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Thread: Politics

  1. #10881
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    Using your metaphor, safety net...

    Safety net is in place to catch people when they fall.

    Should people really be on 'safety nets' permanently?

    If your healthy reasonably smart adult children just wish to live off of you and play games forever..., yeah, it's certainly nice to allow them the safe environment so that they won't starve or get into trouble. I have nothing against THAT point of your argument. Heck, your adults kids might have a very generous trust fund made available to them! However, my point is that being that NICE won't solve the real problems with people who refuse to get up.

    People have to learn to stand on their own feet. Even if you're born missing some limbs, find crutches, wheel chairs, robo-limbs... we don't have to just lay on the net for the rest of our lives. UBI will cause some people to never learn.

    People need to learn to aim higher than safety net. Again, nothing against safety nets, just that we can't allow people to stay on it forever. It's just unsafe for everyone.
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; February 6th, 2018 at 01:49 PM.

  2. #10882
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    My point is that there are some people that will refuse to get up, and you *have* to come up with what you'll do in that situation, and just saying "Well, I'll make them get up" isn't an answer. You *will* have people that either can't or won't work.

    My position is that it's patently unfair to reward those who won't work, but that it's ultimately better overall to take care of it early and proactively rather than reactively, in that I think it costs more to jail people or clean up homeless encampments and the health issues they cause than it does to just "reward" them for not doing anything. Another position is that it's okay to just let nature take its course with those people. I'm not saying either are right, though I have my position that I think makes more sense.

    But you have to pick one. You can't just say "Well, I'll make them." That's not an answer unless you're advocating slave/forced labor. It *sounds* to me like you're saying "If they don't do these things, then let them fall where they may.", which is essentially the republican platform right now (like requiring people to work to get medicaid). It's surprisingly un-Bernie like, at any rate.
    Last edited by Tom Servo; February 6th, 2018 at 01:52 PM.

  3. #10883
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    Anyway, I thought I've already stated that I am for free basic healthcare for all... only condition is that you are sick.

    Also, of course I'm not advocating slave labor. I do advocate free will. Likewise, I don't advocate shoving money down lazy people's throats.

    We are talking about able body folks who willingly choose to be lazy here, right? With regard to income for those types, let's just agree to disagree. I just think that this helping hand has to have a limit for those type of folks. I'm willing to pay extra, such as prison expenses, in order to help wake those folks up. Of course surely there can also be hippies like Jesus who can manage very well without handouts from Caesar.

    We need to help folks make the right choices in life, not all choices for them.

  4. #10884
    Recreational Gynecologist MR2 Fan's Avatar
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    My brief thought on this is that the main components of these fights are for greed and power...but those ideas are then manipulated into the media and other outlets.

    They start claiming there's an ideology difference and pitting us against each other instead of them who are actually pulling the strings.

    Edit: so my point is, ideology isn't the problem, it's greed and power
    Last edited by MR2 Fan; February 6th, 2018 at 02:48 PM.
    ║]=(86)=[║

  5. #10885
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    Spoiler:
    We are talking about able body folks who willingly choose to be lazy here, right? With regard to income for those types, let's just agree to disagree. I just think that this helping hand has to have a limit for those type of folks. I'm willing to pay extra, such as prison expenses, in order to help wake those folks up. Of course surely there can also be hippies like Jesus who can manage very well without handouts from Caesar.
    That is a significant element of what we're discussing here. I think you may find you side a lot closer with Paul Ryan than Bernie Sanders on that viewpoint, but that makes it no less valid of a viewpoint. My full appreciation for giving an answer!

  6. #10886
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR2 Fan View Post
    Edit: so my point is, ideology isn't the problem, it's greed and power
    Greed and power can naturally cause problem, no questions. However, thanks to capitalism, we can turn greed into our advantage for progress. We only have our constitution to try to check and balance powers...

    Now, I have to disagree that ideology isn't the problem. It sure can be!

    Who made the rule saying that if I'm a Bernie supporter, then I can't ever agree with Paul Ryan?

    Bible is pretty clear that we ought to feed the poor(socialistic), but it's also clear that if you don't work, you don't eat(conservative ideology)!

    Sometimes it takes both to solve problems, such as poverty, not just one or the other.

    We are better together. I am with Mrs Clinton regarding that slogan.

    Problem with any specific ideologies is that it's just not holistic enough..., when we become extremists of any specific ideologies, problems can arise. Our extreme polarization for sure is causing us big problems.
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; February 6th, 2018 at 03:11 PM.

  7. #10887
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    I feel like I'm unfamiliar with the part of the bible where Jesus decided not to help someone due to his lack of employment? It has been about 22 years since I last read the bible though, so I might be wrong.
    Last edited by Tom Servo; February 6th, 2018 at 03:54 PM.

  8. #10888
    High Plains Luddite George's Avatar
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    Was it when He said, "Blessed are the employed, for only they shall obtain healthcare"?


  9. #10889
    Senior Member Fogelhund's Avatar
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    And now good folks, A military parade for your banana republic.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...r-trump-report

    https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/10157924378236509/

    The Pentagon has reportedly begun planning a military parade at the request of President Trump.

    Trump repeatedly has expressed an interest in holding a display of America’s military might and upped his calls for a parade after witnessing the Bastille Day celebrations on a trip to France last summer.

    The Washington Post reported Tuesday that at a recent meeting between Trump and top military officials, Trump’s wishes were “suddenly heard as a presidential directive.”

    “The marching orders were: I want a parade like the one in France,” one military official told The Washington Post on the condition of anonymity. “This is being worked at the highest levels of the military.”
    Last edited by Fogelhund; February 6th, 2018 at 04:27 PM.

  10. #10890
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Kennedys
    Saying "Love it or leave it"
    I'll get beat up if I criticize it
    You say you'll fight to the death
    To save your useless flag
    If you want a banana republic that bad
    Why don't you go move to one?
    I want to fix that "your message is too short" thing when you quote.

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