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Thread: Politics

  1. #10281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed_Insanity View Post
    why must sanders or biden stay away, assuming they're still alive and healthy?

    Anyway, moral of the story is that DNC shouldn't be 'backing' anybody! Just let the best man or woman win without meddling or giving the appearance of meddling.

    Last time, it looks to me that DNC backed Clinton unfairly. Even the liberal media backed Clinton unfairly by giving her more coverage and shutting out Sanders.

    Of course some claims that DNC was just weak and ineffective to be able to pull something like that off..., that's a possibility, but if that's true, that certainly made it easier for rich Hillary to storm in and take over the party.

    Whatever and however it happened, I do believe the best man was shafted.

    I think even Neanderthal would agree Sanders is the better candidate, but the better candidate didn't win the primary for one reason or another.

    Maybe democratic voters are just as stupid and the republican ones?

    Nah.

    It's the crappy system.
    Nope. NOPE.NOPE HELL NOPE!

    He has some good policy ideas but that's it. That's literally it. Sanders was my initial pick early in the 2016 primary. I've come to realise he is a thoroughly shitty candidate. He signed an agreement to raise funds for the DNC and down ticket races then never came through. Hillary did, but y'all complain about her.
    And, there's a preponderance of evidence to disprove any notion of him being cheated.

    But going against the Berners is like going against a 30 year campaign of right wing anti Hillary tripe. You're not going to get anywhere because they're just going to keep shouting louder and louder.
    Last edited by neanderthal; November 13th, 2017 at 05:55 PM.

  2. #10282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
    Warren, Franken... I've grown to like Franken, just a no BS kind of guy.
    Franken has really come out of left field and made a bold announcement of his capability. I don't know that he has further political ambitions though.
    Warren disappointed me by joining in the "bernie was cheated" nonsense before it was disproved. No thanks.

    I'd take Kamala Harris/ Kennedy/ Booker (drug company baggage) at this point. But a dark horse still has time to emerge ala Obama.

    O'Malley and Biden have male toxicity in their past.

    Sadly, Democratic politicians don't get through the media much. Then again, it's not like they stand out.

  3. #10283
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    Quote Originally Posted by novicius View Post
    While terrifying, does The Nuge really have the facilities in place to monetize the White House like Trump currently is doing?

    I think you'd just get 1/2 Donald Trump.
    With gerrymandering and voting restrictions he'd be worse; Donny has the (questionable) brains to at least be self serving while in the White House. Nugent would serve who exactly? NRA?

    Until Donny I thought Congress was the greater threat, but its the combined effect of a weak spineless Congress and a self dealing POTUS that is the greatest threat. Congress can still be a brake on the president. As long as the GOP aren't in charge.
    Last edited by neanderthal; November 13th, 2017 at 05:56 PM.

  4. #10284
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    Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post
    They've a quagmire to navigate extricating themselves out of the grip of the billionaires though.
    It's deeper than that, and I don't think there's any way to extricate themselves at this stage.

    Point 1. The policy playbook that they have clung to for the past 40 years is essentially one which doesn't work at all for anybody but the wealthy. Their policies are demonstrably bad, poorly thought out, and often based on nothing more than somebody's intuition, repeated 4,000 times by friendly think tanks. They simply don't do anything to make society better or life better for the vast majority of Americans. And it's obvious.

    Tax cuts for the wealthy and shrinking the scope of what Government does for people, busting up unions, cutting regulation, taking a laissez-faire approach to any and all markets - if we had never tried these things, perhaps they'd have some sort of point to make.

    But we've literally tried all of these things for 40 years and all it's gotten us is a diminished country where people have fewer opportunities, live worse lives, and where the income gap is as large or larger than it was the peak of the gilded age.

    The only people who believe that GOP economic policies are good are people who are either very wealthy or thoroughly bamboozled. So they haven't really been genuinely able to win on a grand scale with policy alone for ages.

    Point 2. They have relied on nativism, xenophobia, religious zealotry and racism for so long, and fed their voter base a steady diet of outrage for so long, that they cannot digest anything else. They are now prisoners to this base, having gerrymandered themselves into safe districts, they fear only primary challengers who can turn the outrage quotient up to 11. So of course, they back ever more radical social views. We are now at a point where a CHILD MOLESTER is likely to win a seat in the U.S. Senate because he presents views that the nativist, xenophobic, Christian fascist base feels good about.

    This base cares more about sticking it to people they don't like than any practical concern. The world could burn down around them and they wouldn't complain so long as the people they hate were burned first.

    This is entirely a phenomenon of their own making - they have encourage this for decades, and have used it so long and so often, it'd be impossible to fully dissociate from it.

    Point 3. Even this was not enough to maintain power. So they turned to gerrymandering. They have controlled most redistricting efforts from the last two censuses, and have created bizarrely configured but thoroughly safe districts. As if that weren't good enough, they've also sought in every way possible to suppress the votes of people who would turn out to vote against them, and to depress voting totals in general, which favors them.

    They could not win only on policy, so they turned to culture wars. They could not win on culture wars alone, so they decided to cheat.

    -----

    To come down from this would require a large number of republicans to look back on the last 30+ years of their lives and say "You know, I've been wrong about everything, and it's time I did the right thing, even if it means my career's over."

    They do not have the kind of character or courage that this would require - so you can bet they'll be going down with the ship.

  5. #10285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taimar View Post
    It's deeper than that, and I don't think there's any way to extricate themselves at this stage.

    Point 1. The policy playbook that they have clung to for the past 40 years is essentially one which doesn't work at all for anybody but the wealthy. Their policies are demonstrably bad, poorly thought out, and often based on nothing more than somebody's intuition, repeated 4,000 times by friendly think tanks. They simply don't do anything to make society better or life better for the vast majority of Americans. And it's obvious.

    Tax cuts for the wealthy and shrinking the scope of what Government does for people, busting up unions, cutting regulation, taking a laissez-faire approach to any and all markets - if we had never tried these things, perhaps they'd have some sort of point to make.

    But we've literally tried all of these things for 40 years and all it's gotten us is a diminished country where people have fewer opportunities, live worse lives, and where the income gap is as large or larger than it was the peak of the gilded age.

    The only people who believe that GOP economic policies are good are people who are either very wealthy or thoroughly bamboozled. So they haven't really been genuinely able to win on a grand scale with policy alone for ages.

    Point 2. They have relied on nativism, xenophobia, religious zealotry and racism for so long, and fed their voter base a steady diet of outrage for so long, that they cannot digest anything else. They are now prisoners to this base, having gerrymandered themselves into safe districts, they fear only primary challengers who can turn the outrage quotient up to 11. So of course, they back ever more radical social views. We are now at a point where a CHILD MOLESTER is likely to win a seat in the U.S. Senate because he presents views that the nativist, xenophobic, Christian fascist base feels good about.

    This base cares more about sticking it to people they don't like than any practical concern. The world could burn down around them and they wouldn't complain so long as the people they hate were burned first.

    This is entirely a phenomenon of their own making - they have encourage this for decades, and have used it so long and so often, it'd be impossible to fully dissociate from it.

    Point 3. Even this was not enough to maintain power. So they turned to gerrymandering. They have controlled most redistricting efforts from the last two censuses, and have created bizarrely configured but thoroughly safe districts. As if that weren't good enough, they've also sought in every way possible to suppress the votes of people who would turn out to vote against them, and to depress voting totals in general, which favors them.

    They could not win only on policy, so they turned to culture wars. They could not win on culture wars alone, so they decided to cheat.

    -----

    To come down from this would require a large number of republicans to look back on the last 30+ years of their lives and say "You know, I've been wrong about everything, and it's time I did the right thing, even if it means my career's over."

    They do not have the kind of character or courage that this would require - so you can bet they'll be going down with the ship.

    No argument from me.

    Problem is their base will go down with them. They vote consistently. And they believe anything.

  6. #10286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taimar View Post
    It's deeper than that, and I don't think there's any way to extricate themselves at this stage.

    Point 1. The policy playbook that they have clung to for the past 40 years is essentially one which doesn't work at all for anybody but the wealthy. Their policies are demonstrably bad, poorly thought out, and often based on nothing more than somebody's intuition, repeated 4,000 times by friendly think tanks. They simply don't do anything to make society better or life better for the vast majority of Americans. And it's obvious.

    Tax cuts for the wealthy and shrinking the scope of what Government does for people, busting up unions, cutting regulation, taking a laissez-faire approach to any and all markets - if we had never tried these things, perhaps they'd have some sort of point to make.

    But we've literally tried all of these things for 40 years and all it's gotten us is a diminished country where people have fewer opportunities, live worse lives, and where the income gap is as large or larger than it was the peak of the gilded age.

    The only people who believe that GOP economic policies are good are people who are either very wealthy or thoroughly bamboozled. So they haven't really been genuinely able to win on a grand scale with policy alone for ages.

    Point 2. They have relied on nativism, xenophobia, religious zealotry and racism for so long, and fed their voter base a steady diet of outrage for so long, that they cannot digest anything else. They are now prisoners to this base, having gerrymandered themselves into safe districts, they fear only primary challengers who can turn the outrage quotient up to 11. So of course, they back ever more radical social views. We are now at a point where a CHILD MOLESTER is likely to win a seat in the U.S. Senate because he presents views that the nativist, xenophobic, Christian fascist base feels good about.

    This base cares more about sticking it to people they don't like than any practical concern. The world could burn down around them and they wouldn't complain so long as the people they hate were burned first.

    This is entirely a phenomenon of their own making - they have encourage this for decades, and have used it so long and so often, it'd be impossible to fully dissociate from it.

    Point 3. Even this was not enough to maintain power. So they turned to gerrymandering. They have controlled most redistricting efforts from the last two censuses, and have created bizarrely configured but thoroughly safe districts. As if that weren't good enough, they've also sought in every way possible to suppress the votes of people who would turn out to vote against them, and to depress voting totals in general, which favors them.

    They could not win only on policy, so they turned to culture wars. They could not win on culture wars alone, so they decided to cheat.

    -----

    To come down from this would require a large number of republicans to look back on the last 30+ years of their lives and say "You know, I've been wrong about everything, and it's time I did the right thing, even if it means my career's over."

    They do not have the kind of character or courage that this would require - so you can bet they'll be going down with the ship.
    Very well written and 100% accurate IMO
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  7. #10287
    Senior Member Fogelhund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taimar View Post
    It's deeper than that, and I don't think there's any way to extricate themselves at this stage.

    Point 1. The policy playbook that they have clung to for the past 40 years is essentially one which doesn't work at all for anybody but the wealthy. Their policies are demonstrably bad, poorly thought out, and often based on nothing more than somebody's intuition, repeated 4,000 times by friendly think tanks. They simply don't do anything to make society better or life better for the vast majority of Americans. And it's obvious.

    Tax cuts for the wealthy and shrinking the scope of what Government does for people, busting up unions, cutting regulation, taking a laissez-faire approach to any and all markets - if we had never tried these things, perhaps they'd have some sort of point to make.

    But we've literally tried all of these things for 40 years and all it's gotten us is a diminished country where people have fewer opportunities, live worse lives, and where the income gap is as large or larger than it was the peak of the gilded age.

    The only people who believe that GOP economic policies are good are people who are either very wealthy or thoroughly bamboozled. So they haven't really been genuinely able to win on a grand scale with policy alone for ages.

    Point 2. They have relied on nativism, xenophobia, religious zealotry and racism for so long, and fed their voter base a steady diet of outrage for so long, that they cannot digest anything else. They are now prisoners to this base, having gerrymandered themselves into safe districts, they fear only primary challengers who can turn the outrage quotient up to 11. So of course, they back ever more radical social views. We are now at a point where a CHILD MOLESTER is likely to win a seat in the U.S. Senate because he presents views that the nativist, xenophobic, Christian fascist base feels good about.

    This base cares more about sticking it to people they don't like than any practical concern. The world could burn down around them and they wouldn't complain so long as the people they hate were burned first.

    This is entirely a phenomenon of their own making - they have encourage this for decades, and have used it so long and so often, it'd be impossible to fully dissociate from it.

    Point 3. Even this was not enough to maintain power. So they turned to gerrymandering. They have controlled most redistricting efforts from the last two censuses, and have created bizarrely configured but thoroughly safe districts. As if that weren't good enough, they've also sought in every way possible to suppress the votes of people who would turn out to vote against them, and to depress voting totals in general, which favors them.

    They could not win only on policy, so they turned to culture wars. They could not win on culture wars alone, so they decided to cheat.

    -----

    To come down from this would require a large number of republicans to look back on the last 30+ years of their lives and say "You know, I've been wrong about everything, and it's time I did the right thing, even if it means my career's over."

    They do not have the kind of character or courage that this would require - so you can bet they'll be going down with the ship.
    I think you've articulated much of the issues very well, though I feel as if you've missed one factor, or I just missed it, though I will admit that you could classify it under outrage. That is simply the selling of fear. There has long been the usage of fear, to drive policy and control the public. Fear of the Commies, to fund wars, that really had nothing to do with communism. Fear of that guy with nukes... there never were nukes, nor were there issues in many of the other military actions, but they served other commercial purposes, control of oil, etc... Fear of each other, fear of the government, sell guns, divide and conquer, fear of everyone who isn't us...

    America the Brave, was sold out a long time ago, to America the Fearful.
    Last edited by Fogelhund; November 14th, 2017 at 07:00 AM.

  8. #10288
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    Bravo, Alex

  9. #10289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
    I think you've articulated much of the issues very well, though I feel as if you've missed one factor, or I just missed it, though I will admit that you could classify it under outrage. That is simply the selling of fear. There has long been the usage of fear, to drive policy and control the public. Fear of the Commies, to fund wars, that really had nothing to do with communism. Fear of that guy with nukes... there never were nukes, nor were there issues in many of the other military actions, but they served other commercial purposes, control of oil, etc... Fear of each other, fear of the government, sell guns, divide and conquer, fear of everyone who isn't us...

    America the Brave, was sold out a long time ago, to America the Fearful.
    Agreed with this as well. The irony is how many right-wing candidates ran on the "you can't trust the government, so vote for me" campaigns. Now they are "the government", can right wingers still not trust them? So instead, they make this pretzel logic where if anyone disagrees with the Trump (or whoever's) it's they're traitors to whatever right wing cause they have made up in their heads.

    As already briefly mentioned, I fully believe that if one-by-one the other GOP members stood against Trump & co. many would be like "get rid of that swamp thing/RINO/whatever" until only Trump and his very small amount of remaining cohorts are left. Maybe we can convince Trump to become dictator........of his own island in the middle of the pacific and he can take his supporters with him, then he can dictate all he wants!!
    ║]=(86)=[║

  10. #10290
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    Alex for President!

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