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Thread: Religion

  1. #11
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    Yeah, as we've seen time and time again, how you ask the questions can affect the result of your survey too.

    Anyway, I think I've mentioned this before, this forgetting about God trend as we achieve better standard of living is even recorded in the bible. People are naturally like that. When we are doing well, we don't need God anymore. Most so called 'believers' don't really love God. They only love God's blessings. Only when time gets tough and after we tried out all options and exhausted..., then perhaps we'll remember that perhaps God can help? Of course, there are also those with hardened hearts probably will only remember to blame God for the bad things that's happening to them... basically believing that there's no God when time's good... and believing God is an asshole when time gets rough.

    Anywho, if Christianity is really just the world's most successful ponzi scheme, then I have no doubt it'll eventually come crumbling down just like other mythologies and fall into irrelevance. Nothing bogus can last forever. However, 'religion' itself probably won't ever go away though. Just as the survey showed, people giving up on Jesus don't all become materialistic atheists. There are still a LOT of 'spiritual folks' who can end up believing in whatever else that suits them. A lot of them are probably just sick of organized religion, but far from atheists.

    If one day we can get rid of prostitution, drugs, war, etc, then perhaps religion will also eventually go. Now, I'm not implying it's religion that caused all those other things, it's just that those things are part of our human condition. Paradoxically, yes, we're a bunch of fucked up people, and at the same time, wonderful too. At least according to my belief, Jesus saw our redeeming value that's why he came to save us out of our fucked-up-ness. Otherwise, God could've just wiped us all out and cut us off like cancerous tumor. If I were God, yeah, I'd probably give up on humanity long ago. But good thing I'm not God... and I'm still in awe of how amazing this God is.
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; March 14th, 2014 at 10:18 AM.

  2. #12
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    Random related thought: I think I still use "come to Jesus moment" as a general term of someone having a great realization that will make them decide to change whatever it is about them.

    Also: Deathbed Christians, etc.

    Also: When people have nothing else they feel like they can believe in, they often find religion so they have *something.*

    I would argue, though, that it's more related to so many questions being answered by science, and critical, skeptical thinking being so much more common and celebrated as our society ages, than just the fact that people are doing better. As one of my coworkers put so well, he was growing up in the 60s, where so many powerful figures in the US were being found out to be corrupt/liars/etc. I assume the same thing has happened at some point all over the world, and questioning what you're told just leads to more questioning.

    Also: plenty of successful people thank God for their success, if they believed in God on their path to success.

    Somewhat off the wall: during the first episode of the new Cosmos series, they talk about Giordano Bruno, one of the first people documented to posit that all the stars were actually suns for other planets like ours. He didn't take that to mean there was no God, but that he wanted to believe in a God that was so infinite that he could create an infinite universe. That mindset, of finding new information and being accepting and welcoming of it, even without yet having the proof needed to fully explain or understand it, is incredibly admirable and sorely missing in most people of all demographics and beliefs.
    Get that weak shit off my track

  3. #13
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    There have been numerous studies done on the biological basis of religion, and I believe it's generally agreed upon that human beings are hardwired to have faith. We are genetically predisposed to believe in things we cannot prove, and that is probably a significant element in our ongoing success as a species. Without the ability to make illogical, unreasonable leaps our development would have been massively hindered and probably cut seriously short. If you cannot act without being able to prove the possibility of success, your species isn't going to get very far.

    Some have argued that we were wired this way by an all-powerful being as a way for us to have a relationship with him/her, and some have argued that men/women have intentionally or accidentally identified this capability and used/exploited it for their own gain. The bottom line is, there is a scientifically identifiable part of our brains that allow us to think/feel/behave differently - irrationally - than all other animals. That's special. What you do with that part of your brain is possibly not up to you, but almost certainly influenced by a number of cultural, familial, and environmental factors. It is probably also influenced by other components of our more basic animal psychology - such fear of the unknown or different, the need for basic comfort (food, sleep, etc.), and of course self-preservation.

    The balance of all these things varies dramatically from person to person, as does the threshold for concern, worry, and acceptance. I might see an impossible jump to the other side, you might see a difficult but possible leap. I might see another person with two arms and two legs, you might see a monster with different colored skin and eyes. I might see a system of gravities and rotations, you might see an all-powerful being working his or her magic. The part of our brain that is faith plays a significant part in making those determinations - with no evidence of that other person's intentions, no device with which to measure the gap, and no system with which to observe the universe we are still able to form opinions and beliefs about them, because at the core we all have a function which lets us do that.

    There are probably a large number of people whose beliefs can be swayed one direction or another, but there are certainly a number of people whose beliefs cannot. And each member of that latter group is absolutely convinced they are right, and there is neither a logical argument nor a discussion of alternate faith that is going to sway them. It doesn't matter what we as a society can prove or disprove, that faith structure is genetic, it's physical, and it's set. We are born able to believe, but we learn how to explain. You're not going to change genetics with explanation. That's my $0.02.
    Last edited by thesameguy; March 14th, 2014 at 11:00 AM.

  4. #14
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    [ /thread over ]

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    how you ask the questions can affect the result of your survey too.
    Really? Who wouldavethunk it, heh! Certainly not professional researchers I'm guessing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    People are naturally like that. When we are doing well, we don't need God anymore.
    Ever heard of a certain Osama Bin Laden?, he was a construction billionaire with ties to the House of Saud. I'd say he was well off and I'm pretty certain he was deeply religious. How about ECyD, you think it's inner city kids enrolled in those programs?
    Broad characterizations are seldom something other than a projection of our own fears.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    if Christianity is really just the world's most successful ponzi scheme, then I have no doubt it'll eventually come crumbling down just like other mythologies and fall into irrelevance.
    Ponzi schemes benefit only those at the top of the pyramid. I'm pretty sure Christianity, the social movement, is far more complex than that.
    Did all those other mythologies crumble into irrelevance? The government of the country you call home has pretty much sold itself as the reformation of the Roman Republic and the Greek Senate. And isn't the post-roman Christian religion an amalgamation of really old Mediterranean traditions around a core doctrine of reciprocity that originated in Central Asia thousands of years ago?
    Again, there's culture, art, social forms, economic and ethical dimensions to the ponzi scheme. In an effort to grasp all this concepts at once, You oversimplify things that need a lil bit more attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    If one day we can get rid of prostitution, drugs, war, etc, then perhaps religion will also eventually go. Now, I'm not implying it's religion that caused all those other things, it's just that those things are part of our human condition.
    I wasn't born a prostitute nor a soldier. Human condition has nothing to do with that. Social relations do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    we're a bunch of fucked up people
    You've got issues if that's how you see the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    At least according to my belief, Jesus saw our redeeming value that's why he came to save us out of our fucked-up-ness. Otherwise, God could've just wiped us all out and cut us off like cancerous tumor. If I were God, yeah, I'd probably give up on humanity long ago. But good thing I'm not God... and I'm still in awe of how amazing this God is.
    I'm still amazed of how awesome my fellow men and women are. After all, they made God in their image.
    acket.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaultyMario View Post
    Ever heard of a certain Osama Bin Laden?, he was a construction billionaire with ties to the House of Saud. I'd say he was well off and I'm pretty certain he was deeply religious. How about ECyD, you think it's inner city kids enrolled in those programs?
    Broad characterizations are seldom something other than a projection of our own fears.
    Do you really believe Osama Bin Laden is an average believer? That he's the 'average' person that'd follow a certain 'trend'? Why do you think my broad characterization would apply to EVERYONE. Did I also make that claim that one absolutely must be fucking dirt poor in order to have faith?


    Ponzi schemes benefit only those at the top of the pyramid. I'm pretty sure Christianity, the social movement, is far more complex than that.
    Did all those other mythologies crumble into irrelevance? The government of the country you call home has pretty much sold itself as the reformation of the Roman Republic and the Greek Senate. And isn't the post-roman Christian religion an amalgamation of really old Mediterranean traditions around a core doctrine of reciprocity that originated in Central Asia thousands of years ago?
    Again, there's culture, art, social forms, economic and ethical dimensions to the ponzi scheme. In an effort to grasp all this concepts at once, You oversimplify things that need a lil bit more attention.
    Greek mythology is gone. Lots of European mythologies are gone. Buddhism is still around and is a well respected religion and had huge influence in China and asia in general. But how relevant is it? Just as relevant as the so called 'Christians' who wouldn't attend church services other than during perhaps Easter and Christmas. However, key difference between Christianity and Buddhism and even Hinduism is that you can see thru history that which God blesses the people more.



    I wasn't born a prostitute nor a soldier. Human condition has nothing to do with that. Social relations do.
    We're social animals. We are fucked up at times. You cannot acknowledge that?



    You've got issues if that's how you see the world.
    Is this thread about me? Why don't you express your own view about religion rather than just focusing on me? I also don't expect you to agree with whatever the hell I said. If you got a problem with my issues, wanna help me fix my issues? We all have issues. I don't think I need you to point them out to me unless you're ready to help me.


    I'm still amazed of how awesome my fellow men and women are. After all, they made God in their image.
    I can certainly agree with you on this one. However, do you disagree with that the Original is superior than the copies? Or do you insist that Jesus your supposed Lord and Savior still have his own issues and just as imperfect as us?
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; March 14th, 2014 at 12:08 PM.

  7. #17
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    And heeeeeere we go!!!

  8. #18
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    Obviously you started this thread with the hope of seeing me talk about the bible more. I will do my best. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask them yourself too. If you're too chicken to participate, then at least have your popcorn ready I guess. Cheers.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    "The highest percentage of Christians was found in the North East of England, where 1.8 million worshippers represented 68% of residents."

    England's Alabama, ladies and gentlemen.
    Fucking Southerners.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    Obviously you started this thread with the hope of seeing me talk about the bible more. I will do my best. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask them yourself too. If you're too chicken to participate, then at least have your popcorn ready I guess. Cheers.
    ...
    At first I was going to say that you've completely missed the point on the entire thread.
    ...
    Then I thought that you were probably just trolling.
    ...
    But now that I think about it, I may be giving you too much credit, and my first thought was probably right all along.

    Always believe your first instinct.

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