Politics

[FaultyMario]

And with that in my mind, I think that rural America was fundamental to the economic impulse needed for the industrialization of the whole United States, but it is certainly not its best element nowadays, the founding fathers were from slave-owning agricultural elites, so in that time frame, the rural push was a great thing for society.

The problem with Trumpism is that by not acknowledging the fact that the United States *has always been* a multicultural and multiethnic society, and by giving an unjustified importance to an idealized version of "the good old days" of white protestantism, he undermines the very essence of America's greatness, its diversity.

[George]

I really do suggest everyone read Howard Zinn's "A Peoples History Of The United States."

I just placed a hold at the library for the audiobook "A People's History Of The United States Highlights From The Twentieth Century" - which may be an abridged version of the original or a supplementary edition. I may check other libraries in surrounding counties for the original but I don't have those library cards with me at the moment to log into their websites. There are four holds ahead of me, so it may be a while before I get my hands on it.

I know it's a terrible thing to answer a question with another question. But I'd go back to a previous topic on this same thread, and ask back... Which of the nine nations of America are you referring to when you say great?

Well, I was thinking more of its significance for humankind, rather than this group vs. that group.

[Crazed_Insanity]

The problem with Trumpism is that by not acknowledging the fact that the United States *has always been* a multicultural and multiethnic society, and by giving an unjustified importance to an idealized version of "the good old days" of white protestantism, he undermines the very essence of America's greatness, its diversity.

Can’t disagree with that.

Still, the main fuel for trumpism is probably because that white men today are now under more attack than ever before.

Personally I prefer Dr. king’s or Rosa park’s version of the civil rights movement... fighting for your rights without putting anyone down. Not asking to take away from white men to give away to black men..., but simply asking for equal opportunity to be able to stand where white people could stand.

Average white men are also taking a toll financially with mounting job losses. Until we address that, trump just might be able to misdirected blames on illegal immigrants for 4 more years... Hitler was able to take advantage of Germany's economic hit too.

Best way to defeat Hitler probably wasn't thru bullets and missiles, but by helping regular German citizens to get back on their feet rather than sanctioning them for their earlier misdeeds.

[Crazed_Insanity]

Well, I was thinking more of its significance for humankind, rather than this group vs. that group.

Yes.

Of course black slaves and Indians will think America sucks. Of course patriotic white nationalist will think USA is the fucking greatest thing since sliced bread.

That’s why I mentioned that we need to put some distance between us and the US when answering this question. From an outsider’s perspective without any personal agenda.

Are human beings better because of the existence of this nation or worse off? If USA isn’t that great, what are other greater nations out there? Or we just can’t ever make a decision because it’s just too politically incorrect that it’s just easier to say that we all just suck? Okay, maybe I’m going off of my MO again... we’re all just grey... nobody sucks nobody great!?

[neanderthal]

Spoiler:

Can’t disagree with that.

Still, the main fuel for trumpism is probably because that white men today are now under more attack more than ever before.

Personally I prefer Dr. king’s or Rosa park’s version of the civil rights movement... fighting for your rights without putting anyone down.

Average white men are also taking a toll financially with mounting job losses. Until we address that, trump just might be able to misdirected blames on illegal immigrants for 4 more years...

You, AGAIN, with this shit. Who, WHO is attacking white men? Who? Is it an individual? Is it a group? Is it a country? Is it an alien invading force? Is it a human? An animal? A thing?

No one is attacking white men.

What is happening is that white supremacy and patriarchy are being called out, anywhere and everywhere, and the conservatives have decided that being asked to consider the agency of others before you ... hug them is an "attack" on white men. Literally, their response to the "me too" movement was that it was an attack on men. (Especially when Kavanaugh was being vetted.) Yet Me Too was raising awareness of scummy behaviour, most often by men, and not always men in positions of power, towards women. That's not an attack on men.


"When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." Can't be bothered to find out who said it. It's 2019; google is free. Google for yourself if you want to know.

"Average white men are taking a toll financially with mounting job losses."

The fuck is that supposed to even mean? It's ok when other groups take a financial toll and lose their jobs? (But it's not when it happens to white men?) Because that's what has ALWAYS happened in the past. Minorities and the lower economic classes always felt the brunt of any depression/ recession. And a lot of minorities are in the lower economic classes.
Who got left behind in the last recession. All the people from all those factories and plants that got closed. All the people who's mortgage skyrocketed. (Many many black people who qualified for conventional home loans were given variable ones instead. That didn't happen so much with whites, all else being equal.) Etc.

You're an aero engineer, so you're supposed to be smart, but honestly, judging strictly from what you post you're dumb as fuck.

[neanderthal]

https://jezebel.com/the-lie-of-metoo...far-1837370047

[Crazed_Insanity]

There are certainly a lot of privileged white men, but certainly not all white men are privileged, right?

In this day and age, any minority group can have pride, except for white folks, right?

I do have my issues with the Me Too movement. Bring awareness is great. Appalling behaviors definitely need to be stopped, but often times I began to feel such movement is going out of control. Like I said earlier, if we found out Einstein sexually harassed his assistant, sizeable liberal population just might stop believing E=MC^2.... or at least find theory of relativity repulsive and start boycotting it.

As for economic losses, no group enjoys that. When such security is threatened, people do tend to behave more irrationally. Not excusing Trump supporters for their 'stupid' decisions, but it is the human thing to do that when shit hits the fan, you like to find somebody else to blame 1st. Illegal immigrants are easy targets.

Clearly building a wall is not going to bring their coal mine, steel, manufacturing jobs back.

[MR2 Fan]

You, AGAIN, with this shit. Who, WHO is attacking white men? Who? Is it an individual? Is it a group? Is it a country? Is it an alien invading force? Is it a human? An animal? A thing?

No one is attacking white men.

What is happening is that white supremacy and patriarchy are being called out, anywhere and everywhere, and the conservatives have decided that being asked to consider the agency of others before you ... hug them is an "attack" on white men. Literally, their response to the "me too" movement was that it was an attack on men. (Especially when Kavanaugh was being vetted.) Yet Me Too was raising awareness of scummy behaviour, most often by men, and not always men in positions of power, towards women. That's not an attack on men.


"When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." Can't be bothered to find out who said it. It's 2019; google is free. Google for yourself if you want to know.

The fuck is that supposed to even mean? It's ok when other groups take a financial toll and lose their jobs? (But it's not when it happens to white men?) Because that's what has ALWAYS happened in the past. Minorities and the lower economic classes always felt the brunt of any depression/ recession. And a lot of minorities are in the lower economic classes.
Who got left behind in the last recession. All the people from all those factories and plants that got closed. All the people who's mortgage skyrocketed. (Many many black people who qualified for conventional home loans were given variable ones instead. That didn't happen so much with whites, all else being equal.) Etc.

You're an aero engineer, so you're supposed to be smart, but honestly, judging strictly from what you post you're dumb as fuck.

white men aren't being attacked. The problem is they're feeling the economic downturn and instead of blaming politicians and large corporations who aren't helping the problem, they're being told by media outlets that there's an immigrant invasion that are taking their jobs, or lower income minorities mooching off of government handouts....whatever makes them blame brown people instead of who's really at fault.

[JoshInKC]

There are certainly a lot of privileged white men, but certainly not all white men are privileged, right?

Yeah, we white men are all privileged in the US. It might not always be obvious, and there are situations in which that privilege might be reduced, but it never goes away.
That's how the system is designed to work.

[FaultyMario]

I prefer [...] Rosa park’s version of the civil rights movement... fighting for your rights without putting anyone down.

“I wanted to see [grandfather] kill a Ku-Kluxer”

The love of her life was a Scottsboro Boy, FFS!