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Thread: Politics

  1. #10471
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    Hey, from that article, just found out about this John Delaney character who has already signed up to run for president in 2020!

    I kinda like this guy. Seems like a sensible moderate guy who may be able to reach out to both sides..., but then again, if our political polarization continue to worsen, folks on the right may just hate that he's a democrat and folks on the left may hate that he actually still attends church...

    I do think Bernie will probably be too old. Plus, I think his message was perfect during the last election, but may no longer be that relevant 4 years later post Trump's messy era...

    Anyway, all eyes on this Roy Moore election... I pray that Alabamans will receive enough 'moral values' from Jesus... and after so many heads that rolled because of sexual allegations, the ONE that really needs to roll is Trump's! There may still be some hope..., fingers crossed.

  2. #10472
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    So, I know a lot of democrats, and I'm an atheist myself, and I don't know anyone who would not vote for someone because they go to church. I mean, then we wouldn't have voted for Obama, or for Hillary, as they also both attend church. I'm not sure how often, and I don't really care.

    On the other hand, there are people about to vote for an alleged (but in my mind the allegations are pretty well supported) pedophile because they don't want a democrat.

    I might be wrong. I may be viewing this from a skewed angle and there aren't people on the right out there that would just never vote for someone on the left, even if that means voting for someone who's trying to bang 14 year olds. Maybe there are people on the left who won't vote for someone because they go to church.

    But much like this whole "Merry Christmas" thing, it feels to me like there's this belief amongst the right who immerse themselves in right-wing media (Fox News, Breitbart, Limbaugh, whatever) that we live in a constant, perpetual state of outrage over anybody going to church or saying Merry Christmas. I've had people accuse me of "faux outrage" (which I find that most of those people don't actually understand what "faux" means - they are inferring that I am outraged over something that doesn't deserve outrage, rather than pretending to be outraged for some nefarious agenda), and we know that there are people on the right celebrating Trump claiming to have brought back "Merry Christmas", despite tons of examples of Obama saying that very phrase.

    Billi - where do you get this thing that people on the left might hate people who attend church? I can't think of many elected officials of the democratic party that aren't christian. There isn't a single president who hasn't been. Where did that come from? Given polling that says that basically atheists and muslims are duking it out for the two groups least likely to be trusted in an elected position, can you point me to any actual evidence that this is a widespread problem on the left?

  3. #10473
    Senior Member G'day Mate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    There isn't a single president who hasn't been (Christian).
    Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln weren't, and in all likelihood a few others were secret athiests

  4. #10474
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    Huh, TIL. Still, I think it's fair to say that both of them were raised Christian and ended up at least falling under the "believing in (a) god, if not organized religion" camp my wife falls under. Nonetheless, I stand corrected.

    EDIT: also, I might add that one of those two got assassinated. Just sayin'.
    Last edited by Tom Servo; December 11th, 2017 at 07:19 PM.

  5. #10475
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    I think most people on the left don't give a shit whether people go to church or not. After all, surely that's the point of being a Liberal. Just don't ram shit down their throats.

  6. #10476
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    That's certainly my take. I'm curious as to what made Billi think that that's a point of contention.

  7. #10477
    Senior Member G'day Mate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Huh, TIL. Still, I think it's fair to say that both of them were raised Christian and ended up at least falling under the "believing in (a) god, if not organized religion" camp my wife falls under. Nonetheless, I stand corrected.

    EDIT: also, I might add that one of those two got assassinated. Just sayin'.
    I don't know much about them, only that I remember hearing Christopher Hitchens use them as examples. I wonder if I can dig it up ...

  8. #10478
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    A large portion of the founding fathers were deists. Deism in general was pretty popular in America's early history--a general belief in some sort of "God" who created everything, but is unknowable and uncaring about anything humans do. Basically they shunned organized religion, Catholicism mostly. Jefferson in particular wrote extensively about following the teachings of Jesus, and ONLY Jesus, and discarding all the other dogmatic crap and churchgoing.

    I don't know about Lincoln's faith, but that would interesting to hear about.

    I think a better argument to make is that, since scientific rationality began to strongly QUESTION religion, politicians have had to identify as Christian to get anywhere in public office, because old, religious, fear-mongering white people are the biggest voting majority.

  9. #10479
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    Unsurprisingly, there's a wiki devoted to that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religi...braham_Lincoln

    The religious views of Abraham Lincoln are a matter of interest among scholars and the public. Lincoln grew up in a highly religious Baptist family. He never joined any Church, and was a skeptic as a young man and sometimes ridiculed revivalists. He frequently referred to God and had a deep knowledge of the Bible, often quoting it. Lincoln attended Protestant church services with his wife and children, and after two of them died he became more intensely concerned with religion.[1]
    Although Lincoln never made an unambiguous public profession of Christian belief, several people who knew him personally, such as Chaplain of the Senate Phineas Gurley and Mary Todd Lincoln, claimed that he believed in Christ in the religious sense.[2][3][4] However, close friends who had known Lincoln for years, such as Ward Hill Lamon and William Herndon, rejected the idea that he was a believing Christian.[5] During his 1846 run for the House of Representatives, in order to dispel accusations concerning his religious beliefs, Lincoln issued a handbill stating that he had "never denied the truth of the Scriptures".[6] He seemed to believe in an all-powerful God, who shaped events and, by 1865, was expressing those beliefs in major speeches.[7]

  10. #10480
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    I'm a deist, have been since high school, so about 15 years now.

    It's as far as science can take us and I'm not ruling out the existence of a possible god just for the sake of it. Basically, *something* created the matter for the Big Bang, everything else just happened without divine intervention.

    To me.

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