Politics

[Tom Servo]

Not necessarily. It's like that thing about if Bill Gates walked into a room everyone's average net worth will go up even though their actual net worth didn't go up. If you had five people with 2 dollars and one guy with 14, the average would be (14 + 2 * 5) / 6 = 4. The average is four, yet everybody but one is below average. That relies on massive statistical outliers though, which you're not going to see when talking IQ. If you're talking about the median IQ, then yes, by definition 50% would be higher and 50% would be lower.

And by human choices I mean making choices that are essentially human nature. If your critical thinking skills haven't been trained and someone is purposely targeting what you already believe to be true for propaganda, I don't think that has anything to do with being smart or dumb. I also don't understand the importance of labeling it as such.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Swervo, you are really going thru extraordinary length to prove me wrong, but anyway, the IQ thing is not super critical to my main point so I’m just gonna drop it.

As for human decisions, yes, we definitely have human nature. If porn is available for us to look at, sure we would choose to look at it. It’ll also be easier for alcoholics to choose drugs over being sober. Gazillion years of evolutionary experiences of being afraid of creatures/enemies attacking us in the dark possibly contributed to us being more afraid to darker skin people now... our emotional part of the brain is probably making those human decisions.

However, humans have another part of the brain that can make more ‘rational’ decisions. Perhaps you’d like ‘rational’ more that ‘smart/dumb’?

If I make the choice to watch porn and jerk off all day, to drink or use drug too much, to think all black people are out to rob me... these would be the ‘human’ decisions I make, but are they ‘rational’ ones?

Can you really say that they’re irrelevant?

Trump tweeted something stupid and we can justify that as oh he just made a human decision. No biggie? The smart decision is to simply ignore them, but you can’t say such decisions are irrelevant.

It’s very possible our president is subjected under some propaganda, but that should excuse a persons improper behavior, right?

You really don’t believe in smart/dumb decisions? Or perhaps I’m misunderstanding/ misreading you again?

Importance of labeling decisions as such is to help train your critical thinking skill. Make smart decisions = brighter future. Make stupid decisions = you end up fucking others and yourself over.

Can you agree Trump made a lot of stupid decisions and they’re not irrelevant?

Of course I do agree this isn’t really that black and white just as Neanderthal thought I’m stupid for not voting Hillary whereas I thought he’d stupid for loving Hillary so much. I can agree in such case, we made human decisions because it’s not quite as obvious who’s smart or dumb... or certain matter may take time for us to find out. A lot of scientists probably though Einstein was stupid or crazy at first..., but anyway, in general, our decisions matter.

We need to make decisions that’s better for our future.

Hating nearly half of all Americans can’t possibly be good for America.

[FaultyMario]

I know that context plays a big role on individual choice. The short version is this: people have beliefs, people then get together and create what are called "arrangements" that are in line with their beliefs, people choose their individual actions according to the set of available options that is framed by those arrangements or else they could face sanctions by their peers.

What propaganda does is erode the arrangement system by introducing conflicting beliefs into the cultural context of people, so that people have justification to act in ways that are "anti-social".

The problem with propaganda is that is not a "naturally occurring" phenomenon in the discussion that groups of people regularly have and from which changes to the arrangements emanate. It is rather the result of one subgroup of people, a particularly powerful one, whose intention for disrupting the underlying beliefs is always to appropriate the benefits of the collective.

As an example, there used to be this conspiranoid theory that Agenda 21 was part of the New World Order, as a secret set of rules to impose a dark world government. In reality, Agenda 21 was the result of a discussion process that went on between many representatives of countries, in a pretty transparent way, that dealt with creating a new arrangement system at the world level for dealing with issues of pollution, equality and inclusion in cities and urban spaces.

And by human choices I mean making choices that are essentially human nature. If your critical thinking skills haven't been trained and someone is purposely targeting what you already believe to be true for propaganda, I don't think that has anything to do with being smart or dumb. I also don't understand the importance of labeling it as such.

The NWO propaganda had bigger effects on people from isolationist or rural contexts, regardless of whether they were "smart" or "dumb".

[FaultyMario]

Speaking of conspiranoids.

It strikes as odd that people from the US would think that the world has any influence on how you guys run your country. You, the country with the most overseas military stations, the country with the harshest policies for those who accept your foreign aid, the country with the most multinational corporations employing tens of thousands of people in foreign countries. It does not compute.

[Crazed_Insanity]

At least according to the Bible, it was propaganda from the serpent which cause the initial divide between man and God.

At least in theological concepts, God creates and build up, satan divides and destroys.

It is human nature for us to believe in satan’s tactic more in our fallen state in this fallen world.

Anyway, even if your not Christian, I’m pretty sure propaganda naturally occurred with the existence of humans. It’s just that social media made it even easier to spread.

[Tom Servo]

Swervo, you are really going thru extraordinary length to prove me wrong

I did? But this right here is why I wasn't bothering in the first place. You asked me what I thought and I told you, that's all I did.

[FaultyMario]

At least according to the Bible, [propaganda] [the serpent] [theological concepts] [social media]

I'm pretty sure that when the bible was compiled for the Hebrew tradition in the 4th or 3rd century BCE, or when it was officially arbitrated for the Christian churches in the Late Middle Ages, there were no governments or commercial organizations capable of using mass media to sway public opinion and beliefs.

[Crazed_Insanity]

I did? But this right here is why I wasn't bothering in the first place. You asked me what I thought and I told you, that's all I did.

I still can’t agree with on this most people have higher than average IQ point, but it’s distracting us from the main point so let’s just drop it.

You still believe smart/dumb choices or rational choices are irrelevant and we should label human choices as such?

Or we should just agree to disagree and drop that too?

[Crazed_Insanity]

I'm pretty sure that when the bible was compiled for the Hebrew tradition in the 4th or 3rd century BCE, or when it was officially arbitrated for the Christian churches in the Late Middle Ages, there were no governments or commercial organizations capable of using mass media to sway public opinion and beliefs.

Agreed.

However, In the garden of eden, there were no masses at all, just Adam and Eve. I still think serpent was meddling around using propaganda tactics to cause seeds of doubts and eventual separation between them and God.

Anyway, regardless of whether propaganda is naturally occurring or invented by Russians isn’t really important at this point. Safe to say we all think it’s wrong and not beneficial, at least to the ones being targeted.

How can we fight it?

I think we can fight it by making smarter more rational choices and not make stupid human emotional choices. How we distinguish the difference? Hopefully by making choices that will benefit our children?

Of course, nationalists believe building the wall will protect their children, can we help them see others ways that can benefit their future without just telling them that they can’t build that wall? Try to understand the other side and try to help bridge the divide rather than allowing the Russians to mess with us. If Forrest Gump can make smart choices, I’m sure we can too.

[Tom Servo]

Spoiler:

I still can’t agree with on this most people have higher than average IQ point, but it’s distracting us from the main point so let’s just drop it.

You still believe smart/dumb choices or rational choices are irrelevant and we should label human choices as such?

Or we should just agree to disagree and drop that too?

Wait is the "extraordinary length" the thing on averages vs. medians? I was responding to MR2 with that.