree with the Kid and not sure if he's interested in political discussions at all, but he does have a point... RWA probably shouldn't be eating that much salad.Finally, maybe that's a good use of this thread. When things start getting off the rails in another thread, just start something here and post a link to it in the other one to avoid just taking over the other thread.
Still, I wish Americans can engage in more 'discussions', not just fights. It's all too easy for us to just shut others who disagree with us down. I know we don't actively ban conservatives in this forum, but have you considered why all the conservative GTXFers all would just either be quiet or just leave?
Aren't liberals supposed to be more diverse and tolerant?
The ideology of not tolerating those who are intolerant is just dangerous. Just label somebody as hateful and intolerant... voila! Now you are justified to hate somebody! yeah!
I really believed the media that KR is a white supremacist! I guess if you love guns and carry a rifle, white supremacist you are!?!?
I'm grateful for the heroic protesters who sacrificed themselves to tried to protect us from white vigilantes.
Storefronts are all insured. White vigilantes should all just stay home and let us rob these stores?
Not trying to stop people from protesting in middle of the night, but do you see why I'd prefer peaceful day time protests?
Currently both sides can only see the other sides' shortcomings, but totally blind to their own faults. We already know the limitation of such bipolar 2 party system, let's please try to be careful not to fall into this trap ourselves.
Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; November 29th, 2021 at 11:54 AM.
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