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Thread: Politics

  1. #11291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Billi, I'm going to explain this again. But only once.

    I don't necessarily agree that Franken should have lost his seat. I'd personally prefer he didn't, but not traditionally having been the recipient of sexual harassment, I don't know that it's my place to choose that. I didn't say that's the only way it should be solved (though if you figure you've got only 100 people out of the entire country in the senate, ideally you can find 100 competent lawmakers that haven't done questionable things and still be in pretty good shape).

    I said that the fact that he was a senator and that the "left" would "lose a senate seat" is a really shitty argument for why not to do something. If there's a problem, saying "oh, but the consequences would be too bothersome" is the very crux of the problem: Power allows people to do bad things to people with less power and get away with it. I'd say that argument was about as good as "But there are a lot of really great Weinstein movies!"
    Ignoring Billi, the problem with the timing of this is that it would feel like a double standard if Franken was convinced to keep his seat while others on the GOP side were pushed out for the same thing.

    Now, there is an argument that could be made regarding innocent until proven guilty, but apparently Franken felt it wasn't worth the effort, or there was something to the allegations (I think he had some questionable videos during his comedy acts as well).
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  2. #11292
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    Personally, I'd like full investigations of these accusations. It'd also be nice to also charge those who assisted or knew and helped covered it up. Just as discussed in our gun control thread, if mass shooter used your gun, you should also be some what responsible. Likewise, those who helped Harvey or Cosby or Al or whoever covered shit up must also be held responsible too! These predators don't just become that overnight. There are enablers.

    Everyone's responsible to stop this shit, rather than expecting simple removal of these predators will solve problems once and for all.

    Not to mention our current willingness to remove even those falsely accused.

    Considering how many centuries women had been abused by powerful men, this is a small price to pay?

  3. #11293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    Spoiler:
    I'm not excusing what's going on on the right.

    Both left and right are going off the deep end IMHO.

    General consensus seems to be, how can you blame us? Look at the other side!!! They are more fucked up than us! They need to fix themselves 1st...

    All the while both sides continue to rot to the core... the right is not full blown nazi yet and the left isn't complete commies yet, but both continue to make progress in their respective directions. Scary.


    Ah, but when there was a whiff of impropriety of sexual assault by a Democratic Senator (Franken) the Democrats made him resign. There was a fucking chorus of condemnation from. the. left.

    Meanwhile Trump, a rapist (his first wife wrote in her book that he committed marital rape) and serial sexual assaulter (16 known!) remains in office, as yet uncriticised or excoriated by the vast majority of the conservatives. This is why we can call them names like accurately call them "hypocrite" in light of their so called morality they espouse but fail to demonstrate.
    Do we need to go into the rest of the consevative politicians who have sexual assault, or other assault, stigma linked to them? Because only two of several, (Greitens only very recently) have resigned, and, their cohorts were mostly quiet about the inappropriateness of what they did. One resigned and didn't even pay back the hush money that taxpayers paid to his victim, from a fund specifically set up for that!

    Democratic politicians with stigma of that sort have been made to resign their office, by Democrats.

    But yeah, lets keep bleating that "both parties are the same" thing that you like to repeat when you can't formulate an actual argument.

    Calling someone a hypocrite because they are being hypocritical is not being mean. It's being factual.

    Calling Trump a liar because he is lying is not attacking him. And defending him, his lies, is enabling him. Calling him a racist because of things he has said (Mexicans are rapists," those animals" in reference to MS-13, "fine people on both sides" when referring to literal Nazis, Muslims hate us etc) things he has done (his conduct with the widow of Jeremiah Johnson, the failure with Puerto Rico, his reticence to honor James Shaw etc) is not being mean. It's being factual. And failing to condemn him for such is enabling him, making those who fail to condemn him complicit as racists. When you do nothing to remove the burden of oppression on another, and stand idly by, well congratulations, you've just participated in that oppression. And speaking out against racism is the bare minimum. It costs literally nothing.

    Lets talk misogyny. When, ... ah fuck it.

    I have better things to do than sit here and teach you basic human fucking decency.
    Last edited by neanderthal; May 31st, 2018 at 09:45 PM.

  4. #11294
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    I don't agree with Trump's sexual whatevers... he really should NOT be president. However, I also don't agree with democrats just chopped off Al's dick simply on a whiff of impropriety. You don't think there ought to be a more reasonable and decent middle ground somewhere?

    I actually do agree with you in some regard that I don't believe it's just the fault of those powerful sexual predators. Rather than only catch them, we need to penalize their minions who enabled them too.

    As for racist rants, until the rise of Trump the orangutan, I thought it's out of fashion already, unfortunately it's coming back and becoming more overt. I don't really know why, but maybe political correctness is just not suited for us humans. Similarly the feminist movement now has caused incredible popularity of 50 shades of grey. When you suppress one human emotion too much, some form of passive aggressiveness reaction usually will come out.

    Rosane should've been given few warnings. If she continues, then she has proven herself that she's not suited for prime time. However, if she's genuinely apologetic and modifies her behavior, wouldn't that be better? A true teaching moment is one that gives the student a 2nd chance. Not just be thrown under the bus. Wouldn't that be the more decent thing to do? Jimmy kimmel was being pretty decent but instead he's being roasted.

    Anyway, I just want the 2 sides to be able to get along, but instead they are growing faster and further apart.

    This kind of polarization seriously doesn't worry you guys? Do you really think the widening gap is only being caused by the other side?
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; May 31st, 2018 at 10:31 PM.

  5. #11295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    Spoiler:
    I actually do agree with you in that regard, just as I don't believe it's just the fault of those powerful sexual predators. Rather than only catch them, we need to penalize their minions who enabled them too.

    As for racist rants, until the rise of Trump the orangutan, I thought it's out of fashion already, unfortunately it's coming back and becoming more overt. I don't really know why, but maybe political correctness is just not suited for us humans. Similarly the feminist movement now has caused incredible popularity of 50 shades of grey. When you suppress one human emotion too much, some form of passive aggressiveness reaction usually will come out.

    Rosane should've been given few warnings. If she continues, then she has proven herself that she's not suited for prime time. However, if she's genuinely apologetic and modifies her behavior, wouldn't that be better? A true teaching moment is one that gives the student a 2nd chance. Not just be thrown under the bus. Wouldn't that be the more decent thing to do? Jimmy kimmel was being pretty decent but instead he's being roasted.

    Anyway, I just want the 2 sides to be able to get along, but instead they are growing faster and further apart.

    This kind of polarization seriously doesn't worry you guys? Do you really think the widening gap is only being caused by the other side?


    Dude, Bernstein and Bill Cosby's driver/ assistant/ whoever DID NOT sexually assault anybody!!! (I could be wrong!) Which "minions" do you think enabled them?

    And, the right has gone further and further right since the rise of the tea party. They've caused the rift by going batshit crazy.

  6. #11296
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    I don't understand. Read what you wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post
    And failing to condemn him for such is enabling him, making those who fail to condemn him complicit as racists. When you do nothing to remove the burden of oppression on another, and stand idly by, well congratulations, you've just participated in that oppression.
    I know those close to Bernstein or Cosby did not actually participate in the assaults, but if they just know and not report... perhaps even help him cover shit up, they've just participated in the assault too, no?

    Anyway, so okay, I got it. The left hasn't moved at all. Only the right are batshit crazy.

    You really don't think forcing a senator to resign based only on a whiff of impropriety, basically convict him without due process is a little bit crazy?

    You don't think it's perfectly fine to call a white person with orange hair an orangutan yet totally unforgivable to call a black person ape is kinda crazy?

    Maybe I'm the only crazy one.
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; May 31st, 2018 at 10:57 PM.

  7. #11297
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    There is a big difference between aides and employees, those who have power welded over them, and colleges, friends, financial supporters and business partners.
    If someone is acting bad it’s hard to blame their minions. But other people of power, they an afford to make a stand. Except usually greed gets in the way.
    Power makes a huge difference. Those with it should be held more accountable then those who act from under it.

  8. #11298
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    Of course, you shouldnt punish the father of the mass shooter the same as if he's the actual shooter. Weinstein employees also shouldn't be equally punished. Nazi minions shouldn't be punished just the same as Hitler, but they are still somewhat responsible too. Punishments need to fit the crime.

    People need to learn some responsibility. Can't just shift blame that my boss made me do it or Satan made me do it or God made me do it...

  9. #11299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    Spoiler:
    I don't understand. Read what you wrote:



    I know those close to Bernstein or Cosby did not actually participate in the assaults, but if they just know and not report... perhaps even help him cover shit up, they've just participated in the assault too, no?

    Anyway, so okay, I got it. The left hasn't moved at all. Only the right are batshit crazy.

    You really don't think forcing a senator to resign based only on a whiff of impropriety, basically convict him without due process is a little bit crazy?

    You don't think it's perfectly fine to call a white person with orange hair an orangutan yet totally unforgivable to call a black person ape is kinda crazy?

    Maybe I'm the only crazy one.


    Ahhh, so you *refuse to consider* the historical racist context of demeaning and dehumanising black people by calling them monkeys, apes, baboons etc but you choose to see me calling Trump (a man with a decidedly unnatural orange pallor) as something that is offensive?

    I'll call him a shitgibbon then. Happy?

    There wasn't a mere whiff of impropriety, there was *evidence* of such. Perhaps that fact flew beneath your cognisance; like the historical use of dehumanising black people by calling them simians. And, we liberals tend to hold our politicians to a standard, a code of conduct as it were. But, i see you're not offended/ troubled by the conservatives inability/ inaction/ impotence as it comes to policing their politicians. Yet they espouse they hold the morality and family values high ground. Again, here you are checking me, an avowed left of center liberal, for policing the actions of our left leaning politicians and not checking the conservatives on theirs. Why is that?

    Maybe you are indeed. Your myopic, addled thinkpieces don't have any seeming end point. No direction. No reflection. And no basis in reality, nuance, understanding, and mostly, fact.

  10. #11300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dicknose View Post
    There is a big difference between aides and employees, those who have power welded over them, and colleges, friends, financial supporters and business partners.
    If someone is acting bad it’s hard basically impossible to blame their minions, AS THEY AREN'T EQUALS. But other people of power, they an afford to make a stand. Except usually greed gets in the way.
    Power makes a huge difference. Those with it should be held more accountable then those who act from under it.
    This.

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