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Thread: Politics

  1. #1021
    Member Member 21Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR2 Fan View Post
    Reagan?
    Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post
    St Reagan himself.
    Yup.

  2. #1022
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesameguy View Post
    A *great* politician would have been able to break through a, as you put it, non-functioning Congress. Obama's big failure was his inability to get the other two branches of government on his team. The cop-out is to say that was impossible. The simple fact is that he didn't do it. Suggesting anything more is guessing. What this country has sorely needed for nearly a century is a leader - an individual's whose wisdom and wit can transcend partisan politics either by rallying politicians or rallying the populace to the point the politicians have no choice. Obama is a smart guy and likely legitimately has the right answers, but he's no more a leader than Bush was. That is his failing - and it's a failing typical of smart people. An inability to convince people of "the right answers" because, in the mind of a smart person, the answers are self-evident and don't need explanation. A smart guy who can't convince people to follow him is no better than a dumb guy who can lead a country in the wrong direction.
    I see what you mean and I agree to a point. In the beginning, I think he did try to compromise. Look at what the ACA turned into. A mere shadow of what it was initially intended. And even though a lot of it is due compromise and are Republican ideas (which they ironically want to overturn)... it did get done. And it's better than what we had before.

    But, when they go on record stating that they are not going to work with you, and cry, kick and scream, when they don't get 100% of their way, how far can you really compromise?

    Sure, he wasn't able to convince them to work with him. But, I don't think that would ever have happened with this congress, honestly. They aren't interested in compromise. They want everything their way or nothing. That's why they shut down the government.

  3. #1023
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    Anyway, I held Obama to a higher standard. I'm sure other than the crazy republican extremists, nearly everyone recognizes that he's far better than W and US congress is fucked up. No argument there. Nobody's trying to pin all of America's problems onto Obama here.

    But enough of blaming the other side. It's obvious we ain't never getting rid of the other side unless we have another civil war... heck, even a civil war won't guarantee you that we'll finally split up...

    Just by examining the president alone, who the fuck cares about ACA? Even if it Obama completely got his version passed... so what if everyone got affordable and awesome health insurance if some capitalistic pigs decided fuck with the system and short circuit the entire economy again? When we're completely financially crippled... and I'm pretty sure tax payers won't be able to pick up the bill again and again... So what if we have affordable healthcare? Which is more important here?

    Endorsing gay marriage rights is also very nice, but when you are fucking with people's basic civil/human rights with drones and secret wiretapping, you guys are happy with that? Yeah, now gays can marry, but we'll continue on with W's patriot act and God knows what else behind the classified doors... if it weren't for Edward Snowden.

    Seriously, what's more important here?

    Yes, compared to the Republicans, I think Obama is doing a much better job; however, I'm not comparing him to the fucked up Republicans here.

    I'm comparing his job performance to his campaign promises. If you guys still think I'm stupid and don't even know there are 3 branches of the government... so be it.

    His job performance really has nothing to do with my stupidity, american voter's stupidity, congressional dysfunctionality nor W's retardedness. He had a tough job that's for sure. He asked us for it, we gave it to him... in the end, I just don't think he delivered on his promises. Yeah, it's the republican's fault. It's the stupid American's fault for voting in such a lame congress, but Obama's at fault too. His approval rating or popularity is declining universally year after year. It's not all due to the Republicans.

    Anyway, it's not like he's up for another reelection, if you die hard fans wish to continue your support, go right ahead.

    If he IS allow to run again..., chances are I probably will prefer him over the whatever Republicans have to offer. However, I probably just will choose to not vote. Enough of the lesser of the 2 evil crap.

  4. #1024
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    To switch topic a bit..., Taiwan Taipei's mayoral race has an interesting candidate. A prestigious doctor, entered the race with grass root support. Very similar to Obama's beginning, except that he's no politician... furthermore, he entered as an independent. Taiwan's 2 parties are extremely polarized just like in the US. The guy is determined to stay out of that kind of politics and want to focus on fixing the city's problems. He chose not to plaster walls or TV programming with political ads. (Not just negative ads, but no ads!) He himself later on admit that such tactic was actually because his campaign doesn't have that much money! But anyway, what's truly amazing was that later on when his campaign gained traction, he actually stopped fundraising... saying he has enough money! NO MORE donations!

    I was like... WOW!

    I hope the guy wins and really bring about change in Taiwan.

    I wish someone like that can emerge in the US.

  5. #1025
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    To a large degree that's how we got the Governator. And what ended up happening is his "I don't need your support or your money" translated directly into his inability to do anything. When you have One Guy popping up amidst an army of entrenched assholes his only two options are make the army look bad, or become an asshole himself. It's pretty obvious what happens most of the time.

  6. #1026
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    Can't disagree with you there.

    However, a few things this Taiwanese guy has over Arnold is that he's not a rich celebrity. He's not in it for fame. He's famous in his field but it's obvious he doesn't work for fame nor money. Unlike a Hollywood star who even end up marrying someone famous. He's also not only about 'I don't need your money', I think his motto is he doesn't like money! He himself has a modest living eventhough both he and his wife are doctors. Last but not least, remember Arnold came in as a 'Republican'? Probably not the most brilliant idea in such a liberal state. At least Ronald Reagan is a good actor. I don't think the same can be said for Arnold!

    Furthermore, this guy has graduated as #1 student in the nation's #1 school throughout his student career and even in his field, he's also top doctor in Asia and perhaps even from a global perspective. So he definitely has the brain power and the dedication needed to get whatever job done and done well.

    He also aim to only be a 1 term mayor. He said the only way to do the right things is to never worry about re-election.

    Anyway, he might win the election, but he might also disappoint like the Governator and Obama... hope not. We'll see. The guy has brain, not after fame nor money, not playing partisan politics, strong integrity(some govenment officials and news media have attempted some corruption charges to smear his reputation, but all efforts so far has only proven how amazingly uncorruptible he had been as a reputable doctor!) So fingers crossed.
    Last edited by Crazed_Insanity; November 13th, 2014 at 02:32 PM.

  7. #1027
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesameguy View Post
    A *great* politician would have been able to break through a, as you put it, non-functioning Congress. Obama's big failure was his inability to get the other two branches of government on his team. The cop-out is to say that was impossible. The simple fact is that he didn't do it. Suggesting anything more is guessing. What this country has sorely needed for nearly a century is a leader - an individual's whose wisdom and wit can transcend partisan politics either by rallying politicians or rallying the populace to the point the politicians have no choice. Obama is a smart guy and likely legitimately has the right answers, but he's no more a leader than Bush was. That is his failing - and it's a failing typical of smart people. An inability to convince people of "the right answers" because, in the mind of a smart person, the answers are self-evident and don't need explanation. A smart guy who can't convince people to follow him is no better than a dumb guy who can lead a country in the wrong direction.
    You're right about everything except,.... the Republicans set out to oppose him at every step. Even when they looked foolish, childish, stupid, obtuse, they locked arms and all said the same thing, voted the same way, etc. There's no getting around that, no matter how good you are.

    And that's the point really, that the opposition to Obama is so much greater than the man, than the Presidency, than... whatever, that saying "he should have just figure it out," is analogous to a copout to what he's achieved despite that opposition. We aren't talking about minor setbacks or slight hindrances, but vigorous opposition.

    Imagine you're trying to rebuild your transmission and the person who's supposed to be building it with you keeps "misplacing" tools and parts and saying you've got a phone call on the house phone etc. These guys have vigorously opposed and done very little compromising. There's a reason why Obama's "least favourable rating" is four times greater than theirs.

  8. #1028
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21Kid View Post
    I see what you mean and I agree to a point. In the beginning, I think he did try to compromise. Look at what the ACA turned into. A mere shadow of what it was initially intended. And even though a lot of it is due compromise and are Republican ideas (which they ironically want to overturn)... it did get done. And it's better than what we had before.

    But, when they go on record stating that they are not going to work with you, and cry, kick and scream, when they don't get 100% of their way, how far can you really compromise?

    Sure, he wasn't able to convince them to work with him. But, I don't think that would ever have happened with this congress, honestly. They aren't interested in compromise. They want everything their way or nothing. That's why they shut down the government.
    Zactly.

    And in the meantime they've smeared him at every opportunity and repeated their smears so often and so widely that it's accepted to think of this as a failed presidency. They've repeatedly said "worst President ever" so much that its sunk into the collective conscience and people who don't follow politics can be caught saying it. When challenged, such people can't even clearly state what about his presidency is so bad.

  9. #1029
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    Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post
    There's a reason why Obama's "least favourable rating" is four times greater than theirs.
    They don't care. They can just wait it out until the next president.

  10. #1030
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    Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post
    Zactly.

    And in the meantime they've smeared him at every opportunity and repeated their smears so often and so widely that it's accepted to think of this as a failed presidency.
    Bullshit.

    As I said before, BO came to power with a huge democratic bonus (you can see the charts titled Presidential success for reference) the fact that it diminished is only natural, by most studies a political honeymoon lasts eighteen months on average. the fact that his batting average fell from .850 to .200 speaks of the inability of his own team. Put it another way, a Star Slugger playing for team suck.

    And secondly Mo', stop believing the media discourse. The WORST.PRESIDENT.EVER. diatribes will die down now that we're past the elections, after all it was all part of the political game. You complain that incumbents with 10% approval get 90% reelection success... then those guys can play the game. Either they're excellent salesmen or the system is so rigged that only the purest paladins of civility can oust them in an election. Watch The Young Turks video above, it explains the extent of polarization and the size of the polarized masses. 80% percent of americans are not crazy teapartylunatics or gaylovincomnists. But averageness does not make for entertaining news entertainment.
    acket.

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