Religion

[Crazed_Insanity]

Its not like we are talking about New Zealand being the dominant power.

Christchurch is only in name only, with only 38% of the population being Christians. Amongst those who actually believe Christ can really help them in this world is probably also a minority of that 38%. NZers are reaping the benefits of their Christian ancestors. They probably had laid a good foundation for them.

Had NZ remained faithful and maintained their Zeal for Christ, my ‘hypothesis’ is that they could very well be like prime of Great Britain… and be a world dominant nation… being in the ‘Middle of the Earth’…

Anyway, I think you just have a biased against Christianity. Can we ignore Christianity for now and try to formulate our own hypothesis?

How does a nation become a 1st world nation? What are the main gradients necessary? Why couldn’t the Chinese and Indians achieve that with such huge population and large land mass?

[Crazed_Insanity]

BLAH BLAH - your opinion is worth 0.
If you want to quit your job and actually go research this (not just google, but actually get involved) then come back and have something worth saying.

This is a bigger issue - its people who have negligible knowledge and experience doubting expert opinion.
Not sure if its mistrust of authority (both govt and scientific) or a misguided confidence in their own opinion.

You continually give the "but its not certain" as some validation for your opinion (or you accepting some other non-expert opinion).
Its your right to do so, but why??
We have experts who put time and effort in, then people like you ignore them. And its certainly not for scientific or evidence based reasons. You ignore them due to wanting to believe something else is true. You want to believe there is a cover up. Thats it. Not "Ive seen the evidence", its just your gut vs experts.

I don’t want to continue to derail the pandemic thread, so moving this here.

1st off, I’d concede experts are almost always more right than me. I don’t have a need to always feel that I’m better than the expert.

But you have to admit once trust is compromised, average people will find it more difficult to believe Boeing 737 Max plane is safe… given that Boeing had great successes in the past and FAA totally approved it! Look at how safe air travel is! How many flights each day… 2 crashes out of that many is almost nothing right? Why not just trust Boeing and FAA know what they’re doing even if we couldn’t find the black boxes? Leave the planes alone leave the CEO alone?

Even experts can screw up and be compromised, right? Even churches!

When Pope was corrupted, it led the western world into the dark ages. When Boeing was corrupted, planes fall off the skies. Blind trust given to these huge systems will result in huge failures.

I’m not making the claim that I can interpret the Bible better than the pope. I’m not making the claim that I’m better than experts! I’m not even saying that my opinion is 100% right! I could definitely be wrong. Same with the gospel. I have faith in Christ, but do I have solid evidences of existence of Jesus? No. So naturally I could be wrong about existence of Jesus, but I don’t think following the teaching of Jesus would harm me or others. I may not be totally evidence based, but I do base it on whether if this is good or bad for me and for this world.

You might say it’s stupid Christians like you who’d take away abortion rights! That’s harmful! Well yeah, but not all Christians share the same exact ’opinions’. I believe God still want us to have free will though. Decisions should not be handed down just to the states, but should be further down to individual level.

I personally don’t mind average non-expert opinions because that’s kind of ‘free speech’ that I like. It shouldn’t be that none experts should just shut up. You yourself have experienced that there can be experts of distance galaxies who couldn’t figure out why we can’t see full moon during day time! Not to mention experts could be compromised in various ways. Remember it took a sub-average kid to point out to all the smart people that emperor has no cloths!

Anyway, point is, as I talk about the gospel, people don’t have to believe it or even listen to it if they don’t want to. Likewise, if I hear things new to me or things I don’t like, it’d be up to me to censor them myself, not the ‘system’. Nobody can shove any ‘speech’ down my throat. It’s up to me to swallow whatever I want. Thats the kind of free society I like to live in. People are free to talk, free to ignore, free to worship or not, free to choose how they want to live their lives. No need for a human Pope or Supreme System Expert telling me what I should do or not do.

[Rare White Ape]

Cardinal George Pell has died



Unfortunately it wasn't in prison though, like it should have been.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Could be worse! Could be in hell now stuck in that crab rave for all eternity!

[Rare White Ape]

A great many of my opinions on religion are reflected in their entirety in the video below. Essential viewing

[Crazed_Insanity]

I think you're too hung up on the political culture wars than the actual religion.

It's clear there's a bipartisan agreement that nobody likes pedophiles. However, our culture war tend to make us think all the pedophiles exist only on the 'other' side! Never on our side. To you, Catholic church is all about taking advantage of altar boys! To the Q believers, they believe all democrats are doing the same!

At least the Jesus I know isn't about just covering up sinners and pretend that nothing has happened... or to just condemn and crush sinners so that they go to hell and suffer for all eternity.

If Cardinal Pell is guilty, Jesus would want him to repent of his sins. If he truly does, then as his Lord, he will be the one taking up responsibility and be crucified so that Pell the repented sinner can live again. If he is unrepentant, then not even his Savior will be able to save him... and he will indeed rot in hell... and he'd pretty much lived his life as an hypocrite.

I have imagined myself as the adulterous woman who got caught and brought to Jesus as people are ready to judge and stone me to death.

Jesus won't just go along with the mob and stone me, a guilty sinner, to death.

Jesus also won't go along with another mob, praising me as if I did nothing wrong.

Jesus would want me to change and to sin no more and live a better fuller life. That's what Christianity is all about. To help people live better fuller lives. To remember to always maintain faith, hope and love regardless of circumstances.

Eulogies are usually about remember the dead guy by saying some good things about him. Surely there are something good from all of us... and surely there are some bad shit from all of us as well. In a funeral, should we just all focus on all the bad shit the dead guy has done? Or perhaps be more balanced and mention both good and bad?

Whatever. The guys is dead already. If you don't like the guy, don't attend his funeral. Don't say anything good and that should be enough. Rather than pass judgments, it's best we use them as lessons learned for us. How not to be like Adam and Eve. How not to be like King David... when others screw up, try to learn from that and don't screw it up for myself, or my family! We should also be more responsible and not see Catholic church as a day care center.

Nobody's perfect in this world. Our current culture war is all about seeing the bad about folks on the other side while ignoring problems on their own side. Jesus sees problems in all of us, yet he still loves us and he'll help us fix our problems and change for the better.

Western white world has obviously done a LOT of evils around the world. However, Western white world has also done a lot of good as well. What needs to be done isn't to just crush and destroy the entire western world and have a do over, but to learn what was done right and what was done wrong and then we try to do even better.

For sure Jesus did not teach Cardinal Pell to molest kids. So I'm not going to hate Jesus because of what Pell has done. I'm also not going to hate Jesus because there are a lot of Christians eulogizing Pell. The guy was convicted and is dead. It's probably time to move on... oh, and most importantly on my faith journey, I'm following Christ, not christians. It'd be nice to have other like minded folks' support along the way, but even if those supports are gone or perhaps even wrong, I shouldn't stop following the person who I want to follow in the first place. Religious faith must not be compelled by peer pressure!

[Rare White Ape]

Quoting this shit so that it’s preserved for all eternity.

Spoiler:

I think you're too hung up on the political culture wars than the actual religion.

It's clear there's a bipartisan agreement that nobody likes pedophiles. However, our culture war tend to make us think all the pedophiles exist only on the 'other' side! Never on our side. To you, Catholic church is all about taking advantage of altar boys! To the Q believers, they believe all democrats are doing the same!

At least the Jesus I know isn't about just covering up sinners and pretend that nothing has happened... or to just condemn and crush sinners so that they go to hell and suffer for all eternity.

If Cardinal Pell is guilty, Jesus would want him to repent of his sins. If he truly does, then as his Lord, he will be the one taking up responsibility and be crucified so that Pell the repented sinner can live again. If he is unrepentant, then not even his Savior will be able to save him... and he will indeed rot in hell... and he'd pretty much lived his life as an hypocrite.

I have imagined myself as the adulterous woman who got caught and brought to Jesus as people are ready to judge and stone me to death.

Jesus won't just go along with the mob and stone me, a guilty sinner, to death.

Jesus also won't go along with another mob, praising me as if I did nothing wrong.

Jesus would want me to change and to sin no more and live a better fuller life. That's what Christianity is all about. To help people live better fuller lives. To remember to always maintain faith, hope and love regardless of circumstances.

Eulogies are usually about remember the dead guy by saying some good things about him. Surely there are something good from all of us... and surely there are some bad shit from all of us as well. In a funeral, should we just all focus on all the bad shit the dead guy has done? Or perhaps be more balanced and mention both good and bad?

Whatever. The guys is dead already. If you don't like the guy, don't attend his funeral. Don't say anything good and that should be enough. Rather than pass judgments, it's best we use them as lessons learned for us. How not to be like Adam and Eve. How not to be like King David... when others screw up, try to learn from that and don't screw it up for myself, or my family! We should also be more responsible and not see Catholic church as a day care center.

Nobody's perfect in this world. Our current culture war is all about seeing the bad about folks on the other side while ignoring problems on their own side. Jesus sees problems in all of us, yet he still loves us and he'll help us fix our problems and change for the better.

Western white world has obviously done a LOT of evils around the world. However, Western white world has also done a lot of good as well. What needs to be done isn't to just crush and destroy the entire western world and have a do over, but to learn what was done right and what was done wrong and then we try to do even better.

For sure Jesus did not teach Cardinal Pell to molest kids. So I'm not going to hate Jesus because of what Pell has done. I'm also not going to hate Jesus because there are a lot of Christians eulogizing Pell. The guy was convicted and is dead. It's probably time to move on... oh, and most importantly on my faith journey, I'm following Christ, not christians. It'd be nice to have other like minded folks' support along the way, but even if those supports are gone or perhaps even wrong, I shouldn't stop following the person who I want to follow in the first place. Religious faith must not be compelled by peer pressure!

You state three things:

1. There’s a culture war between people who hate the paedos in the church and people who hate paedos in the not-church

2. Jesus won’t cover up any sins, but he will take full responsibility for them

3. He is dead so it’s time to move on

I shall address them thusly:

1. The culture war doesn’t exist. It is being pushed by conglomerate media to keep idiots distracted. You seem distracted by it.

Also: it’s actually true that the Catholic Church is filthy with paedophiles. I can name many of them, and some of them are even mentioned in that video. Can you name any democrats who have been convicted or even charged with child sex offences? A single one?

The assertion that Qanon types are fighting an equal war is complete nonsense because their claims aren’t true. The culture war doesn’t exist.

2. If Jesus is taking responsibility, that makes it fine, right? Pell was wrong to sin in this way, but Jesus is accepting responsibility for it, so Pell can just go on living life as long as he repents or whatever it is?

Jesus, as best as we can reasonably state, is probably a made-up person who might have lived 2000 years ago, and is taking the responsibility for the evil deeds done by a real human being who did horrible things to other real human beings by a divine transfer of guilt. And this man, who never publicly admitted his crimes and fought the real-world justice system at every step, got to go free because of this divine transfer of guilt?

Explain to me here why the church isn’t simply pedalling this shit for its own benefit.

3. I can easily move on, as soon as my 500 ml of piss splashes onto Pell’s grave. You probably already have moved on. Millions and billions of us will easily move on.

But there are people who can’t move on.

Unnamed dozens of child sexual abuse survivors who directly suffered under Pell’s watch, who haven’t committed suicide yet, or haven’t drank or injected themselves into an early grave yet. Hundreds more child sexual abuse survivors who suffered by the creepy tickling hand of other priests and senior church figures in Victoria and NSW who were employed in the church when Pell was in charge.

And the many unnamed thousands or tens of thousands of child sexual abuse survivors who suffered at the hands of the same church across the world.

And the thousands of others who suffered from child sexual abuse and DIDN’T survive.

None of them will ever see justice. Only pain. A real-world physiological response to trauma that cannot be washed away by a divine transfer of guilt or granting of forgiveness.

These are the people we should be talking about and remembering at Pell’s funeral.

One way in which these survivors can find forgiveness is if we all chip in and help them raze the entire catholic institution, burn its churches to the ground, and hang all of its priests. Yeah, you could put the effort in to only finding the guilty priests, but…

I’d say round up all the “innocent” “good” priests too. They might say “I didn’t molest any kids, I’m a GOOD priest” but I might say, yeah, well, you served in the church while all this was going on around you but you didn’t do anything to fix the problem, but that’s ok I forgive you and Jesus has already died for your sins.

No I won’t, just kidding! I’d say here’s a noose for your neck, now run along you little scamp, the lamp posts are outside and to the left.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I have re-edit stuffs to fix my typos, but I've never deleted anything that I said retroactively so don't worry okay?

1. The culture war doesn’t exist. It is being pushed by conglomerate media to keep idiots distracted. You seem distracted by it.

Also: it’s actually true that the Catholic Church is filthy with paedophiles. I can name many of them, and some of them are even mentioned in that video. Can you name any democrats who have been convicted or even charged with child sex offences? A single one?

The assertion that Qanon types are fighting an equal war is complete nonsense because their claims aren’t true. The culture war doesn’t exist.


I think it's clear we are getting way more polarized than before and each side is getting more extreme than ever before. I don't know who orchestrated it intentionally or perhaps things just progressed 'naturally'..., but people's political views are getting way out of whack and we're hearing more and more of those whacky views and deeds than ever before thanks to our information age. My position has always been trying to 'both side' issues..., which was never the popular position because you'll be hated by both sides. But I do believe that is the freaking reality people need to face. It's not always pro-life nor always pro-choice... we need BOTH and depending on the situation, we'll have to make adjustments between to two. Can't goto extremes to always lockdown or to just go all free and crazy.

I think there's no question that there are screwed up things happening in the Catholic church in the past and likely in the future. After all, it's made up of humans. It led the Western world into the dark ages before. It's obviously not perfect. BTW, I'm not really Catholic so I'm not trying to defend the church or being a sympathizer of any sort, but Catholic church has also done some good too. It did not exist simply to abuse altar boys. That was NOT what Jesus taught us to do.

Can Q's BS be justified? No, not really. But Jeff Epstein did show us it's not just the Catholic church taking advantage of young children. Do I have proof? No I don't. The guy died. If you really don't believe there's a culture war, then so be it. The right picking on Greta is just a climate war. The right wish to MAGA is just a nationalist war. We can just ignore those evidences as proof that there's a culture war? Anyway, whether we have this culture war or not isn't important. I just want people of both sides to be able to work together again.

2. If Jesus is taking responsibility, that makes it fine, right? Pell was wrong to sin in this way, but Jesus is accepting responsibility for it, so Pell can just go on living life as long as he repents or whatever it is?

Jesus, as best as we can reasonably state, is probably a made-up person who might have lived 2000 years ago, and is taking the responsibility for the evil deeds done by a real human being who did horrible things to other real human beings by a divine transfer of guilt. And this man, who never publicly admitted his crimes and fought the real-world justice system at every step, got to go free because of this divine transfer of guilt?

Explain to me here why the church isn’t simply pedalling this shit for its own benefit.
Jesus just doesn't believe in cancel culture... that bad deeds alone shouldn't be grounds to enough to burn a man for all eternity. After all, he knows none of us are perfect. If that is the way, every one of us will end up burning in hell. Anyway, let's just go with your assumption that Jesus isn't real. There's no Jesus. Without Jesus, there also shouldn't be any churches. Catholic church is simply an organization of some sort.

So when a man got accused of doing a crime... and then convicted and then sentenced and then served time in prison... and that's that, right?

Do you think his punishment isn't enough? Then take that up to your legal system and the judge! Why is that the fault of a bogus non-existing man? Did the Catholic organization corrupt the legal system? Then let's fight the system! Make sure things are not corrupt.

All these issues are really all man made. If you were the king of Australia, what would you have done that's the most equitable?

Now, let me try to explain why Jesus is pedalling this so called 'shit'. He wants sinners to repent and change and do better. Not just doing 'shit' that hurts self or others. If a sinner is truly unrepentant, he's not going to crucify himself for them. If sinners are determined to continue their evil ways, then Jesus will judge them accordingly.

For you 3rd point, I'm not going to bother to quote them. If you feel like pissing on his grave, go right ahead.

As for moving on..., even for the actual victims, they will have to try to move on too. If we refuse to forgive and continue to wallow in pain, it will end up hurting ourselves too.

Lastly, you think all priests are guilty, is that really true? Like I said, the entire white western world has done lots of evils around the world too. Unless you're really just an ape, you're guilty too? What have you done to change to stop the white western nations from messing around with folks in other worlds? And is the only way to change is to destroy the West or its religion?

Best way forward is to problem solve. By getting rid of Christianity will really solve humanity's problems? By getting rid of white priests will really solve the problems?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm so excited about this new movie which is based on a true story set in SoCal during the 70's... It was kind of a dark time for America back then... stupid war going on, political/racial divide, anti-establishment sentiments, but supposedly God was able to bring about a revival and help folks come together. I was too young and not even in America to actually witness it, but glad to be able to see it in a movie at least!

Of course I pray that I can actually live thru another revival during my lifetime...

[Crazed_Insanity]

There’s being the devil’s advocate, and then there’s morally bankrupt side-stepping until they themselves become the thing. He is all about the love and forgiveness promoted in his Sunday morality club but has no ability to recognise that maybe some people do not deserve forgiveness of any kind, and thus his talent for critical thought is forever skewed.

They say the nazis you need to fear most are not the ones in government. It’s the ones next door.

Use the ignore feature. You know I do!

I think this thread is probably more appropriate to address your morality or forgiveness concerns...

God can definitely forgive all sins, even Hitler's; however, that sinner himself would have to repent though. Even Almighty God is powerless to forgive sins of an unrepentant sinner.

On a more personal level, forgiveness is also good medicine for our own soul. Why hold such bitterness and grudge against some of the folks who have wronged you and perhaps didn't even know about it. It's definitely not easy, but I try hard to let those hard feelings go. Of course I do try not to completely forget and allow myself to be in a situation to be hurt again.

Anyway, my Lord told me to love my neighbors, even to love your enemies. So I'll try hard to follow that.

Lastly, just so it's clear, Jesus has also warned us to be aware of evil and not just tolerate that.

Hence the saying love the sinner, but not the sins.

Every human being is lovable in some ways. Of course every human being also has his or her own issues that needs to be addressed...

Back in the days, the conservatives were called Pharisees and the liberals were called Sadducee. Jesus really disliked both parties. However, Jesus loves all of them as human beings though.